Strikes on Tuapse energy facilities could cause environmental disaster, Putin claims
Posted by Practical-Pea-1205@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 134 comments
nikmah@reddit
How Ukraine is ramping up strikes on Russian energy infrastructure and the level of destruction is higher with more powerful explosives it seems and US has cut-off satellites and intelligence to Ukraine for the most part at least.
Europe is probably very much involved in this destruction of Russian infrastructure, drones produced in Europe, capable of carrying more payload and intelligence as well.
Europe has been trying to reverse the narrative, “the threat of Russian attack on Europe” when Europe has become a threat to Russia and basically made itself a legitimate military target for Russia, how much tolerance will Russia have for this European involvement.
Rumour has it that Putin is under pressure within Russia to basically give Ukraine the same treatment that US gave Iran and put an end to this war in Ukraine once and for all. There’s potential for the world to become even crazier than it already is…
SuperKiller94@reddit
So it’s Europe’s fault that Putin invaded Ukraine and is now getting his shit kicked in?
“made itself a legitimate military target” as if Russia needed an excuse for imperialism.
Russia is trying to take over Ukraine. Completely destroying all infrastructure would mean Russia could rule over the ashes. Trump isn’t trying to take over Iran.
Russia will tolerate what it must because it cannot actually do anything to Europe unless it wants to get fucked up. At that point Putin would suffer a coup so that the oligarchs could continue to profit.
nikmah@reddit
No, it’s not Europe’s fault that Russia invaded Ukraine, it’s however Europe’s fault to get actively involved in attacks against Russia.
I’m not entertaining imperialist bs.
Europe, without the US, is in no condition to engage in a conflict with Russia.
loggy_sci@reddit
Russia is literally waging an imperialist war against Ukraine. The cognitive dissonance is shocking.
nikmah@reddit
Cognitive dissonance? Where would the contradiction be?
The war in Ukraine and the war in Iran are connected, Russia and Iran are both just a phase to put China in a weaker position.
Take out the Chinese strategic partners and suppliers and try to separate Russia from China in essence so to speak.
Trump, Hegseth, Rubio & co are actually that stupid that they think they can achieve global hegemony in a multipolar world.
loggy_sci@reddit
You’re literally repeating Russian propaganda as truth. “Russia and Iran are both just a phase” implies that the U.S. started Russia’s imperialist invasion of Ukraine, which it did not. The U.S. did not want Russia to invade or for Russia to start a war in Europe. FOH with these stale Kremlin talking points.
The war in Iran and Russia are connected in that Russia has been supporting Iran in their attempt to exert regional dominance over the ME as part of their counter to KSA and in support of their archaic sectarian squabbling.
Duck_87@reddit
What conflict would that be aside from throwing nukes at each other? Eu would have air superiority in an instant. All major military targets with in russia would be liquidated by european long range missiles. Why exactly would EU need US for that to happen? Russia is weak af that much is clear by now. It's just a corrupt outdated gas station acting like it's an "empire".
nikmah@reddit
Air superiority where exactly? Russia has more than large enough missile stockpile to cripple Europe economically and make Europe dysfunctional and no, Europe would be defenceless with regard to air defences, after surrendering all its air defences to Ukraine, it probably only has the required for “national security” bare minimum of interceptors.
No European fighter jet pilot would dare go anywhere near Russian airspace and in striking distance to Russia and Russia wouldn’t even need its airforce to cripple Europe.
Duck_87@reddit
They can't even cripple Ukrainian economy after 5 year if full out war. Please top saying russia is anything but a big turd with nukes (if the nukes even still work). Maybe they can beat on some corrupt third world country and still fail for 5 years but that's about it. Weak russia is in no way a threat to a region like EU.
nikmah@reddit
Is this a joke or? Are you not aware that Ukraine just borrowed 90-100 billion from the EU and there are media reports suggesting that they need even more. Why would Ukraine need all this loans if their economy isn't crippled?
Duck_87@reddit
Because Ukraine had no economy to begin with and they can't even cripple that xD
imunfair@reddit
If that were true the Ukraine war would be over now, and Russia would have lost. That's the problem with Europe's strategy - they have low production of high tech low quantity missiles that aren't enough to actually stop Russia.
Their stockpiles are basically a month worth of war, so they're a glass cannon - once they blow their load the damage is minimal to the opponent unless one of the nuclear armed states (UK/France) decides they want to escalate to all out nuclear war.
Duck_87@reddit
Europe has no/slow arm production because it's not their ass on the line. Ukraine is just not that important to the EU. Isn't this obvious?
nikmah@reddit
And no, I forgot about the cruise missile thing, Russia has major advantage in air defences, European “subsonic” cruise missiles is relatively easy to deal with, notice how the word “hyper” is missing.
zer1223@reddit
And yet you're going to bat for imperialists
JAMisskeptical@reddit
So Russia cant beat Ukraine itself , but would be able to take on the whole of Europe?
Just out of curiosity what size clown shoes do you wear?
Quick-Exit-5601@reddit
Americans get consistently cooked by European troops in any military exercises. Germany just claimed to have higher production capacity than US. Poland has been upgrading it's military since Crimea invasion and France is able to produce aircraft that, albeit subpar to American tech is more than enough to dominate any air combat Russia would be able to deploy. I didn't even mention Ukrainian capacity in drone production, Nordic countries or UK.
You sure about your last statement comrade?
Poonis5@reddit
It's such a funny cope that even russian military bloggers are complaining. One of them recently posted "Stop asking to fight in full strength. Shut the fuck up! We are already fighting on the limit of our capabilities using everything we have besides nukes!"
nikmah@reddit
United24media and Ukrainska Pravda and all that crap kind of type? Russia obviously has the ability to shift gears and escalate militarily in Ukraine and Putin in fact has been incredibly tolerant and shown incredible patience with the war in Ukraine and Russia has almost always shown restraint from escalation with NATO in this war.
Now, the US is for the most part out of the picture and adorable Europe thinks it can succeed the US in Ukraine, Russia is certainly well aware that Europe is alone in Ukraine and probably wont get much help and I wouldn't be surprised if Russia sends a severe warning to Europe and the West to keep them in check, especially Europe if this escalation on Russian infrastructure continues.
This is the only meaningful thing that Ukraine is capable of doing since they aren't able to do much on the battlefield, act of sabotage on infrastructure and dragging disabled from the streets to the frontlines.
Poonis5@reddit
My native language is Russian and I read Russian patriotic milbloggers.
And my point is that people claiming Russia is not fighting in full strength wear rose-tinted glasses even Russian nationalists would find ridiculous.
Please don't pretend you getting bits of news out of context and not knowing any of two languages used in the war have a better grasp of the situation than we do here.
nikmah@reddit
Are you even allowed to say that with that banner but anyways good for you.
Please shift to another alleged Russian military bloggers because, this sounds absolutely ridiculous, rose-tinted glasses Russian nationlists...what are you on about.
Russia is yet to fully mobilize and I believe it's more about Russia being hesitant to show recklessness and waste their manpower when they don't need to be against Ukrainian military forces that is struggling severely.
MrDemonRush@reddit
Even people who publicly argued for mobilization have stopped now, I can quote Strelkov(ex-FSB, one of the instigators of the "Russian Spring" in Donbass, wanted by ICC due to the Malaysian Boeing incident):
"Mobilization was required in the Spring of 2022, 2023, 2024, and maybe even 2025. Now, mobilization has been catastrophically late. Mobilization in the way the majority of the population sees it won't bring any results.
Time when we could win, stomp the enemy into the ground by sheer infantry mass, has already passed. We had it in 2022, 23, 24. In 2025 it was already a stretch, and now, in 2026, we are out of it.
Now we have drone warfare, where drones can decimate any amount of infantry on any frontline, no matter how wide. The enemy has set up such huge drone and missile productions in Europe and Ukraine, that he manages to hold the line near exclusively with them.
A lot of people and machinery would be destroyed without reaching any results. Time we had has passed.
<...> I have called for mobilization for 4 years. Now, I don't, since it is pointless. Our country doesn't even have sufficient weapons to arm the troops."
Poonis5@reddit
I'm fine, even being in the military. FYI Our most well known nationalists group was founded by Russian speaking people.
About people from far away places who have nothing to do with the war being more optimistic about Russia than people involved.
They are doing a quiet mobilization by forcing conscripts to sign contracts under threats. Another thing they're doing is offering arrested (not jailed) men army service instead of prosecution. Conscripts are now banned from leaving. Starting this spring Belarus blocks escaping conscripts from crossing into EU. Universities have been given quotas to fulfill with contracts signed. A little bit here, a little bit there and 30k/month of losses are replenished.
To drastically mobilize and increase their army size they lack logistics, training facilities, officers and weaponry. This will not happen.
They've been losing their manpower for minors gains for years now. Their main tactic involves sacrificing lots of people. The result is as respected the head of Russian Central Bank Elvira Nabiullina said yesterday: “There has never been such a labor shortage in the history of modern Russia as there is now".
teslawhaleshark@reddit
Atamanism works
weizikeng@reddit
Is this the alt-account of Dmitry Medvedev? He’s always the one suggesting Europe is an active participant that deserves to be nuked.
nikmah@reddit
Yes. Well, it's evident that Europe is very much involved and more so than they have been since they are being so cute thinking they can replace the US in Ukraine. I'm not surprised, patience seems to be running out in Russia with this war in Ukraine and while I'm not sure about nuclear weapons but Russia may well need to give Europe a certain reality check and severe warning and a tactical nuclear strike would certainly send a clear message and prevent the West from ever bothering Russia again, who knows.
nikmah@reddit
My first comment that is removed by reddit or that I'm aware of at least, guess I need to be more careful:D
4latar@reddit
to quote "bomber" harris: "The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."
switch out a few of the names and you've got the exact same situation. russia was certain of its superiority and decided to hit as many civilian targets as possible to try and break ukraine. they thought ukraine would never be able to strike back in a similar way or even hold on for any lengh of time, and now that they've been given a taste of their own medicine they come crying. serves them right
PRC_Spy@reddit
Pretty sure russia has been driving massive environmental destruction in Ukraine since they invaded, so it's doubtful putin's crocodile tears will wash anywhere.
imunfair@reddit
Actually the majority of the environmental destruction has been Ukrainian - Nord Stream was by far the largest environmental catastrophe, but their attempts to attack the Russian oil tanks aren't helping I'm sure.
I have wondered about the impact of all the explosive ordinance Russia uses, since they're ahead in that aspect, and of course the fires it causes, but as far as actually strikes on oil byproducts Ukraine is ahead since Russia is an actual producer and Ukraine is trying to take out enough oil and gas production to financially strangle Russia, not just trying to target logistics.
PRC_Spy@reddit
None of that would never have happened had russia not invaded Ukraine, and the fastest way to make it stop would be if they all marched home. So blame falls squarely on moscow there.
Kelak1@reddit
Ok, but that's clearly not going to happen.
Czart@reddit
If they're unwilling to withdraw then they can suffer the consequences of their invasion.
Oppopity@reddit
"Russia is causing environmental destruction!"
Actually that's mostly coming from Ukraine
"Yeah well they deserve to suffer the consequences!"
Czart@reddit
Yes? Absolutely none of this would've happened if they didn't invade. So you and your buddies don't get to whine about environmental effects of a war moscow started. Or are first order consequences too complex for you?
Oppopity@reddit
The environment affects everyone because we live in it. You don't get to apply environmental damages to one side but not the other.
Czart@reddit
The environmental damage is happening solely because they invaded. NS1 was perfectly fine for a decade, that refinery? Idk probably longer. So again, ONLY reason this is happening is because of muscovite decision to invade.
Oppopity@reddit
Just because you were invaded doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.
MeowdyMeowdyMeow@reddit
Do you think Ukraine is intentionally targeting the environment? They’re trying to make themselves too expensive to invade by striking back at Russia’s wallet. They’re trying to discourage the loss of LIFE of their own citizens at the end of the day.
If you were being invaded, you would also probably consider it a necessary measure, or would you roll over and surrender to the country that treats your people less than human just because the environment might be affected?
So yes, if Russia doesn’t want to play ball they can fuck off back within their own borders.
Oppopity@reddit
I never made any claims about what Ukraine has or hasn't done. Putin has, and this comment chain isn't people saying it isn't true, but rather that they're simply allowed to do so. That's what I'm opposing.
And it would seem you're one of them.
MeowdyMeowdyMeow@reddit
Allowed according to what? International law? It’s pretty much a joke to Russia, why expect Ukraine to care if their adversary doesn’t?
Oppopity@reddit
Do you care?
Czart@reddit
You didn't seem concerned with the impact of iranian strikes on oil fields in ME. Fascinating.
Oppopity@reddit
I only ever said it wasn't surprising
Czart@reddit
Doesn't apply to theocracies i guess?
Oppopity@reddit
When did I say Iran can do whatever they want?
Czart@reddit
Iran bombs oil infrastructure - "not surprising"
Ukraine bombs oil infrastructure - "muuuh environment!11!"
And you didn't have to say anything like that. The fact that you weren't concerned about that sort of impact a month ago, but now that your dear tsar said something, you are, is proof enough that you're nothing more than disingenuous troll.
Oppopity@reddit
Did I ever say I wasn't surprised Ukraine does environmental damage?
Monterenbas@reddit
Was there any environmental destruction before Russia invaded?
Oppopity@reddit
Does it matter?
Are you allowed to do whatever you want just because someone invaded you?
Monterenbas@reddit
Within the rules of international law? Yes.
Oppopity@reddit
Point to me where in international law where it says you're allowed to cause environmental disasters.
PRC_Spy@reddit
Clearly not yet.
So russia is going to have to keep eating the degradation of their environment that they clearly asked for, until it does happen. Meanwhile, putin should stop whining.
imunfair@reddit
That's not how any of this works, not sure why you pro-UA cheerleaders always use the Putins-historical-maps method of assigning blame by picking an arbitrary point in time where all decisions and responsibility rest, rather than attributing decisions to the people who made them.
Yes, Russia decided to start a war, Zelensky decided to continue an unwinnable war, and decided to do everything possible to make it a pyrrhic victory for Russia and for the world. There were lots of other variations of outcomes that Zelensky could have chosen, from immediate capitulation, to fighting a losing but honorable war only using their army and not involving civilians in the devastation, to fighting for a while and then making a deal to limit the damage and prevent Ukraine from ceasing to exist. He's decided to take the maximal "burn it all down" approach, to the detriment of the world at large.
That's on him, not on Russia for starting a war with a novice who makes unpredictable and irrational decisions.
Magicspook@reddit
This is wildly uninformed take, well done on diminishing the already bad reputation of your country's education and populace.
imunfair@reddit
Ah another ~~Canadian~~ "European" tossing out empty US education based ad hominems. I see you bro.
Magicspook@reddit
Lol, I knew US geography education was bad, but Canada is not in Europe.
imunfair@reddit
And that right there is a perfect example of why you're wrong - because even when you don't understand something you have to shoot off your mouth as if it's valuable and informed input. Learn to be quiet, absorb information you didn't know before, rather than rejecting it as someone else being "poorly educated". In your case it seems like it's often due to them knowing something that you don't, and for some reason that offends and annoys you.
Magicspook@reddit
This made my day, thank you for this. Im going to print this on a tile and hang it on my bedroom wall.
In the meantime, I think it is time for grandpa to go to sleep, because he is rambling incoherently again. Good night!
weizikeng@reddit
Damn the logic is insane here. Ukraine can’t win so they should just surrender on the spot. Any resistance beyond that is Ukraine’s fault. Do you even hear yourself?
Would you say the same thing about USA vs Iran too? They thought Iran would instantly capitulate too, and are now a massive headache for Trump, because they also refuse to simply surrender.
Sure Ukraine cannot “win” the war in a conventional sense. No one thinks Ukraine will march onto Moscow. But if they inflict enough pain they’ll be in a better position to negotiate, and that’s the point.
imunfair@reddit
Yup, I also think the US should GTFO Iran because we can't win. Trump is an idiot for starting the conflict in the first place, everyone knew they'd do what they did, the same way everyone knew Russia would plow Ukraine under if they got bogged down, which they've done. Now there are an awful lot of dead Ukrainian men for no reason - even if Zelensky wasn't an intransigent fool and tried to make a deal right now it would be worse terms than before those 400k men died.
ThreeMountaineers@reddit
The logic is of course the opposite - if the Putin admin wasn't so incompetent they would have known they had zero chance to win a three day war against Ukraine, and now there are 300k dead Russians(even if they seemingly focusing on using minorities for expedient ethnic cleansing)
And now they've doomed themselves to become a pariah petro state, dramatically speeding up the process of Russia falling behind the rest of the world into becoming NK 2.0 under an increasingly paranoid geriatric dictator
imunfair@reddit
That logic might track if anyone expected it, but clearly they didn't since your cited "3 day" meme came from the American administration. You just blew apart your own point by trying to shoehorn in tired talking points, congrats.
ThreeMountaineers@reddit
The same American administration that had so deeply infiltrated the Kremlin they knew about the upcoming invasion before most of the Kremlin did? Yeah, sure.
If you weren't completely oblivious to the troop movements during the initial days of the war, it was quite obvious that Putin expected a "special military operation" where they removed the government and installed a puppet state without much ado
imunfair@reddit
Why are you making yourself look silly by trying to lie about publicly available facts? No one expected Zelensky to suicide his country, the US only stepped in to send weapons later once it was clear he was indeed an idiot and could be a useful one.
Doesn't change the fate of Ukraine - there was only a tiny hail mary chance in 2023 and Ukraine botched that offensive by wasting forces in Bakhmut and then timidly assaulting the front with what they had left. Everything before and after has just been us taking advantage of Ukraine to stick our finger in Russia's eye - once the economic regime change attempts failed there was no real chance of saving Ukraine from themselves. Or from Zelensky rather.
PRC_Spy@reddit
That's not how any of this works, not sure why you pro-russia fanboys always ignore the fact that russia signed an undertaking to not invade Ukraine in return for Ukraine giving up the nuclear weapons it held and reneged on that agreement.
The fact is that putin miscalculated and started a war —and cannot win it. If Ukraine wishes a Pyrrhic victory over russia, then they have every right it. Meanwhile, russia can back out any time it wants.
It's all on putin for starting a war against a determined enemy and for badly under-estimating his opponents. And if we want it to stop, then we should be lining up to assist the wronged party.
imunfair@reddit
No one ignores it. Russia violated the agreement and then vetoed any action on it in the security council, and there's nothing Ukraine can do about it. It was a toothless piece of paper with no action required from any of the other signatories beyond discussing it if Ukraine was attacked.
It in no way affects how stupid Zelensky as to fight a losing war and get 400k+ of his own men killed in hopes of making Russia's victory a pyrrhic one, and creating aforementioned global environmental disasters in the process.
He's made it clear that he doesn't care about anyone else - including if his own allies are harmed by his actions. If you have nothing left to give him, he has no use for you. That's why he's been called ungrateful so many times during this war, and rightfully so - the world would be far better off if Russia had just done what the US did in Iran and launched decapitation strikes at the start of the war rather than going in with a soft touch hoping for capitulation.
ChefCurryYumYum@reddit
Why are you lying? There are not 400k war dead, that includes all casualties, i.e. injuries as well. You are all over this thread just lying about the conflict.
imunfair@reddit
Haha, only if you believe Zelensky-style numbers, which are obviously false given how many bodies have been handed over to him compared to the deaths he claims. 100k per year dead Ukrainian soldiers is like the bare minimum possible, so it says a lot that you're appalled by that number.
this_dudeagain@reddit
Man you have really drank the Kool aid.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
American education putting on a great show here, as usual
PRC_Spy@reddit
The mighty have fallen indeed.
It's no wonder that the PRC is running rings around them if this is at all indicative of the standard of thought and discourse in the USA.
Quick-Exit-5601@reddit
I feel I lost IQ reading all that. If nuclear agreements don't mean anything then why America mad that Iran and north Korea don't adhere to theirs?
imunfair@reddit
Calling the Budapest Memorandum a "nuclear agreement" is comical. It was a token gesture to justify Ukraine handing over the USSR nukes, without which no global power was going to let them become an independent state.
NO ONE wanted a corrupt ex-soviet fledgling state with nukes - and I guarantee if they had been able to keep them, some or all of those nukes would have gone "missing" while some night watchman or oligarch walked away with a couple million in their pocket, and Bin Laden sets off a nuke in the middle of Manhattan.
Anyone who thinks Ukraine should have kept nuclear weapons as a new and completely untested state is a lunatic.
Quick-Exit-5601@reddit
And America didn't lose any of it nuclear weapons, right?
imunfair@reddit
The fuck are you talking about? And if this is about Broken Arrow incidents what the hell does it have do with what I said? Pro-UA always acting a fool when they get argued into a corner.
ChefCurryYumYum@reddit
Unwinnable? It's 4 year later and Russia's economy is overheated and frankly reliant on the war now, they are experiencing a manpower crunch and of course as you mention that attacks on their oil infrastructure have been damaging both economically and militarily.
If this war is unwinnable it is unwinnable for Russia, Putin's presidency would not survive a full mobilization.
somethingbrite@reddit
all decisions and responsibility.... lie with the party that invaded a sovereign nation.
BiggussDickkuss@reddit
The biggest by far single event was Destruction of Kakhovska DAM, which was under Russia’s control.
imunfair@reddit
That one was also on Ukraine for shooting it with HIMARS to create the stress fractures that ultimately doomed it. But I'd still say Nord Stream was a far bigger disaster - 450k tons of methane into the atmosphere is a much bigger deal than reflooding a river delta that's mostly unoccupied already thanks to being the front line of the war.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Yeah, stress fractures and not the explosion the Russians set off. Sure mate
imunfair@reddit
Ah we're doing conspiracy theories about divers rigging c4 now, fun.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
You act like blowing up a dam is something a military that's occupying the dam would have difficulty doing.
More of that American education, I'm assuming
imunfair@reddit
You act like you don't know what conspiracy theory means. But yes, continue believing that Russia flooded their own entrenched positions.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
lol, what 'super secret underwater explosives'? What are you talking about? It's not a secret; the seismological data and thermal bloom can't exactly be hidden.
Nor would it have 'cut Russias supply line'; the Ukrainians had already evicted the Russians from the right bank of the Dnipro by this point. Ain't no supply lines to cut.
imunfair@reddit
When it was shot with HIMARS they were still occupying Kherson. When you can't even admit the correct dates for public attacks why would anyone believe your conspiracy theories:
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Okay, but we're talking about when the dam failed, which was... when again?
imunfair@reddit
Chronologically after they shot it with HIMARS, glad you've figured out how time works and how things crack once you've shot them in an attempt to break them. Nice try at deflecting by lying about the HIMARS timing though, there were indeed supply lines to cut when Ukraine was shooting at the dam.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Look, those I was joking about american education when I made those cracks but you have a serious problem with basic reading and comprehension if that's what you think I've said.
imunfair@reddit
Given how frequently you use ad hominems (not as a joke, as you claim) I'm not surprised you can't follow the conversation. Sorry that the facts didn't turn out in your favor, but no one misunderstood you, if anything you misunderstood what we were talking about, which was whether documented HIMARS strikes to test the strength of the dam and threaten Russian logistics were the cause of the dam breaking. Which contrary to your claims, did indeed happen prior to Russia pulling back across the river to avoid being cut off by exactly what happened.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
You don't even know what facts are mate, if you're claiming HIMARS strikes the prior year took down the damn despite, as i mentioned, seismological and thermal evidence that pretty clearly point towards an explosion at the time the dam failed. You're the one going on about 'super secret underwater explosives' and 'conspiracy theories' and pretending that blowing up a dam is some difficult task.
PaoloCalzone@reddit
Methane is quite short-lived as a GHG. I am not sure it sualifies as an environmental disaster, given that it isnfar far below what cows poop produces.
imunfair@reddit
It's the most potent even if it's short lived, and cow farts have long been a cause for debate, with people against meat using it as an argument for why we should eat less. Ukraine blowing up that pipeline single-handedly added more than a tenth of a percent of the global yearly production of methane, in less than a week.
You can also add another 60k tons or so of methane from the LNG ship Ukraine attacked in the med not too long ago. Which puts into perspective how big 450k tons is when it dwarfs a literal tanker ship. These may not seem like a big deal since we can't see the methane or scoop it off our beach, but it's on the same level environmentally as sinking an oil tanker, when it comes to the state of the world as a whole.
PaoloCalzone@reddit
Thank you for confirming it's epsilon compared to any order of magnitude.
imunfair@reddit
Please confirm where you live in the EU so we can sink half a dozen oil tankers on your doorstep and then shrug it off as "epsilon".
PaoloCalzone@reddit
I do and it still is.
BiggussDickkuss@reddit
> on Ukraine for shooting it with HIMARS
that’s BS, HIMARS was barely able to neutralize Kherson bridge, those soviet DAMs were built to survive atomic explosion
Suspicious_Place1270@reddit
it's not like Ukraine wants to cause this damage, I think it should be said that it's russias fault for invading, and therefore Ukraine is simply defending and trying to regain their sovereign territories back by damaging russia
all collateral damage should be pinned to russian accounts, not Ukrainian
Kha_ak@reddit
points at Kherson Dam
asmodraxus@reddit
Which arsehole attacked the Chernobyl containment facility doing serious damage to it? Which moron had their troops dig in around the facility disturbing the radioactive top soil?
FRIENDLY_FBI_AGENT_@reddit
Are you still believing that propganda?
4latar@reddit
chernobyl was literally hit by a drone that lit half the internal layer on fire and took weeks to put out, i've seen the footage.
the effort to slowly and safely disassemble reactor 3 has been set back decades, especially since ukraine can't afford to have it fixed while also funding a war for survival
FRIENDLY_FBI_AGENT_@reddit
No denying that. But, do you have any proof that it was Russian drone and not Ukranian drone?
4latar@reddit
you're wondering if the drone that hit the damaged nuclear reactor in ukraine and slowed down the ukrainian cleanup effort was maybe not fired by russia, the nation invading ukraine and flooding it with long ranged drone?
is this a joke? you cannot really believe that ukraine would just hit their own VERY expensive containment building with a drone. what would they get from this? yet another argument to show russia is dangerous? everyone already knows, and the few people deluded enough not to are too far gone to be swayed by evidence. even if this would have done anything, they could just have crashed it very close and have gotten basically the same benefits for none of the costs
crusadertank@reddit
Do you not remember when Ukraine hit their own market full of civilians with a missile?
Its not like this is the first time something like it has come from Ukraine
"Look how Russia is trying to cause a nuclear disaster that will spread over the EU, send us more stuff to stop them"
4latar@reddit
i'm going to need a source for that claim
which could have been achieved by crashing a drone close by and saying it was intercepted
loggy_sci@reddit
Dudes pushes pro-Russian propaganda on this site likes it’s his job, you’re not going to have an honest discussion with him.
4latar@reddit
this is more for third parties who may not know better
crusadertank@reddit
Sure
It was the 2023 strike on a market in Konstiantynivka
Because people don't care about a near miss? But news that it was his spreads a lot faster and has more impact?
Just look at the strikes near the ZNPP to see this. People care about a direct hit, but not much when it's just around the area
And your argument works in the opposite way too. What benefit would Russia get launching a single drone at this? It increases the anti-Russian sentiment and they get what? Russia gets no benefit from doing it and Ukraine does benefit from the propaganda from it.
But the reality is, it's likely just a typical case of a drone gone off course by EW and this one went in an unlucky path. It's extremely common and I think makes the most sense.
4latar@reddit
so you think that the missile that landed on chernobyl just happened to malfunction and fell there? do you know the odds ?
crusadertank@reddit
It wasn't a missile but a drone that hit the facility.
Drones being affected by jamming and going off course is extremely common.
The idea that a drone can get jammed and just by chance hit the Chernobyl containment is hardly impossible. Not to mention makes way more sense than either side intentionally hitting it
4latar@reddit
yeah a drone, sorry i'm pretty sleep deprived. still, russia has been doing a lot to just damage ukraine as much as possible (like hitting hospitals), so what's more likely? that they just did what they've been know to do from the start, or that a drone malfunctioned and just happened to fall on the containment building ?
crusadertank@reddit
Hospitals have been much of the same thing, many of those hits have been a huge strike on Ukrainian industry and military facilities with a single drone hitting something nearby.
That is not a target but a drone being jammed and going off target.
Are you suggesting that Russia is struggling in the war but still decide to throw a random drone at hospitals or Chernobyl because they want to make themselves look bad and get more support?
It is clearly drones going off target just as Ukrainian drones hitting skyscrapers in Russia are ones that have gone off target
That is the hundreds of drones launched daily by both sides, that at least one every so often goes off and hits something it isn't supposed to
That is hardly unlikely
This isn't how statistics work. Thousands of drones have gone off course but you don't pay attention because they don't hit anything important. You only pay attention if they do hit something important
If a single drone was launched and hit hit Chernobyl you might have a point. But tens of thousands of drones have been fired with thousands going off target. The change that a single one of those thousands hitting something significant isn't that low
Poonis5@reddit
So according to the article the missile failed and fell into a town near the front.
The case with NPP is different because Ukraine is not sending any drones in that direction at all.
crusadertank@reddit
Ukraine does send drones in that direction. They hug the Belarusian border before reaching Russia and then go to hit their targets
And the missile is the exact same situation because I'm saying that I don't think either Russia or Ukraine purposefully targeted it. Just that Ukraine is always quick to blame Russia for something they themselves have done accidentally
imunfair@reddit
You should ask Zelensky, he literally tried to false-flag the ZNPP with his "explosives on the roof" claim that the Russians were going to blow it up. Luckily the media immediately grabbed satellite photos and debunked his claims before the plot could proceed, but it was danger-close to a nuclear incident.
If he'd been smarter and claimed the explosives were somewhere observers couldn't see it would have ended very differently. I suspect the play is the Biden's promise to get involved directly in the war in the event of a nuclear incident. One would think that would mean nuclear weapons specifically, but it seems like Ukraine thinks that damage to nuclear power plants may apply.
I can't think of any other reason they'd try to false-flag their own power plants. And just to be clear I'm not talking about their artillery strikes, drones, etc that have hit the ZNPP - they're obviously targeting the military assets Russia has stored there with those, that's a different situation - although it's silly that they keep lying and saying their attacks are Russia shooting at itself.
FRIENDLY_FBI_AGENT_@reddit
Isn't this literally the same thing pro Ukranians say about Russia bombing the NPP they control? Like Russia keeps bombing themselves?
If you believe Russia can do so, why can't Ukraine. Ukraine has hit their own market with missiles.
Bloodgiant65@reddit
Both of those statements are obviously false.
Yes, obviously the US is the one who blew up the gas pipelines, not Russia, the ones who lost huge amounts of money because of that.
And yes, obviously Ukraine didn’t decide to orchestrate a major drone attack on their own positions.
Suspicious_Place1270@reddit
because the governments are 2 completely different ones and are not following the same operating dogma
FRIENDLY_FBI_AGENT_@reddit
So, Ukraine cannot bomb itself but russia can?
Suspicious_Place1270@reddit
sure can, but won't, because they do nit need a scandal in such a way
FRIENDLY_FBI_AGENT_@reddit
But they have tho. And Actually claim russia bombs itself in npp
Suspicious_Place1270@reddit
did they hit the plant like the russians did in chernobyl?
JAMisskeptical@reddit
Are you still believing that propaganda?
FRIENDLY_FBI_AGENT_@reddit
Are you?
Suspicious_Place1270@reddit
what propaganda? I think you should open your eyes, it was actually hit by russians
FRIENDLY_FBI_AGENT_@reddit
Are there any source confirming it?
Suspicious_Place1270@reddit
read the news
moogoo2@reddit
The fucking photos and video of the hole in the roof and the fire blazing inside after the drone strike.
inokentii@reddit
Aw look russians are eco activists now after they attacked nuclear plants, blew up multiple dams including one in Kakhovka which was one of the biggest reservoirs in Europe, digging up all radioactive shit in Chornobyl exclusion zone, contaminating area in size of Bulgaria with mines and opticfiber, burning down more than 60 thousand hectares of forests, flooding all the on Donbas including nuclear blast site of project klivajh which will contaminate ground waters with radioactive waste, hunting and cooking red book protected animals and so on
Mal_Dun@reddit
Putin is now a woke hippie confirmed
Emu1981@reddit
As opposed to the Russian drone strike on the sarcophagus over the reactor core at Chernobyl that severely damaged it setting the decontamination of the reactor site back years? What about the Russian drone strikes on Ukraine's infrastructure or the dam that they blew up or the nuclear power station that they are using as a shield for their troops? Or the tens of thousands of mines, destroyed vehicles, drone fragments, missile fragments or the hundreds of thousands of body parts that the Russians have left lying around...
Putin bitching about Ukrainian strikes on Russian soil is like a bully crying to his mummy that his victim hit him back and gave him a bloody nose...
Practical-Pea-1205@reddit (OP)
Maybe you shouldn't have started a war then.
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