Can someone from the Caucasus truly integrate in the Balkans (e.g. Romania) and not feel like a foreigner long-term?
Posted by TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 69 comments
I’m half-Georgian, half-North Ossetian and thinking about moving to Romania. I don't have any local friends or connections there yet, so I’d be starting from scratch.
I’m 100% planning to learn the language fluently, but I’m wondering about the social side. In the long run, is it actually possible to blend in and be seen as a local? Or is the gap too wide to ever stop being "the foreigner," even if I speak the language and adapt?
Be honest—how do you think someone with my background would actually fit in over time?
-XenoSine-@reddit
Romanian from the capital here. You'll fit in just fine, we don't even necessarily care how well you speak the language at first and most of us really don't care where anyone is from. People will most likely always be able to tell you're not from here because of subtle accent differences but nobody will ever care beyond the novelty factor of "hey so where are you from?" kinda small talk.
Radusili@reddit
Being seen as a foreigner doesn't mean you can't be integrate.
You can 100% be accepted, but realistically you probably won't stop being a foreigner unless you attain some native level fluency and look the part. And there's nothing wrong with that.
The thing is that we are not multicultural, so foreigners stick out much more. But again, that does not mean you can't fit it with locals just fine.
Infamous_Dish_4348@reddit
We're a phenotypically diverse bunch so I wouldn't be surprised if OP can blend in looks wise. I've also found that a lot of foreigners who persevere in learning Romanian tend to adopt a near-native accent.
Radusili@reddit
Yeah it depends a lot on the native language of each one. I don't know any Armenian so I can't make assumptions though haha
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Fair enough. I don’t exactly want or need to fully blend in, it would mean I lose myself. I will never become a local nor that I need to.
vasjpan002@reddit
Thrace tobacco is very Armenian, esp Uvezian
writebyhand@reddit
You'd objectively always be a foreigner, that doesn't mean people won't be nice to you or accept you. But considering even people on Reddit are split, and that this is a strongly left-leaning place, I'll let you make your own assumptions about what that means for the situation on the ground.
Kitsooos@reddit
If the countless Armenians in Greece are anything to go by, you will fit in very quickly.
mortismatis@reddit
You ask as if Romania is a small homogenous country. It can be very different from East to West, North to South and it's like two different countries from rural ro urban. So which one is it?
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Most definitely central north west
P-l-Staker@reddit
Can't speak about Romanians, but I can for Greece.
I've got a friend who married a Georgian girl. Said Georgian girl previously lived in Greece for years and speaks better Greek than I do! I wouldn't have been able to tell if she hadn't told me.
Will it be easy? Probably not. Is it possible to fit in like a glove eventually? Yes, very much so!
P.S I love your food! 🤤
InformationTop3437@reddit
You will blend in and make friends really fast, I'm sure. First, you have to find a job and rent, then everything else will fall in line perfectly. Us romanians are more friendly towards foreigners than our own people 😄)
Have you decided which city you will live in?
vasjpan002@reddit
I had Greek relatives in Romania 1920s-1990s. When a lot of Russians, esp Jews, fled the bolsheviks, they settled in Iran & Romania, and a lot of Greeks followed.
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
I’m torn between Brasov or Sibiu
iongion@reddit
Not bad taste already, entire country wants there too 😄 - I guess it does look like Georgia
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Fuck no it doesn't. Georgia could look great too in the right hands. But no, people here like to shit were they eat. Don't even get me started on this..its breaking my heart. But yeah. With remote work I think moving to Sib ro Bra will be a decent choice. I have no desire to move anywhere south east of the country, no offence.
TheArdeleanul@reddit
Maybe consider also Alba Iulia
InformationTop3437@reddit
Confirm!
I lived in Alba Iulia for half a year then in Ciugud (Hapria village) and I loved every second of it.
wadaphunk@reddit
Yeah it's Ciugud to be true.
InformationTop3437@reddit
Yeah, we all want to live there 😃 My personal favorite is Sibiu, but Brasov is also beautiful.
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Sure is :)
vasjpan002@reddit
A lot of -dze became -tzis
Dull_Cucumber_3908@reddit
There are many Armenians in Greece and in most times they need to tell you that they aren't Greek (or see their name).
NoHawk668@reddit
Well, Romanians are not very sociable towards random foreigners. Don't get me wrong, it is not that they are racist, or anything like that. They have many minorities and cultural groups. However, it is something imprinted in them from communist legacy. They don't trust people around them, unless they are vouched by someone close to them. So start of some local social life will be long, unless you can find some of your own folks. I think Bucharest does have some Georgian community. There is nice Georgian taverna, but I think that owner has moved in from Ukraine, after spending many years in Kiev.
One_more_drink_@reddit
What?? I would say that Romanians are very sociable towards foreigners, I had random people coming to chat with me just because they thought that I was from another country.
NoHawk668@reddit
This is not what he was asking, and this is not what I was telling him. Tell me, how many of them except you as one of them? Not as interesting foreigner with whom they have decent and polite conversation. But as someone who is their personal friend, who they call to go out, outside of work happenings? How many of them ask you to help them to move some furniture, or to offer help if you have to move some furniture? How many of them will ask about your opinion and advice in some matters from thier private life, or vice versa? This is the part that Romanians are closed in, and don't trust to people outside of thier circle. Hell, I'm working in the team where 1/3 is from Constanta, and they don't connect with people who live in Bucharest, but they stay within thier own group. Even when we have some team building, they try to stay separated. Even if we go for a drink later, or in the morning during the breakfast.
One_more_drink_@reddit
Do you expect to form deep bonds with every single person you know? That's not how life works.
Also we, Romanians, are not really friendly between us, I've met more xenophobic comments from other Romanians than from foreigners...
NoHawk668@reddit
Yeah, and how is this in conflict what I have said?
One_more_drink_@reddit
Maybe because not having deep friendships with every single person you know is normal in every single place in this earth, not something unique to this country. It's nothing new to any human being, it's like telling him that staring at the sun causes eye damage...
NoHawk668@reddit
How did you come from "any" to "every single".
One_more_drink_@reddit
Now I fully understand why those people don't try to connect with you.
NoHawk668@reddit
Because you were going from "any" to "every single"? Interesting. Small question, are you working on Romania TV, by any chance?
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Guys guys, its cool! I do not want some randos talking to me anyways! I like secular societies and private people!! Its perfect!!
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
I mean I am not very sociable with random anyone so it’s not an issue to me at all. I’m very introverted and want to be left the fuck alone most of the time sooo I just want to escape this loud and trashy place and enjoy peace and quiet somewhere like Brasov or Sibiu. That’s all
Mysterious_Pack3598@reddit
I don't know where he's getting at, as a rule Romanians are downright xenophilic and it's something that's been documented since there have been any travelogues to Romanian lands.
NoHawk668@reddit
I'm getting it from living in Bucharest for 10 years now, as a foreigner. My friends were my wife's friends first (she is Romanian). Everyone else are just acquaintances and collegues. And other foreigners share the same expiriance, It is easier to become friend with other foreigner, than with Romanian.
Mysterious_Pack3598@reddit
I'm not gonna go against your lived experience, but that sounds more like getting older and people barely having time for their old friends, let alone any new friends.
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
And?
Mysterious_Pack3598@reddit
And as a rules Romanians are quite xenophilic and love most foreigners, are curious about their culture, etc.
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Hehe, my kinda ppl, I knew I would fit right in
Axel0010110@reddit
Dude
Just way it we do not like people that are not Christian and mostly muslims are the main problem in romanian culture. Even with people from Nepal or Vietnam, there is just a loud minority that complain but the rest of us do not care. Even in my hometown we have people from Nepal and we do not care as they are integrated and behave like us and speak romanian
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
I’m not religious at all idgaf
CDTPPW@reddit
Bring in some Kakheti wine, and you'd blend in perfectly. Romanian can be socially bribed. 🫡
Consistent-Sun-354@reddit
Depends on the individual as always but the mentalities and cultures are very different I’d say. Greece is the only country with a good amount of Caucasian immigrants and Georgians/Russopontics are always treated as outsiders and have a difficult time integrating which isn’t the case for Albanian immigrants. But again it always depends on the individual.
BogdanovOwO@reddit
The language is the 50%. Extra bonus is to understand the regional words and accent (I live in Moldova region, RO).
Early-Show2886@reddit
It depends on which Caucasian country they're from and their religious affiliation. Muslim Circassians also settled in the Balkans in the 19th century. Most of them have assimilated with other Muslims there. So I think if an Azerbaijani, Abkhazian, or other Caucasian Muslim lives in the Balkans, they could assimilate and integrate more quickly with Balkan Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo, for example.
New-Weekend-8189@reddit
Circasians were a presence during the ottomans. They were kicked out because they were to violent. Laz people were also kicked out
BWC_Python@reddit
Romania has so many armenians, hungarians, turks, tatars, russians and so on...
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Yeah.. I have nothing in common with any of those soo that does not tell me much. What are the places where its mostly Romanians? :D
BWC_Python@reddit
Georgians and armenians are almost the same, visited both countries and can say this knowingly. Both orthodox, both christians, both modern and civilised
Apart-Temperature329@reddit
Armenians and Georgians are great people, but they're nothing similar really, unless you're talking about Hemshins. Now, there are Armenians within Georgia and there are the border regions where they'd be closer to a degree, but they're hardly of a similar cultural continuity unlike let's say Western Balkans or the Greater Macedonia region etc.
Religion also hardly means much, as native North Caucasians would be quite similar to others no matter their religion, for example, and you won't be able to differentiate a Muslim Adjaran Georgian from a Christian one.
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Thank you! Finally someone with a knowledge and not just pulling shit out of their ass just cause they seen some youtube videos or visited country for a week lol
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Nonsense.
iongion@reddit
Maybe in your place is nonsense, but in our Country it is not nonsense.
In western Europe even, when local ones are present in groups of Romanian/Bulgarian/Serbian they say ... you guys are all the the same.
Which makes us happy, not sad, as common things bring us together.
Something that Eastern Europe slowly starts to learn.
Of course we are different, we speak different languages, we live in different countries, history is not similar, up to a point.
Behavior, closeness to family, care for traditions, attitude towards life, they are indeed the same...
Why is it so offensive for you ?
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Who said it's offensive? It's just innacurate. It's if I said someone from Transilvania and Moldova are same people, or romanians and hungarians are same exact people. If anything why is it offencive to you? You claim to know more about my region than I do, I don't do that :) I did not ignorantly generalize your area, so don't get butt hurt, maybe do more research, instead of confronting me on Reddit lol
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
;(
Mysterious_Pack3598@reddit
Can you like pls do it and open a Georgian restaurant in Cluj? It's my eternal lament that we don't have one.
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Cool beans
Odd-Future1037@reddit
Speaking the language is key imo. We are accepting of people but to be one of us fully, you need to speak the language.
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
I would say the same. I think you can live just great without learning the language, but you will always remain an expat/foreigner/migrant in that case (happened to my ex, because it was easy for her to just speak English).
If you want to become local, you need the language.
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Obviously.
No_Aardvark_6599@reddit
Romania is ok, people are mostly friendly to foreigners if you behave nice .
Many speak english, so if you speak english, you are ok to go.
Just stay away from the "minorities", balkans know who exactly.
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Gipsies?
Young_Owl99@reddit
I visited your country and two Balkan countries.
I can say that a Georgian would easily integrate to Balkan countries. Even popular spirits taste similar. I found Chacha and Rakija very similar.
DragonflyOwn5617@reddit
Absolutely no question about it - it's possible. In the Balkans it's less like in Western Europe in my opinion, in the sense that it's easier to actually feel fully integrated
In our village a Syrian refugee fully learned the language, adapted, found a job and everything from 0. Nobody questions him, there was only a lot of help along the way
TheScarletPhoenix_@reddit (OP)
Nice
MinimumArt8781@reddit
We have an Armenian community here, tehye are even considered a national minority. If you speak English you can handle daily business, if you need a job you will however need to learn Romanian in time, you can still find jobs with just English. În general we don't care about who moves where.
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
I feel the questions on the poll don't make sense. Blending in is not the same as acceptance. Of course if you are white passing you'll blend in. That isn't even a question. You don't need to speak Romanian for that.
But if you're asking if anyone will ever see you as Romanian, then it depends. If you want a realistic answer, no, absolutely not going to happen. But I suppose a more generous answer would be that if you're moving in yoru 20s or so, then by the time you're 60+ if you haven't ever left people would probably say you're a Romanian who was born elsewhere. But that would require an insane amount of time, and even then, it would come with the asterisk.
At the same time, I don't think this is a really big issue. Romanians already see each other as pretty different depending on where they're from. I really think so long as you're nice and hot and don't stand out, it doesn't even matter if you speak the language, people will just integrate you into their friendship groups and so on.
Cefalopodul@reddit
Of course. Romania has a historical Armenian minority. I would say Georgians are closer to Romanians because Georgians share the Orthodox culture.
You will have to learn the language, that's not optional.