FedEx Plans to Return Grounded MD-11s to Service in May
Posted by D_E_Solomon@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 46 comments
Posted by D_E_Solomon@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 46 comments
BigJellyfish1906@reddit
And how are they going to mitigate a wing engine FODing out a tail engine on takeoff? This plane should have never been approved to return to service. It has a fundamental design flaw that can't be mitigated. We can only hope that debris from a a wing engine stays out of the tail engine.
1039198468@reddit
How many instances of this scenario have happened? How many flight hours on the type? What other contributing factors led to this and any other accidents with this profile? Without this and I suspect other information your comment is pointless.
BigJellyfish1906@reddit
Why does that matter? There's no such thing in aviation safety as "we can't do anything about it, but it's really rare, so we're just gonna send it." You're operating off a false premise. Especially when "it's rare" rings really hollow when it literally happened, and it killed people.
quietflyr@reddit
That is exactly how aircraft certification works. Everything in aviation is risk management. There are tons of things that could go wrong on aircraft at any time. But they're all so improbable that they will rarely happen.
Source: 20+ years as an aerospace engineer, much of it in aircraft certification
BigJellyfish1906@reddit
Give me another example of a single failure event where aviation safety just goes "oh well. It's rare" without making any attempt to mitigate it.
Doggydog123579@reddit
Its not about it being a single failure event, its the probability. Total hydraulic failure happens more and we havent even tried to fix that.
BigJellyfish1906@reddit
Wrong. A single failure event is the entire point here. We DO mitigate for a total hydraulic failure:
* Multiple hyd circuits
* Switching valves
* RAT
* Gravity drop the landing gear
* PTU (airbus)
All of those things ensure no single event can lead to catastrophe.
And then we have the MD-11, where if a failure on the wing engine spits out debris... good luck. That is antithetical to everything aviation safety stands for.
Doggydog123579@reddit
I specified total hydraulic failure. We have had it happen famously 3 times, and a good chunk that are lesser known. The goal is a certain standard of safety, but we accept a certain amount of risk. Is the engine issue on the md-11 more likely to happen than a total hydraulic failure. If yes, then it needs more preventive. If no, the its not a problem, as its already safer than other systems.
Relative risk is the name of the game, not absolute
CessnaBandit@reddit
Ease up. Not everyone is wanting an argument. Can tell from your comments you’d just keep going no matter what someone says.
BigJellyfish1906@reddit
This is transparent ad hominem deflection. I didn't "start an argument." I made comment, and people took it upon themselves to respond. I challenged their responses. And they haven't held up.
CessnaBandit@reddit
Braindead
BigJellyfish1906@reddit
No it's not. And that's why you can't explain why. Just feign edgy wit.
CessnaBandit@reddit
Sure lil buddy you have it all figured out
aviation-ModTeam@reddit
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McCheesing@reddit
2 instances (if you count AA191, a DC-10) and aggregate the hours, it’s probably something 90 million commercial flight hours (source, quick google search, omitted KC-10 flying because the hours won’t be available).
I don’t feel like doing any further analysis, but 1 instance per 45 million flight hours between the two extremely similar airframes is petty good
Mike__O@reddit
The FAA has not approved any corrective action yet. FedEx and Boeing have developed a PROPOSED fix, and they have submitted it to the FAA, but so far nothing is approved. FedEx ANTICIPATES approval in time for May ops, but they have drastically under-estimated the significance of this problem the whole way along, and drastically over-estimated the quality of their own airplanes the whole way along.
May ops is a coin flip at best. Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't. Until we hear anything from the FAA, take everything coming out of FedEx as "best case" kind of optimism with an appropriate amount of salt to go along with it.
CollegeStation17155@reddit
As I understand it, the "proposed" fix was issued by Boeing 10 years ago and implemented by FedEx but not by UPS since FAA chose not to mandate it (oops). And the whole grounding was FAA posturing while FedEx examined their fleet and have reported to FAA that the fix worked.
Mike__O@reddit
It's not just the SB from 10 years ago
drewlap@reddit
I’m more curious if the UPS ones get ferried to the scrapyard, or if they just get dismantled in place/ become donated as fire training frames
Ok-Pomegranate8977@reddit
It’s not a coin flip lmao you have no idea
TheLastShardbearer@reddit
Approval is expected may 6th
Designer-Salary-7773@reddit
In todays world all you need are Jedi mind tricks and some paperwork, at least according to Boeing
SookiSwann@reddit
Jedi mind tricks like a couple million in bribes for a big beautiful executive order
Accomplished_Clue733@reddit
You do have to wonder how many new planes Fedex had to order to get Boeing to cooperate developing a fix for a plane they've been wanting to kill for over 20 years.
No-Brilliant9659@reddit
I had no idea UPS was Atlanta based (per the article). I thought they were Louisville based.
Also, no planes will fly until the FAA says so. FedEx can say all they want lol
MAVACAM@reddit
Lmao, do you think Fedex would give such a specific timeframe if the FAA had no intentions whatsoever of granting it?
Like Fedex and UPS aren't in constant communications with the FAA re: the MD-11s.
No-Brilliant9659@reddit
FedEx has been saying may since at least December. You think they’ve had this timeline since 1 month after the accident?
MAVACAM@reddit
Just to make sure we have the facts, FedEx first announced this at the very end of January so that's 3 months after the accident, not 1.
Also yes, that's how timelines and projects work. Timeline and project completion dates hold if your milestones are achieved and now that Boeing has developed and tested a fix for the MD-11 awaiting FAA approval, the May return date is on track.
No-Brilliant9659@reddit
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fedex-anticipates-md-11-aircraft-153207122.html
Yea, this article is from December 19th so I’m not sure where you’re getting your information from, but your “facts” are wrong.
December 19th is 1 month and 15 days after the crash. My bad, I was 15 days off.
Of course FedEx is privy to information that we aren’t, but I still don’t believe it will be flying by the end of may.
MAVACAM@reddit
My facts are from the first actual official statement from FedEx themselves explicitly targeting a 31 May return date, published at the end of January.
Yours on the other hand is an off-hand response by the CFO during an investor presentation to a question from one of their largest shareholders, broadly targeting a time-frame of months lmao
Keep in mind, this is the CFO who initially said in an even earlier investor presentation that the MD-11s wouldn't be grounded indefinitely and would be released for operations after successful inspections. Almost like a CFO and investor relation's role is to keep investors and the market happy and tell them what they want to hear.
The desperation to prove yourself right by ignoring all context is hilarious but hey, at least it fits your narrative right?
basilect@reddit
And think of it the opposite way: The md11 has 3 operators: FedEx, Western Global (another cargo airline), and (formerly) UPS. How would this get done without the FAA working closely with FedEx?
lamalamapusspuss@reddit
From the second paragraph of the article:
TheLastShardbearer@reddit
Sign off from FAA is expected may 6th
danwasoski@reddit
UPS Corporate headquartered is in ATL, their world port is in SDF.
gravyisjazzy@reddit
UPS Air Group is headquartered in Louisville, IIRC the ground company is Atlanta.
Denman20@reddit
Oh I’m sure there’s some crypto that can be bought to expedite the process!
floMe126@reddit
UPS Airlines is based in Louisville, but UPS is based in the Atlanta metropolitan area (Sandy Springs to be precise).
rhineauto@reddit
Well yeah, but it sounds like the FAA is going to sign off on it.
pulloutforsafety@reddit
UPS is based in Atlanta, UPS Airlines is based in Louisville.
DrBiochemistry@reddit
Likely has nothing to do with the earnings report expected in May, and that the new CEO wants to goose his first earnings report. Nope. Nothing.
Ok-Pomegranate8977@reddit
Wtf are you talking about?? Next FedEx earnings are in June and there isn’t a new CEO. Idiot
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit
And this is coming just days after that one guy said the MD-11's should never fly again...
Granted this is just a proposed fix and the FAA hasn't approved it, yet. But still, the timing is kinda...amusing.
Strega007@reddit
"That one guy" being a politician....whom we know are aviation experts.
Honest_Radio8983@reddit
I hope the pilots get combat pay.
post-explainer@reddit
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