What do you think rich people think about the FACT that statistically they are safer on Spirit Airlines than their private jet?
Posted by SirCatsworthTheThird@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 37 comments
My understanding is these corporate jets are often unforgiving and not subject to the same level of regulation as the full on airlines. I've also heard that jets like the lear are very unforgiving , and it is easy to get behind the airplane.
anonymous4071@reddit
Do you have any data to support this FACT, or is it just your understanding and what you’ve heard?
SirCatsworthTheThird@reddit (OP)
It is so clear I figured everyone was on the same page.
Its 0.9 accidents per million flights for Part 121 va 5 to 7 accidents per million for private jet.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2811419
anonymous4071@reddit
Your data is outdated, and does not specify private jets, only 135 operations with less than 10 seats, which could be in multiple non jet aircraft.
I don’t agree we’re on the same page.
The data that would be actually worth comparing would be part 121 safety vs private jet operations with similar operating and training standards. I think you’d find that safety margins are actually very close between the two.
SirCatsworthTheThird@reddit (OP)
Fair enough , but what about the fact that I can name about seven private jet accidents , including that horrible , one in san diego last year and the greg biffle nascar driver , who died with his whole family. I don't think it's an unsafe industry , but I just find it fascinating that you're safer on Spirit. To your point, both Biffle and the San Diego incident and the Philly incident were not high End private jet charters.
Chapman1949@reddit
"San Diego incident" = Dave Shapiro, Cessna 550 Citation II (N666DS)
ApprehensiveFactor98@reddit
All data like this is outdated. It's almost impossible to get current data like this. Spirit has never had a fatal accident. A private jet has. Therefore, yes, spirit is definitely safer. Question is whether the difference is significant.
SirCatsworthTheThird@reddit (OP)
Fair enough
wes_wyhunnan@reddit
I mean, are you arguing that it’s not true? US commercial flights are easily an order of magnitude safer. Private and general aviation account for about 330-390 deaths per year, with a fatal accident every 100,000 flight hours. Do you think Part 121 flights operate anywhere near 400 deaths a year?
OntarioPaddler@reddit
Those statistics are heavily skewed by small single pilot GA, a dentist flying his cessna in poor conditions kind of thing. A leased G6 from someone like NetJets that a rich person is going to lease is far more comparable to airlines in safety.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
In the lat 5 years can you demonstrate an accident where an airline pilot was directly responsible for crashing an aircraft. I can find a lot of examples of GA turbines that killed many due to pilit error in the same window.
OntarioPaddler@reddit
Uh Air India would be the obvious recent one, can't get much more responsible than that.
But that really doesn't change the point one way or the other.
If you are talking about how average rich people in Western nations fly private, they are using companies like NetJets that have very comparable safety records to airlines.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
Thats a deliberate act to counter your first point. When we discuss safety of flying we don't usually include murder into the equation. Secondly, netjets has a lot of aircraft but if you find yourself at a busy GA ramp you may see 10 jets that aren't QS tails to every netjets aircraft.
SirCatsworthTheThird@reddit (OP)
Greg Biffle, that accident in Philly ( i don't think we'll ever know exactly what happened.Because they I don't think they recorded it), more.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
The guy in San Diego that hit the power lines in very LIFR last year. There's a lot
SirCatsworthTheThird@reddit (OP)
Yeah that was a terribly tragic accident. The c v r was devastating. He knew he was augering in. And all because of a last minute runway , switch for taxing and convenience. Makes me wonder if the company had a policy about not taxiing for too long?
anonymous4071@reddit
I know they don’t, but comparing part 121 to general aviation as a whole is wildly misleading. The more accurate comparison be to regulated private jet operations, like part 91K, part 125, and part 135 operators, and even the legitimate part 91 flight departments. Those legitimate operators are going to be equally as safe as any 121 operations.
SirCatsworthTheThird@reddit (OP)
It is a valid point that they shouldn't be looped together with the hobbiest general aviation guys and gals.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
Whats a legitimate part91?
veloace@reddit
Where is the data? How much safer is it? Does your data include private jets for transport, or are you including all of private aviation including GA?
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
Private aviation is GA. It doesnt matter if its a 172 or a BBJ.
anonymous4071@reddit
Come on. You can’t seriously loop in every weekend warrior with any charter operator or business flight departments.
SirCatsworthTheThird@reddit (OP)
This is a valid point. I do recognize that the private pilots in the jets are serious airmen , and women.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
The GA flight statistic do all the looping in. Its 1 big category, I didn't group them together.
veloace@reddit
Yeah it matter, OP was specifically asking about corporate aviation and rich people using it for private travel.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
Every year there are multiple private jet crashes with fatalities. There definitely is increased risk in GA flying because we don't have the same oversight. We go to airports that are more difficult, we can fly 16 or 17 hours in a single day. We are humans and we don't have nearly the same support system in place to catch our fuck ups.
SirCatsworthTheThird@reddit (OP)
Yeah , and I'll bet you're under more pressure to succumb to getthereitis. More pressure to fly as desired by the client.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
I would say the Bangor Maine challenger crash would be a very good exhibit of that.
anonymous4071@reddit
That’s entirely dependent on the operation and you know it.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
I do know it but the fact is , it happens and you know that as well.
F0rbiddenD0nut@reddit
They probably don't care. A Toyota Corolla is more reliable than a Rolls Royce.
While private jets may be marginally less safe than commercial airlines, they are still incredibly safe compared to road travel. And I'm sure the "risk" is well worth the luxury of private travel vs. being crammed into a tiny seat.
NyJosh@reddit
Don’t disagree with any of your points but it’s worth calling out that private jet customers are usually attracted to them because of the time savings. They often have businesses where time is literally money so saving hours not dealing with commercial airport and airline stuff on each trip is worth a ton of money for them.
Swimming_Way_7372@reddit
A lot of them don't give 2 fucks. I've seen the passengers up and walking around the cabin while we have been getting our shit rocked by turbulence. They think turbulence doesn't apply to them or something.
SirCatsworthTheThird@reddit (OP)
They are clearly immune.
budas_wagon@reddit
I'd rather die than suffer the indignity of flying United or American, let alone Spirit
frix86@reddit
I'm sure they have no clue, it's just a faster more comfortable means of travel for them
Happy-Table-9515@reddit
Oh boy…
airport-codes@reddit
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