Living in Europe but still thinking about moving to the US — does this feeling ever go away?
Posted by Ahme7ibrahim@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 274 comments
I’ve built a stable life in Europe and I’m generally fine here, but for years I’ve still had this constant thought about moving to the US.
Long_Relationship578@reddit
The problems with living in Europe are not talked enough, so a lot of people get massively dissapointed once they move.
The problems in the US are well known, so people heading there already took that into consideration, so they dont tend to give up so easily.
This is why we feel that Europe is worst than the US in most immigrant forums.
Both places have their plus and minus, and you need to focus what you want for your life.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
Spot on, the way Europeans sweep their issues under the rug while acting morally superior is exhausting. They love to point fingers at the US for its visible problems but completely ignore the fact that Europe was built on the back of brutal colonialism and wars that decimated the rest of the world. Even today, they haven't paid a cent in reparations for the wealth they drained from Africa, Asia, and the Americas, which accounts for trillions in lost development. While they lecture everyone else on human rights, the racism there is often deeper and more systemic because it is disguised as "protecting culture." In Australia or the US, we actually have the hard conversations about our history and current social gaps, whereas in Europe, if you bring up how their past fueled their current wealth, they just act like you are being irrational. It is much better to live in a place like Australia where we are at least honest about the work that needs to be done rather than living in a European museum that refuses to acknowledge the damage it did to get those pretty buildings.
No_Strike_6794@reddit
Lol
Adelefushia@reddit
A comment from another Non-European acting like :
a) Europe is one single entity and not a myriad of very different countries, with very different cultures, religions, languages, past, and way of life ;
b) Former colonial European powers NEVER talked about their colonial past in History class, never faced the problem in any ways, and literally EVERYONE in those countries either ignore their crimes of the past or pretend it wasn't a crime, as if only Australia and the US were the only countries which had the "hard conversations" ; SPOILER ALERT : most people from colonial powers in Western Europe are at the very least aware of the crimes of their countries and acknowledged. Yes there is still work to be done, just as in any country in the planet, but acting like 99% of us ignore the problems and never done anything today or in the past to face the issues shows more an ignorance from your side.
c) 99% of the wealth / social progress / pretty buildings or former European colonial powers are only because of colonization, as if Europeans never did anything by myself and only stole other countries ;
d) trying to protect some traditions from centuries ago was inherently "racist" or "nationalistic" ;
d) Europe never talked or made strict laws against racism / social gaps, there have never been protests against racism in some Europeans in their History...
... I could go on. You are accusing Europeans of being "morally superior" but the very fact that you are talking about Europe as one big country and only reduce them to their colonial past, and acting like they aren't aware of it / never faced their problems in the past is ironical.
Ironically enough, some of the most racist Europeans I've met were from Eastern Europe, which as far as I know never colonized Africa or Asia.
If you're making broad generalization like this and thinking "Yurop" is like one monolithic big country full of imperialists and revisionnists, then don't be surprised Europeans act "morally superior".
Can't talk about Australia, but what I see currently is that the US, the country which "actually have the hard conversations" as you said, is now governed by a narcissistic warmonger, after being elected TWICE. And they still have an unfair health system and way less wealth redistribution. So yeah, I'd rather stay in Europe, thanks.
defixiones@reddit
The Europeans who drained the wealth of the Americas and Australia call themselves America and Australians now.
Why do you think they are so wealthy?
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
That is such a tired attempt to pass the buck, as if the modern citizens of the Anglosphere aren't the ones actually doing the work to reconcile with the past while European capitals are still literally built out of gold stolen from Africa and Asia. The wealth in Europe isn't just "old money," it’s the foundation of your entire social safety net that you use to lecture the rest of the world, yet you haven't paid a cent in reparations for the centuries of drain that left the Global South struggling. While Australians and Americans are actually having the hard conversations about land rights and historical justice, Europeans just sit in their "gilded museums" acting like the colonial wealth they still enjoy just appeared out of thin air.
Repulsive_Side2492@reddit
The US literally disbanded USAID and isn’t paying a dime to people that need it. Get your aas out of your butt.
Tw1tch-Invictus@reddit
USAid was a blatant giveaway to NGOs and needed to die. We’re still spending 50 billion on foreign assistance, it just isn’t under USAID anymore, and it’s scaled down from what it was. Programs like “Food for Peace” have been renamed and moved under the USDA instead of USAid but still very much exist. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
defixiones@reddit
Do you have anything to support that? Because all those programs were gutted.
Tw1tch-Invictus@reddit
They were not, this has all been widely documented and reported on for anyone who doesn’t consume their media from an insular silo.
https://maryknollogc.org/2026/03/03/2026_foreign_aid/
defixiones@reddit
I don't know who the Mary Knoll Sisters are but here is some more recent coverage from the Guardian and NY Times;
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/26/pepfar-hiv-aids-trump-administration
https://archive.is/20260317203728/https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/16/health/zambia-hiv-aid-minerals-trump.html
They paint a much less rosy picture.
Tw1tch-Invictus@reddit
I don't know what to tell you, but neither of your sources dispute what I said whatsoever. It's objective, easily verifiable fact we are still funding global efforts to the tune of tens of billions of dollars worldwide. The lie about us not giving a dime was just that, a lie.
defixiones@reddit
"The US government released likely the last report from Pepfar (President’s Emergency Plan for Aids Relief) earlier this month and the chief science officer announced his resignation days later as the US moves to a patchwork of individual partnerships with each country, potentially driven by resource extraction."
PEPFAR is gone, anything else will come from fringe groups like the "Mary Knoll Sisters" and will be contingent on "resource extraction" e.g. extortion.
Are you saying this is a lie?
Tw1tch-Invictus@reddit
Do you genuinely not see how you're blatantly moving the goal posts here?
This went from claiming the U.S. "isn't paying a dime" to arguing that the teens of billions we are actually paying have unethical strings attached. You are conflating a draft policy memo targeting one specific country with the complete dissolution of a multi-billion-dollar global program. The NYT article you linked discusses a draft memo from the State Department proposing to withhold aid from Zambia as leverage for mineral rights. That is an aggressive, transactional policy shift, but it absolutely does not mean PEPFAR is "gone".
Here is the objective, legislative reality: The FY2026 budget, passed by Congress and signed into law this past February, explicitly allocates $4.6 billion specifically for PEPFAR. No PEPFAR is not gone, and yes, if you're saying it is, that is explicitly a bald-faced lie.
defixiones@reddit
> likely the last report from Pepfar (President’s Emergency Plan for Aids Relief)
Maybe you're not familiar with Vought's playbook. The president can't close or defund these programmes, so the OMB just refuses to disburse the funds that congress allocates and then fires all the staff. PEPFAR is gone and it's not coming back.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/15/russ-vought-budget-hearing
Any remaining lose change will be handed to 'a patchwork of individual partnerships' and the administration will half-heartedly try to extort mineral rights in exchange for emergency medicine.
Tw1tch-Invictus@reddit
We could go back and forth on this all day. Activists who have a vested financial stake in returning to the old status quo will always have their gripes and if you want to believe them or not is up to you. We’re now getting lost in the weeds after shifting the goal posts when the FACT is that we are still giving 50 billion a year in humanitarian relief across the world.
defixiones@reddit
That 50 billion has not materialised and never will.
You probably think that USAID, FEMA, NOAA, the National Parks Service, the Departments of State and Education are all still fully manned and funded.
https://americanoversight.org/investigation/the-trump-administrations-dismantling-of-federal-agencies-and-threats-to-important-social-services/
Vought hasn't finished his Project 2025 list yet. There are going to be serious problems the next time any kind of national emergency hits the US.
That's without talking about the cuts to health and science. Social security and Medicare are next on the list.
The President doesn't have the power to do any of this, but there it is.
Tw1tch-Invictus@reddit
I was pretty clear that USAID has been dissolved, nothing I said implied that any of that was fully manned and funded.
There are always serious problems any time a national emergency hits the U.S., that’s kind of the nature of national emergencies.
defixiones@reddit
That's why you create agencies that are funded to respond to serious problems.
USAID has not been dissolved, only Congress has the power to do that.
If you look at what the president/Vought are doing, you'll see that they fire everyone and refuse to disburse the funds allocated by congress.
As stated in their pre-election plan.
This is why the money you are talking about doesn't exist.
JefeRex@reddit
Your comment is an example of what the commenter said Europeans commonly do… point the finger at the US to avoid taking responsibility for themselves. Did you want to respond to that point that the commenter made, or no? It was their central point actually.
defixiones@reddit
If you don't know any history and you don't understand statistics then I'd say your chances of success are pretty low. Especially if you are actively seeking out more racist countries with less social mobility.
Have you considered retaining so that you can do your job to European standards instead?
JuanistaD@reddit
I understand in someway where you are coming from, but you speak about Europe as one whole country. There is a lot of difference between all the countries there. It’s the same as us saying Americans just want to go to war, get fat and take drugs, while it’s only a certain portion of the population.
Spiritual_Driver_593@reddit
More than a "certain portion", right? I mean Trump was elected by millions of crazy people...
Squirrel_McNutz@reddit
But they didn’t necessarily sign on for those wars. He campaigned as anti war.
Not making excuses for the idiots who voted for him but it’s disingenuous to say they did because they wanted more wars.
Spiritual_Driver_593@reddit
I agree, Trump was actually anti-war before he started one... but I meant that he campaign for e.g. brutal migrant policies and people voted for that and, to be honest, just voting twice for this crazy guy is nuts... but hey the midterms are coming, so if this time the americans should be fixing the issue after seeing all these crap... right? right?
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
While there are regional differences, the trend of economic stagnation and systemic gatekeeping is a continent-wide reality that makes "European stability" a gilded cage for anyone with the ambition to build real wealth in the 21st century.
BummsiBummsi@reddit
While you are not completely wrong its a crazy overexageration. Most European countries did not have any colonies. In the case of Germany for example the colonies were net a loss of wealth. For France, Britain, Belgium, Netherlands, Portugal and Spain, I would mostly agree with you. But Europe is over 30 Nations and most of them we're not colonial powers. And saying Europe is not talking about its past is just plain wrong. Through my my entire education, that was basically everything we learned in History classes was the dark Side of our History. And sorry the US is so much more positive in its History then Europe, epscially countries Like Germany is. The US education system is one of the most incorrect progagandists systems in the Western world, wtf are you talking about. For Australia, I know too little to have an Opinion.
Kallisto1911@reddit
Brother, you Americans still occupy land that isn’t yours. We left all our colonies.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
I am not even American, but I find it hilarious that you claim to have "left" your colonies when you still sit in your European capitals enjoying the stolen wealth, infrastructure, and global leverage that those centuries of brutal occupation bought you.
Squirrel_McNutz@reddit
Plus how many there still are. Most colonial powers still hold plenty of territories. Look at France for example.
deep-sea-balloon@reddit
Also, "left" in some cases means absorbing them and the locals into the country. Sure, the people voted to join, but...when one holds the wealth and stability, it's loaded choice.
zoopz@reddit
You rant about colonialism (what does an expat care) and racism and then promote Australia. Lol. Their attitudes towards the indigenous people was shocking to me.
Kattimatti666@reddit
Ahem, Finland here. We do not have a colonial past, does that mean we get to act superior? I think your view is a bit underdeveloped, things are rarely black and white. We should seek to understand when learning about a place, rather than going in with an attitude and searching out things that confirm it. I have seen plenty of European countries dealing with their troublesome past, just like everywhere else.
iamcode101@reddit
You can act superior when you get a handle on your alcohol consumption.
Kattimatti666@reddit
Finland is usually in the middle when they do European drinking comparisons. And we won't act superior anyhow, it's not our style. I just don't like that "all white people/Europeans robbed everything they have and haven't given anything back" rhetoric, because it doesn't apply to me, yet I get lumped in.
iamcode101@reddit
I should have included a winky face with my reply, because it was definitely written in jest. Though my one Finnish friend does drink a lot, and somehow in all of his party pictures, someone always ends up in their underwear.
Kattimatti666@reddit
Oh yeah, when we drink, we fucking drink. I don't anymore, but there are definitely several underwear pics in my past. Our word Kalsarikännit, underwear drunk, got popular online a few years ago. Technically it refers to drinking by yourself at home, in your underwear, with no intention of going out. So the underwear-alcohol connection is very strong!
sailoorscout1986@reddit
So they’re not talking about Finland but their point still stands about a lot of European countries.
Kattimatti666@reddit
I was only pointing out the error of talking about "Europe" as a singular thing. Every country has their history, and some deal with it better than others. We have less to be ashamed about than most, our slate is amazingly clean when it comes to exploiting others. Yet we are "Europe", so when I see statements like the one I replied to, I can't help but correcting them.
grazie42@reddit
Remind me again about the US founding?
What reparation has the US paid to the indiginous population or descendants of slaves?
But Im sure your ”hard conversations” is reparation enough…
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
The US and Australia have actually allocated hundreds of billions in modern funding for Indigenous healthcare, education, and land rights—with the US alone paying over $3.6 billion in recent settlements for land mismanagement and Australia returning over 50% of its landmass to traditional owners—while Europe hasn't paid back a single cent of the trillions it drained from the Global South.
Your attempt to mock "hard conversations" is just a deflection from the fact that European wealth is built on a massive, unpaid debt, yet you lot still act like you have the moral high ground while sitting in museums filled with stolen goods. At least the Anglosphere admits its history and actively funds restorative justice, whereas European "reparations" usually just amount to "we're sorry we stole everything, but we're keeping the money."
grazie42@reddit
Where are the settlers of australia and the US from?
Dont they owe the same debt as europeans who didnt keep colonizing new continents?
Quitelowquitetall@reddit
It is a hard conversation that Europe is (too) slowly dealing with, but it is unfair to talk about Europe as one singular entity.
As mentioned before, countries like Finland did not partake in the looting of Africa and Asia. On the flip side, states like Russia are doing a fantastic job keeping that tradition alive in Africa and Europe.
Former colonial powers, like Germany and The Netherlands, have issued formal apologies for the roles their governments played during this time, or returned looted artifacts of significance.
Every empire was built on exploitation and violence, be it the British, the Japanese, the US, etc. All of them suck at trying to make up for it.
I'm not sure about the Australians, but I don't feel like the Americans have really had the hard conversations and I do want to hear your opinion on it. This is not intended as a whataboutism :)
Slavery is a part of the brutal colonialism and exploitation that formed the backbone of a lot of states in the past, including the US.
Despite having fought a civil war over it, the states are still dotted with flags of the Confederacy and monuments to the people leading the separatists.
Slavery continued despite the North winning the war in forms like debt peonage until the 1950's and it is still not fully banned, per the 13th amendment.
Is that part of the hard conversations that are now being held? Because I've seen a lot of dishonesty about that topic so far :(
deep-sea-balloon@reddit
I'm Black American (ADOS) and I feel that us Americans have had plenty of hard conversations, almost always being led by members BAs. I am proud of my living ascendants who are either still alive or I've known personally (grandparents, great grandparents) who've helped hold America's feet to the fire. Our history is well documented - there is a Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC with exhibits in this and that is one of many.
Nonetheless, Americans still have a long way to go and there feels like a lot of backsliding has been happening in the last couple of decades. And of course, there is undoubtedly a debt that is still owed.
So I think the dishonesty you're seeing is coming from specific subsets of the populations, but we have always been trying. Things may get worse before better, as they often do.
Now I live in Western Europe and I see some of the same dishonesty amongst (subsets) of the population. It's in someways more difficult here because the indigenous cultures are (generally) still a majority and non-Europeans are not (yet). Also, they made sure to keep their enslaved elsewhere and siphon resources from afar.
I find casual racism and xenophobia more tolerated than what I'm used to, and less pushback and avenues for addressing it. Systemic issues abound as well. If I bring it up, people get really upset...and then start with insulting comments about "sensitive Americans" 😂
Agree with you that awareness is increasing, but very, very slowly. Eventually, people here will have to face when Americans, Canadians, Brazilians, Australians continue to, there is no running anymore.
Few_Macaron_9736@reddit
Breath and go touch some grass.
Double-Bug9678@reddit
Britain paid reparations at the end of the 19th century to modern times via taxes, to free all colonial slaves and most of the money went directly to new governments, such as in Jamaica. This amount was so huge that it was only paid off fully a few years ago.
And no Europe was not built on slavery. Those castles, ruins and ancient monuments were there long before the practice of chattel slavery. No, Rome and Athens didnt practice chattel slavery they had forms of domestic servitude and the servants had rights You couldnt beat, r*pe, steal from or general mistreat a servant, and certainly not allowed to kill them otherwise you would be taken to court. More often theu were freed after a period of time and kept as family members, Rome called the practice manumission.
The chattel slavery you reference has a far weightier history between sub saharans and middle eastern peoples. The Europeans came to that table last, was in it for the shortest time, and today are the only people who spent money and shed blood to end it anywhere they had power. Even the history of colonialism was justified due to finding barbaric practices such as slavery, ritual human sacrifice and cannibalism among primitive peoples.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
Calling that a "civilizing mission" is the same old racist garbage used to justify the systematic theft of trillions in resources and the destruction of global civilizations. Your claim that the wealth was used for "new governments" is a complete fabrication; those funds were paid to compensate the oppressors for their "lost property," and it took nearly two centuries to finish paying off the debt that enriched those wealthy families. While you try to paint Europeans as the moral heroes who ended slavery, you conveniently ignore that they industrialized it on a global scale to fund the very "lifestyle" you now use to look down on the rest of the world.
Double-Bug9678@reddit
I am quite comfortable with the fact my ancestors built things, I am also comfortable with their mistakes.
And the people who owned those slaves are now dead, who was being paid with tax money up until 2014?
Your mention of industrialisation is funny, because it wasn't an 'industry' in the strict sense of the word. Though let's say that industry is still practiced in sub saharan Africa today, which it is. And havent you ever read of the saharan slave trade? The barbary slave markets?
call-ana@reddit
You should post this on r/Europe and watch people squirm.
More-Cartoonist-3887@reddit
Exactly!
ogupsetamerican@reddit
Therapist here - sounds like a part of you is missing or grieving the loss. Tend to that part as if you’re a parent consoling a child, as a wise parent would. It’s your hometown, so it’s understandable we yearn for our familiarity and warmth.
(Taking my therapist hat off)
Then go to every religious house of worship where you live and thank all the Gods you got the fuck out and live in Europe!!!!!!!!
If you’re not making over $200k at least a year your struggling in the cities most people want to live in. The middle class is getting strangled and living pay check to pay check, the government is insane and do you want your hard hearted tax dollars to fund Zionism and a ballroom???? Trump and his family are straight up looting the country while gutting it of all its wholesome values. That’s what’s happening.
Sending you lots of warmth.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
Moving to the US, Australia, or New Zealand isn't just about a change of scenery; it is about escaping the structural stagnation that often defines life in Europe. In the US, you have an earning potential and a level of career dynamism that makes European salaries look like pocket money, while Australia and New Zealand offer a "fair go" culture where quality of life actually means spending your time outdoors rather than just surviving a grey winter. Unlike the rigid social hierarchies and "gatekeeping" you find in places like Germany or France—where you are always an outsider unless you fit a very specific mold—these countries are built on migration and actually value what you can contribute today. You trade the "stable but stagnant" European model for higher purchasing power, more space, and a society that doesn't treat professional ambition or being a newcomer like a problem to be solved. If you are feeling the itch, it is probably because you have realized that Europe is great for a holiday, but the Anglosphere is where you actually build a future.
defixiones@reddit
Wait, are you talking about Australia? "White Australia Policy" Australia?
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
Bringing up a policy that was abolished 50 years ago is just a desperate attempt to ignore the fact that modern Australia is a successful multicultural society, while Europe is currently sliding backward into "ghetto laws" and far-right exclusionary politics. Unlike in Germany or France, where you can live for 30 years and still be treated like an outsider unless you assimilate perfectly, Australia actually values what you bring to the table today. We have the hard conversations about our past and work to fix it, while Europeans just point fingers to distract from the reality that their "stability" still relies on gatekeeping and looking down on anyone from the rest of the world.
defixiones@reddit
Australia is still one of the most racist first-world countries and the US suffers from structural racism and resurgent white nationalism.
At least the US left have put some work in, Australia is still pretty appalling.
1294DS@reddit
That's pretty rich coming from an Irish person. You lot constantly bang on about how open and tolerant you are then you got a handful of migrants and in a matter of days you were out in the streets rioting Ireland for the Irish over a fraction of what Australia gets. Wasn't there an asylum seeker center there that got burned down? Yeah not taking notes from you.
defixiones@reddit
I don't need to hide my comment history because 'my lot' don't need to make any excuses. We've never had riots over immigration and 20% of the population are foreign-born.
Australians are good people but let's face it, they have serious problems with racism. Immigrants sew their lips together and commit suicide in concentration camps. The indigenous population have had to put up with native passes, boundary roads and dog licences.
And look at this list of racist parties - you won't see anything like that in Ireland
1294DS@reddit
Every instance where I point out Ireland's racism online I'm met with extreme denial from Irish people.
Ireland got on board the anti immigrant protest wave well before Australia did, and attacks against Indians are becoming very commonplace. I don't recall Australians burning immigrant and asylum centers recently.
Ireland has never had riots over immigration?? There's literally a Wiki page on that. The Irish far right pounced on an opportunity to get the racists all riled up and was hugely successful.
That's a nice list but how many votes do those parties get? Half of them are inactive and have barely made a blip in elections. One Nation the largest anti immigration party only got 6% of the vote at the last Federal Election.
My parents are Singapore Chinese, despite what a lot of Irish people think we actually do multiculturalism very well and do a good job at integrating immigrants, 32% of Australia's population are foreign born.
defixiones@reddit
What is it that Irish people meet with extreme denial?
I think we're aware that people get racist abuse in the streets and that people have been beaten up. There is considerable racism against Travellers. However most of your claims are specious.
Your 'immigration riot' wikipedia page actually says "The riot was triggered by a man stabbing three young children and a care assistant at around 1:30 p.m. GMT that day outside a primary school in Parnell Square East, Dublin." I'm sure it attracted racists, but it was not initially about immigration.
Australians don't burn immigration centres because they are high-security concentration camps on remote islands. In Ireland, refugees are hosted in hotels and houses. The arson attacks in Ireland are pretty bad, but they are pre-emptive attacks on unoccupied buildings.
As for your 'attacks against Indians are becoming very commonplace', the link says "In the most brutal assault, an Indian man in Tallaght was left bleeding, robbed and stripped of his trousers". Meanwhile in Australia, 'inquest finds police officer who shot Aboriginal teen was racist'. By comparison, there were zero gun deaths in Ireland last year.
I know I'd rather have my trousers robbed than be shot by racist police.
No right wing Irish parties get 6% of the vote. The mainstream Australian parties would be considered right wing in Ireland.
1294DS@reddit
Every instance where I point out Ireland's racism online I'm met with extreme denial from Irish people.
Ireland got on board the anti immigrant protest wave well before Australia did, and attacks against Indians are becoming very commonplace. I don't recall Australians burning immigrant and asylum centers recently.
That's a nice list but how many votes do those parties get? Half of them are inactive and have barely made a blip in elections. One Nation the largest anti immigration party only got 6% of the vote at the last Federal Election.
My parents are Singapore Chinese, despite what a lot of Irish people think we actually do multiculturalism and integrate immigrants very well, 32% of Australia's population are foreign born.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
It is pure projection to call Australia "appalling" while ignoring that European racism is so systemic it’s literally written into modern law, like Denmark’s "ghetto laws" or the rise of far-right governments in Italy and Hungary that openly push "racial purity" rhetoric. In the Anglosphere, we are actually doing the work to have the hard, public conversations about our history and current gaps, whereas Europeans just hide behind a mask of moral superiority while treating anyone from the rest of the world as intellectually inferior. You’re pointing at us to distract from the fact that Europe still functions as an exclusive club built on colonial theft, where you are never "really" European unless you fit a very specific, narrow ethnic mold.
defixiones@reddit
I think you mean "systematic" and the EU doesn't allow any racist laws.
Where do you think the concept of anti-colonialism comes from? I'll give you a clue, it didn't originate in America or Australia, the two last pro-slavery countries in the first world.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
Claiming the EU "doesn't allow" racist laws is a joke when Denmark’s "Ghetto Laws" literally mandate forced relocation based on ethnicity, proving that Europe’s "anti-colonialism" is just a hollow academic export used to mask their modern exclusionary policies. Furthermore, your attempt to take the moral high ground is absurd given that Australia was never a "pro-slavery country" in the way you describe, whereas European nations industrialized global chattel slavery and then used that blood money to build the very "civilized" institutions you use to look down on the rest of the world today.
defixiones@reddit
Oh look, here it is challenged in an EU court
Meanwhile in Australia, where they allowed the hunting of native Australians for cash prizes, 'the work to have the hard, public conversations' seems to mostly amount to 'National Sorry Day'.
How many European countries even engaged in colonisation more than a century ago? Maybe 7 or 8. Meanwhile your 'Anglosphere' continues to keep the natives in camps and profit from their natural resources.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
Actually, your claims about Australia are objectively false and rely on urban myths rather than history; there is no historical record of "cash prizes for hunting humans," and Australia never had a "pro-slavery" legal framework like the industrialized chattel systems Europe pioneered. While you minimize European colonialism to just "7 or 8 countries," those nations—including Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, and Italy—controlled over 80% of the globe at one point, and the wealth drained (estimated at over $45 trillion from India alone) still funds the "stability" you brag about today. Furthermore, your "camps" rhetoric ignores that Indigenous Australians have been citizens with full voting rights since 1967, and today own or hold rights to approximately 54% of the Australian landmass, which is a level of restorative justice that European nations—who still refuse to return stolen artifacts or pay reparations—cannot even fathom.
defixiones@reddit
Objectively false, eh? In the early 1830s, governments across the colony offered bounties of £5 per aboriginal adult and £2 per child. And I never said 'chattel slavery', but slavery in Australia has existed in various forms from colonisation in 1788 to the present day.
And it doesn't matter how much of the globe Britain controlled if the other 36 countries of Europe weren't involved in colonialism.
35% of Australia is uninhabitable - guess which bits have been returned to its inhabitants? Even then, the colonists routinely destroy ancient monuments. Voting rights don't mean much if 90% of the indigenous population have been ethnically cleansed, leaving them at about 3.7% of the population.
Obviously Australia is the kind of racist society that suits you though.
-Copenhagen@reddit
There are way better places for social mobility in Europe than in the US.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/social-mobility-by-country
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
You are missing the point if you think the European "stability" is anything more than a gilded cage for anyone born outside their borders. If you are not from the continent you quickly realize that they look down on your qualifications and act as if anyone from the rest of the world is a bit slow or lacking basic intellect compared to them. I have seen brilliant doctors and engineers from places like India or Brazil move to Europe only to be told they need years of retraining or that they lack the proper soft skills because they don't fit a very specific and narrow cultural mold. In Australia or the US we actually judge you on your results and what you can do right now rather than treating you like a charity case that needs to be "civilized" into their way of thinking. They love to act superior about their social systems while sitting on wealth stolen from the rest of the world but the reality is that the Anglosphere is where you are actually given a fair shake to succeed based on your own merit.
-Copenhagen@reddit
I didn't comment on stability.
I commented on social mobility.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
You are just splitting hairs to avoid the fact that your social mobility stats are a total fantasy for anyone who wasn't born with a European passport. It does not matter how high your "mobility" is on paper if a non-European professional is still treated like they are intellectually inferior and forced into endless retraining just to prove they are not "retarded" to their coworkers. Those metrics ignore the glass ceiling that hits as soon as an outsider tries to reach the top, whereas in Australia or the US, we actually judge you on your output rather than your pedigree.
hudibrastic@reddit
That mobility ranking is pure garbage, it just compares moving between percentiles… which is easier in Europe because it is a much flatter society, doesn't translate into real wealth
This is the problem with those rankings biased by a clear agenda, that most people won't care to understand their methodology anyway
dorumovul@reddit
Rrrriiight. I lived in Canada for 8 years and I'm well aware on how one is "judged on results and what one can do". As I practiced what I preach, one is free to move in any place which "is not sitting on wealth stolen from the rest of the world" ( imo, definitely not the anglosphere)
hudibrastic@reddit
This ranking is pure propaganda… they only compare percentiles and the probability to move from one to another percentile
Of course it is easier to move around percentiles in a flat society like many countries in Europe, but even if you go from p50 to p10 doesn't mean much in real purchasing power gain as their wealth is compressed
hudibrastic@reddit
The last sentence deserves to be framed
BothnianBhai@reddit
To be honest I've never wanted to live in the US. Never even been but from the outside it seems awful. What makes you want to move there?
Feeling-Attention43@reddit
Hollywood is a helluva drug lol
Squirrel_McNutz@reddit
Don’t need Hollywood to enjoy incredible nature, diverse communities and warm/friendly people.
Feeling-Attention43@reddit
“diverse communities”
Reddit moment LOL
More-Cartoonist-3887@reddit
I’ve lived in both Spain and the U.S., and I prefer the U.S. I also made more American friends than Spanish ones. I don’t want to generalize, but I’ve felt that some Europeans can come across as arrogant or have a sense of superiority.
void-nomad-90@reddit
I thought I was the only one noticing this but thankfully not! I feel all European countries are like this, every European thinks it’s superior to others and that’s one of the thing I hate about Europe. I have travel a lot in US and I like how Americans are nice and polite (at least the once I met and interact). In Europe I have seen a lot of rude people and having an attitude just because..
defixiones@reddit
Oh honey, everyone thinks their country is the best.
Were you disappointed they didn't think yours was better?
void-nomad-90@reddit
Dude where in the commend read that I think my country is the best? 😂 weird…..
defixiones@reddit
You complained that one of the things you hated about Europe was that every country thought they were superior.
I'm sure your country is perfectly good, better than theirs in some ways and worse in others. But everyone thinks their country is great - the trick is not to get upset about it.
More-Cartoonist-3887@reddit
I don’t think my country is better than any other. Like any place, it has strengths and weaknesses. In a similar way, I see many Americans openly discussing both the flaws and the positives within their own country. But, at least from my experience, I didn’t see that as much in Europe. I went there expecting one thing and found something quite different. Social issues like racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are widely discussed in many countries, but I felt like Europe is often portrayed as having fewer of these problems, which didn’t match what I experienced.
That said, every experience is unique. This has been mine so far, and it doesn’t mean I won’t change my perspective in the future.
defixiones@reddit
You found Americans more modest about their country?
Squirrel_McNutz@reddit
100% yes. I absolutely find the average American to be more realistic about the state of their country and the faults it has than the average Dutch person, to name an example. Yes there is a loud percentage of ‘America fuck yeah!’ idiots but those are generally the less educated people. Whereas in Europe I found particularly the well educated people were so arrogant and biased/hypocritical when it comes to judging other countries versus their own.
defixiones@reddit
I think I see, your comparison is based on a smaller cohort of well-educated people from Europe and the US.
Perhaps they are just more aware of the problems that the US has and is causing in the world?
More-Cartoonist-3887@reddit
I didn’t find Americans more modest, but rather more realistic and transparent. When you go there, you already have a clearer sense of what to expect.
In Europe, on the other hand, I felt that people are often very good at pointing out the problems in the United States, but don’t acknowledge their own to the same extent. I felt completely excluded in that environment. People would frequently comment on my background and even my skin tone (and I’m not a Black person).
In the U.S., I was already aware of the history and ongoing issues related to segregation, but despite that, I felt much more welcomed there than I did in Europe.
deep-sea-balloon@reddit
I've had people randomly comment on my skin tone too. My hair texture as well. And it's not been isolated. Very weird.
defixiones@reddit
So you were happier in America because you already expected them to think they were superior to you?
More-Cartoonist-3887@reddit
I was happier in the U.S. because people there seem more aware of their own flaws and are willing to discuss them openly. They also tend to give you space to express yourself and are open to listening and being welcoming, which made my experience there much better overall. In contrast, in my experience in Europe there’s more of an image of perfection, with less acknowledgment of their own shortcomings.
defixiones@reddit
That's a perfectly fine subjective opinion. Perhaps the subject of "best country in the world" never came up.
void-nomad-90@reddit
Maybe you think your country is the best.. I don’t
HarryNohara@reddit
Yeah, Americans don’t have that trait.. /s
Americans in Europe, you can always pick them out by their main character syndrome. Not everyone ofcourse, but for some reason lots of American tourists need to talk extremely loud and need everyone to know they are American. 'WE DON’T SPEAK YOUR LANGUAGE OR ARE NOT LOCAL, ADJUST TO THAT' is what they are really saying.
Nothing wrong with being proud of your country, but if we’re gonna talk about arrogance and a sense of superiority, Americans do top that chart.
More-Cartoonist-3887@reddit
I am not from the US.
HarryNohara@reddit
Not really relevant..?
More-Cartoonist-3887@reddit
For me, this is relevant because I’ve lived in both the United States and Europe, and in my experience, Europeans can come across as more arrogant than Americans. I felt more welcomed in the U.S. than in Europe.
It’s completely fair if American English bothers you, but in many European countries you can be excluded if you don’t speak the local language. And, for better or worse, English is still the most widely used language globally, and it’s often how people communicate until they learn the local language.
HarryNohara@reddit
Wait, so you are actually stating Europeans have to change to English when an American or non-Dutch speaker is present, because English is the 'universal' language? How about no. This is exactly the main character syndrome I’m talking about. One on one, absolutely, I will speak in English. But not for your convenience to be able to eavesdrop on every conversation. You are in a foreign country, you gotta accept you have to adjust, not the other way around. Imagine going to a Dutch university and forced to be talking English every second on campus because Americans or other non-Dutch speakers. Oh hell no.
That said, not really my point. If you’re going to generalize, you have to see a certain pattern and attitude of American expats. Often loud, often arrogant, often a sense of superiority.
Squirrel_McNutz@reddit
Brother I’m duo national US/The Netherlands - I speak and know both cultures very well. I absolutely think the average is Dutch person is more arrogant and with a sense of superiority than the average American. For me it’s not even close. And the Dutch will be extremely direct about it, giving you their arrogant opinions completely unsolicited.
Whereas in the US people will be warm and friendly to you, showing interest in your country and overall welcoming you.
Not saying the US is perfect, it definitely isn’t. But Dutch people can be remarkably hypocritical when it comes to criticising Americans.
More-Cartoonist-3887@reddit
I think what you may not have understood is that I’m not American, and English is not my first language. Still, I’m more than willing to speak English with people who don’t speak my language until they feel comfortable. In my country, this isn’t really an issue.
What I experienced in parts of Europe felt different. There seems to be an expectation that if you visit, you must speak the local language, and that can come across as a sense of superiority. And considering how many countries and languages there are in Europe, that’s not always realistic for visitors or newcomers.
I truly appreciate that there are many kind and welcoming people there, and I’m sure others have had great experiences. This was just mine, and it shaped how I feel. In fact, your perspective kind of reinforces what I experienced.
That said, I understand people have different backgrounds and preferences. I know people who love Europe and feel very connected to the culture, and that’s great. It’s just not my case. I’m not trying to change your point of view, and I’d appreciate the same in return. Every experience is unique, and it’s a good thing we connect with different places. That’s what makes the world diverse.
ZMCoast@reddit
No one is saying Americans do not exhibit that. Plenty are over the top with it, but at least they can brag.
hudibrastic@reddit
Oh yes, especially northern Europeans
Squirrel_McNutz@reddit
100% yes, unfortunately. It drives me crazy at times.
ZMCoast@reddit
You are not wrong, Spaniards think they are the absolute best at everything, but really the only reason why Spain is even standing is that it is in Europe and relies a lot on the EU. Been in other European countries too, and it is a similar weird experience. They just don't say it out loud and are not over the top with it, but it is there.
Maxxibonn@reddit
I absolutely agree, and I live in Spain. Catalans are the worst at exhibiting that pride. Most Spanish and Catalans don’t even travel abroad, they think their country is the best and they don’t have to go anywhere else, and think their country same about their language, culture, food etc. How stupid.
More-Cartoonist-3887@reddit
I lived in Barcelona, and although the city itself is wonderful, I had a difficult experience socially. At work, people often wouldn’t even respond when I said hello, and there were times when they had gatherings among themselves and I felt left out. Based on that experience, I don’t see myself going back.
Maxxibonn@reddit
I absolutely agree and I live in Spain. Catalans are the worst at exhibiting that pride. Most Spanish and Catalan don’t even travel abroad.
ff3ale@reddit
That's hilarious coming from an US perspective
OldWhereas7439@reddit
Totally worth moving if you have a good job and can life in a cool area. Let me know if you have questions.
I’ve lived in Norway and the USA - feel like I can give a balanced take.
No-Village3075@reddit
I lived in Europe for my husbands job for 5 years. We moved back to the US 9 years ago and I’m literally in therapy crying to my therapist about how I don’t get to live in Europe anymore. It’s a different experience for everyone and there are so many different reasons you might be thinking of moving back. But if I could do it all over again, I wouldn’t have come back here.
Acceptable-Cup3702@reddit
Where you lived ?
No-Village3075@reddit
Prague and Amsterdam
Squirrel_McNutz@reddit
Not the worst places!
lluluna@reddit
Eh not really, at least not for me.
I was in the US for university and living in Southern Europe now because life leads me here. It's been many years but I'm still thinking about moving back someday.
Europe is great for vacations but living here makes me miss something that I can't even describe. I'm not even American by the way.
rainzephyr@reddit
I personally would never move to Europe, only take vacations there because I will always be treated like an outsider or foreigner no matter what. I like how I am more accepted as American in the USA and I like the warmth of people.
Squirrel_McNutz@reddit
The warmth of the people is great.
The Dutch love to say Americans are friendly but fake, I think thats bs. Americans just like to be warm and friendly, it’s just the culture. It’s like calling Brazilians or Dominicans fake for their friendliness… like no they’re just warm cultures. Americans love a little small chat.
lluluna@reddit
I agree with you. The move is also not a permanent one but life brought me here for now.
colorfort@reddit
Right now is a bad time for this identity but the US is at its best when it has a wide open anything is possible momentum. Its very much a 2 step forward one step back kind of society. Right now we are frozen because of the executive branch and its chaotic policies.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
If you think the US is frozen, you clearly haven't seen how Europe is sliding into blatant exclusionary policies like Denmark's "ghetto laws" or Italy's crackdowns on migrant rights. Hungary and Poland have spent years dismantling asylum protections while pushing "national purity" rhetoric, and even Germany has recently ramped up aggressive deportation laws and border controls that target the very people they once claimed to welcome. While the US and Australia have the "anything is possible" momentum, Europe is busy passing laws to ensure outsiders stay on the fringe, proving they still think anyone from the rest of the world is beneath them.
Spiritual_Driver_593@reddit
This is so true: lately European countries have become less and less friendly with migrants. Hostile in some cases.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
Even if you aren't from Europe, you’re still using their debunked talking points to provide cover for a continent that is currently sliding into deep xenophobia. It’s a massive double standard to lecture the Anglosphere when European countries only consider someone "integrated" if they fit a specific ethnic mold, while everyone else—including those from the Anglosphere—is branded as a perpetual immigrant. This "civilized Europe" myth ignores the fact that their societies are becoming increasingly hostile fortresses that gatekeep "European-ness" while still enjoying the global wealth their ancestors extracted.
EchoAris@reddit
Same! I lived in California from 2012-2019. Went home to Germany for a while for various reasons. Also had felt a bit disillusioned by the US and I was just 28 so I didn’t really know what I wanted. Been back in Germany for 8 years now and not a day goes by that I don’t think about moving back to the US.
Spiritual_Driver_593@reddit
Well to be honest comparing Germany with the US is like comparing a sigmoidoscopy to a colonoscopy... both kind of suck. There are very beautiful places in Europe, and Germany is nice for visiting... but living there? Not sure...
MarxVox@reddit
How did you stay for so long in US as a German?
EchoAris@reddit
Went to college and got married. Still married today 😅
Tw1tch-Invictus@reddit
Visit Fredericksburg, TX if you ever come back on by, it’s a lovely little peaceful town that people like to stay in for a weekend just to chill and disconnect from regular life. They have amazing Christmas displays and all kinds of cool stores down their Main Street. It was founded by German immigrant communities, they have a strong influence on central Texas, as well as the Czechs (kolaches and klobasneks are a staple of Texas breakfast culture lol).
ugh__ok@reddit
Can you say more? Very curious
lluluna@reddit
About why I miss the US? My sentiments are hard to describe honestly but, I guess it's this freedom/convenience of having access to practically everything under the sun.
Then there are the real-world reasons like starting a company in the US vs. in Europe.
ugh__ok@reddit
Ah I see, thx
lluluna@reddit
About why I miss the US? There are many reasons but one of the easiest/the fastest way to understand this sentiment is trying to start a company in Europe vs. in the US.
Or trying to manage an investment portfolio in the US vs in Europe.
cacamalaca@reddit
That something is called treating people with warmth, a foreign concept on the European continent.
Pahblows@reddit
Born in the US, moved to the Netherlands for a couple of years. Missed home so went back to the US, realized what a huge mistake I made and moved back to the Netherlands lol
The grass isn’t greener on the other side, the grass is green where you water and tend to it. Don’t know you or your situation but for me personally, I don’t think you could pay me to go back again.
Personal-Carob-1073@reddit
I do this, back and forth, but NYC is better.
Going back. Done with my home country after this box 3 "how dare you escape the middle class" shit.
atimidtempest@reddit
Where in the US are you from? I would love to hear more about this... I am from the US, currently in the Netherlands, thinking about moving back 😅
notrightnow147@reddit
Same… also currently in NL and planning a move back to US lol
Far_Grass_785@reddit
Did you just have to get another visa or had you become a dual citizen or somehow preserved your PR?
Pahblows@reddit
I was born a dual citizen but let my passport lapse long enough to lose it in adulthood. Had to jump through some hoops for the IND for a year/year and a half but thankfully got it back
ericblair21@reddit
Some people may be happier in certain cultures than others, though; I think that tracks. However, if a person is anxious and unhappy, moving to another country is just about guaranteed to make their stress and unhappiness worse for a significant period of time, and moving (or saying they're moving) for political reasons almost always fails. And, of course, you can't move away from your own head.
ready_gi@reddit
i agree.. it's so nuanced and individual that there is no "right way" to do it. Also, it is how you interpret the experience, not even about the experience itself.
for example i moved back to Canada and really dislike how the western culture is evolving. However i've been able to gain perspective over my life and the stronger economy is helping me to build my creative business that im planning to eventually move back to my home country.
accepting the natural progress of my life and being ok with things not being "as i want them" but they just are, helps a lot too. just letting go of any expectations is freeing.
xBram@reddit
LongRodVaughnDong@reddit
Don’t worry, no one will pay you for such a ridiculous thing
hudibrastic@reddit
Not for me, missed an opportunity to move to the US 13 years ago, with visa and everything on my hands
Now, I'm arranging things to move next year
Europe values don't align with mine, western Europe is getting poorer at such a high velocity, 17 years ago euro zone had roughly the same GDP as the US, now it is half
A culture that values getting benefits and safety over innovation and productivity is only good if you don't aim for higher goals, and over time it attracts the worst mindset, until they run out of money
coalescence2071@reddit
That works until you get a serious illness or someone from your family does. Then your employer pushes you into short term disability at a 40% reduced pay, managed by a third party and cuts you and your family off your health insurance after two weeks. The bills are coming in for tens of thousands of dollars and your income is down to half. You cannot work because you are undergoing treatments for months. Each year 365,000 bankruptcies filed due to medical issues. Over a 100 million Americans have unpaid medical bills…. So yeah if you don’t plan on being sick or getting into an accident you should be ok in the US.
hudibrastic@reddit
There are several ways to protect yourself against this kind of situation without having to give 1/3 of your paycheck on the hopes that the government will take care of it
You should have, and most qualified professions will provide you with life insurance, which can also be bought privately, you can fly to cheaper countries for treatment
As someone already said, it doesn't make sense to plan your life around an eventual tragedy, you give up a huge reward in exchange for something that you probably will never need, and even if you need those benefits in most countries are not as good as Americans think they are, not even close, and they are always on risk of government changes
cryingingerman@reddit
Most Germans think I'm crazy when I say this. I know someone who lives in Germany and is insured against volcano eruptions. Found out that there are many people who have this kind of insurance. People can be extremely neurotic about the "dangers" to their life while living in one of the safest countries in the world. And everyone is forced into a system where paying for volcano protection is considered normal. German insurance culture is huge and most of it is a scam because these things we're insured against will never happen.
Uncle_Richard98@reddit
I’m sorry but I laughed hard right now. These people are insane lol
Uncle_Richard98@reddit
For those who were born Europeans this is a non issue. They can simply go back and use the “universal healthcare” of their original country.
Also high professionals in the US who work in tech, finance, medicine and engineer have top tier healthcare insurance which they can use paid by the company. If not they can literally fly to Thailand or Mexico or an Eastern European country and get the same treatment for half the price or less and with the money you get in the US this is peanuts for them.
Dismal_Charity682@reddit
They have that insurance through their employers. What happens when they get laid off?
loopreem@reddit
Again, as mentioned, they return to their home country and get free, unlimited, high quality healthcare until they no longer need it.
MiscBrahBert@reddit
I have cancer in the US. I'm paying my $2000 yearly out-of-pocket max at one of the top cancer centers in the world.
ugh__ok@reddit
They are probably downvoting because so so many other people do not share this experience
MiscBrahBert@reddit
92% of Americans have health insurance, and 80% of those have an OOP max below $6000 (source). So no, it's actually the minority who aren't likewise financially capped. My $2000 OOP max is very generous, I'll admit (but, my premiums are higher than most, I pay about $600/month out of my salary, so it comes out in the wash).
ugh__ok@reddit
In the US we are mandated to purchase health insurance so having a high rate of coverage may be, but that doesn’t paint a complete picture, as many people can’t afford $600 per month nor $2000 per year deductible let alone a $6000 deductible but are forced to purchase it anyway (from for-profit corporations). Not to mention limited coverage even when insured and denials of coverage for all kinds of things. I’m glad you have the means to get great treatment, you are very lucky. A lot of people do not share that experience.
LowMasterpiece2196@reddit
while the medical system in the US is undoubtedly one of the worst, you shouldn’t plan your whole life around this one “if” situation imo. it always comes down to a whole list of pros and cons, and as an european you would still have the benefit of moving back to europe in the event of it happening
defixiones@reddit
The EU isn't getting poorer, it has grown consistently since the crash.
The US on the other hand has doubled in economic size.
Unfortunately you missed that boom and are probably just arriving in time for the next part of the economic cycle.
hudibrastic@reddit
From 2008-2014 euro zone GDP declined 0.4% per year, while from 2014-2024 the euro zone GDP went from 14.2t to 15t… barely covers the inflation
Meanwhile the US went from 14.8 to 26, China went from 10 to 18
Europe is in the past
defixiones@reddit
So despite your cherry-picking, the Eurozone still grew above inflation between 2008 and 2024. This is despite a massive-US led crash that's about to come around again - but despite this you think the US model is the future.
LowMasterpiece2196@reddit
well said. as someone living in the netherlands, it frustrates me how many people are content with achieving the “bare minimum”, whether it’s at work or in their daily life. good for those who value certainty over getting paid 3x less than a counterpart in the US.
Dismal_Charity682@reddit
Some people want to enjoy their life instead of salving away for corporations who couldn’t care less about them.
LowMasterpiece2196@reddit
you do realize that people in the netherlands still work just as much if not even more hours for 3 times less pay right lol. so much for enjoying life, while barely being able to afford rent. and idk what corporations have anything to do with this
hudibrastic@reddit
As a friend of mine who lives in the US say: Europeans are the ones who love work, I'm on my way to retire at 45, while Europeans will be working until 67 and will be praying for the public pension scheme to still work until then
gezellig13@reddit
There s also private pension but anyway why so much care? Really dont understand how it affects people from a different continent how many days europeans work or what age they retire... Everyone is looking at life differently.
gezellig13@reddit
You probably dont know how many people work 4 days. And anyway why do you care so much if some people prefer to enjoy life outside work, or prefer to work less, or less hours, or less salary. I dont care if others prefer to work themselves to death. Everyone is making their own decisions and other people should mind their own business and decisions.
gezellig13@reddit
Not sure if its the bare mininum but more the life-work balance.I couldnt do it with the holidays there or the sickness days even though I would make 3 time more money. I am happy like this. But then again I never had this dream of being rich, as long as I can afford a normal life, that's enough for me.
ceilingLamp666@reddit
Thats what you say now. Just see when you cant retire before 71, health care is being cut significantly and other public services deteriorate. Because thats whats about to happen. All while you are being taxed over 65% (with vat, income, capital taxes etc) so you cant "deal with it yourself" any more.
We are not talking about you cant buy your third TV in the house.
gezellig13@reddit
Well I dont have a TV in every room, just one and barely use that one. Actually I can retire before 71 which is exactly what I will do. People are different, situations are different, plans are different. "Deal with yourself more" lol. Sorry for wanting time for myself and dont consider working myself to death my purpose in life.
ceilingLamp666@reddit
You are completely going past my point and i feel being ignorant on purpose. Good you can retire early. I cant, even if I want to work it myself (since taxes). Government finances are very predictable and no way what is being promised today is realistic. Thats the point.
gezellig13@reddit
The point is that you can't understand how different people are and how they want different things from life. You want x3 salary, I dont. You want to work 7/7, I dont. I am happy about my decisions and life. You should be too. I already mentioned that for the young generations its gonna be different. I dont see in future, I can only guess.
ceilingLamp666@reddit
No. No where i say that. Absolutely nonsense.
LowMasterpiece2196@reddit
also fair, it really depends on the person. for me the W/L balance is definitely a bit extreme on the life side here, it’s too expensive of a country to be able to afford that. home ownership is becoming increasingly impossible for newer generations, a lot of my friends even struggle to pay rent and then having the time to “enjoy life” really becomes questionable to me
gezellig13@reddit
I am also in nederlands and I do agree with what you say about the newer generations, they have it much harder with the rent and house crises than us, the not so young ones. Although I have to say the rent /house problem i see it in more countries not only here.
LowMasterpiece2196@reddit
oh most definitely! i’m pretty sure countries like portugal and spain have it even worse right now. which is why i genuinely believe the US might be a better place to build wealth and get properly rewarded for being a hard-working, aspiring young person
gezellig13@reddit
That's possible. While I feel sorry for the younger generation, I must admit that i am happy I am not in my 20 right now. And it's not only the house /rent but in general. The world is quite a "strange" place in this moment.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
The Netherlands is the perfect example of that "tall poppy syndrome" where they try to cut you down for wanting more than a mediocre life and a bicycle. You are spot on to get out, because while the Dutch are busy being content with 3x less pay, the rest of us in Australia and the US are actually building wealth and enjoying a life that isn't capped by some soul-crushing European ceiling.
Maxxibonn@reddit
It seems like you’ve described Spain, Portugal or Italy.
mokerjootje@reddit
This is such a negative take. I know plenty of people who are ambitious and successful. No one is criticizing them. It's just that people in general value their time much more than money or a career, and I ambut you are free to work your ass off and make a good living. No one is stopping you from starting a business.
LowMasterpiece2196@reddit
100% lol. the benefits are so over-romanticized while the downsides are treated as just “it is what it is”
ceilingLamp666@reddit
Well Australia isn't doing better to be honest.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
It is refreshing to see someone else who hasn't been blinded by the European myth of stability, especially since the Eurozone's measly growth is being left in the dust by the US, Australia, and booming Asian economies like India. Trading a stagnant culture of handouts for the dynamic opportunities in the Anglosphere is the best move you can make to ensure your ambition actually translates into real wealth rather than just funding a declining museum.
ceilingLamp666@reddit
Couldn't agree more. Not saying usa is a dream but Europe's lifestyle isn't sustainable either. I experience it first hand im holding myself back since fuck why should I. Theres little upside of overachieving.
Cold_Acadia_847@reddit
Never
Zio_Bostik@reddit
I’m Italian,guys, and I can assure you I’d do anything to come and live in the US. The biggest problem is how hard it is to get into your country; give me some tips 😭
Purple-Buyer4045@reddit
I’m American gal and would love to come and live in Italy 😂
Zio_Bostik@reddit
No sis, don’t do that 😂
proletariel@reddit
Europe is not perfect, far from it, and I've only experienced adulthood in Europe, not the US, but America is quickly going to hell in a handbasket in a way that most of Europe isn't. America is not a safe or prosperous place for most right now, and will only continue to degrade socio-economically over the next 3+ years. I miss the people there, some of the friendliest, and I miss how gorgeous the land is, but if you have a stable life in Europe you are far more privileged than you realize. Many would kill to have that opportunity. You should make the most of it.
HunnyBunny617@reddit
Stay there. The U.S. is a flaming shit show nowadays.
saintmsent@reddit
For me it didn’t so I moved. Europeans and some Americans alike love to sweep any issues with the EU under the rug and pretend that it’s some kind of utopia and anyone would be dumb to move to the US
Yes, US has its problems, but EU does too, and which problems you will feel and how much depends on who you are as a person and what you do for work mostly
Main thing is knowing what you are pursuing and/or running away from. For me the whole stable Europe thing was restrictive, I knew I would live a good lifestyle but nothing extraordinary and it wouldn’t be possible to accomplish anything exceptional in my career which matters to me
Dizzy-Woodpecker7879@reddit
For me it went away getting older and losingv respect in their core values.
AlternativeSilver870@reddit
I can’t wait to move to the US. Still the greatest place for opportunities
l3m0np1e132@reddit
I am an American, do you have any questions about adjusting to US life?
domerich86@reddit
One vacation there fixed it for me. It’s like Italy. It’s nice to vacation there. It’s not nice to live there
Maxxibonn@reddit
People say that about any country.
lluluna@reddit
Obviously not, there are countries that are great to live there but not so vacation. Like Singapore.
Then there are countries that are not so good for both.
domerich86@reddit
One vacation there fixed it for me. People say that about Italy specifically 🤣
Realistic-Depth-5155@reddit
It really depends on how much you make. If you are squarely middle class or lower clsss stay in the EU, there are better safe guards. If you’re upper class the US might be a bit better as you can insulate yourself from most of the strife and neglect that happens in America.
My household is technically in the top 5% of income earners (not to be confused with the top 5% in terms of overall wealth) and we live comfortably in Texas. (And that’s with saving roughly 30% of our income for retirement, trying to retire at 55 to get out of here)
lluluna@reddit
This. Someone finally nailed the main reason of why some feel better in one but not the other.
Spiritual_Driver_593@reddit
Yes: money. If you are dirty rich, the US is paradise. If you are poor... the US is hell on earth
Tw1tch-Invictus@reddit
Same. Also in Texas, also top 5% household income (oil and gas is very lucrative down here) and also planning to try to get the fuck out at some point lmao. Texas isn’t terrible, but holy fuck do I hate the weather and lack of natural beauty. But there are plenty of amenities and we live very comfortably while also socking away plenty for retirement. We're far ahead of the median amount saved for our age group so I can’t really complain.
colorfort@reddit
Watch out for healthcare, we are getting nailed to the wall by the annual costs.
Mysterious-Look-977@reddit
it all depends on how you will live in a new country and ofc how much are u making
Embarrassed-Ant-1416@reddit
Take a long vacation before you make any decisions!
Acceptable_Usual1646@reddit
They did a study on expats and after 10 years away, you are apparently already unable to settle again in your home country
MiscBrahBert@reddit
unable how? not like your passport goes away (unless you renounce)
Acceptable_Usual1646@reddit
Because you go back to a country that has changed and it is difficult to adapt.
Uncle_Richard98@reddit
Yes I have this urge and I’m already making moves to move in 2028-2030 once this president leaves the administration. I live in north of Europe (originally from south of Europe) and I just feel so stuck here, like there’s no social mobility or high achievers or high ambition, everyone is just happy and content with the bare minimum and I have other goals in my life.
Also north of Europe has a horrible weather and shitty good while southern Europe has good weather and good food but salaries are low as shit and there’s literally no good career opportunities or options, so that’s why I’m moving to California who has the best of both worlds.
Move or while you’re young and you don’t have attachments here (kids, houses to pay etc).
colbertt@reddit
The devil does approach you with red horns, but as being able to grant you everything you have ever wanted.
Uncle_Richard98@reddit
I can’t keep living in north of Europe with no sun for half of the year and bad weather I simply can’t, it literally takes my will to live you don’t understand. But I can’t keep living in southern Europe because salaries are so dog shit low and there’s no industry, I was in constant stress and having daily panic attacks and stressing about my financials almost everyday.
I know the US is not rainbow and shiny and has downsides too. I work for an American company, I go to the US on a regular basis for business trips and have seen in first hand how my American friends / colleagues live. I’m pretty aware of the “downsides”. But even with the cons I’m pretty okay with it because the US (in this case California) has two of the things that I value more at the moment: good weather / food and good money / salaries.
I’m pretty okay with whatever I have to sacrifice if I can remove the two slices of anxiety that make my life in Europe miserable.
-Copenhagen@reddit
Northern Europe is second to none when it comes to social mobility.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/social-mobility-by-country
Uncle_Richard98@reddit
These rankings are bullshit as I can attest for living in north of Europe for years. I know so many people who also moved here and are so miserable.
Life is not about bs metrics that some organisation decided to pull out. California in the US can give much more quality of life for certain people
Acceptable-Peace-69@reddit
Social mobility in Europe if you’re poor is better. Education, healthcare and social services are far more egalitarian in most countries though it varies.
I’d say it’s easier to make it from lower/working to middle class in Europe, while in the USA it’s easier to make it from middle to upper class.
Being poor in the US is hard when one illness can set you back for years and access to “the right schools” can determine your future academic success.
colbertt@reddit
Who would have known that a social mobility metric tells you something about social mobility.
defixiones@reddit
California probably isn't the land of opportunity for the innumerate.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
Spot on mate, those charts are just a way for Europeans to feel superior while ignoring the reality that they have flattened the top of the mountain so nobody can actually build real wealth. Life in California or Australia is about the freedom to climb as high as your talent takes you, rather than being stuck in a "stable" loop where your ambition is taxed into oblivion and your drive is ridiculed by locals.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
Good on you for backing yourself and making the move because you have absolutely nailed the problem with the European mindset. It is refreshing to hear from someone who actually has some fire in their belly instead of just settling for that soul-crushing mediocrity that the North calls stability. You are spot on about being penalized for ambition; in Europe they love to tall-poppy anyone who wants more than the bare minimum and act like you are the problem for having goals. California is going to be a massive breath of fresh air for you because it actually celebrates high achievers and rewards that drive with real social mobility and world-class opportunities. Moving while you are young is the smartest play you can make because why waste your best years in a place that ridicules your hustle when you could be in the US or Australia where we actually respect the grind and give you a fair go to build something massive. Go for it and don't look back!
KulshanStudios@reddit
Left the US last year after many 1+ month visits to northern and eastern europe in the past, and currently living in eastern europe, and probably gonna move to northern europe in the semi-near future
I don't miss home
I miss one food item from back home I can't readily get where I am, and sometimes I have nostalgic flashbacks to certain mountain trails from my old home area in washington state
But I think I can make the one dish I can't find in restaurants here, and literally as soon as the snowline recedes end of May, I'm hitting the mountains north of me hard and climbing as much as possible, so I won't dwell on old hikes too much
I had a decent time back home
But I'm thriving over here in Europe, and things are similar enough between home and here I don't really feel that much of a difference
BatPlack@reddit
Got blue balls over here about this one food item.
What is it?
KulshanStudios@reddit
Pho
Snowfall1779@reddit
I lived abroad for 7 years but I missed the US so much. I moved back 2 years ago and never looked back. I know things suck here but it’s home. I have so much respect for immigrants because being somewhere that doesn’t feel like home is so hard.
MiscBrahBert@reddit
Please, tell more
Snowfall1779@reddit
What would you like to know?
MiscBrahBert@reddit
What country did you expat to? What things did you miss? When you returned, did you find you what you were looking for?
Snowfall1779@reddit
MiscBrahBert@reddit
Thank you.
Vanifest0@reddit
Just plan an extended visit to the town or neighborhoods you like but can afford. Get an Airbnb and live like local. The "new" and novelty will wear off soon. You'll realize soon enough how self-absorbed and uneducated the average American is.
Smart-Simple9938@reddit
Why?
SoManyQuestions5200@reddit
I would not advice living in the US until someone leaves office
Lumidark@reddit
I think it largely depends on your personality and what you want in life. I was born in the US but have European parents and I ended up moving out of the US at 18. Have been back there to visit and on business and you couldn't pay me to go back to live there again. There were things I missed the first 5 years but the country started to decline IMO and every time I visited all I could do was think that I was so glad I left. It's been 23 years since I left and I cannot see myself ever going back.
The US is great if your main focus is money and career progression but even then it depends on what profession you are in. For me the trade off in my stress levels and overall QOL just wasn't worth it. The very outgoing materialistic culture by comparison to where I was living in Europe just wasn't for me as well. My husband who is European also never wanted to live over there and he used to travel there for business more than I did. It all depends on your own preferences and circumstances.
IndividualBear3572@reddit
Can't answer this question for you. You will have to spend time in US for 90 days, but instead of traveling, you will secretly "live" there as an experiment. Then you will know.
thin_wild_duke@reddit
Just before I emigrated to Canada (from the UK) I ended up sitting next to ex-pats on flights, having interesting conversations about what they missed: winding roads, driving 30 minutes and things looking different, regional accents, family, humour and the general sense of history.
I went into this with my eyes open.
I also spoke to people who had given up and gone back to the UK, only to realize that what they missed had either changed or never really existed to begin with, and were talking about whether or not to move to Canada a second time.
I miss the aspects listed above, but something in me has changed over the years. I have gained more than I've lost.
lewskuntz@reddit
If you're an ambitious, self reliant, professional, the US is the place to be.
flushbunking@reddit
I constantly romanticize about how i had it in about 2013-2016. But, all weird since.
MiscBrahBert@reddit
for real
PuzzledMind_7@reddit
Well I can relate to you. For me it was Canada. I dont think il ever get over this feeling. Somehow I need to find a way to make peace with it.
MiscBrahBert@reddit
You moved to Canada from the US? or Canada to Europe?
Ok-Championship-918@reddit
This made me depressed more
breezypuffnut@reddit
You don’t want to come to the U.S. as it is a capitalist hellhole. There’s no governmental oversight. Everything we eat and use are toxic. I’ve a long list of brands and products that I shouldn’t use anymore. The healthcare is. Nightmare. Almost everyone is a small step away from being homeless be it the medical bill from a sickness or losing one’s job in this horrible market. People are looking for ways to get out of this nightmare of a country. The saddest part is the YS citizens did all this to themselves staring with Reagan privatizing away many government functions.
SweetAlyssumm@reddit
You are welcome to your opinions but they are not based on fact. There are about 771,000 homeless in the US out of a population of 349 million. Homelessness is a disgrace in a rich country but it's not true that "almost everyone is a small step away from being homeless." That's absurd.
At least half of homeless are drug addicts or alcoholics. It's disgraceful that we don't have better treatment but most people are not going to become addicts.
Safe-Bookkeeper4121@reddit
Medical debt is one of the leading causes of homelessness in US. There is a whole industry that thrives on preying on people with medical debt.
breezypuffnut@reddit
If you believe that half of homelessness is due to drug and alcoholic addictions, then your understanding is grossly naive.
Diamond_Specialist@reddit
This is total BS.
Pamamore@reddit
I’ll swap you
Important_Coach9717@reddit
Dude you must be out of your mind or living under a rock if you would willingly live Europe for the US
lmea14@reddit
Probably not. If you have an inkling to do it, do it! At least for a while.
MORFIC1@reddit
Personally I would STAY far away from the states until trump is gone! He certainly has done NO GOOD for the global economy as well as stateside where people are suffering big time, due to him!
OkPickle738@reddit
As someone who has no knowledge of what this sub is about, nor phycology, here's my thoughts: Maybe homesick or something idk?
MadeThisUpToComment@reddit
Maybe, maybe not. Depends on why you have those feelings, where you have lived and what you are (or think you are) missing out on.
You won't get many good answers without sharing more details.
You've basically said "isn't ordered a steak, but now I think i should have ordered fish of the day, will i regret my decision? Steak lovers will yell you it's all good. Pescatarians will tell you that you've made the biggest mistake of your life
No_Performance8733@reddit
No No No
PerpetualTraveler59@reddit
I have constant thoughts about moving a lot of places and I’m resolved to the idea that I’m a nomad. Now we live in a small travel trailer. Wish it weren’t so costly to put it on a boat and take it overseas!!
FinestTreesInDa7Seas@reddit
Honestly, I think the reason most Americans leave the EU is due to personal economics.
I think people who move overseas are disproportionately people who grew up in smaller cities in the US, and they're accustomed to the economics of that.
Naturally, the tendency is to move up in the world, so when you move abroad you pick somewhere like London, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, etc. Then you suddenly face the sticker-shock of how expensive a city like that is.
The opportunities in smaller/cheaper cities in the EU seem impossible to find because you didn't grow up there, so you're not familiar with them.
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
It is a massive cop-out to blame "personal economics" when the real issue is the systemic ceiling Europe places on anyone with actual drive. Comparing a city like Berlin to NYC is a joke because in the Anglosphere you are actually rewarded for the grind, whereas in Europe you get hit with a "success tax" the moment you start to pull ahead. In Australia or the US, an immigrant can land a role in a hub like Sydney or San Francisco and actually see their net worth skyrocket through high wages and equity, while in Europe you are just a number in a stagnant system that expects you to be grateful for a "stable" pittance while they ignore the trillions in colonial wealth they still haven't accounted for.
Impressive_Tea_8767@reddit
The U.S. currently needs more tech workers as our tech industry continues to boom. Silicon Valley is constantly bringing in foreigners since most Americans don’t study tech (it’s easier and more advantageous for them to go to school for business and become the person hiring the foreigners).
If you can join that sector right now, we have a really robust H-1b visa and are trying to shift away from Indian immigrants since India now has the strongest data centers and infrastructure there so it’s so much easier to outsource to India without paying to sponsor and bring Indians here (so just a fair warning if you’re Indian and in tech right now the logistics/costs to sponsor bs our piece don’t work in your favor but honestly still try, worst they can do is say not right now).
Most other sectors are pretty full right now but if you can get into entrepreneurship the U.S. is the best place for someone ambitious and driven who wants to join the world of entrepreneurship. If you know a second language fluently, you can work for the government training military members at the defense language institutes. Sector needs change frequently, so just keep up to date with the critical skills list.
You might be able to nanny/au pair in a larger city. It’s not as common here so it might be more limited but again - always worth looking into.
Don’t let the news scare you - all our media is privately owned and therefore is incentivized to sensationalize headlines to garner views and subscriptions. This country really isn’t run by Congress or the president, it’s run by the CEOs. Politicians are mostly puppets. In Trump’s mind he’s a dictator, in practicality he’s an old man with dementia who keeps getting shot down by the Supreme Court and spends more time on social media than he does actually doing any political work.
We like immigrants. This country is insanely diverse and continuing to blur demographics as more and more people come here. Surprisingly we are one of the easiest countries in the world to immigrate to, despite how much Americans who have never even traveled outside of the country swear our border is the Berlin Wall and no one is allowed in. Most Americans just obviously don’t like illegal immigrants who thwart the system.
Whatever you decide, know that we want you here if you want to be here, just don’t be a dick and complain because a different country does things differently, keep an open mind and Americans will love you. But please don’t bring any sexist, racist, or homophobic mindset with you. We’ve already worked hard over the past 60 years to make so much progress against that. Looking at the Mexicans who keep bringing anti-Black and hyper-misogynistic ideologies here
coalescence2071@reddit
Each year 365,000 bankruptcies filed in the US due to medical issues. Over a 100 million Americans have unpaid medical bills, so I would definitely keep the EU healthcare ID number active in case you needed it while experiencing the American Dream (which is basically owning a house).
Material-Wallaby-587@reddit
That is a typical European response, hyper-focusing on stats to ignore the fact that your "free" healthcare is funded by the centuries of colonial theft you still refuse to pay reparations for, while places like Australia actually manage to provide top-tier care without treating every outsider like they are intellectually inferior.
SwissMiss2022@reddit
Feeling didn't go away for our family. We are moving back in June
Gingerbutt81@reddit
The feeling goes away once you step foot on US soil
isUKexactlyTsameasUS@reddit
35 reasons for you to study, that could make that feeling go away...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEzoW6xUhiM
Tardislass@reddit
Grass is always greener.
MaximumOutside8614@reddit
Think about trump it should go away within a split second
LowMasterpiece2196@reddit
doesn’t change the fact that there are still many great places with even greater people in the US
askialee@reddit
If you're rich you can move here otherwise nope. Try mexico. AI is taking a lot of jobs.
Normal_Money_9629@reddit
I'd say Canada is a better alternative since it's one of the most US adjacent culturally. US is far too politically unstable. Even after Trump's presidency. I'd still be worried about going on the mainland. I'd say any US state of the mainland is more appealing. Less chaotic.
BigWater7673@reddit
Grass isn't always greener. Why do you have such a strong urge to move to the US?
Main-Estate-125@reddit
I never understand this cliche used in expat forums. By this argument no one should leave their home country lol.
BigWater7673@reddit
Well the cliche is appropriate here because OP has this urge to move without a clearly define motive or at least he hasn't shared it. There are pros and cons for every decision. When you make a drastic change like moving to another country you will run across a lot of cons and what usually calms people is knowing they're closer to their goal and there are a number of pros that align with their goals.
curlyisnumbertwo@reddit
Rather live in Singapore.
CPD1960@reddit
Is it moving to the US or moving BACK to the US?
dunzdeck@reddit
I have citizenship and could move back at any time, I've felt the urge a few times, but to be honest less and less so
Ahme7ibrahim@reddit (OP)
Why?
Ok_Butterscotch54@reddit
Sure it goes away: when you grow up.😉
orbital@reddit
Better to regret something you did in this case
notthegoatseguy@reddit
If you've planted roots, moving to another EU country may be seen as a burden, let alone moving to a country that's across an ocean.
If you're young, have a viable immigration path and nothing tying you down, why not take the leap and go? That's more than most people ever do, and you can always go back if it doesn't work out
IntelligentOven5612@reddit
It sounds like you have an American Dream. Go to the U.S. and make America great again.
Telecom_VoIP_Fan@reddit
If you can try it out for 6 months of so without cutting your Europe routes, that would be the most sensible way to see if your dream of life across the Atlantic meets your expectations.
Embarrassed_Sea4297@reddit
I'm the opposite, i left the US for Europe over 30 years ago and never have a feeling of wanting to go back. I'm done with the US.