Alright, am I missing something here? Why don't we just use the 3 class system, anything past that is a moped, and if it looks and rides like a moto, call it an e-moto?
Posted by neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 113 comments
I may not be a politician, or a highly paid journalist, I am a poor man who likes bikes.
Still, after seeing more posts today talking' about teens getting injured by "e-bikes" (an e-moped) and just random stuff and then some YouTube vids talking about the controversy over the Jersey law. I'm just lost.
We already have a term for a motorized vehicle that is not highway capable but still attains higher-than-bike speeds and may have pedals: A moped, a limited use motorcycle. It's just almost never seen, like, ever in developed nations. When I was in tech college, for the god-awful idea of cabinetry and design, the automotive tech kids fixed them up and found even the DMV didn't know how to register them, let alone drivers, but we still had the legal language: https://dmv.ny.gov/registration/register-a-limited-use-motorcycle-moped
I'm sure other states and nations have similar legal language for mopeds. The Honda Cub/Honda Metropolitan is technically the most sold and owned vehicle in the world, despite a top speed of 45-50mph.
So... Why don't we just call it a moped, have the riders get registered and titled, and be happy people are using them instead of a car? Then reserve the term "e-bike", for, well, bikes that can still operate under human power? And as for stuff like Surrons: Just... Admit they're an Electric Motorized bicycle, aka, an e-moto.
Alright thanks guys tell NJ and journalists they can Venmo me at their leisure. I will also take food, or gift cards to Lee Valley, Trader Joes, Harbor Freight, Park Tools.
Rogue_Wraith@reddit
As a start, because there's a rather vocal portion of the eMoto community that wants to be classified as eBikes.
This subreddit, specifically, does not make a distinction - electric motorcycles are specifically allowed in this sub.
There's a lot of value - from political talking points to international sales figures - tied up in willingly obfuscating definitions.
SadisticPawz@reddit
And, there's value in having a legal mini moped class that is bicycle equivalent.
Neenknits@reddit
Value in having mini mopeds that can go too fast on too weak frames without adequate brakes, in bike spaces, going faster than a car driver can reasonably expect, which causes accidents, because a vast number of crashes are caused when one vehicle for something the other doesn’t expect?
Yeah, sure.
SadisticPawz@reddit
"Too fast" no. The brakes and frames are perfectly adequate. Have you even tried them? Wdym a car driver can expect? You won't even be making contact with cars because you'll either be going with the flow of traffic or crossing sidewalks at walking pace. Implying that drivers are incapable of adapting to the future of micromobility ??? Thats the same kind of shit that prevents bike lanes from being built-in. "But that concrete block is in my way! I cant learn how to share the road!!"
Neenknits@reddit
No, when the law is that motors max out at 20, drivers can reasonably expect that bikes will be riding below that. When an out of class moped that looks like a bike races up to 30 unexpectedly, that is the sort of thing that causes accidents.
When two cars crash it’s often because one does something the other didn’t expect. That is why we have right of way and way driver ed pushes “take right of way when it’s yours. It’s safer”.
A mini moped in a bike frame isn’t safe, because of physics.
SadisticPawz@reddit
Drivers have no idea about bike laws, they wont be expecting anything. Drivers need to adapt to new vehicles instead of being luddites, they aren't as dumb as you make them seem. Theres nothing unsafe about a good bike frame.
Nibb31@reddit
There's value in having a loophole that distorts regulations so that you can ride a motorbike on cycle paths and pathways.
SadisticPawz@reddit
Not my point.
Nicky2Nuts@reddit
Tell that second part to 90% of the commenters on this sub.
Rogue_Wraith@reddit
I actually agree with those 90%, though - stronger distinctions make everything clearer for everyone, and this sub conflating them results in things like 15-year-olds trying to use this forum to figure out how to commute on city streets on a 40MPH off-road eMoto that is very clearly illegal from like a half-dozen points of view.
If this subreddit was called something besides "ebikes" it would be less problematic.
I just don't generally bring it up.
Nicky2Nuts@reddit
Doesn’t mean you should blindly shit on people with bikes you deem unworthy of this sub. It means create a sub or find a sub with a narrower scope. I don’t mean you specifically.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
No, that's not an accurate chararization. People posting about e-motos are given grief because they are riding them illegally with zero concern for the safety of others or the impact they are having on class 1/2/3 ebikes via calls for restrictions in response.
Nicky2Nuts@reddit
You never speed in you car?
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
You could feed a horse with a strawman like that.
Nicky2Nuts@reddit
Not the case here bud. Your avoidance of my question is the answer I needed. Thanks!
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit (OP)
No one is shitting on you dude
Nicky2Nuts@reddit
Not me, dude. It is the sub in general. I think you knew that and are proving my point for me!
Rogue_Wraith@reddit
I don't necessarily disagree with you - the world could do for a kinder internet in general - but a group calling itself "r/ebikes" is likely to be seen as an authority for what ebikes are, particularly in the Reddit space.
Both are perfectly valid forms of transporation when used legally, but this is a scenario where "words mean things" and the meaning of ebike gets somewhat diluted here.
I would actually submit that this Reddit should narrow its scope to avoid that confusion, and partner with (or create) a larger e-mobility group.
Somewhat how r/cycling and r/bicycling somewhat co-exist with one group focusing on pictures and the other group focusing on written posts.
thirtynation@reddit
That's an ENTIRE load of bullshit. Anybody that thinks this deserves to stay stupid.
PreferenceAny3920@reddit
Love that even in your basic bicycle groups you folks are such asshats you have to divide even further to have excuses to be elitist gatekeepers with eachother. I have never found a community so annoying as the cycling community. Petty pea brained sock puppets. Guessing it’s to make up for all the ED insecurity from the excuses for seats y’all use yeah? You folks are as bad as the jerks in the massive pickups. People groan inwardly always and sometimes outwardly when they see you coming 😅
Nicky2Nuts@reddit
The sub is for sharing info and asking and answering questions about e-bikes, not determining who has the right to ask or be answered.
PreferenceAny3920@reddit
Take an upvote for a reasonable, intelligent response! 😊🍻
AdCareless9063@reddit
The e-motos/dirtbikes/mopeds are not e-bikes. E-bike has a strict legal definition.
PreferenceAny3920@reddit
Stfu. Go back to your /R. I know you think if you say a lie enough times it’ll become truth but ask yourself, has it worked yet for everytime you have told everyone in the room how much smarter you are than them. We both know the answer is a simple “nope”
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit (OP)
I feel like flairs for ebike vs emoto vs emoped would be nice. I'm all for safe responsible usage of anything, but not "dude uh my surron toottally is the same as your REI city bike"
qwertyqwerty4567@reddit
sub already has emoto/ebike flairs
PreferenceAny3920@reddit
LOL! God help you the day someone types an impression of you. Yooouuuu woooonnn’t liiike it.
Own_Experience_8229@reddit
Because e-bikes are basically mopeds.
TarnishedVictory@reddit
How is class 3 not a moped?
Tight-War-8013@reddit
Not a moped cuz its not gas, has no lights, people don’t wear motorcycle helmets, and people don’t drive them like mopeds(as a car)
TRAKRACER@reddit
What are you smoking?? I have a few e-bikes ranging from 48volts to 60 volts. They all have pedals and a derailer. I ride them all the same way with regardless of the top speed I never ride faster than 25-27 mph. It is nice to have the ability to go faster to get away from a distracted driver or an asshole trying to run you off of the road. I rarely need a boost. The kids in my neighborhood that are a menace have electric motorcycles ( no pedals ) to an e-bike. There are also a few high speed scooter. I enjoy my e-bikes on short errands and do not ride like a fool and I always wear a scooter helmet, gloves, long sleeves and pants. Never shorts or without a helmet.90% of my friends with e-bikes do the same. Law enforcement need to focus on the electric motorize things without pedals in my opinion
Tight-War-8013@reddit
Pedals do not make your vehicle safer. Pedals are also easy to add on. What WOULD make ebikes safer is requiring mirrors, blinkers, brake lights and Regen braking.
mmeiser@reddit
emoto is ro moped what tiny house is to trailer home. Mopeds are not cool. Emoto are, lol. Seriously though. Emotos are cool. I just wish there weren't so many people trying to ride them without licensce and registration. Also, we need an update to the moped laws on the federal level to make it easier to attain a licensce and registration.
btw another thing that seems to be getting hipster are those electric golf carts. I believe they call them side-by-sides now. Not just in RV parks but WHEN i wa sin mempbis I saw some in downtown on a saturday night. I like it. Anything not a car I love. It all makes the world a better place. And safer too! Seriously the more things on the road NOT a carnthe safer it is for everyone even car drivers. Carbrain is complacency and not just of the body but imof the mind.
thewimsey@reddit
You don't need a license or registration for a moped. That's pretty much the whole point of a moped.
mmeiser@reddit
thanks, did not know that.
EchoScary6355@reddit
I think a moped is limited to 24mph. used to be in MI anyway.
457kHz@reddit
Enforce the rules and you can call it anything you like.
tulsadog@reddit
Exactly! None of this matters if there isn’t an enforcement component.
stormdelta@reddit
It matters because if you pass shitty laws, it still hurts people who are trying to be responsible and makes bikes less accessible.
Which of course is usually the point, these laws aren't passed by people who give a shit about safety, they're passed by wealthy politicians that have never commuted by bike a day in their lives and that see cyclists as a nuisance.
Verneff@reddit
Better way to say it, none of this helps if there isn't enforcement.
odie-z1@reddit
Just think of the hurting that the electric moped manufacturers could put on electric motorcycle market by selling something that is licensed and freeway safe, for under $5k. Decent electric motorcycles, like a HD and others, cost WAY too much... they need to be reminded so it hurts their bottom line
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
You can't do that. Mopeds are restricted to 30 mph.
Making a 70mph e-moped would require so much more weight and battery power to go from 30 mph to 70 i would be as big and heavy as an e motorcycle. 16x the wattage from 30 to 70... thanks air resistance!
There is not much to hurt on the eMC side anyway.
sparhawk817@reddit
It's silly, mopeds are restricted to 30, but 50 cc scooters to 45 mph, and class 3 Ebikes 28 mph.
Why? Who thought this made sense? Why can't we have a little consistency?
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
Well, the brake systems, wheels, tires, suspension, etc are a lot beefier than an ebike.
A Honda supercub is 211 lbs, has 2.5 inches of suspension, DOT approved tires, 240mm vacuum assisted hydrolic brakes, lights, turn signals...
To compare to any e-bike or e-moto is a bit ridiculous.
The crazy part is they are less than half the cost of a Surron ultra bee.
hezuschristos@reddit
Mopeds often don’t require a motorcycle license. While they have been wildly unpopular until the recent surge in e-mopeds, that was the reason for the power and speed limitations. Make it more accessible to people. Where I live a moped and a scooter are the same thing legally.
Above the power and speed limitations most jurisdictions then just call it a motorcycle, and require all the things that go with that title.
The 3 class system was something ebike advocates canes up with to create some definitions of what type of bike could go where. Unfortunately it’s just confused things as lawmakers try to play catch up.
sparhawk817@reddit
Right, but they do require a license of some sort and registration and insurance.
A 50cc scooter also requires the same license in most states, hence the confusion on the differing speed governing.
I get the 3 class system, I'm confused why those people chose 28 instead of 30, like mopeds.
Consistency is rarely a bad thing. That's all I'm saying. Legally, both enforcement wise and passing laws wise, it would be so much easier if class 3 ebikes were just mopeds, and class 2 were Ebikes.
I would happily register my class 3s as mopeds and pay the 8 dollars a month in insurance.
hezuschristos@reddit
You are correct. Simplicity and consistency are key. The class system, while well intentioned, really made it confusing, and is having a negative influence on how they are being regulated in some areas.
thewimsey@reddit
No, they don't.
Federal definition of moped is "not more than 50cc" (plus some other things).
Because 28 mph is often the top speed for mopeds. In my state, it's actually 25 mph, and in some other states it might be 30 - but 28 is a pretty good compromise.
It's also the EU moped top speed (45kph).
sparhawk817@reddit
They do require a license, title, registration, and insurance in many states in the US.
Say "no they don't" all you want, I choose to live in reality. Look it up for your local jurisdiction if you need local clarification.
The EU top speed is the real reason, thank you for the reminder.
odie-z1@reddit
But of course!
thewimsey@reddit
It's mostly consistent.
A moped is a <50cc scooter with a top design speed of 28 mph (some states it's 25, others it might be 30, but 28 is common and where the e-bike standard comes from).
This is allowable, but it then has to be registered and plated like a motorcycle, and you have to have a DL with a motorcycle endorsement.
sparhawk817@reddit
Drivers license or moped specific endorsement for Oregon at least, for the 50 cc but under 45 mph standard.
Trust me, I've done more than my fair share of research on the subject, I'm just whinging about it because it is inconsistent and that is holding us back as a society.
odie-z1@reddit
Going 70 on any classical moped is probably not possible. And a 'moped' has pedals.. w/o pedals is just a motorcycle..
Also, the mopeds of old were legal on the highway.. at 50 mph it might be a little scary getting passed by everyone.. but it was legal.
If I had a modern version where I could get around town, I'm in if the price is right..
Besides the only things modern ebikes don't have, that motorcycles do, is blinkers and a license plate.
nuyirnumi@reddit
First off: mopeds don't have pedals. They have typical handlebar grip throttle like a motorcycle would.
And mopeds can go over 30mph. Typically (within the USA, but this may vary from state to state), any 2-wheeled motorized vehicle that can exceed 30mph would be classified as a motorcycle and would require a motorcycle license to operate. So a moped that can exceed 30mph (or have a gas engine displacement that excess 49cc) would be registered as a motorcycle.
Once again, I will admit that I'm not aware of how mopeds and motorcycles are classified in every state. But these are the typical guidelines a DOT would use to distinguish between a moped and a motorcycle.
Dristig@reddit
That’s not true. Tons of e-motos go 60.
PreferenceAny3920@reddit
Made up engineering license obvious fail. 👆🏻
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
What part do you think is made up.
Be specific.
stormdelta@reddit
They should be restricted to 40mph, not 30mph, that's part of the whole issue.
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit (OP)
I'm down for anytjing that could get a CT125 lower. Even an used one at my dealership was $3500 which is a fair amount when it can't even push 50mph
BWWFC@reddit
bonk! no logic allowed! bonk bonk!
hezuschristos@reddit
Well there’s a few problems with what you have suggested.
Class 2 and 3 e-bikes ARE mopeds under the definition in almost every jurisdiction. The only thing that leaves them out is the 50cc power rating. Once moped is redefined to include electric power they would both be caught in that.
50% (more?) of this sub are the “all e-bikes are bikes” people. And they genuinely do not believe that there should be any restriction or requirement placed on their operation. Everything from class 1 to Surron style, all just a bike.
stormdelta@reddit
Most US states follow the three class system, meaning these are quite literally not mopeds by the definitions legally defined in those states.
I'll also point out that our moped laws are severely outdated and need to be updated. Most of them were specifically written to make mopeds less popular rather than safe anyways.
Very few posts like that are upvoted, and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise. People asking for help with Surrons and other dirtbikes are almost always downvoted quite heavily too.
hezuschristos@reddit
I want to clarify, a class 2 or 3 ebike is BASICALLY a moped. By most states legal definition it is max 30mph (sometimes 25), functional pedals, 50cc, throttle. So the only thing separating a class 2/3 from moped is 50cc, as soon as a state decides to update that to 50cc or “electric motor with equivalent power” the both class 2 and 3 are now a moped. I don’t want that to happen, but I do see it coming.
And you are at least partially correct, the surron style often get shit on here. But they are also clearly considered e-bikes by the mods. Additionally the existence of the 3 class system tells us that they are not all just bikes. Class 2 and 3 are often not allowed in places where class 1 are.
James-B0ndage@reddit
Plenty of moped style bikes top out at 28 pedal assist, and I have an eBike that looks nothing like a moped and can go over 40.
stormdelta@reddit
Because they were legislated out of existence to favor cars and the auto industry. We could of course fix that, and this is an excellent opportunity to do so.
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit (OP)
Ugh, so NYS must just have it left in there. Maybe due to NYC?
I agree, I think esp with the gas price and the climate crisis it really makes no sense to keep having CUVs be the dominant, daily, form of transport.
A moped is fine for commuting. Right happy medium between the cardio and length of time needed for a bike and a big old full motorcycle. I've done it in the past.
Electrical_Tof@reddit
But how dare people who don't have a household to receive mail be allowed to operate those mopeds! Wtf are you advocating???
BastianHill@reddit
Over here, Netherlands, Germany etc, its already basically like that: Electric 25 kmh max: ebike Electric 45 kmh max: speed pedelec Electric 45 kmh without pedalling: e scooter Above: e moto
Only 25 kmh ebike can be driven without license/insurance
sanjuro_kurosawa@reddit
Keep in mind that motorbike classification is based on ease of testing and certification. Many states require 50cc bikes to be registered (which is why these kinds of bikes come with 49cc engines). Mopeds also have certain standards to be street legal, but their riders may be required to have a motorcycle license. Certainly a driver's license.
Also there is the inclusive culture of all ebikes which fools parents thinking they are harmless. I mentioned the stereotype of Jackie Earle Haley in The Bad News Bears, who rode a 90cc 2 stroke. His character was a troubled anti-hero; in real life, police departments would not only attempt to stop him while riding, they would likely investigate at his home. Good luck asking your mom to buy you a dirt bike.
Keeping in mind that I've gone 50mph on a bicycle (on a long downhill), it's not so easy to classify what bikes should be registered at the DMV, require a motorcycle license and insurance to operate. The bike culture is too tolerant but how do we discipline ourselves so no rule breaking, from Idaho Stops to exceeding the speed limit, is the standard?
thewimsey@reddit
No. The whole point of mopeds is that you don't have to have a license or registration.
FuguSandwich@reddit
Because what all these laws are reacting to is an explosion of teens (often younger than the 16/17 age required to get a driver's license) riding eBikes in profoundly unsafe ways (on sidewalks, through groups of pedestrians, in traffic, etc). The issue isn't 20mph vs 28mph or pedal assist only vs pedal assist plus throttle or even about a strict 750W power cutoff. Yes, eMotos are their own problem but most of the stories that are prompting this legislation are just young teens riding Class 1 eBikes like total maniacs. You see them doing the same stuff and getting injured/killed on regular bikes too but it doesn't make for the same headlines. Politicians, as usual, want simple solutions, like banning some object, for complex problems.
thewimsey@reddit
No, it isn't. It's about them riding e-motos on MUPs.
Pretending that the problem doesn't exist means that other people will come up with the solution.
esh-pmc@reddit
I was with you until you wrote this:
I've seen quite a few kids engaging in unsafe behavior (unsafe for themselves and/or for others). And I see more and more articles about bikes being confiscated. Not a single kid I've seen and not a single photo from those articles were a Class I ebike.
FuguSandwich@reddit
Ok, I shouldn't have said "most" but rather "a lot". Clearly you have a lot of kids riding things like Sur Ribs like maniacs, but you also have a lot doing it on regular eBikes too. Point being, the issue isn't the bike, it's the kids riding them like a-holes.
espressocycle@reddit
People are always upset about kids being assholes on bikes, even 100% pedal powdered ones.
stormdelta@reddit
Nearly every story and even IRL complaint I see is about e-dirtbikes that are already illegal to ride on public streets, not anything remotely close to class 1.
espressocycle@reddit
This.
jaredthegeek@reddit
39 states use the 3 class system. California is one and they a re trying to restrict it further because of idiot e-moto riders and ignorant law makers.
thewimsey@reddit
Mopeds (usually in the form of scooters) aren't uncommon in the US; it's only recently that they've become less common, and that's mostly due to e-bikes.
Because the whole deal with mopeds was that they didn't have to get registered and titled if they met the moped definition (which was typically less than 50cc engine and top design speed of 28 mph).
SomeRedPanda@reddit
Why that system? Why not the EU classification system?
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit (OP)
Not too aware of the EU system, but from reading it it seems highly dependent on technicalities. Enforcement of the 3 class system is a little easier. I've enforced it working at bike parks and it can be as easy as looking for a throttle or if the bike can't be lifted easily.
espressocycle@reddit
It's just hard to categorize this stuff. Amsterdam is banning fat tire ebikes from certain areas but that's based on the fact that many powerful ebikes use fat tires. There's nothing stopping people from riding fast ebikes with smaller tires.
stormdelta@reddit
The EU system doesn't make any sense for the US. Our infrastructure, roads, etc looks very different, and it's not possible to use only cycling infrastructure for transportation in most places.
On top of that, adopting the EU rules would result in basically every current ebike in the US becoming illegal, alienating the entire market and pushing people back towards cars. Which would of course be wildly counterproductive if the goal is increased safety.
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
Listen you little EU shits...
Lostintimeandspac@reddit
Lobbyists and politicians don't know the difference and don't care. Just another case of government needs to protect the ppl from what idiots do.
stormdelta@reddit
That's entirely too charitable a take because it implies these laws were even motivated by safety in the first place. Most aren't, regardless of what they claim, it's about protecting car-centric infrastructure.
espressocycle@reddit
Also ebikes have become the chariot of low income people of color so add that to your otherwise accurate list.
ellipticorbit@reddit
Police don't enforce any laws except at random, also they're stretched thin on the front lines with 4-1 "back office" to duty officers, blue flu rampages through the ranks, so let's pass more laws to be neither respected nor enforced.
LimpPisskit@reddit
If its got pedals, looks like a form of bike, its still an ebike, end of.
AlarmingDiamond9316@reddit
To start, most states have phased mopeds out, my state TX for example has also phased out scooters, even the ones under 49cc, to ride them you need a class M endorsment.
The "ebikes" that go 70mph wouldn't even be classed as mopeds anyway, they would be classed as motorcycles legally, Even their websites state they are Dirtbikes aka motorcycles, the b52 stealth bomber clone states they are E-motos.
For them to be classed as Mopeds the pedals have to actually function, which would automatically DQ Surrons, Telarias and like 90% others.
The Honda cub and Metro are Scooters, not mopeds.
And Again, most states, if not all Have phased out "Moped" as a vehicle type, mainly cuz they are no longer made, now E-moto's will fall under Motorcycles, or scooters catagory.
thereia@reddit
There are riders and companies who behave in bad faith specifically to hide their e-motos under the e-bike umbrella and avoid being responsible people.
DonnPT@reddit
A lot of users, and potential users, who show up here are clearly looking for the closest thing to a motorcycle they can get, without having to get a license. Probably they should get licenses. I forget the statistics, my state requires a license to operate a motorcycle on the road but not every motorcyclist has one - maybe the majority. You have to pass a couple tests.
Moped registration requires a lot of running gear that bicycles don't often have - stuff like brake lights - and I wouldn't be surprised if state authorities work off a list of moped models and it's extra trouble any time you want to register one that isn't on the list. Like cars.
My recumbent can draw 1400W, so some people may think that's moped territory. (If I were a manufacturer, I'd dismiss that an unsustainable peak rate, which it is, and call it a 750W motor, or maybe 250W, whatever works.) Whatever I do with it, replace the controller or whatever you like, I'll never be able to register that. Garage builds are out of luck.
Does that, getting me off the road, solve the problem? Well, of course not, but maybe not "of course", because what exactly is the problem? I mean, of course the problem is really some people, but we sort of have to put up with their existence.
Fun-Machine7907@reddit
The easiest answer to that would be just get a motorcycle. Tons of unlicensed riders around who either ride safely so they never get hassled or just run.
chrispark70@reddit
There really are no journalists in the 2026 English language press. All of them are propagandists. 1/2 the news articles are fake, like entirely fabricated and published for a fee (with "sponsored stories" printed in the smallest typeset money can buy). Most of the rest are rewording of corporate press releases. The rest are highly slanted political articles masquerading as news. This is all subjects, not some favorite of mine.
If we had people working in the press as actual journalists, none of this would be an issue. It would not surprise me (you just cannot be cynical enough in 2026) if car companies were paying them to write all these hit pieces.
"Journalists" are the lowest form of public life. In better days, they would be working as carnies selling tickets to see the fat woman.
miknob@reddit
I totally agree. When I bought my ebike in ‘21 I didn’t know what the class systems meant but I knew what a bike is. What I didn’t know was all the ignorant politicians had already banned class 3 ebikes from all greenways statewide. (Tennessee) So without knowing that I bought a class 3 because it’s got the biggest battery and figured I could go the farthest on it. Not really concerned about the top end. I could ride into the 20’s+ on my own power so just because it would top out at 28 mph wasn’t my main point for buying it. I’ve never been stopped on a greenway but I obey the speed limit. Not that I’ve ever seen a cop on a greenway anyway. But it’s just the idea that they barred it just because it can assist power up to 28 mph. The speed limit on the greenways around here is 15 mph and practically anybody can exceed that on any bike. So to single out class 3 ebikes is nonsense.
Mindless-Concept8010@reddit
Totally agree! Well said. Let’s unite!
Significant-Pen-6049@reddit
In the 80's we had Kawasaki ninja fake bikes lol
AdCareless9063@reddit
These things are designed by the dropshippers to cosplay as legal e-bikes. This sub supports them and has no problem with legal e-bikes taking the heat for this unlicensed e-moto garbage.
The tide has turned. The public has despised them for years and now it's seriously impacting real e-bikes. Likely class 2 and 3 will go away like in Europe.
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
Because most dont have the required equipment to be a Moped. So not,an ebike, but not really a moped either
yaboi_ahab@reddit
Even if they had the equipment, AFAIK most states don't allow titling or registering a vehicle without a VIN and the right documents from the manufacturer and seller. I wouldn't mind paying a reasonable fee and getting insurance but they don't even let you.
Tasty-Ad-9669@reddit
Then in that case an illegal moped
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
So an illegal ebike but with more steps and more money.
Tasty-Ad-9669@reddit
More strict rules too. It'll either improve the market or get rid of all the shit with mechanical brakes and ancient derailleur systems with heavy hub motors that catch fire or end up not working all together
SlashNreap@reddit
Because it's not just about looks and power.
Calling an Ebike a motorcycle is like calling a gokart, or a lawnmower a car "because it has pedals, four wheels and a steering wheel". And in fact, pretending it's that simple makes things worse for everyone, because now you're advocating for machines that are not only not suited, rated or designed as motorcycles, and not made for sustained motorcycle speeds, stress, and use-cases, to be used as that. That makes it dangerous for the user and traffic around them.
You have to understand just what goes into making a modern motorcycle safe, I hope. The sheer amount of development that went into them over 100+ years, standardization, safety norms, etc.. I'm not saying there are not E-motorcycles, there are E-motorcycles, but, contrary to illegally powerful Ebikes, Gas and E-motorcycles have been designed and engineered from the ground up, as a motorcycle, for motorcycle use. Like Zero, or LiveWire, Stark Varg. Every single component's purpose on those bikes was to sustain motorcycle usage.
Things have categories for a reason, it's not simply tied to speed or whether or not is has a throttle. A Surron is a light electric dirt bike because it was designed from the ground-up as one. Not "just" because it's capable of X speed or has a throttle.
Ebikes come from a very, very different context compared to motorcycles and benefit from already-developped technlologies. They yet again are based on bicycles, but their design and engineering stays much closer to modern bicycle DNA rather than straying away from them. Usually, form follows function unless the form is a selling point.
You call a 1909 Triumph a motorcycle to this day because of the context that even with limited technology, the Triumph was designed as a motorcycle, not as a bicycle.
If today an Ebike company decides to branch out, and make motorcycles, they can't just remove the pedals and slap a throttle and call it a day, they'll have to step it up a good notch and make something that conforms to current, modern standards and to whichever motorcycle category they want to settle towards.
And again, there *are* E-motorcycle, E-dirt bikes, E-mopeds, but they have their categories for a reason. You don't just call an Ebike with a throttle and the pedals removed a motorcycle. It just doesn't work like that.
ingannilo@reddit
I'll start by saying I have no dog in this fight, I haven't ever owned an electric bike of any sort, but as a college professor who's watched this thing unfold on my campus, I have a guess...
That right there. People want the vehicle that goes 40mph, but they want to ride it on the sidewalk and be held responsible at the level of a cyclist who pedals their heart out to go 15-20mph. They don't want to have to register, pay taxes, get licensed, have to ride on the street, or be held accountable as a motor vehicle by police when they crash.
Saw a guy pass me while I was going 20mph (campus speed limit) on his ebike last week, on the sidewalk, fly through a red light, nearly get hit by a car driving legally, and the turn around to flip the car driver the bird all while still screaming down the sidewalk at no less than 25mph.
I'm guessing this community is mostly made up of folks waaaaay more responsible than that guy (who was older, faculty or staff most likely fwiw), but people like that make up a nontrivial chunk of the broader ebike community.
Then there's the politics of it. Ebike manufacturers know their sales will dip significantly if their products need to be registered as motor vehicles just due to cost. Also, though, the "I don't drive cause too many DUIs" crowd, which is also a big sector for ebikes from what I've seen, might no longer be elligble to use them.
Sorry if I'm displaying a lot of ignorant bias here. Part of what compelled me to write this is hope that y'all can teach me a thing or two, so I'm totally open to being showed how wrong I am. That said, the observations above are honest. I know two folks that use these bikes to commute and both of them are ineligible to drive due to DUI records, and where I live in a smaller college town, I do see these used recklessly in settings where a bike is barely safe and something capable of higher sustained speeds just isn't safe.
thirtynation@reddit
How about we just keep posting our bikes instead. This subreddit isn't gonna change the world.
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit (OP)
I honestly do view biking as an important tool in a climate and pro-social campaign, but hey! Not an ebike, but todays morning ride by the lake:
thirtynation@reddit
Cool nice bike. Sure better content than the same exhausted, recycled conversation here l.
Just-Smart-Enough@reddit
Some of the people who are trying to solve the world problems are in this sub.
thirtynation@reddit
I bet they are!
InfluenceEfficient77@reddit
It's more than that, it's easier for politicians to ban ebikes than to create safe infrastructure. The public transit is underfunded and technocrats are pushing rideshare/taxi/self driving services. You can't afford free things anymore
This is why there are multiple bills and 95% of the legislators vote yes, despite like 95% of the people here opposing them
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit (OP)
God do i hate that. My reps are one of those, we've had lots of protests over ICE, Trump, rent, and heating bills (cold rust belt city here) and he: just keeps voting against our interests. Love it!
zacmobile@reddit
Here in BC they are known as Limited Speed Motorcycles (LSM) but awareness and enforcement is very lax or non-existent. I see tons of them in this category ripping around without a care in the world from anybody except boomers on FB.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/driving-and-cycling/road-safety-rules-and-consequences/lsm