How is a career as a pilot unstable?
Posted by Grouchy_Box7801@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 125 comments
I heard people say it’s not stable and the aviation industry has its moments with the economy.
But does that just mean hiring wise it has its ups and downs?
Do pilots get made redundant often for example?
Or anything else
mfsp2025@reddit
It’s a gamble. Everything is a gamble. You could be a 27 year old flying a 787 for United right now with a decent amount of seniority already. You could be a CFI with 2500 hours who can’t get hired and is checked out already. You could be a Spirit captain who’s been there for 10 years about to start over at 0 again soon. Or you could be a regional captain with over 1000 pilots under you working for either a WO or SKW so you’re basically furlough proof.
We all experience different careers. Timing is everything. And so is seniority. And it’s purely luck. You could be the “best pilot” out there with 0 checkride failures but be on the street because you picked the wrong airline while the guy with 5 checkride fails is a captain at a major because they got hired in 2022.
IndependentAlps9649@reddit
These times really make you think that the regional lifers aren’t there just due to skeleton bones. Living in base with a great schedule and being furlough proof is a lot to give up when you’ve got kids and other responsibilities
TiagoASGoncalves@reddit
There are places in the world where seniority has no meaning.
jackpotairline@reddit
This comment is 100% true. I always like to chime in though and mention that we as pilots aren’t unique to career risk. Tons of private sector jobs have risk too. Companies rise and fall all the time. Whole obviously not unionized departments get laid off or let go. It’s luck with a lot of careers.
Even government jobs are carrying more risk than they used to. One administration loves what you do, the next hate what’s you do.
I can only speak to non trade related careers because that’s what I did in a former life, but for me to get ahead in pretty much anything I would have had to get my MBA. It would have cost similar to what my part 61 training did, and I’d probably top out at 1/2-2/3 of what I can do flying.
Probably the only non risk jobs left are medical and trade related jobs.
mfsp2025@reddit
Yep. I feel like tech used to be seen as THE job to do. Six figures. Pretty chill job. With AI, it seems like a lot of those guys are getting laid off left and right. It’s almost as if WE have better job security than them.
I have decent company seniority at my regional. My airline is buying planes left and right. Hiring like crazy. I don’t lose sleep over getting furloughed. Even in a black swan event, I like to think I’d be safe.
coldnebo@reddit
As a tech professional, can confirm. especially having lived through the dotcom bust. but rumors of our demise may be exaggerated?
for example, last november, the CEO of Salesforce fired most of his staff for AI… this spring he publicly admitted Salesforce is struggling because AI “gains” didn’t materialize. he’s now trying to claw back some of that resource before they go under.
our company is using AI and rather surprisingly it is increasing communication. we had kind of gotten to the point where tech was so complex and no one had time to learn or communicate— then designers started saying AI was so much better than waiting for devs to reply. And devs said the same about design. And counter-intuitively this made both sides more interested in what they were doing (“hey! wait a minute, let the expert review that first!”), so maybe AI tooling can have a positive effect as well?
anyway, I see a lot of stress in aviation as an outsider… some of it reminds me of the “tech blueprint” which is scary.
ATC is being asked to work longer hours for less pay, “privatization” is being thrown around a lot, and I hear people saying “why can’t they just automate ATC with AI?” of course these are the same people that ask why we can’t get rid of pilots, so… just realize that to Silicon Valley MBAs, every role is a commodity that should be replaceable in a race to the bottom.
of course, I’m a firm believer in the importance of expertise. and since I know how the current AI models actually work, I know their strengths and flaws well enough to use them without being blinded by the hype. (for god’s sake a data scientist just made the news because he participated in couple’s therapy with his AI “girlfriend”— the hype is so insane right now that people will believe almost anything.)
although aviation has sad stories, the thing that appeals to me is this shared value of expertise and safety culture. the regs are complex, but everything means something important— there’s very little irrelevant fluff. we study because it makes a difference. and we are still personally responsible for safety of flight— every pilot faces that responsibility for lives they carry even if it’s just a student solo.
expertise and responsibility. two things that AI is really bad at right now.
“fly good. don’t suck.”
I think we’ll be ok wherever the changing employment landscape takes us.
SlipperyKnipple@reddit
Will AI have an impact on aviation?
mfsp2025@reddit
Not any time soon. FAA moves at a snail’s pace. We can also thank ALPA for protecting us with legislation requiring two pilots in the flight deck.
Might happen in our life time if you’re young.
prex10@reddit
It's absolutely hysterical the amount of people, particularly on Reddit, that were screaming left and right "learn to code" 10 years ago. And now they're in trade school lol
mfsp2025@reddit
I remember that stuff. Almost went to college for computer science. I’m so glad I didn’t.
einTier@reddit
Have my CS degree. Got burned out just before Covid, decided to transition to being a full time entrepreneur. During Covid, I was kicking myself since my friends with CS jobs were making double what we’d been making when I exited.
Don’t envy them now.
throw_away99126@reddit
Facts. I work in Big Tech right now and It does feel like I can get laid off any sec.
leftrightrudderstick@reddit
These days you absolutely have more job security than 99.9% of tech. For the top .1% of tech there will always be jobs. But those guys aren't earning 6 figures, they're earning closer to 8
HoldinTheBag@reddit
The risk is slightly different with airline jobs because it’s all seniority based.
Lots of other industries allow lateral moves.
In our industry you always start over at the bottom
jackpotairline@reddit
Yes. True. But we all know someone in a mid to high level job where their entire department got laid off/mad redundant.
And to that point if the seniority* really bothers someone, there are always 91/135 jobs to be had. Especially if you have good time. There are options where seniority doesn’t play a part, albeit at a different pay rate with different retirement options
gromm93@reddit
If you think that trade jobs aren't risky, you're insane. My father in law was a roofer. I worked a stint in a warehouse. You risk your body every day, and just as importantly, you damage it every day too. Even if you're built like a tank like dad was, you're going to end up being a cripple. Like he is.
Sure, the job security is there I guess. There's a high rate of attrition, so they're always hiring. There's a reason for that.
jackpotairline@reddit
Honestly I can’t speak too too much to the trade jobs as I just never was involved with them. The closest I ever saw is I hung out with some guys that got into specialized welding and inspecting specialized welds. They seemed to be doing very good and always had work lined up. The interesting part was the guys I knew that were into it had a good amount of time on the road too each year.
I guess I could also say I’ve been around enough A&Ps too that have a good career. I’m hear them talk about long hours and tons of nights though. At least for a dedicated 121/135 type gig.
iCharperr@reddit
That’s what he means by risk. He’s talking risk in terms of sustainability and employment, not the physical risk involved.
drdicerchio@reddit
This is very true; most private sector jobs out there right now (and always) carry risk. The only job I ever had that carried what felt like zero risk was my corporate job at Costco, that shit was like bedrock especially after a few years and higher seniority.
Historical-Pin1069@reddit
What can you do about timing? How can one position themselves for it.
mfsp2025@reddit
Get everything as fast as possible and just hope for the best.
If I was two years earlier in my career, I’d probably be flying widebodies at a major. If I was two years later, I’d still be a CFI begging for a job. I hit it right in the middle where I’m an RJ captain. Not the jackpot. But not bad at all either.
Cadet programs help out too. They aren’t always the quickest way in but they give some sort of reassurance and at least a little bit of commitment from the airline.
Ancient-Dust3077@reddit
at what pilot level do you start a cadet program? is it ppl?
mfsp2025@reddit
They all vary. I think around commercial though.
einTier@reddit
meow
Historical-Pin1069@reddit
That is what i'm tryna do. Faster finish everything plus the written stuff. I have friends who are waiting for instructor training over a year and not even started on their multi+multi ifr jeez..
Born_Context_6891@reddit
Pan Am NEVER EVER PAID ANYTHING NEAR THAT KIND OF MONEY ! ! Actually it was almost always a sh*ty airline!
Civil-Consequence175@reddit
moral of the story im taking from this as a student pilot is, no matter what just keep going.
mfsp2025@reddit
This industry weeds out people who aren’t dedicated. Keep going and don’t give up. Especially as a student pilot, ignore all the doom and gloom you see from people who have their hours. The industry will look significantly different when you have yours.
Civil-Consequence175@reddit
thank you man. im at 35 hours now probably gonna be good to get my ppl at 50 i needed that. appreciate it.
AJohnnyTruant@reddit
This industry is a game of Plinko, not a meritocracy
One-Possibility-2351@reddit
Totally accurate. You make the best decisions to the offers that you have with the available knowledge. After that, you hope management knows what they are doing and everything else stays normal. And that never happens. But as other have said; maybe not that different than other careers. Except that when you change airlines, you start at the bottom.
Muted-Rhubarb2143@reddit
Or you could just bypass this entire airline shitshow entirely and fly in a field where you are judged on your proficiency and character. It doesn’t have to be just luck. You want to have a successful career in agriculture, fire, helicopters? They are all desperate for qualified, insurable pilots. There’s basically no DEI or other bullshit, plus you actually get the fly the thing.
Nobody will eat shit for a year or two to get an ag job. What they will do is grind the pattern needlessly for thousands of hours just to roll the dice on an airline career. Bewildering stuff. And for what? Money? if you want money go marry a doctor.
CtrlcCtrlvLoop@reddit
Well said.
Dpow528@reddit
Market go bad, people no have money. People no have money, people no fly. People no fly, pilot not needed. Pilot loose job.
CaptainJackass123@reddit
Ask anyone who’s lost a medical or gone through a furlough.
KJ3040@reddit
Every company I’ve worked for has closed bases, furloughed, gone bankrupt, and 3/5 don’t exist anymore. I’ve only been a pilot for 16 years.
ThatLooksRight@reddit
Man I hope we aren’t at the same place. You sound like bad luck.
KJ3040@reddit
Nah nah you’re lookin at it all wrong. Everything bad that happens to a pilot career has already happened to me. It should be smooth sailing for the next 20+ years.
gromm93@reddit
AI has entered the chat.
NearPeerAdversary@reddit
Ooohhh...we did not like that! Unrealistic though in our lifetime, imho.
gromm93@reddit
That's what I said about my career in IT.
NearPeerAdversary@reddit
Really not apples to apples. In IT if there's a glitch, a server goes down. If there's a glitch on an AI controlled aircraft, hundreds of people die in a very public and newsworthy manner. Companies and the public wont have the appetite to accept that outcome, even if it actuality AI might be safer than a human pilot.
gromm93@reddit
There are lots of places where IT problems can kill people. Hospitals, factories, and power generation management immediately come to mind.
But I still said "If I'm in charge of the automation, then I can make my career automation-proof." at the beginning of my career. It didn't save it.
In the meantime, automation is already taking many pilot jobs where the risk isn't terribly high, all in an effort to demonstrate its safety record is better than humans. I think we can expect that "junior positions" like pipeline inspection, surveying, banner towing and the like will be gone in 5 years, just like such positions in IT and programming have already been eliminated.
It's really too bad that all the automation we're seeing in factories hasn't managed to make aviation cheaper. It would be pretty cool to see a resurgence in flying for fun if that were the case.
NearPeerAdversary@reddit
I dont disagree there are a lot of IT applications that have lives depending on them, but none with the visibility of airline crashes. 500 people can die in a month due to medical malpractice and nobody will notice, but 56 people crash on a RJ and its in the news for months.
Captain_Billy@reddit
The FAA just ruled that no single pilot operations for US carriers for the foreseeable future. Unlikely to change when people’s lives are directly in their hands.
noamgboi1@reddit
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Zapatos-Grande@reddit
Used to commute with a guy who is at one of the Big 3. We talked a lot. It was his 7th or 8th airline. The rest either closed up shop or he was furloughed and he went elsewhere.
KJ3040@reddit
The industry is a trip man. I’m flying with captains who were once my FOs at previous airlines, and there are guys junior to me who gave me type ratings at previous airlines.
Zapatos-Grande@reddit
A lot of training department guys at my first airline got hired behind me at my second airline. Was weird to say the least.
Captain_Billy@reddit
Been an airline pilot since 1995. I’ve shut down 2 airlines, dabbled in corporate aviation, and flown contract airlines in China. I’m currently a half a decade into an airline that looks like it is starting to hit shaky ground.
On the other hand, I know of people that have flown for the same airline for 40 years.
Luck and choices
TiagoASGoncalves@reddit
Lol. Pilots are the first to get redundant. You have a job today but maybe not tomorrow. And if you wanna get a job you may very well end up in the other side of the world. Many times. And if you prefer to wait for better than you better be ready to pay for your own medical and simulator renewals.
So there you go.
Icy_Huckleberry_8049@reddit
THOUSANDS were furloughed after 9/11, thousands were furloughed during COVID
Airlines fly when people have money to travel, when they don't airlines fly fewer routes. Fewer routes = less people needed.
Even now, due to the fuel prices several airlines are cutting their schedules - UA, LH, Ryan Air, Air Canada, etc.
cutting their schedule means fewer people needed = fewer pilots, fewer FA's, etc.
Extreme-Elk-8984@reddit
Time and dedication. in my opinion, Your success requires time and money to begin the journey. Time, type rating, time, type rating and then, more hours and type ratings. The best part is you fly airplanes for a living. It’s NOT WORK! My brother had to retire as an airline pilot. It broke his heart. He did not want to quit work. He started with flight instruction, then flying twin Cessna charters, then Lears charters, then Midway Airlines, midway went tits up. He finally got on flying again with ATA flying and seven sixes from Chicago to Frankfurt, Germany, and back for a government contract and THEN, 27 years with SWA.
GOOD LUCK! God bless.
Blendermannn@reddit
If I’m just starting my “career” (I’m a hs senior working on my ppl), there’s no way to anticipate when hirings gonna be good or not, it’s all just luck of the draw and not something worth worrying about?
jetstrea87@reddit
Joined a major mud 2000's, flew on a turbo jet for a few months. Shortly after the company went belly up. Then the recession of 2008 did not help. Most of those pilots had to join the local flag carrier competition, other went to the Middle East to fly for Emirates. Some I kept contact flew for the local airline, it was going well - training was a breeze as the fleet was the same as prior airline. Well that carrier went belly up shortly after covid. That country went from having 5 national airlines down to 3.
Bowzy228@reddit
Non stop furloughing and mergers
Accomplished-Ear-681@reddit
Shit’s probably going to get weird inside of 5 years. ~40% of us Air Traffic Controllers are eligible to retire between now and then. Hiring can’t keep up and the FAA and DOT seem to be absolutely dead set against retention. Traffic Management Initiatives for staffing will necessarily increase. I’m guessing that’ll add some instability.
BigC208@reddit
How? No sideways or upward mobility. My wife’s a physical therapist. If her company folds, or she gets fired, she can get a similar or better paying position. If I get fired or my company folds I‘ll most likely make $200k less than what I’m making now, at the bottom of another seniority list.
Rush_1_1@reddit
Software engineers out of university are look at 6.5-7.5% unemployment now.
I honestly think everything is unstable unless you're a plumber or something. Which means nothing is unstable, plumbers are just super in demand :p
BigC208@reddit
Because shit happens.
Flyingredditburner44@reddit
The job market in general is just absolutely cooked.
Equivalent-Web-1084@reddit
Lose medical lose your job
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
Not always once you get out of a regional
Some companies will pay you until you’re 65 if you lose your medical
Grumbles19312@reddit
They’ll pay you, but it’s a lot less than what you could make if you were still flying, subsequently leading you to still need a job of some sort depending on your lifestyle.
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
Some airlines will pay half of your salary and it’s tax free too. If you can’t live off $200k a year and need a second job well you made some bad decisions in your life
Baystate411@reddit
200k a year isnt that much if you live in a medium or higher COL area and have a family.
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
It’s all relative but someone shouldn’t need a 2nd job making $200k if they were smart about their money
There are people making $500k a year living paycheck to paycheck. That doesn’t make sense either
prex10@reddit
Yeah, there's guys making $300,000 a year at legacies right now and they haven't touched a plane in probably five years lol
Individual-Life-9050@reddit
how does this even happen and is that part of what keeps them from hiring new people?
Mispelled-This@reddit
Are you not aware of disability insurance?
If I am physically/medically unable to do my day job anymore, insurance takes over and pays me 75% of my salary (tax free!) until I turn 65. The cost varies by job and thus the odds of them having to pay out, but most large employers include it as a standard benefit these days.
YugeWaterBottle@reddit
It's called disability.
alfienoakes@reddit
Sim instructor?
prex10@reddit
They lose their medical.
Afflak insurance.
They are hiring new people?
Baystate411@reddit
im currently out on LTD and the pay package is deent for just being alive. Thank you ALPA
BathFullOfDucks@reddit
Stress too much about losing your medical guess what? You lose your medical
Necessary_Topic_1656@reddit
You could be a senior 20 year 747 captain at Pan Am. Pan Am goes bankrupt in 1991. The Pan Am 747 captain gets hired at United the next day in 1991. He went from making $500k / year as a 747 captain to making $40k/year as a 737 FO.
Baystate411@reddit
and that 500k in 1991 is 1.2 million today. if that person didnt save and anticipate getting fucked then congrats they played themselves.
SilentPlatypus_@reddit
Or you could be one of the most junior guys at Pan Am when it went out of business, so you went to People Express, then Independence Air, then wind up at ExpressJet in your mid-40s flying RJs with captains half your age and experience (I was that captain). He was a great guy, great pilot, worst luck in picking airlines I've ever seen. I hope he got to a major before ExpressJet went out of business.
Zapatos-Grande@reddit
Had a few Comair guys swing gear for me as my FO (our airline could do Captain on Captain trips) who had 6 times the CRJ time as I did. It's a weird industry.
OffRdX@reddit
Read Hard Landing
retiredaaer@reddit
An airline (and pilots careers) are subject to the economy. When people have money, they spend it on travel. When they don’t, they don’t. Job security is never a lock. Google “airlines that went out of business”. Having a successful career as an airline pilot is a matter of luck. I was fortunate to fly for an airline the didn’t declare bankruptcy until after I retired, with my lump sum intact.
stuck_inmissouri@reddit
It’s all timing. I started at a regional airline in 2006. Was furloughed in 2008 recalled in 2009. My hire date couldn’t upgrade until 2013. They all spent a couple years as captains then went to legacies where they’re all either narrow body captains or FOs on widebodies unless they want the quality of life of being senior in the right seat of a 737.
I bailed in 2012. Went corporate. Haven’t looked back.
The first 15 years of this century were horribly unstable. The last few have not been. It’s very cyclical.
Troutybob@reddit
Pilot jobs have some of the same risks as any technical or trade career and some unique ones. You can be furloughed regardless of merit. You can lose your medical unexpectedly. You can be involved in an accident or incident that threatens your license. The feds become very interested in you if something occurs in your personal life, such as medical issues, addictions, traffic violations, mental health etc. If you do lose your job or company and want to start over at another airline you start as the junior pilot even if you were the number one guy at your previous airline. After a decade in the industry I took a 75% pay cut to start over. Not unusual.
PILOT9000@reddit
Yes.
Also yes.
Mrs_Fagina@reddit
The biggest reason this career is unstable is because it’s a very “one trick pony” career.
In the real world, people get furloughed all the time, it’s just called “laid off”.
However, they can often go find another job and at least make back a comparable salary (yes, individual results may vary)
For pilots, losing a job or a medical means they’re dumped into the real world with zero real skillset, and zero transferable knowledge. It’s an absolute life reset. And if they do get back into flying, it’s back at the bottom of seniority (ex. Jumping ship from Spirit)
The stakes are much higher for pilots, so that instability is felt to a much greater degree.
gromm93@reddit
It's funny, because everyone sees the grass as being greener on the other side of whatever fence they're on.
I have been a part of one recession-proof company. It was very low paid and I totally pigeonholed myself in that career. I couldn't leave the company for something better, because I didn't have the skills needed to get hired anywhere else.
I have also seen up close and personal, another career that you've probably barely even considered: mining. It's typically the kind of gig where you move your family out into the hinterlands somewhere, and the moment the price of the commodity you mine falters, that town shuts down with zero support for anyone. The entire town is temporary, but at least the cost of living is cheap.
Honestly? Do the thing you really want to do.
Mrs_Fagina@reddit
Sir I've watched Zoolander multiple times. I'm well aware of the dangers of Black Lung
gromm93@reddit
Hah. That's coal, not minerals.
Several-Village5814@reddit
Every career is "one trick pony". You lose your nursing license? Where are you going to work? Lose your license to practice law as a lawyer, what do you do now?
Mrs_Fagina@reddit
Not really. Nursing is actually the complete opposite. It's why it's such a popular profession amongst military spouses. It's highly transferrable between urban and rural areas. These young ladies (mostly) are moving literally every 2-3 years to different practices.
And Lawyers move all the time. Most are at a firm until they can't make Partner, but that doesn't mean their next gig drops them back to being an Associate. They can lateral move pretty easily, which pilots cannot do within the industry.
Now in both cases, I'd consider a lost license to be more "i messed up" result than a "I hurt my shoulder or got cancer and can't practice anymore".
Unhappy_Sprinkles121@reddit
It’s all about timing. Shits gonna happen you just want to be as senior as you can be when it hits the fan.
No-Solid9108@reddit
Now u can fly in Microsoft's Fleet !
No-Solid9108@reddit
Learn to fly in the military. Get promoted in war time , but let go after the war . Nobody needs more pilots who used to be active in the military.
Gold-Weather_69@reddit
Come join the club and you’ll find out first hand. 😁
Status_Climate_6860@reddit
After reading the thread, I think I might have picked a wrong career. But I like to fly so who cares I guess.
Otherwise-Pen70@reddit
Airlines are the "Canary in the Coal Mine" Industry. When the economy is not going well, they are the first ones to feel it. When this Happens the Airlines asks for "givebacks" mostly a pay-cut. When that does not stop the flow of bleeding money, they start furloughing. That is why people state "you live and die by your seniority number - High number, you stay employed. In my 32 years with my airline I witnessed this 3 times in my Career, but I had a high seniority number and never got furloughed or bumped back a seat position but did give back money - lots of it in 2003.
SilentPlatypus_@reddit
I felt like I finally had stability when I got hired by a major airline. I had made it through the CFI and regional slog, I had been just senior enough to avoid the great recession furlough at my regional, and I got out before the doors closed there. Love it or hate it I was on the seniority list at an airline that was too big to fail, and my future was finally secured.
About 14 months later covid hit and I got my first industry furlough letter.
swa73driver@reddit
People got into it for the wrong reasons.
Angling_Insights@reddit
One word that strikes fear into every commercial/atp:
Deferred….
AceofdaBase@reddit
2007 got hired at the regionals with 2600 hours. Missed the growth phase. Sat 7 years in right seat at $35/hr. Didn’t hit 6 figures until after 14 years of part 121 flying. Wanted to quit to become a nurse but you actually have to be smart to do that
SevenFortySwole@reddit
I have been flying for 6 years and even in just 6 years its been a wild ride. Couldn't find work in covid, had to take a job that didn't pay well and moved to middle of nowhere across the country for it. Second job was a a questionable 91 operation that lasted 6 months and got laid off. Third job was doing a 5 leg commute for a regional before all the big pay raises hit. Fourth job was working for spirit and they laid me off. fifth job was flying for Kalitta, and while that job was stable it was a very hard on my overall health and QOL. I have now just made it a legacy and with fuel doing what its doing wouldnt be all to shocked if another downturn occurs. This industry is only doing well when overall economy is doing well. People dont travel when they cant afford other things in life. Secondly every 10 years something happens in this industry and sets it back by 3ish. 2001 9/11, 2008 housing crisis, 2020 Covid.
monkeyjuggler@reddit
It took me a while to understand that it didn't matter how good I was, just how lucky I was.
Chappietime@reddit
A friend got hired by United right before Covid. He had to wait a year to get a class date, but 5 years later, he is top 50% or so seniority (meaning they’d have to furlough many thousand pilots before he got furloughed). He had a line and could have basically any base he wanted and had a captain upgrade offer after 3 years.
He had an IOE Captain that got hired right before 9/11. That guy sat reserve for 11 years and made Captain after 17. I may be misremembering the numbers a little, but the point is timing is everything.
ltcterry@reddit
“Hiring continues until the furloughs start.”
All good humor has a core of truth.
junebug172@reddit
When the economy catches a cold, the airline industry gets pneumonia.
lainposter@reddit
My brother and a buddy of mine keep hounding me to get into the airlines, saying it'll pay hand over first over other jobs. But it seems like they're looking at their winning lottery tickets and telling me to go buy my own. It kinda pisses me off, cuz I want to believe I might find success in 121 but shit dude, it really doesn't seem like I have any odds. Like they made it to the other side of a mine field and keep coaxing me to cross alongside them
elijahcookiemuhamad@reddit
Half of the regionals that were around when I was going through training now cease to exsist
Ancient_Narwhal_9524@reddit
Just look at the history of airlines in the US over the last 50 years. Eastern, Continental, Northwest, TWA, Pan-Am, ATA, ASA, Comair, etc. Where are they now?
In an industry where seniority is everything it really sucks if you have to start over somewhere else. Merging seniority list after a buyout is also usually pretty unpleasant for the pilots of the airline that is getting absorbed by the larger company.
Wheels322@reddit
1) you could have a medical event at any time and lose your medical license and your ability to fly
2) you could fail some sort of check ride, and maybe it won't even be your fault, and you could lose your ability to fly
3) random economic occurrences like "Trump decides to start a war" or "the boss decides to sell the plane" happen, and you could lose your job at any time
If you're going to be a pilot, you must have a backup plan
gromm93@reddit
What's your backup plan?
bowleshiste@reddit
Two main things make it unstable: medical dependency and furloughs.
Your career relies entirely on your ability to pass a medical exam. While not particularly difficult to pass, there is a myriad of things that can easily disqualify you. A lot of these things could occur due to no fat of your own. You could be one of the healthiest people in the company and one day you have a heart attack or a seizure, and best case scenario, you're spending tens of thousands of dollars while unemployed for a few years hoping to get a special issuance. Worst case scenario you lose your medical, and your career, altogether.
Furloughs/layoffs are the other main issue. The industry ebbs and flows with travel trends. In the last 25 years we have seen at least two major furlough/layoff events that have resulted in the majority of the industry losing their jobs. You could be several years into a major and another mismanaged pandemic occurs and you gotta go deliver pizzas to make ends meet.
Another issue is bankruptcies. Airlines go out of business all the time. Seniority is king in this industry so people tend to stay at a company for a while. Pick the wrong company and they just happen to go out of business, you're out a job along with a couple thousand other pilots and you're all clawing for the now smaller amount of jobs that are left elsewhere. If you're lucky enough to get one of those other jobs, you've lost all seniority and your QoL goes down the drain
bergler82@reddit
Europe. I‘m on my 5th AOC now with my 5th base. Stable? Nothing is stable
TravelerMSY@reddit
Go look at what happened to a lot of pilots post 911.
CryOfTheWind@reddit
In 20+ years I've had 2 companies go bankrupt on me while I was working there. The 2008 economic crash saw me driving a fuel truck for 2 years because flying was down so much (was at one of those bankrupt companies).
Can be tough to even break into the industry in the first place. I spent 6 years trying to find a flying job. One opportunity after another fell through and pure perseverance and willpower to not give up was all that saw me through those years.
Any time you have to switch companies you go to the bottom again. This isn't like other industries where you switch companies to increase salary or other advancements. Sure after a few years you climb back up but it's peak and trough graph of increasing rather that linear with no guarantees when that next peak will happen.
Covid I was in essential services flying so was not impacted but for many others that was a 2 year black hole that no one could have predicted.
That's just off the top of my head about how unstable things can be. That's without even touching the medical side.
dogbreath67@reddit
Well you could spend 10 years at a regional airline and then get hired by a LCC and then not know whether you’ll be able to get picked up by a major which would pay you millions more over the course of your career, while people with less experience are getting hired in droves.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
Lose your medical and lose your job…. How’s that for stability
I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS@reddit
Loads of pilots got furloughed and/or laid off during covid. The same happened after 9/11. Airlines also go bust all the time for reasons not related to any global crisis - Monarch, Flybe, Norwegian, Thomas Cook to name some examples. Each company going bust leaves potentially hundreds of qualified, experienced pilots all looking for new jobs at the same time, saturating the market.
Ted_Striker02@reddit
Just look at what’s going on with spirit and the once 3500 pilots that worked there. 6 years ago they were crushing it and plans to double in size. Now they might not make it to the end of the week. Plus everything else people have mentioned
humboldtreign@reddit
Corporate pilot? One day your boss tells you they’re selling the airplane.
Arkin3375@reddit
Fly for a dirtbag carrier making 36k a year, flying 4 to 6 legs a day, just to finally make it to your “retirement” gig only to have the company hit financial hardship.
You never make it off reserve. They freeze base bidding. They displace you four times. They send you three WARN notices and eventually gift you a furlough, so now you’re out flying rubber dog shit around the country.
Ope, now they’re recalling us and if I don’t go back I lose half my net worth in 401k, seniority, and hey, they’re probably going to force me to move again?! Can’t stop winning BB.
Several-Village5814@reddit
You could be a 12 year Spirit captain making 350k a year and get hired at American a year later and start over from year 1 seniority again as a first officer.
OzrielArelius@reddit
ups and downs cause we fly up and then down! whenever someone asks me "how's work?" that's what I say; "oh you know, it's up and down!"
so maybe you've just been hearing that a lot from other pilots. cause this industry is known to be super stable and everyone keeps their jobs and pensions and is basically economy proof
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
Ever heard of the word “furlough”?
Apparently not
RBR927@reddit
Yes. Yes. More yes.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I heard people say it’s not stable and the aviation industry has its moments with the economy.
But does that just mean hiring wise it has its ups and downs?
Do pilots get made redundant often for example?
Or anything else
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