Is the UK behind neighbours in terms of highways?

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This-Willow-4655@reddit

Nah Mate ee definitely got more than 5/6

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MagicTriton@reddit

I travel across Europe a lot, the Motorway system in uk is perfectly adequate for the country, the map clearly shows only the motorways and not the A roads that are sometimes even 3 lanes wide.

If you compare it to France, it’s highly possible that we have more motorways than them, France is immense compared to the UK

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chrisn1701@reddit

Agreed, and many main french motorways are 2 lanes for significant stretches, I can't think of many UK motorways like that.

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WitShortage@reddit

The difference is that in France drivers have a concept of "lane discipline"

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MagicTriton@reddit

You’re very wrong.

They do have better roads, but the etiquette is just as bad

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WitShortage@reddit

Ech, I speak as I find. I've driven \~10,000 kms in France. I would choose a two lane Autoroute over a 2 lane Motorway every single time.

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MagicTriton@reddit

Also remember that French motorways are far less busy than English ones.

I went to Valencia from Calais a couple of years ago, and for a good stretch of road, about 3 or more hrs my gf and I were surprised that we only saw about 5 other cars on the road

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WitShortage@reddit

You're right. I think that in a lot of cases autoroutes have been built as new roads alongside D/N routes, whereas in the UK we basically upgraded our arterial routes.

Now, one could be unkind and say this is because of classic British underinvestment, but I think it's at least as much about space. France has a lot more land area than the UK and so it's presumably much easier to build new roads there

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Arnoave@reddit

Vous n'avez jamais essayé de faire le tour de l'Arc de Triomphe à 17h le vendredi soir, et ça se voit.

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WitShortage@reddit

C'est vrai, mais j'ai emprunté la Route Périphérique à plusieurs reprises, et son chaos est bien préférable à celui de la M25.

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Nutty-Frangipane@reddit

That map is missing quite a lot of motorways.

Also generally countries that are the first to develop are the first to experience infrastructure that needs updating. We were the first major industrial nation so it makes sense that much of our infrastructure is old.

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GieTheBawTaeReilly@reddit

Does that track here tho? First motorway was built like 150 years after the industrial revolution

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EyeAware3519@reddit

Germany had Autobahns in the 1920s, the first UK Motorway appeared in 1959.

Roads have been a thing since Roman times, this comment is nonsense.

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escapingfromelba@reddit

Although Germany was way behind in using motor vehicles, I suppose prestige is quite a motivator.

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EyeAware3519@reddit

Originally they did because China used to be VWs most lucrative market, those days are long gone.

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Kind-County9767@reddit

That map seems to only show m roads, but there's no shortage of good dual lanes grade separated A roads going most places.

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Weakcontent101@reddit (OP)

!answer

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Heavy-Preparation606@reddit

Exactly, there's a tiny bit of m23 south of the m25 which turns into the a23 and goes all the way the Brighton. If you didnt know any better you wouldn't even know you've left a motorway for an A road.

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Tuarangi@reddit

Same M42 into A42 in the Midlands. Always struck me as farcical that learners could join and drive down the 70mph dual carriageway A road but couldn't continue onto the 70mph dual carriageway motorway which is the literal same road just a different designation after a specific spot

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ctesibius@reddit

And specifically M roads, not even including A(M) roads.

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CanIhazCooKIenOw@reddit

You mean all those ones with massive potholes?

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Kind-County9767@reddit

Massive potholes on on which major A roads? All the ones I use are in pretty good condition. The ones maintained by LA and highways agency.

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VolcanicBear@reddit

Yeah, the roads which aren't the responsibility of our local council are in decent condition around here tbh.

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Kind-County9767@reddit

Yeah. The smaller non grade separated A roads are hit or miss depending on area, but the bigger ones are all still fine for me.

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musicallymotivated93@reddit

Motorways aren't exactly free of those either. They're better, but they're far from perfect.

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ukbot-nicolabot@reddit

OP marked this as the best answer, given by /u/IrrelevantPiglet.

If you include the A-roads, you get a better overview: https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/img-assets/Articles/Blogs/overview-of-the-nm.x02a5d114.png?w=1920&f=webp

^(What is this?)

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Megalomania192@reddit

That picture is misleading because in the UK motorways must be 3 lanes with a hard shoulder. In lots of continental Europe it only needs to be two lanes wide.

The UK has a very well developed network of high quality A-Roads that are practically the same (minus hard shoulders).

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Weakcontent101@reddit (OP)

Someone needs to get google maps to include a road data at that scale stat.

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Substantial_Self_939@reddit

The M2, M3, M4, M8, M9, M11, M18, M20, M26, M32, M42, M45, M48, M49, M50, M53, M54, M56, M58, M61, M65, M66, M67, M69, M73, M74, M77, M80, and the M90 would all like to have a word. All have stretches with only two lanes, some of quite significant length - and for some it's the entire route. And that's not even including the three digit motorways or any of the Ax(M)s.

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whyy_i_eyes_ya@reddit

Plenty of 2 lane Motorways.

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PennyBunPudding@reddit

And they all suck

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whyy_i_eyes_ya@reddit

My two favourites are the M50 and M54, both two lane. Never had anything but simple, enjoyable drives down them!

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sockeyejo@reddit

All the two lane stretches of motorway, not forgetting the abominations that are smart motorways beg to differ 🤦

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PurahsHero@reddit

Depends how you measure it.

If its by full extent of "major" roads in terms of motorways, we are behind. But you do need to recognise that we are a small, highly-concentrated place, and almost every major city is served by at least one if not two motorways.

We also have an extensive strategic road network beneath that. So dual carriageways, major A-roads that essentially act as motorways but aren't. We have a lot of those (such as the A14) that provide excellent access across the country. Other countries don't really have that.

But our roads are more congested than those of others.

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Weakcontent101@reddit (OP)

Im thinking the problem is that google doesnt show the a road traffic data at that scale because of their classification. Presumably including the a roads would then include too many roads for other countries or some such issue.

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made-of-questions@reddit

A major missing piece is east to west mobility across the country.

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IrrelevantPiglet@reddit

If you include the A-roads, you get a better overview: https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/img-assets/Articles/Blogs/overview-of-the-nm.x02a5d114.png?w=1920&f=webp

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Weakcontent101@reddit (OP)

This shows it perfectly. I wonder why google doesnt display the traffic data from the a roads at that scale. Presumably, it's just motorways by default.

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SheffDus@reddit

In Germany at least most longer distance dual carriageways are classed as motorways (with hard shoulders and limited junctions). In the UK many trunk roads are dualled but not classed as motorway to allow more access and avoid building larger junctions. I think that explains why the UK seems leas dense.

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Weakcontent101@reddit (OP)

I wonder why google doesnt display the traffic data from these roads too?

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OkGrapefruit7174@reddit

I’m Dutch and yes I think it is. There are very few proper motorways, they are poor quality and have very few lanes often. While the UK needs to invest more into public transport, even roads have not had proper funding by the tories.

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rossburton@reddit

I've driven in the Netherlands and agree with this message. Can you send someone to tell the road builders in Fenland how to build roads on reclaimed land?

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OkGrapefruit7174@reddit

I wish! I’ve joked with my British partner that I should become a city/road architect, surely I can make it a little better here 😂

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WinkyNurdo@reddit

*Motorways.

And no, we are not.

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justanothergin@reddit

No, the last thing we need is more roads, if anything we need less car infrastructure and more public transport infrastructure.

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my-comp-tips@reddit

Yes we are. You pay for French and Italian motorways, but you get decent services along the way.

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pronoobmage@reddit

You pay for them as well, called "Road Tax" and it costs twice more than you pay in EU countries for motorway in a year...
Not to mention Germany has free motorway for cars and it's a lot better.

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Kind_Ad5566@reddit

UK VED on a big SUV is 20x less than in France.

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Fudge_is_1337@reddit

Are there not shitloads of motorways not on that map at that scale?

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Actual-Eye-267@reddit

It seems to show all of the UK motorways. I have no idea about the continent though.

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PennyBunPudding@reddit

It's missing all the a roads which are basically just motorways without the name

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bradpitt3@reddit

If you compare to France then UK roads are much more crowded and congested. France seems to have much higher investment in roads and congestion is less common.

Spain is somewhere between UK and France.

Italy and Switzerland have high investment on roads in the mountains. Very impressive.

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Internal-Leadership3@reddit

I occasionally drive hire cars for work in Germany and the Netherlands.

Despite the difficulties of being on the other side of the road, different signage etc, I would far rather drive in an unfamiliar EU city than a large British one.

Lots of their roads simply make more sense.

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Dependent-Grab6686@reddit

Motorway?

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Unable-Ad2927@reddit

eh, it's kind of the result of the population density spread - the southern core is dense enough that it's a pain to build them and the north (and cornwall) is sparse enough that there's not really much point. There's arguably a few missing links you could justify (eg, newcastle-edinburgh) but most of them don't even need full-blown motorways, just consistent dualling.

Also there's quite few trunk routes that are dual carriageway but not full-on motorway and so don't show up on a map of just motorways - edinburgh to aberdeen is almost all free-flowing non-motorway dual carriageway iirc, as is the A55 across the northern edge of wales out to Anglesey

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nomodsman@reddit

In every measurable aspect, the UK is behind “roads” except for being terrible.

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Impossible_Theme_148@reddit

The map doesn't show a lot of major roads, but also there is an implicit idea in your post that suggests - more highways = better

If you are in a city and you can get to other cities by major roads - you probably have enough highways.

If you are in smaller towns then going on smaller roads to major roads, then getting to all the cities by major rods - you probably have enough.

The current actual state of the infrastructure... needs work

But the amount of road infrastructure doesn't have any particular large holes in it.

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