Why are E-scooters so prevalent?
Posted by SexyMuthaFunka@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 317 comments
How are so many people blatantly buying and riding e-scooters in the UK when they could have them confiscated at any time. And equally . . why AREN'T they getting confiscated. The police seem to just ignore them.
Mental_Body_5496@reddit
We need a new law on e-scooters:
No pavements
Must wear a helmet with a rear light on it
Must have a front white light
Must be registered in the new system
Must have 3rd party insurance
Must pass a 1 day course *like moped cbt
Must pass a simplified theory test
Must have a provisional driving livence
Nipso@reddit
Why should e-scooters be subject to laws that don't apply to e-bikes?
Mental_Body_5496@reddit
We aren't talking about e-bikes?
Yes they should have the same rules.
The only exception is probably a Copenhagen wheel if under a certain power output fitted to a standard manual bike.
Wheelchairs and mobility scooters also need updated regulations.
My daughters Wheelchair is pretty much an e-scooter with a padded seat !
Nipso@reddit
No, but most of your suggestions don't apply to e-bikes, so you'd need to justify applying different rules to them.
Mental_Body_5496@reddit
And?
Yes lets change ALL powered personal machines?
I don't have a problem with that.
As I said wheelchairs and mobility scooters need an overhall as well.
Nipso@reddit
Alright, why?
Mental_Body_5496@reddit
To protect people both using them and injured by them.
Mobile_Tap_4553@reddit
Why do they put out e-scooters that you can rent for an amount of time and ride around the city but say they're banned for anyone who wants to ride their own one? Makes no sense. Either allow them or ban them roads completely
BrightPomelo@reddit
Because the rental ones have a controlled top speed. And, I'd hope, insurance.
Mobile_Tap_4553@reddit
They should change the laws around it then, allow people to ride their own scooter if they have insurance.
muh-soggy-knee@reddit
That last part is the actual answer.
The problem is simple; but without legislation, intractable.
e-Scooters have no type approval; but are a motor vehicle.
Without type approval insurance on a personal level is effectively impossible. Being a motor vehicle they do require insurance for the road.
These schemes get around that by scale and id imagine the liberal use of secondary legislation. Ultimately the idea is to test the water to see what effect legalising these for road use would have.
The perception problem people have in the main is that they don't recognise e-Scooters as a motor vehicle. Which is why Ryan, 22 ans ends up in the magistrates court for drinks driving and thinks it's ridiculous till he gets his ban and realises how serious it is.
bacon_cake@reddit
God this country is so infuriatingly awkward sometimes.
I'm happy to hear out why it can't be done, and I try not to be dogmatic or simplistic, but surely this issue could be fixed pretty simply.
New legislation: E-scooters, defined as blah blah blah, now need liability insurance, but do not require MOTs or inspection.
Done.
I see them all day every day, and it's not just kids, I see professional people riding them to work every day. If they were legalised it would probably pull a decent number of cars off the road.
dropmiddleleaves@reddit
They’ve planned to do this a number of times but it’s one of those controversial things with little political gain. People don’t like new things.
muh-soggy-knee@reddit
Oh I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying it can't be done without parliamentary action.
I'd imagine part of the reason is that while it's fairly undoubtable that increasing the use of low cost EVs such as bikes and scooters could have substantial benefits in urban transit it's also the case that:
A: It does actually require careful consideration of long term second order effects; something our governments of the last 50 years have been famously incapable of doing
B: It benefits people in less than obvious ways and so the benefit is long tailed and not necessarily recognised
C: It does actually have some downsides in terms of traffic management that are instantaneous and likely to be the parts highlighted in the media
And D: The public perception of these devices is that they are toys for tossers and phone thieves. Groups not especially in receipt of public sympathy.
justsomerabbit@reddit
That's already the status quo.
The issue is that you can't get insurance.
pafrac@reddit
It might be the status quo, but it's still illegal, that's why insurance is not available.
Mental_Body_5496@reddit
No its the other way around - you cant get insurance therefore they are illegal - if you could get insurance they wouldnt be illegal!
lmprice133@reddit
But the reason they are uninsurable is because they haven't got type approval to be used on the road.
Mental_Body_5496@reddit
The rental companies get insurance on them?
lmprice133@reddit
Because those rental schemes have been run as part of government-approved trials.
veryblocky@reddit
I think you misunderstand slightly. Insurance isn’t available because they’re illegal, rather it’s the other way around. They’re illegal because they’re uninsured. (And untaxed and unregistered)
pafrac@reddit
No, they're explicitly illegal because they're considered powered vehicles under UK law, which do not meet the criteria for type approval for use on UK roads. As a result of that they cannot be registered, taxed, or insured, which just adds to the illegality.
Make them legal, say I, even if there's a few hoops to jump through.
Direct_Lawfulness_28@reddit
Unless you’re renting one from said government, which despite YES you can buy high powered ones but the EXACT same models used by the city ones that are perfectly fine to ride around on apparently ARE ALSO ILLEGAL FOR US. but not when it’s rented in a densely populated city, do what the fuck you like but buy the same one to use in your rural town? Confiscated and charged.
Rover45Driver@reddit
Years ago I can remember reading on a forum someone's story about buying one of those 2 stroke petrol kits for push bikes and jumping through all the hoops to get it road legal, it needed indicators, mirrors, brake lights, a horn, headlights to the specific pattern and all sorts but he managed to get it through single vehicle approval, or so he claimed. It was probably given a Q plate. I'm sure with effort it's still possible to modify an e scooter to do the same but it's significantly easier to just buy, tax and insure a proper electric moped.
Gellert@reddit
I'm betting that by the time he was done he would've been better off getting a normal motorbike though.
Rover45Driver@reddit
Definitely. It was more of a project to see if it could be done than anything sensible.
Scared-One9295@reddit
What and be just like every other little old lady out on their Ninja or 'busa? My nan had nitrous on hers, I wouldn't be seen dead on it
RipCurl69Reddit@reddit
Yes!!! I'd gladly tax, insure, and go through a day course for an e-scooter. I've been riding them since I was a kid, but stopped in 2021 when mine got nicked. Utter shame. I won't get another one because if the coppers try and confiscate it, I know I'll get arsey over it because again, I'd gladly insure it if the option was available.
It's all a scheme to get you onto their private hire ones, which are a straight up scam and you're better off just buying a bike.
dragoneggboy22@reddit
Nonsense
BillWilberforce@reddit
So give them licence plates and introduce the legal framework to insure them. They're not insured, not because insurers don't want to insure them but because they can't. It also makes no sense to restrict them to 14.5MPH if they're road legal.
RealLongwayround@reddit
They would also need lights an appropriate height from the road.
BillWilberforce@reddit
push bikes have legally needed lights at night since the dawn of time.
RealLongwayround@reddit
Untrue: there was no such requirement until well after the arrival of the motor car, however you may notice that pedal cycles can have them fitted a decent height off the ground. The highest point at the rear of an e-scooter is about 10 cm off the ground.
TyrannosauraRegina@reddit
You could require the light on the rider.
RealLongwayround@reddit
Sure, but it’s not just one light. Indicators and a brake lights are also a requirement for type approval.
TyrannosauraRegina@reddit
Couldn’t they use hand signals, same as bikes (including e bikes)?
RealLongwayround@reddit
Not in order to get type approval.
BillWilberforce@reddit
It's not the lack of indicators that the problem. It's the lack of lights. A hand signal doesn't fix that problem.
No-Translator5443@reddit
Even if you could get insurance the people that don’t care wouldn’t get it anyway just like the ones that drive cars without it
seklas1@reddit
Opening up a whole bag of worms. How do you check who has insurance and who doesn’t? Most who ride bikes probably don’t have insurance either, unless they’re above certain value.
It’s the situation where it’s illegal to own your own scooter, but nobody’s actually enforcing it, so instead of paying a rental fee, people just buy their own, as it’s way cheaper over a longer period of time as the current situation is a mess and renting being the only option is just wrong.
wibble089@reddit
In Germany eScooters (and especially high powered E-Bikes that you can use without pedaling) come under "moped" style regulations.
There's no registration as such, but they require an annual insurance identity plate to be attached at the back of the vehicle. The plate's colour changes every year, so it's easy to immediately see if the vehicle has valid insurance.
I never understood why something like this isn't possible in the UK too.
seklas1@reddit
England still uses house valuation values from 1991. I really don’t think doing yearly license plate swaps (and expecting people to not just get fake ones instead) would work here. Different cultures.
SpaceMonkeyAttack@reddit
We used to have to put a new tax disc in our car windscreens every year, that seemed to work fine.
wibble089@reddit
That's a great analogy!
danddersson@reddit
Yes, insurance, gps fencing, speed control, you have to have a licence to hire one, they are built and maintained to a standard, and they can be monitored by GPS.
Rentals are NOTHING LIKE privately bought scooters.
SeaweedOk9985@reddit
Yeah they are worse. You can ride one without any pride or care people generally have for privately owned things. They are around town where people drink, so you can get a taxi to a pub and then in your inebriated lowed inhibition state decide a scooter is a good idea.
All the benefits are on paper only.
If bicycles were invented today they would be illegal to own privately. Thank fuck they came out when they did.
LowAspect542@reddit
The rentals are tracable to users, to rent one you need an account and the company will provide these details to police on request if youve been misbehaving on/with the rental scooters. In comparison, private scootoers dont have licenceing or registration requirements, they can also be stolen or otherwise used by someone other than the owner making it difficult to track a user of private scooters.
Direct_Lawfulness_28@reddit
Unless you’re renting one from said government, which despite YES you can buy high powered ones but the EXACT same models used by the city ones that are perfectly fine to ride around on apparently ARE ALSO ILLEGAL FOR US. but not when it’s rented in a densely populated city, do what the fuck you like but buy the same one to use in your rural town? Confiscated and charged.
And no, the rented ones can’t have insurance. THEY ARE ILLEGAL remember? 😂😂😂 public liability insurance is all the council can have and even then, so can individuals but we still can’t get our own 😂
Exact-Way-9940@reddit
I have noticed a lot for sale hete are speed regulated, most of the ones in the UK are limited to around 15.5 miles per hour or whatever the EU rules on them are.
Atompunk78@reddit
Yeah but you can so easily change the limiter, or just buy one without
Same goes for ebikes but they’re more expensive, more controllable at high speed, and idk, people don’t as often ride them like dickheads vs scooters
72dk72@reddit
Same goes for Mopeds :-)
BigFatSue_@reddit
People don’t often ride electric bikes like dickheads?
Atompunk78@reddit
That’s very clearly not what I said
BigFatSue_@reddit
Sorry it was difficult to decipher your comment because you type you have a brain injury
Polarwarrior@reddit
That’s like saying why make cars that go over 70mph when it’s the highest speed limit on our roads.
Atompunk78@reddit
No it isn’t ahahah, can you really not see any difference between these?
trigodo@reddit
Whole Europe can use e-scooters without this bollock your talking about. But in here is somehow an issue 🤦♂️
Atompunk78@reddit
The whole of Europe does many things, you’re just as aware as me that that doesn’t justify it lmfao
DotComprehensive4902@reddit
True
2coatsFletch@reddit
Plus a registration number and proper lights for road use. Don't get me wrong i hate these things as the riders are reckless af, but this is why rentels are deemed road worthy.
RegularMidLifeCrisis@reddit
Private cars don't have a controlled top speed. Scooters should be insurable like in modern European countries.
BrightPomelo@reddit
Cars are driven by those who have passed a driving test. Pay VED and have to be insured too. And have number plates to identify them, should they break the law.
sjw_7@reddit
The ones built here are all limited to 15mph its the ones that people import that end up being unlimited.
There is no reason they cant legislate to keep them in line with e-bikes which are limited to 15mph. For some reason they keep faffing about though so we are in a daft situation where they are everywhere but illegal to use.
davehemm@reddit
And serviced and lights and most likely a safe battery, also need a driving licence.
Astonednerd@reddit
Exact same argument could be made about electric bikes. They're legal for private ownership so why is a scooter different?
LV426_Tourism_Board@reddit
A legal e-bike is motor assisted only, you still have to pedal. Vehicles with a throttle are treated differently.
uk-1234@reddit
From a safety perspective what difference does it make if you’re pedalling or not? 15mph is 15mph. Seems a daft rule.
bowak@reddit
Wheel size is a big difference.
Delete_Yourself_@reddit
? Everything is determined by the power output of the motor and top speed. I've never once seen wheel size enter the discussion.
bowak@reddit
I was just meaning in the overall safety sense compared to scooters.
Delete_Yourself_@reddit
Ah OK, that make sense
uk-1234@reddit
Agreed. But that’s still unrelated to pedalling.
MashedPotatoBurrito_@reddit
I just thing it's some weird legal logic going on. Admittedly wheel size makes it easier to control but I think it may fall under the fact that someone already pedalling hard may reach that speed regardless. Limiting the speed means you can have more speed with decent control and less wobbling, instead of going too fast and being thrown off with little effort.
I personally ride an e-mtb and it helps a lot on marked trails
adamlbrown3@reddit
From a safety perspective what difference does it make if it's assisted or not? 15mph is 15mph
Exact-Way-9940@reddit
This is a good point, it could be argued a normal bicycle is safer than ebike or scooter cause it will be lighter without the battery but the pedal assist ebikes are just as heavy and fast as ones with throttles as they will have a battery and motor too.
El_Zilcho@reddit
In the UK you are allowed to have throttle operation up to 3.7mph and up 15mph in pedal assist mode.
LV426_Tourism_Board@reddit
Walking speed yes. It’s designed to help you walk it up a hill and stuff like that. It’s incredibly difficult to actually ride it at that speed without wobbling around unless you have perfect balance.
MembershipKey1520@reddit
So if you're under 5 then 👍
Ieatsand97@reddit
Gonna be honest, no throttle and 3.7 mph top speed throttle isn’t really that much of a difference. Like compared to something like a car with 150 mph throttle its effectively nothing.
I thought it was also for those cargo bike things so its easier to get moving.
Smooth_Leadership895@reddit
Under UK law it has to be speed limited to 15.5mph and the motor cannot provide no more than 250w of power. Plus thumb throttles on e-bikes are technically illegal too.
Astonednerd@reddit
Why not just introduce similar restrictions around speed and power on e scooters then?
Buddy-Matt@reddit
And also maintenence.
GamerGypps@reddit
The do, the insurance is the main bit.
AgitatedAntman@reddit
It’s simply a case of they never got round to legislating for them. Most western countries have legalised them. Christ, even Australia has allowed them and they ban everything. It’s a waste of police time to go after them when it feels inevitable they will get round to legalising them eventually
eventworker@reddit
It makes absolute sense if you read UK based reddit pages.
The majority of brits seem to be fine with the scooters, they just don't want people they dislike being able to own them.
Mdann52@reddit
There's explicit regulations exempting these from a number of Road Traffic requirements - see SI 2026/663, although these have been altered since.
These apply to designated areas, so you cannot use a trial escooter everywhere!
As to why it hasn't been expanded? The Government are consulting on this, however it's not a quick process.
CrustyHumdinger@reddit
Because the rental ones are speed limited and safe
AllThatIHaveDone@reddit
Liability and maintenance. If you hit someone with a rented scooter, in theory the person who hit you is the owner of the account, so if they run they can be traced. A privately-owned scooter is registered to no one. A rented scooter will have someone checking the brakes (such as they are) and the battery.
dbxp@reddit
Bikes including assisted bikes don't have to be registered
gardenfella@reddit
E-bikes that don't need to be pedalled or are assisted past 15mph need to be registered, taxed and have a valid MOT
MembershipKey1520@reddit
Yes but thar doesn't happen or get enforced.
AdventurousPlan9964@reddit
Recently it has, alongside police walking around with bike speed tester
adamlbrown3@reddit
How are they going to test that? You can still bike faster than 15.5mph, it just won't assist you beyond that
AmbiiX@reddit
When I bought my ebike, it came with a card that has the bike specifications. Its a German bike but its been made 'road legal' for the UK with autobrakes and a limiter. The police will definitely pull you over, they did to me. They tested my speed, saw I was at 15.5 and immediately stopped me when I peddled over. I gave them the card, they looked up the bike and saw it has a certificate and let me go. I think what gets me noticed is that I have to ride on roads which blocks traffic in my community because we have no bike lanes.
Still, love my ebike. Gone well over 100 miles with it already.
iwantfutanaricumonme@reddit
First on a road legal ebike the manufacturer of the bike and information about the sustained power of the motor and the voltage of the battery has to be displayed somewhere on the bike, so they can check for that. Secondly they portable device with a treadmill that can check if the motor cuts off at the correct speed. I'm not sure how they would do that on a bike without a throttle though.
MembershipKey1520@reddit
They don't appear to be enforcing the law widely. When I was in Wembley area of London 2 years ago I was amazed at the number of high speed (illegal) electric bikes flying around on roads & pavements. What was more shocking was that half the ones whizzing around in busy traffic at night, in the dark, had no lights or hi viz while zooming in & out dodging buses, cars & taxis (organ donors to be). Half the guys on the pavements were using lights. Mental.
PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit
15.5mph, just to be pedantic! It comes from EU legislation, which states 25kmph.
AllThatIHaveDone@reddit
Yeah, but the law doesn't consider eScooters and assisted bikes to be the same thing.
Pleasant-Put5305@reddit
Plenty of very high speed ebikes too. Much worse in fact if you get hit by one of them...
Stage_Party@reddit
What about the dude I always see going past my workplace while I wait for a bus?
He's on a unicycle going about 30-40mph. Fucking. Mental.
nrsys@reddit
The reality is that the rental schemes are acting as the experiments that will affect future changes in the laws regarding e-scooters.
Currently e-bikes and e-scooters exist in a grey area that the laws is not built to legislate - the closest thing to an electric scooter when the laws were written was probably a Sinclair C5, so those laws need updated to match the current technology we have available, but that takes time to do appropriately and safely.
So for the moment e-scooters fall into a black hole, but once they have been better evaluated, changes will be made to suit.
MoonlightStarfish@reddit
The thing is it feels like the experiments have gone on long enough. If you can’t evaluate something in 5 years you bureaucracy is getting in the way.
jimmybiggles@reddit
as other commenters have said, they're speed limited, GPS tracked (at least via the app, idk if the actual scooters have GPS built in), and have insurance so that they are road legal (which is why you have to provide a valid license to use them)
i'd love for personal use to become legal on public ground. i'm a law abiding citizen so it's the only thing stopping me!
however, i'm sure all of the big companies that have a monopoly on them will be lobbying against escooters becoming legal... though i never use the rental ones (unless i'm abroad) as they're way too expensive and inconvenient IMO.
Remote-Pool7787@reddit
The rental ones are only a pilot scheme. They are insured and are much, much heavier which makes them safer. If you want to ride around on a lightweight electric vehicle completely legally then buy a mobility scooter
Pocket_Aces1@reddit
Because they're legislated. They are throttle/speed limited, and have deals in place for how they should be stored (not that they exactly follow them).
The companies also have massive amounts of public liability insurance incase of an incident which caused damage/harm.
Personal e-scooters are legally allowed on private land, but not public, just like how electric bikes with a throttle and such, that can do 60+mph are legal on private land, but a danger in public, to other members of the public.
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
Insurance.
torihe@reddit
It’s to do with insurance. The big companies have liability insurance. Although, it doesn’t mean much as when you sign up you confirm you wear a helmet, haven’t been drinking and follow rules etc but there is no checking done.
SeaweedOk9985@reddit
1) We have police via discretion in the UK. The Police are not legally compelled to act on every instance of law breaking they see, and frankly this is the best way to actually work with the public.
2) Scooters are a cheap form of transport and frankly are a god send for getting to work if you live somewhat close to work.
3) It's one of those situations where a dumb political class has just dragged their feet against the desires of the public. Many other countries have made private ownership legal with set rules and regulations. In the UKk it's just the defacto with the only alternative seemingly designed specifically to make escooters look worse.
Imagine if private car ownership was banned, and you could instead rent a car for £10 a journey. It would be mayhem.
Nigelthornfruit@reddit
You mad bro?
SexyMuthaFunka@reddit (OP)
Nope. Want to get one myself and wondering if I can realistically get away with it.
Nigelthornfruit@reddit
I joined the club. I have an e bike but there is a big risk of theft. So a scooter is slightly better as you can take it in shops , the only small risk is if a rare police officer steals it instead. But due to the lower cost it makes sense.
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
You do see them getting confiscated but the law needs amending. Either make them legal with insurance or ban the import, sales and use with the police being given the money to deal with them. I’d have one tomorrow if they were legal.
Careless_Soup_109@reddit
It's mad, when you consider that you can get ebikes that are essentially motorbikes with chunky tyres and heavy frames... And they are fully legal, no tax and insurance. Yet remove the token pedals and it's suddenly a police issue
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
Only the slow ones are legal. The faster ones are still illegal.
PleasantCucumber2615@reddit
I've never understood people's hatred of electric scooters. I can't even think of a single incident I have encountered with one.
I don't think they are a big problem at all. I'm all for encouraging their usage and getting people out of cars.
There are too many young kids on them without helmets though. If their parents are buying them a scooter they should also be buying a helmet.
thelornabee@reddit
They are a nightmare for sight impaired individuals. Not only do they get left strewn across pavements but alao you can't hear them coming. My brother who is registered visually impaired absolutely despises them, they make him very nervous walking around town centres. They often make me jump when someone suddenly wizzies past me on one.
PleasantCucumber2615@reddit
The thread is about people buying e-scooters.People that have bought them aren't leaving them lying over the streets.
Having seen pictures of the hired e-bikes and e-scooters thrown about the streets it looks more an act of mindless vandalism than user abuse.
thelornabee@reddit
I think privately owned e-scooters are even more dangerous. They may not be strewn in the streets but they are virtually silent and can go much quicker speeds. I'm not totally against them, but they need proper legislation and also need to make them a bit more audible on the streets.
Indecisive-Gamer@reddit
We can't just limit everyone for a few visibly impaired people. Lot's of things suck for visually impaired. Even roads and cars.
thelornabee@reddit
It's not about limiting everyone it's about making things more accessible and helping people feel safe. I imagine it's not just visually impaired people but that's what I have experience with.
PleasantCucumber2615@reddit
It's very rare to see one faster than the 15.5mph limit of the hire ones. We are into a different conversation with some of the ones that are too quick.
It would be good to see more cycle lanes where these scooters could be used for commuting leaving the paths safe for people especially with hearing problems. The lack of noise otherwise is a good thing. Same with bicycles, e-bikes and EVs.
thelornabee@reddit
I agree. But unfortunately where I am it's not uncommon to see ones exceeding the speed, that's why I personally get so wound up about but as you say a different conversation. More cycle lanes would be a fantastic solution and agree that less noise is a good thing. I just find I cannot detect an e-scooter coming where as bikes, and even e-bikes, I know they are there.
UnacceptableUse@reddit
The relatively low barrier of entry means that people ride them without helmets, they ride through red lights and on pavements, they ride drunk or whilst looking at their phones and they ride with two or three people on sometimes. Plenty of people don't do those things and just use them as a convinient way to get around, but the bad apples get all the headlines.
PleasantCucumber2615@reddit
People pass a driving test to prove they are competent to drive, spend thousands on a car, yet still commit all those offences. Replace helmets with not wearing seatbelts.
Not following the highway code, not behaving like an idiot doesn't come down to the low entry point.
UnacceptableUse@reddit
I have no data to back this up but I'd wager a higher percentage of people with e-scooters drive them unsafely than cars. Also, if you crash a car you're more protected than on an e-scooter
BigFatSue_@reddit
How many people have died from e-scooter crashes so far this year?
eventworker@reddit
German stats for 2024 have 27 people killed in accidents involving e-scooters, from 11,500 'reported accidents'.
However, the more interesting thing is that from those 11,500 accidents, only 27% had any form of injury come from them.
eventworker@reddit
Almost certainly not. Driving an e-scooter requires far more physical attention, has no possibility of distraction from within the vehicle and crucially, you can't cause much damage with an e-scooter.
Assuming you are speaking comparatively to an e-scooter, and therefore mean at low speeds, you don't really need protection - and on an e-scooter you are positioned to deal with an impact in the split second before it happens by jumping off.
PleasantCucumber2615@reddit
I'm not sure about that.
The fear people have with scooters is they'll crash into them. The concern isn't for the scooter rider.
Being hit by a car is going to hurt a lot more than by a scooter.
eventworker@reddit
Funny thing, almost all these issues disappear with private ownership!
pasta-disaster@reddit
You could say exactly the same about bicycles and it would be 100% true so why are they still illegal?? But then if bicycles were invented tomorrow they would be banned immediately so I guess we just can’t have nice things
UnacceptableUse@reddit
Bicycles require you to at least be fit enough to pedal fast enough to be dangerous
Indecisive-Gamer@reddit
Lol I can go way faster on a bike than 15mph and I am a fat fuck.
UnacceptableUse@reddit
Downhill?
BigFatSue_@reddit
You do not need to be fit at all to get up to a dangerous speed on a bike
daneview@reddit
Theyre not powered is the big difference, same as how skateboards are legal
PleasantCucumber2615@reddit
Yet e-bikes are also legal and they are powered.
If I was to be in collision with something, I'd rather be hit by a little scooter and not someone doing the same speed, if not faster, on a heavy bike.
daneview@reddit
Well, only pedal assisted ones. Most of the electric bikes you see on the street seem to be the illegal ones too which I also think needs cracking down on.
If you dont need to pedal it, its a motorbike imo
Indecisive-Gamer@reddit
Pedal assisted or not, it really isn't any different. It takes 0 effort to go 15mph on a ebike.
PleasantCucumber2615@reddit
No they aren't.
Pedal assist or not the end result is a bike can easily go over the 15.5mph that most scooters go. It is very easy for a very average cyclist to pedal at 15.5mph on a flat surface. Downhill you can double that.
Some of the pedal assist legal e-bikes are the worst. Even though they make the legal requirement they are poor quality. They weigh far too much, have poor brakes and components..
daneview@reddit
Also bear in mind that bicycles of any sort are meant to be in the road, not on the pavement, so shouldnt be causing pedestrians issues if used properly.
Im not even sure where e scooters/scooters are meant to go
Asuperniceguy2@reddit
You could say it about cars. People drive pissed whilst looking at their phones thousands of times a day.
littlebird2446@reddit
You can’t grasp how they might be an issue in certain areas?
They’re fucking awful on council estates. Idiot lads zooming past people on the pavement. Circling people outside my local Asda.
I think scooters are great though. As usually males ruin a good thing by acting like dicks.
MembershipKey1520@reddit
The parents are helmets.
mbe220@reddit
The police don’t have the resources to enforce all legislation so the law is there to keep the law abiding honest whilst the rest do as they like.
monstrao@reddit
Life hack: for your daily work commute, dress as a road man and ride a high powered E bike with no insurance or registration. Save £££
OwnUse237@reddit
Most people are just riding them to work, not everyone on one is a drug dealing reprobate
MountainMuffin1980@reddit
Because they aren't illegal to buy/sell (yet...). And Police probably don't really have a safe way to stop and catch someone riding one, so don't.
I am surprised we've not seen more injuries and deaths on them tbh.
wongl888@reddit
The police cannot even catch all the 300,000 untaxed and uninsured cars on UK roads. I don’t think they will have time to catch an E-bike especially on foot.
MyDadsGlassesCase@reddit
Which is just insane. We know all the cars that are taxed. We know wll the cars that are insured. We know all the cars that are MOT'd. We know all the cars that are out there (most of them). It cant be hard to do a vlookup, feed it into an ANPR system and watch the notifications pile up.
And I know a lot of cars have those bullshit "4D" number plates which avoid ANPR but they are so obvious that police should be smacking tickets on any car they pass with them
eventworker@reddit
You should see almost every other country. UK Police are absolutely on it in this regard.
Dazzling_Shallot_363@reddit
"We know all the cars that are taxed"
Only certain police powers exist to deal with untaxed vehicles. The DVLA have the power to do this and grant some officers in some forces some powers to deal with it if its been untaxed more than 2 months. Government legislation makes it clear its a DVLA issue
"We know all the cars that are insured and MOTd"
We do regularly deal with this issue and the fine for driving without either is a significant punishment.
"It cant be hard to do a Vlookup and feed this into an ANPR camera"
More or less, this is exactly what happens. The problem is the lack of ANPR cameras. Whenever attempts are made to increase ANPR e.c.t theres OUTCRY from the public as we are now living in a woke surveillance state e.c.t
There is also the problem that to deal with someone for no insurance takes easily over an hour if the recovery firm comes within the specified time (thats not even including CTO, court summons e.c.t) and with years of bleeding police resources dry both on RPU and in general, its quite litterally impossible to pull over every ping.
"4d number plates to avoid anpr"
A legal 4D plate gets read by ANPR just fine, i believe you are referring to Ghost plates, which are very much illegal and are very much dealt with frequently
MyDadsGlassesCase@reddit
Thanks for that reply. Some good reading and info in there.
See the 4D plates, I thought all number plates that didn't have the standard font were illegal, no? So the 3D, 4D and 5D (fuck knows but its a thing in my local hardware shop) are all legal as long as ANPR can read them?
Dazzling_Shallot_363@reddit
Im not a traffic cop, and im sure theres someone ready to correct me on this.
They have to meet a very specific standard that basically dictates the font, reflectiveness, size, spacing etc. As long as they meet that requirement, ANPR can read it in the same way a parking enforcement or speed camera can. Information on police ANPR is kept hush hush so i cant speak for the ability to read them specifically, but what i can say is having a modified plate not only screams Yob, it is also easily recognisable by officers for better or worse
MotherTemporary903@reddit
I saw a woman crash/fall off one on the road as she was driving it and tapping on her phone at the same time. Right in front of 2 police officers. They helped her get up and sent her on her merry way. Absolutely ridiculous.
BigFatSue_@reddit
Did you want her arrested?
MotherTemporary903@reddit
There are such things as fines, no? Confiscating illegal vehicle? I'm sure there's a range of options between nothing and an arrest.
MountainMuffin1980@reddit
I guess it's a lot of time and paperwork for them for very little "good"? I mean, yeah I'd prefer they actually confiscated the thing, but I imagine the person will just buy a new one. They aren't really overly expensive.
And then those coppers will have to fill out paperwork and all sorts leaving them stretched to respond tolre serious issues. I suppose it's more of a capacity issue than anything. Like I'm also glad they don't harass and arrest every single person puffing weed these days.
MotherTemporary903@reddit
I think people are missing that this person was on the road, driving a vehicle, whilst on the phone. Lost control of said vehicle. Yes, she luckily only injured herself this time, but that might not be the case next time.
People complain that nobody gives a fuck anymore and anti social behaviour is rampant and not dealt with. But oh-no, poor police would have to do paperwork for something that's not "serious enough"!
MountainMuffin1980@reddit
Oh I'm not excusing it, it's bullshit she faced no repurcussion. I'd be as annoyed as you if I'd witnessed it.
BigFatSue_@reddit
Get a life
MotherTemporary903@reddit
Thanks for your input. Drive your e-scooter safe!
WGD23@reddit
Stupid nimby legislation. They should be celebrated as an affordable low carbon form of transportation, same as e-bikes. Its just an excuse to distract from piss poor regulation and enforcement, under resources like everything else.
SpudFire@reddit
It is celebrated... as long as you don't buy and use your own scooter but instead pay a private company approved by the local council to use their scooters
alastairclark82@reddit
Ah capitalism…
eventworker@reddit
Or in this instance, the complete opposite.
appletinicyclone@reddit
Big scoot
Prince_John@reddit
How is a state controlled monopoly an example of capitalism?
Oshova@reddit
And buy/use an ebike within the rules. Not one that is basically a motorbike, but less safe and uninsured, usually ridden by someone who can't see red lights and loves wheelies.
i_biltz_00@reddit
Xiaomi M365 scooter riders used to be targeted and had their license affected. Now you can rent one with the equivalent power and it’s abused more because it’s not their scooter. Either ban it all or don’t.
Oshova@reddit
The thing is, they do all have the same rules on them. It's just that a private user has no chance of getting a scooter insured. You still need a licence to sign up for the rentable ones.
WGD23@reddit
I dont know, my mid life crisis is screaming out for a Surron. I would be in a&e quicker than I can say casualty
marmaviscount@reddit
A rich person wanted a monopoly on them so their corrupt politician friend gave it to them, now they holiday together on the yacht brought with the proceeds
A tale as old as time.
Queen Elizabeth the Virgin Queen gave one of her lovers a monopoly on salt production.
bcscroller@reddit
a reminder that most car trips are less than 3km, average less than 2 people in the vehicle and involve less than a backpack full of stuff. If that can be accomplished with an electric motor half the size of a Sports Direct mug and no tailpipe emissions then it really bears thinking about.
daneview@reddit
I guess the problem is they're too fast to be safe on pavements, and too slow and wobbly to be safe on roads
Grimdotdotdot@reddit
They're faster and just as wobbly as a normal scooter, which is allowed on the roads...
Banes_Addiction@reddit
It's not even NIMBY legislation. It's literally an accident that they're illegal. The law was written before they existed, and was written in a way that didn't allow them. They just fell through the cracks.
Then Parliament has been proper fucking up undoing that.
So we have a super convenient technology that tonnes of responsible citizens want to use, and a law that just makes them illegal by accident, so the police just don't enforce it because why would they spend their time and resources on a thing no-one tried to outlaw in the first place?
WGD23@reddit
they enforce it if your a poor young man, or brown, or when it suits them. a bit like weed
daneview@reddit
They dont seem to, loads of dickhead youngsters razzing them about
WGD23@reddit
Again, it depends. Been a few cases of kids / teenagers crashing while being chased. One in Cardiff I can quote, and seen other headlines too..
marmaviscount@reddit
Because they're cheap, efficient and useful.
Why are jackets popular or sandwiches?
BrexitVoter@reddit
The police do enforce them. I see posts from local forces daily about confiscating them. But, it's difficult for them because of the press police get generally - getting sued and press for knocking off Mummy's little angel from a scooter doesn't help.
They're also not always able to. I'm a good boy, of course, but where I live (and this is the same for the locals where they live), there is not a chance a police car is catching them. They'd need a whole squad set up. And even if they get the address, mummy and daddy cover up for their little angel too
RegularMidLifeCrisis@reddit
Why does the uUK still live in the middle ages?
frankieepurr@reddit
Arnt e scooters like legal in the rest of europe or am I wrong
Indecisive-Gamer@reddit
They are legal most places. It's only here it isn't. Mostly because our politicians don't like wasting time on laws and changes that don't effect them or their croneys.
frankieepurr@reddit
Then they didn't need to restrict them
m1bnk@reddit
The second part of your question is the answer to the first part. Rules which are not enforced are routinely disregarded
19Ben80@reddit
Cheap to buy and charge with no insurance needed.
Grab-Wild@reddit
Because the situation is idiotic for no reason, it's legal to hire but not to have private ownership. The solution would be to allow private ownership/riding but also include some kind of licence/insurance/tax
saoirsedonciaran@reddit
Have you ever rode on one? They are a hell of a lot of fun and very efficient at getting you to your destination quickly and smoothly.
The problem is that most cities are not designed for them and not everyone rides them safely either.
SexyMuthaFunka@reddit (OP)
Oh hell yeah! The reason I posted this is because I want one, not because I have anything against them
saoirsedonciaran@reddit
The only reason I haven't got one myself is the legality of it hence why I just got an electric bicycle instead which is more safe anyway.
I have one mate who had one and had his confiscated by police, which is unusual and he felt targeted because of his political activism because generally the only people getting arrested are those with unlocked speed who are using them dangerously.
hurricane_97@reddit
There was a few cases in the press a couple years ago of people crashing their e scooters and dying while fleeing police. The police for some reason got the blame. They don’t bother chasing them anymore as a result.
kingbeerex@reddit
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65700552?app-referrer=deep-link
Presumably this is what you’re talking about
hurricane_97@reddit
Yes this and several cases occurred in quick succession which led to a backlash against the police and their pursuit policies. Now criminals use e bikes and scooters with impunity.
PurahsHero@reddit
They are prevalent because they are easy to get hold of.
The police don't prosecute because they have about a billion and one priorities, and a load of scallies acting like idiots on e-scooters isn't one of them.
SavlonWorshipper@reddit
The legal system is not set up to deal with this issue - young people using mechanically propelled vehicles, often dangerously, always without insurance.
For a normal adult who mostly follows the rules, the punishment for having no insurance is quite serious. 6 points and a 200 pound fine, with eye-watering premium increases for years.
For an adult who doesn't care about the rules, getting caught twice gets them disqualified, getting caught again after that will yield a suspended sentence, and a 4th time could well be prison.
For a 15 year old, none of this matters. They aren't paying any fines, they won't be paying for insurance any time soon, they won't be sent to prison until they have a dozen identical convictions.
So that's the juice. Now the squeeze- it is hard to safely catch them. They can zip along off road or down alleys, and they can't be rammed and are much harder to sting. If they crash and hurt themselves, it will be the police that get punished.
So catching the dangerous ones is very difficult and dangerous. And as outlined above, it has to be done again, again and again, and nauseum, until it has any real effect apart from parents buying a new scooter to get their little shit out of the house.
So the juice ain't worth the squeeze
RealLongwayround@reddit
They can be rammed. Tactical contact is frequently used these days.
SavlonWorshipper@reddit
Motorbikes, mopeds, scramblers, maybe. I have never heard of deliberate contact with an e-scooter though.
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
There’s a few clips out there of scooters being taken out
SavlonWorshipper@reddit
Can you link some? All I can find are mopeds and motorbikes.
TheMightyBattleCat@reddit
Yep. Scallies, roadmen, caravan dwellers are ignored by the police.
Meanwhile those that use them sensibly, like a pushbike in the road, at a reasonable speed, with a helmet and hi-vis, is the one they stop and confiscate.
0nce-Was-N0t@reddit
Some people just want an easy life at work.
wongl888@reddit
Yes the police are always too busy doing something or other and so nothing gets done.
sjw_7@reddit
I have one and its brilliant. Walking to the other side of town would take me three quarters of an hour but on the scooter it only takes fifteen minutes.
One of the problems is people who ride them like idiots and weave in and out of pedestrians on the pavement. Bikes have been doing this forever though and we dont seem to want to do anything about those. The other is the speed of some of the imported ones which is rediculous.
People would be happier with them if there was legislation to restrict them and what they can do. It also needs attitudes to change so people ride them sensibly. I avoid busy areas and use backroads to get to where I need to go. I dont want to bother people or get in the way of traffic and wish more people did the same.
TheLoneEcho@reddit
I'm not a fan but the bigger problem is the kids on these Surron electric bikes. Someone is gonna get killed by one of them (probably already have been)
SimplyFootballNet@reddit
I think it's wrong that they're available so readily for hire but there are no helmets to go with them.
newCoolvibe@reddit
So a hire one you pay gov for is ok but private is not....makes sense
ConstantNorth2283@reddit
Cos liability. You use a hire scheme, you are insured and you have to prove you have a driving license.
How many of the people with their own scooters do you think are insured and hold the required license? Certainly not all the kids I see out and about being reckless, endangering themselves and others.
KingForceHundred@reddit
I’m sure half of the youths I see riding (often two on board) our council ones won’t have a licence.
twonaq@reddit
Same with kids riding bikes tho isn’t it? They go just as fast and are just as likely to be involved in an accident.
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
Children on bicycles are covered under house insurance.
twonaq@reddit
I don’t have house insurance.
pasta-disaster@reddit
So then why would a kid on an e-scooter not be covered by the same house insurance?
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
Because they are a powered vehicle that travels over 8mph.
pasta-disaster@reddit
Thanks, I understand the difference but tell me why damage done by a kid on any vehicle would be different whether it was mechanical or electrically driven? Someone could trip over their shoelace while on foot and any damage incurred to someone else’s property would still be covered by house insurance so why the insistence it should be different for a powered vehicle travelling over 8mph?
newCoolvibe@reddit
My private one gets uo to 45mph. Its amazing
ConstantNorth2283@reddit
The speeds involved are quite different, I can't say I have ever been overtaken by a group of kids on bikes when I have been driving at 20mph or greater, but I have by kids on scooters.
twonaq@reddit
European regulations cap e-scooter speeds at 15mph. There are much faster available but for sake of discussion let’s assume that limit here too.
AnonymousTimewaster@reddit
I remember reaching 20mph on a flat road by my house on a mountain bike about 20 years ago. Pretty sure road bikes are almost designed to regularly reach that sort of speed too.
EyeAware3519@reddit
If you have never seen someone on a bicycle riding on a pavement at speeds that are highly inappropriate then you must have lived a very sheltered life.
Amazing-Heron-105@reddit
lol you don't need a license to rent a scooter surely
ConstantNorth2283@reddit
Sure do.
https://www.gov.uk/electric-scooter-rules
Amazing-Heron-105@reddit
That's a surprise to me. Provisional is pretty easy to get fortunately.
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
Insurance.
AnonymousTimewaster@reddit
Which is a ridiculous requirement for an effing scooter.
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
Why? They are on the road the same as any other vehicle.
AnonymousTimewaster@reddit
No, they're on the road the same as bicycles, which are not insured either.
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
Incorrect. Bicycles are insured through house insurance.
AnonymousTimewaster@reddit
Incorrect. Many people don't have house insurance. That also isn't the same type of insurance required.
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
Then the claim would be a personal claim. I’ve been there. All been in the media years ago and I’ve listened to radio articles on this very subject.
Wd91@reddit
Your home insurance covers 3rd party damage?
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
According to what I’ve heard from the police. A former employer I worked for put in a personal claim against a cyclist in London and got the damage paid for. This has been on the radio many times.
Wd91@reddit
I know home insurance can often cover the bike itself but i've never seen it cover 3rd party damage, which is really what matters with insurance. Can't really find any reference to it now, the home insurers don't seem to advertise it outwardly anyway.
Maleficent-Win-6520@reddit
I agree. I’m going by what I heard on a local radio station from the police
terryjuicelawson@reddit
Because they are part of official trial schemes that will come with things like insurance.
EyeAware3519@reddit
Because they are the answer to almost every urban transport problem in the UK. The fact the government is dragging their heels on regulation for them just shows they aren't serious about "net zero" or whatever buzz word they spout these days.
geeered@reddit
The concept of a light weight very efficient scooter has been around for over a century, including electric options.
The question is - was the previous safety regulations which decided they weren't safe incorrect and they should always been legal?
stpizz@reddit
Which previous regulations are you referring to?
geeered@reddit
The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 seems to be the most recent one.
For what it's worth, you can have a fully legal escooter that meets those regulations - I've had one in the past though I didn't use it on the road myself.
But that also means a number plate, CBT, helmet and following general road rules too, while the private escooter riders are often wanting to skip all of that.
stpizz@reddit
Hah wow that must be pretty unusual! There can't be many road legal ones made surely (obviously one could go through the whole process oneself, if you can have a road legal sofa then it must be possible to do a scooter).
I think a lot of people would be willing to do that tbh, if it was made easier though. I have a full A licence, id gladly take a legal one that I could just buy and pay for and didn't require lengthy discussions with VOSA or whatever
stpizz@reddit
But this does rather ignore the fact that they aren't really the same kind of road vehicle surely. It's fair to say that perhaps we should have another class of thing that sits between bicycle and moped, and try to find a way to make that work safely.
geeered@reddit
They come type approved, so it's relatively easy - you do have to register them, but it should be relatively simple. They have a removable seat.
The current class between bicycle and moped is 'ebike'. There's one model available that is approved for use with throttle only too.
Personally I do think it'd be good for the country/world to see escooters more legal and to have a higher power limit and speed limit available on ebikes. The (last, I think) government did talk about increasing the rated power to 500w. 20mph seems to make sense along with that, though not sure that was discussed.
I'd also personally like to see a new e-moped allowance that harks more back to original moped ideas - a bicycle with a motor that allowed up to 30mph and regulations between ebike and moped - maybe a requirement for certain spec tyres and brakes, weight under 40kg and a certain spec cycle helmet. The big problem I see is that I don't trust British people with this responsibility, where in other countries you seem to have a lot less people that will see 30mph is legal and get a 10kw hub drive be doing 60mph without a helmet on rim brakes.
EyeAware3519@reddit
The question should be, did lobbying from the oil and motor industry shape transport laws?
AvadaBalaclava@reddit
Ironically the rental ones are worse in number of ways (dumped in places that annoy non-users) and way heavier than a private one which seems to make them more dangerous if they were to hit a pedestrian.
LordAnchemis@reddit
Tbh escooters aren't really the problem
The issue is illegally modded ebikes, which are legally electric mopeds (that require a class A licence) - which often don't even have lights and are ridden by people who shouldn't even be walking
trigodo@reddit
Whole Europe use e-scooters without issues. Even more! You can rent them in UK in some cities.
But God forbid buy yourself one! Police will take it because it is illegal 🤦♂️ What a joke 🤦♂️
swordoftruth1963@reddit
They do confiscate them in our town and the police will often have a day where they sweep them up. The outrage on Facebook about them "picking on kids rather than arresting real criminals " is hilarious
Decard_Pain@reddit
They are actually quite good, they're mainly being used by fucking morons which is a shame but generally a decent mode of transportation for short distances
IDPTheory@reddit
Lightweight personal rechargeable transport is the future. Much of the world has already adopted and is benefiting from it. What you're seeing is inevitability Mr Anderson.
awwwwJeezypeepsman@reddit
I mean they get round cites a-lot quicker than cars these days. I can be sat in heavy traffic for ages on a busy day, the guys with E bikes and scooters just navigate through the traffic easily.
Also its cheaper, no insurance, fuel, road tax.
Aggravating-Sir-242@reddit
E scooters and E bikes should be legal. I can drive my 2.5 tonne SUV around the streets without it being limited to 15.5mph but I can't ride my pedal assist ebike faster than 15.5mph and get electric assist! I want to have an ebike that does 22mph. There should be legislation that allows this. Maybe I have to register it, maybe I have to pay insurance but please give us a legal option for ebikes and escooters of any speed.
Guiseppe_Martini@reddit
Drugs.
Police aren't allowed to pursue them because of jumped-up self righteous politicians like Diane Abbott being vociferous when they did.
NovelCompetitive4188@reddit
They should make them road registered.
Spiritual_Mall_3140@reddit
They bridge a requirement for transport that has prevented many people from moving up the socioeconomic ladder.
Boboshady@reddit
In fairness to the police, what exactly can they do about it? Even the slow, regulated ones are faster than most seasoned runners can hit, and most bobbies aren't athletes in their spare time anyway, so they're not going to be able to chase them down...and they're not allowed to just shoulder charge them onto the pavement.
The problem is they're for sale at all, and beyond that, unregulated.
it's the exact same problem with ebikes, especially the off-road ones that can hit 40-60mph and are favoured by those undertaking of more questionable activities.
So, to answer your question - enforcement is low and they're cheap and fun to many, and a decent way to commit crimes for others.
On a side note, the ones you can hire - especially in EU cities where they're much more prevalent and regulated - are great for getting around. I highly endorse them, when done properly.
Stage_Party@reddit
I keep seeing teenagers on them mostly. Like what kind of parents are buying their kids £1000 phones and £800 e scooters? I don't understand it, who can afford any of that?
andrew0256@reddit
Banning scooters is a boat that has sailed. We might as well accept they are not going anywhere therefore they and ebikes should be required to be registered and insured. That won't eliminate the problems caused by irresponsible riders but it will ease detection and destruction where needed.
EUskeptik@reddit
The police ignore just about everything. I don’t know what they actually do.
It’s not just e-scooters, it’s the illegal e-bikes that do 30+ mph with no pedalling.
-oo-
Naive_Reach2007@reddit
In some EU countries they have sensors in areas to limit the speed in built up places.
Easier to allow but have insurance meaning you could tax them, but sadly each of our governments are obsessed with private companies 🙄
Dissadentaggressor@reddit
The situation could be addressed by making it illegal to sell them in the first place. If you stopped Halfords, Amazon and other retailers from selling them, then the supply would certainly be reduced. No one really believes that someone buying one of these is going to ride it in a field or on their driveway. All this "illegal to use in public " nonsense is just arse covering by the the retailers.
pasta-disaster@reddit
This is the absurdity of the situation and why the government needs to make a decision one way or the other - you CAN buy them EVERYWHERE, you CAN’T ride them ANYWHERE. Insane. They’ve put themselves into a corner where they don’t have a convincing argument to ban them that couldn’t be used to ban every bike or skateboard too, but they’ve sat on their hands so long that thousands of e-scooters that are overpowered beyond any reasonable regulation are being used everywhere so now it’s simply far too late to be able to do anything about them.
Dissadentaggressor@reddit
This
Damn_sun@reddit
It is in the processed of being legalised.
Aromatic_Ad4132@reddit
They're an easy cheap and convenient form of transport. Any ban would be unjustified, So many people are killed and maimed by cars, the safety issue isn't a reason to ban them We should be making more room for cycling, scooters and mobility buggys
parsl@reddit
Zealousideal-Low3388@reddit
“Why aren’t our police arresting everyone at all times?”
“Why do our police waste time on petty nonsense instead of arresting the real criminals”
Pick one
MyDadsGlassesCase@reddit
Broken windows. You need to eliminate the former to deter the latter.
Zealousideal-Low3388@reddit
Disagree, broken windows theory is great, but in practice terrorising poor people doesn’t prevent serious crime
SexyMuthaFunka@reddit (OP)
Hey I don't WANT them to be arrested. I want an e-scooter myself. I'm just wondering if it's worth the risk.
bahumat42@reddit
Because people want the convenience.
This is an infrastructure and training issue not a prohibition one.
Micro-mobility is good for society as it reduces car dependence and general wear and tear on those surfaces.
They are cheaper to buy, run and have less of an environmental impact.
Sure walking cycling and traditional public transport are better still but this fulfils something that people clearly want.
JakeyG14@reddit
The police have got speeding tickets to process and Twitter users to arrest.
I_am_legend-ary@reddit
Because most people accept that they shouldn’t be illegal
They aren’t any more or less dangerous than Bikes / E-bikes
The police have much better things to be doing
Silencer-1995@reddit
To be fair we had some fly tipping done in my village yesterday.
The police already found the person responsible and have arranged for the mess to be cleared up by the offender under their supervision.
We are all flabbergasted as we had assumed the police would respond in 3 months.
Lopsided_Snower@reddit
I could tell you a few similar stories, positive to hear
Lopsided_Snower@reddit
I'd say they are! they're less dangerous than bikes, as they're lighter and the speed is generally slower. We should be in uproar over the illegality of these things
Feeling-Medium-7856@reddit
Scum parents. At the end of the day, they’re being given them. Same answer as e Bikes.
AnonymousTimewaster@reddit
My question is why aren't we actively making them more prevalent so that people feel more encouraged to get out of their cars?
VictoryAppropriate68@reddit
People mentioning insurance for the rented e-scooters check again. There’s been a story recently where a lady was hit by someone riding an ebike hired through one of these initiatives. There is no insurance and she’s fighting a loosing battle. While some might have, others don’t. They need to regulate this industry correctly instead of different rules, that’s the issue.
WestleyMc@reddit
You can get a decent one for under £200, are basically free to fun, can fit in a cupboard, are perfect for shortish trips and can replace an unreliable ~£3 bus or in my case £11 in parking.
The fact we are basically the last developed country on the planet to address their private use (even on a temporary basis) just sums our entire system up.
CaptainSpazclart@reddit
I think they're being made road legal soon
PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit
Announced in February by the transport sec. Let's see if it actually happens.
alastairclark82@reddit
I would hope by the summer really but after the assisted dying debacle who knows!
CaptainSpazclart@reddit
Dammit I knew I should have signed up to that debacle mailing list and now I'm out of the loop
BG3restart@reddit
Are they prevalent? I've seen a couple lying on the pavement, but I don't think I've seen one being ridden. I've seen more in Spain.
YourOwnDemise@reddit
Never see them in the city itself, but where I live (outskirts), I see one pretty much any time I’m out for more than half an hour. Just at the weekend got passed by one whilst walking around a pond, nowhere near a road. Couple weeks earlier nearly got hit by two teenagers on an overpass, only avoided it because they were screaming at me to get out of the way: They had absolutely no intention of slowing down.
I can’t wear my headphones whilst out for a walk any more, even through a nature trail, because of them. It sucks.
Ok-Middle8656@reddit
Stupid grey area that they are legal to use on private land, and there are also legal operators. So they can’t technically stop them being imported or manufactured.
PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit
In fairness this is no different to cars. You can have and use any unroadworthy and uninsured car you want as long as it's not on a road or public place. Or any other vehicle for that matter like segways or off roading bikes.
Kexxa420@reddit
Cheap, easy to get, fast and economical
evil666overlord@reddit
Because we only care about the laws that make any sense
InsaneInTheRAMdrain@reddit
Same reason weed is dispite being "illegal", because its not that big of a deal.
Cycling is fine, but an e scooter isnt? I think if anything goes on the road it should be insured, with safety requirements, hi vis, or lights or w.e.
But i really dont see that much of a difference between the 2....
Unless obviously if the scooter is blasting at 20/30+ mph. Which is a different problem, i think.
beejiu@reddit
It's a waste of time taking people's scooters off them when private companies and councils are trialling the same e-scooter schemes. Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's worth enforcing.
PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit
I mean we have been "trialling" then for 6 years now. Surely we have enough data to make a decision?
I also don't think the trials are representative of how privately owners scooters would be used. The trial ones weigh a ton because they have batteries expected to last all day. Also, people dump the rental scooters all over the shop, whereas privately owned e-scooters would be folded up and taken into the house or under the desk in the office.
The current position is ridiculous because there's basically no regulation on what is being sold, given they're all unlawful to use in public places. At least if they were regulated people might be incentivised to buy legal scooters rather than ones which do crazy high speeds, don't have reflectors, lights, etc.
zoppaTheDim@reddit
The laws were written by the techbros selling them.
tanoshimi@reddit
Yeah, it's very confusing: E-Bikes are legal, and E-Mopeds are legals, yet, E-Scooters (which, to my mind at least, sit somewhere between the two) are not...
terryjuicelawson@reddit
I do find it a bit of a mystery as they are expensive and there is a risk (however small in reality) of them being taken and summarily disposed of. They aren't comfortable long distance. They aren't easy to store. You can't lock them up outside a shop like a bike, I see people walking them inside. The trial ones for a laugh if you want to get around a city centre I get, but not at home in the suburbs
Spinxy88@reddit
Why are they banned should be the actual question. E-bikes (and E-scooters to remain on topic) are the most efficient means of transport. We should be adapting our local transport networks to suit them; not whatever the hell is actually going on (almost like the way things are, suiting profit over sense came about while the Tories were in power or something, isn't it)
fishyminge69420@reddit
I have one because I go to the gym, boxing and swimming and I can't be arsed to bike after all that too. They're convienient and why should I care if they're illegal if the police don't?
TheGulfofWhat@reddit
Had one imported from china before anyone knew they existed. No rules. No enforcement. Could take it everywhere. Was super fun at the beginning of covid. Glad i sold it before they became a thing here.
who-gives-a@reddit
Why do schools have inset days
who-gives-a@reddit
Because the government and the law are always 10 years behind. Most people have seen this escalating for years.
Obscure-Oracle@reddit
We should legalise them, they are a very good means of transport. In our town you can rent them with a provisional driving license with no training but can't ride your own. We should have a system to legalise them but in the UK everything happens at a snails pace many years behind.
stuaird1977@reddit
Scooters are the least of our problems, there's more and more people in cars just ignoring road signs, I've seen 3 drivers in my town in the last 2 weeks just go down one way streets the wrong way, other drivers driving around mini roundabouts the wrong way its madness
TheAireon@reddit
I mean you can just get them insured and made legal to ride, people just don't because it costs them more money.
Same idea with people without car insurance or MOT.
Tough-Oven4317@reddit
You can't according to the police website
Caddap@reddit
Everyone saying they need to have insurance, why don't we force this on cyclists who can cause just as much damage?
Morris_Alanisette@reddit
1) because they're convenient, cheap, useful and easy to ride.
2) because they have much better things to do with their time and e-scooters don't really cause many problems.
TAOMCM@reddit
They need to be legalised. I would love one to commute with, but currently cant because theyre illegal. So stupid.
Exact-Way-9940@reddit
You can get them for a few hundred quid that makes them sorta disposable if they are confiscated. I also think police don't have the fitness to chase someone on an escooter down footpaths and back alleys so they just don't bother. If they do chase you you can just ditch it, it's not really traceable if it's mass produced in random Chinese factory. I also think police have (or should at least) more priority for more serious crimes and that's maybe why they ignore them. I have had the police shout at me but never actually stop me on mine.
McFigroll@reddit
buying them isn't illegal but you answered your own question. Police don't do anything about them, so more people ride them however they like.
charlies_got_a_gat@reddit
I think we need to find a way to legislate and accept them.
Sure-Recognition-262@reddit
Your second question answers your first one.
Playful_Echidna_3465@reddit
Cheap and easy way of getting around.
Cheap enough that after a while, even if it gets confiscated it’s worth just getting another.
Why are the police ignoring them? Same reason they ignore other crimes.
Smudger105e@reddit
Wojld likely be charged with a number of motoring offences.
lucyuktv@reddit
The police have no budget and better things to do than stealing scooters from kids. In France they have bike/scooter lanes to enable sustainable travel options, it’s much better.
WelshBen@reddit
Tech made them economically viable.
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