Framework Laptop 16 Gets NVIDIA RTX 5070 12 GB Upgrade Module for Eyewatering Price of $1,199
Posted by -protonsandneutrons-@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 235 comments
Beefmytaco@reddit
Yea, only yuppies with more cash than brains will buy that mess.
1200 bucks for a 5070 laptop model just isn't worth it at all. I say people need to stick with trying to find a deal with desktop GPUs.
It took me months, but I managed to recently get a 5090 brand new from HP for $1850 by buying a whole computer for it then selling off the PC to recoup money. The deals are hard to find, but they still pop up from time to time. Patience is key.
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
Genuine question: Why is the common method to bash people with more money than you as "stupid"? By definition, if someone is more successful than you, they're smarter than you, or do you have some excuse you wish to express about how the world isn't fair and how you're the actual smart one and if everyone was like you we would user in the utopia?
Beefmytaco@reddit
Well it certainly seems like your whole comment is a backhanded insult towards me and those that criticize people who spend their money frivolously, and I'm guessing from the tone you took it personally as you're one of those 'individuals'.
To answer your question, it's common because of debt, that's why. Many people buy things on credit without actually having the money for it and then flaunt their purchase like it was a good idea to buy it and they should be congratulated. These people have been made fun of since forever due to their bad money handling behaviors.
Second part is the general populace tends to not like the uber rich anyways, so anytime they flaunt their money, people generally don't like it.
Third part from my personal perspective, I have rich family members and have known plenty of average rich folk. They are all very cheap and pinch every penny, that's why they are rich. They were frugal with their assets and scrutinize every purchase or investment they make, which the people from the first part of this answer do not, hence why it's common for them to be lambasted and ridiculed.
I have the money set aside and can easily afford a 5090 and could easily afford the 3800 it was for the whole pc purchase to get that 5090. I planned around that though to sell the PC it came with along with my old GPU from the 3000 series for 2k and I achieved that goal, hence making my purchase frugal and well thought out as I came $150 below MSRP for a device so sought after that every asshole on the internet has a bot to buy them up the milisecond they're available, and with nvidia halting most production since february, good luck getting a card for less than 3500 bucks, let alone below MSRP which never existed for this card.
I scrutinized every posting for the 5090 and got my amazing deal. Something people who just run off and throw money away at don't do at all, hence why we ridicule them and call them stupid, because IMO it is stupid to pay more than MSRP for a product that's over a year old.
dampflokfreund@reddit
What is this crap? You can get a whole gaming laptop for this price.
77ilham77@reddit
Repairability™ tax, of course. On top of that, you'll get an eWaste® in the form of whatever Graphic Module™ you currently have on.
MobTalon@reddit
Framework needs to focus on getting a recycling program like Fairphone has, allowing customers to sell them their old parts for a lower price (could be half or a third) in order to reduce the eWaste you inevitably get from literally just making use of the "modular" title (upgrading)
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
What's stopping anyone from selling their old parts to anyone who wants to buy it?
MobTalon@reddit
I don't know, did you see anyone say someone's being stopped?
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
Why does it need to be sold back to Framework specifically? That's the point. You're heavily implying if they don't it's just e-waste. It doesn't have to be a false-dichotomy.
MobTalon@reddit
Where am I implying it needs to be sold to Framework specifically?
I said they need create a recycling feature to reduce e-waste.
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
Implies? More like directly stated in plain english.
MobTalon@reddit
And next you're going to explain to me how any of that sentence says or implies "Framework needs to be the sole buyer of used parts"?
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
No. I quite clearly said you heavily implied. It's in the text above. Do I need to quote it again, circle it, bold it and underline it with larger font for you to see it?
MobTalon@reddit
Didn't you just say I didn't imply it and was "directly saying"?
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
Sigh...
You directly said it and I took it as an implication which was a good faith on my part. That good faith is why I said "you heavily implied" leaving room for explanation. Somehow that went over your head. Then you questioned me demanding I tell you where you said it. So I quoted you directly because you're attempting to be a smart ass, and proving my point immediately. Somehow you missed that? The text is clear and readable.
Meanwhile you've still not answered the question because you're hung up on your own irrationality. So I'll ask it again.
Why does it need to be sold back to Framework specifically?
Here is the context for a third time in case you somehow forgot between the previous sentence and this one:
MobTalon@reddit
After all these comments you still haven't answered in just what way did I ever say "it needs to be sold back to Framework specifically"
Does "Framework needs to create a recycling program" somehow mean "I am now currently stating that Framework is the only acceptable entity to whom I, or anyone for that matter, may sell my used parts to"
Get a grip dude, you've read something that wasn't there and continue to do so, and refuse to walk it back.
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
Are those your words, yes or no?
I'm literally asking you why.
Your sophistry is exhausting. Either you know or you don't.
MobTalon@reddit
The issue doesn't lie in the simplicity of any question as much as it lies in "who said that?"
If your actual question was instead "why do they need to create a recycling program?" then the answer is literally in the same comment.
It's to reduce e-waste, and if you want a more complete answer with other ideas, it'd be to increase accessibility. They get their old parts back at heavily discounted prices and their customers will drop 900 for the new card instead of 1200 for example.
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
You did specify Framework. Specificity doesn't need to be be exclaimed by using the word specifically when you're already specific.
I'm specifically specific out my specifics. Give it a rest. Fucks sake...
If you stop acting like you're being attacked, and just engage with the discussion, we could have talked about some other shit like having refurbished first party verification, or maybe a deal with iFixit, maybe they can have a marketplace where we can bid... I was never against the idea. I was just curious, but neverminded now. I'm exhausted with you.
MobTalon@reddit
Your question came off as disingenuous.
You acted like I said Coca Cola should create a recycling plan for Iced Tea cans.
It's a post about Framework releasing a seriously overpriced GPU, in which a lot of people complain about said price. Why would anyone wonder why Framework is mentioned specifically when I say "they should make a recycling program"?
Regardless, if you were really being genuine, you at the very least genuinely stumped me. Sorry.
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
I appreciate that. It wasn't my intention to come off as disingenuous. I was just trying to get ahead of an obvious fallacy, which is, unfortunately, rampant around here and bogs down conversation, which clearly didn't work out. Part of that responsibility is on me. I do get caught up in filtering through the bullshit while trying to find earnest conversation. I think maybe you thought I was one of those people trying to drag you through the mud with a strawman. Irony...
Caffdy@reddit
in this economy?
sturgeon02@reddit
Yes, you can absolutely still get a gaming laptop with a 5070 for a similar price. I just got a model with a 5070ti for $1300
zxyzyxz@reddit
Proof or ban, as those other subs would say
horatiobanz@reddit
Do you guys not have access to deal sites like Slickdeals? I just looked up "5070ti laptop" and found tons of deals that match or beat his $1300 price.
ProfessionalPrincipa@reddit
As far as I can tell most if not all of those deals are open box or "certified" refurbs. It's not really fair to lump customer returns or repaired laptops in with what is new. Buying used is cheaper. What else is new?
horatiobanz@reddit
I have another comment in this thread with 4 recent deals with that one processor and only one was open box.
zxyzyxz@reddit
Where is the other comment? I don't see it in your profile
horatiobanz@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1sygoyt/framework_laptop_16_gets_nvidia_rtx_5070_12_gb/oiv95y3/
zxyzyxz@reddit
I get a message saying the comment doesn't exist anymore, maybe it was deleted by mods maybe due to being auto detected as spam perhaps if it was link heavy, but can you list the stores and laptops out here?
horatiobanz@reddit
Oh weird. Just go over to slickdeals.net and search for "5070ti laptop" and sort by new. Thats all I did, and then looked for laptops under $1300 since that was what OP said he got it for.
Caffdy@reddit
you've gotta tell me where because the cheaper one with a 5070/5070ti I can find is at least $2000
sturgeon02@reddit
Best Buy, they have sales all the time. The model I got (Acer Predator 16s) has some concessions like poor battery life and a lowered TGP, but it suits my needs just fine. When I was shopping around I saw that the Lenovo Legion with the 5070 goes on sale for around that price pretty regularly too.
Caffdy@reddit
of course! all I need to do is to live in the US, how couldn't I thought of that!
No, seriously, even checking the Ebay posts on laptopdeals, most don't even ship to my country, or between import taxes and delivery fees, it's stop being worth it
is-this-a-nick@reddit
What exactly did you think when the prices you were discussing are in USD?
PostsDifferentThings@reddit
You literally said less than $2000
$ is american dollars. what the fuck country did you expect the response to be based on? Bangladesh?
stryakr@reddit
show us
Consistent-Leave7320@reddit
recently i got for 1200 5070 laptop with 32gb ddr5
shableep@reddit
Does that 5070 have 12gb of VRAM?
Consistent-Leave7320@reddit
No unfortunately the 12gb model wasn’t out when I got mine. Ik it does bottleneck but luckily so far one been ok in the games I play.
LAUAR@reddit
With 12GB VRAM?
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit (OP)
For reference:
AMD 7700S 8GB: $350
NVIDIA 5070 8GB: $700
NVIDIA 5070 12GB: $1200
Farados55@reddit
$500 for 4gb of VRAM
bunihe@reddit
I think this gap will decrease once they run out of 2GB GDDR7 and started raising prices for the 8GB version. Sad times.
VodkaHaze@reddit
a whole intel B580 card has 12GB of VRAM and is less than that price...
Farados55@reddit
Yeah but don’t the drivers suck
VodkaHaze@reddit
depends. On linux for display they suck much less than nvidia's. They "just work" because they're mainlined in the kernel source like AMD.
For machine learning it's a bit of a mess, but now it's mainlined into pytorch and for llamacpp you always have vulkan.
F9-0021@reddit
Even Apple would never. Nvidia just keeps sinking to new lows.
Farados55@reddit
lmao WHAT. this is wild. Apple charges that much for $500gb of SSD space lol
F9-0021@reddit
How is that relevant? We're talking about memory prices, and Apple does not charge $500 for 4GB of memory.
Head_of_Lettuce@reddit
It’s relevant because you’re acting like Apple wouldn’t stoop that low. They totally would, that’s just not where they’ve chosen to load up on their margins. They’ve shifted the cost to other parts of the same machine.
996forever@reddit
They would, they just haven't, but I know that they absolutely would, I just can't tell you where.
Farados55@reddit
Well they do charge $200 for 8gb of RAM, what's the VRAM upcharge?
77ilham77@reddit
That's the VRAM. The GPU can use all of that 8GB, on top of the included unified memory.
On Framework, you throw $500 more to get 12GB for your GPU.
On Apple, by throwing $200 more, you can get 24GB unified memory, and the GPU can use 12GB of those, or more.
cdoublejj@reddit
funnily apple did give nvidia the middle finger and started development on the M series chips. so apple would never offer an nvidia, 2 a-holes against each other lol
lucidludic@reddit
Except they actually don’t. The base MacBook Pro has a 1 TB SSD and upgrading to 2 TB costs $400. 8 GB of additional memory costs $200, by the way.
Apple literally sells an entire laptop with 256 GB of storage and 8 GB of RAM for $600, or just $500 with the educational discount.
ExtremeFreedom@reddit
Yet they also have things that are a great value. Apple exists in a weird state where it seems sort of like they are upcharging for equipment that should be targeted more at professionals but then regular people end up buying it just because it's more money so it must be more better.
mrheosuper@reddit
Idk why people downvote you. Apple charges only $400 for 24GB ram.
glizzygobbler247@reddit
Thats just disgusting, the difference is more than what i paid for my desktop 5070(429$)
Arci996@reddit
I agree it's disgusting but you got an amazing price on the 5070 at 429$
glizzygobbler247@reddit
Yep, black friday deal
b-maacc@reddit
MSRP for the desktop 5070 is $550 so $429 is absurdly low.
glizzygobbler247@reddit
Not really, last year it retailed for 480$ and i managed to find a black friday deal
jnf005@reddit
I'm like 90% sure the 12gb is a different die with more core, rop, tmu and memory bandwidth
H3ph43S7Vs@reddit
No, checkout for yourself before spreading fake "I'm like 90% sure" : https://frame.work/fr/en/laptop16?tab=specs
Takes 2 clicks to know it is the exact same thing. They just used the new 3GB dies instead of 2GB. And there are 4 of them. So 12GB total. No other change. Hence why framework can support it without reengineering a board.
jnf005@reddit
Oh, that's my bad, it seems I mixed it up with 5070ti mobile, it's been a while since I look up 50 series mobile chip, i just remembered a 70s card with 192bit bus and 12gb, you are right, should have checked before commenting.
cdoublejj@reddit
in those cases when i do that, i got back and put a strike through font on my post.
jnf005@reddit
Meh, the correcting comment is the only respond, and my comment is in the gutter anyway, it's not like people is gonna misunderstand. Besides, I don't really care much about the downvote.
The-Special-One@reddit
I just tried to configure a 5070 12gb with the hx amd chip, 32 gb ram and 1 tb storage…. Lol.
Who is buying this at that price? It cost more than the 5090 laptop i purchased with more storage, more ram and more vram.
airfryerfuntime@reddit
I don't really understand who's buying these things. There's the option to upgrade, but with the modules costing so much money, it's almost cheaper to just save your money and buy a new high end laptop when the next generation releases.
cdoublejj@reddit
honestly GPUs are high, i remember when a high end GPU was like $350. i guess you could keep buying new laptops assuming you can get at least 4 years out of them with out the hinges breaking.
cdoublejj@reddit
businesses might, i have clients that have budget and if they want a repairable laptop and have work loads that can use the GPU. but, so far none of have needed 12GB of VRAM. the 7700S was/is enough so far.
Friendly-Reserve9067@reddit
Please bro you won't have to throw away the 5 dollar keyboard when you upgrade your laptop man it's sustainable dude just pay please we care about the landfill
newhereok@reddit
Chill man, his disclaimer made sure you shouldn't completely trust it. People can share stuff with disqualifiers on Reddit, but good that you gave the right info.
Plank_With_A_Nail_In@reddit
Its a luxury product in an already expensive market, reddit is constantly surprised that rich people with more money than sense exist.
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
Yeah and being bitter towards those with more than you doesn't convince anyone of anything but your bitterness.
This product is appealing to me because it speaks to the morality I want in products. Repairability, quality, support, upgradability. If you could do it better, you would have. It's us, the "rich", who buy the expensive one, so later you can have the cheaper option. So instead of being bitter towards me, how about you thank me for buying early so you can buy cheaper later.
I'll await your thanks and appology.
aDturlapati@reddit
new copypasta dropped
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
Good. I'm right. You know I'm right. But it doesn't pass the left wing communist vibe check that is 85%+ of Reddit.
996forever@reddit
Luxury would be buying a 5090 laptop (on top of already having a powerful desktop) and upgrading/swapping every generation/whenever it breaks and not this. This is more like paying the price and still not getting the output.
nanonan@reddit
People here generally like the Framework philosophy and devices, hence the coverage, they just also heavily dislike Framework prices.
DNosnibor@reddit
People talk about it a lot on here because it's cool. But I agree the prices are a big barrier. I considered getting one when I bought my last laptop a year and a half ago, but to match the specs of the laptop I did end up getting I would have had to pay like 70% more, which I couldn't justify.
imaginary_num6er@reddit
So RTX 5080 laptop pricing for 5070 performance?
Vb_33@reddit
5080 laptop is a 5070 (desktop) tho afaik
DefactoAle@reddit
And the framework 5070 it's also in a laptop, so 1199$ for a 5060 desktop (with also 12 vs 16 gb of vram)
imaginary_num6er@reddit
Did not know the 5070 (desktop) also came with 16GB VRAM
CapnClutch007@reddit
The die is the same, although it's cut down and has a much lower power limit, so performance is closer to a desktop 5070 than a 5080
Frothar@reddit
and of course at much lower power. The awful laptop naming scheme is just given a pass despite how misleading it is
SpaceBoJangles@reddit
The pricing of the GPU upgrades just makes no sense. The only thing that makes sense is using this as a standalone laptop and then investing in GPU external enclosures utilizing the Oculink. Tbh, that's probably why that model exists as they realized there was never going to be a way to make modular mobile GPU modules
DefactoAle@reddit
Yeah for that price you could get: a framework laptop gpu equivalent to a 5060 or an external desktop 5080...
SpaceBoJangles@reddit
Yeah. Zima sells an external GPU docking station for like $200. You can get a 5070Ti with what’s left over all day.
RandomCheeseCake@reddit
I get theres a premium for the modularity but $1200 is fucking insanity. You can literally buy a whole 5070 laptop for less money than the price of just the gpu alone for this. Even 5070 ti laptops are similar price when on sale
SharkBaitDLS@reddit
The whole benefit of “upgradeable” is completely moot if it’s cheaper to just buy a new laptop for the price of the upgrade. Outside of people who are just being stubborn about taking a stance on their hardware, I genuinely don’t see the point of Framework.
1AMA-CAT-AMA@reddit
That’s basically why every other laptop isn’t upgradable.
StarbeamII@reddit
Thinkpad upgradeability has been getting better the last few gens.
996forever@reddit
Not the most expensive components aka the soc and dgpu.
Due_Young_9344@reddit
Framework is kind of a sham/snake oil
I mean if you just buy a good laptop and keep it for 5-7 years you're good, then recycle it
horatiobanz@reddit
It's always been cheaper to buy new, that was never in question. The only way a Framework style upgrade path would make sense is if a company on the scale of Apple did it, because they could keep component costs very low due to scale. As it is, Framework customers vastly overpay up front and then along every step upgrading and repairing their laptops.
Captain-Griffen@reddit
*if a company like Apple did it and chose not to gouge their captive audience.
GalvenMin@reddit
They likely won't ever go this route, but the value proposition of the new MacBook is insane, all the more so in the current hardware hellscape we're living in. They've become the best option by a mile, at least in a pure "bang for your buck" point of view.
goldcakes@reddit
They have the volume now. They do not have the right folks doing supply chain management. You don't need to be Apple-scale to get far cheaper manufacturing costs to still make healthy margins on what they're selling.
horatiobanz@reddit
Apple wouldn't even bother with modularity and upgradeability if they were going to gouge, because then the sales would be ridiculously low. The reason Framework is gouging their customers is that there are so few of them.
Darkknight1939@reddit
This has always been true of Framework. Well before the current price increases across the industry.
SharkBaitDLS@reddit
Yeah that’s my point. I’ve never understood the value proposition. I get the desire to have an upgradable laptop so you can just swap what you need over the years at a lower cost than constantly rebuying but they’ve never fulfilled that desire, so what’s the point? You’re basically just paying for a worse product to make a philosophical point about how you could’ve saved money instead of actually saving money.
cdoublejj@reddit
well i'm still rocking an M17x R4 from 2013, the high highest MXM GPU i can get that will play ball with the bios is a GTX 1070. if i bought a frame work i probably wouldn't update the GPU for like 4 years. maybe 3.
also on the business the "game" plays a little different with deeper pockets and long running software/legacy software.
fuettli@reddit
So funny to see how people's brain breaks if they can't just explain stuff with money alone.
zdy132@reddit
It's the Starbucks of laptop. They sell you some good vibes, instead of a good valued product.
AbhishMuk@reddit
Nice try, but no. MacBooks are (quite literally) the Starbucks of laptops.
The main point of a Framework is its open nature (eg schematics availability) and repairability.
In a field like consumer electronics, at low volumes like FW, it is unsurprising that their prices are high. The prices aren't high because they want them to be expensive, but because when it costs $$$ on fixed costs even for 1 piece, it still costs $$ across even thousands.
For comparison, Lenovo sells double digit millions everybody quarter. Guess who can negotiate better deals.
Don't buy a FW if you don't like it or can't afford it, that's okay. Right now it's still in its early adopter phase, and folks buying them know they're paying a premium for peace of mind.
goldcakes@reddit
The problem is there is clearly enough demand, their batches sell out super quickly, they are clearly inefficient with their manufacturing. They need to hire a supply chain expert, the demand already exceeds their current JIT strategy which is absurdly expensive at the volumes they're doing.
AbhishMuk@reddit
I don't disagree that they can (and should!) do better wrt supply chains and all. (Btw do you have any reference for their manufacturing being JIT? I wasn't aware of that.)
It's just that the comment I was replying to was saying the laptop isn't good but is only sold because of vibes... which I disagree with.
77ilham77@reddit
So, in other words, the vibe. The "open hardware" vibe. The "repairability" vibe.
AbhishMuk@reddit
Look, I admit I'm not an expert in reparing hardware.
But why don't you take the word of the Greatest Technician that's ever lived on this matter instead?
Just yesterday, he posted this video.
If a guy who's entire career is reparing laptops personally recommends it and uses it as their personal device, please don't mind if I take his word over a random person on the internet.
(And he's not the only guy who earns his living from repairing tech who likes the product. Louis Rossman appreciates them, and he's hardly someone easy to get on your side.)
77ilham77@reddit
Oh of course, sure. Of course they will support "open hardware" and "repairability" vibes. What kind of tech/repair shop that doesn't support such vibes? Even monkeys know that.
I'm not saying they aren't running on vibes. There are all kinds of vibes. And to my eye, Framework is just one of the many that runs on vibes, just like Teenage Engineering. Framework just runs on, among others, "open hardware" and "repairability" vibes. Heck, and it pays off, they got free press from the aforementioned repair shops. When they sell you a GPU upgrade module the cost of an entire fully functioning laptop with said GPU, instead of working on to pull price down so upgrading it makes financially sense for the masses (maybe a more mid entry cheaper GPUs, or do actual replacement program where you get discount by sending in the older module, etc.), don't tell me they don't run on vibes.
(P.S. your youtube link seems broken, apparently some of the characters in the link is in lower case, where it should be upper).
AbhishMuk@reddit
If it walls like a (repairable) duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, duck lovers and duck experts keep it as a duck... at what point does it functionally become a duck?
I'm not sure if was explained it properly but if Andy (the technician - someone who makes money when users can't fix it themselves) is buying a framework on his personal dime and recommending it without any promotion, then either:
Unless I'm mistaken, a cheaper AMD dGPU already exists.
And just a heads up, the framework 16 is their most expensive product. It's not at all** meant to be a mass market product in its current state. The 13" laptop is the size of what many buy, and the 12" is the product they truly want to make affordable.
Folks have been asking for it, and I'm pretty sure FW isn't opposed to it if they can figure out how to do it. Also... there is a market for their refurbished and factory seconds products, and they do "random boxes" too at times for very reasonable prices.
You gotta realize that framework is not willing to go bankrupt today by eating up costs it cannot afford to eat. In the long term in oligopolistic markers like hardware, it's much better for framework to survive 10 years while making a net profile, than to offer things that would make them eat losses.
A simple example - even pre AI/RAM costs shooting, it was cheaper often to DIY the laptop than to buy the built up thing? Why? If it were about making a blind profit, FW could've priced DIY more expensive too. But the option was kept so that slightly more cost sensitive folks could DIY it and save some costs, while those who wanted it "factory stock" also had a way to do it.
Re: vibes -
Riddle me this: if it were truly about vibes/profits, would they sell last gen products at discounts? Apple doesn't drop the cost of any product that's not been updated even if it's old hardware. Why would FW do this, then?
Thanks for the heads up, it should be this video:
https://youtube.com/shorts/feLv8RsLo-4?si=k4unBE9gGkOOtudA
Zarmazarma@reddit
Does the real value of open hardware and repairability go away when you attach the word "vibe" to it, or is that just a dishonest argumentation tactic?
zdy132@reddit
And sometimes people are defensive about their good vibes.
AbhishMuk@reddit
No one's buying Framework for "good vibes".
Look you can have a look at the folks spotted with FWs from the posts on the subreddit (you can try to sort by top of all time to see the same posts I've seen). Folks at maker spaces. Folks at NASA. Engineers, tinkerers, power users.
It's nice to support "nice businesses", but it's not only "good vibes".
If it were primarily vibes (and not competent specs/products), the Fairphone (much older than FW) would be a much bigger hit. System76 and the Pinephone (and their laptop) would be super successful if it were \~good vibes only\~.
kyralfie@reddit
I think the value is there for businesses where time is money and they can stockipile replacement parts and repair computers faster than the fastest onsite service options from other companies would allow them otherwise.
SharkBaitDLS@reddit
Businesses aren’t repairing laptops, they’re just replacing them.
yabucek@reddit
The value isn't there for anyone if a replacement part costs more than a whole new laptop from a competing brand.
It's a product for tech bros who specifically want a framework because their favorite TechTuber sold them on the idea.
cdoublejj@reddit
okay do people think framework is bagging big money on the GPU? i would sooner believe NVIDIA is trying to price frame work out, just like why EVGA shut down GPU division as a middle finger to nvidia.
i know on my MXM GPU laptop a 1070 some years back was still like $600+ or some crazy high price.
is-this-a-nick@reddit
Also, the whole modularity of IO is a bit shit if they force you to waste a huge (relatively) io block for a single USB-C slot.
CommanderArcher@reddit
They have upgradeability, but not cross platform modularity and they likely never will.
horatiobanz@reddit
I mean this is Frameworks business model. Overpriced hardware sold to people who don't do the math on overall value. Get em into a laptop and then use the sunk cost fallacy to upsell them an endless stream of upgrades so they never figure out they dumped 5 grand into an ok laptop. Ffs Framework is selling $1000 i3 powered plastic netbooks with literal netbook quality displays and people are buying them, an overpriced GPU is peanuts compared to that.
ExtremeFreedom@reddit
I think buying and supporting framework is more about the moral choice not the financial value.
LAwLzaWU1A@reddit
I feel like a lot of the "moral superiority" of buying a Framework laptop is not really grounded in reality. I highly question how buying a Framework is morally better than let's say a Lenovo or HP laptop.
If it's about the environmental impact then I feel like Framework might even be worse, because a lot of the discussions I see are about how people will buy new parts for it even though their laptop is just a few years old. New parts, new modules, keeping the laptop current. But in "reduce, reuse, recycle", the most important word is "reduce". From an environmental perspective, the best thing is usually to avoid buying more hardware at all and just keep using the same machine for as long as possible.
People often say the old parts can be reused or resold, but I rarely see much proof that this happens in practice. And even if it can happen, that does not mean those parts have much real value.
For example, someone in the 13 Pro announcement thread talked about getting the newer, larger battery, and when they were told it would also require a new chassis, their response was basically, "Then I'll buy the new chassis too". But what exactly is the reuse or resale value of an old-generation chassis that does not properly support newer parts? That seems like the kind of thing that is far more likely to become waste than to find a meaningful second life.
That is why Framework sometimes feels a bit like greenwashing to me. The real appeal seems to be upgradeability for people who want the latest hardware, while the environmental angle helps make that consumption feel more justified.
According to some articles I found, the average laptop is expected to be used for around 4 to 5 years. I usually do not like leaning too much on anecdotal evidence, but most of my friends and family who are not "into tech" have kept their laptops for longer than that. I also suspect enterprise customers pull that average down quite a bit, since a lot of companies replace laptops on a 3 to 4 year cycle. The average private user may well be keeping theirs longer.
Plenty of people bought M1 MacBooks around 2020, and many of them are still perfectly happy with them today. My point here is that if an average consumer already keeps a laptop for 5 or 6 years, I am not sure how much practical environmental value upgradeability of the Framework laptops really adds.
After 5 or 6 years, it is not necessarily just one component that feels dated. The battery may be worn, the screen may be worse than what is standard now (or scratched up), the webcam may be bad, the speakers may be mediocre or blown, the wireless card may be an old standard, the chassis may be beaten up, and the CPU/GPU efficiency may have moved on quite a bit. At that point, many people may simply feel that replacing the whole laptop makes more sense than upgrading one or two parts and keeping the rest.
And while Framework parts can technically be reused or resold, I am skeptical of how much that helps the average consumer in practice. Reusing an old mainboard as a server, or reselling old modules, is cool, but it requires knowledge, time, interest, and a market for those parts. Most average users probably will not do that. They will just have old laptop parts lying around instead of an old laptop lying around.
ExtremeFreedom@reddit
Well the rest of the industry had been moving toward more and more locked down hardware to the point that you couldn't even fix parts for a current gen devices. I think the bigger win is for people who don't necessarily need it to chase performance but would normally buy a new device after a few years if the bezels are cracked, the keyboard is worn out, and the battery is aging. There are a lot of people that don't want to change devices that often but get pushed to by parts wearing out. I know plenty of non-enthusiasts who hold on to devices for close to 10 years and even then they only really replace it when shit breaks. I think the enthusiast crowd is probably the worst crowd to look at for reducing usage, because they'll just upgrade every year if there is performance to be gained.
The bigger thing I wish they pushed for is business contracts. I'd love to be able to just have frameworks and buy screens, keyboards, etc. to service devices instead dealing with Dell or HP for warranty service or having to replace a device after some damage that with framework I could repair. There have been lots of times where we had an employee who used a device for a year before leaving and then what would normally be a decently in shape device we can't really re-issue that readily because it looks rough/used on the outside so it becomes a loaner or an emergency spare. If I had ready availability to get and replace cosmetic parts from dell I could just fix the parts that look worn and reimage it.
LAwLzaWU1A@reddit
Has it really? Because I feel like you can find plenty of easy to repair laptops from a bunch of different brands. Lenovo (the biggest laptop manufacturer in the world) has a ton of easy to repair laptops, but you can easily find reparaible laptops from a bunch of companies. HP, another really big manufacturer, have also had their more premium laptops as easy to repair. iFixit usually rate the Elitebook like as like 8/10 or 9/10 in reparability. Lenovo often get 9/10 and 10/10. Even the Surface Laptops gets like a 8/10 in reparability. Both HP and Lenovo also publish guides on how to do teardowns and repairs of their laptops. I can't find much about Dell on iFixit but it seems like they are really repairable as well. Here is the service manual for the Latitude 5420. It includes detailed list of every single screw that is used and detailed instructions of how to remove and replace every single major component.
As I said in my post, the average consumer changes laptop like every 5 years or so. By that point there are so many parts of the laptop that probably need upgrading that it is probably not worth just replacing a few parts anyway. The person you are describing who has a 10 year old laptop would not be served well by a Framework either. The modularity and upgradability is not a strength to people who keep their laptop for 10 years. By that point in time they should upgrade everything.
Businesses is a bad idea for Framework to go after. Businesses don't repair and keep things running. They have a scheduled replacement cycle, usually 3-4 years. By that point the laptop is considered used and is replaced. They don't want to spend time and effort disassembling laptops just to try and squeeze some extra life out of it. Especially not if the replacements parts are as expensive as just replacing the entire laptop. It does not make economical sense considering the really high prices of Framework laptops and parts. IT staff is also really expensive, and you don't want to have them spending time trying to do CPR on old hardware.
ExtremeFreedom@reddit
I guess by business, I'm more thinking education where there is far more turnover, lending programs, etc. or smaller businesses where they don't like to replace things unless there is a good reason to. And yes laptops have been getting better recently but it wasn't too long ago that new laptops coming out were massive pita to work on, around the time when the surface came out, you mention lenovo but they were one of the ones that heavily followed the surface with their consumer products and had glued in screens, soldered components, etc. Not that I put much weight in google AI results but in searching for ifixit laptop repairability averages over time the results specifically mention 2012-2022 being a time where laptops were increasingly glued down and harder to repair.
It's just as much time if not more dealing with Dell or HP support at times vs. just changing out a part. Dell latitudes (which are business focused devices) while easy enough to take apart is not as simple as ordering a replacement part or just sending in an email summarizing what's wrong. They make you actively work with support to diagnose the issue even if you are an IT department at a company.
LAwLzaWU1A@reddit
1) Laptops haven't "gotten better recently". They have always been good if you know where to look. I can find 10 year old EliteBooks, Thinkpads and Lattutides that get 9/10 or 10/10 repairability scores on iFixit, just like they do today. It's just that reviewers, for some reason, never bothered to bring repairability up until Framework came along. It is important to not generalize too much here. Some of the consumer stuff have been a pain in the ass to repair and work with, but the business lines have in general had really good repairability. Which makes sense because the brands have an interest in keeping repair costs down, and the repair is often included or sold as an addition to businesses. Companies like Dell and Lenovo save money by making their business laptops easy to repair.
2) Framework is not a good fit for the education market simply because they are too expensive. The repairability angle, at least for a business, is only interesting if it saves money, which it most likely wouldn't do with framework because the spare parts costs as much as an entire Chromebook (in some cases).
80avtechfan@reddit
They moved after Framework started though. I guess we'll never know how much that had to do with it.
LAwLzaWU1A@reddit
Now you are moving the goalpost. They literally said the trend was to lock things down and that they were talking about "current gen" hardware. Now you are saying things have changed in the last 6 years (when framework started).
But you are still wrong because there were plenty of laptops that were easy to repair even before the framework. You probably didn't hear about them because influencer didn't bring any attention to it before framework made it their selling point.
Here is a 4 year old post from me about HP specifically, but the same has applied to Lenovo as well. As you can see in my post I also mention that this has been a thing for years. Far earlier than framework. https://linustechtips.com/topic/1428319-news-about-framework-laptop/?do=findComment&comment=15378164
If you want some specific examples then the EliteBook 840 G3, an older version of the laptop I already highlighted, got a rating of 10/10 for reparability on ifixit. That was released in 2017. 3 years before framework was even founded.
is-this-a-nick@reddit
The moral choice of buying the exact same hardware from the exact same manufacturers as all other laptop makers use?
pwreit2042@reddit
If you want to feel good, pay the difference to a charity than a pro profit organisation. People buying AMD for a "moral" choice and now they don't need consumers so they almost like Intel, you are just a number to them.
horatiobanz@reddit
Yes exactly. It's an ethos thing, not a value thing. It's just that while supporting Frameworks ethos, framework is milking every last cent out of you for supporting their vision.
smission@reddit
The low resolution displays on the new Pro is shocking to me. It's been over a decade since we've had HiDPI displays, they should be standard on anything labelled "Pro".
Thirty_Seventh@reddit
Surface Pro 13: 2880x1920, 13" = 266 PPI
Framework 13 Pro: 2880x1920, 13.5" = 256 PPI
Asus ProArt PX13: 2880x1800, 13.3" = 255 PPI
MacBook Pro 14: 3024x1964, 14.2" = 254 PPI
Dell XPS 14 (2026), Thinkpad Carbon X1 Gen 13, HP Elitebook X G2I 14: 2880x1800, 14" = 243 PPI
smission@reddit
Alright I'm an idiot, and I appreciate all the comparisons.
My last work computer was an iMac Pro and in my head anything with less than 4000 pixels across is not HiDPI - I just wasn't paying attention.
And just when I'd talked myself out of getting the 13 Pro.. ouch my wallet :(
Thirty_Seventh@reddit
Haha yeah, iMac Pro is 5120x2880, 27" for a "mere" 218 PPI.
There are some 4K laptops available, but almost all 16" or bigger. I'm not aware of any at all with more than 4000px. I think those resolutions were easier to find in the past; for example, Dell XPS 13s had a standard 3840x2400 option until 3-4 years ago. There's been more focus on power efficiency recently, and people who really need good screens will plug their laptops into an external monitor anyway.
I guess what really matters is how close you put the screen to your face
monjessenstein@reddit
The framework 13 pro has a 2880x1920 display. A quick google search seems like it's very close to a 14 inch macbook pro in terms of resolution (3024x1964) what would you consider high res?
smission@reddit
I used to use an iMac Pro at work. Now I'm using a Mac Studio + 4k Asus monitor which is a noticeable downgrade.
I like to have my fonts and workspace as small as possible, so that exacerbates things.
peter_seraphin@reddit
They got their MO from Linus
cdoublejj@reddit
okay do people think framework is bagging big money on the GPU? i would sooner believe NVIDIA is trying to price frame work out, just like why EVGA shut down GPU division as a middle finger to nvidia.
ArcadeOptimist@reddit
I can guarantee that isn't framework marking up that price
From-UoM@reddit
Considering 5070Ti with over 2x larger die and 16 GB VRAM are available for less than this module, I highly doubt Nvidia is solely responsible for such a markup
imdrzoidberg@reddit
I love the idea of Framework but the pricing is so outrageous that there's no chance I would ever get one of these.
txdv@reddit
the pricing of the underlying hardware that they have no control over.
mr_tolkien@reddit
They'd have more control over it if they scaled at a reasonable pace and could secure bigger volumes.
They just do extremely niche, always sold-out product instead of focusing on logistics and delivery. They still can't meet the demand despite selling only to EU and US. No China, India, or Japan for a laptops company means they don't even try to serve 80% of the global market, *and they still fail at delivering to that extremely small market*.
They're a youtube company: cool products, makes for great videos, but unable to deliver (which is the actual hard part).
hishnash@reddit
scaling up requires huge amounts of cash. If you want to do a large lunch that ships 100k units in the first week you need to be able to pay for all of those units up front at least 12 months before you get any money back. Also unless your a 1mill+ unit customer your not going t convince a production line to provide surge production so your not going to get 10k units produced a day (like apple) your going to get 2k units made per day (if your luckily) so you need to start final assembly 50 days before your release announcement just to have 100k units ready to ship day one.
mr_tolkien@reddit
Yes, and if in 6 years in you can’t do that for a fifth of the global market, maybe you’re just not very good at it
TamaSGFU@reddit
Careful, you are gonna anger the framework soyboys
hishnash@reddit
6 years in is not much time for a compnay to organically grow to the point were it has the capital to do this.
Even most larger OEMs do not have the capital to do a 100k unit release, what they do instead is release 50 seperate screws to spread the load over time (this also lets them use up radome end of line components.... not and option for a company that wants to provide parts for 7+ years)
IORelay@reddit
They seem pretty happy to just rip off their fans and not expand and push prices down.
hishnash@reddit
they would need a LOT more investors to create the volume needed to reduce margins.
crimsonswallowtail@reddit
You’re thinking in terms of a large business, but Framework is closer to boutique, where they don’t care about serving the entire mass market, only the few whales who will buy their products. Like boutique clothes, the actual quality is not the reason people buy them, but rather the ideas they convey. Would they make more money meeting bigger markets and scaling at a more reasonable pace? Probably. But they also want to jump in on the hype their products are getting now, so they’ll likely keep doing the same strategy.
LAwLzaWU1A@reddit
I can find several laptops that costs \~1300-1400 USD with RTX 5070 graphics cards in them.
If Framework charges basically the same for just the GPU as other companies charge for an entire laptop, including the same GPU, then it is in my opinion a Framework issue.
StickiStickman@reddit
That's nonsense. They're not the only ones buying Nvidia chips.
Somehow other manufacturers can sell a whole laptop with the same GPU for the price of just this module, so they're obviously taking huge margins.
pwreit2042@reddit
get out of business then, they aren't a charity. what's the point buying that mediocre device so you can't upgrade because prices are so high, barely a second hand market because barely are suckers buying the overpriced hardware.
goldcakes@reddit
the problem is there are many good, reasonably repairable (even if not to the extent of framework) laptops that deliver far better value; and often build quality too.
framework is still on a JIT batch-based production model, paying the markups, which are passed along to the customer of course. they really need to hire a great logistics expert
pwreit2042@reddit
I've never liked framework when it came out, it reminds me of Motorola trying to make modular phones. The biggest issue with that was Chinese phones that bought costs down. You don't just pay for the premium but the space and also would you have a new shiny laptop in 3 years than just a new screen. Framework can't survive because the business model is a DOA.
Linux is a far better OS but has 2% of market share for consumers, the people who think it's okay spending a premium on this are far less than the average mindset. You can get amazing deals on Black Friday for Laptops, you have billion dollar companies in a competition to get your money, Framework can't compete. And then once it goes bankrupt , how you going to feel buying a laptop you can't upgrade on the promise of being upgradable LOL. It'll happen, this post is proof of it.
Also this AI is making weaker players in the industry reliant on Semi-conducting equipment go out of business. Far stronger players than Framework will go under. AI will only accelerate
Competitive_Song8491@reddit
This. You can buy 2 5070 laptop's for the same price. Not to mention just the raw hardware like the CPU board + GPU run you more than the normal laptop. Their pricing is truly atrocious. Most startups at their stage would be charging reasonable prices even if it meant being temporarily unprofitable while they scale. But Frameworks seems to focused on short term profits and still haven't scaled despite being 5 years since their first laptop launch.
lintstah1337@reddit
How else would he afford his private jet?
PleaseDontEatMyVRAM@reddit
Lmfao, average Linus hater, flaunts it stupidly and on an unrelated topic.
TheCheckeredCow@reddit
LinusTechTips doesn’t own framework… they’re just an early investor. That’d be like saying that someone who owns a few shares of Apple is in charge of setting the price of an iPhone…
stryakr@reddit
Yeah, fuck linus. /s
atrusfell@reddit
If you insist…
Thotaz@reddit
Who? The CEO of Framework?
Nimbus420i@reddit
Linus tech tips me thinks
zakats@reddit
OP talking out their rear.
Eddytion@reddit
Haha, this is precisely why these types of laptops will never be successful. They trap you, and then they ask for about 80% of the price of a fully-priced laptop with a 5070 graphics card, just for the 5070 card itself.
DefactoAle@reddit
And that is desktop 5080 gpu money spent on the equivalent of a desktop 5060
horatiobanz@reddit
Framework operates on the sunk cost fallacy. They sell you a laptop and then dribble upgrades at you little by little that are vastly overpriced, so you never add up in your head what you've spent total on the laptop.
Method__Man@reddit
I bought a legion 5i with a 5070 for $1200
Taki_Minase@reddit
And they went and bought a MacBook
LAUAR@reddit
Which MacBook has an NVIDIA card with 12GB VRAM?
TechExpert2910@reddit
M5 Pro & M5 Max do beat the laptop 5060 & 5070 at GPU performance.
And you can get them at 48 to 120 gigs of vram. lmao
these can run server grade workloads and local LLMs that even a desktop 5090 can’t due to its limited (in comparison) vram.
and not to mention their CPUs just blow then best and and intel desktop i9s out of the water
DefactoAle@reddit
Tbf those are still not usable for a lot of applications where a Nvidia gpu is required
superkickstart@reddit
They have nice hardware but i don't want to deal with the apple ecosystem and software so that not an option.
Successful_Ad_8219@reddit
Agreed. It's the worst desktop experience and it's locked down because we're not allowed to actually own our hardware...
amdcoc@reddit
Fuck framework for price gouging.
Green0Photon@reddit
Everybody mad at Framework but the reason why it's so expensive has to be because of Nvidia's stupid pricing and/or Nvidia not including VRAM with their chips now so Framework getting mega hit by the shortage.
Also the chip has gonna be more expensive because the bus is wider (and Nvidia is gonna charge you out the ass for that). They can't just add more chips like with CPUs or when they double the size of VRAM chips. (Like 3060 6GB vs 12GB.)
StickiStickman@reddit
Except that makes no sense since you can buy a whole laptop with the GPU for the same price.
smstnitc@reddit
but I don't want the ewaste of a whole new laptop, so now I gotta find someone to buy or take my old laptop? or it sits in a closet or on a shelf taking up space until it's garbage anyway? screw that. If you're not into the mission, then don't buy it.
StickiStickman@reddit
How is a functioning whole laptop more E-waste than some module literally no one is ever gonna use again?
77ilham77@reddit
These Framework sheeple are truly blinded.
smstnitc@reddit
Heh
Homerlncognito@reddit
The bus on the 12GB model isn't wider, it uses 3GB modules instead of 2GB.
c64z86@reddit
It's not just the Nvidia GPU, the whole system of Framework is just too expensive for many to afford.
Phil_Atram@reddit
The jet won't finance itself, buy buy buy
zakats@reddit
I hate that these prices aren't surprising, the market is crap.
DerpSenpai@reddit
Framework pricing sucks dick. Their components are overpriced vs 3-4x because while they are repairable and upgradable, that doesn't bring money, so they put insane prices on these to get more revenue from older framework clients
zakats@reddit
I hate being in the position to defend high pricing, but all the reports seem to indicate that there's very little margin on nvidia GPUs and those reports were before the RAM-pocalypse. I cant disagree with your overall logic though.
DerpSenpai@reddit
This is a laptop 5070, the BOM is 400$-500$ at most. These are 2x margins
EstoyMejor@reddit
The BOM is entirely irrelevant
zakats@reddit
Is it still the case with guaranteed materials supplies at the volumes and frequencies this small of operation would need? Again, I'm very uncomfortable making excuses for companies but I want to argue for consumer interests from a strong position.
t3h@reddit
No, these are above and beyond normal pricing.
floorshitter69@reddit
I wish we could snap on something like a CAMM to to a GPU to choose how much VRAM we want.
But because less than a handful of companies have the technology we instead get royally fucked in the wallet with this pricing ladder BS.
Plank_With_A_Nail_In@reddit
Why does framework get so much coverage on this sub its a tiny part of the market and extremely niche.
ZekeSulastin@reddit
Because they have an admirable mission statement that (usually) plays well to the aggregate of people who hang out in places like this.
siraolo@reddit
Because of Linus Tech Tips. It's the truth.
Beautiful_Ninja@reddit
Welcome to reddit, home of users of niche products. That's pretty much the whole point of subreddits.
If we wanted to discuss hardware that normal people use, this subreddit would be discussing Dell Tower Plus Desktops and Macbook Neo's.
rebelSun25@reddit
This is the FU price. Framework is basically thinking nobody will buy it
Beautiful_Ninja@reddit
Framework sells to 1 group of people, people who want a Framework laptop specifically due to their platform mission.
Nobody who cares about price buys Framework, you can usually buy 2 laptops for the price of a similarly specced Framework laptop.
luuuuuku@reddit
That’s the business model: you pay twice the price to be able to upgrade later.
Please ignore that the upgrades are more expensive than just buying a new (non framework) notebook. But it’s fine because you could repair/upgrade if you pay for it.
From-UoM@reddit
There is no way it costs this. Doubt it's Nvidia as you can get 5070 Ti with a 2x + larger chips and 16 GB VRAM (8 modules) for less than $1000
hishnash@reddit
A large OEM will have signed a large volume mobile GPU order 2 years ago for the 50 series mobile GPUs.
Smaller OEMs (like framework) who are singing a new contract in the last few months have a very different terms.
DerpSenpai@reddit
No, this is frameworks margin at work. Nothing else. They do this shit for every component or do you think a Motherboard with a HX 370 costs 1200$ when there are small Chinese OEM mini PCs for 600$ with these?
Green0Photon@reddit
I think this is actually a 5070Ti on a GB205. Whereas with the 5070 on the GB206, they're almost all 8GB and none are 12GB. Look at the 5070 Mobile list.
Which makes it make more sense why it's so expensive. It's a separate larger more expensive chip. Plus more of the expensive GDDR7. Which Framework has to source themselves instead of via a kit from Nvidia.
If it's actually a 5070, not a 5070Ti, then that's actually news.
Asgardisalie@reddit
No, it's not. It's just base 5070.
Framed-Photo@reddit
Insane prices on framework is just how the whole brand works. I can almost get 2 macbook airs for the price of the new framework 13 pro here in canada, and even the original 13 still costs a fair bit more than the air. And that was BEFORE ram prices skyrocketed.
Repairability is a nice to have, but it is not the most important feature on a laptop for me. If apple gives the neo treatment to their higher end laptops, then those devices won't even be that bad to repair either.
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit (OP)
I was hoping (am hoping?) other manufacturers might adopt Framework's modular laptop GPU design, but it no uptake so far.
I thought it'd be interesting for smaller vendors, like mini PCs, Steam Machine, etc. But everyone seems to have gravitated to eGPU docks or quite small soldered GPUs. And now it makes sense: with so little volume, these must be quite expensive to produce. Much easier to tap into the massive desktop PCIe GPU market, even if you need to worry about PCIe-over-cables, PSUs, docks, controllers, etc.
And no real re-use / upgradability with Framework's GPUs. AFAIK, these special modules cannot be repurposed for desktop use.
hishnash@reddit
There are a few reasons. But the biggest one is that it is not cheap to do. Most OEMs want to save every single cent they can. Time spent on something that is not on the bullet list of specs is generally considered wasted.
Building a base laptop design that you can upgrade for many many years into the future takes care, planning and a lot of self control. Your regular OEM does not operate in a way that would ever be able to offer this as each produce is made by a completely seperate team that abandons the HW design and moves on months if not years before it ships.
Steve_Streza@reddit
The Oculink dev kit will include a dock for the graphics module.
77ilham77@reddit
A dock which essentially converts the module into Oculink device, which then can be only connected to Oculink-capable host, in which the dock came with a module for your Framework 16 in place of the graphic module which gives it an Oculink port.
So essentially, it can only be reused among the Framework 16 ~~walled garden~~ ecosystem, even then only after you ~~consoom more products~~ spend another dime to buy the kit. Or the niche Oculink-capable market.
At least use goddamned Thunderbolt like a regular people for fuck sake. Is not like you ever gonna plug a monster desktop GPU on the damned thing to fully saturate that 128 GT/s.
Or just spend that $1200 on much more newer, capable laptop, then sell or give away your Framework 16 and it would immediately become a usable and productive laptop for someone else from the get go. Not a single cent more than that $1200 (or hell, you could even reduce that if you sell the Framework 16), and zero ewaste introduced since that Framework 16 doesn't magically become ewaste the moment you buy your new $1200 laptop. You cannot, say, buy the $1200 graphic module and give your ~~ewaste PCB with fans~~ old graphic module to your mom, can you? Unless you buy her another Framework 16.
Steve_Streza@reddit
The thing that is very funny about this comment is the way you say "You're still trapped inside the walled garden! Except for all the other devices which support the standard".
Assuming the dev kit works as advertised, objectively, you can reuse the F16 graphics module with non-Framework devices using the Oculink dev kit. This is a fact.
AbhishMuk@reddit
The amount of people in this thread trying to shit on framework is unreal lol
I agree that these prices are bad, but I seriously doubt they want to sell a 5070 for such an expensive price.
OwlProper1145@reddit
Is the 12gb 5070 mobile still GB206 like the 8gb model?
ErektalTrauma@reddit
Yup. They're charging $500 to swap 6 2 GB modules for 6 3 GB modules. Rip off.
Nvidiuh@reddit
I bought my entire laptop for that price. Like, fucking exactly that price.
Brutaka1@reddit
Yea, when was that?
Nvidiuh@reddit
February 19th.
kingwhocares@reddit
Does it only work with Framework 16 and not Framework 12 or 13?
u01728@reddit
This is an expansion bay module, so it can only be installed on the 16.
Underneath the hood the signals going between the mainboard and module are just PCIe iirc, and they're going to sell an oculink dock for modules like this, so in theory you can do a thunderbolt/usb4 to oculink setup if you have a 13 (the 12 does not have thunderbolt) and really want to use a comically overpriced dGPU (you can just buy a desktop GPU and eGPU dock for the money). ~~I guess you can use M.2 to oculink on the 12 but that goes into horribly jank territory~~
kingwhocares@reddit
I thought they had expansion bays on previous models too.
77ilham77@reddit
I think you're thinking about the USB-C "Expansion Card".
The Framework 16 has a bigger "Expansion Bay Module" at the top of the base (near the hinge), where you can plug this graphic module.
The 13 and 12, due to its size, didn't have one.
LickMyKnee@reddit
Investors need another private jet.
77ilham77@reddit
At that price, at least include that Oculink kit, so the old module can be reused without shelling another dime.
Better yet, a Thunderbolt/U dock, so it can be reused immediately with existing Thunderbolt-equipped laptop users, including Framework itself. Without having to use that Oculink module.
HopePupal@reddit
reminder about Nvidia laptop chips: they're not just limited by thermal and power considerations. the desktop version of the 5070 is not the same thing as the laptop version of the 5070. the laptop version has fewer cores and a narrower memory bus. it's much closer to a 5060.
spicesucker@reddit
Yeah it’s not really obvious unless you literally compare specs, but generally a given Nvidia laptop GPU uses the same silicon as a desktop GPU one tier below
(5070 Ti —> 5070, 5070 —> 5060 Ti, etc.)
yoyomanwassup25@reddit
The laptop 5080 and 5090 both use the desktop GB203, but the laptop 5080 performs slightly under a desktop 5070.
X_m7@reddit
To be more specific the "RTX 5070 Mobile" is the same exact chip as the RTX 5060 Ti (GB206, 4608 shaders), just with much lower clockspeeds thanks to the thermal and power constraints so then the performance becomes more like the RTX 5060.
c64z86@reddit
And in a few years when framework has gone under from poor sales, and people wonder why, the ridiculous pricing like this will be the main reason.
GraXXoR@reddit
Taking the absolute piss.
Fuck all AI and greedy corpos.
UnknownCode@reddit
Anyone else remember mxm gpus? Course they were usually locked to whatever vendor but they've always been very very expensive even 15 years ago.
WWWeirdGuy@reddit
If you want to support open source, open standards, pro-consumer, you avoid Nvidia if you can in general. For anyone having decent rigs, maybe this is the final build before a real disruption happens.
burninator34@reddit
I remember thinking the 7700S wasn't cheap. $1200 is just ridiculous.