Could Convair Kingfish fulfill requirements of Gusto program (better than A-12)?
Posted by Federal_Cobbler6647@reddit | WeirdWings | View on Reddit | 23 comments
As we all know Blackbird was the design that emerged victorious from the program and such remained as "ultimate spy bird".
Little less known fact was that Oxcart never flew missions it was intended for (over the Soviet Union) and it was determined to be suspectible for their air defences due to blip-to-scan "loophole" being closed.
Now from the stealth perspective it is rather easy to see that Kingfish was much more advanced design than A-12. It featured massive amount of external features that were designed to reduce RCS including covered exhausts. What do you think, would this plane, even though slower been better performing craft in field?
Of course expecting Convair to be actually able to build the thing.
cryptek66@reddit
I think aerodynamically and stealth wise yes.
_Molj@reddit
The left side of the fuselage is on the centerline of the wing. Can't unsee.
Federal_Cobbler6647@reddit (OP)
Its due rather heavy dihedral.
ShakyBrainSurgeon@reddit
The speeds they planned for, would be quite difficult to achieve even by modern standards but it is doable. If it was doable for Convair back then? I kinda doubt it.
Federal_Cobbler6647@reddit (OP)
Are you possibly mixing crafts? This was supposed to top at 3.2 mach, same as A-12. Super Hustler and FISH were those mach 4-5 fantasies.
ShakyBrainSurgeon@reddit
I think so, the FISH ironically came earlier. Still pretty advanced for Convair...
Federal_Cobbler6647@reddit (OP)
Well, maybe they realised early that pushing speed envelope was kind of dead end. What do you mean? Convair, after all was one of leaders in supersonic aircraft development. B-58 was seriously cutting edge and still has valid performance record of longest supersonic flight. Rather wild I think. One would have thought that had been broken now.
Virtual_Area8230@reddit
No. That's why they picked the A-12.
Federal_Cobbler6647@reddit (OP)
All the information seems to suggest that Kingfish as a concept had performance edge and its advancement in stealth was recognized.
But convair had fumbled their previous projects in budget so they picked cheaper concept of Locheed.
DeltaV-Mzero@reddit
Aerodynamically - probably
Stealth shaping - probably
Stealth materials - maybe
Stealth material at Mach something - nah
Virtual_Area8230@reddit
The A-12 had stealth materials at Mach.
BigDaddyThunderpants@reddit
What's with the triangular edges there?
Federal_Cobbler6647@reddit (OP)
Reduction of RCS, that is the structural shape. Those gaps would be filled with elements made from early RAM. A-12 had similar elements in some parts, but as far as I know it was more of afterthought which can be seen from the fact that that feature appeared to A-12 only after initial RCS measurements in Groom lake.
Fearless_Turnip_9686@reddit
I read that flying directly "over the SU" was considered an aggressive move, so USA settled to skim the borders using lateral scan radars and photos
vehicularmcs@reddit
Somebody explain the blip to scan loophole to me like I'm a mechanic.
bigloser42@reddit
old-school radars swept the horizon by physically spinning the antenna, so the speed at which you could scan any given part of the sky was based on how fast the radar spun, and it wasn't unusual for a radar to take 10 seconds to do a complete revolution. This meant a plane that was flying at the radar would appear as a blip, then start to fade, then on the next scan a second blip would appear just in front of the last one, causing a line to appear, giving the operator a clear indicator of an aircraft and an idea of where it was going.
The loophole was that if you could fly fast enough, 2 consecutive blips would be far enough apart that they would no longer form a line and hopefully fall below the threshold the operator was looking for and could potentially blend in with the background noise because the dots didn't stack up like they would with normal aircraft.
This issue was mitigated by building new radars with faster spinning dishes and completely eliminated with AESA radars(which are essentially giant panels of hundreds to thousands of tiny radars that you steer electronically to make one giant radar).
vehicularmcs@reddit
Good man.
bigloser42@reddit
I don't know about good. OK-ish, sure, but not good.
RandoDude124@reddit
It’d give maintenance crews PTSD if the B-58 is anything to go by
Federal_Cobbler6647@reddit (OP)
How much worse it could have been compared to A-12 :D
jar1967@reddit
Theoretically, yes In reality, no.
AzureBelle@reddit
It was from Convair - so the problems with the craft only end with the final design. Convair wasn't in a financial or security position to take on this task, and their recent previous projects had all had huge issues. And while it has that flat panel look of the F-117, there's still the problem of speed - it's unlikely this design could ever hit the performance figures they were looking for - and that they didn't have the knowledge on how to actually apply the shape right. For example the rear vertical surfaces would have been huge reflective surfaces, and the materials for the underside wouldn't have been able to absorb the radar waves like the F-117.
hutch_man0@reddit
Beautiful rendering