GM’s Next-Gen Super Cruise Is Training On ‘100 Years Of Human Driving’ Every Day
Posted by Receding_Hairline23@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 104 comments
90Carat@reddit
I don't know..... I have a relative who is almost 100. Last thing I want is them teaching anyone or anything to drive.
daandriod@reddit
I hope they polish it. My experience with super cruise is that it works fantasticly, But coverage on swap roads they mapped is spotty as all hell. Randomly just clicking off for random parts of the same road for a mile or two before turning back on.
Its not even as good as Subaru's tech with the gen 3 eyesight system, Which isn't an expensive upgrade or subscription
Quick_Coyote_7649@reddit
Why don’t they just want to wor towards level 4 auotnomous?
BLOZ_UP@reddit
Because that's exponentially harder.
Quick_Coyote_7649@reddit
I feel like the brands who advertise their cruise control as level 4 and their under level autonomous driving will have the same fate Tesla does. Tesla is certified for level 2, marketed it as full self driving and got a bunch of repercussions for it.
HeavyDutyForks@reddit
I see people doing "eyes off" highway driving almost every day. I guess those people are way ahead of the curve
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
99.98% safe!
Just you know, sometimes the people in that 0.02% veer off the road slightly and have a lil scare, and sometimes they get slammed head first in to a semi and everyone dies. Worth the gamble to rest the ol eyes for a minute tho amirite??
BLOZ_UP@reddit
99.98% safe sounds like way better odds than manual driving. Your deeper argument appears to be: "I don't want to be in an accident when I'm not 'in control'". Same as people's fear of flying, despite it being the safest form of travel.
lee1026@reddit
99.98% sounds pretty bad. Typical human is an accident about 100,000 miles, give or take?
That's 6 zeros, so you need about 6 nines in there to match.
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
I don’t think you’re reading anything if that was your takeaway
mulletstation@reddit
Ah the Fox News model of fear
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
Imagine defending corporations speed running not fully safe technology to test on users so they can maximize profits while controlling dev costs, while simultaneously pretending like that’s the progressive stance lol.
lee1026@reddit
I am sure that the insurance companies will have data on whether the mode is safe to use.
AndroidUser37@reddit
How about if I'm running an open source self driving program that I've installed and am testing myself? (I am actually doing this by the way, it's called Openpilot.) Does the fact that it's more "moral" suddenly make you like the tech more?
mulletstation@reddit
Imagine scary thing 1 at a made up X% of the time while ignoring scary thing 2 is already happening at a 10X% of the time.
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
It's a false dichotomy, which is classic of the fox news types, human error is a huge problem, but replacing that with machine error doesn't make safety better, requiring human attention at the moment is the right thing to do.
NewRefrigerator7461@reddit
But you can’t enforce it. Humans are going to human - might as well give them the better tech ASAP
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
You can not market it as a replacement for driving maybe??
NewRefrigerator7461@reddit
It doesnt matter how it’s marketed. The behavior will be the same. Only thing that will be different is the legal defenses
NewRefrigerator7461@reddit
I think it is the progressive stance and the utilitarian stance actually. I’ll defend it!
It’s going to result in less human deaths in the aggregate that’s a win! Wish it was rolled out faster
xsairon@reddit
Idk man surely has to be shitty to die that way, but same shit goes if you sneeze a bit too hard, are tired and cant react as fast to something etc
Going fast on a multiple ton piece of metal is exactly as safe as it sounds even if we got relatively good at it
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
“You can die other ways” is not a great way to defend corporations rushing unfinished products to market that can kill people lol. What is wrong with you people?
xsairon@reddit
Mate, in highways the tech is very much proven, belive it or not.
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
It's not lol, a Tesla rear-ended and killed someone on a motorcycle not that long ago, another one blew right in to an 18 wheeler a bit ago, there's several others.
xsairon@reddit
You know many milles are driven that way and how many accidents there are vs human drivers?
It really isnt any short of tragedy
Can tell you the same about people doing exactly that
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
This is a false dichotomy, human drivers are certainly unsafe. Automated driving is also unsafe at the present moment. Human drivers plus automated assists are a safety feature.
Pretending like a safety feature is a replacement is just obviously bad logic that only exists to juice corporate profits at the expense of lives, you guys be gobbling up that fox news rhetoric to the hilt lol.
xsairon@reddit
Lol at the last part when i even hate drive assists but ok go on
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
You're sitting here attacking someone for saying a drive assist isn't autonomous self driving, are you even reading or just mad?
xsairon@reddit
how am I attacking you?
and all im saying is that in a highway scenario, self drive is more than capable, and arguably better than humans at it - and where its bad (random shit going on) we humans are also fairly bad, and we are still at charge if you dont want to use it or if you need to get your hands on the wheel to act on something
but if your kid is going insane in the back or unbuckles his seatbelt, instead of having to do anything dangerous (stopping on the side of a highway is also not safe in case you mention it) to fix it or having to wait until you can get off to fix it, I find a short term hands off system pretty useful, or even full self drive on specific places
and honestly? rather have a fucking idiot abuse this system to be on his phone over him not having it and still being on his phone, perhaps if he rams my car I can at least sue whatever company for a paycheck if it really comes down to it
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
Brother read your posts, you're all over the place - you're saying you're not trying to represent driver assists as full self driving, then do exactly that, then go rage at people who suggest that they're not lol.
xsairon@reddit
What?
All ive said mutiple times is that self driving in highways is good enough as it is to be generally used? Specially for what they plan on doing?
Or this is just ragebait at this point
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
It's not good enough lol, are you reading anything here? including what you're writing?
ca2mt@reddit
Sure, if manual driving is also 99.98% safe.
LeVin1986@reddit
The premature adopters.
ZeroWashu@reddit
I remember when state officials bragged about the new hands free law with regards to cell phones and within a few weeks it seemed as if every other driver had a cell phone attached to the dash or windshield in their line of sight.
self driving vehicles will change society for the better in so many ways and it really cannot come soon enough.
NewRefrigerator7461@reddit
Can you imagine commuting 100 miles a day and being able to work the whole time? It seems like the fastest way to take pressure off housing markets in urban areas
400Volts@reddit
That's where the training data is coming from
maxlax02@reddit
I ride a motorcycle that is tall enough I can see into everyone’s windows including the lifted trucks.
I’d guess about 90% of people I see are on their phones and it seems like the taller the vehicle the more likely they seem to be on their phone.
GodsFavoriteDegen@reddit
https://i.imgur.com/GPmbaHA.png
KentuckyFriedChingon@reddit
"The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of oil and when the exhausts finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their redlining and vehicular manslaughter will foam up about their waists and all the lifted trucks and eighteen wheelers will look up and shout 'SAVE US!'
...and I'll look down and whisper 'No.'"
MumpsyDaisy@reddit
Well yeah that's why you get a big tall vehicle, so when you get into a wreck you win. Duh.
OkDirection8015@reddit
How about making cars that people actually have to drive. Isnt that the whole point of a car lol?
BLOZ_UP@reddit
For the vast majority of people, no. They just want to get to their destination.
ThatsNashTea@reddit
The more autonomous driving, the fewer jackasses causing traffic, the better experience for all of us.
HeyyyyListennnnnn@reddit
I take it you haven't seen all the traffic Waymo causes with their cars stopping when they come across something the computer can't interpret with any confidence.
ThatsNashTea@reddit
I have. It’s not as bad as the traffic caused by idiots on the daily, it’s just more newsworthy
roman_maverik@reddit
Do you really think that the guy with mismatched body panels and bald LingLong tires weaving through traffic at 20 mph over the limit is going to be purchasing a self driving car anytime soon?
ThatsNashTea@reddit
I’ve been in 4 accidents. 3 were rear-ended in stop and go traffic by someone staring at their phone. The 4th was someone merged into me without checking their blind spot. Inattentive drivers who would rather have a FSD Tesla are the ones I’m more worried about than the clapped out Altimas.
roman_maverik@reddit
How old are you? That's a pretty high number accidents to have in the last 20 years. Are you sure you don't need FSD?
mattortz@reddit
from what he described, those accidents don’t sound like he was at fault.
ThatsNashTea@reddit
And yet I was never deemed at fault. I just lived in an area where drivers are statistically the worst in the country: the mid-Atlantic. Specifically would routinely drive from DC to NYC for work trips, which means dealing with drivers from Baltimore, Philadelphia, and New Jersey. After 10 years of that, I got a remote job and moved 12 hours away.
LLJKCicero@reddit
For most people, the point of a car is getting from point A to point B. If the car could completely drive itself (which seems to be coming...), even better.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
The more interesting bit of this is they're continuing to invest in the Escalade IQ platform, right after mostly backtracking from EVs. I know it's a long time in the making, they're not going to change everything up that quick etc. but still
greg-maddux@reddit
I have to say as a Cadillac ev owner, they’ve done a pretty bang-up job as far as driving comfort and dynamics are concerned. I have some beef with a few things gm does (I’m sure you can guess what those issues would be) but they’ve done a great job.
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
GM has to be the automaker that by far exemplifies the whole "if they wanted to, they would" mantra. When they want to they knock it out of the park, but man they rarely seem like they want to.
They're like the automaker version of that super smart kid who sits in the back of class fucking around all year and skirts by with a 2.5 GPA but scores a 1400 on the SAT to prove someone wrong, then goes back to getting C's.
greg-maddux@reddit
100%. They get 90% of the way there and throw up their hands and say “good enough!”
NewRefrigerator7461@reddit
I actually think it comes down to org structure after watching Jason cammissa’s video on Tesla this week. They need a battery buck structure for their engineers to use
400Volts@reddit
It seems like they have one engineering A team and a bunch of C and D teams that they move around to different projects
PurpleSausage77@reddit
Gotta ask the questions, what’s preventing them from doing? GM has had this issue internally where there’s too much conflict getting in the way of efficiently making breakthrough innovation. Accounting bean counters vs engineering/progress.
1ncehost@reddit
Why do you have to call me out like that 🥺
NewRefrigerator7461@reddit
It makes sense to invest in. They’re becoming the black car of choice in NY and LA - theyre so good for that role.
I’m not actually sure GM is pulling back on investment that much. Theyre just not doubling down on the next gen because what they have is fine and they need to focus on reducing costs above all else. More capex is not going to help that
Might as well wait for new battery chemistry before doing a full redesign
watduhdamhell@reddit
As a SIS controls engineer I'd say it's extremely concerning. I wouldn't let AI write a single line of safety related code (for example, automatic emergency braking systems) without it being validated line by line and signed off by the responsible engineer... Which I'm afraid is not what's happening. But maybe I'm too conservative.
dragonbrg95@reddit
As someone who uses supercruise almost every day I think the AI is mostly parsing out which sections of road to allow supercruise to work on. With some stretches of road where the car will allow supercruise to run then suddenly ask me to take back over it seems obvious to me that GM has scanned all of the roads where I live and they have some kind of autonomous system that pours through all of the scan information and makes assessments on where supercruise may be appropriate. There are weird sections of highways that get disabled in short bursts because it thinks an HOV divider is an exit lane, there are some comically short sections of roads where it works, sometimes it stays partially active in the presence of traffic controls and other times it asks me to take over entirely, and some other weird things that make it seem like a trained model and not a person is deciding this.
As you say, I would hope the mechanics of how the system would work would be primarily human written or heavily qa/qc'd by engineers.
watduhdamhell@reddit
Well I have no issue with AI doing that? I think maybe my comment was too vague or is being misunderstood by people not familiar with how controls are actually implemented.
The thing I meant was decision logic. Not the vision system in any way- but the control of the vehicle proper in various situations. Also Interconnect logic/infrastructure to other systems, like the braking system, engine/transmission control, etc. etc. The AI is scanning and looking for things, but there absolutely must be code, written by humans, that will control the emergency actions or control outputs of the vehicle. The code to actually grab the brake pedal and push it down, the wheel and swerve, stop, engage some other devices in the car like pre tensioners, and so on. Decision and execution logic I have to imagine is all mostly hand written traditionally.
What I'm afraid of specifically is that that logic may now be mass written by agents with very little code checking by the engineers, and bam, just like that you have vibe coded safety systems. What a fucking horrible idea.
But I hope I'm wrong!
dragonbrg95@reddit
No you weren't vague I understood what you meant.
Im just guessing how GM does this. I dont know for sure. Like you I would hope that the inputs and more direct controls would be much more carefully controlled.
Recoil42@reddit
This isn't code (in the traditional sense) being written at all. It's a gigantic lookup table of values, that's all any AI is. And at L3/L4 it's still being checked against a more traditional human-validated ruleset.
epicepee@reddit
Of course there's code involved! Regardless of how you think about AI from a philosophical PoV, if an AI writes
i++, it does exactly the same thing as if a human had writteni++.(Separately: LLMs are not lookup tables. See e.g. https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/next-token-predictor-is-an-ais-job , or any article on the transformer architecture.)
IcameforthePie@reddit
Aye an Astral Codex Ten fan on r/cars!
Recoil42@reddit
I am simplifying, of course.
watduhdamhell@reddit
Lmao that's not true at all. Machine learning and AI generally speaking, yes. That is correct.
There will be code written to make these tools talk to each other. It doesn't just magic itself in the vehicle.
I think you are deeply confused about what I meant.
Recoil42@reddit
Yes, there's 'glue' between the model inference that is conventional code. It isn't necessary to hand-validate it if your evaluation and CI/CD suite is bulletproof enough, as AI-based validation beats human these days. The model training isn't safety-critical code (and categorically does not have to be) and the perception and pathing themselves absolutely do not have to be hand-written.
shadybonesranch@reddit
Vibe coding a self driving system for highway speeds is a choice
RequirementLeading12@reddit
Cadillac is gonna remain in the EV market.
Recoil42@reddit
This is agnostic to the Escalade IQ, it has applicability across the entire GM lineup.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Yeah, but they're targeting a launch for this in 2028, when a next-gen ICE escalade is right around the corner (28/29/30?) They could very easily just let the IQ fall behind & demo it first on the next gen ICE
Recoil42@reddit
You're missing the forest the trees here: The IQ is more electronically advanced than the gasser Escalade because GM thought it was going to be a big success. So of course, they want to develop on their most advanced platform, but GM is also doing a partial turnaround on EVs.
The current strategy is:
It's the Toyota strategy, but rather than doing it from the start like Toyota did, GM is scrambling to double back and bring everything together because the "EVs as a vanguard" strategy didn't work out.
Sea-Attention-5815@reddit
Those who buy electric cars are also a different audience, interested in autopilot and willing to pay for it and test it. All these autopilots are in the beta or even alpha stages. Maybe except Tesla.
You can't judge by the number of people buying purely electric cars, they're different people.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Gotchu
_badwithcomputer@reddit
EV isn't a requirement for self driving though.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
No, but those EV platforms were engineered w sensor placement & the necessary compute in mind, unlike the ice equivalents which were built around the cases for a silverado 1500
Recoil42@reddit
Core compute is a thing that's happening in combustion too. It isn't an EV-only thing.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Yeah, but they're looking at what 2029 for a next-generation escalade on that minimum?
Idk where I ever said that EV is a requirement for self driving, or anything likewise, all I said was that I found them investing in the IQ interesting considering its relatively low volume, I'd expect them to just postpone it all & iron it out for the ICE next gen escalade like 1-2yrs after
Theres obviously nothing inherent to EV, plenty of manufacturers have achieved more w/ ICE cars already
Recoil42@reddit
There's no one date where "core compute" suddenly launches with great fanfare like a baby shot out of a womb at all. Core compute is a thing that comes together in bits and pieces, forms of it are already shipping on multiple GM products and will continue to be shipping. You'll see some cars go zonal, others not going zonal, zonal cars and core compute cars getting the same compute packages, etc. etc.
_badwithcomputer@reddit
SuperCruise is already on all of those body on frame ICE SUVs and trucks though, for a number of years actually.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
L2 SuperCruise, not the L3 system they're planning to develop her
I'm quoting the article, for what its worth
Sierra592@reddit
If self driving vehicles are even 1% safer than the statistically safest drivers, they're worth using.
soggycookie11@reddit
The funny part about this is that they’re already way more than 1% safer than human drivers. Tesla says FSD usage results in 7x fewer collisions than the US average and Waymo says they have 82% fewer injury causing collisions and 92% fewer serious injury or worse collisions
Sierra592@reddit
I get that it's hard for most people to give up control, but I can't wait until the shittiest drivers aren't even allowed to drive anymore.
soggycookie11@reddit
One of the main things I notice when FSD is driving me everyday is just how stark the difference is between the way it drives and the way humans drive. I didn’t notice it when I used to drive manually, but now I notice how bad most humans are at driving: running stop signs at 20mph, running red lights, tailgating, lack of turn signals, right of way violations, lack of caution in parking lots, and so on (all of these go double for pickup drivers). FSD doesn’t do any of those things and it drives smoother and more comfortably than I could.
Sierra592@reddit
I just went from Tampa to Miami with my buddy in his Model Y on Hurry mode and it was my first time. He's a really responsible, smart dude and I trust him with my life.
I gotta say my cheeks were clenched for a few passages, as the car got pretty aggressive with getting around other traffic.
soggycookie11@reddit
It can be pretty surprising how assertive FSD can be sometimes, and that’s not even Mad Max mode (above hurry)! Still, after doing thousands of miles on FSD I actually feel a bit safer with it engaged then if I were to drive, because I know the car won’t take risks like I might. I still enjoy driving, but for any trip over a few minutes, FSD is going on, it’s just so easy to sit back and relax
Skeptical0ptimist@reddit
So how much onboard GPU power do you need for realtime inference?
soggycookie11@reddit
Probably way less than you think. For reference Tesla’s AI4 uses a max of 160W, maybe 1-3% of the power a model y uses per mile
Castrol-5w30@reddit
China banned one pedal driving because pedal misapplication was becoming common. People stomped on the gas when wanting to brake because the muscle memory of hitting the brakes to stop wasn't there.
I worry that autonomous driving is going to have a bunch of people out there getting no experience driving. While I'm sure super cruise and the like are wonderful for the daily commute, each mile on that is a mile the driver isn't getting experience actually driving and reacting to things.
whale-tail@reddit
China bans things because their domestic automakers rip off perfectly good foreign technology and implement it half-assedly, and their government just blames the technology itself and blanket-bans it
UXyes@reddit
I get what you’re saying but this is like arguing against anti-lock brakes because people will never learn gradual braking. I think there’s an assumption that the advancement helps reliably enough that the loss of the skill of the human involved is OK, because it’s a net gain.
enaK66@reddit
Yeah and we should also up the standards for testing across the board anyway. I don't know about China but driving tests in the US are a joke. Back up, parallel park, drive around the block. Bam, now you're ready to drive down 70mph interstates and 6 lane city streets.
_mogulman31@reddit
Imagine this someone has there car drive them all the time, then one day its either raining or snowing to hard for the sensors to work. Not the first time in mo ths they are behind the wheel are in the most difficult driving conditions. Autonomous driving is stupid and solves a problem that doesn't really exist while exacerbating the existing problem of people not paying attention while operating a 1-2l3 ton piece of machinery.
The focus should be on better driving aids and collision avoidance not make allowing people to focus on anything other than driving.
DaytonaZ33@reddit
Vehicle accidents kill over a million people a year. Your problem with autonomous driving is only a temporary one. Once the systems get better and more people use them, those numbers will go down dramatically.
Slideways@reddit
Wouldn't the driving aids and collision avoidance you're suggesting also be susceptible to poor weather conditions?
Vandrel@reddit
Not only that but improving those also improves automated driving systems.
imightgetdownvoted@reddit
I don’t get that at all. My Tesla is 1 pedal and my wife’s EV9 is not (it can but I turned it off. It’s not as good as teslas implementation). I don’t even have to think about it when switching between the two cars. Like it doesn’t even occur to me.
It’s like, if I put on a pair of rollerblades I’m not thinking that i need to pedal them like a bicycle.
WCWRingMatSound@reddit
Unless you and your wife are living far, far beyond your means, you have more “car” in your garage than the average person. I suspect at least one of you has a substantial income and, I’m then inferring from that, there’s a high level of intellect in your home.
You should be asking “what happens when the Nissan Altima crowd, airheads, or teenagers have to switch between modes?”
dojuebelonginagangg@reddit
2028 is a long way away.