Leapmotor B05 first drive: China's Golf shows signs of promise
Posted by niftyjack@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 34 comments
Posted by niftyjack@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 34 comments
niftyjack@reddit (OP)
A Golf-sized hatch, 0-60 in 6.7 seconds, 170 kW charging, and a 257 mile EPA range for the equivalent of $28k USD (VAT and import tax removed). Very similar specs to a Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf for a few grand less.
As much as it's a shame we don't get Chinese EVs in the US, it's interesting to see that we do have equivalents in this price bracket—just nobody buys them.
a1usiv@reddit
That's based on UK pricing though, which is seemingly about 2x selling costs in China.
Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit
Yes, the West is a profit center for China. Expecting them to sell cars here for Chinese prices is completely unrealistic.
a1usiv@reddit
I was just trying to point out the established fact that Chinese EVs apparently sell for about half of the UK cost in Australia.
For example, through OP's link, at the bottom, was a linked article for the Denza Z9 GT that stated: "Prices are yet to be confirmed, but this electric car will cost around £100,000 at least. In France, it will be similar. In Australia - £55,000 to £60,000, and in China, about £45,000."
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
The Z9 pricing is all over the place: Australian sites expect 80k AUD (like 45k GBP) somehow. Using a car that's from the same company and actually on sale...
The Leapmotor B10 is 42k AUD/22k GBP/30k USD. Assuming the prediction in the article for the cost of the B05 is true, you'd be looking at roughly 28k USD, or slightly cheaper than a Bolt.
The 27.5% tariff probably has a lot to do with it, and shipping distance the rest.
RandomCheeseCake@reddit
The UK doesn't have a 27.5% that though. Just a flat 10% one on cars outside the agreed UK-EU trade deal.
The price delta between what chinese oem's charge in Australia and the UK is sizeable considering it's the same car with a 10% tarrif + longer shipping cost.
The BYD Atto 3 in Australia is under £22k, yet the same car in the UK starts at £38k. Even accounting for tarrifs and shipping costs the extra price is just purely profit
Although the MSRP is also cosmetic because all these chinese ev's never go for MSRP here, Have seen supposed 30k MSRP ev's being sold for sub £20k brand new straight from dealers
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Ah I misread the US-UK tariff as going the other way, silly me. You're right.
Worth noting that the Atto 3, like any BYD smaller than a Seal, is an utter midmobile, you can get better for cheaper anyhow. IDK why Chinese brands don't go for the throat in the UK like they do here (relatively)
RandomCheeseCake@reddit
They are for PCP/Lease prices, alot of the Chinese cars have a similar MSRP to European/Asian competitors but then are get cheaper to lease than those same cars.
The Jaecoo 7 is now a best seller in the UK despite it being a rebadged crappy chery that sells poorly in china. They know they for now they can get away with higher pricing and bringing their undesirable models to the UK that mainland Chinese market doesn't want. And the Australian market is so much more open and uncompetitive compared to Europe all the Chinese brands can use that market as a staging ground to gauge western preferences.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Yeah we have the same problem: very few of our best-selling models are "new" so to speak. The Shark is new but that's not an EV (yet) and was basically specifically built and modified for us, most of the other best sellers tend to be a few years old. Sometimes that's also just consumer preference: we like the RWD MG 4 but China hates it.
RandomCheeseCake@reddit
Same with the UK.
MG4 Sold really well here but in china it was a total sales failure which shows you competitive the market is over there.
They have a new MG4 in china that's FWD with a improved interior and considerably larger than the outgoing one which is now being sold in the UK alongside the old (now facelifted) MG4 so you have the MG4 urban and MG4.
The MG S5 retails for £28k here but I can go to a dealer and get it for £18k today brand new, absolutely cosmetic MSRP and in that case it's genuinely good value
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
I think this is the core of it: the RWD vs FWD MG4 is a perfect example of that. It's less that they choose to bring older models and more that different things are valued.
From an Australian perspective the new 4 is worse in almost every way: shorter range, less aggressive styling, and of course driving dynamics, all in a package which costs more. I would be shocked if it sells as well as the old model, and MG dealers certainly aren't stocking them like they stocked the old 4 (anecdotally. I drive past one every day). But as you say, Chinese consumers prefer the new one.
Sadly nothing like that here: BYD do fixed price sales and most of the others will do a couple grand off and that is it
RandomCheeseCake@reddit
Weird. Costs less in the UK here
£27K for the old pre-facelift mg4 RWD and its now £30k here with the facelift because they killed the SE model
The MG4 FWD urban is £23,495, but again the MSRP is cosmetic and i could get it for £18k brand new
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202604101430238 mg4 FWD
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202602200095029 MG4 RWD
amazinjoey@reddit
They are subsidized in China to an extent. And also selling at a loss, as most brand there do
throw_me_away3478@reddit
As supposed to the west, where auto companies receive 0 government protection
amazinjoey@reddit
Did you hear me say that? He asked why it's so much cheaper and I gave the answer.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
You’re not allowed to mention Chinese subsidies on this sub, they get super mad at you when you say anything other that “Chinese cars are the best ever”
Option420s@reddit
I think people get annoyed with the constant mention of Chinese subsidies. Every country subsidizes industry they consider important.
Wolfo93@reddit
Sure but the scale is so much different it's not a fair comparison
Option420s@reddit
I don't understand what's interesting about this conversation. They play by different rules and have different outcomes as a result.
AndroidUser37@reddit
That's the interesting part.
Wolfo93@reddit
It's interesting because it affects entire auto industry. Why kid ourselves to the grim reality
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
People mention Chinese subsidies because it’s a relevant point when every tom dick and Harry asks dumb questions “why the US can’t have a car that costs $20,000 has 2,000 HP and charges 10-90% in 8 seconds”
a1usiv@reddit
The fact that Chinese cars sell for almost half the cost in Australia compared to UK suggests that UK pricing is locally inflated for some reason. Idk if it's a profit decision on the Chinese side or due to external factors like EU regulations, but just thought it worth nothing.
amazinjoey@reddit
Bit of both, but on the European side there's also tarrifs based on how much Chinese government subsidies the manufacturering. But also the pricing is low because logistics and how dialed and effecience in they've gotten their productions, there's a reason why manufacturers are scared of china
Also in china it's a race to them bottom, so they are selling their cars there at a loss, even brands like BMW, Volvo,GM, Toyota, Mazda etc all are selling at a loss there. With prices being double other places
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
If Chinese automakers really sell cars in America, it still doesn’t mean affordable. Not only America safety standards are higher, and they need to pass greedy dealerships. Chinese subsidies wouldn’t work because their incentives would come dealership pockets not you customers.
amazinjoey@reddit
The top Chinese brand will meet the safety requirements, so that's not an issue. They are being sold in Europe, which has the same or higher requirements
The dealership network is an issue but doesn't mean they don't partner up or start their own.
bandito-yeet-dorito@reddit
Since the article calls it chinas golf, I wonder if they would use the same strategy as Jetta for USDM. Cheapen the interior, but keep the tech and make it much longer with a trunk.
Onionsteak@reddit
Who is nobody here? They are massively popular outside of the USA
Wolfo93@reddit
Looks blobby and the interior is so devoid of any personality it's soul crushing.
jaaagman@reddit
I wonder if this could potentially make it to Canada under a Stellantis brand (I.e. Dodge or Fiat)
grumpypantaloon@reddit
well they are now starting semi-knockdown build in Hungary to slap that "made in EU" sticker on it, even though there are photos circulating the whole SKD process barely involes removing wheels from a complete car and then mounting the wheels back.
H3rBz@reddit
Doesn't look far off a Mk8 Golf appearance wise. Could be quite popular considering how much Golf GTI's and R's have gone up in price with the Mk8, especially if they make a hot hatch version also.
theSurpuppa@reddit
Is that a laptop tray on the passenger side?
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