Why were gypsies never able to fully integrate in the Balkans?
Posted by foolishandnonsense@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 385 comments
This photo is of a gypsy family in Spokane Washington in the 1970s. In the USA Gypsies were known to own paving and roofing companies in the Mid West and Pacific Coast. Seems like they were doing very well for themselves in the Americas compared to their cousins in Europe. These people are proof that gypsies could in fact be assimilated by their own will. Why such a huge difference in Europe?
RestepcaMahAutoritha@reddit
Its a mixture of things. It includes fascism, communism and ultra patriotism which was generally bad for any minority. This pushed people to the side, second class citizens, where it was difficult to find proper employment or even use social services for those in need.
This created a self sustainable society and culture, where they couldn't and didn't depend on no one else but themselves. Obviously day- to -day racism created a self fulfilling prophecy, a catch 22, where people did bad because they were expected to do bad.
Anyway, it's a complicated issue, somewhat similar to what's happening in America's ghettos. Outcast, discrimination, racism, poverty, self-reliance, etc.
CapitalScarcity5573@reddit
The thing is they are racist against anyone that's not gypsi as well....
RestepcaMahAutoritha@reddit
Sorry but I don't understand your point. If you were being mistreated by others, wouldn't you also be racist, or at least spiteful?
CapitalScarcity5573@reddit
So they are allowed to treat others just like they are treated but I, because I am white and a majority, am not allowed to do the same to them?
RestepcaMahAutoritha@reddit
Who's allowed to do what? What exactly are they doing? Again, youre not making sense!
Are they discriminating you? Do they not allow you to join their șatră? Are they denying you palm readings because of your "race"?
CapitalScarcity5573@reddit
Yes they are discriminating against me and you seem to find that justified..
reverber@reddit
Institutional racism is a bitch.
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
Jews were pushed aside for centuries and became highly literate. Our pals got pushed aside and... oh yeah.
I don't think the situation is similar to American ghettos at all. If you're black and American, what are you going to do? Put on paint before you go outside? There's nothing you can do. Like you could be the smartest, most polite black person, and if you happen to cross paths with a racist, you'll still have a bad time.
Compare that to these guys who, if they really wanted to, could absolutely just blend in and pass. Thy don't because they refuse to. And I know people complain about the stealing, but to me that's not even the issue. Many of them smell bad. Like they reek. They're unwashed. It's disgusting. These are people with barely self-respect towards themselves, let alone others.
Like there are people out there who are technically "gypsies" and guess what, you'd never know. Because they just don't associate with people like that, are cleanly and law-abiding. And that's all it takes. No one's asking them to gain 30 IQ points on average. Just to wash, get some taste, and not mess with others.
Most_Professional857@reddit
In Romania they have a party (AUR- which translates to Gold) and became fascisct.
Hardstyle_Shuffle@reddit
That's not a gyp party lmao, barely.
reverber@reddit
Is that the only fascist party in Romania?
Most_Professional857@reddit
Yep. Big fans of maga(https://newrepublic.com/post/205498/republicans-greenland-cake-us-flag )
Frank_cat@reddit
In Greece they have it easy.
No matter what they do, they face no consequences.
fraterperturabo@reddit
same in Bosnia/Serbia, absolutely the same
Lugia_the_guardian@reddit
Hungary has the same.
No_Zucchini7810@reddit
Romania same
Plastic_Ad_2424@reddit
Slovenia, same. Last year they murdered a guy that came to a club after his son called him that he has problems with .... and they just punched him with a boxer to the back of the head. Whole country rose up and protested. The goverment did put out some bullshit law that really had no effect
Adventurous-Cat-7567@reddit
boxer as in brass knuckles?
RandomGuy1525@reddit
Holy shit thats horrible.
Plastic_Ad_2424@reddit
Yeah it is. But most of the problems I have seen are from gipsyes that live in larger "villages". But if they are spread out, like where I live, and maybe one family lives in one spot (still 3 houses big) there is no problem. If we run in then in stores we greet each other and it is really nice. Only the south region (Novo Mesto, Kočevje area) there are a ton of problems
justkataa@reddit
What do you mean? Prisons are full with gypsy people 🤷🏼♀️
Leather-Substance-39@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
tokalper@reddit
Same in turkey, they find every single god damned government subsidies and use that to the fullest extent to never work more then abso fucking lutely needed.
kikiriki_miki@reddit
Never thought there are gypsies in Turkiye. It makes sense, but never occurred to me. What is the % ?
eleutheromaniann@reddit
WHAT
Orbit1883@reddit
Ok thats total Numbers would be intresting to see as percentage of the Population
Keno112@reddit
What secret strategy do the baltic countries have
tokalper@reddit
Yea there are too much of everything in turkey. Turkey is hard to understand because of this for most people.
draggedagainstmywill@reddit
In Turkey, I literally had to go to a elementary school located in a gypsy populated area. One time a gypsy girl (from my class) wanted to date with me. I said no. Her friends literally forced me to date with her. Then I accepted it, and broke up with with her after a week or two. Her brothers came to beat me for that reason.
OkEfficiency9889@reddit
Username checks out
Eternal_JC_Denton@reddit
And they have 7 fucking brothers they always have 7 fucking brothers
tokalper@reddit
Donr know percentage but its very common in balkan / thrace regions. Maybe 4-5% across Turkey turkey is very bug and populous but if you consider the only thrace and balkan regions it feels like 30%
ComprehensiveAd1855@reddit
Interestingly, that exact same post could apply to Turks in the Netherlands
tokalper@reddit
Its a minority thing than
ThatFox331@reddit
Yes, they are just clever. 😄
arschgeige99@reddit
Doing crime and being a nuisance does not make you clever.
ThatFox331@reddit
You are just sad that you cannot find the way, most of them are good people, they are just exploiting broken systems. They just don't wear a tie.
You are most proably in middle of this two worlds. Trying but not too hard...
So who is looser here ?
Milicevic87@reddit
If everyone is exploiting the system, then the country becomes a shithole til there is nothing more left to exploit. Working people want to build something for future generations.
zkrooky@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
arschgeige99@reddit
Sure they are robin hood. Don‘t tell me what they are dude when you vaven‘t lived with them. Of course there are few good people between them I grew up with them. It’s just the ones that escaped their caste system, arranged marriages, deranged family dynamics, instilled culture of no work, they are the actual smart ones.
I‘m not sad, I‘m mad people are just staring at them when they are being a nuisance to people, I‘m mad the police will leave them alone when they don‘t pay for the bus/merro fare, I‘m mad they get away with not paying taxes and traffic fines…. If you‘re okay with all of these things and more and call them smart for it you‘re not made for this world mate, go live off grid if you want it and don‘t want to bother the rest of us. Fucking leeches
alkorisno@reddit
What are you talking about? Djilas bulldozed their neibrhood to build bulidimgs for tycoon Miskovic, they put barbed wires around their neirbourhood. They are punished for nothing but being poor
Lakithelink@reddit
Who ever faces any consequences when they do anything in Serbia?
ButterflyBadger3@reddit
Croatia too.
alkorisno@reddit
Tell me you are a nazi without saying you are a nazi
Frank_cat@reddit
What led you to that conclusion?
Prior-Flamingo-1378@reddit
That’s of course not the case. I have no idea why you’d think laws are applied differently to them.
How many Roma kids have been executed by Greek cops the last few years? I recall three.
Frank_cat@reddit
Did I say that " laws are applied differently to them"?
Show it to me please.
If you dont understand something, dont assume.
Ask.
Ok-Ring8800@reddit
I made a comment on the gypsy situation here in Greece. No insults or slurs. Just stated facts and I received a warning from Reddit saying they will delete my account for hate speech. Apparently it’s everywhere.
Prior-Flamingo-1378@reddit
I’m don’t know what your comment was but if the facts you refer have something to do with laws being applied differently for gipsies then that’s nonsense.
Atactos@reddit
Happen to me the same but with the 🧃
RareLeather00@reddit
Reddit mods are woke cunts, I'm afraid.
vidolch@reddit
The way I see it, in Bulgaria, you have no benefits of integrating them because the less educated and knowledgeable they are, the easier you can buy their votes. Their traditions of marrying young and then the mother of the man basically gatekeeping the bride until she has her own bride to gatekeep is kinda closed circle.
SV_SV_SV@reddit
Some dynamic applied in Orban's Hungary, keep them in the dirt, and get the votes for a bag of potatoes.
MarkMew@reddit
And I assume if somebody wants some consequences they're racist?
nanithefucketh@reddit
Americans jump at Europeans for saying stuff like that but if they acted like this over there they'd understand lol
artifexor@reddit
You know, "most miért, mert cigány vagyok?" card.
MarkMew@reddit
The syntax is "most azír mer én cigány vagyok" where I'm from buy yea I know it lol.
My other favourite line is "a magyar is lop".
Afraid-Leg-174@reddit
So out of curiosity how do you feel as a Hungarian that the old slur for Hungarians in the United States became a term in the U.S. for being attractive later on?
MarkMew@reddit
You mean hunk, hunky? I find it funny
Afraid-Leg-174@reddit
Yep that’s the one, when I was younger I thought the old lady down the street was just a pedophile but turns out she was just racist and hated my grandparents (grandpa moved to a US from Tolna and grandma from Piliscsaba)
Ok-Ring8800@reddit
Exactly:
grympy@reddit
So, like in Bulgaria?
Surfer_Rick@reddit
Bulgaria is a class of its own
Dependent_Guard903@reddit
Corrupt goverments and all....
castiele_rose@reddit
Same in Croatia... Ofc not all of them, but most of the ones I've met in my life.
kendrickispop@reddit
Largely disagree. They face constant racism, that’s a big consequence. They don’t have it easy because they are never given the benefit of the doubt. Simple example: a theft just took place in a plateia, the nearby police patrol is immediately informed and starts looking for the perpetrator, and since they cannot freeze time they must choose who of all people on the street they will question. Do you think if they see a gypsy woman for example they will leave her alone the same way they would a white woman?
VukKiller@reddit
They face constant and systemic racism because the LARGE majority are behaving exactly as the stereotype intails.
I know many Romani people that worked hard to integrate into the society. They all have jobs and took education seriously and are some of the hardest working and welcoming people and will always lend you a hand. Without a doubt, every single one of them despise the gypsies and their selfish way of life.
sorakaisthegoat@reddit
That's like asking if after a dog attack happens, police don't know the breed but they have to choose between questioning a golden retriever owner and a pitbull owner. The dilemma. Imho, you can't chalk those things up to racism, let alone systemic. They're often given opportunities other people aren't but all they think about is how to milk the government for more.
JimTheGentlemanGR@reddit
Can you blame them? Every single friend or family member of mine has had atleast ONE bad experience regarding a roma person, if they just integrated then the hate people have for them would just dissapear over time, as it is only based on their actions rather than who they are.
Marionberry_Far@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
crackred@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
CharacterDriver3410@reddit
same in slovenia
Incentus@reddit
Same in romania, you must bbe carefull how you adress them or you get a fine.
Yet all they do is steal and commit bad things.
S0urakotsos@reddit
Be careful buddy. They might ban you for being an 'ethnicist' because you talked about them.
EssAre6@reddit
Same in Macedonia…
CapitalScarcity5573@reddit
Same in Romania
Sunbee_Peanut@reddit
Same in Slovenija.
Knarrenheinz666@reddit
Pretty much anywhere in Europe. I guess it´s because they function within their larger social groups. Just like the Travellers in Ireland and the UK. You know, if you take them out of their social enviroment then the whole dynamics change. In Europe the tribe also works as a safety net but on the other hand is preventing closer interaction with the dominant society.
I went to school with a Roma girl. Proper local Roma aristocracy, wealthy, business people. They lived in a large villa, had two Western cars (which was something in the 80s) but once she graduated from junior high school she did not continue with her education and the authorities weren´t too fussed about making her return to school.
Last week I heard an Indian historian talk about how the indenture system transformed the rigid caste system of Indians outside of India in the 19th and 20th c. National and religious identity transcended cultural and social boundaries to a level where Brahmins would enter the houses of Dalits and accept cooked food from them.
Miserable-Ground-379@reddit
Because they dont want to integrate
Spicy_Lemmon@reddit
Yes, a friend was in the same class with a gypsy girl. She wanted to pursue higher education, but at her 16th birthday her father forbade her to go to school and arranged her a marriage. He didn't give her a choice. Just follow the traditions. And that happened in the 80's.
Envinyatar123@reddit
That happens now as well. And the girl that went to school with me (up until the 5th grade) was later murdered by her boyfriend,in front of their children. And this is a small country. We all know how they treat women and kids. Yet no one does anything.
jard2334@reddit
Not Balkan but Spanish here, that happened with a 14 year old gypsy girl 9 years ago.
She left in January and was pregnant in summer.
She said she preferred it to school.
Lost-Office-3770@reddit
I also know a numerous stories like this. One girl from my high school was forcibly married, they were gypsy muslims and had some MORBID traditions. She managed to escape after some time. Stories she told me were honestly so sick and bizarre and i felt so bad for her. On her wedding day she had to first sleep with her father in law(man in his 50s and she was 15) so that he could check her virginity. All aunties were also in that room. She was from a rich gypsy family, not one from the slums.
Spicy_Lemmon@reddit
That's disgusting 🤮
LaurestineHUN@reddit
Parental rights should be taken away at the mention of 'arranged marriage'. Enforce it by the police if you need to.
stevic1@reddit
the same exact thing happened to my classmate as well, and what makes it even worse is the fact that it didn't happen in the 80's.... the year was 2020, we were 15...
Capital2077@reddit
I have a very similar story, but it happened in Bucharest in the 2016. Girl in my high school class, entered the class on a gypsy specific spot, didn’t study at first but then became best friends with this girl that was very smart. She started to get good grades and then she got pregnant and dropped out of school.
kicklhimintheballs@reddit
Wait? You guys have affirmative action for the Romani in Romania? What’s a gypsy specific spot?
iamwantedforpooping@reddit
Generally you have a total of 2-4 (if i remember correctly) spots per class that are "reserved" for gypsies and "people with special educational needs". This means that IF they apply to those spots, they'll only have to compete among themselves, but ofc if noone applies normal romanians get them as usual.
It's a stupid idea to be sure but i have yet to find anyone who has used/admitted to using the gypsy seats to get into a highschool.
PreviousTransition36@reddit
This depends a lot on the school
veovis523@reddit
You have to compete to get into high school!?
lkt213@reddit
Where are you not competing for it?
veovis523@reddit
USA. Everyone typically goes to the high school in the school district where they live.
lkt213@reddit
Well... You are... Just with money instead of skills.
Tomonor@reddit
Same in Hungary. It’s a logical classification system for diverging life route models.
Those who seek higher education go to Gymnasiums (highschool focusing on a strong high-school diploma).
Those who want to get into trades go either to profession-middleschools or vocational schools. Profession-middleschools provide you with weaker knowledge on general studies, but do enable you to earn a trade with high-school diploma. Vocational schools give you a less complicated trade (eg. room painter) and no high school diploma.
Only the latter school type doesn’t involve competition. So essentially, if you are a bad learner, you are bound to end up in a vocational school.
veovis523@reddit
I understand it's a common system in Europe, but I still cringe a little at the notion that the way a student performs in middle school can set the trajectory of their entire life.
Tomonor@reddit
I mean yeah, it has its flaws. I especially got the short end of the stick, as I was a bad performer in primary school, had to enroll in a vocational school for 5 years, then an additional 3 years for a high school diploma, only because my grades weren’t too great in the 7th grade…
But I came around and ended up in a good place by my own diligence.
qkomi@reddit
Yeah, same here in Serbia but afaik there arent spots for them in highschools only in college and stuff, they need to get into highschool on their own
iamwantedforpooping@reddit
Well, kind of. We have Romanian and Maths exams at the end of 8th grade, and highschool admission is done according to your averages in those exams + your middle school grades. It's illegal to not get into a highschool, so you'll get admitted somewhere nevertheless, but if you want to enter one of the better ones (a National College) you will have to get a good average
mrs_seng@reddit
I had one such collague in college.
memelordrs@reddit
justkataa@reddit
In Hungary, Roma people also receive extra points when applying to higher education, so they start with an advantage. And throughout their studies, there are programs they can apply for that provide them with support.
dizzyro@reddit
We have public education. The selection is based on previous grades and tests/examens. The examens are meant to be the same for everyone, but there are places that reserve spots for minorities.
And yet, they complain that are not treated as equals ...
BestZucchini5995@reddit
http://ismb.edu.ro/documente/examene/admitere/2025_2026/4_Fisa_inscriere_IP_ID_niv_3_rromi_CES_2025_2026.pdf
mrs_seng@reddit
Slots in school and college reserved for gypsies.
zpetar@reddit
It's not much different these days either. Those who want to break free from those traditions are facing hard time. Like they are traitors.
Many_Mud_8194@reddit
In France 2 kind of gypsies adapted a bit, the first one are named Tzigane and work going city to city and building a small fun park with few machines, like roller coaster. They are rich usually and stay between them but often accept an outsider to come and marry one of them. Second is the spanish speaking gypsies, they live in ghetto for a part of them and have jobs like trashman or construction. Other groups like the roms are an issue they don't want to adapt or live here they just take the most money they can and go back home to build a mansion. They might do the same in the whole Balkans.
Substratas@reddit
Sounds just like Albanians.
Have you seen how half of the Albanians in this sub are constantly after me, calling me ”traitor” and trying to reveal private information about me just because I don’t have the same opinions as them?
I didn’t know we were so similar to Romanis culturally.
Classic-Exit4189@reddit
Dude you're not Albanian at all. Your posts are pure bait.
Substratas@reddit
Exhibit A. I rest my case.
thatsexypotato-@reddit
what do you mean? i don't know that person..
observatorystory@reddit
This is still happening today unfortunately.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
I thought traditional values were a good thing? Right-wingers are crazy about it.
RKaji@reddit
"Traditional values" is just a cover up for "I don't want change because it threatens my privileges"
CryptographerLucky42@reddit
only their traditional values lol no one else’s
Sapphire-Drake@reddit
Apparently rightwingers are also crazy about raping kids so it's not surprising traditional values include stuff like selling little girls
kendrickispop@reddit
That’s not ‘not wanting to integrate’. That’s also the state not protecting the young ones who could integrate. Why should the young gypsy in question be to blame?
jelle814@reddit
fair, they could/should force school until 18 for example
smishul@reddit
Theoretically, they do, you're supposed to finish 12 year of school. In practice... nobody enforces this and, in 2025, 16% of children aged 6-14 are not enrolled in school. At this rate, Romania is probably going to become a failed state.
Insomnia_and_Coffee@reddit
Only 10 grades are mandatory. It is not mandatory to finish highschool. So that girls father let her go to school for as long as the law made them.
smishul@reddit
Nope, high school is mandatory as of 2023. Not like it matters anyway, but, legally speaking, you're supposed to finish 14 classes: 12 years of school and 2 years of preschool/kindergarten. Look it up.
kendrickispop@reddit
Can’t believe you are having this conversation without mentioning which country this information applies to
cedrella_black@reddit
In Bulgaria education is mandatory until 10th grade, so approx. 16 years old.
Antique-Suggestion-3@reddit
same in Romania
rablador@reddit
“Become”? Brother…
Ok-Conversation-7292@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
KarmaViking@reddit
That would be one way to go but you cannot enforce that without a robust child protection service system and very well funded schools in usually the poorest towns in the country.
The way it usually goes is that if the school is mainly attended by gipsy children, it becomes totally lawless. Not because of the kids, but because of the parents’ cultures. If the kid routinely misses school and they get their welfare cancelled for it, they basically storm the school and beat the shit out of any teacher who took part in the process - so teachers usually don’t even sign them up for skipping classes.
strictly_ballroom@reddit
It’s not so easy, yeah education may be free, but without some family support it is very difficult to graduate and provide for yourself during that time. And here it’s not just a case of parents not having much to support you bug basically disowning you for trying to stay in school. They force girls to have kids so they get state child support.
kendrickispop@reddit
I think people underestimate the amount of resources necessary to integrated marginalised groups; the ‘middle class’ in its broadest sense is blind to the support systems and to the wealth of informal social capital it is able to tap into if it finds itself in need. Maybe the Romani girls should be eligible for state support even without having children just as a way to allow them to cut their dependence from their authoritarian families.
strictly_ballroom@reddit
Yes but the middle class are also paying majority of taxes so such policies are always unpopular as people look at gypsies like leeches exploiting the system.
kendrickispop@reddit
Then don’t complain about a leaking roof if you’re not willing to fix it
strictly_ballroom@reddit
Well I’m just saying what the argument most people have is. I’d have nothing against it but it isn’t up to me. Most people think they should be punished like that will help them integrate.
memelordrs@reddit
We have a middle class in the Balkans
kendrickispop@reddit
Functionally illiterate or just a troll. Hint: “in its broadest sense”
memelordrs@reddit
My username should give you the answer
Norisprinkles@reddit
Education is mandatory for everyone with residence and a valid identity card. Dedicated spots, housing, benefits, extra education is being offered. They dodge all of this as well
Spicy_Lemmon@reddit
I'm saying that the father doesn't want to integrate and is not letting his daughter to do so.
milkofthevalley@reddit
i doubt they would gracefully accept the state interfering with their family matters. you and i would accept it, but i doubt they'd
Disastrous-Text-5995@reddit
Same with my(EU immigrant) male classmate(”gypsie”) back in 2015 German highschool, then next year with his little brother and good friend of mine Dissapearing too after telling us about how he got in trouble and had to pay a fine to another romani family for texting their same age daughter and subsequently pulled out of school to join family business.
sometimes i see him and his big family and feel sad that he is trapped in something he said he didnt want, and more so that we teased him at times and drove him to only feel accepted in that bad company.
VehicleMaleficent538@reddit
they can get married even at a younger age tbh with u, i saw some at 8-9 yo getting married so is not a specific age for this but ik for sure is before 18
Saya-Mi@reddit
Similar story from 2021 in Czechia. A girl, my pupil, 11 years old. I asked her what she wanted to do? She said she wanted to continue going to school, but she doesn't have any other dreams as her father already prepares her fro marriage and houshold chores and she's gonna drop out in 7th grade.
Efficient_Ant_7279@reddit
Yeah I have a “friend” who was set up with his wife in the same way. Except he told me they were promised to each other when they were kids. It never made a lot of sense to me however as their age gap was like 15 years….
bluewhaledream@reddit
Sounds like your friend wanted to integrate, but her system wouldn't allow her to
Streptomicin@reddit
That happened in 2012 last case I personally know about.
chloroformalthereal@reddit
I was in the top high school in my country, in the best class. The kids that got in to the STEM profile all had top 500 marks in the country.
In my class, there was this gypsy girl. Highest grades in the entire class. Smart, kindhearted, good kid. 9 younger brothers and sisters that she took care of while her older siblings/parents ran their 2nd hand car import business.
When she turned 16 she was betrothed, the day she turned 18 she invited us all to her wedding. Ended up getting pregnant that same summer, had 3 kids. Only managed to finish college when she turned 30.
Content-Schedule1796@reddit
This. But also because those that want to integrate are treated as less than, so in the end a lot of them have to choose to either live in a society that discriminates against them, or in a society where they are accepted only if they follow their rules and traditions.
alkorisno@reddit
It is like Serbia and EU. They dont want us, so we dont want it anymore either. Nobody will subject themselves to mercy of bigots. Who would hire a gypsy in their shop? You dont want them, then they dont want you
KaleidoscopeFar8190@reddit
If I had made the same comment I’d get banned so I’ll do with upvoting yours instead
Titanius_Angelsmyth@reddit
Why?
KaleidoscopeFar8190@reddit
I have been banned by reddit for more stupid reasons, for example yesterday there was a post about historical lion living spaces and OP asked if we would want them back and I said yes just for shits and giggles then I got banned for a week, not from the sub but from the reddit. My appeal eventually got the ban lifted but still it’s weird that it happened.
Longjumping_Turn_105@reddit
I got banned for using the Term "gypsy" and now I surprised this thread even exists.
Titanius_Angelsmyth@reddit
Why would the term "gypsy" even be considered offensive?
I dont understand who decided that.
The term "Roma" was not known and started being used relatively recently.
For centuries it wasnt used or even known.
I understand that "Roma" is what their actual named in their language (means "man") so it is preferable.
That doesnt make the exonym (aka "gypsy") offensive.
Everyone calls us Greeks which is an exonym.
We would like everyone to call us Hellenes and not Greeks.
It doesnt offend me though is anyone or everyone calls us Greeks.
Same with Germans instead of Deutch, or Japanese instead of Nihonjin
nikostheater@reddit
For clarification, the ethnonym “Greek” isn’t an exonym, it’s based on a very real Greek tribe Γραικοί and the term is fully endonym, that for historical reasons other nations call us that, although we don’t call ourselves that.
Titanius_Angelsmyth@reddit
I know the feeling...
I got banned from r/worldnews and I honestly dont know why.
Dont even remember ever commenting there.
LOL
TheRoyalPepperoni@reddit
I have got ban from community because I made a compliment but use the word agenda, in my comment (permanent ban from the community, first offence)
Titanius_Angelsmyth@reddit
LOL
Some people find the "power"of being a reddit mod intoxicating.
Imnagine their condition irl. :D
Classic-Exit4189@reddit
Honestly the communists here tried very hard to integrate them. Gave them free houses, steady jobs, had to literally force them to let their kids go to school etc. And still after the communist system fell many went back to their old ways.
DaMFdownThaStreet@reddit
The Albanian movie "Mao Ce Dun" explains this very well
ech_sk@reddit
Way to little care was given to cultural changes, not just for them.
Even in Croatia, everyone is just a nazi now.
In nearly 50 years, we should have had that covered, but alas, we looked westwards.
Lord_Asmodeus93@reddit
Exactly. Had a conversation over smoking with a gypsy guy recently, and he said he wants to drop out of school. I was trying to convince him not to, and he said "You're not one of us, you wouldn't understand".
i_spill_nonsense@reddit
Its almost as if it is a complex problem where a learned behaviour is hard to change with surface level policies.
ba-na-na-@reddit
It's a closed circle, they live in ghettos in Europe, families have a lot children, they have been taught the gypsy ways from young age. And typically their "representatives" with the state prefer this status quo because it gives them benefits (the representatives get benefits of course). It's not like young gypsies want to collect junk their whole lives, but it's not in the interest of the people in charge.
_Caligulean_@reddit
This comment explains it all. They simply sabotage themselves
Traditional-Coat8571@reddit
Gypsies have never integrated anywhere. Are you dumb?
Hot_Conclusion_7868@reddit
The ones that were able to fully integrate don’t talk about it a lot. I am one, I recently finished a degree in finance and live a normal life. I always had equal opportunities in life as other people, though in order for one to live a life like that, they have to have an educated and an open minded family. I am grateful for my loving family.
Hodorization@reddit
🙏
PasicT@reddit
Because they didn't want to and still don't want to.
SolidSplit1305@reddit
The biggest problem is that they stick together in one place and they live a lifestyle that everybody hate, in the village that I live in, there are a few families of gypsies that have integrated, all the young ones went to school,all of them have a job, all of them are treated as part of the community.
Is very hard for them to integrate when they live outside of the society they need to integrate in.
There are villages and blocks in the cities where only gipsies live, that is the problem, segregation is preventing them from integration.
This is in my Romania
Critical-Ad-8507@reddit
"The biggest problem is that they stick together in one place and they live a lifestyle that everybody hate,"
Honestly,is PREFERABLE if those who refuse to assimilate just stay outside and mind their own business!
At least they don't try to push their lifestyle on others,or get hostile with people who refuse to.
SolidSplit1305@reddit
Yeah, but that doesn't solve the problem, it's actually accentuates the problem.
darth_vladius@reddit
In Bulgaria it is pretty much the same.
The ones who do integrate (and there are a lot of them) usually do not live in the gypsy blocks.
We also have a rising number of them who went to another country to work there (e.g. Germany) and then returned to Bulgaria. They also prefer to work and integrate here and they also do not live in the gypsy blocks.
readilyunavailable@reddit
Really? My impression has alaways been that they go to work in Western Europe seasonally and then come back and blow all their money partying and buying expensive cars, then do it again next year.
At least it used to be like that before living in Bulgaria became more expensive than living in Germany lol.
Hodorization@reddit
Selection bias:
Those who blow their money, or just live that annoying life style and always piss people off, are the ones people remember as gypsies.
If you integrate and lead a "boring" life style, people don't remember you as a gypsy unless they know you well.
MarkMew@reddit
I know some integrated people who very vocally hate the other ones LOL, is that a thing over there?
(Sorry I'm technically not Balkan I just like this sub and I'm interested in the Balkan POV)
Pristine-Big-1159@reddit
Dont worry Hungary is pretty much balkan on all aspects besides geography
LaurestineHUN@reddit
We're Balkan light, shops close earlier but life is still high octane.
Business-Contact2330@reddit
I'm Canadian and have no Balkan ancestry and I still like this sub lol
Archaeopteryx111@reddit
You are more than welcome to our sub! And yes, in Romania too.
darth_vladius@reddit
Yup. Same.
Generally the one who manage to integrate do not like the ones from the ghetto.
Bear_necessities96@reddit
Sounds like same problem with African Americans for a long were segregated and nowadays some still live this segregated life, same with Mexican American in southwestern
SolidSplit1305@reddit
The borders are made-up,human behaviour is the same everywhere you go.
But in the US bullshit propaganda is out of control, for example do white people call themselves european-american?
AffectionateWash7787@reddit
Stay with more than one gipsy at time more than a day....then realize
alkorisno@reddit
Because they dont own land, since we never gave them any. In US nobody owns land, so they are just as fucked as everyone
snorwors@reddit
It's not true, there are lots of them that work steady jobs, buy a house, send kids to school and uni... It's just that they kinda stop being what you associate them with, which is to not go to school, have kids in your teens, and just keep that circle going. So the premise of the question isn't really true.
Nadaleanu@reddit
Lots of them that live outside of their communities and don’t live in their traditional ways are integrated. The thing is that once a gypsy is integrated, they’re basically stop being considered gypsy and lots of them stop referring to themselves as gypsies as well. So the only “gypsies” that are left are the ones not integrated basically
fancywipe@reddit
My very 1st day in Romania I get robbed by a ………
Other than that Romania to me is one of the most beautiful places in the world, besides that!
Leather-Substance-39@reddit
We love our Gypsy fellow citizens. They are the key to the brighter future of our country! Let's not paint with a broad brush!
fancywipe@reddit
Everything I saw regarding that was not great and I went with a open mind, it’s extremely distinctive
Leather-Substance-39@reddit
I posted the previous comment because when I posted a factual comment earlier in this thread someone reported me and I got a warning. So then I say we love our Romani fellow citizens please understand that I am in a precarious situation here, risking a permanent ban
morphick@reddit
PuzzleheadedAir6272@reddit
Two years ago I got scammed in Cluj by a gypsy cab driver. Instead of driving me to my destination for the agreed price he drove me somewhere else and threatened me with his brother to beat me up if I don't pay them 50 Eur.
I managed to get out and call the Police. Police came and made me fucking pay them the money.
Romania has massive issues with corruption.
I never understood why any city would allow this trash behaviour to be honest. Similar with Paris and Rome. What do you have a beautiful city for, if it's such a shithole?
durasel24@reddit
We have Bolt and Uber, we avoid taxies here for reasons.
EasternEuropeRBF@reddit
Please, please, please make a complain online, describing all detalis you remember: https://politiaromana.ro/ro/petitii-online
scricimm@reddit
Te-au ginit...(Which roughly translates to they saw you, targeted you, as saw that you where not from around...so you got picked👍🏼)
fancywipe@reddit
Every single person thought I was Romanian a view thought I was Russian, I’m South African. Every single person I met beside that person was the most authentic people I’ve ever come across
I gave respect and I received it in abundance but it so happened everything I didn’t like I can’t express. It was pathetic and it was done in a sly manner anyway can’t wait to get back to your beautiful country
bremmmc@reddit
That's not ideal, yes, but they are integrated.
Annual-Meat-1196@reddit
Not only Balkans. Nordics too.
vladasr@reddit
There is as much integrated as non integrated in Serbia. It depends on person
Zoshi2200@reddit
Because they keep stealing
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
I call bullshit on racism claim, at least the way it's been used in America
I live in close proximity to their slims and can safely claim that they live in inhuman conditions
All aggression against them are always focused on their habits, be it stealing, attacking, drugs, alcoholism, vandalism, incest, family abuse or whatever else. Sure, there are classical racists who hate them just for sake of hating them, but majority of people I cam across, including myself, get weary of those who are clearly poor, dirty and usually loud and disrupting others. I do the same when a white person does the same, it's about how they act, not who they are, but due to their "culture", they are the largest percentage of such cases.
And it's their own choice, largely. They marry within their own culture and even practice incest, because, per their own words, they would go extinct within 2-3 generations if they don't do that
It's sad, heartbreaking, especially for their kids...
ManualBookworm@reddit
In Bosnia, they live in tents or old abandoned houses without water or electricity. Around their tents there's a bunch of garbage, always. They litter, but never pick it up. They used to beg for money, they still do, but nowadays it's mostly poor Bosnians doing so. They're known of breaking their young infants foot or an arm and let it heal improperly to gain sympathies when begging for money. Just a strange bunch of people.
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
In Serbia, it's not even tents kr abandoned houses, literal garbage thrown and connected together tk resembles a crude shelter, the rest is about the same and completely deserves the name "unhygienic neighborhood"
ManualBookworm@reddit
Except in Šabac? A good friend of mine is from there and says that Gypsies actually have villas and are rich. Is that true?
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
Ooh, I was talking about slums!
There are rich folks all around, but they are more in the "gastarbajter" 'subculture' lol
Although I witnessed once something I couldn't believe... Poorer part of iirc Zemun, not slums, but many unfinished houses. Went to buy something off of internet and first got to see a Roma guy and his family on the first floor of the house, living without windows, bare bricks all around, baby sleeping on ground next to a crude kiln or what's it called in English (peć). Then, when other brother finally came, we went downstairs to the ground floor. Inside? Marbel on all walls, huge mirrors all around, 70+ inch TV and then latest Xbox and kinect with tons of games (all from Germany of course), never seen such a luxury myself up until or since then
And still can't believe, 2 brothers, one is basically a week away from starving or freezing to death alongside his family, the other is living comparable to a government official. Same unfinished house. Just, what the fuck
ManualBookworm@reddit
What the hell 🤣 thank you for sharing! I enjoyed reading this! ♡
kicklhimintheballs@reddit
You know that most American racists hate Blacks because of their “stealing, attacking, drugs, alcoholism, vandalism” as you put it.
It’s really not that different
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
And what js the issue there? When it's actually like that?
Being scared of a crackhead is logic, not racist, and if you live in a neighborhood where there are predominantly black crackheads that ain't racism
If a woman clutches her purse when she sees a regular black dude, clean, dressed normally or even in a less white way, but still not homeless way? Now that is racist, a huge difference
ohwellhell@reddit
The Habsburg Monarchy has tried to assimilate Romani people since the 18th century. Yugoslavia tried to do the same. Many/most EX-YU countries have policies in place that should help with their assimilation with everyone else. All these states tried so many different laws to help them, some of them quite radical...and none helped - at least not in any meaningful way.
Instead of stealing horses, now they steal and con people out of other stuff.
Obviously, there are many great examples of Romani people getting education and succeeding, but it needs to be a much larger part of the population.
And that's a problem because, in the eyes of their families and "the culture", it is a betrayal if they seek education and abandon their families etc.
That's why you see many Romani girls abandoning school and getting married off at 16.
Unfortunately, if they want to be a part of the wider community, they often have to "betray" and abandon their family, so many choose not to. And I think it's understandable - choosing your family instead of being a part of society. Even if it means remaining in that community that they know is not good for them.
It's a systemic problem in their "culture" and it hasn't been solved by force. It hasn't been solved by handing them free shit. It hasn't been solved by giving them more leeway by the law enforcement.
It can only be solved by education and unfortunately most of their children don't get that opportunity because of their parents.
EstablishmentHot3498@reddit
It's racist because when you encounter a brown skinned person you can't help but compare them or put them in the same light as the people that do the same things that you mentioned even before getting to know that person. White people commit the same crimes, so do Asians, Hispanics, etc. I'm not saying there are people who don't have any prejudices or at least make an effort to evaluate their stance on how they perceive others that don't look like them, but being realistic, the chances of coming across educated people in low income countries is not that high.
CryptographerLucky42@reddit
Bruh you sound extremely racist. especially the last sentence.
Potential_Seal98@reddit
They just explaind to you that its not the way you think it is!
And if YOU encounter a brown skinned person and think that, than that is a YOU problem!!!
YOU already think you are better than the perople in "low income countires", as per your last sentence!
U-r-S@reddit
Bc they are nomads, never intended to integrate
EasternEuropeRBF@reddit
Well, then maybe they should continuu to move on. Their world shoud not be limited to balkans and Europe.
CryptographerLucky42@reddit
They have, a lot of them are in north america and other places. though most have stayed in eastern europe
SuedeJacketMonster@reddit
We were all nomads at one point. Gypsies have been here for maybe 1000 years. Come on.
Affectionate-Arm-405@reddit
Before answering your question, we should ask.....
Where they have been fully integrated?
There's no point on focussing just on the Balkans.
cpteric@reddit
in spain they're a big part of why flamenco got popular, but those come from 19th, early 20th century acenstors that settled. 20 years ago laws were made so they were forbidden from setting up roaming camps and their children *had* to go to public school. the first years were iffy with lots of "someone rented my flat and there's not even the floorwork left", but haven't heard of major stuff since. there's isolated gangs that once in a while still steal copper but it's not a weekly occurrence and most of the time it's foreigners, last i heard.
Ashen-wolf@reddit
As a spaniard, they are exactly the same as what I am reading in all these comments. The flamenco is no different from other folkloric dances and songs yall have around the balkans, its not just the gypsy community that adopted it.
Personally from my own neighborhood, I can tell you for sure there is still teenage marriages (16onwards) and they do whatever they want. Friend of mine got one pregnant at 15, got threatened and ended living into their community.
cpteric@reddit
I guess experience varies? the tight knit community in my city was around their caravan/tent camps, so once these were dissolved they just merged into low income 'hoods, not so different than others, and i got the first part of my comment from a friend from cadiz, but not personal so i can't promise for sure.
Ashen-wolf@reddit
It depends where are you from, but it is undeniable, there is documentaries about it because they unfortunately are often tied with drug operations so there's a bit of background there too.
cpteric@reddit
edited my comment to make more sense. street drug trade in my home city was handled by east european trucker-linked gangs when i left in '19, but it wasn't a big thing.
numba1cyberwarrior@reddit
They were fully in the US
bdchatfi3@reddit
Those in the US were ones who wanted out of society and a different life. “Normal” people don’t immigrate.
galactic_nonsense@reddit
In India maybe :D
HalfProfessional3227@reddit
They were pushed out of India,even the jeets tell them to go
SeaAspect7551@reddit
Are Romani historically of Indian origin?
bababum007@reddit
Yes. There is a tribe or something like that to this day in India, where they originate from.
M3t4ll0@reddit
There are three villages in Serres where they are at least 80% integrated. They have shops, are farmers, average and good houses, mixed marriages,graduate ,at least, from high school, no stealing, no begging( at least the younger generation).
Conscious_Medium_834@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Outrageous_Deal_5620@reddit
it's the racism. after a certain point why try to integrate in a society who will not pick at every little thing you do regardless of how much you try. you are forced to delete parts of your cultural identity and assimilate, not integrate, just to feel a morsel of human decency that natives get by default. as someone who lived 10+ years in the UK and left it for the same reasons, I understand completely. and people going like "because they didn't want to" are ignorant and have never experienced true ostracizing at a systematic and cultural level.
giallonero21@reddit
Because they don't want to.
Its_just_Zhivko@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Lady_Airam@reddit
They don’t want to
Leni_licious@reddit
They are stuck in a rigid cycle of familial and cultural pressure, where children aren't given the opportunity to study well, they are married very early (teens or early 20s) when they HAVE to rely on family support (and if they refuse they will be shunned and maybe kicked out completely), and thus they are doing manual labour type jobs if they are employed, crime or benefits if not.
I feel very sorry for them in the sense that unless you are willing to sacrifice everyone and everything you've ever known, you are unlikely to be able to break free unless you are in already a more open-minded family, and in the position of being able to run without being dragged back.
r3giment75@reddit
Because they’re gypsies
LongjumpingBowler244@reddit
They don't want.
Tinenan@reddit
Because of extreme racism against them
Skarin999@reddit
Littery no?
PartyAnimallll@reddit
Maybe they value their traditions, culture and family system. Which has alot of lifetime benefits as well.
But thats the freedom of choice which everyone exercise. We can't complain. We respect 😊 if we want inpire someone we need to best ourselves. Till than everyone thinks they are better than others. Na that's wrong we bleed red.
Funfact white people are more colorful than any other color. You know why?
When white people are sick their skin color turns pale. When hurt turns blue. When happy turns red. When normal it's white 😏
Brown always stay brown, black always stays black except Micheal Jackson lol just kidding. Have a nice day.
VeryAngryClapper@reddit
you can't integrate animals
sinfulbrand@reddit
Racism
Penya23@reddit
FTFY
sinfulbrand@reddit
Yes people who don’t have access to education because of discrimination and racism won’t know better.
Stop being ignorant.
What-Is-Drugs-1773@reddit
Is that Rober De Niro?
positive-Radish-69@reddit
One case of gypsies integrating does not relate to the whole gypsy community!
We have certain cases of gypsies integrating and making it in the balkans, while the rest of 99% does not. And it is not for the lack of trying from the government side, believe that..
Late_Secret3480@reddit
Let's see hie many Greeks will be banned
lonelystar7@reddit
I think it's just that more traditional Gypsies wouldn't even decide to move to USA, and just financially to move to USA you need to first be financially responsible beforehand because trip and living and everything isn't free.
Those Gypsies that stay are more traditional and aren't financially as well established to begin with, so they get stuck to old behaviors that doesn't bring prosperity.
Febos@reddit
In Slovenia one group is fully integrated, the other is not. It is a lot of about the group history and culture.
Early-Show2886@reddit
a colorized picture of my so called turkish gypsy great-grandfather...dont know if he was a Mix or not. Y-DNA of him was R1a-steppe Lineage, central asia group.
dev_ating@reddit
Because of rampant racism in Europe. You talk to someone in Eastern Europe and if they're conservative, like many are, or simply accomodated to it, they will treat any gypsies as subhuman. This behaviour does not make one want to continue to have contact with people, you feel?
shko-der@reddit
Mostly nomad lifestyle at least in albania. They tend to not care about school or whatever,also racism and lots of bullshit.
Archaeopteryx111@reddit
But you guys don’t have that many in Albania from what I read.
vivaervis@reddit
Not that many but the ones that live here, can be noticed easily.
Strygwyr333@reddit
Because they don’t want to, and because we don’t do anything meaningful about it
EasternEuropeRBF@reddit
The austro-hungarians tried, the communists tried, the UE policies are trying. More than 100 years of tentatives of integration and none of them were meaningful?!?!? To me, this looks more like trying to treat an addict: if there is not desire and will from that person, any treatment is just meaningless.
oby953@reddit
A long history of discrimination modern slavery and flat out treating them like animals. This is true for Romania and I'm ready to bet it's so for the other Balcan countries as well
Apnanizor@reddit
i dont want to comment, last time I commented on gypsies I got a strike from reddit, but, you all know
bluecaesar1389@reddit
Isn't it interesting how they cry that people hate them, that they harass them etc, but 99% literally live up to the stereotypes? But then they're protected "like polar bears"
Kulbasar@reddit
They are raised to keep themselves separated from others, even if they don't want to are forced to abandon their education and of course they are very poor financially which forces them into crime. Of course this isn't always the case since I know gypsy families who have become a part of society.
Mrbigz12@reddit
My god he has a corrvete, thats some next lvl achieve the american dream type shiz. Here they beg for money 😭
Chrisdnd@reddit
Integration means learning the local language, customs, way of life. They simply don't wan to do that. I am from Greece and from our local example, they stay together forming their own communities, not trying to mix with the local population.
Darkness_Nox@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
kairex_27@reddit
systemic racism
Early-Show2886@reddit
Exceptions prove the rule. My paternal grandfather was a so-called Turkish Gypsy. But according to my DNA tests and haplogroup, his ancestors must also have been of mixed race with.
My Y-DNA is R1a1, Central Asian steppe lineage.
My grandfather's father (allegedly also a Turkish Gypsy) was in the Ottoman army in WWI and died a martyr in Çanakkale.
I myself still have 13% Roma DNA.
Ok_Profession_8471@reddit
Because not all, but most of them, are savages living in carton cities and, even if they want to improve, not even talking about the means of earning for a living or living conditions, they act like savages towards other people.
Some of them come from Austria where they were able to live better lives due to goverment aid, to visit relatives durign summer, and act like they own the world. Somewhat like what you see black kids do in American movies.
fenea95@reddit
The most recent reason is probably comunism, while on surface everyone was equal, gypsies were marginalised, nomad people weren't viewed well, so they were forced to settle, this triggered an anti system response.
So while in US they mostly received human/fair treatment in postbelic era, here that only started less than 50 years ago, not to mention that prior to that they were also targeted for concentration camps, and before that they were slaves.
Now I believe we have good if not better than US programs for integration and providing higher education, but this process takes time, US is probably familiar with this process from slavery, but the difference is time.
Icy_Relationship_401@reddit
Ok shit heads in closed communities forcing their kids to uphold outdated traditions just so they can have a semblance of power in their hands.
They will never be able to integrate with those conditions.
Shown how those that do aren’t burdened by those factors
RiceCharacter967@reddit
Who would want to integrate in a corrupt failed state, where people love to blame everybody but themselves for their misery?
DisastrousNews1130@reddit
Because they were enslaved on these lands and were never seen as equals.
They had to stick together and created their own laws within their communities, which they still live by today.
I m not doing their apology, as their reputation in the society is something I can confirm, but I think it comes from a feeling of rebellion they all related to at some point in history, which was passed on through generations
Why would they want to fit in a society created by people who never welcomed them? Of course they rebelled and rejected whatever that society dictated
Enough_Gate_5542@reddit
racism thats just the truth. Yes they have many faults in their culture, but lets not pretend that for minorities the balkans are a great place to immirgate too, even balkans themselves have to leave to go to germany and such due to massive corruption. My neighbour is romani from croatia (Karlovac) and when he turned 12 they recieve all sorts of harrasment and such and got stabeed at the train station.
its the same reason why african amercians commit 50% of crime despite being 13%, but truth is majority of balkan culture is too conseravtive and racist to admit it, theres large systemic issues barring them.
SoundConfident3925@reddit
What is this picture have to do with balkan gypsies? These two are obviously pikeys.
dancesquared@reddit
They’re American gypsies.
AbsoluteUrbanPlanner@reddit
too much anti-Gypsyism in the replies (with racist generalizations criticizing the entire Gypsy community)… what are the mods even doing?
Mysterious-Ad-9120@reddit
I never liked the word assimilate, what the hack is this? Integration I would understand but assimilate!!! Wtf
sinkpisser1200@reddit
Just look the documentary: when Borat came to town. It focusses on the gypsies that got screwed over for that movie. But half way you see that the documentary makers give up and start to pick the side of Borat. Greatest mockumentary that is not a mockumentary
5ofDecember@reddit
So they like jews in some sense, the same internal pressure
memelordrs@reddit
The same reason other immigrants from the Balkan lead normal lives when they emigrate to the US
Unhappy-Attitude3668@reddit
They are chasing american dream lol, if you call that assimilation then idk, id say our gypsies are chasing balkan dream and we’re good.
In US they have their own communities, they marry mostly into other gypsy families, and not really that much different from our own gypsies.
But with money, more opportunities and whatnot
Pkor766@reddit
Not just the balkans. Portuguese here, same problem
Bitter-Forever335@reddit
Because they steal, ghetoize themselves, dont want to integrate in general
Important-Mark8123@reddit
My child has been bullied by therm at school. The school is afraid to take action and it made them bolder. On our doctor’s initiative, we are now transferring our child to another school, after he had to be hospitalized following the last attack. Police investigated the case, but charges were lost in paperwork between govt bodies, and school imposed only mild punishment. Why would they integrate? They are more protected this way.
RogerSimonsson@reddit
They don't have to. They have their own suburbs and own villages and culture and foreigners trying to impose anything is not gonna go down well. This is not very different from other ethnic groups in Balkans. One does not simply integrate e.g. the Hungarian minority into Romania.
Even if they try, the workmarket is very bad for them, and they will face a lot of discrimination. Or forced to marry or work.
They were literal slaves for a long time, and were part of the holocaust. These things are generally not great for integration.
kallefranson@reddit
Yeah, with a mainstream society as hostile to them and centuries of slavery, ethnic cleansing and genocides, it is no wonder their culture also became hostile and suspicious of the majority culture, even if it hurts their own chances now. It is hard to overcome that.
funky_ferl@reddit
You are talking about a group of people. A lot dont. want to but a lot are integrated
I have two students with Romani background... they are well integratet.
Mokomo_Titipuru@reddit
Its up to the elites to come up with policies to integrate them, you cant hage expectations from people who are completely outside the education system. Up until now there was no comprehensive and coherent plan to integrate them. In the US there is no social system, if you do illegal stuff there is a high chance you will get shot, plus other economic reasons for which they integrated better.
PlayThePlayable@reddit
They need only a hard fist and zero tollerance. Than they will decide if they want to integrate or to leave.
slavujkaaa@reddit
In Serbia, the vast majority of them would rather die than go to work every day like the rest of us. Instead they find means to survive (bare minimum) but on their own terms and they seem to be content with it. I've never seen a Gypsy in Serbia asking around for any kind of job. When you see a healthy looking Gypsy beggar and offer them work instead, they just laugh and move away from you. I guess it's their culture.
AmoebaNo4948@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
wanderingtaoist@reddit
This is not just Balkans, but the whole Eastern Europe. The Eastern Europeans answer: They don't want to integrate. The real answer: the whole region is xenophobic as f*ck.
StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit
They didn't want to.
Nearby-Froyo-6127@reddit
They still dont and we kind of hold them on a pedestal when it comes to punishment for a crime.
StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit
It's what the legislative wanted. We're fully in compliance with all the international treaties, we even had certain communities of them defended by institutions.
Can't say anything because isms, can't protest cause legalism, can't deny service to obvious scams because discrimination etc.
It's too much protectionism that confers criminals, in general, a sense of security and an ability of persistence into criminal activities.
And it's not isolated cases either.
I'm tired to even talk about this, I just avoid any contact by default.
ZeistyZeistgeist@reddit
1.) Romanis in Europe are very resistant to any attempt of assimilation and staunchly hold to their own belief systems, which are considered to be archaic and restrictive by European standards. They are very tightly-knit, and the 600 years of co-exsistence with Europeans created steteotypes and general negative views that are almost impossible to be rooted out, and nobody is willing to try. Any Romani in Europe who wishes to pursue an independent life and higher education has to basically renounce their roots and assimilate to a level where they have to erase their Romani cultural identity, both due to Romanis being more than happy to excommunicate anyone who does not upheld their views, and Europeans being unaccepting of anyome with a Romani background unless that background is erased.
2.) Romanis in the US went to the US not in spite of Romani heritsge, but more because of it. US Romanis have a more watered-down version of the belief system of their European brethren, and their identity more assimilated with American values. Moreover, those Romanis had more money to be able to move to the US, and by rejecting their traditional values in lieu of a more Americanized life, fared much better in the US than in Europe.
ConsequenceKnown4012@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
CarobOk8979@reddit
I bet you wouln’t want to integrate in this system if you were born outside of it
User20242024@reddit
In Vojvodina, they are largely integrated.
hruschov@reddit
I am not sure they have intergraded in the USA as well. You are just cherry picking good examples. You have those in the Balkans, who just decided not to go in line with toxic tradition.
Longjumping-Bug7327@reddit
Spain would be an example of how to do it ?
quake-n-doom@reddit
Dunno about the rest of balkans, but in Croatia they are well integrated with just certain ghettos (up north mostly, but those are ex-hungarian gipsies) where things go south. My drummer is a gipsy, plays heavy metal like no tommorow , married a white croatian girl, lives a normal croatian life. There are either mild cultural differences or, at this point, none at all.
GenericUsername030@reddit
They don't want to integrate. Unlike the ones in the US who arrived in small groups, the ones in the Balkans have had their communities for centuries. They have their own way of life and don't want to change it to ours. For a gypsy to integrate it would mean leaving their family.
HoliAss5111@reddit
You only see those who want to be seen. Source : I grew up in a community where most sent their kids to school, some even to uni, and returned to work for the mayor at the village hall. Girl too not only boys. The price was their traditions : they stopped wearing those long beautiful skirts and even at school, they wouldn't use their own language, only at home and outside of public institutions.
Ok-Bit-663@reddit
They have their own rich culture. They don't need anything from parent country except free money and sometimes someone to be punched and robbed. Otherwise they are just loud people who don't care about their environment or neighbours. So they just enjoy this, regardless how bad their actions affect you. Probably that's why. Another thing: We don't have prejudice against them. We have experience.
Turbulent-Remote2866@reddit
I think the premise of the question is false. There's wanting to integrate and begin able to - it's not like they've had the most welcoming reception throughout the world. Don't discount the insane prejudice they've faced. A lot harder to 'integrate' when the odds are stacked against you imo.
Alarming-Rutabaga-36@reddit
They don’t want to they have a lot of rights that they would simply lose.
Puzzleheaded_Use4735@reddit
none of these stupid comments tell the actual reality: in Romania, at least, the state doesn't invest in its people. Everyone has a hard time and because the gypsies had a historical handicap of migrating and being persecuted, the discrepancy simply remained.
dicky1977@reddit
In cash-strapped societies where opportunities are limited, prejudices tend to run high and marginalized groups often become easy scapegoats.
Historically, many Romani (Gypsies is considered a derogatory term) had a nomadic or semi-nomadic lifestyle, which meant they didn’t own land in the traditional sense. That alone put them outside the dominant economic system, where land ownership was (and still is) a key source of stability, wealth, and social status.
Over time, this exclusion compounded. Without land, access to stable jobs, education, and political representation was limited. That led to higher levels of poverty and informality, which then fed into negative stereotypes. It becomes a vicious cycle: exclusion leads to marginalization, which then gets interpreted as “cultural deficiency” rather than the result of structural barriers.
fatgirlcuddler@reddit
They did though... They just don't call themselves gypsies anymore
This is because their concept of "gypsyness" is basically "never ever actuslly be a member of society"
Cultural-Story-64@reddit
It’s because they don’t want to, this is what’s bad about mass immigration. If there is too much of one kind of immigrant imported at once, they talk to each other and have no need to integrate with the society around them. They open their own shops, they meet in the same parks, make their own bbq parties.
loleenceee@reddit
Why are gypsies in America just tacky White people, in Europe they are a different ethnicity
ultimatecolour@reddit
Tl;dr How would they? Should they make friends at work? At school? Hang out with their neighbours more?
For the most part they were traveling with their own group and also had adapted the skills to make a living on that model. My mom remembers as a kid that when caravans were coming to their village everyone would get their pot and pans mended or knives sharpened or pay day labourers to help with building.
When they had to stop traveling and practicing whatever crafts they had, they didn’t have a pathway to a regular place in the workforce and thus no regular means to make an income. These were skills that were needed on a yearly basis however not all year round.
So no, you can’t make friends with coworkers when you don’t have fixed employment. Travelling also means no regular schooling. Low literacy levels translated into next to no feasible jobs. Once they were forced down to a region and resorted to asocial behaviours for make a living, the were actively excluded. As long as you are in a materially precarious position, you rely heavily on your community. Yes, there were cases where individual members amassed wealth that would put them in line with the middle class however that doesn’t instantly grant you access to social ties. You still don’t have friends from primary school, you still don’t have neighbours you grew up with, etc.
Now they are at a point where most members of the group have access to regular employment, fixed housing, the kids can and do regularly attend school. Integration is multi generational process. There is also the aspect of why should they? There’s a difference in socioeconomic integration and cultural integration. And don’t come for me with “hur dur what culture “ .
bipolar1_baby325@reddit
In Albania is because they rather live in tents by the river
hubbabubbameqershi@reddit
Some did. But is hard too because they don't look like Europeans, it's not totally their fault.
Harmalin@reddit
In the Albanian society it’s generally difficult to be accepted as a non Albanian. Maybe it’s similar in the rest of the Balkans.
Horror-Zone343@reddit
You mean able to integrate anywhere? It’s a global issue
Belen2@reddit
There's an example of good integration. The place is called Pušča and it's located in Prekmurje region of Slovenia. Sadly it's an exception in comparison to other parts of Slovenia where Roma people live (especially Lower Carniola).
https://youtube.com/watch?v=20VF50kjr3g&is=9sELjI2XeX9MDJS-
Horror-Zone343@reddit
Very interesting!
Traditional_Ad7109@reddit
It’s culture and group behavior. You put one family far away from the others, they behave nicely and start slowly integrating to the community. But you put 10 family next to each other, they form their own community, parallel society. They have their own laws that absolutely incompatible with western civilization and laws and rules. ( labor is shameful and you do it when you starving. A beggar look down on you when you go to your 9 to 5 in the morning. They begging for money but in their eyes you are an absolute loser.) Some of them go to university and try to leave the community and they become absolute outcasts. There is an enormous social pressure inside them.
afewnameslater@reddit
Gypsies thrived in USA due to 0 social guard rails. In Europe, they just skimm off the governments and not give a fuck. Also the US gypsies were the 5% that were enterprenureal enough to seek better lives from themselves in USA and escape poverty so its bias.
fatbunyip@reddit
Historical racism and persecution meant that they tend to stick together and shun outsiders so you end up with us vs. them mentality.
When they go to the US they don't go with their entire community so it's easier to leave traditions behind. They are less marginalized in the US, in part because the perception and portrayal of them is quite different than in Europe. In the US they are seen as more free spirit bohemian types like Esmeralda in the Disney hunchback movie, or like mysterious and spiritual like the classic woman with the crystal ball, which is far from the experience people in Balkans have with them.
But there are also countries where they are more integrated than others (eg the Nordics), so there is definitely a spectrum.of integration.
eco_illusion@reddit
In Romania a famous author and politician said that after the abolition of slavery they took great strides to integrate gypsies into society, to the point where those who integrated were indistinguishable from the native population.
However fringe groups didn't trust that their former slavers would treat them fairly, so they more or less kept to themselves. Generation after generation of mistrust, pain, past horrors, past torture were passed down to where we are now.
derpmunster@reddit
They are not more integrated here in the Nordics. They are just a tad bit less criminal due to the abundant government handouts. Full self isolation and refusal to integrate here too. Personally, only negative experiences with roma here.
contradictionss@reddit
You're making it sound like they have integrated in other parts of the world
Primary-Sorbet-7257@reddit
Its called leaned helplessness. Also I worked a lot with them when i worked in social services. They take us for fools. We have all these rules and regulations and punishments, laws we should live by not created by us, while they are free, independent and do as they please. They will never integrate because they think that living like this is a punishment
Dukagjini__@reddit
The ottomans really didn’t like them
Archaeopteryx111@reddit
From what I remember, the Ottomans used them as entertainers/dancers.
Dukagjini__@reddit
Not really
Leather-Substance-39@reddit
See my comment above. Gypsies acted and menial laborers to Ottoman armies, horse thieves and traders, camp workers, entertainers, blacksmiths, metal workers, carpenters and worked in food supply, meaning they scouted the local population's food caches and livestock and looted them to feed the Turkish armies, they looted the dead and disposed of the dead bodies after battles, they did earthworks during sieges, did woodwork, carpentry, skinned animals, did leather work for horse equipment like saddles and reins. They retained most of these professions even after the Ottomans were pushed back. Up until recently Gypsies in Hungary did a lot of basket weaving, carpentry, earth works during the river regulations, they were used as laborers to dig the irrigation canals, draining swamps, construction of dams and embankments, horse trading, copper and brass work, etching, they worked in agriculture as sharecroppers, menial laborers in the fields. In my grandma's village when an animal died the Gypsies showed up and took it. Chicked, cow, horse, pig, whatever died of some disease the Gypsies took it and took care of it... they ate everything. My mom worked as a child care nurse and social worker and saw that her Gypsy clients cooked hedgehogs, crows, all the dead animals that famers disposed of. This was in the 1980s. Pretty wild stuff by today's standards. When the government gave the Gypsies apartments in high rise buildings, they ripped up the wooden floors and burned them, a family kept a pig on the balcony. They also went around town and begged for used clothes. They yelled downstairs that they take any clothes and you could just throw those out the window and they collected them.
When my grandparents died and we wanted to get rid of the huge, handmade duck down duvets and pillows and the pld washing machine we called a phone number we found on a flyer in our mailbox or local newspaper. And a Gypsy family showed up with an old Mercedes car, paid a little money and took everything.
If you put your unwanted, old furniture outside in front of your house Gypsies will show up and take it all or try to sell it to someone on the spot. There are designated decluttering days in my hometown when residents can put out bulky items in the streets, on corners and the city garbage company will collect them. In theory. Because most of the stuff will be rummaged through by the Gypsies. They take what's valuable and leave the rest thrown around, a mess. They smash old television cathode tubes for some metal parts inside. They steal batteries and elecrical cables from level crossing safety equipment, street lights, traffic lights, traffic signs and sell them at junkyards. New bronze sculpture in the park? They will saw it in half and steal it. Oh, you locked your bicycle in front of the supermarket and went in to do your shopping? They will gradly "recycle" your bicycle, too. What they can't steal, they destroy it. As a local policeman phrased it. When there is a burglary, break-in in my town police know if Gypsies did it because they destroy everything. They don't just simply pick the lock like a Hungarian thief would, Gypsies smash the doors off the hinges and smash them to smithereens, they do unreasonable and unnecessary damage. Like the destroy the door frame, too.
Leather-Substance-39@reddit
The Gypsies arrived in Hungary with the Ottoman invaders. They were laborers, blacksmiths, horse thieves and traders, entertainers, basket weavers, woodworkers, did menial labor in Ottoman camps and looted off the bodies of the fallen after battles. They Gypsy population in Hungary retained some of these professions and trades in their family names: Rézműves = copper or brass worker, etcher Lakatos = locksmith Kovács = blacksmith Kolompár = sheet metal worker and tin repairman.
SwimmingFee5066@reddit
Watch this Champions of Sutka
manu144x@reddit
In the US we know what happens with teenage pregnancies, they usually end up bankrupt and poor. It's frowned upon and generally considered a bad thing to happen to you, with repercussions throughout your life. Family gathers together to help you so you don't have to abandon school, and waste your life too early, sometimes your parents adopt the baby as their own, and so on.
Now...
...imagine a culture where you're FORCED into teenage pregnancy. With the whole package: abandoning school and going to work at 16-18 to support your new family.
How can you ever integrate? You inevitably become financially dependent on the family/clan which will control you with "traditions" and you grow old filled with resentment and you'll want to do the same to your kids too.
And the cycle repeats...
kendrickispop@reddit
Only post here that has pointed to the actual problem. The state hasn’t been able or (rather more probably) willing enough to guarantee gypsy children the childhood safety conditions that exist for most other children in that country. It’s just considered a bit taboo in our backwards Balkan societies to intervene at the family level as if family is so sacred even if they force you to marry and have kids
Afraid-Leg-174@reddit
Well it would also be accursed as being an act of cultural genocide.
Remarkable_Set9640@reddit
Romania integrates into gypsy culture
grishack@reddit
I work in public service so i had a lot of contact with gypsies, and its not that simple. Several things are both cause and effect here, for one, they dont want to integrate but its also true that no one is letting them integrate. They are widely condsidered as criminals, and to an extent that is true, but also its true that they dont have much choice because no one wants to employ them specifically because everypne thinks they are criminals. Which, unfortunantley is usualy true. Thats how its allways been through history, just one vicious circle, and now the goverements are practicly forbiding forced education of romani children because it would be genocide, and romani are not educating their children because they think there is no future for them in education, and in a way they are right because no one wants them.
Extension-Detail-258@reddit
We are all aware of the following - if noone including my self can't read my own handwriting, I'm destined to be a doctor - if only I can read my handwriting I'm destined to fail in life - if everyone can read my handwriting I'm destined to do ok in life but I will be taken advantage of all the time
sassycattocorn@reddit
Because of this
HighlanderAlien@reddit
Im proud to say that in slovenia they crossed a line when their violence against civilians resulted in few deaths of innocent people so goverment hit them back with full force. The law will probally fall when it comes to brussels but they were crying and playing victims on tv, on media, everywhere haha, it hurt them hard.
eguipegui@reddit
not only balkans, here in spain the same, and i think in general around the globe... they rise with the concept they are gypsies and gypsies have his own life-style, laws etc. and i know them very close due to my work.
tejanaqkilica@reddit
Gypsies in my hometown, are integrated rather well. They have houses, they work (mostly low skilled jobs, but not all), they're not known to steal or bother others anymore than white people would do it and you never see a gypsy beginning in my hometown (which happens a lot in the rest of Albania).
Positive_End_7568@reddit
https://i.redd.it/e7bbyzmxr2yg1.gif
Ill-Independence-553@reddit
The Balkans is a pretty broad term.
I would say that the Gispies are "best" integrated in Croatia.
There is a small town/village just across of Osijek, where they make s significant portion of inhabitants - Darda.
It's also the best showcase of that what the others already said - people who don't live in the Gipsy part of the village are fully integrated, commute to work to Osijek, etc.
And they are also socially accepted by almost every sane person.
Nonetheless, I have a strange feeling that the well integrated Gipsies simply hate the unintegrated ones.
A lot of them hide their identity, which is kind of sad.
Than, on the other hand, they is a significant Gipsy population in Međimurje, at the border to Slovenia and Hungary.
Most of them live exclusively in their own villages (Parag...) and the integration there is well, poor..
The second most integrated Gipsies would be the Serbian ones, especially in Vojvodina.
I always point Beočin across Novi Sad as the best possible example.
The rest of the Balkans is eh... Sad.
Some of them don't want to integrate, some don't even get a chance because of the prejudices.
A complicated story.
I would really like to see them taking more part in everyday life.
Pinky-Degetel@reddit
I say same as with other situations, like the black community in USA. It's about a period of abuse and segregation that lead to a need to self govern pretty much. Like the italian mafia was for the italian immigrants, so for safety and because the protection under the law of the land didn't applied to them. And in time a certain subculture has formed. It's far more difficult to integrate at that point because you develop on a different path. Kind of like saying why we don't stray from the idea of money or from the idea of ownership and why more think that capitalism is better than anything else and such. It's because it difficult and scary and we're not develop to at least try something else, to be open to it. Many cultures have a strong religious component, why don't they tone that down a bit and be more scientific a and such? Be good for the sake of it and not because you have to otherwise you get punished by some man in the sky. Easier said than done.
tiamath@reddit
They wern't
Karomax01@reddit
They want "to live free" and occupaid your freedom ;). Without laws, social rules only in oppulence, gold and big houses were many rooms remain empty like after construction.
No-Cell-9092@reddit
and when they steal they say :”we are Romanians” :))
Karomax01@reddit
Ya, they think that this "quality" help him. I don't understand how they was in '90s, everywhere in Europe and romanians must have visas and 300euros, plus certify where they are accommodated.
Now they are enetring in USA more than I can immagined. Cretate their own routes thru Mexic.
Maestr0o_@reddit
Especially considering that the Romani, as a people, having absolutely nothing to do with Romanians...
No-Cell-9092@reddit
Mexican Cartel ❌ Interlopi tigani ✅ :))
VisibleReport5008@reddit
Thats a hard question byt I can see why they would integrate in US
solo665and1@reddit
Stealman.
Lonely-Management452@reddit
People who can afford to move to another continent are more wealthy and educated.
Also, racism and discrimination towards them was presumably less than in Europe, so I'm sure that helped.
c0ppo@reddit
So all those Irish people during famine who moved to USA were more wealthy and educated?
Racism, or simply lack of free money from the state that made them have to work to survive?
Lonely-Management452@reddit
Yes? The Irish that moved were more well-off than those that literally died or were too weak to even board a ship, let alone had no spare change to pay for a lengthy sea voyage. They were at least middle class by their standards.
Most countries don't give them "free money". What's the point in these stupid exaggerations?
Apprehensive-Box2481@reddit
the thing is, the rest of us are actually integrating with them
DuctTapeJesus@reddit
They have never integrated anywhere because they dont want to. Even in Scandinavia
Kappa_Bera_0000@reddit
So two generation back these were persecuted people in the balkans and beyond. You could commit crimes against them with repercussion and many crimes were committed against them. Except for stealing their children to give them a Christian upbringing or gang raping their girls there wasn't much attempt to assimilate them. Then in the 60's and 70's everyone developed morality and tried to assimilate them with socialism of all shits. Sometimes it was the western socialism all nice bullshit and sometimes it was the gulag socialism. Results were predictable. After hundreds of years of persecution and a couple generations of socialism they were a little afraid of the majority. Now, they are just lazy thieving phucks with good miusic that stay apart. And quite frankly who cares? Leave them alone and be mindful of your wallet. Maybe it takes them a hundred years to trust again. So what? Hating on Gypsies makes you all appear like senile geriatrics.
Asblackjack@reddit
Mostly racism. What's the point of trying to integrate if whatever you do you are going to face discriminations? Harder to get a job, harder to to find where to live, harder to move in public place,... Basically less safe. Lots of these countries happily sent them to die in the hand of the Nazis during WW2, they were among the firat victims and yet we mostly brush over it. And I know what I am talking about. I am black living there. And they absolutely win the prize of racism. So much that I barely face any comparing to my home country: France.
aferkhov@reddit
Easy, they tend not to live the “traditional lifestyle” in “traditional communities” as much as in Europe, I guess scattered nature of emigration and selection bias helped that
EzSkinzEzWinz@reddit
The fact that people here use the derogatory word for Romani here and they talk about these people like the nazis talked about Jews in the 20th century goes to show why most Romani are not open to trusting people in the Balkans, forming isolated communities that thrive off of little education and strong traditions, tight family connections, and cultural values that reinforce isolation.
It is impossible for many Balkaners to imagine the life of a Romani - being born in a country where you are a second-class citizen, where the majority hate you simply for being born, being born inti poverty that is caused by the same discrimination and lack of education that has haunted your family for generations, close proximity to substance abuse, gambling, theft that is born out of necessity or to numb the pain, etc. Growing up like that, you will likely continue to repeat the cycle.
It shows that people here have never actually had a conversation with a Roma before or have allowed bad experiences to pain an entire historically marginalized and persecuted group. No empathy whatsoever
R3b3llmnt@reddit
We have garbage truck driver in my city ,was driven for 30 years now,and he is Roma and homosexual .
R3b3llmnt@reddit
Homosexuality makes good for Roma people
name2sayMKD@reddit
You cant have Balkan without gypsies.
577564842@reddit
You can totally have gypsies without Balkan.
CapitalScarcity5573@reddit
Are you sure they integrated in America? Didn't they marry their children ith other gypsies? Have parties here only gypisies were invited and stuff like that?
Oh, and in the US they don't expect to be called RRoma or RRomani?
577564842@reddit
According to Wikipedia - yes.
baxulax@reddit
Op is bullshiting
reverber@reddit
I think those in this picture are not Roma, but "Travelers." And those paving and roofing companies were often a scam of some sort.
That said, beat a dog for he first half of its life and see what you end up with.
New-Commission-1166@reddit
As Albanian I don’t remember their knowing they existed in this form until the age of 16. in smaller cities they aren’t there. In big cities they are either begging for money or other small things
mcdan123@reddit
I'm RO, I had a 10th grade pupil (16yo), he excused himself from my class that day... His wife was pregnant and about to give birth... She was 13. He showed me pictures of the baby afterwards. He also had a delivery job. Talk about early starts 🤣
DrejkSR@reddit
Balkans? Try the whole world…
Hot-Charge198@reddit
I mean, you could always do some research for the actual reason, written by a specialist, instead of reading racist remarks from online randoms...
reverber@reddit
This book is a good start.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bury_Me_Standing%3A_The_Gypsies_and_Their_Journey
sol_invictus83@reddit
For centuries experiences such as slavery especially in the Balkans exile and discrimination have shaped the collective unconscious of the community leading to patterns like the outside world is not trustworthy and stay within your own group which in turn makes integration psychologically more difficult.
Several-Zombies6547@reddit
Bullshit, they did not experience slavery in most of the countries they settled in. It's only documented in some parts of present-day Romania.
MinuteMinX@reddit
My great grandma was gypsy and she was a wonderful lady.
AbouAnton@reddit
Because of the colour of their skin. Balkan People are racist to the core.
Objective_Animator52@reddit
You're going to get totally 100% unbiased answers on this subreddit... /s
InfuriatingLeisur081@reddit
Have they ever integrated to elsewhere? I mean you see their cousins even in the outskirts of Idleb of Syria to Antakya of Turkey and even there, because of their non conformity, people maintain their vigilence towards them.
And we're talking about the birthplace of Jabhat al Nusra/HTS a.k.a ISIS from Temu ffs.
dupeni@reddit
Who said they don't
JuggernautWest9909@reddit
cuz they never wanted and no enforcement
Careless-Situation68@reddit
let me explain: because they dont want to
Majestic-Ad7409@reddit
The real question is; are these the same people?
Sunbee_Peanut@reddit
They dont want to. The working part is obviously in your country, the lazy ones are here😖
Axalem@reddit
Generally, too much racism, maybe too much tradition.
There are "romanianized" gypsies, i.e. gypsies which have take Romanian traits and they have been successful in integrating in society, but mostly the fact that not many people want to deal with them due to different values.
PeriodontosisSam@reddit
In Europe you are a filthy stealing and lazy Gypsy. In America you are an American. Thats the difference