What do you think of these protests?
Posted by FantasticQuartet@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 597 comments
Posted by FantasticQuartet@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 597 comments
Synthesia92@reddit
People are free to express their opinions. They are exercising their rights.
TheoKondak@reddit
A genocide and a historical event is not a matter of opinion. If fish soup is tasty or not is a matter of opinion
AcanthocephalaSea410@reddit
If we speak in terms of data, in the Balkans, apart from Greece and Bulgaria, nobody else accepts it.
When we ask who in the Balkans believes that Armenia committed genocide against Azerbaijani Turks and that Armenia is a genocidal country, the answer is Türkiye, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Slovenia.
According to the United Nations, Armenia is a genocidal country. The United Nations or the European Court of Human Rights does not consider Türkiye a genocidal country. According to the European Court of Human Rights, denying the Armenian genocide is considered freedom of thought.
We won the case brought against our nation in the European Court of Human Rights. I want to emphasize that the slanderers lost. If they couldn't prove it even in the heart of Europe, then it must be just a slander from the West.
Spiritual_Tough_5490@reddit
Meanwhile if you mention the Armenian Genocide in Turkey, freedom of thought goes out the window
AcanthocephalaSea410@reddit
No, in Türkiye, denying or accepting it is not considered a crime, but in France, denying it is a crime. You can lose your job and go to jail. If a country recognize the Armenian genocide, researching it and conducting scientific studies that contradict the state's viewpoint are considered crimes.
That's why the works of Westerners is not accepted in any court international arena.
Spiritual_Tough_5490@reddit
Everyone knows about the "insulting Turkishness" laws and Hrant Dink. France isn't free either, but at least it's not a shithole country.
Vaisiamarrr@reddit
The only reason we don’t recognise it officially is because it would strain relations with Turkey that is an important ally in the black sea region the only one able to counter the russian influence in the region, otherwise it is shameful and the public opinion on this is that we are pussies for not recognizing it considering that Romania was one of the first countries to welcome Armenian refugees fleeing from turkish opression, Armenians have been a loyal and influential minority in Romania, although there are fewer declared armenians(many integrated into the broader romanian community, that was the case with my family) we have a representative of the Armenian community and they always have interventions in the parliament remembering the Genocide
Synthesia92@reddit
Considering that History is written by the Victors, historical events are also open to be discussed and every party should express their opinions on the matter freely. Are we supposed to trust anything because some Westerners say so? How often do they even tell the truth?
NotSoSane_Individual@reddit
Considering that since the 70s-80s Nazi Germany has been given a lot of a lot of grace.
Clean wehrmact and general dissonance between the non-SS military and Nazi crimes in general, and people still giving them the title of being the most 'advance' militarily.
Nazi Germany got off pretty light in mainstream/pop history 40ish years after the fact considering what they did
Ujemegaz@reddit
Recognise Cam genocide then.
merdeauxfraises@reddit
What does the Cambodian genocide have to do with the Balkans?
Spiritual_Tough_5490@reddit
What do the Armenian Genocide and Turkey have to do with the Balkans either?
merdeauxfraises@reddit
It was done by a Balkan nation, I hope this helps.
Ujemegaz@reddit
See? That is a reply i like.
Bluejay1889@reddit
In fact, it's a matter of opinion. And it's protected by US Constitution. There could be neo nazi rallies in the USA, and the towns have to allow that.
Genocide is a crime against humanity and has no expiration date. Turkey has never found guilty of those accused genocides. If Armenians are serious, there is International Court of Criminal Justice. They found Syria, Cambodia, Serbia, etc guilty before. They found Israel guilty and issued arrest warrant against Netanyahu. What are Armenians are waiting for?
I am not talking about Greeks, because their Pontic genocide is literally made up in 90s. They waited 80 years to recognize when Turks and Greeks were trying to get Kardak/Imia. Venizelos visited Turkey multiple times and had great relationship with Atatürk. He even nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize. İsmet İnönü visited Athens and were awarded with medals after the war. If Greeks were horribly treated, how did such event happened in 30s?
Greeks also recognized their war crime in Lausanne Article 51. Because they were too poor to pay reparations, both counties decided to take Meriç / Evros for the border.
Spiritual_Tough_5490@reddit
Nobody is saying that they're not protected freedom of expression. They're just incorrect, and also assholes.
xXbabyangelXx@reddit
This comment section is unbelievable. Thank you for speaking up.
TheoKondak@reddit
Ots a circleherk indeed.
Few_Concentrate_6708@reddit
yes but opinions are opinions even if they are wrong. you have every right to deny any event indepdnetly of wether it hapened.(it did9)
tabulasomnia@reddit
everything can be an opinion. it's just that some opinions are a lot shittier than others. "the armenian genocide didn't happen but they deserved it" is a very shit opinion.
the thing is, yes, people should be free to express their opinions, but they shouldn't be free from the consequences of expressing said opinions. if you say stupid shit, people will treat you as someone that believes stupid shit. if you say recist shit, people will treat you accordingly. shouldn't be surprising.
zara_anwar@reddit
It’s funny how much propaganda centrist Turks put out to make Turkey seem more Western oriented, while their diaspora fucks that image with just a simple mid-sized protest
DramaIndependent5616@reddit
That's not only the diaspora. Many Turks here in the country also thinks the same. Majority of us don't deny the massacres and killings but also know that we were also on the recieving end of it. So more like " Yes we did kill and displace a lot of Armenians, but they tried and did too. We were just better at it." kinda sentiment. From our perspective; It was during the war and both sides did horrible things, no denying on that. The Empire was sinking fast and most of the minorities sided against the Ottomans to gain independence. The Empire got more stricter due to paranoia after each land lost. Even the Turks started rebellions. So people started gangs and militias against the Empire(inc. Turks - ex. Efe/Zeybek). These gangs often clashed against each other aswell. The main problem started after the wars, almost every minority teamed up with the opposite side. Armenians with the Russians, Arabs and part of Kurds with the British etc. With the war things got a lot more violent and on top of that, Turks were getting drafted and sent to the fronts. Settlements left with no man and more prone to gang attacks, minorities got bolder because they were supported by Russians, Brits etc. Things have turned into hate acts pretty quickly and events triggered following events. From our perspective, it was not a genocide but an act of survival for both sides. War crimes? Yes. Massacres? Yes. What we don't accept is, the same countries that instigated and used the rebellions against the Empire are using it as a propaganda tool today.
TesticleSandwiches@reddit
Ah, the old his dog shit on my lawn so I burnt his house down defense.
That pretty much sums up Turnish public mentality regarding genocide and land theft.
Be like British people, just say yeah we did some horrendous shit.
KillerNail@reddit
Attacking defenseless villages is a little bit more than "his dog shit on my lawn" don't you think?
TesticleSandwiches@reddit
Nah look at Cyprus.
Tit for tat for decades, then Cypriots killed 4-500 Turk Cypriots, Turkey's response is:
Taking 35% of the country
Killing 1500 Greek Cypriots
Importing hundreds of thousands of colonialists.
Refusing to give back the land 50 years back.
It's not exactly an even response is it.
capitanmanizade@reddit
Just take the hint bud
TesticleSandwiches@reddit
What hint.
Total Turkish replies on why Turkey is justified importing half a million colonists, drilling for oil etc = 0.
capitanmanizade@reddit
Don’t mess with Turkey lol, it’s really not that hard.
TesticleSandwiches@reddit
It's so cringe.
Do you realise my country already took Istanbul before?
Tell me what would Turkey be without northern European/Anglo military gear lol, you'd be in the stone age.
Comments like yours just show why most of Europe don't think Turkey is suitable for the EU, it's not just a financial thing, it's a cultural thing. You have no concept or morality or fairness.
capitanmanizade@reddit
Bruh get a grip, your country is Islam nation and you’re out here worried about Turkey. Clearly lives rent-free in your mind.
KillerNail@reddit
I didn't reply you regarding that not because you beat me but because I also don't support it, you dingus. Turkey was completely in the right with everything regarding Cyprus EXCEPT for importing Anatolian Turks into Cyprus to grow the Turkish population and drilling for oil. But your point wasn't that Turkey was wrong for that one thing, you were arguing that Turkey was wrong for stopping an ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots.
I have the mental capability to see the rights and wrongs of a country regardless of my connection to it, do you?
TesticleSandwiches@reddit
When did I say turkey was wrong for stopping the fighting?
KillerNail@reddit
Oh so NOW you support a genocide??? What was happening in Cyprus was literally the beginning of a genocide, EOKA was ethnically cleansing Turkish Cypriots (that have been living there for hundreds of years in peace with the rest of the Greek Cypriots) to increase the Greek percentage of the population and join Greece. Turkey legally had the right to enter Cyprus since Turkey, Greece and Britain were guarantors for keeping peace between Greek and Turks in Cyprus and were allowed to do military interventions to protect the Cypriots. The only thing that's not legal is still being in Cyprus after decades, and that's because when Turkey asked Greece for help to stop the racial violence during the reunification of the island they refused. There were hundreds of attempts to reunite the island with both populations being represented in the parliamant, but Greek side of the island refused giving the Turks any seats in the parliament at all. And on top of that EU welcomed Cyprus as a member, even though it was forbidden during the Treaty of Guarantee in 1960 for Cyprus to enter any economic or political union with any country.
So what you're saying now is that you're mad EOKA's genocide of the Turkish Cypriots was stopped by the guarantor country? And Turkey didn't "take 35% of the country", Northern Cyprus is a separate country from Turkey, just like how Southern Cyprus is a separate country from Greece. If you're mad people got killed during the intervention maybe don't start ethnically cleansing the other side?
TesticleSandwiches@reddit
This doesn't counter my point.
Being a guarantor means guaranteeing peace, not importing hundreds of thousands of colonists.
Why is Turkey still there?
KillerNail@reddit
Because leaving it without coming to an agreement with Greece (the other guarantor) or the Greek Cypriots in Cyprus (the ones attempting to ethnically cleanse the Turks living there) would just mean abandoning people to be genocided.
Also what is your point with this whole thread? I simply said that what Armenian gangs did to the Turkish villagers was a bit more than "his dog shit on my lawn", what does that have to do with Cyprus? Are you still pretending those gangs were simply being a little silly and the big, bad, evil Turks clapped back for nothing? Or do you believe the side with more losses is always right?
More Germans died during WW2 compared to Poles, Frenchs, Brits and Americans combined. Do you also think Allies did that "his dog shit on my lawn so I burnt his house down" move and are in the wrong? Or can you look objectively and see the side with more deaths isn't always right when the topic is western countries rather than Turkey?
TesticleSandwiches@reddit
But Turkey put forward an agreement knowing the Greeks wouldn't agree to it. And demanded also having a permanent large military presence on the island.
The violence happened 50 years ago and the Cypriot nationalists are no longer prominent.
Why did Turkey import almost half a million mainland Turks if it's just being a guarantor?
Why is it exploring for oil off the coast if it's just being a guarantor?
So fkin dishonest.
DramaIndependent5616@reddit
Nope, more like "he threw a molotof at my house, so I burnt his house down then sent him out of town" defense. That's the public mentality yes. Regarding the land theft, we are 60-70% Anatolians so this land belongs to us aswell. I also accept that we did some horrendous shit but don't expect me to apologize for shooting you in the head when you point a gun at my face. I wonder if people would be talking about a "Turkish Genocide" if we were the losing side in the end.
Ok-Priority253@reddit
Such an insane way to think about things and I really don't think you or the people liking your comment are even aware of how insane it sounds to anyone outside of Turkey
TesticleSandwiches@reddit
Yet if Greece came back now, took Cyprus and took back Istanbul with the help of a European alliance, you wouldn't find a single one of these commentators would say it's fair since the Turks did something previously.
It's simply one rule for them and another for everyone else.
DramaIndependent5616@reddit
Nope, I'm aware of how it sounds. It's just realism that many people can't grasp. I could write it in a more 'civil' way, but why bother? When you read or do research about history, you start with a bias, since you're all sure of the genocide. That's why it seems insane to you. It's not even propaganda or anything. I didn't learn about these events in school. Part of my family is from Erzurum, and there's a local expression called 'Armenian nail,' which originates from events when Armenian gangs nailed villagers to walls, mosques and poles. IMO, we Turks are clueless about the events that Turks went through, so that's why they approach these subjects in such a naive way. The only difference is that we don't want anyone's sympathy, because as I said, it's all political driven by propaganda supported by clueless Western people. Many attempts by Turkish academics to discuss these events with solid proof were blocked by the Western academic or politic lobbies, some of us Turks know that it's political hence no proof will change the view on these events. When you start your research with the idea of Turks not belonging to these lands, every cruel thing done to us seems justified to you. I've been on many arguments where people considered killing babies as justified because that baby's ancestors conquered that land 1000 years ago lol.
Ok-Priority253@reddit
This might be the biggest strawman I've ever seen in my life. It's funny how literally every imperialist country says how the entire world is conspiring against them to paint them as evil because of racism or whatever. It's every single one, genuinely please let me know if there's one that doesn't do that. Nobody fucking cares about Turkey man, the historians that speak out against it came to that conclusion after studying Turkish history, not beforehand.
And no, when some people are killed by a military which contains people of an ethnic group, the realistic response is not to massacre hundreds of thousands of civilians and wipe that ethnic group out, as I already said that is absolute medieval insanity and it is crazy that in 2026 there are still people that think like that in what is supposedly a developed country. Either way, there's no point in arguing. It's the same as holocaust denial (or I guess in this case holocaust justification? glorification?), there's already so much historical work and consensus out there, I doubt there's anything I can say to break the perpetual-victim mentality.
TesticleSandwiches@reddit
It's just unchecked nationalim and propaganda. When you don't have people arguing back you get viewpoints like you see in this thread.
This is exactly the reason many Europeans don't view Turkish as truly European, there is a massive culture difference.
xXbabyangelXx@reddit
After all the systematic propaganda they're fed, it's no wonder they speak like this, even though it's completely wrong.
ISpent30mins4myname@reddit
What happened at the time is not even remotely close to what British or other colonialists did. They all did it for economic gains like natural resources or slavery.
Relocating rebelling nations to the edges of the country's territory is an old Ottoman tradition. It was not meant to kill anyone, but the sick man of europe was REALLY sick. When Armenians rebelled against the empire by killing and massacring the local Kurdish villages, empire at the time decided to relocate them despite its lack of resources and manpowers which caused a lot of deaths along the way.
Classifying this with what happened in ww2, Africa or other continents with the invading colonialist, is unfair to everyone.
TesticleSandwiches@reddit
Nah it's arguably worse.
For all the faults of the British Empire, everything was for money and power.
You were killing people just based on blood.
ISpent30mins4myname@reddit
There were no ethnic identity in Ottomans. Unlike the British Empire, Ottomans had a lot of minorities living inside a relatively small space that formed the main land. Armenians didn't even fight Turks, they were mostly clashing with Kurdish villages. You can't really make it a "blood" thing if it had nothing to do with blood.
The first prime minister of Armenia, Hovhannes Kajaznuni wrote a manifesto after the first world war that states what happened at the time. He wrote about that Armenians were armed by Russian forces and fed the dreams of freedom to fight and weaken the Ottoman empire. They were later capitulated by the Soviets.
This had nothing to do with hatred or racism.
w221119200@reddit
“There is no ethnic identity in the Ottoman Empire”, yet it’s funny how you guys just killed all the Christians who lived there
RestaurantBoring417@reddit
"Both sides did horrible things" you mean like Israel and Palestine, right? It's not a both sides issue, the Turks killed way more people than the other way around, it's not comparable at all.
Turkey really is just a second Israel lmao
Less-Most-2861@reddit
Many Turks in Germany have roots in the Turkish migrant workers who had immigrated to Germany in the 1960s from Central Anatolian conservative right-wing families, thus, they tend to be more conservative nationalist. Conversely, Turks in USA or Canada etc tend to be much secular left-leaning because Turkish immigration to the USA/Canada occurred mainly through white-collar skilled immigration or through graduate/undergraduate education etc.
Ok-Priority253@reddit
Do most Turks in Turkey not deny the genocide?
ISpent30mins4myname@reddit
Denying genocide here is equivalent to being a traitor. It is one of the few topics that unites everyone in the country. Only some of the radical lefts (commie sympathizers) or the radical rights (usa sympathizers) deny it, and not even all of them tbh.
Shoddy_Ad3490@reddit
I'm proud to be a traitor :)
Tiny_Control_1522@reddit
French/Kurdish 🤣
ISpent30mins4myname@reddit
Kurds in Anatolia hates Armenians more than anyone. Armenians claim to rule the Kurdish provinces. You would get a really harsh reactions if you said anything about it in Anatolia. I can tell you are not from here, so dont worry.
Ok-Priority253@reddit
Insane. Reminds me of a post here recently complaining about how the EU didn't want Turkey because of turkophobia and racism.
urhiteshub@reddit
Closer and sustained non-hostile contact with Europeans would probably encourage more people to acknowledge it. Currently there isn't any significant internal force or movement raising the issue, and it's basically a politically suicidal and socially controversial position.
Tiny_Control_1522@reddit
We deny
kicklhimintheballs@reddit
Unlike the diaspora in Western Europe American Turks are actually more Western oriented and educated than Turkey Turks. Erdogan gets 15% and opposition 80%> of the vote. There isn’t even a district in Turkey that is this anti-Erdogan.
This is same for Spain or any other country that has not implemented Gastarbeiter mass immigration schemes.
Boraivkovv@reddit
Denying genocid is peak western performance
HansDerVogel@reddit
Denying genocide is peak performance of most countries that committed it. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Dont ask the germans about the herero & nama
RestaurantBoring417@reddit
They at least recognize the genocides they committed, unlike a certain country
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Surely the herero and nama cant possibly want anything more than that /s
Das_Lloss@reddit
Well we did another tiny little thing a bit after our time in africa which overshadows, what we did down there, quite considerablely.
Boraivkovv@reddit
When did i deny anything? By that logic i would assume you wouldnt classify massacers of serbs in lower podrinje by the forces of naser oric as a genocide wich would make you cognitively dissonant.
HansDerVogel@reddit
Never said you denied anything lad, just said denying genocide isn't a western exclusive thing. I'm well aware of the massacres commited by parts of the Arbih army and you won't catch me being apologetic about it either.
RestaurantBoring417@reddit
Says the Serb lmao
HansDerVogel@reddit
Diaspora always try to overcompensate for patriotism using blatant nationalism and fascism. Always found the phenomenon fascinating
Sasayego@reddit
Youre an idiot to think this is only for diaspora. Many Turks in Turkiye that are like this. We dont believe in a so called genocide.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Well, at least you are sincere and do not try to justify. We got to repect that.
Sasayego@reddit
We cant justify for something that didnt happen. Many Turks were also murdered in the Balkans, by the same logic we should also be calling it a genocide. But we know it was war, we know causallties did happen. But then you got the armenian cry babies, as if they didnt start any rebellion.
RestaurantBoring417@reddit
Lmao you are both siding a genocide now? Are you also Israeli by chance? The few Turks who were killed are nothing in comparision to the millions that were slaughtered by the Ottomans
DavidGrandKomnenos@reddit
Death marches. Mass shootings. The Armenian populations are essentially gone.
Ottoman regime took their homes, their homelands, and Republican Turks can't deal with the guilt so just pretend it never happened. Kemalists transitioned from Arabic to Latin and raised a whole society who can't read a word of what was written at the time.
Sasayego@reddit
Ohhh really and that all happend against armenians right? Armenians didnt kill any Kurds or Turks in the region. Stfu already.
sokolobo@reddit
Ah yes the "Didn't happen but they deserved it" used unironically once again.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Believe or not, i am against such resolutions in the parliaments. Why should a parliament write down some historical events and vote them.
idontknowwheream@reddit
That's why you are a backwards country with little islands of civilization in Constantinople and Smyrna.
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
Buddy this isnt a disapora opinion. This behaviour comes straight from Turkey.
jaunmilijej@reddit
Why do you think we dislike the diaspora so much
Successful-Weight-44@reddit
Outrages that turks protest and try to hide a genocide their country did to Armenians just some 100 years ago. They should be deported in my opinion.
Luckily, in Germany it is illegal to claim it was not a genocide that turkey did. Hopefully more countries will follows the example.
One_Bill_8581@reddit
Mmm, love it. You know what? There’s no other place where you don’t even need to move a bit to spark hate, fights, war, and bloodshed like in the Balkans. We, as probably the most idiotic people of the region, can fck each other up with just a couple of words. History is our topics
this place used to be ours, your grandfather killed mine, my dck is bigger than yours. For real, guys. We’re basically relatives at this point. My great-great-great-grandfather prob fcked your great-great-great-grandmother, and yours did the same to mine. We’ve lived on the same fcking lands for years literally, for god’s sake!
I don’t even know you, but I know I’d feel at home staying at your place. Because we have exactly the same lifestyle. Our moms and dads are exactly the same, you know that. You know it damn well.
Religion isn’t even a problem anymore, because the new generation is at least 60% non-theist in most countries or they just don’t care. Guys, we’re not in ancient times. And I’m sick of these nonsense topics.
And as for Mamdani ++ who the f*ck are you to bring up these topics? Mind your own business MAYOR.
TurkishEngineer35@reddit
Why does this make me laugh out of my ass
HansDerVogel@reddit
They're allowed to protest and be wrong about it at the same time. Kind of the point of free speech I guess.
atrixospithikos@reddit
You think they wouldn't be arrested if they protested denying the Holocaust?. Denying the Armenian genocide is as vile and no it shouldn't be allowed
SwimNo8457@reddit
No, in NYC at least, they wouldn't have been arrested if they protested denying the holocaust. And denying the Armenian genocide, or any other genocide, is allowed in the United States. In this country there is the first amendment to the constitution, which explicitly enshrines the right of all men to "freedom of speech, or of the press" and "the right of the people peaceably to assemble." This behavior is allowed by the government because shortly before the constitution was ratified the government had to fight a very costly war to get that right back because of the British practice of prosecuting seditious libel and the passing of the stamp acts in Britain's North American colonies
HomeworkResident8510@reddit
Freedom of speech ahh
unironicunredacted@reddit
No, she wanted Netanyahu to do a false flag in her school- pretty different.
One_Plant3522@reddit
So the joke was invoking Netanyahu to bomb a college building to prevent she and a group from having to do a project or something. This was in a whatapp groupchat with over 200 people so kinda stupid.
It was 100% a joke but the local judge (Florida) interpreted it as a threat of violence and therefore not free speech. It'll keep working through the courts, and I would bet money she isn't convicted.
SwimNo8457@reddit
That's why I said NYC. Literacy at an all time low.
South-Fudge-1550@reddit
the thing is armenian genocide didnt happen
D_Axeman@reddit
I think they should have the right to deny everything they want, and we have the right to mock them too.
LibertyChecked28@reddit
Its not like being liberal towards the ideologization of genocide, and being indifference towards the advocation of genocide adjacent practices has ever backfired /s
NoItem5389@reddit
This is the American way
HansDerVogel@reddit
My thoughts exactly
RatioOk515@reddit
People are denying MMR vaccines, do we jail them?
Bsquared02@reddit
Not a crime in America unfortunately
HansDerVogel@reddit
Funnily enough they probably wouldn't be arrested denying the holocaust, as vile as it is
FssstBoing@reddit
I know it's a sensitive issue but every nation has done terrible stuff in the past.
Maybe we should start owning our previous mistakes.
PS it was absolutely a genocide
R_Scoops@reddit
It’s difficult for Turkey because their whole pathos and foundation story is a lie and their whole identity is built on it. It’s sad
CerebraICortex@reddit
Lool Anatolian Turks started building after 1071. Learn history. It’s actually the opposite, Turks dgaf about greeks and armenians but greeks and armenians have built their entire identity on hating Turks and it’s pathetic.
newidiotintown@reddit
I truly wonder why Armenians hate Turks
CerebraICortex@reddit
Bc they didn’t get to do the ethnic cleansing instead. It’s no secret that they wanted to create a nationstate where at the time Armenians made up a 1/3 of the population. How do you think that would’ve happened?
xXbabyangelXx@reddit
"Misinformation campaigns" when your country systematically teaches school kids that Armenians are your enemy, all while Turkey has major press censorship and propaganda issues.
You guys will truly never understand the harm your country has caused and continues to double down on while blaming its victims.
CerebraICortex@reddit
Lol Turks dgaf about Armenians, they don’t teach kids anything about Armenia bc it’s irrelevant today; get over yourselves. It’s absolutely the opposite where Armenian children are taught that Turks want to destroy them.
xXbabyangelXx@reddit
Sure. That's why nearly every comment section regarding anything Armenian is filled with Turks and Azeris bragging about massacres and rape. So dgaf about Armenians totally!!
This is what being out of touch with reality is like. Turkey ranks so low on the press freedom index while Armenia is quite high up there. That won't mean anything to you, though.
CerebraICortex@reddit
Lmao you’re full of shit. No one brags about anything only losers like yourself cry in the comments and spread misinformation like you just did.
Armenia will remain insignificant for the remainder of history. You’re comments on reddit will never amount to anything more than pixels on a screen.
w221119200@reddit
Congratulations, the most ignorant statement I’ve ever seen on Reddit. What an accomplishment!
R_Scoops@reddit
It’s strange that the only people who believe there wasn’t a genocide is other Turks. If it looks like a dog and barks like a dog…
Maybe you should familiarise yourself with the differences between the Turkish nation state and the Ottoman Empire. It’s not pictures of Mehmed II in every single room in Turkey it’s Ataturk. It’s not Ottoman day that’s celebrated its Independence Day. Turkish nationalism is built around 1921, Kemalism, denying genocide (poor us blah), War for “independence” and in a distant 5th some pride over Ottoman empire shit show that was declining for the last 200 years. It’s time for you to go back and do some research so you’re not embarrassed again.
CerebraICortex@reddit
Lol the Turkish position is nuanced so I don’t expect any smooth brains on reddit like you to understand anyway. I never denied anything but you were quick to dehumanize Turks due to pure ignorance.
The Turkish republic has nothing to do with the crimes of the Ottoman state ruled by three dictators who carried out atrocities in the name of the CUP which was founded by Turks, Greeks and Albanians from the Balkans… The Turkish war of independence was a fight against an existential threat to an independent Turkish nation… it’s no secret what Western powers were trying to do to Turkey and how Ottoman leadership betrayed Turks in the end. There’s a reason the dynasty lives in. England today.
The Anatolian Turks as a “nation” started forming in 1071 which is the foundation of the modern people… The Ottoman state was referred to as the Turkish Empire for a reason.
There is no modern nationstate which formed without ethnic cleansing… pretty much every minority culture and language in every European state was either wiped out or oppressed. And certainly no European empire which didn’t engage in it but no one talks about them ofc the double standards clear as day.
menteto@reddit
Huh? You need to relearn history
TayyipDidNoWrong@reddit
It’s difficult for Armenia because their whole pathos and foundation story is a lie and their whole identity is built on it. It’s sad
Fixed it for ya.
R_Scoops@reddit
Armenias history is thousands of years long. Most Turkish people aren’t even “Turkic” they’re just a mix of Balkan, Greek and general southern European.
TayyipDidNoWrong@reddit
Yeah, thousand years of bootlicking and almost gone extinct if not for Ottomans. Then they let russia influence them and use them, killed thousands of innocent turks and understandably expelled(see: balkan wars and 5m+ civilian turks got massacred).
According to official documents, there's around 1.5M Armenian lived in ottoman during that time, which doesn't really fit the 1.5m died narrative, but cognitive thinking is always out the door when discussing how barbaric the Turks are.
R_Scoops@reddit
Cognitive thinking? When you take a shower do you say “I’m going for a wet shower” or “I’m having a food meal”? Maybe try and not embarrass yourself by trying to sound smart using “big” words in future.
AnormalMaymun@reddit
He isn't trying to sound smart, he probably failed to translate "Biliçli düşünme" which means "Studied thinking"
Ngl that also sounds stupid but doesn't have such intend behind it.
menteto@reddit
Dude, you need to shut up and stop embarrassing yourself
ExpensiveNet59@reddit
"Turkish people aren’t even “Turkic” they’re just a mix of Balkan, Greek and general southern European."
Oh so you recognize they are natives of Anatolia then right?
R_Scoops@reddit
Who doesn’t think that? Is this your strawman so you don’t have to acknowledge genocide?
KillerNail@reddit
Literally ever single Turkophobe on the internet that claim "Turkish people of today are Mongol raiders that pillaged Anatolia"? Have you ever been on Instagram or any right wing international subreddit? Even under unrelated posts that aren't about Turkey but just happen to have a Turkish person in it are bombarded with "Go back to Mongolia", "Turkish DNA results (insert emojis of all the Balkan flags + Armenian flag)", "Istanbul is Constantinople, give it back" etc.
R_Scoops@reddit
What a weird reply, no one mentioned Mongols anywhere.. You may struggle with comprehension. I also I don’t think that. Turkish people are a mixture of Greek, Balkan, Anatolian, Armenian, Circassian, Kurdish and general Caucasian (like your Georgian president). It’s not a bad thing it just shows how ridiculous Turkish nationalism and trying to manufacture a mono-ethno state by murdering and ethnic cleansing the early 20th century is and was.
KillerNail@reddit
I didn't say you claimed Turks are Mongols. I only explained to you that this is, in fact, not a strawman and something people actually say all the time. That is all.
Also Turkish nationalism isn't about coming from a single ethnicity or race of thousands of years old, unlike European nationalism. If you read the constitution of Turkey it clearly states that "Türk Devletine vatandaşlık bağı ile bağlı olan herkes Türk'tür" ("Everyone who is bound to the Turkish State by citizenship is a Turk.") and Atatürk also said that "Türk; Türkiye Cumhuriyeti'ne vatandaşlık bağıyla bağlı olan, ortak dil, kültür ve ülkü birliğini paylaşan, kendini Türk sayan herkesdir." (A Turk is anyone who is bound to the Republic of Türkiye by citizenship, shares a common language, culture, ideals, and considers themselves Turkish.). You could be a black Christian man from Senegal, move to Turkey, get citizenship and become a nationalist, because Turkish nationalism has nothing to do with ethnicity, blood, religion or color.
w221119200@reddit
Your last statement is hilarious considering mustafa Kemal said that after he finished killing all the Christians who lived in Anatolia.
KillerNail@reddit
You mean the British and French invaders? The Armenian genocide is dated to 1915, when Atatürk was just a commander in Gallipoli. He didn't set foot in Anatolia until 1919 after that. And all the Balkan wars happened decades before that too. What Christian population are you even talking about?
It's honestly really fucking funny how the Muslim Turkophobes accuse Atatürk of discriminating and massacaring the Muslims, while Christian Turkophobes accuse him of doing the exact same thing to the Christians, when all he did was lead Turks against the British, French and Greek invading forces and make some much needed reforms that the Ottoman rulers skipped out on due to being too busy killing time in their palaces.
ExpensiveNet59@reddit
Well thats an improvement compared to older times then, when people were talking about kicking Turks off from Anatolia because they werent natives.
drppr_@reddit
I don’t know why people keep bring this up lol. This is not a problem for the average Turkish person. Only the ultra nationalistic grey wolves and the their ilk will be bothered by it. Turkishness today has nothing to do with how Turkic we are as a people. It is not emphasized in schools or in daily discourse even a little bit. We are aware that we are a mix of enthicities. Heck people proudly talk about their family origin being from Balkans, Crete and other Greek islands, Caucusus, Levant etc.
The only ethnic origins people keep hush-hush are (unfortunately) Kurdish and Armenian due to fear of discrimination. Even then the issue is not being ethnically Turkish because people who are doing the discrimination are also not of Turkic origin. You will find plenty of “Turkish nationalists” of non-Turkic origin in Turkey. We just don’t view Turkishness and nationality this way.
counter_attacher@reddit
sorry we didn’t let some some balkan nations and armenians kill all the turks. we were less successful(to survive) in balkans tho. again sorry for our lifes
Ok-Priority253@reddit
Israel and Turkey should really come closer together you guys have so much in common
crivycouriac@reddit
First time we see Turkish Americans anywhere, they’ve been pretty secret so far
AcanthocephalaSea410@reddit
They even hold positions in Trump's cabinet. Dr. Oz is trying to fix America's broken healthcare system.
crivycouriac@reddit
Yes, I only know Dr. Oz and Cenk Uygur
jaunmilijej@reddit
You forgot the good ol pal Hasan Abi
Interesting_Ice_4925@reddit
You have 88 mil people just in the country itself - was there really no one better than Cenk, Hasan, and Oz to represent you guys? Just one person
Zrva_V3@reddit
More like we don't have famous Turkish Americans. Turkish diaspora in US is pretty small anyway. Our country's size is rather irrelevant.
Far_Piccolo6495@reddit
I think they have Eric Adams as well.
vuastes@reddit
bro only georgians i remember is stalin and erdogan
Random_Name_2k26@reddit
According to MyHeritage I'm Turkish of Georgian descent so that makes three Georgians I know.
Asleep_Company4166@reddit
I mean. Mr Erdoğan claiming to be a Georgian. Jokes aside Turks migrate either a working class or self hating educated class. Normal educated class usually come back to Turkey. Of course there would be few expection Like Aziz Sancar, but he isnt working on Lobby for Turk diaspora. Turks dont have tendency to create lobbies, more like create ghettos in more traditional way.
5555555555558653@reddit
Özil? But he’s Germany really tbh.
It’s actually surprising how few famous Turks there are.
Darth-Vectivus@reddit
Isn’t he Albanian?
gk98s@reddit
Nice Greek streamer
wermotivation_@reddit
You mean Hamas Diddy "Dog Shocker Furry" piçer!?
TatarAmerican@reddit
Cenk's nephew, nepo baby -and- grifter. Rare combo
w221119200@reddit
Two of the biggest fools in America today, and that’s saying something!
merdeauxfraises@reddit
You gotta be joking with this example 🤣
Meowmeowmeow31@reddit
lol no he is not. He’s a quack.
Spiritual_Tough_5490@reddit
He's about as much a doctor as Dr. Mario
Commercial_Law_1689@reddit
100% there was a time he was a respectable surgeon, those days are loooong past. Now he doesn't even deserve the title.
FannishNan@reddit
Yup. The greatest irony. If he'd stayed a surgeon he'd be a legend in the medical community based off how people have talked about his talent in the past.
Instead, he's utterly destroyed that reputation as well and is a absolute joke.
Commercial_Law_1689@reddit
Yep, stuff he worked on would have been a legend. Now he'll be known as the TV pseudoscience quack with shitty politics.
FannishNan@reddit
Him and Ben Carson come to mind. Two amazing surgeons who absolutely wrecked themselves chasing fame and ended up in the trash.
But as the saying goes, sleep with the devil and wake up with burns on your ass.
Meowmeowmeow31@reddit
Delawareans 🤝 Turks
Being embarrassed by Dr. Oz
gryphon_sprinter@reddit
Seriously. Türkiye can have him back. Send someone better. Oz used his legit credentials to sell snake oil to a less educated populace. Not much that guy wouldn’t sell for a few dollars.
ShmurShmur@reddit
What an asinine take - this is the guy who peddled psychics, “faith doctors”, and a bunch of anti vaxxers. Completely contradicting his medical education.
Single handily gave my family so much misinformation because they didn’t have the medical background to disprove any of the things he said and took it as the truth because of he was a licensed doctor.
For future reference - any doctor you see on TV making a profit is more than likely a grifter getting your money.
Spiritual_Tough_5490@reddit
Stopped reading at "What an asinine take"
Commercial_Handle418@reddit
Also mtg💀
She went to Havard for nothing
ZapruderFilmBuff@reddit
Fix? With what? Quack medicine and hack advice?
ImamTrump@reddit
The Oz and the common folk carrying signs are not the same crowd bud. Oz is American first. Always was.
Alternative-Tie-4970@reddit
I didn't know he was a Turk. I guess I never questioned his surname.
Bergfried@reddit
Have you never questioned his name either?
Alternative-Tie-4970@reddit
I've never heard his name
Maverick-not-really@reddit
He is not trying to ”fix” anything. He is a grifting scumbag who should have had his license revoked a decade ago
KPlusGauda@reddit
How, by selling them snake oil?
Dyspchordia@reddit
the last time he was hunting for armenian run clinics through the city, should be a nice break from terrorizing trans people and crying yourself to sleep because you were supposed to be a honest snake oil seller but now you are associated with the one of the most criminal regimes in US history without anyway to cut yourself lose.
KathenWalle6@reddit
Can you back up the claim of he is hunting armenian clinics out of pure racism and his hatred towards transgender or you just talking just to talk?
Dyspchordia@reddit
>of pure racism and his hatred towards transgender
it doesnt need to be for it to be problematic when you are more inclined to do target one group, or not respecting bodily autonomy of trans people, and propelling yourself through ranks using it.
no one needs to prove you that you are metaphysically evil to oppose and ridicule you for the harm you cause.
KathenWalle6@reddit
This answer is such an empty answer and not what i asked. Do you have any solid proof of him hunting, shutting down armenian dominant clinics and shittalking, violating trans people with his actions and/or his words?
If you do not have any solid proof then just shut the fuck up
And one last thing why do you think he is inclined to hate armenians and lgbt? Cause he is a turk and probably sunni muslim?
Or is it "takes one to know one" type thing? You do it and you expect him to do the same thing back to you?
Dyspchordia@reddit
no because he is a crony crook and emulates trump admin in his microauthority
so its even worse
Atvaaa@reddit
honestly it's kinda his job tracking medicine fraud no? Armenians like Turks have big family ties which makes it possible to establish these connections.
foolishandnonsense@reddit
That's just one guy. You can find people of different origins anywhere in the USA.
Atlandios000@reddit
Dr Oz used to be pretty famous some years ago actually.
cardfire@reddit
For US daytime television, which is something to be embarrassed for.
CapitalNothing1696@reddit
Oz is a Fetöcü(gulenist) terrorist and Hasanabi's father is one of the founders of an islamist party but Cenk is slightly okay I guess
Left-Function7277@reddit
As a Turkish American I always thought this was weird. Lots of them pretend to be Italians for some reason.
Taht_Funky_Dude@reddit
where is the kebap-pizza habibi 😂
Tiny_Sir3266@reddit
Hasan d piker?..Young Turks?
Lucky_Musician_@reddit
The cat 🐈 is out the 💼
anlamsizadam@reddit
Believe me those people are not doing things they do because of they are Turks, and they have no desire to doing anything beneficial for Turks. Look at their backgrounds and you'll either see they're being funded by the dictator and his extentions or they're radical islamists who wants to show Turks as nothing more than 'muslims'. They're doing this types of things abroad and they're telling world is only seeing us as Arabs and Muslims back at home.
So, they're creating a win-win situation. They're living their best lives without doing anything with funds which comes from our taxes and they're making it hard for us to leave the country so we can keep being used as tax slaves.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
Turkic culture is Arabized Persian, so.
anlamsizadam@reddit
And Greeks are just christian Turks, so.
aido_wimm@reddit
This is actually true,lol. You are just a christian Turk but are unaware. Being born into x or y religion doesnt change your roots.
Yea, Turks have mixed with Araps & Persians too but we are still very different as we stem from far easter and reach much wester
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
lol.
u wish, don't u?
in reality, we have nothing to do w/ Turks, while u are (extremely) to Persians & Arabs.
ConicalJohn@reddit
They live in Astoria, Queens, NYC, among the Greeks.
Every_Okra_3604@reddit
Mayor of NYC is such a Turk lover he became an Albanian citizen.
Fun_Routine_208@reddit
They sl1how up it droves if it's to deny the Armenian genocide.
JeremieOnReddit@reddit
What is a Turkish American? The OP is about Turks living in New-York.
Discipline_Cautious1@reddit
Octomom ?
ZestycloseHat4990@reddit
Now every body in the US will know about them
PckMan@reddit
I refuse to believe they aren't shills. It's ok to admit past governments did bad things. Who in their right mind would take personal offense over this, let alone go through the trouble of printing placards and busting out the Turkmobile.
So more likely than not this is paid for by the Turkish government.
Proof-Character-9350@reddit
I absolutely agree with you. But at this point, when you say you are Turkish, everyone goes like “what about Armenian genocide?” Even if it’s not related to topic. And at some point you just get really annoyed. And this thing becomes a touchy political subject instead of history. Plus many Turkish people are frustrated with the westerners not acknowledging massacres Armenians commited against Turks and Kurds before and after 1915 events.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
There were massacres of turks after the genocide but none before it
Proof-Character-9350@reddit
No there were massacres before genocide. Thats the literal reason of the genocide.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
No... the reason was the Armenian Question
Proof-Character-9350@reddit
Bro please research Armenian Atrocities in Muş / Bitlis. These happened in 1914-1915.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
They did, they had the armenian question prior and after the hamidian massacres
Proof-Character-9350@reddit
Bro talk after you research the events I just send
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
Yeah. You are talking about the ethnic clashes between 1914-1915. But they were largely retaliatory because of the hamidian masssacres and adana massacre which were also fueled by the Armenian Question.
Proof-Character-9350@reddit
I won’t talk about Hamidian massacres. He was a monsterous tyrant and even Turks suffered under his rule. But Adana events happened because Armenian comitee tried to found a local Armenian government in the area. And it was mostly ethnic clashes the area.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
Last thing, the Adana massacres happened because of a power vacuum that formed after the young turk revolution which was met with a counter revolution by the abdul hamid supporters. There was groeing tension because local Armenians were going through a phase of economic prosperity leaving local muslims jealous in a way. Local leaders and the media spread rumours of Armenian revolt. So this mixed with the prior tensions led to the massacres.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
The ARF worked with the CUP. I cited the Hamidian Massacres as a point in ethnic tensions, yet it also includes the balkan crisis and greek ethnic cleansing which was later applied to the Armenians as the CUP was becoming more nationlistic and pan turkic. As another commenter said, to justify claim to a land, ethnic cleansing was done, which happened on both sides. Yet thoseethnic clashes also led to Armenian death, and with the pretext of ww1 and russian invasion, they began a systematic destruction of Armenians and other Christiam groups with those ethnic clashes being beneficial to their narratives. All death is bad, no matter ethnicity. You just presented the ethnic clashes as the reason or main one, maybe it was not intentional. But you are right, the Ottomans didn't wake up one day and decide to commit genocide. It was a gradual increase in nationalism and violence/injustice against minorities leading to rebellion, ethnic clashes and genocide. This does not absolve the Armenians who took part in those massacres, yet it does not absolve the Turks either. Which I think you will agree with.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
Those atrocities were not only limited to Turks, they were ethnic clashes and retaliatory. Yet, nothing excuses any massacre and genocide
Proof-Character-9350@reddit
Yes. This doesn’t excuse a genocide. Nothing excuses a genocide. But it’s stupid to act like Turks just woke up and decided to commit genocide. This happened because of massacres Armenians committed. And denying it is as absurd as denying the genocide. You can’t just accept the genocide and deny the reasons of it.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
It is neither the sole or main reason. And I am not denying those massacres.
Proof-Character-9350@reddit
You know what, whatever the reasons were for massacers and genocide, humans died. Witnesses of all these events are long gone. No matter which one of us is right, lots of people died. Both sides did many inhumane things. And both nations are wounded by it. I don’t think these wounds will heal anytime soon. But no matter what you and I agree or accept, what happened won’t change. So we shouldn’t realy waste our time with these.
Proof-Character-9350@reddit
It’s not the sole reason. Yes. But they were one of the main reasons. Think these like a final push. There already was some tension. But this one triggered the genocide. If these didn’t happened, there would bunch of other fucked up stuff. But they wouldn’t be in this scale.
xXbabyangelXx@reddit
Yet Armenians have to tolerate Turks brigading every single post, anywhere, of anything remotely Armenian and completely unrelated to anything Turkish, and leaving inhumane comments bragging about the people killed or posting pictures of enver pasha (equivalent to h!tler btw), and they're still in the wrong for speaking up about it?
You can admit something wrong was done without spinning it on Armenians, either. This is why people are saying that Israel and Turkey are similar.
Proof-Character-9350@reddit
Bro I said it happened and its fucked. But I tried to explain why this topic became such a absurdly politic topic for Turks. And yes, Turks brigading on every single Armenian shit is bad too. But it doesn’t justify treatment to Turkish posts either. Racism is bad. No matter which side does it. They are both fucked up.
KillerPalm@reddit
“Supporting the Armenian genocide”
Wait a minute…
veleso91@reddit
Mamadani's a Turk, confirmed!
dormantprotonbomb@reddit
Mamdanistan
capitanmanizade@reddit
At this point Armenian Genocide and Armenia are the same thing.
KillerPalm@reddit
Anyway most of the controvery I've seen was him tying the ecents of the Karabakh war into the Genocide.
scanfash@reddit
I mean honestly there is not much of an Armenian vote to gather in NYC they are not a major community, so unless he is trying to peddle to Greeks as well with this which he might given his appearance in the Cathedral for Annunication ( I believe it was )
KillerPalm@reddit
That's probably it as well. And even if there aren't that many I'd guess there's still more Armenians than Turks.
scanfash@reddit
Yeah probably but tbh the Armenian community is tiny in NYC like around or below 50k (to my knowledge at least) which in the scale of NYC is basically nothing so if anything I think it’s targeting the Greek voters that do make up a good sized voting block, from what I could see Turks make up around 20k in NYC so probably wouldn’t be worth making sure none of the 20k vote for you over a % of 50k Armenians voting for you
AchillesDev@reddit
> I think it’s targeting the Greek voters that do make up a good sized voting block
Most Greek-Americans aren't going to be swayed by it, and the few who are are not Mamdani voters to begin with. The generations that would've cared are mostly dead.
KillerPalm@reddit
That plus I’d be surprised if many of those Turks vote for the Republican Party who are generally anti Muslim anyway.
So the mayor really has nothing to lose by posting this 🤷♀️
ChickenDelight@reddit
I didn't know anything about Turkish-Americans, but two things:
A lot of times, when American politicians pander to small groups, it's not about "winning" them, it's getting a few extra votes in sompetitive districts. So, okay, maybe Republicans get 20% of the Turkish vote, but if they can bump that up to 30% there's another two seats they can win.
Different immigrant groups in America can be pretty unpredictable, it all depends on when and how they came to the USA. Cuban-Americans for example are very conservative, because a lot of them were wealthier and whiter and they're all very anti-Communism. A lot of immigrants from specific Muslim countries are similar, a lot of them aren't religious at all and left when their countries became theocratic and economically stagnant.
Again I don't know anything about Turks, I'm just saying it's complicated. But Trump takes the Turkish side on the Armenian genocide question, and let's be honest he clearly did that because someone told him it was smart politics (because obviously Trump doesn't actually care and wouldn't normally back the Muslim "side" in a genocide against Christians).
Critical-Positive858@reddit
right LA is where armenians have a real voting bloc
Total-Employment-479@reddit
He is very consistent on being anti genocide
94_stones@reddit
That’s not the reason he mentioned it. The reason is because there are clear parallels between what Turkey did to Armenians and what Israel is doing to Palestinians. Turks & Israelis alike can deny that as much as they want, but it’s the truth.
KillerPalm@reddit
Then why tie the events of the Karabakh war into it? Especially because that has not been classified as a genocide (an ethnic cleansing is not a genocide)
Why say Turkey was also responsible for that? They had no troops on the ground, was it just because of the support they gave? Then why not call Israel as well? You're also going to end up with people saying he's ignorning all the Azeris who were displaced/killed during the first war.
It just reeks of someone who doesn't actually know that much about the events that occured. Why not just leave it to the Armenian Genocide mention only?
Vast-Profession160@reddit
This!!! And also nobody really knows the exact events of that incident. I mean I’ve read so many contradicting things about the genocide… for starters thrice the population of Armenians that were killed were Turks. How does that happen if it’s a genocide? Then others say they died on the road because the Ottomans displaced them to Syria etc… so the debate is ongoing but for some reason, and that’s probably because there is a significant population of Armenians in the USA, the USA likes to talk about it… I mean Americans are something else😆 they talk about everybody but thmeselves. Anyways I doubt Mamdani cares about this
waitbutwhycc@reddit
I’d be more shocked if he didn’t care about this actually. He vocally opposed Israeli occupation of Palestine, despite a VERY large Jewish population. I don’t think it’s about “winning the Armenian vote”
idontknowwheream@reddit
Term genocide is now using way too often. But if Gaza or Ukraine are counted as it, then artsakh events are definitely genocide
GladisTheWhale@reddit
it's a big topic and especially jewish people care about it a lot so he's probably trying to do the right thing and pacify his jewish constituency
TatarAmerican@reddit
It's definitely not the Armenian votes (comparable to Turkish votes at this point in NYC) or capital.
I think it's far simpler. Azerbaijan and Israel are (unofficially) allied, and this was one way his administration could stick it to the Azeris for that. These people are just that petty.
KillerPalm@reddit
Hmm you'd think he'd name drop Israel to really hammer it home. Or have a 'unfortunately genocides are still happening today' in there or something.
Some-Basket-4299@reddit
It’s really confusing for normal people to hear genocide-deniers talk.
New_Breadfruit5664@reddit
Yeah whoever wrote that headline probably had a stroke lol
Ready_Substance8456@reddit
Its the auto translation of twitter or X
ZedGenius@reddit
Kemal Mamdaturk or something idk not from new york
Jazzlike-Moose3123@reddit
When it comes to things with Turks westerners always discuss the outcome not how things got there.
When reading history, one must also look at other events of the period.
On April 25, 1915, we were fighting for our lives in Gallipoli. The landings had begun; we were being occupied. At the same time, Armenians were collaborating with the Russians, aiming to establish a "Greater Armenia." They were carrying out massacres, and there weren't enough soldiers to suppress these events. Consequently, the Tehcir (Relocation and Resettlement) Law was enacted on May 27, 1915.
Then people ask, "Oh, why did the deportation happen?" Well, why do you think it happened? There was a clear attempt to take advantage of the situation we were in. For some reason, this aspect isn't discussed much. If it comes up, mention this side of it too. There was a clear case of being stabbed in the back.
AbbreviationsOk1999@reddit
Did Armenians side with Russians? Yes. Why? Because the Turkish majority within the Empire started to turbo discriminate against Christians.
And what is the Turkish response? Genocide 1.5 million people. Even going to a point to fully exterminate the Armenian population. That's some sick mindset of the Young Turks.
Jazzlike-Moose3123@reddit
We didnt kill 1.5 million people there werent even that many armenians in turkey at that time.
Germans put people into ovens to mass murder them. A crumbling empire all gone not even enough soldiers to face the invading forces and they efficiently somehow killed 1.5 people? where are the mass graves? all evidence is reports written by people trying to get a big slice from a dying country.
Long before that armenians started acting together with russians starting in 19th century.
They are still under russian influence today. Their current prime minister is trying to change things. Its a land locked country built everything on this victim mentality.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
There were 2 Million Armenians, 1.2-1.5 Million were killed
Jazzlike-Moose3123@reddit
No.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
Yes actually, the Ottomans would undercount Armenians due to the Armenian Question
Cattovosvidito@reddit
You know Hitler referenced the Armenian Genocide as a blueprint for the Holocaust right？
BrokeAndroidGuy@reddit
The Armenians were apart of the Ottomans for nearly 400 years. They were treated better then other Christian nations at the time and they were allowed to build their own churches. There was no racism or religion involved in this conflict
AntiKouk@reddit
Mate all Christians were by definition second class citizens.
BrokeAndroidGuy@reddit
Can u tell me another country at that time that didn't consider foreigners as second class citizens. Christians were considered second class citizen in other Christian countries aswell.
AntiKouk@reddit
The Christians were foreigners to where?? Define how they were foreigners.
BrokeAndroidGuy@reddit
Bruh. Do you know what a foreigner even means? Forgieners mean a person that is from another country.People back then didn't see a person from another country as an equal. If u were a Greek man that was Christian and u decided to immigrate to the Ottoman empire even if u decided to become Muslim u still wouldn't be treated as a first class citizen. Same thing vice versa.
AntiKouk@reddit
You are everything wrong with the Turkish world view. Anatolian Greeks and Armenians in East Turkey had been there thousands of years but because they were within that is today modern turkeys borders they were foreigners? Simply because they didn't turkify over time? Ottoman state was not an ethnostate it was an empire. People it ruled over outside of Turks were conquered people living in their ancestral lands. They were treated as second class citizens in those same lands. They were not foreigners. They are now too Turkey BECAUSE it was ethnically cleansed through forced migration and genocide. Turkey has to reconcile with it's past and you have to educate yourself
BrokeAndroidGuy@reddit
You don't get what im trying to say. U are trying to portay the Ottoman Empire as a devil of all empires that treats everyone like shit except the turks. I just used a Greek person as an example but this applies to every person of a foreign nation or a foreign race. So what im trying to say here is that it didn't matter if the Armenians were Christian or Muslim they would still be defined as second class citizens even if it was another race instead of the Armenians they would still be second class and the same thing would apply to every empire/country before the 20th century.
AntiKouk@reddit
Well yes empires are built on subjugation and exploitation. But for example in Britain arguing today that the empire was good for India would be a very fringe position. So we both agree that subjects outside of the core ethnicity were treated as such, and I was obviously not talking exclusively about the Armenians, Balkans obviously rebelled for the same reasons as well as the Arabs.
Calling them foreigners is highly revisionist though and it's important to make it clear that they were far from.
Stock-Schedule-6274@reddit
you do know that russia,england,france,germany had already abolished slavery when even at the end of the ottoman empire slavery was not abolished?Ottoman empire could not evolve that is why she was the sick man of europe
BrokeAndroidGuy@reddit
Why are u trying to counter me with another fact that isn't related to the question. Im talking about how u wouldn't be treated better in other Christian countries based on your religion.
muformoon@reddit
The man from a country with no mosques spoke.
AntiKouk@reddit
Shift the discussion sure
Rare_Exit@reddit
1914-1919, in the Ottoman Parliament, there were approximately 20 Armenian MPs out of a total of roughly 275 seats, half of them were Turkish background, the rest were Arap, Kurd, Greek(I think couple of them were later in Greek parliment), Jewish and Armenian. High-ranking officials included Oskan Mardikian, Communication Minister and Gabriel Noradoungian, Foreign Minister. So can you please tell us how they were "turbo discriminated"?
Spiritual_Tough_5490@reddit
Hamidian Massacres
latte-cafe10452@reddit
"Greater Armenia" plan ? Look for the Armenian map pre-1915 and what it is now. I think you mean "Greater Turkey" plan
FickleChange7630@reddit
A Turk and a Japanese person walk into a bar, who can deny their nations war crimes better?
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
There was also a campaign of mass killing taking place during the same period. While young Turkish men were occupied with World War I, Armenian militias armed by the Russian army raided defenseless Turkish villages and carried out large-scale massacres. In this way, an ethnically cleansed region could more easily be turned into a Greater Armenian state. In Eastern Anatolia, 523,000 Turks and Kurds were killed during those years.
Of course, a human life is only considered valuable if the person is not Turkish. A murdered Turk might as well be thrown away.
Sasayego@reddit
Come on arent we used to the hypocrasy and two facedness of the West already? They are like this since the beginning of the rupublic lol.
Moonbeam1184@reddit
My Turkish brothers, most of these people's of this subreddit doesn't care about our opinion. So I see no reason to convince them or talk to them. WW1 was bad and it should never happen again and that's about it. Hope we can stop talking about this nonsense every dawn year.
College-throwaway146@reddit
I'll keep talking about it because my grandfather was a victim, not some random ancestors who has no connection to me.
Cope
Moonbeam1184@reddit
Yea your grandfather was, not you. So stop continuing the hate.
Urayami@reddit
I wonder does anyone read papers about '' Armenian Genocide'? Does anyone visited northeast anatolia? Do really know what happened? Because there is lots of papers about it. Its not political issue its historical issue. I think we let historians solve it so we can know the truth.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
Yeah, the historians say it was a genocide.
Urayami@reddit
Also historians says it wasnt i can also name most succesfull ones like Bernard Lewis, Stanford shaw, Maxime Gauin. Thats why i say let historians should talk about it not politicians
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
Saying historians don’t agree isn’t really accurate tho. You can name a few people like Bernard Lewis, Stanford Shaw, or Maxime Gauin, but those are exceptions, not the majority view. The broader academic consensus across many countries and institutions is that the events of the Armenian Genocide constitute genocide, based on a wide range of sources, not just one perspective. Historians have already been studying and debating this for decades using Ottoman archives, foreign diplomatic records, and eyewitness accounts. So it’s not that historians haven’t talked about it, it’s that most of them have already reached similar conclusions. That’s why the issue goes beyond politics and is treated as a well established historical case/fact in mainstream scholarship. Some of you really don't understand this. I can play your game and cite Taner Akçam who is a Turkish historian who recognizes it and advocates for recognition.
Urayami@reddit
I am not playing a game i cus say NY city governor shouldnt play Genocide card for getting elected again. Cus im sure he doesnt know shit about it
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
That I agree with, but saying let the historians sort it out when the vast majority have is also wrong
Urayami@reddit
Do always majorty right? Is it science? Lol
Urayami@reddit
And we should what happened after they say it wasnt Genocide. Check Stanford shaw.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
Well yeah, it is the vast majority, wtf are you on
Thialaz@reddit
As a Turkish person.
Fuck those morons.
Why is it that every country always thinks other genocides happened, but the one THEIR country committed NEVER happened. Just about all countries lose their shit and refuse to take accountability.
Tukaya3@reddit
Because the thing that happened doesn't fit the term genocide people telling it like one day the Turks woke up and decided to kill armenians
At that time of the war there were many conflicts and having the armenians at that region caused many problems because of the armenian rebel groups or them working with the russians on the east side so the Ottomans decide to relocate them
Yes the conditions of the relocation could be better having more food etc.. I am not denying there wasn't any armenian casualitys but no one is talking about the Turks that died because of the armenians whcih started this whole thing even some historians saying over 400k Turks were killed by that so its not like a genocide where they were killing a race for no reason or just for the hate and saying its a genocide is nonsense
Federal_War_8272@reddit
This is literally what my history teacher told us and i nearly got detention for talking back and telling the truth
Tukaya3@reddit
Because this is the truth
Thialaz@reddit
This is exactly what I mean. "Every genocide happened except the one we committed".
fuck off man. Just fuck off.
Sick and tired of hearing about how humanities evils only exist in OTHER countries except "ours".
Every country always comes with some excuse as to why what they did WASN'T a genocide. Or how their country DIDN'T commit unspeakable cruelty.
Tukaya3@reddit
But it wasn't a genocide?
Do you know the definition of a genocide it was a poorly executed relocation many of them died because of diseases lack of clothing stuff like that
Tukaya3@reddit
Also saying 1.5 million armenias died simply can't be true at that time the total populaiton was around 20 million and while being in a active world war you cant just kill about %10 of your countrys population you simply dont have that much resources or time
Pikakaminari@reddit
First they should, then we would. I don't agree with you at all. Protesters are right, worse has happened to turks but no one screams for them? No one wants to condemn a nation/race for what they have done to turks? Why should I accept when they can't even take you serious when you talk about it?
Ndr2501@reddit
"Worse has happened to Turks." Really? Which country killed hundreds of thousands of Turkish civilians civilians by marching them through the desert, men women, children and old people until they starved to death?
fikriminincegolu@reddit
Did you hear the thing called Balkan Wars before?
Total-Employment-479@reddit
They were literally under turkish occupation, are you dense or something?
fikriminincegolu@reddit
Under the occupation of who? Ottomans or civilians? There is no love for the ottoman state here brother, you can count on that. But killing hundreds of thousands who had nothing to do with state affairs in the name of vengeance is a crime. Just because the people you massacre talks or looks like the enemy doesn't make them occupiers.
And before you ask, i think of the same way about ottoman armenians.
Total-Employment-479@reddit
Try again to type without being racist
Total-Employment-479@reddit
"worse thing has happened to turks" Nope, you are using same talking points like israel is doing. Does what happened on october 7th justify what israel is doing to Palestinians? Nope. If turks wouldn't occupy and be racist against all its neighbour, they would have no problems. Also I see you are literally racist against Kurds like a typical turk so no reason to talk to a braindead turk nationalist like you.
fikriminincegolu@reddit
Are you the worst kind of retarded or what? First of all, israeli government wants every single non-jewish person out of their "promised land". Ottomans never did that. Ottoman state was a multi national empire with a system called "millet" to govern all the people they rule. Occupation doesn't mean oppression by any means and that was the ottoman way. That's how they managed to keep the Pax Ottomana for more than 400 years in the Balkans. Every non muslim nation had their own laws, own jurisdiction, right to practice their religion and right to speak their own language. That's much more than israel had offered to the arabs and that's why they can't stop fighting for a single week while the ottomans ruled the Balkans for centuries.
I didn't say a single word on Kurds, genius. And you accused me on being racist against Kurds on what account, i don't know and i really don't care. My wife is a Kurd, and this makes my daughter is half Kurdish so don't force your single brain cell on the matters you would never ever understand.
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule 1 of r/AskBalkans "Keep it civil". Depending on the severity of this violation, you may be banned.
If not, try to refrain from using this type of language.
Lively discussion is alright, but personal attacks, insults, hate, chauvinism and/or bigotry towards other users or their input will not be tolerated.
Cheers.
Total-Employment-479@reddit
Does october 7 justify what Israel has done to Palestine? Of course not but you use same talking points like Israel does by saying "worse has happened to turks"
xXbabyangelXx@reddit
I hate that everyone standing up to this behavior is being downvoted. Armenians were literally massacred, raped, and tortured widely during this genocide and they keep denying it then turning it back around on Armenians. Thank you for speaking up for us. They're insane.
Potential-Run-6540@reddit
You moron go learn about these:
* Greek Occupation of Western Anatolia
* Balkan wars
* Eastern Anatolia and the Caucasus (1914–1920)
Pikakaminari@reddit
Soviets. Soviets killed tons of kazakh turks, and azerbaijani turks. Chinese still kill and treat uyghur turks terribly. Greeks did so many stuff during conquest of izmir/smyrna. Cyprus had similiar issue as well. Bulgarians force assimilated every turk there is, forced them to change their religion and their names. Arabs backstabbed us during call for jihad(a muslim can't decline a jihad call.) and many of them killed, raped and done terrible stuff to Turks before and at that time. And for the last, literally your country impaled turks, romanians and other balkan ethnicities just because of his hatred towards us which some of you still see him as hero. I could go on but It's not worth it, you won't even agree on anyways.
And we had to march them, don't talk about things you don't know romanian boy. Otherwise they would've done worse. Armenians hurt turks(there are tons of confirmed and folk sources, my friends grandma was almost being kidnapped for example.), turks hurt armenians the only winners were the nations that funded and made them rebel(russia, uk france) there wouldn't even be armenian rebels if russia didn't meddle in. Read some history on why it happened rather than what happened more. Each country has their crimes but you only focus on which you hate.
Zealousideal_Fox3012@reddit
same
Kerbalgalactic@reddit
When it comes to genocides, i believe that western states are the very last people who should be speaking on the matter. They are completely hypocritical
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
All of these states comitted genocide, they are all hypocrites
muformoon@reddit
He blatantly lied by claiming there were Turkish soldiers in Karabakh. Someone in his position simply cannot tell such a ridiculous lie. Furthermore, there is no connection between 1918 and Karabakh. Karabakh was already recognised worldwide as Azerbaijani territory and was under Armenian occupation. It’s just populist nonsense.
Infinite-Rate9398@reddit
Dude. Armenians weren't in Eastern Anatolia in the 1920's because they became part of the Soviet union. Wtf are you talking about?
muformoon@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kars_(1920)
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
Kars was under the russian empire, then armenia, then the armenians were expelled
College-throwaway146@reddit
Saying Karabakh was under Armenian occupation is like saying Mexico was under Aztec occupation
Spiritual_Tough_5490@reddit
"Furthermore, there is no connection between 1918 and Karabakh"
1918 was when Azerbaijan first attacked Armenians in Karabakh, after the collapse of the Russian and Ottoman empires left the Caucasian states independent. This got frozen when USSR took over.
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
Turks really need to have a conversation about denying the armenian genocide
chrstianelson@reddit
There is a big misunderstanding around this topic, I feel.
Turks don't deny the events of 1915. They acknowledge the massacres and the suffering. Erdogan sends a message to the Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople every year on April 24th expressing condolences and honouring Armenian-Ottomans who lost their lives, which is read at memorial service at the the Holy Hakob Church in Istanbul.
What Turks deny is the term "genocide". Turkish Foreign Ministry website has a statement about this. And if I can play the devil's advocate for a moment, their argument isn't completely without merit.
And to muddy the waters even worse, up to 15 million ethnic Germans were cleansed from Eastern Europe post-WW2 in what is the largest ethnic cleansing in history. Nearly 1-2 million people died as a result of violence, starvation and forced labour.
Yet that event is considered "expulsion" while the other is "genocide".
Why?
Angelically_@reddit
Truth is most of these people don't give a rat's ass about those who passed away, it's only used as a political tool or a gotcha nowadays, so much for the supposed respect and commemoration right?
If Armenians didn't cling so hard onto this one specific event a century ago and spam it to maintain some relevancy and identity in our day we wouldn't have dismissive attitudes and could engage in respectful debates and understanding. Second truth is the people who spent 9 seconds reading headlines and yell "ARMENIAN GENOCIDE" moment they see a Turk is the cause for the counter-kneejerk reaction of "didn't happen." because there's only so many times people can try to actually force something down your throat before you get sick of it, setting aside the logic of it all in the first place.
I will be 100% blunt and truthful here, at first I was genuinely concerned and did actual research so I could learn the truth best I could and inform others if I can. People aren't willing to be convinced, you will see those words regardless, all it takes is for some dumbass to see the word "Turk" even randomly to start acting like a parrot, it's actual ragebait at this point. So now I don't give a shit either, the words "Armenian genocide" were parroted needlessly and meaninglessly to me so many times they lost the impact and value they once held and should have had for everyone, now when I read this post's title I thought "Again with this?" because I'm exhausted and only shred of concern I have is what if my current apathy turns into irritation and then hatred gradually? Was this all too harsh? I'd think so, but this is what I was pushed into feeling over time and I'm tired of not expressing it and being pushed further and further.
College-throwaway146@reddit
Lmao why would an Armenian not cling so hard to this?
My grandfather died not being able to be buried in his native land that he had to leave as a child. He lost his mother and some siblings in the genocide. Had to watch (with his father) as Turkish gendarmes raped three of his sisters. Lost contact with a brother for some years until they were able to find him again. Escaped death on multiple occasions.
His kids were born as the sons of a refugee in a foreign land they had no real ties to, and which in any case they had to leave with the whole family again because of civil war. Extended family on every continent. I write this from the fourth country my immediate family has lived in (if we count #1 as his homeland), so tell me what the hell is our identity without the genocide?
Being ejected from your home after losing your family, having your country destroyed and becoming increasingly accustomed to finding less and less people who can speak your native language fluently. How would you not consider the genocide to be a core aspect of what made you who you are?
And I guess it hurts Turks' feelings (sorry?) that we bring this up incessantly, but do they ever think about the humiliation of not having a country? Of losing your language? Of feeling like the last echoes of your grandfather's homeland die with you? Do you realize what it feels like to be in a 111-year state of stasis, of having to preserve and feel personally responsible for maintaining your culture?
Plutarch_von_Komet@reddit
The reason they are still denying it is because in their minds they "won". Do you think Germany would acknowledge the Holocaust if they didn't lose WW2?
College-throwaway146@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Ujemegaz@reddit
What happened to Armenians was similar with Cam Albanians. Armenians collaborated with Russians and got expelled and killed. Only the scale is different.
Ok_Tie_7564@reddit
The scale matters.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Genocide is genocide, regardless of the scale.
menteto@reddit
Of course but it would be unfair to compare one to another when the scale difference is huge.
Ujemegaz@reddit
It is the principle of recognition. You can't deny one and aknowledge the other.
menteto@reddit
No one is denying anything.
xXbabyangelXx@reddit
The 1.5 Armenians killed + many more affected did not collaborate with anyone nor did they deserve what happened to them. Please don't listen to this person spreading misinformation.
Few_Concentrate_6708@reddit
youre right that there was no big armenian revolte. However 1. i did not claim that and 2. some did rise up but it was 20,000 out of 2,1M people. Not even 1 percent. Killing 1,5M people because 20,000 rose up is of course not justifiable.
Few_Concentrate_6708@reddit
greece called the cam albanian issue non existent.
menteto@reddit
I meant no one from the comment section hes replying to.
reflectioNNNNN@reddit
Nah, thats your tactic. u guys tried invade Anatolia and when you lost it became genocide. And when we say this, you guys say "Anatolia was never yours" or "It doesn't belong to you anyways". So it was war? We deny it not because "we won", because it wasn't "holocaust." Why does nobody mention that before all these events, Armenians raided Turkish villages and killed people? Of course i'm not saying the massacres or deaths that happened during that period should have happened. But we are tired of you portraying yourselves as angels internationally while demonizing Turks. Same thing happened in Cyprus too. You guys were killing Turk civilans there to force to move from there and reduce the population of them. Turkey, as a guarantor state, carried out the operation and took %40 of the island in 3 days. (The proportion of the Turkish population on the island) And before the operation Turkey seeked diplomatic solutions with England. (other guarantor state) But since they didn't care what happens in there, Turkey had to do it. But it is illegal to you right?
As the Ottoman lost wars and territory, many Turkish civilians were killed. if the theory you mentioned were true, we’d be talking about these things all the time, just like you do.
"The massacre in Morea had stopped because there were no more Turks left to kill." That's a quote from a Greek documentary. You probably know it already.
Plutarch_von_Komet@reddit
Listen, just because my nation did committed massacres or acts of ethnic cleansing in the past doesn't mean I can't point out that you did it, and neither does it make me a hypocrite. And of course I support neither my nation not doing much to acknowledge them nor the acts themselves. If you wrote this list of unrelated massacres as an attempt to imply that I can't point out that your behavior towards the Armenian genocide is wrong then no one can ever do. If I was French would you have tried to rebuke me by pointing to the massacres of the Haitians during the Haitian revolution and their lack of recognition for it? Or if I was an American would you have mentioned the Native Americans? I can say that your country is wrong to not recognize that a century ago it committed a genocidal act, even if unfortunately similar acts are not recognized in mine
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
You have a point but they did not win and the genocide is well documented so they should just accept it
Erozbey@reddit
It’s a tit-for-tat situation. The documented massacres committed against Turks are obvious. Admit it, and it will be recognized. If it’s a massacre committed against Turks, but a genocide committed by Turks, then go ahead and keep calling it a denial.
Infinite-Rate9398@reddit
Can you provide a source for when Armenians massacred Turks?
Proof-Character-9350@reddit
If you follow the link with the argument between erozbey and abject_fun, he sent some links. I didn’t read them myself or anything. But they might be useful for you.
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
What happened to all of the armenian aserrians and greeks living în the otoman empire?
Erozbey@reddit
Whatever happened to the Turks who were driven from their homes—or even killed in their own villages—is exactly what happened to them. "A massacre", as everyone says—or whatever else you want to call it.
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
A massacre would imply a spontanious and isolated/rogue act. Not repeated wide spread and gouverment aproved as it was
Erozbey@reddit
If you can be objective about Armenians or others, then you can also be objective about the Turks who were killed in their own villages—killed systematically and repeatedly—before that. Furthermore, you cannot claim that what happened in the Balkans just happened spontanious and isolated/rogue act. This is quite clear and straightforward.
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
It was not isolated it was gouverment aproved genocide that was my whole point. Do the numbers of turks killed even come close to the number of armenians killed? Why do you call what happened to the armenians just a massacre?
Erozbey@reddit
If you truly believe that 1.5 million Armenians were killed, then of course you can’t compare the two. It is generally accepted that 300,000 to 600,000 Turks were killed in the Eastern provinces alone. Nearly 1 million Turks died in the Balkans, and 4 to 5 million fled to save their lives. It’s impossible to arrive at exact numbers, but it’s clear that the numbers have been dramatized for propaganda purposes. You’re free to believe what you want; I respect that. I’d like to discuss history clearly, but no event can be viewed in black and white.
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
There is not one source for the numbers you are claming meanwhile the armenian genocide is well documented by even germans would you be more clear with sources and the time framein which the turks died?
Erozbey@reddit
I’ll leave that up to you. You can find books on this and access the documents held in government archives.
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
So just to be clear. Was it or was it not a genocide?
Erozbey@reddit
Yeah, of course.
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
I mean what happened to the armenians
ExpensiveNet59@reddit
Was what happened to Turks was a genocide or not? Or were they completely normal since they were done to those barbarian Turks?
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
So you would recognize one but not the other?
ExpensiveNet59@reddit
Did i said anything about Armenian one?
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
That was my whole point
ExpensiveNet59@reddit
Still hasnt answered my question, thats crazy lol.
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
You have not answered my question. I am not whiling to indulge your claim if you deny the armenian genocide
ExpensiveNet59@reddit
It happened. Nothing justifies death of innocent civillians. I am fine with acknowledging it. But are you fine with acknowledging what happened to Turks was a genocide? Or you gonna deny or deflect it again?
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
Give sources
ExpensiveNet59@reddit
Reality part 2:
7 Jan 1915, Armenians Fight For Russia, Reno Evening Gazette London
8 Jan 1915, Armenians Join Russians: Detachment of Volunteers Arrives at Tiflis for Army Service, Indianapolis Star
8 Jan 1915, From America To Fight: Detachment of Armenians Welcomed Enthusiastically at Tiflis, New York Times
12 Jan 1915, The Armenian Red Cross: To The Editor Of The Times, The Times London
12 May 1915, Armenians in Van Rise in Arms Against Turks, Washington Times
29 Sep 1915, Armenians' Own Fault, Bernstorff Now Says: They Brought Reprisals on Themselves by Trying to Stir Up Rebellion Against Turkey
9 Oct 1915, Why We Aid Armenians: Reventlow Says It's Because We're Bought by Anglo-French Gold, New York Times
15 Oct 1915, The Kind of Armenians a Turk Knows: They Betray Their Rulers, Take Refuge in Christian Missions, and Have to be Dealt With as Dangerous Rebels, New York Times
22 Oct 1915, Accuse Armenians Of Wronging Turks: Russian Troops Linked with Greek and Armenian Civilians as the Perpetrators, New York Times
14 Nov 1915, America and the Armenians, Reno Evening Gazette
22 Nov 1915, Rebel Turk For Armenians: Djemal Pasha Orders Two of Their Oppressors Hanged, New York Times
22 Feb 1916, The Armenians Kill Turks, Manitoba Free Press
24 Feb 1916, Russians Win Van District, New Oxford
31 Aug 1917, Armenians Go To Europe To Fight For The Allies, Racine Journal
4 Apr 1918, Erzerum Taken, Oakland Tribune
29 Jun 1918, Armenians Tell of Victory, New York Times
5 Oct 1918, Armenian Volunteers In Victory Over Turks, Nevada State Journal
14 Dec 1918, Appeals To Armenians Of The World For Help: Head of Armenian Army Wants Aid of Countrymen to Set Up New Nation, Out For Independence, Fort Wayne, Indiana
30 Jan 1919, The Rights Of Armenia: To The Editor Of The Times, Times of London
27 Mar 1919, Here's the Story of Armenia, The Country That Wants U.S. as Its Protector Against Hun, Miami Metropolis
14 Apr 1919, Turks Hang Kemal Bey for Armenian Massacres, New York Times
5 May 1919, Massacre of Jews, Evening Post
19 Mar 1920, Armenians Accused of Massacre, The Times London
19 Apr 1920, French Attempt To Invest Asia Minor Is Frustrated By Turks: Armenian Volunteers Who Make Landing Possible Are Wiped Out, San Antonio Light
14 May 1920, Van Nuys Man Assists In Welcome To Armenian Hero, Van Nuys News
15 Jul 1920, Armenians Attack Turks, Fort Wayne Journal-Gazette
12 Oct 1920, Armenians Attack Turks and Tartars, Daily Northwestern
14 Nov 1920, Armenians Complain of French, New York Times
Feb 1922, Titled Armenian Will Reach City On Great Mission, Republican and Times
18 Sep 1922, Relief Man Tells Tragedy, New York Times
ExpensiveNet59@reddit
Buraya kadar gören Türk varsa alın görün bu orospu çocuklarının nasıl bu Ermeni olaylarını yalnızca kendi Türk düşmanlıklarını saklamak için kullandıklarını
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
The brain damage must be hard to live with. Most of these sources are from the 1920s and not from during the war and you are trying to justifiy the genocide because some armenians joined russia while ingnoring the treatment of the armenians within the empire and the armenians who fought for the otomans. Really you might need a brain asap
ExpensiveNet59@reddit
Thats the only thing you can come up with? Bahahahaha😂😂 I never justified any genocide but you are denying one right know and its quite funny to make you guys a genocide denier like that. Didnt happen but if it did, they deserved it huh😂
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
Must be nice being being an idiot
ExpensiveNet59@reddit
Didnt happen but they deserved it😂😂😂😂
ExpensiveNet59@reddit
Hahahaha, i knew you was doing all these just to deny it, at least it became clear now.
29 July 1890, Fighting In Constantinople: The Armenian Patriarch Mobbed - Soldiers and Rioters Killed, New York Times
5 Sept 1890, An Armenian Revolt, The Morning Call, San Francisco
9 Sep 1890, Armenians Kill Soldiers, Davenport Morning Tribune, Iowa
18 Jan 1894, President Cleveland and the Armenians, New York Times
29 Jul 1894, Revolutionary Armenians: They Have a Parade and Listen to Speeches Against Turkish Rule, New York Times
25 Apr 1895, The Armenian Massacre: Were the Stories of Atrocities Only Fabrications?, Daily Bulletin
23 Aug 1895, The Sassoun Massacre: Proof of the Assertion that Armenian Revolutionists Caused It, New York Times
23 Sep 1895, The Armenian Question: England and America Cannot Afford to Throw Stones, Says a Correspondent, New York Times
4 Oct 1895, The Turk's Side Of The Story: Armenians, It Is Asserted, Have Plotted to Arouse Sympathy, New York Times
11 Oct 1895, Armenian Riots, Clutha Leader
25 Oct 1895, Armenians Attack Turkish Villages, Newport Daily
25 Oct 1895, Armenians Were Responsible: Constantinople Riots Premeditated, Says A Correspondent - Provocation and Intimidation the Plan of the Revolutionists, He Thinks - English and American Opinion, New York Times
1 Nov 1895, Armenians In Revolt: Twenty-Six Thousand Christians In Rebellion, Guthrie Daily Leaders, Oklahoma
2 Nov 1895, Armenians in Revolt: Twenty-six Thousand In the Zeitoun Mountains Defy the Sultan, Centralia Enterprise and Tribune
2 Nov 1895, Attack the Turks: Armenians Begin A Religious Assault, Progress Review
2 Nov 1895, Aggressions of Armenians: Evidence of the Riots at Bitlis and Zeitoun Shows Premeditation, New York Times
3 Nov 1895, Turkey's Wily Subjects: False Information Circulated by the Armenian Agitators, New York Times
15 Nov 1895, Turkey's Ruling Terror: Mussulmans Implore the Porte for Protection from Armenians, New York Times
15 Dec 1895, Arms And Bombs For Zeitoun, New York Times
21 Dec 1895, A Massacre At Zeitoun: Insurgents Kill All Turkish Soldiers in Town Except Two, New York Times
14 Feb 1896, Turkish Amnesty To Zeitoun: Armenians Are Pardoned and a Christian Governor Is Promised, New York Times
11 Jun 1896, A Spy Assassinated, San Francisco Call
12 Sep 1896, Armenian Bomb Factory Found: Tunnel Was Being Driven Under a Government Arsenal, New York Times
23 Sep 1896, Armenian Bombs Exhibited, New York Times
24 Sep 1896, Sworn To Ruin The Porte: Armenian Societies Active In Constantinople, New York Times
10 Aug 1897, The Reported Armenian Aggression: Terrible Barbarities, Liverpool Courier
21 Aug 1897, The Bomb Outrage In Constantinople: Eight Armenians Arrested, Liverpool Courier
23 Aug 1897, The Bomb Outrages In Constantinople, Liverpool Courier
29 Sep 1897, The Recent Armenian Raid, Bristol Times and Mirror
17 Nov 1899, Armenians Attack Kurds: Bloody War Has Again Broken Out Near Erzeroum, Daily Gazette
Ujemegaz@reddit
Well, if you can't force them to accept, maybe they won afterall.
Plutarch_von_Komet@reddit
That's the unfortunate truth
Shoddy_Ad3490@reddit
Turks are one of the most racist people on Earth.
Cool_Penglin@reddit
No one existing rn is responsible for any war tragedies. İf you are still accusing us your reasons are racist. Look at your self from outside.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
We are accusing your country that denies it and practices cultural genocide.
SpartanKing76@reddit
Can’t lie - fuck Dr Oz.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
Frr
RestaurantBoring417@reddit
Turkish nationalists being pathetic crybabies while living abroad? Not the first time
Revolutionary-Gap886@reddit
Says the armenian? xD I think this deserves to be on some dictionary as the example of the word "irony"
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
Thats why there is the word nationalist, not your average turk, armenian or greek
Federal_War_8272@reddit
I find those people annoying as they tarnish our reputation in the world
reflectioNNNNN@reddit
Lol. You accidentally wrote "Turks" instead of "Greeks" or "Armenians"? Cuz thats all they do.
iambertan@reddit
I'd say it's all three. More radicalized on foreign territories and will absolutely refuse to update themselves.
Toonalicious@reddit
Trust me we turks dont like most of abroad living turks
VenPatrician@reddit
The deeply ingrained need of the Turkish gene to deny the Armenian Genocide while simultaneously endorsing it must be studied.
axpan23@reddit
These are the current borders of Armenia, and the red areas show Turkish populations. Today, no Turks live in Armenia, but in Azerbaijan and Turkey, thousands of Armenians live near the borders.
EarthTraditional3329@reddit
Population transfer. The rest left during the war or displaced, vice versa for Armenians in Azerbaijan.
College-throwaway146@reddit
Ok now show us what happened to the Armenians in Baku, Sumqayit, etc.
ILikeCucumbers01@reddit
"My people got killed so there's no way yours got killed!"
busystepdad@reddit
Ah I see you don't bother to check what happened to them. there was a population swap in 1990-1991.
__trollaway69@reddit
there was population swap to fit modern borders like turkey/greece
Infinite-Rate9398@reddit
There are a max of maybe a hundred Armenians living in Azerbaijan right now. I have no clue where you pulled your statistic from. There are no Azerbaijanis today in Armenia because of the population exchange in the 1990's, where Armenians were expelled from Azerbaijan and Azerbaijanis were expelled from Armenia. Mediocre attempt at propaganda
GothcuSelimPasha@reddit
Who's "denying & endorsing" it? I've only seen either one of them.
Ok-Priority253@reddit
So far literally every Turk I've talked to about it. They start out denying it, then if you talk to them it moves more either to "yeah but they killed turks so it makes sense we wiped them out" or "it didn't happen but it should have". Same exact thing with holocaust-deniers and all other similar idiots really
GothcuSelimPasha@reddit
"It didn't happen but it should have" isn't really "denying and endorsing" as the original commenter says, is it? Given that you cannot endorse something that didn't happen?
Ok-Priority253@reddit
This is one of the dumbest comments I have read on this site dude
KillerNail@reddit
The "didn't happen but they deserved it" is just one big goomba fallacy that has been going for so long that even some of the Turkish youth started adopting it in the recent years. You can't find a single Turk irl that has that opinion aside from ones that adopted it from the internet memes. The closest thing is "didn't happen but I wish it did".
EKrug_02_22@reddit
IT'S FUCKING JOKE. IT'S TO TRIGGER ARMENIANS AND GREEKS FOR BRINGING IT TO FUCKING EVERYWHERE LIKE EVEN UNDER FUCKING BAKLAVA OR CAT VIDEOS. NOBODY THINKS OR SAYS IT SERIOUSLY.
What Turks say is;
"They died, but it wasn't genocide, because purpose was NOT to kill them."
They were literally forcibly moved from one side of the empire TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SAME FUCKING EMPIRE.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide_survivors#/media/File:US_State_Department_document_on_Armenian_Refugess_in_1921.jpg
Here 800k refugees JUST IN HALEPPO.
580k from the REST OF THE EMPIRE.
Total them. 800k + 500k= FUCKING 1.300.000. Their total population was around that already.
192k people died in armenia BECAUSE OF TYPUS;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide_survivors#:\~:text=An%20estimated%20350%2C000,citation%20needed%5D
This is just one AMERICAN document that taken from british a.k.a enemy back in the day.
GothcuSelimPasha@reddit
That's what was my experience about it too. It's like Mandela Effect in my opinion.
MustardJar4321@reddit
Its not a "gene" its government propaganda
MeetingImpressive689@reddit
Of course they would, they were the Israel of the 1900's
charlie_chapel_666@reddit
Don't they support the genocide too..
name---@reddit
If you live in a foreign country, especially if you were born in one, I don’t think you get to protest representing your origin country. As a Turkish man living and studying in Germany, I sure as shit wouldn’t. And I actually spent 18 years of my life in Turkey.
Besides that, it’s such a nothinburger thing to protest about. The Armenian Genocide is not something I much give a shit about, we certainly don’t see the brits or the French doing anything about their great grandfathers genocides, why should I give a shit.
Hell my great grandfather died in Gallipoli, so I have even less connection to what happened in the east.
Spiritual_Tough_5490@reddit
The government of Turkey has been very involved in NYC PR, so it's possible this is them again. They were bribing the previous mayor for example.
Ok-Exchange2711@reddit
Didn’t Mamdani also talk shit about Atatürk? He’s literally trying his best to make Turkish people his enemy lol. (That said, I do support their right to protest.)
Spiritual_Tough_5490@reddit
Somehow Turkey is a topic in NYC politics, cause they were paying bribes to the previous mayor.
KillerPalm@reddit
Damn what did he say about Ataturk?
TheSocDem@reddit
Nothing, he just implied he disliked Atatürk.
urhiteshub@reddit
Why would anyone care if Mamdani doesn't like Ataturk. He probably has elementary knowledge of Turkish history at best, and it's not like there aren't any legitimate reasons to dislike Ataturk for those with a certain set of principles.
menina2017@reddit
Exactly Muslims in America certainly don’t learn much about ataturk at all
JaysonTatecum@reddit
Also… 2013?
A) he was 21
B) he wasn’t even a politician yet lmao
Feeling_Hotel8096@reddit
Well Ataturk was against Political Islam and is the father of democracy in Turkey, so being against him just brings up more questions.
Berawholoves42069@reddit
Thats like 13 years ago, also why wouldnt he like ataturk, he was furthest from a far right wing
menina2017@reddit
I feel like Muslims in America don’t learn much about ataturk at all . Only superficial stuff that he supresssed religion etc. they learn a very one sided narrative of ataturk
Ok-Exchange2711@reddit
He said during the 2013 Gezi protests that he supports the Turkish people, but that continuing Mustafa Kemal Atatürk’s legacy raises serious concerns.
KillerPalm@reddit
Hmm curious to what exactly he means by that.
RatioOk515@reddit
Probably nothing good.
BangingRooster@reddit
It's not a genocide
InfernalVelocity@reddit
After reading all the comments from Turkish genocide advocates here I am really surprised Turks from Turkey and Israelis aren't great friends.
Both Turks and Israelis committed a genocide of their indigenous populations and deny it, say it ewas necessary and call them "terrorists".
Which is funny because you have Turks who say Israeli's are committing a genocide getting all defensive the moment points out their history. All you have to do is swap out "Hamas" or "Hezbollah" out for "Armenian gangs" and Israeli propaganda reads the exact same as Turks justifying why they killed all the Armenians.
Prototype95x@reddit
Mamdani said no such thing, but if he did Turkey deserved it
DazzlingBasket4848@reddit
Ya Türkler salak ya. Ne yazikki toplunun büyük bir kısmı israeliler gibi beyin yıkamış bir durumda.
CaptainTurko@reddit
Armenian Incident in a nutshell:
-A party full of Turks and minorities(Albanians, Armenains, Greeks, Arabs, Jews) dethrone the padisah (Ittihat and Terakki party) -They join lots of wars and lose(Trablusgarp, Balkan Wars, WW1) -During war times, some Armenians influenced by Russians started forming paramilitary groups. They start attacking and pillaging Turkish villages. They killed lots of woman, children and elders meanwhile men are fighting at the front. There is multiple photos of them. There is one picture where one of the terrorist holding a fetus and another one holding a heart.(Couldnt find the exact source but its description: "Un groupe d'Arméniens, en uniformes divers, formé à Mus et Bitlis guidant les armées russes", you can google it) -Due to these massacres, inexperienced and illegitimate leaders(same party) who seized power by force implemented a poorly structured plan to relocate the Armenian people. With the flaws and lack of organization, it resulted in a lot of casualties.
TL;DR -A political party that had Turks and minorities in it dethrone govt, they lead an empire to a failure. -They can't defend its own people. Civillians get hurt in both sides. -Everyone is arguing about it, still.
My points: -Illegitimate leaders, not elected nor part of royalty -No clear intent of genocide(definition of genocide requires intent)(no govt document shows intent to kill, most genocides do) -It is two sided massacres, civillians are the victim unfortunately. -Bernard Lewis, Justin McCarthy, Guenter Lewy, Edward J. Erickson, Maxime Gauin, these are some of the historians who support the argument that Armenian incident wasn't a genocide and there was no intent, there was an armed revolt
Even if you have a complete different opinion, lets agree that there are a lot of propaganda and politics in this topic. Best strategy for the both parties would be historical research. I am ok to discuss this further whenever I get the time. I am sorry for all of the people who got hurt from this incident, no matter who you are. It is a historical tragedy. Not only Turks and Armenians, there were other people who got hurt too. May all of the civillian groups, especially Armenians and Turks, rest in peace.
LaManolos@reddit
Turks just Turking. Nothing new.
Smart_Pomegranate825@reddit
Isn't it Turkish genocide against Armenians?
menina2017@reddit
I wonder what Mamdani said.
stonedturtle69@reddit
Dumbasses
dallyan@reddit
Turks are stupidly nationalistic on this topic.
RealMrDudes@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
no1rezefan@reddit
siyah sancak is a far-right islamist anti-kemalist "news account" funded by the gov, but I support people's right to protest
Atlandios000@reddit
Greek here , asking just out of curiosity.
Where on the spectrum are the kemalists considered to be ?
VisibleReport5008@reddit
theres no certain thing for kemalism, changes through the needs of time. There is both left-kemalizm and right(more traditional one).
riverloves90s@reddit
You can't consider kemalism left. Its either centeric or right. Due to the "statism" and "nationalism" it can't be left. yes there are parts of it that can be considered left-leaning(populism especially) but overall its not left. It just has left leaning sides. Just like how social democracy can't be left either.
AnalWithCelenova_@reddit
Statism IS the reason it can be called left. It is literally a left wing economical system. “The state should make investments, build and maintain factories etc.” is literally what leftism suggests.
Belgraviana@reddit
Nationalism doesn’t exclude something from the left. Left wing nationalism is a major branch of the left, particularly in the developing world. And further nationalism arguably started in the left with the French Revolution
riverloves90s@reddit
I agree with the latter but there is also a difference between patriotism and nationalism and what I mean is race based nationalism that puts a race above another one
Belgraviana@reddit
Not all nationalism is ethnic nationalism though. Nationalism is at its core just a sense of identity with an imagined group whereas patriotism is normally associated with a state.
spawn139@reddit
Atatürk's nationalism is not based on ethnicity as you said. If you feel like Turk and can say i am Turk, that's all it needs. Its more of a uniter look rather then rave based one
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
VisibleReport5008@reddit
I didnt said its left i said it can be adapted to left like doğan avcıoğlu did for example. Like i said it changes through the needs of time.
riverloves90s@reddit
oh sorry abt that I got it wrong
VisibleReport5008@reddit
👍
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Kemalists are largely centre-focused.
Theres no real side that Kemalism specifically pulls to because Atatürk was against extremisms in all cases.
And every political direction claims to be kemalistic because Atatürk did substantial things for every political direction.
For example he has very radical leftist decisions, like keeping state-funded companies within the state, taking power away from ultra rich people and making wealthy living a standard for the working man
He funded multiple critical companies and factories and vehemently argued that the state should always be in control of the production of basic needs.
But he also had many rightist decisions, most notably the nationalist movement, language revolution, and so on İ dont think thats a secret everyone knows that.
For liberals he put individual freedom always above religious dogmas, thats where his secularization principles played a huge role.
For environmentalist he established the framework that would protect Turkeys forests and taigas against private investors, something that ersogan has recently abolished. One of the greatest acts of shame for our country.
So yeah, people feel like kemalism pulls to one way or the other but in reality it is its own center-category.
Razor_EDG@reddit
deposing religion is hardly a rightist thing, communist russia did so as well. id say he was central left or semi-auth left, as you said he did a lot of leftist reforms and in fact the constitution says turkey is a social democratic republic ,if i remember correctly.
and he didnt take power from rich man he in fact created a lot of the todays "white türk" families
actually i would say he is national socialist but in literal sense not nazi sense.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
And you think the communist didnt implement rightist ideologies? Where do you think the russification programme originated?
Ok ignore that: what do you think where the movements to create a nation based on common values come from?
Using labels like communist and socialist only marginalizes how much rightist rhetoric they used for their goals, its why anarchists and ancaps exists.
Theres no universal left or rights, you need both for a functional society. Only difference is how much of either side you want.
Razor_EDG@reddit
well russification is really unification, everyone being the same origin and same class which are leftist idealogies. it wasnt that russians are better than everyone else ,that would be rightism, but everyone is already a russian ,kinda simplifying here, that would be leftism. so when he deposed religion from state and called EVERYONE türk he was really just implementing leftist idealogies.
and there is a general metric for leftism and rightisim and that is revolutionarism or conservatism. if you are going in a direction that is opposite of current cultural values you are most likely leftist and if you are going in the direction of current culture you are probably rightist, if you are trying to amplify the culture beyond what it is you are far rightist. it doesnt seem to be perfect bu a metric i find reliable.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Jesus the blindness in that reply alone
"Everyone already a russian" is the most ignorant ass comment, at least research the topic before commenting that bs everyone was definetly NOT russian and ethnic based decisions shouldnt even be made in a "non-rightist" system
İ just threw up a little bit because of u
Razor_EDG@reddit
can you explain where did i make a mistake? wasnt whol socialist idealogy is that we are all equal and the application is that all cultures are being corrupted into a single one?
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
>be equal
>have russians be more equal than others
Can you really not see the issue in that orrr?
Razor_EDG@reddit
no i didnt observe that russians are prioritized against non-russians, from what i had saw the persecution was experienced by economic classes rahter than ethnicities
name---@reddit
Centre but some policies lean right some lean left. Depending on the interpretation they can go anywhere.
Sabeneben@reddit
I think Kemalism can be considered right-wing and Atatürkçülük can be considered centrist.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Atatürkçülük is just the purely Turkish word for "Kemalism"
Sabeneben@reddit
Nope it's not
Potential-Lab-2426@reddit
The most similar political movement with Ataturk's revolutions, ideas and visions is probably jacobinism. He did same things with smoother and gentler methods.
All Kemalists are not thinking the same think or have same vision with Atatürk. Some focus on nationalism more, some focus on laisisizm, some focus on etatism. In the end, Atatürk was very jacobinist man who affected by Rousseau mostly.
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
Everywhere. This is the right answer.
Kemalists can be fashist to democrats to commies. You have islamists, fashist, democrats and commies all supporting Atatürk. People interpret his legacy however they personally swing.
GothcuSelimPasha@reddit
That's because Ataturk forcefully integrated his 6 tenets as a state ideology and his followers continued to do so for a very long time. That's why there has been no way to even state your opinions without pledging alliance to Ataturk & his principles. In my point of view it feels like an oath of faith standing before the Spanish Inquisition; which is not very democratic, modern or humanitarian.
moroseali@reddit
Absurd claim to make given the ideology and actions of the party that has been ruling for 20something years now
GothcuSelimPasha@reddit
They still visit Ataturk's grave and address to him every once in a while, even if this is a symbolic approach, it is the result of decades worth of indoctrination and propaganda.
So much to the point you have to be a Kemalist by default and only have political stances under what its umbrella allows.
It is true that this indoctrination is slowly being destroyed, but I never claimed otherwise and it still partially exists.
funnylib@reddit
If by Kemalism you mean CHP, then they generally align themselves with European social democrats
-yuzenpipi@reddit
Every kemalist group lives in different spectrum. You can find extreme far right militarist kemalists or even extreme far left kinda commie kemalists. This is kinda fcked up situation because if someone says im kemalist but which side??
Even i have met a person was a far left kemalist and islamist (isis level)… strange times.
Lorumba@reddit
Thats beacuse right wing pushing the propaganda of Ataturk being turkist which is not the case since he used the term turk to create an umbrella nationality uniting the anatolia (whats left of it after ottomans) under one reoublic indivisible.
BulutAndFriends@reddit
Wait, fr? God damn it, so that's why most of the people I know admire and mourn Nihal Atsız while loving Atatürk (makes zero sense)
Lorumba@reddit
Atsız is just turkish hitler. Like the three pashas.
BulutAndFriends@reddit
atım nerde
Lorumba@reddit
Nihal no horse
dagli68@reddit
How is that even possible😭
Fit_Dinner6841@reddit
Thats how
y4dig4r@reddit
there's no way this isn't shitposting
Ninevolts@reddit
Yeah Ataturk famously hanged Jihadist leaders in the Republic era, like Iskilipli Atif. He would have annihilated the crap out of ISIS.
GothcuSelimPasha@reddit
İskilipli wasn't a Jihadist, he never called for a jihad. In fact, 4/5 of the jury that ordered for his execution hadn't received legal education. The only one who had, namely Necip Ali Bey, was the only guy who voted for 6 months prison for İskilipli.
Also using the term "Jihadist" in its modern sense for a time period set in 1920s is beyond fucking stupid as almost the entire Turkish population deemed the war as a jihad against the invasive kafirs during both WWI & War of Independence. Which makes your point absolutely idiotic.
bruhmanbruuh@reddit
Some Turks be doing anything but admiting that Ataturk, like any other dictator, murdered his opposition.
AFKE0@reddit
Once I saw a guy in Reddit saying Atatürk was some kind of an anarchist, and that was the reason he liked him.
yalnzaylak@reddit
They take a pragmatic approach and can say that Kemalism is a spectrum in itself. We have:
Center Kemalists
Left Kemalists
Right Kemalists
Kemalism with Islamic synthesis (most likely to be progressive Islam)
Anti-Imperialists
Kemalism supported by Aristocratic families
Light0fDesire@reddit
since when grey wolves are Kemalist?
yalnzaylak@reddit
Never, there could be right Kemalists who see themselves and their ideas close to grey wolves though. and vice versa. They completely clash with each other just like some other groups I mentioned. But people don't really care about hypocrises.
Light0fDesire@reddit
yea correct
yalnzaylak@reddit
u/Ninevolts Reddit ate your post bro you might want to resend it.
Ninevolts@reddit
Yazicioglu was the leader of the Alperens. Islamist Jihadist offshoot of grey wolves. They HATE Ataturk. Their current leader, Mustafa Destici, is in favor of a sharia rule.
Light0fDesire@reddit
Center. Not right, not left. All political parties trying to create another variations of Kemalism like right, left, liberal, because there is no place in politics without Atatürk in Türkiye.
But in reality Kemalism is none of them, it is the rule of Atatürk, and it includes some part from both right and left.
So, Kemalism was never right or left, but Kemalists could be right or left.
tabulasomnia@reddit
everywhere. kemalist means nothing more than followers of kemal, who was a lot more pragmatic than ideologically motivated.
I guess you can say kemalists are always nationalist, but there are progressive and regressive ways of being a nationalist.
SubstanceConsistent7@reddit
Kemalism defined nationalism much different than general nationalism. Your race or ethnicity does not matter in Kemalist nationalism, only how you identify yourself matters.
GothcuSelimPasha@reddit
The problem is unlike the Ottoman period which had a faith-based spectrum for its citizens, the early Turkish Republic didn't recognize the ethnicities living in it.
There were even horrible attempts to disregard the Kurdish etnicity by saying "they are mountain Turks" and the word Kurd was given because when walking on snow it made sounds like "kart, kurt".
I can give references for this.
tabulasomnia@reddit
that is the original definition of nationalism. now more specifically called civil/civic nationalism, it's the idea that the nation is comprised from the entire citizenry of a country. this is the idea that was born from the french revolution.
ethnonationalism is the compromised version of that ideal. it's an absurdity. it's race disguised as nation and racism cosplaying as patriotism.
Pyro-Bird@reddit
While civil/civic nationalism exists, ethnic nationalism is still alive and well toady. When people hear the world nationalism they think and mean Ethnic Nationalism.
tabulasomnia@reddit
unfortunately yes
SubstanceConsistent7@reddit
Yes, but when you say nationalism people perceive that as ethnonationalism because it is a much common form in todays world despite its absurdity.
tabulasomnia@reddit
yep, unfortunately you are right.
Amrasminyatur@reddit
Far-right for sure. When they say it's not far right, it's just a demagogy.
Genocide denial, systematic racism, state pragmatism. All of them are included.
They say it's leftist because it is secular.
dushmanimm@reddit
Right-wing. Current CHP isn't Kemalist, they are social democrats. There were left-wing intrepretations of Kemalism but they were a minority
More_Ad_5142@reddit
The words Kemalist (often viewed negatively and has a narrower follower base) and Atatürkçü - Atatürkist (often viewed positively and has a much broader appeal) are different. Kemalists are seen as hyper-secular, hyper-nationalist whereas Atatürkists are seen as mostly centrist and much less mellow.
Light0fDesire@reddit
centre. no left, no right, just in the right place.
Significant-Ad-7182@reddit
jaunmilijej@reddit
Kemalism is considered to be on the left side of the political spectrum.
tabulasomnia@reddit
in most of its instances, this is untrue. the only version of kemalism that could be remotely leftist was ecevit's chp (and then dsp) who famously defined his politics as nationalist left.
Significant-Ad-7182@reddit
Ecevit being leftwing nationalist is such a weird thing to think considering the other side of that coin.
dumandPC@reddit
This situation is kinda fucked up so if we make it clear:
Considering Mustafa Kemal is a good guy
Supporting Mustafa Kemal and his reforms but not all of them
Synthesis with your ideologies and congrats! Now you're a kemalist!
Atatürk's ideology was Radicalism which is more likely close to social liberalism. In today, his party CHP consider itself "center of the left" which is meaning social democracy. So basically historically --> Radicalism (pre soc-lib) today --> Soc-dem if we follows directly
no1rezefan@reddit
There's not a definitive answer since Ataturk's loved by most of the right and leftists here and they all call themselves Kemalist/Ataturkist
But if we take CHP's (founding party of tr founded by Ataturk) policies between 1920-2026 the average would be this
https://i.redd.it/d9km4ae1cqxg1.gif
Significant-Ad-7182@reddit
They are kinda weird. Economically left wing but socially right wing with a pinch of staunch secularism.
So in a way you could call them secular national socialists. As far as I know they aren't racists like literal Nazis, they just want a powerful Turkish state and they believe a strong economy is one with a healthy amount of government oversight.
I might be wrong though. Kemalists evolved over time to be more and more left wing to the point that you could also call them social democrats these days.
I will try to summarize with examples: Kemalists were in favor of something that was called village institutes whose purpose was to provide free education to rural folk in order to "raise them up".
At the same time they are in favor of state owned companies but not against private companies existing either.
Moreover they wanted Turkey to align with the Western world, Nato and the EU.
I think the primary thing that seperates them from social democrats we know from the west is their nationalism.
tabulasomnia@reddit
for sure there are, and have been, "kemalists" with racist ideology. the kurdish ban happened under the presumably kemalist rule of the junta.
Significant-Ad-7182@reddit
Yeah the junta lost the plot.
Few_Concentrate_6708@reddit
Depends however kemalist is best described as left wing nationalist as it was progressive and statist.
OkBag8209@reddit
economically they are center-left politically center-right
Areyoucunt@reddit
You support the peoples right to protest. Wonder why nobody cares when irgc slaughtered thousands upon thousands of their own citizens and have policies in place to allow the rape of the females before they were hung.
Somehow that was easy to ignore, but US now supporting their ally in middle East and it's all hell on earth. Even with proven targets being military
Wonder why that narrative is the way it is, huh...
xXbabyangelXx@reddit
The only moral thing to think here is that these protests are wrong and disgusting.
Imagine if this was Germans protesting that the Holocaust never happened right after it's remembrance day, and that if it happened, it was actually the fault of those they massacred in large numbers. Isn't that ridiculous?
vm0066@reddit
So what I'm learning here is turkish diaspora is cringe and embarrassing just like the greek one 🇬🇷🤝🇹🇷
ILikeCucumbers01@reddit
Ok-Priority253@reddit
Man, Turkish nationalists need to be examined. Every one of these types of posts has at least a dozen comments saying the most insane, imperialist, genocidal shit, and everyone just acts like it's normal. It makes me wonder why we're even including them in the Balkan subreddit, the gulf between even something like Serbian nationalists and Turks is massive.
malaka789@reddit
Over_Cost_3257@reddit
Send em back here , don't get political and all Turkish after you leave your country becuse its bad. We feel the same way here why do that to other peoples country geez.
IfICode@reddit
Why is this asked here? Turkey is not balkans, just occupies greece :/
DryPreference7589@reddit
Similar culture? Also by your logic every country is occupying someone else's land.
IfICode@reddit
Only the occupied part of greece is somewhat similar
DryPreference7589@reddit
you must not know what purpose of a war back then was. didn't go to school or something?
IfICode@reddit
Yeah it’s to occupy areas
DryPreference7589@reddit
and then that area belongs to you. what do you expect? so everyone leaves their land and relocate to wherever their ancestors lived 1000 years ago? that's stupid. there's a reason why anyone loses land to someone else. in an ideal world there would be no conflicts or wars but that's not the reality we live in is it? complaining about it won't change anything. Turks made sacrifices to keep their land during ottoman collapse so respect that at least.
IfICode@reddit
So yeah it’s occupied by turkey
DryPreference7589@reddit
and you will keep crying about it lmao
alkorisno@reddit
Why does American politicians feel obligated to meddle into other countries politics? He is a fucking mayor of a city for fucks sake, not an ambassodor
Criycleia@reddit
My honest opinion.
zenfone500@reddit
Everytime they talk about Armenian "genocide" I want people to remember this photo, specificially what they did to locals who used to live in there with them for hundreds of years.
busystepdad@reddit
may I ask for the source please? I encounter this image only shared by turks and azeris and never seen any mentions of where it comes from
zenfone500@reddit
Here's your source. And here.
Probably because when sources are mentioned, there are "asktually" type of people trying to discredit it.
If you also wonder why only Turks and Azeris shares these, because it destroys the whole "Armenians are victims." narrative. Also one of the workers in Reddit is an Armenian man who grew up in America where they will ban whole your account for posting these type of stuff, don't believe me? Armenians in this website can send death threats to you and If you report them, you get flagged instead, such a nice system.
Lastly, do you see Japanese people talking about Unit 731 or any other vile stuff they have done? Then you know why now.
Turkish source name here : ATASE Arşivi, Birinci Dünya Harbi Fotoğraf Koleksiyonu, Albüm No: 4, Fotoğraf No: 107.
Visible_Amount5383@reddit
“Supporting genocide”
Full_Cow_9338@reddit
I agree, why would he support genocide?
Illustrious-Bank-519@reddit
Beyond pathetic.
Based Mamdani 👏
Kooky_Reply8771@reddit
I dont get why so serious from a more than one hundred years tragedy. I also know that during that time Turkiye was invaded by super powers and Armenian minorities sided with the invaders. This doesnt give a fair point to genocide though.
NegotiationSweet5082@reddit
By the way, for those wondering about the stance of Turkish politics, here is the statement on the matter by Ümit Özdağ, the leader of the Victory Party (Zafer Partisi)—a party supported by young nationalists that fielded a candidate who received 5% of the vote in the last general election:
'The Mayor of New York is talking like a piece of shit about the so-called Armenian genocide just to get 3 Armenian votes.'
You can be sure that the ruling party doesn't have very different views on this issue.
AntiKouk@reddit
This is that I imagine the German view of the holocaust would have been if they had not been pummeled into the ground by the USSR and Allies
NegotiationSweet5082@reddit
The Nazis advocated for the euthanasia of disabled people and those with genetic diseases, even if they were German. Therefore, they didn't care much about the Holocaust.
NoItem5389@reddit
1) To all my Turkish friends in this forum. Anatolia was Greek, Armenian, and Assyrian for over 2,000 years before the Seljuks came. Many, if not most, of your ancestors were at one point Greeks or Armenians Christians who either due to the jizya tax or for their own safety, converted to Islam and became Turks. I know this because many Pontic Greeks who share my DNA stayed in Pontus and became Muslim/Turks.
2) I am not saying this to attack your identity, I am saying that recognizing history is our duty as humans to pursue the truth. Turkey DID genocide 3 million Christians (Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrians). Those people did not vanish in thin air. There are many documents and photos that support it.
3) It does not mean Turkey is any less valid as a nation to admit the Armenian, Greek, and Assyrians genocides. As a (Pontic-Greek) American I acknowledge that America has committed many such atrocities to native people and minorities. It doesn’t make me less American to admit the truth. If anything it improves my country because we can look at what went wrong and try to pursue a better future.
Potential-Run-6540@reddit
"Turkey DID genocide 3 million" No bro it's actually 1 billion Turkey also murdered Native Americans trust
DryPreference7589@reddit
And you conveniently forget about dinosaurs, of course. Turk genocide of dinosaurs will never be forgotten.
volcano156@reddit
Turkey mentioned
Astarot43@reddit
As citizens from a European country Turkey should not be in NATO, and Greece/Bulgaria deserves full support or Europe if Turkey try anything.
DryPreference7589@reddit
And what could Turkey do to you guys exactly and why? Lmao
Gold-Ad-2581@reddit
Supporting genocide or supporting recognition of genocide?
Potential-Run-6540@reddit
Turks in america have been more useful than Turks in germany that's nice to see xD
VictariontheSailor@reddit
Easy, go back to your country
Mac62961@reddit
It was genocide.
BurgurluGenc031@reddit
I mean is there a right side in this conservation? Rebellist armenians supported by russia was raiding,attacking and killing civils too with bunch of log and photos provin this. Ottoman casually doubles the action when this type things happen actin like its a blood feud. Neither side is fully true. Neither side accepts their actions wrongly done even it was right or not.
Infinite-Rate9398@reddit
Who started massacring Armenians in the 1890's? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the Armenians themselves
BurgurluGenc031@reddit
Abdulhamids regime may be done it but it doesnt change the fact u did same shitty things with rebellist. God i hate when this type things happens people just blames the other people when its the regime who done it.
Infinite-Rate9398@reddit
What you did and what we did are not the same. Can you provide sources for Armenians en mass massacring Turkish villages?
BurgurluGenc031@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/KemalistTurkey/s/8zhSLRXe5j
https://www.reddit.com/r/KemalistTurkey/s/zHSD2nmxfa
https://www.reddit.com/r/KemalistTurkey/s/Weu2V0bpUr
https://www.reddit.com/r/KemalistTurkey/s/n96unMGDOy
4 post about whole thing with sources on the comments pinned,if u directly just wan to look photos or logs of the thing i said,its on the 4. Link.
AgisXIV@reddit
Armenians were the most loyal minority in the Empire until Abdul Hamid started pogroming them...
angel-dk-tr@reddit
Exactly. War times are horrible and proxy wars using minorities and close proximity entities with no regard for co-existence in the future is bound to become a disaster.
We see it with Armenia x Turkey, Greece x Turkey, Israel x Palestine, India x Pakistan and more.
The "big boys" conveniently disrupt peace and co-existence in a region of interest, make the same promises to a few rebel groups and arms them, set-up some major terror attacks to force the hand of the ruling force and then rush down to document/spread the happenings from a certain point of view.
It's genius, but a calculated evil and one has to question who benefits from these conflicts to continue, instead of promoting peace, trade and co-dependency.
Stealthfighter21@reddit
Rabid morons
BROkun55@reddit
R_Scoops@reddit
I’m so sick of Turkish nationalists who were born in Europe and probably have visited Turkey twice like you. Its hilarious. The “Armenian betrayal” narrative of WWI is the Ottoman justification for genocide, and it doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. The leading Armenian party, the Dashnaktsutiun, had been allied with the Young Turks before the war, and most Ottoman Armenians sought a future within the empire, hardly the profile of a population planning insurrection.
Anti-Armenian violence didn’t begin in 1915. The Hamidian massacres of the 1890s and the Adana massacre of 1909 predate WWI entirely. If some Armenians later collaborated with Russia, the more honest question is- why the fuck wouldn’t they you bozo? They’d been subjected to mass killings for decades. Armed resistance was largely reactive, not conspiratorial.
The fog of war provided cover, not cause. The CUP had been moving toward an ethnic nationalist vision since the Balkan Wars. The genocide was the execution of a pre-existing agenda, not a panicked wartime security measure. Turkeys whole identity and foundation myth is built on lies.
BROkun55@reddit
Haven't heard that one before. Nevertheless it's a completely useless and irrelevant comment because it has nothing to do with my argument.
I can do that to:
I'm sick of these churkas shilling for Russia and their subjects they moan about Türkiye but they turn a blind eye to Russian aggression. I bet you recognize South Ossetia.
I hope you see how that goes.
It's not a narrative it is what happened. It's written out right in front of your face.
I'm glad you can read the text does indeed say the fall of 1914 which is before 1915.
Yes, yes very nationalistic evil things they were doing in the balkans
Infinite-Rate9398@reddit
Did you conveniently ignore the Hamidian massacres?
R_Scoops@reddit
I’m half Georgian so most defintelt do not recognise South Ossetia, Abkhazia or Transnistria.
Just so I know we’re operation on some level of reality. Do you think Armenians (who are mentioned about 5 times in that article) were responsible for the persecution? Or was it Balkan countries?
So persecution by Europeans without Armenian involvement justifies a genocide against a group not responsible, Armenians?
Infinite-Rate9398@reddit
The correct response was genocide? Did you ever wonder why the Armenians wanted independence? Hundreds of thousands of Armenians were massacred from 1894-1896 during the Hamidian massacres
OscarOzzieOzborne21@reddit
Ok then. So let us say the Turks do something similar. Let us say they betray my country like this. How much of the population am I allowed to murder? How much men, women, children, elderly, can I rightfully slaughter and dispose their bodies in mass graves?
TBARb_D_D@reddit
The logic fails when you keep in mind that elderly, women, children, loyalists and members of Ottoman analogue of parliament were also victims of genocide
BigFrosty818@reddit
🥱
TheReal_Elite@reddit
Wasn’t ready for this comment section, wtf. 💔
Consistent-Boss-7670@reddit
🇲🇽❤️🇹🇷
alecorock@reddit
The last mayor Eric Adams was in the pocket of Turkey (and now is an Albanian citizen) so they are probably gonna harras Mamdani.
Adams famously misspelled Istanbul when texting his girlfriend about free flights he was getting from Turkey.
nlfire865@reddit
"Mean accusations of genocide"? Seriously, Turks, grow up. It happened, just admit it and make amends.
holdmymusic@reddit
Looking at this image, all flags must be banned in the US other than the American flag. It's not a country that's based on ethnicity like most other countries. If any legal person can be an American they should only wave the American flag and if they like their shitholes so much they can go back there.
Friendly-Olive-3465@reddit
I’m having a stroke with the headline. Does supporting the Armenian genocide mean acknowledging it happened, denying it, or being glad it happened?
riverloves90s@reddit
I think they meant it in a acknowledging way
Few_Concentrate_6708@reddit
All the Turks saying it didn’t happen Muslims suffered as well. As a Turk I can say both statements can be right . The Armenian genocide happened and Turkish suffering was still real and is sadly often ignored. The revenge acts of Armenians and Russians against Muslims happened after the Russian revolution and the withdrawal of Russian forces of Anatolia . The Armenians massacred the Muslims for 2 reasons. 1. Revenge . The obvious one . 2. a Muslim free Armenia . At that time population was everything . If you wanted land you would justify it by saying you have people there . That’s why the ottomans did the genocide in the first place . If there are no Armenians there is no Armenian question. Still both statements don’t contradict each other . Armenians were victims of genocide during ww1 and Muslims were victims of Armenian revenge after it. Dissonance is a bitch
urhiteshub@reddit
It's more a discussion of whether the term genocide is applicable, which I find is a boring topic. Turkish position seems to explain the events as a combination of government inefficiency, ethnic tensions and gang violence naturally arising, and things getting out of hand in a chaotic WW1 environment, thus denying genocidal intent and often numbers too. As for the motivations of the Ottoman side, Armenians as 5th columnists and other wartime security arguments I think are more relevant for 1915. I would add that very few atrocities can't possibly be based on some sense of revenge. The fact that the basis for revenge had not been some fabrication or exaggeration doesn't make it righteous either. So I find your categories as victims of revenge vs genocide rather objectionable. Genocide itself, as you examine in your comment, had not been an experiment in senseless butchery fueled solely by race-hatred, but had certain rationalizations and attempted justifications. I don't see a reason to endorse the point of view of revenge or some other motivation for either side, though I suppose we can admit that these POVs aren't equally justifiable given the facts.
Few_Concentrate_6708@reddit
yeah but what exacly are you implying? Do you reject the catogorasition as in it implies that the armenian violence was more justifable or what exacltry?
urhiteshub@reddit
I just found your final characterization of Turks as victims of revenge as opposed to Armenians of genocide, the selective adoption of a narrative from the viewpoint of those who commited ethnic cleansing, rather distasteful.
NigthSHadoew@reddit
First time hearing about this but the fact that the sign specifies "muslim turks" that these people propably belong to a right leaning, islamist group rather than just Turks living in New York.
South-Cantaloupe-814@reddit
Hypocrites
KPlusGauda@reddit
Seriously, why should we care about this happening?
Abject_Fun_5230@reddit
Must be nice being dumb. Mostcof these are revolta against otoman rule and are nowhere near the scale of the armenian genocide nor they Target primarily civilans
Final_Sundae4254@reddit
Theri City,Their Rules. Turks can leave if they don't like it.
KillerNail@reddit
I'm confused, whose city is it? The sides involved are all immigrants, an Ugandan and people from two Eurasian countries. None of them have a bigger claim on NYC than the other, wdym "their city"?
Vestout@reddit
NYC was promised to Armenians by Woodrow Wilson 3000 years ago
mahboilucas@reddit
Supporting? What did he say? I'm pressing the doubt button
KillerNail@reddit
"Today marks the 111th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide. As we honor the 1.5 million Armenians murdered by the Ottoman Empire across modern-day Turkey, Syria, and Armenia, we must refuse to let history repeat itself.
In 2020, the military forces of Azerbaijan and Turkey attacked the Armenian population in Nagorno-Karabakh. In 2023, Azerbaijan expelled over 100,000 Armenians from Nagorno-Karabakh, continuing the genocidal campaign that had begun over 100 years prior.
On this day of remembrance, we reaffirm the right of the Armenian people — and all people — to freedom, safety, and self-determination."
Historical_Roll_2974@reddit
They have probably voted for erdogan for the last 20 years without thinking a second thought about it
Cool_Guy_Chazz@reddit
There’s a pattern where uncomfortable historical realities get dismissed, while a narrative of victimhood takes center stage. But like many former imperial powers France, the UK, Spain, Japan, etc, Turkey’s history also includes expansion, domination, genocide and colonization. Acknowledging that complexity isn’t an attack, it’s a step toward honesty. But Turks clearly aren't ready to be honest with themselves.
GWahazar@reddit
Supporting? What does it mean, in this context?
DctrJTAssassin@reddit
turks really think they have a say in something lmao
CerebraICortex@reddit
Lool it’s like 10 out of at least 50k Turks in nyc. No one cares. Mamdani is pandering. I wonder if he will post about all ethnic cleansings, that would be a full time job.
StunningComment6064@reddit
Turks being loud toward Serbs and Russians about genocide while denying their own needs to be studied.
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
It is futile and pointless.
-The major should not comment on historical events, especially when it happened on another continent. Now people can call him hypocritical for expressing genocide X and not Y. He is also entirely dismissing the ethnic cleansing of aserbaijanis because reasons.
-It is pointless to protest the actions of the major. At best people will think you are denying a genocide. At worst you will be labelled a fashist.
You cant have a geniune public discussion about this topic in the first place, much less on reddit. Most of the time a mod with an ego larger than that of Elon Musk just bans you and if that doesnt happen, it becomes an upvote/downvote circle-jerk.
I will however say this much: The turkish side would be much more willing to accept the entire situation if turkish victims were not brushed aside and people were honest about the number of armenian victims.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Yeah like people arent doing that regardless of what we do lmao
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
Sure and giving them another example helps the turkish case how exactly?
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Theres no value in trying if the results dont change regardless of your effort.
Do you know what the definition of insanity is?
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
So why do the same shit and give the anti-turkish crowd yet another example with which they can label turks fashist?
You are allowed to change your approach.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Goes both ways tbh, why is it our sole responsibility to change approach? What good does change do to people who dont wanna see it? İf İ had to expend energy on something only to be called lazy then it would be better not to expend energy because at least İ wouldnt be worn out then
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
Buddy did you not read what OP posted? Energy was already spent here.
Ujemegaz@reddit
They don't care about other countries' opinion, obviously.
prezzpac@reddit
American (non-New Yorker) here. I can see why it would be confusing that a mayor is talking about this at all. What might not be obvious is that there are large Armenian-American communities in some cities (notably Boston, where I live) and they tend to be VERY politically active and organized. So, he’s doing local politics by talking about this.
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
I am well aware of the armenian community in the US, but by that logic is Mamadani going to about the Bengal famine? And mind you: Talking about the events in 1915 is one thing, dismissing the ethnic cleansing conduting against turks in the 1990th by Armenia another.
You can be in support for the recognition of the armenian genocide in 1915 and criticize Armenia for their ethnic cleansing in the 1990th at the same time. Otherwise you are just a hypocritical arseface.
prezzpac@reddit
I’m not making an argument, just giving some context for people who might not be familiar with US urban politics.
bespoketranche1@reddit
Are people denying that the Bengal famine happened?
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
That is a strawman.
He is denying the ethnic cleansing of turks in the 1990th as well as the genocide in Hocali also conducted by Armenia. That is from his public tweet alone.
My point with the Bengal famine is about the political involvement. A major lost arse regarding historic events. If he still wants to do that, then he is either all inclusive with the topic and (for instance) mentions the Bengal famine or he doesnt and he just becomes a hypocritical arseface.
If your argument is that he "just wanted to do good by mentioning a denied genocide": Why is he dismissing the genocide in Hocali himself?
bespoketranche1@reddit
You brought up the strawman. He’s highlighting a genocide that the Turks have historically denied. Doing so doesn’t suddenly make you beholden to talk about every injustice in the world. He’s highlighting an undeniable historical event that has been denied. It’s their right to protest it and your right to think differently, but you can see why he’s doing it.
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
The topic clearly goes over your head.
The bengal famine (for the second time) was an example. We can take the Hocali genocide as a better example. In his tweet, in which he supports the recognition of the armenian genocide, he is entirely dismissing turkish victims. He is utterly brushing off the ethnic cleansing and genocide of turks in the 1990th. A genocide that is also denied, but by the armenian side.
You can not know this and say with a clear conscious that this behaviour is geniune and with the best intentions. All he is doing is to radicalize the opinions about this topic even further. About a region and a part of history that has arse to do with NY.
Strawman number 2.
TopObjective754@reddit
Let’s add to it the genocides and terror in the balkans for 500 years
OperationOne7762@reddit
"Suporting" Is a real dubious word to use and I don't think a respectable news source should ever cover something in this way. Like what does it even mean in this case? I can spin it atleast 5 different ways. Does he support the claim the genocide happened, does he support genociding armenians and which of those 2 readings are the Turks against?
Kaiser-Kahan@reddit
There is no Armenian genocide!
IrateLibtard@reddit
I ❤️ OPERATION NEMESIS!!!
blumonste@reddit
Turkey and Armenian should normalize their relations and open the borders for trade and tourism. It is for the benefit of both sides.
No_Bodybuilder_4826@reddit
It's good when they protest. Makes it easy to identify the problem. Then hopefully move past trying to rewrite history
ShitassAintOverYet@reddit
I think they are full of shit
BabylonianWeeb@reddit
Zohran is the only politician in US history that have said he would arrest Netanyahu for his genocide, so please don't ruin our chance.
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
Woulda, shoulda, coulda
Ujemegaz@reddit
😂
Ujemegaz@reddit
They have the right to deny genocide. Freedom of speech and all that.
evacOrbis@reddit
they are idiots
Sasayego@reddit
You are the only idiot here.
evacOrbis@reddit
f$ck 0FF
Zealousideal_Cry_460@reddit
İmagine censoring yourself directly insulting people.
Like it protects you from reports or something
Sasayego@reddit
tkchrist@reddit
There is nothing to think even for Mamdani. As a Mayor of New York, how couldn't he acknowledge Armenian Genocide...? It has been recognised both by the federal goverment and each state separetely (with the last one being Mississippi).
MysticEnby420@reddit
I think they're stupid but I'm not surprised but I mostly think Zohran is just continuing trying to speed run best mayor in NYC history.
Surfer_Rick@reddit
Mamdani honored the Armenian genocide victims in remembrance.
This post is misinformation, alleging the opposite of what he did.
However now it makes sense why Turks protested (for their right to genocide)
Typical_guy11@reddit
Caption on image posted by OP required more time to understand what happened and still I'm not sure.
furyca@reddit
I think Turkish reactiveness make it more of a deal than what it would be otherwise.
medved76@reddit
Mean!
tabulasomnia@reddit
I don't.
VisibleReport5008@reddit
Dry-Dog-2867@reddit
Zohran is an idiot for comparing karabkh situation with genocide . just say i recognize it and leave but no he choosed to stretch shit and create unnecesary tension for no fucking reason . But these are not acceptable behaviors by any means . Dont be an idiot sake of competing another