Is it normal to fly with new people?
Posted by Immediate_1200@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 46 comments
Obviously it’s sounds a little crazy to say pilots meet other pilots online (strangers at first) to time build with. Of course you can use judgement based on flight time, ratings, background checks, vibes, etc. there’s always going to be some inherent risk, but isn’t that just the reality of the aviation industry especially as a low time pilot? I’d appreciate some thoughts on this.
d4rkha1f@reddit
As a CFI, I fly with new people all the time and it’s awesome! I get to know lots of people and forge new friendships. Aviation generally brings out the best in people so it’s usually going to be a great time.
vtjohnhurt@reddit
A CFI with a student can take the controls. Two CFIs/PPLs can fight over the controls.
d4rkha1f@reddit
Sorry, what's your point?
And a student can most definitely fight you for the controls. https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/y0hear/virginia_flight_instructor_23_killed_during/
xtalgeek@reddit
I've never flown with people met online, but have with pilots met locally. I generally don't do this anymore unless I know the pilot very well. One pilot I flew with (by request to be their copilot) was someone who was not competent to navigate cross country, had poor control of his aircraft, and made very poor fuel planning and preflight inspection decisions. Our one and only flight almost ended in a runway overrun due to a flat right brake discovered on preflight and ignored, coupled with a far-too-fast and high approach. It takes extreme lack of skill and awareness to try to run a C172 off the end or sides of a 4000 foot runway. I had to take control of the aircraft to avoid an accident. And that was after multiple missteps and poor nav tracking during the flight, which should have been a clue. Take care when electing to fly with other pilots in their aircraft.
chicagoderp@reddit
I don't go flying with people without talking about how much gas we have. There's one really easy NTSB report to avoid and I can promise you, you'll never see my name on one of those.
vtjohnhurt@reddit
A second set of eyes can improve See and Avoid.
Nice_Young_4188@reddit
Yes I fly with people all the time through Facebook pilot groups. Safety pilot etc. great way to fly with people and make it cheaper and I also hate flying solo 🤷♂️
snoutpower@reddit
How does it make the flight cheaper if a safety pilot can only be used for flying under the hood or if he takes the controls?
Mountain-Captain-396@reddit
You split the cost with them
snoutpower@reddit
Right, but correct men if I'm wrong but only the portion of the flight that he is at the controls or is looking out while I'm under the hood is "splittable", right?. On a 2 hour flight, we can't split it 50/50 since he is likely not in control or safety pilot exactly 50% of the time...
Mountain-Captain-396@reddit
Each person takes one leg under the hood, split the cost 50/50. You end up logging slightly less than the total rental time.
shaf7@reddit
Unless you're flying on the corporate side, you'll rarely know the people you fly with. In the airlines it's someone new every trip.
Cessnateur@reddit
Yeah, but OP specifically mentioned the inherent risk in not knowing anything about the other pilot. At the airlines, everyone you fly with will have been screened and trained to certain standards. Quite a bit different from hopping into an Aztec with some rando.
shaf7@reddit
Haha yes, and that's mostly true, but everyone in the airlines has had a few moments with someone that shouldn't be there 💀
diamonddealer@reddit
It happens all the time.
True story - I was approached by someone at my local field about joining a "club" partnership on a 182. Flew with him once, and it scared the shit out of me. Wildly irresponsible approach to maintenance, operations, and safety. I was incredibly relieved to get back on the ground. Obviously, I noped out of that situation.
A few years later, this happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUSUXnr4dSo
I recognized the voice immediately. That was the guy.
draggingmytail@reddit
Ooooh I remember this one! Guy was such an ass
snoutpower@reddit
What the?! This is WILD!!!
diamonddealer@reddit
Yeah. Crazy.
FeatherMeLightly@reddit
Flew a lot of hours with other pilots I didn't know st first. Check certs and, you'll both have to get past a rental check ride if renting, so they should get caught there if they suck.
I've never had a problem, I just make sure to discuss who is going to do what during preflight conversation. Other than that, just be mentally prepared for conversation to go where ever. You won't always fly with people who agree with your every opinion.
chicagoderp@reddit
Yes. You can either spend a lot of time talking to them, or have a short meet and greet and go flying.
I've backed out of potential airplane partnerships because someone scared the shit out of me in an airplane. Great guy, never getting close to an airplane with him again.
coldcarb@reddit
What did they do???
chicagoderp@reddit
I had another airplane at the time; took him flying in that, let him take the airplane for a bit. He accidentally went negative Gs twice and while doing turns around a point at \~3500ft AGL took us beyond 60 degree bank angle. These aren't necessarily bad things, but when they're unexpected it's uncomfortable.
coldcarb@reddit
Accidentally twice!! Who gave him a license.
chicagoderp@reddit
He's a doctor, too... Should have known better.
Spacekyakingnerd@reddit
Does he own a v-tail bonanza?
hartzonfire@reddit
Or an SR22?
Mountain-Captain-396@reddit
These young kids these days don't remember that before Cirrus even existed the Bo' was called the Doctor Killer
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
That said, my wife's OB-GYN took off in his V 35B, climbing out of 4k agl the prop stopped and the windshield was covered in oil. He turned it around and dead sticked it back on the runway.
Also my AME (ophthalmologist) was a CMEL CFII and taught a 10 hr no fear acrobatic course in his Super Decathlon. He lost the engine on a brand new Decathlon taking off from our airpark at 300 agl. It looked like a really step wing over and he landed back on the deck. Very nonchalant about it. Champion hung a new motor on it a week later because he had a full show schedule over the summer.
I was fortunate to do his multi engine and then MEI training two years later. He added ratings vs just a BFR every couple years. Total recall when training. I never repeated anything twice.
chicagoderp@reddit
Sorry; I was just trying to have a little fun with my comment given the history.
There's really a good chance that I flew with this guy on an off day. We're still friends and we've never talked about this flight. It was apparent we had different tastes in airplanes anyway. Much respect to our doctor brethren out there.
Antique-Kitchen-1896@reddit
So he pushed on the controls while at 60 degrees? So you were basically falling sideways?
chicagoderp@reddit
Maybe I'm weak but it really got to my stomach.
Antique-Kitchen-1896@reddit
Well the "hey recover this" for spiral dive on my test ride felt like a 90. She really chuck it in before saying your controls. I don't recall what I felt except wow that's some angle. 😂
SSMDive@reddit
Yes, you just meet them and from your conversation decide if you want to fly with them.
I'll be a bit of a contrarian here and maybe a bit of a Debbie Downer.... Flying with people you don't know can be one of the riskiest things you can do. I had a guy stomp on a rudder pedal on take off in a seaplane. Had a buddy have a passenger turn off the fuel selector and kill the engine. I have had many cases where in someone else's plane they want to roll the plane while I am with them. I was flying with a guy who didn't have a medical and needed a pilot to be legal and he just ignored our fuel plan, but told me he switched tanks like we planned and we ran out of fuel on a long final. My dumb-ass didn't verify he had changed tanks but I asked him and he said he did. One guy took me flying in his newly bought 150. He had not flown in 10 years and the plane had not flown in 5 (things I found out after we flew). Had a guy that was not rated for the aircraft keep grabbing the controls since he was a CFI in another category. Had one guy ask to do the landing in my plane and when it bounced he just threw his hands in the air and told me, "your plane!"
Then there can be really sketchy planes. The guy with the 5 year out of date Cessna. He told me after the flight that he ran to Tractor Supply to get a battery that morning. Then I flew in a guys 180... That had NEVER had the engine rebuilt. So that engine was built in 1960ish and had NEVER been rebuilt. Found that out after our flight as well.
After all this I started being a bit more cautious with who I flew with.
As they say, never share a foxhole with someone braver than you!
arcticslush@reddit
Jesus, you've really run the gamut of things that could go wrong. I'm glad you're still here to tell the tale.
moxiedoggie@reddit
Same. I’ve met great people though a flight simulation discord group and gone flying with them.
However one time I met a guy on the same discord and had a great flight with him no issues. Only to find out he was arrested years ago for lighting someone on fire. I didn’t fly with him again
jeevacation_gmail@reddit
That escalated quickly
CaptMcMooney@reddit
man you modern kids, when i got my license, i'd go up in anything that had wings and the pilot was breathing
Mispelled-This@reddit
You can learn a lot about another pilot in just a few minutes, but the first few times, you won’t know how to process it and make a good decision until you fly with many people and start seeing patterns.
Realistically, though, I’ll fly with pretty much anyone once. Most I would fly with again, and the exceptions were more annoyances than truly unsafe piloting. And they might say the same of me, for all I know.
Antique-Kitchen-1896@reddit
You are asking about building time? You are at a flight school? Do you feel the school produces good pilots and have good standards?
I'd hop into a plane with anyone who's licensed from my school having seen the training and expectations myself. I would be a lot less comfortable with someone from one of the other school at the field as I have seen some idiotic behaviours from them.
You can do that and time build that way and feel more comfortable.
Immediate_1200@reddit (OP)
Yes building time. And good point. I was mainly talking about people meeting in facebook groups
BeeDubba@reddit
I flew with a bunch of people when I was time building. Sometimes I could be picky, but often was not.
I was a military pilot, so my preference was for other military folks. After that, CFIs or other professional pilots, after that, I would do a quick social media background check to see if they were reasonable people.
One dude I met through a FB group started haggling with me about the hourly rate on the second message. If you knew anything about flying, you'd know my split rate was CHEAP. I'd rather fly solo than with someone giving me a hard time over $40/hr flight time.
Immediate_1200@reddit (OP)
I feel similarly (also a military pilot). Preference is either flying in my clubs plane that i can take control of at anytime or CFIs or professional pilots 700hrs + with verified recent flights and social media background check plus google check. Some people make it seem like it’s an insane concept to get in the cockpit with new people and make comments about how they can’t wait to see me end up on an accident report or murder documentary. Those type make me have second thoughts, but I also think they could be ignorant to the climate of the industry, so I take it with a grain of salt.
moxiedoggie@reddit
Same. I’ve met great people though a flight simulation discord group and gone flying with them. Awesome way to meet people
aw_shux@reddit
New people, old people, it’s all the same to me.
saxmanB737@reddit
Yes.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Obviously it’s sounds a little crazy to say pilots meet other pilots online (strangers at first) to time build with. Of course you can use judgement based on flight time, ratings, background checks, vibes, etc. there’s always going to be some inherent risk, but isn’t that just the reality of the aviation industry especially as a low time pilot? I’d appreciate some thoughts on this.
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