Why The Hate On the Stage (1, 1+ 2) Terminology?
Posted by Martinprizzle@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 33 comments
I’ve been seeing online that there’s a lot of hate on the terminology used on cars like VW/Audi’s, Subaru’s, BMW’s, even Diesel Trucks.
I don’t understand where the hate comes from. To me it makes perfect sense in these new turbo cars that can get meaningful gains from a simple ECU tune. To me, they’re simple ways to know approximately how much power you should make and the required parts to support that level of power.
Stage 1 is usually just a reflash. Stage 1+ might have some bolt ons, stage 2 usually have more work like an uprated intercooler, maybe some better fueling and upgraded turbos. Stage 3 all that and then some. Same with clutches. The stages are meant to handle the torque of the stage of the tune. I think it makes it so much easier and clearer for the route that you want to go. It makes sense.
Maybe the hate is coming from the older generation that had to work with NA cars and it was much harder to make meaningful power. Maybe it’s just me, but it just makes sense for these types of cars.
DONTuseGoogle@reddit
Direct association with a very young crowd of teenagers who may or may not even own the cars that they are trying to ask which stage you have, using it as some sort of ranking system.
cerberaspeedtwelve@reddit
Can confirm this happened to me. About twenty years ago, I owned a Nissan 200SX at peak Fast and Furious mania. I was giving a lift to a friend of a friend and he demanded to know what stage my car was.
This guy didn't have either a car or a driver's licence. I think he needed to not get worried about stages at this time.
MumpsyDaisy@reddit
Yeah I got an A-tier tune with SS+ tier clutch and some mixed A and S tier boltons. Only D tier tires tho
NecessarySudden@reddit
Looking at speedometer through the window at max indicated speed is more trustworthy if we talk about kids ranking cars lol
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Because it means nothing. Just post your mods and your dyno results.
Specialist-Size9368@reddit
It only has meaning within a community. For a Morgan 3 Wheeler a stage 1 is an air filter and exhaust. Stage 2 is an unlocked ecu and moderate cams. Stage 3 is cams that make it an interference engine.
For each stage you get about the same amount of hp regardless of what brand. There is only 1 cam manufacturer, S&S. Community isn't really big on hp, but stage 1 and 2 help with drive ability and reliability.
For the mondial there is no such thing and the viper has so many ways to power that no one talks about stages.
Astramael@reddit
This straight up isn’t true. It’s not easy and it’s not consistent.
clutchthepearls@reddit
My MK7.5 GTI is Stage 2. If I tell other GTI guys about it, they understand. In that sense, the terminology is fine.
If you walk up to a choppy cammed Camaro and ask what stage they are, you look like an idiot.
The issue for most car guys arises when you know about cars, but you don't know the terminology for every sub group. A GTI Stage 2 may be different mods than Focus ST Stage 2 or Honda Civic Stage 2. Anyone outside of the group for that specific model has no clue what it really means. That's why I default to saying "downpipe, front mount intercooler, and a tune" to anyone I don't know. If you're into cars you understand that.
However there's a lot of car guys out there who go all stupid when they hear anything about stages. Mainly that's because car guys can easily turn into elitist, gatekeeping douches.
steezebuscemi1@reddit
Agreed. With my Polo (also Stage 2), I would only ever refer to that when talking with other Polo people, as they know it is shorthand for exactly what you have said, Downpipe, Intercooler and a Tune", to anyone else I would explain the mods.
Martinprizzle@reddit (OP)
Hey, that’s actually really well put. I didn’t think about it like that. Probably cause I know the stage terms are pretty much entirely for turbo cars like ours. I know that V8 guys are different.
WorkerMotor9174@reddit
It’s stupid and means different things for every person. I’ve seen clowns post “stage 4” and it’s literally downpipes and a tune. These are the same people installing what amounts to a hot air intake who don’t even realize that it’s worse than the factory one because they couldn’t be bothered to do it properly.
Asleep-Use-7336@reddit
honestly the hate makes sense to me. stage 2 at one shop means a downpipe and tune, at another it means full bolt-ons plus fueling. its meaningless without context
rationis@reddit
I don't think you know much about cars and tuning. One of the easieast ways to make big power is with a Foxbody Mustang. It was pretty much cheating to bring one to the drags.
Me and my buddies would have dumped the modern equivilent of $10,000-12,000 into a JRSC, FBO, dyno tuned Si only for some old fart to smoke us with a Foxbody with only $1500 invested into cams, pistons, and tuning. Or they would be extra disrespectful and simply have a 125 shot hooked up for less than $1000.
2 cams for my Prelude were $600 and made 9hp peak. Cams for the 5.0 were $250 and made 30hp. Going into Summit to buy parts for JDM vehicles while in plain view of American parts prices felt like a humiliation ritual.
ThatsNashTea@reddit
INB4 OP argues that “horsepower was measured at the crank in the 60s, so an L71 427 with 435bhp only made 90hp in real world due to drive train losses”.
rationis@reddit
Yeah, and nobody that was building cars in the 60's and 70's is hanging out on reddit either. They're pushing 90 and driving their RV to the grand canyon. The "new" old farts that may still be active in that capacity were playing with IROCs, Foxbodys, GNX's, Cobras, C5s, etc. Cars that were $1500-2000 away from making even tuned Supras and Skylines look slow.
noSSD4me@reddit
I don't hate on it - I just don't use it because it's meaningless due to a lack of centralized system specifically outlining what each "stage" means. It's hard to do because different platforms use different things to get power (NA vs Turbo vs Blower vs Hydrid, etc.). On top of that, different shops use their own "stage" system to describe their upgrade packages. All of it seems too arbitrary too often, so talking "in stages" doesn't make a lot of sense.
Critical-Positive858@reddit
the most annoying guy you ever know is talking about his stages when he aint even own his ride lol
screamingcheese@reddit
There's two kinds of folks that come to my mind that use those terms. Those who are working within a very specific platform and tuning 'schedule,' but they either know what they're doing, or they're aware they don't and are relying on outside expertise to meet their performance goals. Then there's the kids who grabbed a K&N filter at Autozone and a Type R sticker and called their clapped out Cavalier a stage 1 because it sounds cool when they're trash-talking classmates' cars in the high-school parking lot.
I just said goodbye to my e92 335i by the way, so good on you for keeping yours alive. Mine was modded but I'd never find myself using the 'stage' terms. I tried my best to do my homework so if someone asked I'd be much happier explaining what I had changed and why in more specific details, probably while their eyes glazed over and they hoped for me to stop talking or death, whichever occurred first. So, I guess with that in mind, maybe there's the third kind of person who would rather just say as little as possible that would also prevent followup questions?
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Just because it's extremely vague & doesn't really mean anything
simeddit@reddit
Furthering your point, the confusion in his OP shows exactly why it’s such a meaningless convention to begin with. There’s no established hierarchy, and the ones that I’ve seen in involved communities goes against what he’s saying with key differences. For example:
Stage 1: ecu only
Stage 2: downpipe/headers + flash (things like intercoolers and front pipes being optional but relevant)
Stage 3: upgrading the FI unit and/or upgrading the block/internals + all relevant accessories
I feel like a dork just writing this stuff out. The only use it’s ever had, dating all the way back to the vBulletin days, was giving you an idea that someone had done a tune, opened up the restriction points, and/or revised the block/FI systems
hi_im_bored13@reddit
yeah like OP themselves saying "stage 3 all that and then some" made the point for him lol. what in the world is then some? & if you can type that out, type out the rest, why bother w/ stages
Martinprizzle@reddit (OP)
I’ve never heard of a stage 2 intake, that IS dumb.
doug910@reddit
“And then some” is what got me lol
Sea_Adagio_5428@reddit
yeah the problem is when you see "stage 2" but it means completely different things at different shops. like one place calls their basic tune stage 2 while another shop needs full bolt-ons and supporting mods for same stage. it becomes meaningless when there's no standard across industry
Slideways@reddit
You used to hear old guys saying their car had a 3/4 race cam. Same thing.
StrangeSmellz@reddit
It' usually the V8 guys that think a CHATGPT tune is not real hotrodding etc etc and make fun of Stage 1 etc, then you have actual NA 4 banger guys that think their new INJEN cold air intake is stage 1 etc etc.
ChuckoRuckus@reddit
As a V8 guy, the “stage _” is meaningless in a vacuum. For LS, within a single brand like BTR, a Stage 1 truck cam is different from a Stage 1 LS1 which is different from a Stage 1 LS3… and they all fit in a LS. A stage 1 LS3 cam has similar duration to a stage 3-4 truck cam, and the exacts really depends on the cam manufacturer (BTR, TSP, summit, comp, etc).
So when someone says “stage 1 cam”, it’s meaningless. If they say “TSP stage 1 truck cam”, they’re giving the name to an individual product and we know the specs.
For as a ChatGPT tune… After seeing how inaccurate it can be with things in general, I wouldn’t risk it. That sounds like a recipe for fucking your shit up. I’d go to a reputable source rather than something that’s gonna quote whatever rando on the internet.
StrangeSmellz@reddit
You actually thought ppl are doing ChatGPT tunes?
ARavenousChimp@reddit
I'm stage 10 on stage hating terminology.
Martinprizzle@reddit (OP)
Love that for you. Lol
Dinosbacsi@reddit
Bruh, people have been putting turbos and superchargers in their cars for at least half a century now.
Then just say you had an ECU tune. The fuck is a "stage"?
Rabo_McDongleberry@reddit
Besides this post, I've never heard anyone hate on this. I'm not even sure what you're complaining about? Like are you saying people hate the terminology or that turbo cars can be modded via easy shit?
BicycleMage@reddit
I mean, the word “terminology” is in the title. Tons of people who actually know about modifying cars prefer to actually talk about the mods they perform and not some mythical “stages”.