Okay. Aside from engine reliability, why is International so hated by this community? (Compared to Freightliner)
Posted by GronGrinder@reddit | Truckers | View on Reddit | 31 comments
I just don't get it. I LOVE my company international truck. I was able to try a Freightliner... Hated it. Brace yourself for this sizable list of Freightliner slander:
• The steering wheel was weirdly light, felt like a car a little, not to mention it kinda just looks like a car to begin with.
• Sucks at backing at any angle, violently shaking if you're not perfectly feathering the pedal.
• Honks loudly when your door isn't slammed shut with all your might. Hope it's not late at night.
• Dash looks cheap and the screen looks like it's from a car from 2010.
• Cheap ass sounding, annoying rumblestrip sound when you're too close to a road line.
• Press OK 4 times to activate auto stop/start + needs key in ignition to work. (International I can just walk away and have it idle forever lol).
• Stupid jank ass ladder needed in order to get to second bunk. International has the way up built in, and it's kinda fun to climb up. Would suck if you're over 30 though.
• Absolutely nothing to put stuff on, dine etc. International has two surfaces in the back, although not the greatest. I personally have an external battery mounted on with the built in seat belt harness. Works incredibly well.
• Most Freightliners I've seen have either windows only on the top bunk, or no windows at all. International AFAIK always have 2 on the bottom, 2 on top. The right-side bottom one assists significantly in blind-side backing.
• No seat comfort settings, cause fuck your back I guess. Again, International has 4 or so switches to do all kinds of adjustments to your seat.
• Boring, fake switches and the hazards make noise the whole time. Internationals have silent hazards and switches a large and fun to flip, like I'm in a fucking aircraft. Hell yea.
• All shelves are the same, closed style all around. In an international you have ease of access to multiple shelves above your head.
• Jake brake sounds like a broken fan, unlike International which actually sounds cool and is pretty quiet. I've noticed Freightliners historically have the most atrocious sounding jake brakes I've ever heard.
• No floor lighting, and it's not red either (looks cool asf in my International).
Now with all of that out of the way. Here are my few complaints about my two Internationals I've used.
- Clearly shelf doors fail to stay closed early in the truck's life. Only had one working door in my first truck, current truck the doors are completely removed and replaced with nets.
- Pretty loud, also annoying "haptic" sound when close to one side of the road. Tends to go off even if I'm not on occasion.
- Hitting my head on the shelves in the cab which are a bit too far forward, but I've adjusted to being able to avoid that completely.
Looks like International is just better in most cases, no? I don't think i'd buy one with my own money due to supposed reliability. I'd get a Volvo for an actual true living space.
J0nn_D03@reddit
You need another reason? Lol
Outlaw_Trucker@reddit
I just hate how it wants to argue with every decision I make. Want to nudge the cruise up? Nope! Because there is a car on radar 500 feet ahead doing less than I want to nudge it up to it just flat out refuses. Want to unlock the 5th wheel? Nope, it decides when it wants to make you get out and manually do it. The seats are some of the most uncomfortable I have ever sat in and I hate the storage space or rather lack of. If it was organized better it wouldn't be bad. There's other stuff Im forgetting but I really dislike mine.
GronGrinder@reddit (OP)
The cruise is pretty obnoxious. Lots of attempts to engine brake for people in the exit lane. I would just use the pedal if I wasn't restricted to 63 on that.
I'm on the Welfare Express btw.
JOliverScott@reddit
In terms of why Freightliners seem to be the industry standard fleet truck, that in my opinion goes back to the early 21st century. In the year 2000, international was the most common brand of fleet truck and Freightliners were the red headed step child of truck brands. But then something happened - EPA2007 mandates.
In order to meet the emissions requirements, engine manufacturers had to come up with some way of reducing pollutants in exhaust but the mechanism so to do wasn't prescribed by the regulation, only the target outcome. Most manufacturers opted for filters that use diesel exhaust fluid to capture and bond with pollutants but this affected engine performance and added the additional operating cost of DEF.
International/Navistar had a different idea. They wanted to use an exhaust recirculating type system to re-burn pollutants out of the exhaust. This would avoid adding operating cost to the truck and (in theory at least) it wouldn't have the performance loss. They called it MaxxForce and I think everyone in the industry knows how that turned out. They made a number of excuses for it but in the end they discontinued the engine line because it became apparent that they could never re-burn enough exhaust cases to hit the EPA target reduction PLUS there was a further standard revision in 2013. Drivers hated the low-powered engines and fleets sued International over the false claims and losses suffered from fleets of inoperative trucks.
So during all that drama for International, Freightliner and Volvo gradually gobbled up market share ceded by International's epic miscalculation. Volvo actually had a lot of advancement ahead of Freightliner like their automatic transmission trucks but I think the biggest reason Freightliner pulled out in front is because of their service network - fleets could get their shop staff certified to work on Freightliners under warranty whereas Volvos still had to go back to a dealer for warranty work. So fleets likes keeping their truck work in-house and leaned into Freightliner even if drivers preferred Volvo.
Nowadays you'll see 40% Freightliners in the truck stop, about 30% Volvos, and a fair enough amount of Internationals plus other less common OTR brands. O/Os still like their Petes and KWs but fleets rarely buy these. So if you think it, International could have been the top brand to this day if they didn't get so exotic and tarnished their own reputation plus lost a decade of momentum, because at the turn of the century they WERE the top brand. It was their lead to lose and they lost it big time.
GronGrinder@reddit (OP)
Wow. International lore. Good read. I heard about their whole emissions controversy.
fastnsx21@reddit
Have you ever driven a Pete?
GronGrinder@reddit (OP)
No. I'd like to try though. Some day.
Auquaholic@reddit
Probably not. This is my third.
acs0311@reddit
International used to be a solid truck in the days of the 9200i and 9900i. Then they revamped and went with the ProStar. The Navistar brand has been trash since. Admittedly the LT is more reliable than the ProStar, but it’s not as reliable as the Cascadia. Build quality on both is suspect, but fleets and many drivers care more about reliability and revenue more. Everything you mentioned is personal preference and not brand reliability. It’s the safe as saying you like GM over Ford because GM has a heavier feeling steering.
anxious_polarbear@reddit
Almost all of the things you listed are options that can be changed or programmed differently. A well equipped freighter with a manual transmission solves most of your complaints.
Snookfilet@reddit
I’m in my first week of having a Cascadia after years of multiple LTs. There are things I miss and things I don’t.
Road noise was way worse in the LT and the speakers were way worse. Literally everything squeaks and rattles in those things.
I do miss the rear window for blindsiding.
I liked the heavier handling of the LT. the FL is “flighty.”
I had years of experience outfitting the LT. everything had a place and everything in its place. That said, I do like that the cabinets are closed and stay closed in the FL.
Dash layout is way more driver friendly in the FL. I feel you on the buttons though.
ALL of my LTs had electrical bugs. Ranging from annoying to OOS.
My bunk AC kept the cab way cooler than Opti-Idle.
I think the FL is a better looking truck. The “flying saucer” on the LT sleeper cab looks ridiculous, lol.
Might just be getting used to it, but I felt like I could see better with the LT mirrors.
I much prefer the sound of the Cummins.
-I know some of these are trim level issues, but it’s just what I’ve noticed so far.
Grumpy_Trucker_85@reddit
Everything you listed are, at best, minor annoyances or simply personal preferences. I would rather have a truck that is fairly reliable and is easier to find someone that can repair it if needed than a truck that is going to break down more often and has "fun flippy switches"
GronGrinder@reddit (OP)
I love my flippy switches, man. And honestly, the negatives pile too high for me to ever want to drive a Freightliner. I've only been to a shop once so far in my 6 months.
Check engine light comes and goes. Not my problem, I ain't paying.
RipIt1021@reddit
I've been left on the side of the road by Intertrashinals to never want to touch one again..
KingGT2@reddit
I'm sitting in one right now as a loaner, and literally every electrical thing on the passenger side of the tractor does not work, and the moment I pulled out of the shop with it, the check engine light came on for abs. All of them are pieces of shit. My Freightliner has occasional issues, but nothing like every LT or ProStar I've ever driven.
Cool_Thanks_4934@reddit
I like my international LT. I’ve never broken down in it (knock on wood) you’re right about the doors though. Love the right side window. X-25 engine is good but only 450hp. Not bad for A 13 letter fertilizer spreader. Volvo seems to get the most hate from what I’ve seen.
DoctorZebra@reddit
I hate the internationals that I’ve driven because it feels like driver hostile design. Everything is so close to the driver, but is somehow still a pain in the ass to reach.
edsavage404@reddit
Get in a better specced freightliner, mine has heated and cooled seats and 3 different ways to adjust the back rest
acd2002@reddit
I had two internationals, both were not the best in terms of creature comfort quality or ride quality, also the audio quality sucked, I’m in a KW now and love it, I kinda miss having a big steering wheel but the digital dash is cool and the sound quality out of the speakers is a lot better.
HowlingWolven@reddit
I hated my thirteen letter manure spreaders. They rattled, they leaked, the bunk layout sucked and broke the feet off my nuke box, the seat bottomed out over expansion joints let alone any poorly maintained roads, it was noisy, the view forward sucked, I could go on.
Never had any engine trouble with either. Both had A26 mills.
And I guess that little corner of cab roof was a good place to mag on a v/u mag antenna for ham radio shenaniganry, and under heavy and slow jaking it’d stu…tu…tu.
I love the light steering in my crapcadia. I even sometimes like the LCA motor.
The hill assist in the DT12 is ass. Turn that shit off in the morning and leave it off.
Dash is fine. Does its job. Doesn’t need to have netflix in it. Screen is fine. Haven’t driven the digidash ones yet. New ‘27 has cameras all over it and screens all over it too. They have night vision. It’s aight.
Lane departure warning? Both the intertrashionals also had that. Sound also sucked.
Oh you sweet summer child, the intertrashionals also get optioned with idle reduction.
What do you even need a second bunk for? (though I hear ya on the climbing wall that the internationals and kws have, it can be fun)
Driver, I want you to go into your freightshaker’s bunk, and on the cabinet behind your captain’s seat, look below the big swing door. See that 2” tall black thing? Pull on it. Enjoy.
Your company sucks ass.
Your company sucks ass.
They’re switches. They do the job. They’re all on the can bus. You can pull the shdn oride and put it in in the bunk panel.
Freightliner has the better storage layout ime.
I’d prefer my jakes ran through an open pipe, but everything has emissions kits these days. Freightshaker doesn’t stututu like the A26 powered intys did.
Your company sucks ass.
Voxicles@reddit
Yeah the majority of their complaints are trim level stuff. My ‘23 freightshaker has 4 windows in the sleeper, built in fridge hasn’t died yet. Tv mount is great. I’ve got floor lighting in the sleeper and in the cab. I’ve even got spot lights on both sides that I’ve never used! I replaced the mattress with a 12” memory foam, so I can’t really use the pull out table, but it’s nice that it’s there 😆 The cabinet above even has a closet rod if you want to properly hang up clothes. It turns on a dime. I love my truck.
december151791@reddit
As much as Freightliner sucks, it does have red floor lights and a pull out tray between the two cabinets on the left side of the truck.
aFrothyMix@reddit
Modern Volvo VNL is the most driver friendly truck. IMO. I hated my time in the intertrashional. Current ride is a '25 Freightliner, perfectly serviceable as long as the front shocks aren't shot.
RepresentativeAd4010@reddit
One word…MaxxForce
RebelTvshka@reddit
Biggest complaint? It's bouncy. Second biggest? I bash my head on the overhead. Third? I bash my knee on the stupid cup holder wrap around. But the worst thing about it is the handling, in every aspect.
JOliverScott@reddit
Sounds like you got a base model Cascadia because so many of those issues are addressed with better trim levels. Companies can cheap out and don't care about their drivers' comfort or they can opt for comforts and conveniences that make a truck easy and fun to live in. It's difficult to compare brands without also noting the trim levels in order to know what's standard and what's optional.
One-Mastodon-6334@reddit
No balls on hills and mountains 💀
AtticusDutch@reddit
All the comments lead me to believe the answer to your question is "cause it's trendy"
TapWaterKY@reddit
Company I drive for has 80% Internationals, 20% T680s, all with the X15 and automatic. While the new T680s seem to be a step back from older models as far as rattles and squeaks, it still drives infinitely better than the Internationals. The Internationals, even with new steers and freshly aligned, require constant sawing the wheel and just have an unreasonable amount of slop in the steering. The steering is simultaneously heavy and has no feeling and just feels like you’re suggesting instead of driving.
It also has bizarre rattles and poor fitment on things like the hood, the cheap plywood bed frame, the cheap cabinets where the latches need retightened once a month, the steering wheel comes out of the dash at a 20 degree angle offset, cheap ‘buttons’ on the curtains that fall out and turn into inch long thumb tacks on the floor, poorly fitted headliner that rattles all day.
My favorite shitty feature about International is that if the front camera gets a bit dirty from water spots or something, it’ll either possibly glitch and throw a temporary code that disables all traction control/jake brake/etc. until the truck is restarted (yes, it happened in winter weather and in mountain areas before), or it’ll just endless disable your cruise and throw a ‘radar blocked’ error.
As far as reliability, I didn’t have any problems in the 270,000 miles I spent in one before getting a T680 here, but it just feels egregiously shitty to drive and has endless minor annoyances to piss you off even further
TruckinSammy@reddit
I think the interior has some nice features, but my biggest complaint is the cheap materials.
seanfmcgee@reddit
Sounds like you boss sucks at ordering trucks dude should order better specs.