Biggest issue with minivans is ground clearance. Even the “Woodland” Sienna has under 7 inches of clearance. Make one with 9-10 inches and AWD, and it’ll sell.
definitely correct. This concept has 8" which is the same as my CRV, but is longer so really it would need 9 or 10" like you are saying to go to the same places that my CRV can go (without scraping).
The only reason I don't own a minivan is the ground clearance. I need go on washed out roads for the good trails and camping spots, and am not willing to beat my car up to do so.
Yep, which is also why there’s a surprising amount of people in Priuses that can be found in off road campsites. They have the same AWD system of the Sienna, nearly the same ground clearance, but a much shorter wheelbase. So they can actually handle a lot of the roads the Sienna can’t. The only thing they lack is space. The Sienna is basically a big Prius. Just give the damn thing some ground clearance and they can cut out so many of their other useless trims and poor-selling models to rake in the money by converting those plants to Sienna factories lol.
I used to take my 5-speed Impreza out on trails! It was good fun, but avoiding deeper sand and larger ruts was always a struggle. Still a fun challenge though
What's stopping the small amount of people with the need for 9-10 inch lift from doing it themselves? You could probably lift a current Sienna pretty cheap compared to whatever the "luxury outdoorsy" trim would cost from the factory
The current Sienna sells basically as soon as they hit dealerships (in any configuration) so they don't really need to do anything to increase sales other than produce more of them
Honestly, people end up in suburban’s/expeditions/grand wagoneers just for this reason. Typically, big families go on cheaper per person vacations. Renting a cabin in the woods, a ski trip with friends, whatever. Awd/4x4 and ground clearance make those trips much easier.
In the early 000’s, my parents and their friends had everything from 1990 Plymouth Grand Voyagers to Envoy XUT’s, and when it came time for a trip those with 4x4 and ground clearance were always the ones who were asked to drive. 2 families, 4, heck we used to do a year winter trip with like 8 families. 6 suv’s/trucks would end up there- 2 suburbans, 1 avalanche, 1 expedition, 1 durango, and 1 minivan that basically got to the resort then stayed parked all week. One year the minivan owner bought snow tires, and we had to tow them out with a suburban on snow tires.
It’s silly, but people definitely give into peer pressure- conscious or not- when buying a vehicle. ‘Will my friends need to help me or can I make it to the yearly get away by myself’ is 100% a thing people think
I'm not arguing that people don't need lifted cars/trucks/minivans, it's that those people can lift it themselves if they want a minivan. From Toyota's perspective they don't care if they lose a Sienna buyer to a Grand Wagonner or whatever, 3 more Sienna buyers are waiting to buy the one that person would've bought before it even hits the lot
I'd go out on a limb, as a Sienna owner who recently went through the ~~buying~~ waiting experience, and outright say if Toyota made 100k more Sienna's they would still sell every single one. They sold ~100k Sienna's in 2025 and I think they could easily do 200k if they had actual availability on dealer lots. I'm sure they lose a significant number of buyers to different vehicles when people simply cannot wait months for a new car that may or may not come in with color/trim/options they want
I’d argue that the manufacturer capacity is probably with 10% of the demand. I’m an automotive engineer, cars being sold quick is great but we spend a lot to know market size. Producing just what is needed and no more is the goal.
I’d wager any little change like this is seen as a new market and therefore the unknown.
If they ran some different models and got an insight into how that affects their other sales or what market segments buyers are coming from, they would likely make a hit.
I bet you they are using the offroad trimmed suv’s to justify their being a market here
Found a quick quote from 2025, the sales are up enough where they probably hit their production cap if they tried to be within ~10%.
“For 2025, we increased Sienna production to meet ongoing demand for the model and through Q2 of this year sales are up 73.9% (52,762 sold through Q2 2025 vs 32,868 sold through Q2 2024),” a spokesperson emailed WardsAuto.
I personally had to wait ~6 months for one that I eventually found heading to a dealer ~2 hours away from me and snagged it within a day of it going on their site. The car hadn't even left the factory when I "bought it". They could have shifted my purchase forward 6 months if they had the trim/color we wanted on the lot and I know in other subs/forums a large number of people are currently waiting on a Sienna, paying a markup, or taking whatever trim/color they can actually get. With the recent oil prices I'd suspect a lot of SUV buyers look more seriously at a Sienna even if they don't like minivans. It feels like the covid market all over again just for Siennas
I mean this with all due respect,
The end customer is not who manufacturers sell to. We sell to dealers. You waited for a dealer. From our pov, car was ordered, car was delivered within the model year. We are happy with that.
Increased production still means roughly 200 cars per shift ( production floor runs 2 shifts m-f and 1 Saturday) that is more or less our capacity unless they want to build another line. General rule of thumb, we could hit 350 cars per day with 3 shifts going gangbusters on the current line, and we can easily make/convert another line if the demand is there. It’s not.
I didn't wait on a single dealer though, I was on the waitlist at multiple dealers and eventually found the one I bought at a dealer ~2 hours away. If the car was available within a ~2hr drive any time in that ~6 months I would have had it. I waited on manufacturing to produce enough of them to clear the waitlists enough for me to snag one
Same thing stopping a lot of people from modifying their cars. They’re scared.
You’ll be hard-pressed to find many people willing to do anything to their cars that could void the warranty, even when they’re already out of warranty.
Then they buy an SUV and Toyota continues to sell every single Sienna they produce before they even hit a dealer lot. The subset of people who have Sienna at the top of their list but won't pull the trigger because of an extra 2-3" of lift is so small Toyota doesn't care, and they'll likely end up buying a Sequoia anyway
It doesn't matter what the market is for a lifted minivan, because Toyota isn't going to bother with it since they can't even bother to satisfy the current Sienna demand
Why take a risk on a super lifted trim when they can increase production to make more stock Sienna's and sell them all before they hit the lot? Any extra capacity will go to what they know is already in demand
Toyota literally made the “Woodland” trim because there’s a market.
I don’t actually know what your argument is. That Toyota will sell them out regardless? No shit. Does that mean they shouldn’t bother improving it? Tf are you even saying lmao.
I'm saying Toyota would need to find the production capacity somewhere for making new trims to make sense over increasing current production. This is''t a magic world where some marketing guru goes "add a 3 inch lift to a sienna and call it 'TRD Pro'" and the minivans just pop out of some building. If they're already producing as many as they can because they currently sell like hot cakes making a new trim doesn't change sales it just splits current sales across 1 more trim
For a new trim to matter they have to actually produce enough original units along with the new trim to increase total sales, but if they can increase total sales by increasing production why bother with a new trim until their production has actually caught up to demand?
Like I said, they don’t need to make an entire new trim. Just give the standard Sienna 1-2 inches more ground clearance from the get-go. There’s like no reason for a minivan to be limited to sedan ground clearance. The load floor of a Sienna is low enough that an additional 1-2 inches would be a hindrance to its target audience. They can still do a “Woodland” trim with an inch or so above that, which they already do. But the standard would really benefit from more ground clearance.
Unfortunately, no one actually cares about the specs and what they mean. Light off-roading trims are just butch tires and grey body panels. Get 20% worse gas mileage to look like you can go off road.
Depends on who you are and where you live. Here in Utah a little extra clearance(and maybe a locker?) could really expand the list of places that you can comfortably get to.
my job has a hybrid Pacifica I really like so I theoretically own one and would theoretically buy this. but of course, not really cuz it's something I'd probably only be willing to spend $20,000 on which is a number that would probably need to be multiplied by 3-4 to actually buy one of these
Certainly not the people the OG caravan was sold to. We've never needed a cheap people mover more in the North American market and Stellantis is trying to resurrect Ford's Eddie Bauer edition for van life youtubers.
Who needs to afford a home when you can finance a van over 10 years?
For people who want an Outback but not another stupid SUV maybe? I have had multi generations of Outbacks but hate the new one. A family car with light off road potential is a plus. However, it would take a lot for me to buy a Stellantis vehicle.
This is exactly what I want and was considering converting a AWD Siena with a lift. Light adventuring more capable than a regular van but I don’t need a big body on frame vehicle. Bonus I can build out a small kitchen, add some solar and sleep inside with my wife.
We’ve done it in multiple SUV’s and even a Model 3. Once you’ve tried a minivan you’ll get it. It’s night and day how much easier it is not having to climb all over shit and having no headroom on the bed.
Oh I’m sure. I think I misread your comment a bit because I took it as you saying you can’t car camping in SUV’s, but going back I see you didn’t say that. My bad.
All good. I’ve just been dreaming of a 4x4 hybrid minivan since my gf and I started regularly going on cross country trips. It’s something I’m actually passionate about and would buy on day one, lmao.
Oh I get that. It’s also just cool as fuck. I’ve got my dream car now but I still salivate whenever I see a cool 4X4 van with AT/MT tires. A minivan might even be cooler
Maybe a CEO watched too many of those van life youtubers?
Honestly no idea who would actually pay for it full price from the dealership? because lets be honest all here would be "i will buy it.... 30% off msrp probably used"
People who are cross-shopping the Pacifica with the Toyota Sienna Woodland Edition, which comes with standard eAWD, a lift kit, and various all-weather goodies.
Don't you know, Dodge can't have cars like the Caravan or Journey, they're the performance division!
The performance division with an EV muscle car and a sporty compact crossover 🙃 the 2024-25 line-up was truly appaling.
Yes, I know the Durango still sells quite well, and the Hurricane is trying to salvage reputation...but it's amazing when Stellantis and even the former FCA is like "we don't like the sales figures of these cars" or "let's pivot"...and then doesn't have ANYTHING in the pipeline
Maybe they can *consider* making a good reasonably-priced car that people want to buy, like they did in the 90s and 2000s before investing all this money in whacky super-niche products?
instead of investing all this money in whacky super-niche products
All what money? The like $30k RnD budget Chrysler still gets annually? If they had real money for products they would have done the smart thing and given it to Jeep so they can print money with it.
The stuff they made in the 90s and 2000s were rust buckets and death traps with way worse quality than anything made today. Take your rose colored glasses off. I had to drive those cars when they were newer. Walking was more reliable.
Somewhat relevant, but I was watching Twister with some of my coworkers earlier, and one of the guys made a comment about the Dodge Ram 2500 that was shown prominently throughout the movie. Basically he was saying how that was a badass truck and so much better than the trucks that we have today.
That generation of Dodge Ram was unsafe, and IIRC had a lot of reliability issues, such as transmissions that failed very quickly and dashboards that would just…shatter because the plastic was so weak and brittle.
I wouldn’t buy a current generation Ram Truck, but it’s probably much better and safer than what they were making in the 90’s and 2000’s.
My dad had a 1999 Ram 3500 Dually for his towing business back when I was a kid and every time I see a 2G Ram I'm immediately thinking of spending the summers riding with him in the passenger seat
2G Rams, 3G 4Runners, 1G Neons, XV20 Camrys - all these cars from around 1995-2002 seem to have some sort of intrinsic "special sauce" that just takes us all back to a time we find comfortable
It's also survivorship bias. You'll see old rams driving around still so some people get fooled into thinking they're super reliable, and not that someone paid over current sticker for an engine/trans rebuild.
Out of those cars, all but the Neon can be regularly seen still driving. I think in the past 5 years I've seen one or two Neons, and one was someone's R/T garage queen.
Been rewatching Fringe. The first few seasons always featured Ford vehicles. Exclusively Ford and Lincoln. Season 4 comes around and everything is Nissan. They made a point to show them charging a Leaf and talking about how they had enough juice to go on a long ride.
I was wondered how much the show got paid to do that stuff.
Literally no one buying a 30 year old car cares about its crash performance. By that metric every car from the 2000s or earlier is garbage.
People like 90s diesels because they don't have all the emmissions equipment that modern ones do and were just simple work trucks. Also the manual ones are really what people want, not the automatics.
The reality is, though, is that the volume seller is often a $5 thing sold for $4.99. This is why base models have died, because they can’t do better than Toyota unless they’re cheaper than Toyota.
They're $5 cars sold for $4.99 + 9% APR loans. Base models are bought by people who can't afford anything better and who either don't question the interest rate or don't have the credit to argue with what they're given. THAT is where they make money on base models.
Yup, tell a dealership sales guy you are paying cash and they will look at you like you just insulted them. Tell the finance department you're paying cash and suddenly they all need to take a shit at the same time.
Toyota is very capacity strained automaker theres a wait liat for literally everything. (Except a tubdra rip) toyota is going to sell what they are going to sell and theres millions of buyers still left in the market.
The company has limited production and can only make 100,000 total vehicles. This can be in any combination of the two. The company also has guaranteed sales of whichever they choose.
If the company is that limited on production, maybe they should get out of the car business because almost all their competitors are able to regularly roll out full lineups of cars updated every 5-10 years
Yeah man I don’t think you’ll find many people disagreeing with the idea that Stellantis writ large and Chrysler specifically should go out of business.
Chevy makes Z71 traverses, and versions of the equinox and trax activ with off roadish tires and they seem to be selling good, I don't know the real numbers I just see a lot of them at work.
The problem is that Chrysler has a reputation that would make horse poop jealous.
Making more boring cars wouldn't make them compete in that segment against cars with better reliability and reputation without some massive price cuts (in a segment with low margins per car).
All the pointless, offroad variants are getting a little tired.
Every single manufacturer has something now right? Tremor, Wilderness, Rock Creek, Overtrail, X-Pro, Trailsport, XRT, Z71 on a bloody Traverse, AT4 freaking Terrain...
I saw this at the NY auto show and thought it was awesome lol. The whole Chrysler booth was pretty depressing with just a bunch of Pacifica on display, save for this one lol
People are clowning, but Chrysler is actually cooking with this one. They already make a great value minivan and expanding that into having an off-road focused version is a win.
The possibility of this is a good thing solely because it shows the Eurobrains that were crippling what was left of Chrysler are no longer calling the shots.
I don't think I've ever seen a Woodland Sienna in real life. And I hardly see any Carnivals in the "SUV-inspired" latest iteration.
Much as people online fawn over the Delica, I don't think people who are sensible (eg: actual minivan owners) look to their cars for affirmation in the way offroad-trim crossover drivers do.
Chrysler should not do this, it should be a Jeep minivan on the Pacifica platform. With a mean grill, the Manosphere Mall Crawlers would be blowing going into massive debt for it.
As someone seriously looking at getting a Sienna and lifting it for some mild off road car camping, I hope off road minivans become a thing. But hybrid is a must so I can sleep in it with AC on.
Like, I kinda gotta respect it. And the idea's cool. But eventually, as a business, Chysler's gotta actually put out.....y'know, product. Product that buyers want. An almost decade-old vehicle in a niche class can't carry forever
Yeah but what if one day they have to tow 15000 pounds, they'll save the cost of a rental! Or instead of getting 100 sheets of Sheetrock delivered on a flatbed with a mini crane they can have pleasure of loading them into a cart, to the cashier, then the truck. Oh shit, forgot the straps, gotta go back in to go buy some.
This and a pop top camper van would be no brainer special models. Why not a windowless commercial panel van too? They only have one freaking model vehicle, at least accessorize it a bit, make a flavor for everyone’s needs. At this point they might as well buy one of the wheelchair van manufactures and make a factory wheelchair van.
I mean that's cool, but it's not like Chrysler currently has many other options for something "interesting" in their lineup considering a minivan is all they have.
mechabeast@reddit
Dammit we made the Pontiac Aztec again
sunandst4rs@reddit
Light off-road capability on a family roadtrip is definitely appealing.
phxtravis@reddit
A slightly lifted Mazda 5 AWD would be cool.
donnysaysvacuum@reddit
Let's be honest. The current pacifica can do "light offroading". This would just be an appearance thing.
MisterDoctor___@reddit
Biggest issue with minivans is ground clearance. Even the “Woodland” Sienna has under 7 inches of clearance. Make one with 9-10 inches and AWD, and it’ll sell.
MechMeister@reddit
definitely correct. This concept has 8" which is the same as my CRV, but is longer so really it would need 9 or 10" like you are saying to go to the same places that my CRV can go (without scraping).
The only reason I don't own a minivan is the ground clearance. I need go on washed out roads for the good trails and camping spots, and am not willing to beat my car up to do so.
MisterDoctor___@reddit
Yep, which is also why there’s a surprising amount of people in Priuses that can be found in off road campsites. They have the same AWD system of the Sienna, nearly the same ground clearance, but a much shorter wheelbase. So they can actually handle a lot of the roads the Sienna can’t. The only thing they lack is space. The Sienna is basically a big Prius. Just give the damn thing some ground clearance and they can cut out so many of their other useless trims and poor-selling models to rake in the money by converting those plants to Sienna factories lol.
MidnightMath@reddit
I used to take my 5-speed Impreza out on trails! It was good fun, but avoiding deeper sand and larger ruts was always a struggle. Still a fun challenge though
MarkIsARedditAddict@reddit
What's stopping the small amount of people with the need for 9-10 inch lift from doing it themselves? You could probably lift a current Sienna pretty cheap compared to whatever the "luxury outdoorsy" trim would cost from the factory
The current Sienna sells basically as soon as they hit dealerships (in any configuration) so they don't really need to do anything to increase sales other than produce more of them
danny_ish@reddit
Honestly, people end up in suburban’s/expeditions/grand wagoneers just for this reason. Typically, big families go on cheaper per person vacations. Renting a cabin in the woods, a ski trip with friends, whatever. Awd/4x4 and ground clearance make those trips much easier.
In the early 000’s, my parents and their friends had everything from 1990 Plymouth Grand Voyagers to Envoy XUT’s, and when it came time for a trip those with 4x4 and ground clearance were always the ones who were asked to drive. 2 families, 4, heck we used to do a year winter trip with like 8 families. 6 suv’s/trucks would end up there- 2 suburbans, 1 avalanche, 1 expedition, 1 durango, and 1 minivan that basically got to the resort then stayed parked all week. One year the minivan owner bought snow tires, and we had to tow them out with a suburban on snow tires.
It’s silly, but people definitely give into peer pressure- conscious or not- when buying a vehicle. ‘Will my friends need to help me or can I make it to the yearly get away by myself’ is 100% a thing people think
MarkIsARedditAddict@reddit
I'm not arguing that people don't need lifted cars/trucks/minivans, it's that those people can lift it themselves if they want a minivan. From Toyota's perspective they don't care if they lose a Sienna buyer to a Grand Wagonner or whatever, 3 more Sienna buyers are waiting to buy the one that person would've bought before it even hits the lot
I'd go out on a limb, as a Sienna owner who recently went through the ~~buying~~ waiting experience, and outright say if Toyota made 100k more Sienna's they would still sell every single one. They sold ~100k Sienna's in 2025 and I think they could easily do 200k if they had actual availability on dealer lots. I'm sure they lose a significant number of buyers to different vehicles when people simply cannot wait months for a new car that may or may not come in with color/trim/options they want
danny_ish@reddit
I’d argue that the manufacturer capacity is probably with 10% of the demand. I’m an automotive engineer, cars being sold quick is great but we spend a lot to know market size. Producing just what is needed and no more is the goal.
I’d wager any little change like this is seen as a new market and therefore the unknown. If they ran some different models and got an insight into how that affects their other sales or what market segments buyers are coming from, they would likely make a hit. I bet you they are using the offroad trimmed suv’s to justify their being a market here
MarkIsARedditAddict@reddit
Found a quick quote from 2025, the sales are up enough where they probably hit their production cap if they tried to be within ~10%.
I personally had to wait ~6 months for one that I eventually found heading to a dealer ~2 hours away from me and snagged it within a day of it going on their site. The car hadn't even left the factory when I "bought it". They could have shifted my purchase forward 6 months if they had the trim/color we wanted on the lot and I know in other subs/forums a large number of people are currently waiting on a Sienna, paying a markup, or taking whatever trim/color they can actually get. With the recent oil prices I'd suspect a lot of SUV buyers look more seriously at a Sienna even if they don't like minivans. It feels like the covid market all over again just for Siennas
danny_ish@reddit
I mean this with all due respect, The end customer is not who manufacturers sell to. We sell to dealers. You waited for a dealer. From our pov, car was ordered, car was delivered within the model year. We are happy with that.
Increased production still means roughly 200 cars per shift ( production floor runs 2 shifts m-f and 1 Saturday) that is more or less our capacity unless they want to build another line. General rule of thumb, we could hit 350 cars per day with 3 shifts going gangbusters on the current line, and we can easily make/convert another line if the demand is there. It’s not.
MarkIsARedditAddict@reddit
I didn't wait on a single dealer though, I was on the waitlist at multiple dealers and eventually found the one I bought at a dealer ~2 hours away. If the car was available within a ~2hr drive any time in that ~6 months I would have had it. I waited on manufacturing to produce enough of them to clear the waitlists enough for me to snag one
MisterDoctor___@reddit
Same thing stopping a lot of people from modifying their cars. They’re scared.
You’ll be hard-pressed to find many people willing to do anything to their cars that could void the warranty, even when they’re already out of warranty.
MarkIsARedditAddict@reddit
Then they buy an SUV and Toyota continues to sell every single Sienna they produce before they even hit a dealer lot. The subset of people who have Sienna at the top of their list but won't pull the trigger because of an extra 2-3" of lift is so small Toyota doesn't care, and they'll likely end up buying a Sequoia anyway
MisterDoctor___@reddit
Yes, and that’s the issue. Because none of their SUV’s have anywhere near the space and convenience of a minivan. I think you’ve missed the point.
MarkIsARedditAddict@reddit
It doesn't matter what the market is for a lifted minivan, because Toyota isn't going to bother with it since they can't even bother to satisfy the current Sienna demand
Why take a risk on a super lifted trim when they can increase production to make more stock Sienna's and sell them all before they hit the lot? Any extra capacity will go to what they know is already in demand
MisterDoctor___@reddit
Toyota literally made the “Woodland” trim because there’s a market.
I don’t actually know what your argument is. That Toyota will sell them out regardless? No shit. Does that mean they shouldn’t bother improving it? Tf are you even saying lmao.
MarkIsARedditAddict@reddit
I'm saying Toyota would need to find the production capacity somewhere for making new trims to make sense over increasing current production. This is''t a magic world where some marketing guru goes "add a 3 inch lift to a sienna and call it 'TRD Pro'" and the minivans just pop out of some building. If they're already producing as many as they can because they currently sell like hot cakes making a new trim doesn't change sales it just splits current sales across 1 more trim
For a new trim to matter they have to actually produce enough original units along with the new trim to increase total sales, but if they can increase total sales by increasing production why bother with a new trim until their production has actually caught up to demand?
MisterDoctor___@reddit
Like I said, they don’t need to make an entire new trim. Just give the standard Sienna 1-2 inches more ground clearance from the get-go. There’s like no reason for a minivan to be limited to sedan ground clearance. The load floor of a Sienna is low enough that an additional 1-2 inches would be a hindrance to its target audience. They can still do a “Woodland” trim with an inch or so above that, which they already do. But the standard would really benefit from more ground clearance.
Krankjanker@reddit
A non-Warlock/Rebel/TRX Ram 1500 only has 8.1" of ground clearance, and that's with a solid rear axle.
There is a reason no vans have that much ground clearance, the mechanical design changes would make it prohibitively expensive.
WorthTurbulent@reddit
I own an AWD pacifica. Can confirm that it cannot handle moderately rough unpaved roads due to ground clearance.
donnysaysvacuum@reddit
Unfortunately, no one actually cares about the specs and what they mean. Light off-roading trims are just butch tires and grey body panels. Get 20% worse gas mileage to look like you can go off road.
NorCalAthlete@reddit
Have you seen Kia’s new minivan? NGL it looks pretty slick.
jdd32@reddit
Depends on who you are and where you live. Here in Utah a little extra clearance(and maybe a locker?) could really expand the list of places that you can comfortably get to.
Geruvah@reddit
Is that not the woodland edition of the Toyota Sienna? They even raised it for better ground clearance
roman_maverik@reddit
...just as long as you're not German and headed to Death Valley
HeavyDutyForks@reddit
Personally, I think its badass
But, who are they building this car for?
pacsandsacs@reddit
I love my Pacifica AWD. 130k miles and I'm ready for a new one but was hoping they would update it first.
ESnakeRacing4248@reddit
Me. I would buy this.
HeavyDutyForks@reddit
Like, if they build it you're actually going out to buy it? Or you would theoretically buy it?
gearabuser@reddit
my job has a hybrid Pacifica I really like so I theoretically own one and would theoretically buy this. but of course, not really cuz it's something I'd probably only be willing to spend $20,000 on which is a number that would probably need to be multiplied by 3-4 to actually buy one of these
TNTyoshi@reddit
It’s not like people can currently get a Toyota Sienna so why not?
Sienna > Pacifica > Odyssey > Carnival
The Pacifica is also probably already the best minivan for actual camping/vanlife interests. The other ones are more kid/amenity focused.
ESnakeRacing4248@reddit
Purely theoretical until they build it and I have the money
hampshires@reddit
doug demuro
Trendiggity@reddit
Certainly not the people the OG caravan was sold to. We've never needed a cheap people mover more in the North American market and Stellantis is trying to resurrect Ford's Eddie Bauer edition for van life youtubers.
Who needs to afford a home when you can finance a van over 10 years?
MaraudingWalrus@reddit
Per the conversation on last week's podcast, they're building if for /u/DougDeMuro
TNTyoshi@reddit
lol Doug won’t buy a new Stellantis product.
1975hh3@reddit
For people who want an Outback but not another stupid SUV maybe? I have had multi generations of Outbacks but hate the new one. A family car with light off road potential is a plus. However, it would take a lot for me to buy a Stellantis vehicle.
Hustletron@reddit
If the Buzz had more of an off-road “Syncro” twist I’d buy the hell out of one.
RhinoKeepr@reddit
This is exactly what I want and was considering converting a AWD Siena with a lift. Light adventuring more capable than a regular van but I don’t need a big body on frame vehicle. Bonus I can build out a small kitchen, add some solar and sleep inside with my wife.
Wishart2016@reddit
The demographics that import Mitsubishi Delicas.
MisterDoctor___@reddit
The few of us who have no kids but want the space of a minivan to car camp in.
Also with this market, I’m sure it’ll become a popular actual home for a lot of people.
Pactae_1129@reddit
Honestly I’ve had no trouble car camping in smaller SUV’s. Depends on which ones obviously but I’m perfectly fine in my girlfriends CRV or my Xterra.
MisterDoctor___@reddit
We’ve done it in multiple SUV’s and even a Model 3. Once you’ve tried a minivan you’ll get it. It’s night and day how much easier it is not having to climb all over shit and having no headroom on the bed.
Pactae_1129@reddit
Oh I’m sure. I think I misread your comment a bit because I took it as you saying you can’t car camping in SUV’s, but going back I see you didn’t say that. My bad.
MisterDoctor___@reddit
All good. I’ve just been dreaming of a 4x4 hybrid minivan since my gf and I started regularly going on cross country trips. It’s something I’m actually passionate about and would buy on day one, lmao.
Pactae_1129@reddit
Oh I get that. It’s also just cool as fuck. I’ve got my dream car now but I still salivate whenever I see a cool 4X4 van with AT/MT tires. A minivan might even be cooler
Mytre-@reddit
Maybe a CEO watched too many of those van life youtubers?
Honestly no idea who would actually pay for it full price from the dealership? because lets be honest all here would be "i will buy it.... 30% off msrp probably used"
henchman171@reddit
There is a fair number of Sienna owners that lift kit their vans. The Sienna AWD is a decent AWD but it sits too low to ground like a Camry
EliRocks@reddit
tallon4@reddit
People who are cross-shopping the Pacifica with the Toyota Sienna Woodland Edition, which comes with standard eAWD, a lift kit, and various all-weather goodies.
That or the vanlife crowd?
Yangervis@reddit
That's funny. My rental Chrysler minivans have no problem offroading.
pacsandsacs@reddit
What's the difference between an ATV and a rental car?
A rental car can go anywhere.
PrpleMnkyDshwsher@reddit
It's funny how capable things are when you get the "I don't give a fuck" option.
Realtrain@reddit
Relevant Top Gear clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucQKNkvzQ3g
Training-Expert5598@reddit
The fastest and best offroading car you've ever driven is the one you rented.
epic_feel_time@reddit
My rental Elantra also had an off-road package.
wasapasserby@reddit
My Hertz Voyager is the fastest car…in the world
i-am_god@reddit
They really need to offer the rental trim to the public. So much faster and capable offroad
Drenlin@reddit
This needs to be a Dodge IMO
KSoMA@reddit
Chrysler has 2 off-road makes (RAM and Jeep) and people are arguing over whether this should be a Chrysler or Dodge
Drenlin@reddit
I mean yeah? This wouldn't make sense as either of those.
Carvair-98@reddit
Don't you know, Dodge can't have cars like the Caravan or Journey, they're the performance division!
The performance division with an EV muscle car and a sporty compact crossover 🙃 the 2024-25 line-up was truly appaling.
Yes, I know the Durango still sells quite well, and the Hurricane is trying to salvage reputation...but it's amazing when Stellantis and even the former FCA is like "we don't like the sales figures of these cars" or "let's pivot"...and then doesn't have ANYTHING in the pipeline
MagnetizedMetal@reddit
Consider reliability first.
theColeHardTruth@reddit
Maybe they can *consider* making a good reasonably-priced car that people want to buy, like they did in the 90s and 2000s before investing all this money in whacky super-niche products?
Just a thought.
KSoMA@reddit
All what money? The like $30k RnD budget Chrysler still gets annually? If they had real money for products they would have done the smart thing and given it to Jeep so they can print money with it.
Training-Expert5598@reddit
The stuff they made in the 90s and 2000s were rust buckets and death traps with way worse quality than anything made today. Take your rose colored glasses off. I had to drive those cars when they were newer. Walking was more reliable.
Mercurydriver@reddit
Somewhat relevant, but I was watching Twister with some of my coworkers earlier, and one of the guys made a comment about the Dodge Ram 2500 that was shown prominently throughout the movie. Basically he was saying how that was a badass truck and so much better than the trucks that we have today.
IIHS crash testing shows that this is not true.
That generation of Dodge Ram was unsafe, and IIRC had a lot of reliability issues, such as transmissions that failed very quickly and dashboards that would just…shatter because the plastic was so weak and brittle.
I wouldn’t buy a current generation Ram Truck, but it’s probably much better and safer than what they were making in the 90’s and 2000’s.
Shallow_wanderer@reddit
I think it's 100% about the rose colored glasses
My dad had a 1999 Ram 3500 Dually for his towing business back when I was a kid and every time I see a 2G Ram I'm immediately thinking of spending the summers riding with him in the passenger seat
2G Rams, 3G 4Runners, 1G Neons, XV20 Camrys - all these cars from around 1995-2002 seem to have some sort of intrinsic "special sauce" that just takes us all back to a time we find comfortable
themanseanm@reddit
It's also survivorship bias. You'll see old rams driving around still so some people get fooled into thinking they're super reliable, and not that someone paid over current sticker for an engine/trans rebuild.
popsicle_of_meat@reddit
Out of those cars, all but the Neon can be regularly seen still driving. I think in the past 5 years I've seen one or two Neons, and one was someone's R/T garage queen.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
Been rewatching Fringe. The first few seasons always featured Ford vehicles. Exclusively Ford and Lincoln. Season 4 comes around and everything is Nissan. They made a point to show them charging a Leaf and talking about how they had enough juice to go on a long ride.
I was wondered how much the show got paid to do that stuff.
Milk-Man75@reddit
Literally no one buying a 30 year old car cares about its crash performance. By that metric every car from the 2000s or earlier is garbage.
People like 90s diesels because they don't have all the emmissions equipment that modern ones do and were just simple work trucks. Also the manual ones are really what people want, not the automatics.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
What do you think makes a company more money: selling for $6 a thing that costs $5 to make, or selling for $10 a thing that costs $6 to make?
trail-g62Bim@reddit
Here comes the K shaped economy.
piddydb@reddit
If you’re selling 100,000 of the first thing vs. selling 1,000 of the second, then the first thing
Used-Psychology-1133@reddit
Todays market youre selling 0 of the first thing and 1000 of the second thing. With a dealer mark up
colonial_dan@reddit
The reality is, though, is that the volume seller is often a $5 thing sold for $4.99. This is why base models have died, because they can’t do better than Toyota unless they’re cheaper than Toyota.
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
They're $5 cars sold for $4.99 + 9% APR loans. Base models are bought by people who can't afford anything better and who either don't question the interest rate or don't have the credit to argue with what they're given. THAT is where they make money on base models.
_Thorshammer_@reddit
Nailed it.
GM is a bank that happens to have collateral for your loan handy when you need it.
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
Yup, tell a dealership sales guy you are paying cash and they will look at you like you just insulted them. Tell the finance department you're paying cash and suddenly they all need to take a shit at the same time.
Bassracerx@reddit
Toyota is very capacity strained automaker theres a wait liat for literally everything. (Except a tubdra rip) toyota is going to sell what they are going to sell and theres millions of buyers still left in the market.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
The company has limited production and can only make 100,000 total vehicles. This can be in any combination of the two. The company also has guaranteed sales of whichever they choose.
piddydb@reddit
If the company is that limited on production, maybe they should get out of the car business because almost all their competitors are able to regularly roll out full lineups of cars updated every 5-10 years
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
Yeah man I don’t think you’ll find many people disagreeing with the idea that Stellantis writ large and Chrysler specifically should go out of business.
_mogulman31@reddit
The niche products make a lot of money.
cat_prophecy@reddit
Only if you can charge accordingly. I can't really see people lining up to buy an "off road" minivan. Much less one from Stellantis.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Mitsubishi is going to give you new off road Delica. If it works, Chrysler could try.
Bob_Loblaw_Law_Bomb@reddit
DSM round two
oshaCaller@reddit
Chevy makes Z71 traverses, and versions of the equinox and trax activ with off roadish tires and they seem to be selling good, I don't know the real numbers I just see a lot of them at work.
schultzM@reddit
Off road van life posers probably
MisterDoctor___@reddit
I’ve seen more minivans in rando trails across the west than any other vehicle. Also once a UPS truck in the middle of nowhere in Moab lol.
Possibility-of-wet@reddit
Nah, the non-posers, real van life is often in a mini-van, not a 100k Mercedes sprinter
magnament@reddit
Looks at flair…You just wouldn’t understand
SgtHondo@reddit
We are glazing 90s Chryslers now? Guys be serious. Those cars were ugly unreliable and boring as hell. I would absolutely buy this
DocThundahh@reddit
Why do you care? Clamoring for a Chrysler car that doesn’t exist yet?
NorCalAthlete@reddit
They just partnered with Microslop.
Fat chance.
smilysmilysmooch@reddit
To be fair, this is Chrysler. When the bean counters tell you that they only want to sell minivans, R&D has to justify their budget somehow.
RawhlTahhyde@reddit
Do people really believe this?
Carl-99999@reddit
Lee Iacocca is dead, they have no direction
kstetter@reddit (OP)
I think all of Stellantis' money for North America goes to developing new limited edition Wranglers
clauderbaugh@reddit
They know not to duck with a good thing.
theColeHardTruth@reddit
The new charger would like a word
Pyrochazm@reddit
aaaayyyy
improbablydrunknlw@reddit
Those sticker printers are expensive.
elkab0ng@reddit
Trail-Rated^TM sticker printers!
PastPalpitationCry@reddit
The problem is that Chrysler has a reputation that would make horse poop jealous.
Making more boring cars wouldn't make them compete in that segment against cars with better reliability and reputation without some massive price cuts (in a segment with low margins per car).
Alive_Internet@reddit
The Trax has been a smash hit for GM. Don’t see why Stellantis wouldn’t at least consider a competitor.
dootytootybooty@reddit
Wouldn’t the Compass be the direct competitor in that price range?
_Thorshammer_@reddit
Yeah, but this ain't it.
Titan_Hoon@reddit
I would also settle for a hellcat Pacifica.
Pactae_1129@reddit
They’d likely make something that’s shit so let’s just let them cook with this one
porcomaster@reddit
how about an EV minivan the marketing is lacking right now.
MysticMarbles@reddit
All the pointless, offroad variants are getting a little tired.
Every single manufacturer has something now right? Tremor, Wilderness, Rock Creek, Overtrail, X-Pro, Trailsport, XRT, Z71 on a bloody Traverse, AT4 freaking Terrain...
aPerson39001C9@reddit
It’s a trend. They all sell 3 row crossovers too.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
They're easy margin for the manufacturers.
04221970@reddit
what is the difference between an off-roading minivan and an SUV?
aPerson39001C9@reddit
Generally a truck chassis suv would have 4Lo and more ground clearance than a crossover or minivan.
MisterDoctor___@reddit
SUV’s have like no actual space. Think of the biggest SUV you can think of and it’ll still have far less interior space than a typical minivan.
aPerson39001C9@reddit
Toyota has a sienna woodlands, so apparently the rise of offroad products is still spreading to minivans.
Akona333@reddit
They should make a 392 or hellcat thing like those guys on youtube did with a pacifica
FeemBleem@reddit
I don’t think they can make a Delica. Maybe.
long_fish3000@reddit
when you only make one vehicle, you have to make concepts to keep yourself busy.
N0_ThisIsPATRICK@reddit
Wow Everything is Minivan!
Limesmack91@reddit
At what point does it turn into a 3 row SUV?
OtterCreek_Andrew@reddit
For the love of god please put a hellcat motor in one. That’s all I want
JasonVoorheesthe13th@reddit
The Pacifica is already a perfectly capable off-roader provided it’s a rental
All jokes aside I hate how much I liked the Pacifica rental on our last family vacation, but now I find myself day dreaming of this exact vehicle
nissanfan64@reddit
…..as someone who loves minivans I’ve always avoided the Pacifica for its inherent quality food rom rivals.
If they make an off-road one I may be swayed a bit. That’s insanely awesome. There’s a lifted sienna that rolls around my town and it’s cool as hell.
DocThundahh@reddit
I hate quality food rom rivals
PROfessorShred@reddit
I see the thought, going after that Mercedes sprinter van adventure rig van life demographic.
Except I think they missed the mark.
Longjumping_Hyena_52@reddit
They are going to slap a jeep badge on it, calling it now
amandatoryy@reddit
I saw this at the NY auto show and thought it was awesome lol. The whole Chrysler booth was pretty depressing with just a bunch of Pacifica on display, save for this one lol
NorCalAthlete@reddit
That’s not bad at all.
Kia’s got some “SUV inspired styling” on their new Carnival and a pretty decent interior with the lay flat middle row / stow flat rear.
https://www.kia.com/us/en/carnival-mpv-hybrid
Give the Pacifica a bit more of an SUV nose, 1-2” more ground clearance / lift, maybe electronic lockers and AWD/4WD…
5-0_blue@reddit
Give it some Vannagon/ Westfalia trims and a pop top
NorCalAthlete@reddit
Now you’re talking. Rear/mid seats that can convert to a bed maybe?
TNTyoshi@reddit
People are clowning, but Chrysler is actually cooking with this one. They already make a great value minivan and expanding that into having an off-road focused version is a win.
Frequent-Test-3012@reddit
Don't they already make the 4 door wrangler?
TFiPW@reddit
Throw on some rubber side moulding like the Citroen C4 cactus for good measure
RichardNixon345@reddit
The possibility of this is a good thing solely because it shows the Eurobrains that were crippling what was left of Chrysler are no longer calling the shots.
BassWingerC-137@reddit
I just watched Apex too, and her van was indeed bad ass.
Buc_ees@reddit
Or just make a new car, like large suv or a luxury sedan
InsertBluescreenHere@reddit
woul dof been great during covid when people were taking road trip vacations and whatnot... now? not sure...
Life_Menu_4094@reddit
I don't think I've ever seen a Woodland Sienna in real life. And I hardly see any Carnivals in the "SUV-inspired" latest iteration.
Much as people online fawn over the Delica, I don't think people who are sensible (eg: actual minivan owners) look to their cars for affirmation in the way offroad-trim crossover drivers do.
StillPissed@reddit
Chrysler should not do this, it should be a Jeep minivan on the Pacifica platform. With a mean grill, the Manosphere Mall Crawlers would be blowing going into massive debt for it.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Who still remember Jeep used to have COE and roadster variants ?
MisterDoctor___@reddit
As someone seriously looking at getting a Sienna and lifting it for some mild off road car camping, I hope off road minivans become a thing. But hybrid is a must so I can sleep in it with AC on.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
It’s already a thing if you know Mitsubishi Delica D:5. However, Mitsubishi motors only sold in Japan.
The good news is that they could bring it to America and worldwide with new redesign Delica.
Ziakel@reddit
6.2L Pacifica. Don’t be a coward Stellantis…
PowerSpool@reddit
Wack ass ideas just bring back the crossfire atp
Stackly@reddit
I saw the concept build for this at the Detroit Auto Show earlier this year. Super cool car but I can't imagine this actually selling all that well
Jin_Ezawa@reddit
Literally anything to avoid a crossover, huh
Like, I kinda gotta respect it. And the idea's cool. But eventually, as a business, Chysler's gotta actually put out.....y'know, product. Product that buyers want. An almost decade-old vehicle in a niche class can't carry forever
Jlx_27@reddit
Its nuts Chrysler still exists....
Euler007@reddit
For the family man with poor impulse control!
Hustletron@reddit
The ones that aren’t the 50% of Americans that bought a truck and don’t need one, that is.
Euler007@reddit
Yeah but what if one day they have to tow 15000 pounds, they'll save the cost of a rental! Or instead of getting 100 sheets of Sheetrock delivered on a flatbed with a mini crane they can have pleasure of loading them into a cart, to the cashier, then the truck. Oh shit, forgot the straps, gotta go back in to go buy some.
hawksdiesel@reddit
Called an SUV. Consider making quality products 1st.
xrelaht@reddit
Two days ago, I said the Stellantis brand reconfiguration was gonna lead to a Jeep minivan. Now, here we are.
Dragonasaur@reddit
I'm also considering becoming an off-roading minivan
AndroidMyAndroid@reddit
But they started making 4 door Wranglers years ago?
Kugelfischer_47@reddit
These type of vehicles will become the new house for the working poor.
mlarks21@reddit
So Mitsubishi Delica?
TryingSquirrel@reddit
Ugggh this is my dream vehicle category and Stellantis brings it to market? Dammit.
Castrol-5w30@reddit
I mean, I legitimately want an Odyssey Trailsport. So I get it.
DracoDragonite@reddit
do auto manufacturers just use this car pod as market research in the big 2026
Aurailious@reddit
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, but I like the simplicity of that design.
SophistXIII@reddit
Give us a Pacificat you cowards
NightFuryToni@reddit
Why not both? An off-road Pacificat...
Sarcasticallysmooth@reddit
Would honestly love this on the market. If only Mitsubishi would bring us the Delica
CurbsEnthusiasm@reddit
This and a pop top camper van would be no brainer special models. Why not a windowless commercial panel van too? They only have one freaking model vehicle, at least accessorize it a bit, make a flavor for everyone’s needs. At this point they might as well buy one of the wheelchair van manufactures and make a factory wheelchair van.
Potential-Ant-6320@reddit
It makes more sense to make a minivan better at offriading than turning an suv into a minivan.
Thee_Sinner@reddit
Sure, but they won’t throw the gel at engine in like we wanted…
maybach320@reddit
Doug DeMuros review will be gold.
NightFuryToni@reddit
Return of the Mazda MPV with locking diff 4WD?
LastTimeOn_@reddit
I was thinking GM's rebodied U-bodies lol
costafilh0@reddit
They have been watching too much Doug DeMuro 😂
TenderfootGungi@reddit
I have had to turn around on mountain roads because they got too rough. I would love one. But there is no way I am buying anything from Chrysler.
TheBobInSonoma@reddit
Desperately looking for ways to get people interested in minivans again. Next, a hemi convertible!
fiero-fire@reddit
I mean it has a market. Van lifers, photographers and videographers would love it. Now can they make it good and reasonably priced? I have my doubts
killshelter@reddit
It would absolutely sell
Significant-Pen-6049@reddit
How about a reliable mini van period
Impossible-Mango9658@reddit
Oh like an SUV
SH4RPSPEED@reddit
I mean that's cool, but it's not like Chrysler currently has many other options for something "interesting" in their lineup considering a minivan is all they have.
DaHozer@reddit
Chevy beat them to it with the Traverse.
InfinitePossibility8@reddit
So a crossover with sliding doors then.
Emotional_Signal7883@reddit
You could live out of that thing.