Hey Greeks, does this make you angry?
Posted by RasyonelRumi@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 217 comments
Hey, does the statue of Diogenes in Sinop ever bother you, and if it does, is it because of that kind of symbolic rivalry over cultural heritage?
I mean, he was born in Sinope, which is in modern day Turkey, but at the same time he’s a major figure of ancient Greek philosophy. So does seeing a statue of him there ever feel like someone else is claiming a piece of what you consider your historical and cultural legacy, or is that not really how you see it?
Late_Secret3480@reddit
Of course not.All they know the Greek philosopher.And that phrase he told it yo the Alexander the Great
RasyonelRumi@reddit (OP)
My favorite story is when he trolled Plato with a featherless chicken lol
St_Ascalon@reddit
Mastussopingado@reddit
Plato was a proto fascist, anti democratical narcissist that promoted separation of classes. Inventing the Western Civilization isn't really a great thing for the rest of the world. 🪛🔃him
blJack@reddit
so true, it led to you saying that shit
Mastussopingado@reddit
I annoyed the Plato fanboy I see
One_Artist6770@reddit
It's all a matter of timing. In a world of cynics, I think Diogenes is winning. I personally respect both as idols
Mastussopingado@reddit
No_Challenge8358@reddit
I don't think Aristotle was a big Plato fan
St_Ascalon@reddit
Unlike his teacher he considered the material aspect of the existence more important. But he still respected him.
Greekmon07@reddit
Chad and Plato at the same sentence?
SongsAboutFracking@reddit
Doesn’t his name literally refer to his Chad physique?
random_clone_7567@reddit
Yes. It means Broad shoulders
No_Challenge8358@reddit
Nope, it's because he had a wide sternum and forehead.
Greekmon07@reddit
his physique has nothing to do with his ideology
Raguseo@reddit
Ubermensch vs. Socrates cum bucket
St_Ascalon@reddit
real ubermench vs ancient history annoying influencer
Late_Secret3480@reddit
And I Think he humbled the most famous prostitute in Athens,Laïda
Unlikely-Elk-8316@reddit
And for free of charge...
wintermute86@reddit
HERE IS YOUR MAN throws a featherless biped
8thmiracle@reddit
Can you imagine this guy with a Twitter account. Pure menace
yerdads@reddit
One time Diogenes took a shit in the middle of the agora (Athens market). Another time he jerked off in the middle of the Agora saying wish I could fulfill all my needs this easily.
St_Ascalon@reddit
I've never seen a turk claim he is turk or not part of greek culture lol. At the most, we see them as a part of Anatolian history.
Anyway it is really ridiculous. As a someone into philosophy, many characters from ancient Greek are figures who deserve to be valued regardless of your culture and religion. they are part of canon of humankind
Dangerous-Economy-88@reddit
Only one I know of is turks claiming santa claus was turkish lol
BoratSagdieev@reddit
We greeks also claim he is from turkey (cappadokia)
KingMitsubishi@reddit
I think that Santa Claus and Αη Βασίλης are two completely different cultural figures.
scanfash@reddit
Santa Clause (Saint Nicolaus) is Saint Nikolaos it is just from the Spanish name for him it’s the same origin/Saint, but ofc the modern version/pop culture one is a “spin” on him but many cultures have Saint Nikolas giving gifts on Saint Nikolas day (usually 6th December) which is where Santa Clause and gift giving come from
Relative_Chip_4048@reddit
I agree but let me clarify that he was Greek and he was from one of the Greek cities of Anatolia. (Not all Anatolia was Greek , but his city Sinope was Greek).
fat-wombat@reddit
NoItem5389@reddit
As long as the Turks acknowledge their Greek history/ancestry what is the issue?
gorat@reddit
Diogenoglu Sinopci original Turk ancestor baba? (just joking I mean I don't see anyone claiming anything weird there so why get offended)
liberalskateboardist@reddit
alexander the great 2.0 will annex this area dont worry
gregorian_the_great@reddit
I believe that Diogenes said "αποσκοτισον με" wich translates roughly to " give me light " after Alexander the great said " what i can do for you" so Diogenes showed that Alexander , even as an emperor, couldn't do anything more then leave him alone. Contex matters
LeopoldZoup@reddit
??? Sinope was Greek in his time so why wouldn't he have a statue there
Medium_Fly_5461@reddit
It kinda goes against his whole philosophy
eucalyptus-d@reddit
The only reason to object tbh. I think it would be much more appropriate if it was just the barrel.
funstufffff@reddit
Yeah just a barrel would be great but probably even that would piss him off.
Mastussopingado@reddit
Or insulting Alexander blocking his sun, even if it didn't happen
BlokZNCR@reddit
Sinop/Sinope has a meaning in Greek?
Gimmebiblio@reddit
In greek mythology, Sinopi was a nymph, daughter of the god Asopos.
Motor-Beginning3613@reddit
God forgive me for agreeing with a Gr*ek
Conscious_Eye4415@reddit
One wonders if this public display is merely a compensation for the neglect you endure at home.
Motor-Beginning3613@reddit
cosecantgames@reddit
type shit
Gimmebiblio@reddit
?
BlokZNCR@reddit
thanks
Conscious-Paper3543@reddit
I’m not greek yet it’s hard to swallow this side of Greece got lost when it’s been the pacemaker of knowledge and science back then
cyb3rg0d5@reddit
People get offended for the stupidest shit these days. Not even sure why that question was asked in the first place 🙄
FortisPatria@reddit
its fucking offensive that statue is so bad😭
Ill-Inspector6149@reddit
Its like we had a statue of Kemal in Thessaloniki . They would be more than happy. So do we for diogenes ....
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
This is "Tesla is a Croat because he was born on modern Croatian territory' argument all over again
Just even more stupid because this is about a well established pantheon/religion/cultural heritage, and not even about a real life person
Also, what exactly even is the controversy? Just because Turks made him a statue and they see him as part of that towns/villages/whatever it is, cultural heritage, doesn't mean they are saying that he was a Turk
Careful-Evening-5187@reddit
Exactly!
....and everyone knows Tesla was Albanian.
Bargothball@reddit
Wrong. His real name was Nihat Tahsinoğlu, the son of Muhittin Tahsin Bey, who was exiled to Croatia with his family by Sultan Abdulmecit for speaking out of turn, and he was 100% Turkish.
Elegant-Method902@reddit
Nikolaos Teslas was Greek. It's about time we claimed someone. Also dibs on Shakespeare. Real name Gilelmos Chespalos from Corfu.
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
Was?
Psh, you actually believe Tesla died!?
egny@reddit
Except there is no claim that Diogenes was Turkish.
Actually there is no mention of his origin, but that's another matter.
Gimmebiblio@reddit
Diogenes wasn't a real life person? 🤔
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
If he was, that's news to me! And in that case, thanks, I wanted to brush up on history and most popular pantheons for a while, might as well start from Greece!
Gimmebiblio@reddit
Are you conflating Diogenes with Dionysus?
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
.....
Yes
Gimmebiblio@reddit
Thought so and thank god, because some years ago I came across a neighbour online, that laughed at Greeks for believing that Leonidas and the battle of Thermopylae were actually real and not myths!! Can you imagine?...
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
Leonidas? You surely meant Leonardo Da Vinci!
Gimmebiblio@reddit
Now that you mention it... 🤔
BamBumKiofte23@reddit
Oh boy. Don't worry, I have said dumber things than that and survived lol.
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
Hahahahahha the most idiotic thing here is that I was a history buff as well as a philosophy connoisseur, for many years :'D
Greek names are something when localized for English lol
Evening-Gur5087@reddit
r/GreekPhilosophersAreFake
Separate-Date-6518@reddit
There's literally zero reason to be angry at this. It's wholesome I'd say.
dancesquared@reddit
Except the poor grammar in the English translation.
Historical_Cry_4900@reddit
I think that adds to the wholesomeness
Separate-Date-6518@reddit
Yeah just noticed it
AcceptableAir2536@reddit
We 🇰🇷always support 🇹🇷🫡
ZedGenius@reddit
Ι think it would only make us angry if it was vandalised
UnhappyAddition7281@reddit
You do realise that about half of Ancient Greek historical figures were not from places that are Greek territory today? Not just Anatolia but sicily, italy, egypt, levant…
Mastussopingado@reddit
What an elaborate rage baiting
Inevitable_Ad_6265@reddit
worst question of all time?!?
X-A-S-S@reddit
? Turks also have a large % greek dna why are you typing your post like Diogenes is alien to Turks lmao
MeetingImpressive689@reddit
He would be offended, not us. When teased because he was exiled by the Sinopeans he replied to the Athenians " I condemned them to live there".
Nikoschalkis1@reddit
Im indifferent to it, he was born there afterall. But using Turkish for his quote instead of ancient greek or modern is a bit tacky idk.
sudokuboi@reddit
I’m offended he isn’t holding a plucked chicken
boardsteak@reddit
Not angry. Content that Turkey accepts and commemorates the Greek history and heritage of those lands.
Candice_Chad@reddit
Would he care? That's the question u should be asking and no he wouldn't. Tho I so believe u would go vandalize it...
8elly8utton@reddit
Why is Diogenes hiding a midget Diogenes in the barrel?
TechnoKhagan@reddit
Sinope was never Greek, it was under Hellenistic influence. Not the same thing.
Gimmebiblio@reddit
So what's the difference?
egny@reddit
Just making a guess, but the claim may perhaps be that the residents were not majority Greek, but some Greek settlers created a colony called Sinope. Another population called the Colchians (related to modern Laz people) are supposed to have settled there too. I don't know who came first.
Somewhat like the Ptolemaic Kingdom in Egypt. Not Greek entirely, but Hellenized.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
Even if that's true, since when do you need something to have an ethnic Greek majority for it to be considered Greek? Don't modern Turks mainly descend from local Byzantines and Balkaners? They aren't majority Turkic either, but Turkified, but of course I wouldn't deny their identity based on that.
Btw, the Ptolemaic Kingdom is different. It was ruled by Greeks, but the majority of the people didn't even have the Greek identity. It was only partially hellenized, mainly when it came to elites.
egny@reddit
That's why I was pondering whether that was what the poster above intended. There were pre-Hellenic people there, but that does not mean Sinope was not founded by Greek settlers. Or it might be that a small settlement was there and was enlarged into the colony of Sinope, etc. Gemini's summary (didn't check the cited source) claims pre-Hellenic people were Hellenized or moved out, so the colony seems entirely Hellenic/Hellenized.
Since that other poster never clarified, it's kind of a waste of time if there was a point worth discussing.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
The point of the poster is that the majority of the people of Sinope weren't originally Greek, and therefore Sinope wasn't Greek either. Sure, there were people living in the area, and after the Greeks built the city, they probably joined and became Hellenized. But this happened in every single colony ever. It doesn't mean the city wasn't Greek. Just like the blending of populations in Anatolia doesn't mean its people aren't Turks.
egny@reddit
I suppose we can be more discriminating. Some colonies were established next to other populations/settlements and were therefore Greek from the start while others may have become Greek over time.
For colonies like Byzantium, Masilla (present day Marseille) or Syrakousai (Syracuse), the history is more clear. They were established as Greek colonies and they were definitely Greek at the time.
For Sinope, apparently Herodotus says Cimmerians were settled on the same peninsula. Here I believe it makes sense to consider what it takes to be considered Greek. Since Herodotus apparently also mentions that settlers from Miletus established the colony at two separate points in time, I would deduce that there was significant reshaping and not simply conquest of a city with little or no impact on it. Then, Sinope should be considered a Greek colony too.
In much later eras when colonizers were usually a tiny minority compared to the local populations, it became much harder for cities to truly carry the identity of their colonizer unlike cities established by the colonizers. Madras and Calcutta (Kolkata) were British cities during the colonial era while Delhi could not really be considered British.
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
Even with colonies like Byzantium, Masallia and Syrakusai there was a native population there that joined over time. No colony was built in a vacuum. In fact, in Massalia there is also a local tribe mentioned, the Segobrigii. Im Syracuse there were the Seculi, and in Byzantion the Thracians. For sure all these people mixed with Greeks and most likely outnumbered them. But these cities still had Greek foundations.
I don't see why we should discriminate. These weren't hellenised cities like, for example, Gordion. They were Greek from the start and they remained Greek in identity, unlike the British colonies which always had a local identity.
egny@reddit
I understand that those colonies were established not where pre-existing settlements were but essentially near them. The same is claimed for Alexandria in Egypt. A few people probably already lived where the colonies were established but not within a significant settlement, at least compared with the new colony or city. That was possibly a difference for Sinope if Herodotus had it right. Obviously whether on a previous settlement or not Sinope was or became Greek given it went on to lead to further Greek colonies in the region.
I picked Madras and Calcutta as examples because they were established where only villages existed. There was a tribe settled in Manhattan, but NYC's considered to be established by the Dutch even though it became English and then American. In many other cities, there was a local identity which wasn't particularly affected by the colonialists.
Certainly. These Greek colonies I've named became French, Italian and Turkish over time. People and/or identities come and go, leaving their marks.
narisha_dogho@reddit
You do realize that Greece is not and never was an official name, right? The name of our country is Hellenic Republic. There is some historical reasons as to why it has remained and it has to do with the Romans. So, anything Hellenic is in fact Greek.
Vaisiamarrr@reddit
Do you actually believe this cope or you’re just baiting?
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
It was literally a Greek colony established by settlers from Miletus.
LaVeriteEstDansLeVin@reddit
Bruh
τρικυμία εν κρανίω
SnoopCheesus@reddit
If it's true then... what of it?
a11i9at0r@reddit
it actually offends islamist/nationalist turks.
BurgurluGenc031@reddit
Bro as a guy from near Sinop....Wtf man like city name is literally Sinop/Sinope which is a greek mythology character,city itself was important at the times of Byzantine. No one claims the dude in the statue or similar things is a turk. Stop ragebait post i tired of it.
ramanthan7313@reddit
Stupidity and hatred drive everyone crazy!
absolute_philistine@reddit
Not at all.
ant_gav@reddit
Nah we are not that stupid. The only problem with the statue is that it's not of a good taste. Otherwise it's cool
portablewiseman@reddit
All of the Mediterranean coast of Turkey, and well inland, from Antioch to the Hellespont, was Greek for hundreds of years, Türkiye came much later. This was a Greek place.
Old_Resident8050@reddit
Basically the whole lot of anatolia was Byzantine for better or for worse
Comfortable_Image106@reddit
the questions I see in this sub gets more and more stupid every day.
Memir_sultanCug@reddit
this sub is the pinnacle of the dead internet theory
Free_Caterpillar_223@reddit
Artistically, absolutely. It's not even ancient standards good.
Happy-Hour88@reddit
Does it make you angry that the father of your nation was an Albanian born in a Greek city?
Special-Transition77@reddit
thessalonika wasn't Greek at the time nor was Attaturk Albanian
Medium_Fly_5461@reddit
Not angry but it seems like whoever built this statue missed the entire point of his philosophy
Medium_Fly_5461@reddit
Not angry but it does feel like whoever set the statue up missed the point of his entire philosophy
LenaLena93@reddit
It must be exhausting for Greeks to deal with Turks on a daily basis lol.
Abigail_Blyg@reddit
Life must be exhausting if as a Greek you think you have to deal with Turks on a daily basis.
The thing is, they don’t. Greeks and Turks don’t think about eachother nearly as much as people in this sub would like them to do so or think them to do so.
LenaLena93@reddit
But people in this sub only think that way because of the amount of posts made by (mostly) Turkish people that are directed at Greeks.
Like, what are we supposed to think.
Substantial-Peach-90@reddit
You’re right. As another commenter said, Turks that hate us properly don’t bother us much. Secular Turks though are very curious about Greeks. They tease here, they tease there trying to pick up what’s up with us and what to make of modern Greeks. It’s almost cute but also as the Turks that they are, they hold lots of prejudice and false beliefs about Greeks
egny@reddit
Your personal prejudice and false beliefs about Turks is also very cute.
Substantial-Peach-90@reddit
You’re welcome
egny@reddit
People like you deserve the "Turks that hate [you] properly".
Substantial-Peach-90@reddit
Why?
egny@reddit
You claimed that, so please go ahead and explain.
You've written
and then complain about Turks who don't hate and want to have an accurate take on Greek people.
So why do you prefer being hated and not being reached out to, whether in a clumsy fashion or not.
Substantial-Peach-90@reddit
That’s a fair question my friend but I’m not preferring hatred, I’m distinguishing between two negative interactions. Because one hand the hateful Turks, yes are hateful openly obviously. “Secular” Turks on the other hand are curious, but their curiosity comes wrapped in lingering prejudices and stereotypes about Greeks. The interaction and teasing that I mentioned feels like testing, rather than genuine warmth, it doesn’t feel genuine and doesn’t have an approach of getting to know. Rather an arrogant curiosity with a background of nationalism and excessive pride that tests limits.
That’s not a personal judgement of every “secular” Turk, it’s an observation after many many many….many interactions with them.
egny@reddit
I cannot pretend to speak to your experience, but I'm rather disappointed how much prejudice and hatred exists on the Greek side as well. At least on line.
That's surprising because I've been to Greece quite a few times, traveling all over the mainland and quite a few of the islands too and never encountered hostility.
One, then, begins to wonder. Which experience is more truthful?
LenaLena93@reddit
Aw
treadbolt5@reddit
Travel. Observe for your own. Online spaces arent real. They are echo chambers for extremist asocial wirrdos
Lord_Gobbledygook@reddit
Yeah but we play the theater here in this sub for the lolz
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
Turk secularists r "obsessed" w/ us cause of extreme "inferiority-complex"
it's really embarrassing.
other Turks aren't really like that, even if they openly dislike us. (which is fair enough, I don't give a crap what they o all countries, think of Greece).
egny@reddit
Why should any Turk or Greek should feel inferior to the other?
"Honey" just accept you're just another racist and work on that.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
learn to read.
never said "should"
there's 0 Greeks that "feel inferior" to Turks, there's plenty of Turks that "feel inferior" to Greeks & deliberately try to "forge" a link w/ Greece, to distance Turkey from Arabs, Persia, etc.
& they get really pissed off when u point it out. (cause they know it's embarrassing, lol).
egny@reddit
Said any poster with a BS stance. Always it's the other party who does not "comprehend" or cannot "read". Is literacy perchance your only achievement?
You claimed secular Turks have inferiority complex. The onus is on you to back that up. No, a few idiots simping does not prove it. Turks appreciating Greek culture and identifying similarities and differences does not imply "inferiority complex"
Here let me school you on the English grammar. The sentence above does not mean that you said "should". It can be used to challenge your claim that a certain subset feels inferior. That is, no Turk has any reason to feel inferior.
egny@reddit
It must be exhausting to take offense at everything.
Lord_Gobbledygook@reddit
That's nothing, try dealing with other Greeks on a daily basis
BruceWayneOriginal@reddit
One thing that's offensive is that he is depicted inside a barrel, with metallic reinforcement and all, hahaha.
Huge clay pot, my dudes!
Any_Day_4467@reddit
Enough with the drooling, let's move on to normal situations.
euclideum@reddit
(Not greek, just a lover of greek heritage, history and pivotal contributions to mankind)
Ionia is where it all started, while it is modern day turkey, at that time it came under the greek cultural zone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionian_school_(philosophy)
nasosroukounas@reddit
Diogenes was the first hippy and a huge troll
Kitsooos@reddit
He probaby became a "hippy" and a street troll out of need. His father was cought stealing large amounts of money and Dio's family got fucked pretty hard as punishment. Dio himeself was sold as a slave.
He had to make a living somehow.
Lunatik_C@reddit
def. not ''hippy''. Most probably a crust punk.
Big-Inspector-6370@reddit
I personally don't see it being offensive at all. This is historical. It's the place he was born. This statue has historical importance
Sea_Gap_6569@reddit
Historical?
I mean it’s better than other deep Anatolian statues, but still looks funny 😄
(my Turkish compatriots flood this comment with the ‘unique’ statues)
Kitsooos@reddit
Why does it look funny ? It actually looks pretty nice to me.
Kitsooos@reddit
No, not at all. You will find statues of Greek figures in countless countries. It really doesn't bother anyone.
The only sad thing here is, that the very people that completely deny their Greco-Roman past and heritage and instead go around claiming they are Turkic horseriders from the depths of Asia, will at the same time try to use said heritage, in order to make some money.
themaelstorm@reddit
Half of ancient greek stuff is from anatolia. Dont tell the turks but their people have roots in ancient greek and byzantine
Substantial-Peach-90@reddit
That’s a fair question my friend but I’m not preferring hatred, I’m distinguishing between two negative interactions. Because one hand the hateful Turks, yes are hateful openly obviously. “Secular” Turks on the other hand are curious, but their curiosity comes wrapped in lingering prejudices and stereotypes about Greeks. The interaction and teasing that I mentioned feels like testing, rather than genuine warmth, it doesn’t feel genuine and doesn’t have an approach of getting to know. Rather an arrogant curiosity with a background of nationalism and excessive pride that tests limits.
That’s not a personal judgement of every “secular” Turk, it’s an observation after many many many….many interactions with them.
Active_Unit_9498@reddit
Well, since everyone knows that most of Turkey's history isn't Turkish, it shouldn't offend. Greece has so much culture and history they're happy to lend a hand.
vitusmaximus@reddit
Maybe you are ignorant about any history other than greeks, but turks learn about all anatolian history including greek, roman, eastern roman, hittite, sumerian, urartu, lydian, lycian, phyrygian, celt and many other plus the vast turkic history from china to europe, which you apparently have no fckn clue about.
Active_Unit_9498@reddit
Hahahaha tell me you didn't understand basic English without telling me.
vitusmaximus@reddit
You really try hard to sound smart and witty but really you look like a sad and butthurt imbecile :) Yes i am exactly saying that. As it can be clearly understood in my message, i told that turks learn all non-turkic civilizations plus the turkic history alongside.
Active_Unit_9498@reddit
LMAO I don't need to try at all, the fact that you think you're contradicting me while repeating what I said: most of the history in and around Turkey isn't Turkish at all makes me laugh.
vitusmaximus@reddit
Decided you are not worth a response or effort :) will just leave you with your racism and ignorance.
Active_Unit_9498@reddit
Hahahaha you're still too stupid to get it.
vitusmaximus@reddit
No the sad and cringe part is you trying to act fucking smart by knowing about previous civilizations in anatolia, while everybody both greek or turkish already knows very well about them, and both turks and greeks are also very well informed about their history as well. So what i mean is turks have their own history, plus they respect and carry the history of the lands they conquered or inherited. As you can see in the statue, turks dont claim the history - but cherish it. Also you can see in the comments that greeks are also cool with it. Only problem here is irrelevant fucks like you acting butthurt here spreading racist comments from their shitholes. I didnt want to be this rude but you are a fucking fascist shit that deserve it 😂
Active_Unit_9498@reddit
lololol you forgot to delete all your comments chicken shit
Circles-of-the-World@reddit
It's not offensive since it doesn't claim he's a Turk, but I have to be honest. The complete lack of context for that quote is hilarious. Especially since the statue describes much more famous moment, where he was walking through the streets in the middle of the day with a lit lantern and when people questioned what he was foing he responded "I'm looking to find an honest man". Just put that quote on the statue! Jeez!
Fatalaros@reddit
The quote is also really wrong.
shishkopath@reddit
Yeah it probably lost the meaning when it turned into english, could be because of bad translation on the turks part, the turkish version sounds pretty good and I am sure closer to the greek/latin version
Zinc-Roof_22@reddit
It's very common in Turkey, though, that decontextualisation. At least it's not nearly so bad as our guys who openly claim Arabic, Turkic etc. things.
Circles-of-the-World@reddit
I still remember my favorite Turkish inscription on a historical statue "he liberated Eastern Anatolia from Byzantine dominance". Lmao! Just say "he conquered it", dude! It's not something to be ashamed of!
shishkopath@reddit
Oh yeah there is a little bit of a romanticism going on about our emperors there sadly, everyone is so invested in the "kind and benevolent, all perfect sultans" idea so "conquest" is too aggressive in their minds xD Just people who think the Ottoman royal family as their ancestor, meanwhile their actual grandpa was probably starving in the field back in his day in anatolia because of he taxes :p the fine balance of respecting your roots while knowing their flaws is a tricky one
shishkopath@reddit
When I was a kid I had books in turkish about diogenes and many other greek philosophers, and most of my friends, schoolmates, teachers and relatives knew about these famous people that lived in our borders even if they werent turk. So I would assume the lack of context might be that he and the stories about him are very widely known. That might not be a general thing though, it is just my personal experience.
SoftwareSource@reddit
So? some Roman Emperors were born in modern day Croatia (Diocletian) or Serbia (Aurelian), doesn’t make them Croatian or Serbian…
It has been literal Millenia, plural.
Shit changes.
Inkaara@reddit
What's with all the goading questions and memes lately?
ExoticFortune2439@reddit
idgaf_aboutyou@reddit
Amerika’da değiliz kanka sakin ol
Legitimate-Glove5126@reddit
Not at all, that’s where he was from.
honkycronky@reddit
it has to be ragebait
Giokku@reddit
Why would it make me mad? It's not lying, this did happen.
Angeronus@reddit
I think some people may have misunderstood us due to the disputes that we had with North Macedonia. We don't actually have a problem when other countries place statues or whatever of Greek historical figures. Our problem is when they claim them as their own. Diogenes was born in Sinope (Σινώπη), originally an Ionian colony, so i find it perfectly reasonable to have a statue of him there. It's not a problem at all, unless you claim that he was a Turk.
LocalFoe@reddit
yes because Diogenes used to masturbate in public, and this statue doesn't immortalise his full glory
Reasonable-Summer343@reddit
No i dont mind, with this way more peaple learn about him and this is important
stamatis_ix@reddit
No, and it looks cool!
disgracelands@reddit
Well as long as the inscription doesn’t include any misleading information, it doesn’t bother me at all. But I remember reading some Turkish tourism ads in a magazine like Newsweek back in the ‘90s or ‘00s, and it struck me that while the text was talking about all the Ionian ancient cities not once did it mention Ancient Greece, it was solely referring to them as Roman. That made me angry yeah.
Substantial-Peach-90@reddit
They still refer to everything as Roman and never mention Ancient Greece 😂 I went to historical sites and museums in Turkey and they avoid mentioning Greeks as much as they can, it is true
disgracelands@reddit
They still do? That’s a pity then.
yareyarewensledale25@reddit
No, it makes me smile that he got proper respect.
Mos_Kovitz_Cantina@reddit
Nah, all good. Could have been cool is to write Diogenes in Greek though.
Character_Ad8455@reddit
My grandmother was from Sinope, her Greek family lived there for hundreds of years so, no I’m not offended.
Orthodox-Paradox@reddit
I am extremely offended. He wears clothes! How dare you!! He is also not masturbating!!! Another capital offense against him!!!! (/s for obvious reasons)
not_jbp1@reddit
No,as long as Turks acknowledge that at the time he was living in Greek land and that he is part of Greek history no.
Paceronikus@reddit
I mean, why would it? He was born there, they have the right to celebrate him. It would be a different story if they claimed he was a Turkish Philosopher.
Freddie Mercury was born on Zanzibar - Tanzania, yet everyone knows him as a British musician, but that doesn't mean people of Zanzibar don't have the right to celebrate him being born there.
Same with Nikola Tesla. A Serbian man, born in Austria-Hungary at the time - modern day Croatia, schooled in modern Austria, invented almost everything he is famous for in the USA, yet every one if those nations have the right to celebrate him for the things that associate them with him. USA for making him sucseed, Croatia as his birthplace, Serbia because he is a Serb (ethnicity/heritage), and Austrian schools for providing him with education.
egny@reddit
He's actually of Parsi (Persian migrants to India) origin. He was sent to India for boarding school. He's the most famous Indian musician too.
hgaben90@reddit
Uh pal? 2balkans4you would be that way.
puhupuh@reddit
I really agree with all of the comments that ask wtf, why anyone would be offended if there is a statue of Diogenes in his birth place.
BUT I am so offended by this degradation of the fine art of sculpture, this looks like straight "printed" out of Ai slop prompt, where no idea or subtle symbolism, or anything remotely valuable is presented or worthy the subject in question. Is there anything else they could have put in this image, maybe even another Diogenes somewhere, or Alexander lol. This is pure slop and shit, and degrades the whole idea and purpose of monuments, what they should signify, and the value that art should ADD to the context and narrative. Sorry for the rant, we all must do better.
Marakajin@reddit
Absolutely not. I would be angry if there *wasn't* a statue. Maybe I'd prefer it if his name was also inscribed in Greek somewhere there, but otherwise no issues.
egny@reddit
A third inscription in Greek would have been nice.
Hot-Exit-6495@reddit
Ah, yes. Diogenes, one of the most famous ancient Turkish philosophers.
8thmiracle@reddit
Name says it all
NegotiationSweet5082@reddit
Amacın ne senin? Hani niye böyle bir başlık var? Biri neden diyojen heykelinden rahatsız olsun?
PotentialBat34@reddit
3 aylık bir hesap, profile (muhtemelen) tepki çekmemek için Ata'nın resmini koymuş ve tezata bakın ki Rumi mahlasını kendine edinmiş. Liseli, kafası karışık bir arkadaşımız muhtemelen.
ahbirbilsen@reddit
Hocam kendi haline bırakın, 3 aylık hesapta 5 bin karma var. Ya art niyetli, ya başka amacı var, ya da düpedüz ilgi bağımlısı bir salak.
RasyonelRumi@reddit (OP)
Hesabıma para yattı dediler ki Yunanlar ve Türkler arasında kavga çıkart büyük oyunu gördün aferin ne amacım olacak amk canım istedim sordum soracağım soru için de mi alacağım amk
alecorock@reddit
As Greek American I am only angry that the statue is so bootleg.
tkchrist@reddit
No we feel honoured, though it would be more accurate if he was masturbating! Check out Menippos he was also a cynic philosopher!
Young_Owl99@reddit
Yeah imagine have a masturbating statue near the castle of Sinop lol.
Tinenan@reddit
Why would it?
Crazylawyer80@reddit
If only it were so easy to soothe hunger by rubbing an empty belly
treadbolt5@reddit
Turks read the same history, science and philosophy everybody else does. We celebrate them just as others do. Why would this make anyone angry?
Young_Owl99@reddit
Why would they ?
Unless we claim him as Turkish which would be hilarious but considering what type of person he was I wouldn’t be surprised.
Babuci97@reddit
Move aside you’re blocking the sun.
The GOAT
GK_Iam@reddit
Can you even fit in your head the size Greece had in Ancient Times?
How far Alexander the Great had gone and conquered?
Turkey was not even a thing at those times, it was Greece all the way down to middle East...
Turkey Republic was created by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk who was born in 1881 in Thessaloniki...Greece!!!
So the real question is "what really is Turkey?"
RasyonelRumi@reddit (OP)
1) Yes
2) All the way to India
3) Yes
4) It was the Ottoman Empire at the time
5) I don’t really see any correlation but ok
6) Italy not being Italy does not erase the foundations of modern Italy. There still ancient Italic people.
7) Idk man I am an atheist
8) kinda doubt it since according to the Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod 121 out of 1,763 recorded historical conflicts were primarily motivated by religion
GK_Iam@reddit
Thank you my brother 🙏
Olegzs@reddit
This reminds me of the situation with the philosopher Immanuel Kant who was born, lived and died in Königsberg, nowadays Kaliningrad, Russia. It's well documented that he spoke German, wrote in German, and belonged to the German cultural sphere, and if somebody builds a statue dedicated to him in Kaliningrad, nobody will try to say that he's somehow Russian, but they will emphasize his role in philosophy.
Volaer@reddit
Why should Turks honouring a Greek make me angry?
Signal-Dog9356@reddit
Doesn’t bother me at all. Diogenes wisdom should be sprayed around
FrozenDihh@reddit
No.
If he was born there and they acknowledge he was Greek, no issue whatsoever.
TheCharalampos@reddit
Goodness, you just have a lot of free time to worry about such stuff. It's a statue, most of them are problematic somehow. Doesn't affect me.
int23_t@reddit
It's one of the few cities founded by Greeks and inhabited by Greeks at 400BC.
(one of 5 in Anatolian black sea coast AFAIK)
Defiant_Being_9222@reddit
Of course it's not offensive, because you recognize that he was Greek. It is a nice tribute to Greek culture.
Putting up statues becomes offensive when you try to appropriate the person depicted, like Alexander the Great in North Macedonia.
WonderfulZombie1557@reddit
Modern Greeks would call him stinky leftist homeless failure of a man but yeah they are proud of him also.
kostac600@reddit
Santa Claus is still a thing in Turkey too, but he’s actually Saint Nicholas and Myra.
FssstBoing@reddit
No, not at all
dallyan@reddit
What is up with these types of posts? We don’t need this bullshit trying to divide us. We get annoyed with each other enough as is.
BamBumKiofte23@reddit
I wouldn't care if you made Diogenes hold a Turkish flag on his other hand while wearing an Ataturk t-shirt, as long as you presented his ideas and philosophy correctly.
RedEyesRequiem@reddit
This guy was a fucking legend
Dreadscythe95@reddit
Why though? Sinope was a Greek city, why is it bad to have the statue.
Lunatik_C@reddit
Not a bit, the inscription is ok too. Although, Diogenes made his name and ''career'' far away from Sinopi. His dad was a banker there, and he got caught subsidizing the city's coin so he could gain personal interest! We don't know if young Dio had a part on the scheme, but he was stripped his citizenship and sold as a slave (one of the worst things a Greek of that times could bear as a punishment). After that, in mainland Greece he became (in)famous...
OnlyHereOnFridays@reddit
Nah fam, this is wholesome
Gimmebiblio@reddit
Absolutely, categorically no.