Ineos Eyes A US Factory, as its Quartermaster pickup is hit hard by the Chicken tax

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V48runner@reddit

Can't wait to read the next review on it.

DID YOU KNOW IT HAS A RECIRCULATING BALL STEERING? RECIRCUALATING BALL???!!! RECIRCUATOLING BALLL!!!! IT DOES. RECIRUCLATING BALL!!!!!!!!

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Whats wrong with pointing out it has absolutely awful steering? All the reviewers were right, they updated the steering, which all the owners coped about despite it IMO being worse than an original defender, & its still awful but not by quite as much as before

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V48runner@reddit

Nothing really. It's just that most of these reviewers heard another reviewer talk about it, so they just regurgitated the same drivel.

It's a design compromise for solid axles and off-roading, which none of these influencers even acknowledge.

They could have just gone with a balsa wood IFS, like Ford did with the Bronco, which I'm glad they didn't.

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Salty-Dog-9398@reddit

If you test drive an Ineos, it's one of the first things people notice. It's the feature that caused my wife to veto purchase of an Grenadier.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

It's just that most of these reviewers heard another reviewer talk about it, so they just regurgitated the same drivel

I don't get that bit, everyone can independently come to the same conclusion that the steering is awful, because it is

& Ineos admitted it is, & changed the system for the '26 model year

It's a design compromise for solid axles and off-roading

These reviewers acknowledge it, its far too compromised even there, you can do solid axles front & rear w/ better steering & self centering

e.x. the autopian review

Ineos will talk to you about how bad steering is just a byproduct of an off-road vehicle with a solid axle design, but this just isn’t true. I daily-drive a 1991 Jeep Wrangler YJ and a 1992 Jeep Comanche; I have owned multiple Jeep Grand Wagoneer SJs, multiple ZJ Grand Cherokees, multiple XJ Cherokees, a Jeep J10, and on and on. All of these vehicles are equipped with solid front axles, and every single one of them has better steering than the Ineos Grenadier — both the 2025 model and maybe even this new 2026.

balsa wood IFS,

You can have acceptable steering w/o going IFS, w/o losing recirculating ball. The previous gen g wagon professional, developed by the same folks at magna, w/ two solid axles, has significantly nicer steering that is still confident off-road

On a well-maintained road, the Grenadier wandered like its alignment was off, requiring constant input to stay in its lane. On-center response is alright, but the steering’s nonlinear response slows down from there, and it’s almost four whole turns lock-to-lock. This complicates any direction change requiring significant steering input, which is a lot of them

My perspective isn’t a rare one, and it’s not just a matter of recirculating ball versus rack-and-pinion like you find in most cars. It’s that I don’t think the Grenadier’s is good even by the lowered standards of recirculating ball.

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V48runner@reddit

You should just link to the other jalopnik article/review if that's what you're going to post. They're just regurgitating the same thing that other influencers have said.

Interesting, the G-Wagon has moved to IFS, even though they had perfected the recirculating ball steering with solid axles, after having been on the same ambulance platform for decades. 😄

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

They're just regurgitating the same thing that other influencers have said.

There is a difference between regurgitating & arriving to the same conclusion independently, everyone independently concluded the steering was sht because the steering was shit lol

Interesting, the G-Wagon has moved to IFS,

On the lifestyle models, not the w464, which is what replaces the W461, separate from the W463/W464

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nondescriptzombie@reddit

Recirculating ball steering feels like shit, but is crazy reliable and durable, and the parts to put it together are cheap and well understood. And you can fit it basically anywhere. Rack & Pinion usually comes with packaging problems if the suspension wasn't designed around it from the get.

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BenekeSmith@reddit

only downside, when its time to rebuild it 20 years later (read: G class) its $$$$

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V48runner@reddit

Honestly, I prefer the feel of them, especially considering I had to change the rack and pinion in my first gen Tacoma after only 90k miles, along with just about everything else in the IFS. :(

Had none of those issues with my '83 or '85 with solid axles in my Hilxes.

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nondescriptzombie@reddit

Two words: king pins.

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mbaran@reddit

I prefer rack and peanut steering.

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MartyCool403@reddit

Rocking peanut steering you mean

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alfredadamski@reddit

A better solution would be ask around car companies that have plants in the US if anyone has some capacity left at one of their plants. Hell, you could turn this into a nice side revenue stream. There are some car companies without any production in the US and that are affected by the current trade barriers. The Belvidere Assembly plant owned by Stellantis is currently unused. It could be "rented" out to some competitors, Ineos, Audi etc. Everyone who has no production in the US would love to have quick fix. And this could ne it. It could be CKD operation or a fully fledged production of many different vehicles from different brands.

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Salty-Dog-9398@reddit

I personally believe that this is the only long term play for Ineos. If I were working in BMW corp dev I would have a JV investment going and be assembling quartermaster knockdown kits in Spartanburg.

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alfredadamski@reddit

Yes, this could be a way. And BMW could in exchange also get their hands on the Grenadier and build a BMW version out of it as competitor for the Mercedes-Benz G-Class, as everybody and their moms seem to have announced to build a rugged SUV competing with the Mercedes-Benz G-Class. BMW could just make the front of the Grenadier look like a 1980s BMW, e.g. the front from the E30 3 series with double round headlights. It could be then sold as the "9 series".

Honestly, at this point, I'd suggest BMW buying the Grenadier venture off of Ineos hands, rebadge it as a "Triumph", as BMW still owns the "Triumph" brand rights from the "Rover Group"-ownership years. It would be then the "Triumph Grenadier". And while they are at it, they could also buy Morgan Motors. Is the new Morgan Supersport not just a rebodied BMW Z4? There then could be combined "Mini-Triumph-Morgan"-dealerships. Triumph then could also offer a two seat roadster based on the Z4 and another compact/mid-size car called the "Dolomited" (I am afraid, just mid-size/compact SUV, as everybody buys SUVs nowadays).

With regard to Spartanburg plant, as it was mentioned already, I am afraid BMW is running already at full capacity and they then would need to add further capacity for the Grenadier, but as there is a market for rugged SUVs in the US, it could be feasible to do so.

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Salty-Dog-9398@reddit

If BMW bought out the entire operation, they'd also get the plant in France, which would put them in a great position to sell the grenadiers as an EU military transport.

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trail-g62Bim@reddit

Last I checked, they were adding lines there because they were at capacity...been a while since I have checked tho. Wonder if that is still true.

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Salty-Dog-9398@reddit

I would imagine this is true. Requirements are very different for CKD/SKD though, you don't necessarily need a full modern production line.

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start3ch@reddit

While that’s nice, most of the machines to make cars are not simply interchangeable between cars. They have to build up a whole production line, with all their own tools

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alfredadamski@reddit

There are simple CKD operations which do not require specialized machines. In Africa there are several CKD shops which assemble cars from CKD kits. One or two of VWs three plants in Africa is/are purely a CKD operation. But yes, if you are planning a fully fledged production, you might need tailor made stamping and other machinery, but it is faster to get it done than to set up a whole new factory. You get this done in 12 to 18 month with the right suppliers. The Chinese are crazy fast when it comes to set-up a plant and get it running.

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bubzki2@reddit

Let’s repeal the Chicken tax.

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WaddlesJP13@reddit

No. You vill eat ze $200k Ford F-950 triple cab.

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Drzhivago138@reddit

950? They haven't made anything heavier than a 750 for decades.

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idontremembermyoldus@reddit

I don't think there was ever an F-950, even when they did. There was the F-800/F-900.

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WaddlesJP13@reddit

Yeah it's a joke.

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Training-Expert5598@reddit

I drove an old 60s F950 dump truck. It was cool. I'd totally restore one and put a bed camper on it if I had the money.

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HEAT-FS@reddit

We can’t, it would devastate our mediocre car manufacturers.

There’s also the fact that the U.S. government will bailout and protect those mediocre car manufacturers because if WW3 happens, they want those factories to start churning out parts for weapons and military vehicles.

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221missile@reddit

Mediocre? The Colorado is a better product than the Tacoma right now.

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HEAT-FS@reddit

Yeah, because the Tacoma is made in North America…due to the chicken tax

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221missile@reddit

The current Hilux is not a better truck than the tacoma.

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SirLoremIpsum@reddit

The current Hilux is not a better truck than the tacoma.

I would say the Hilux is a different vehicle. It has a different vibe, lots of fleet sales. It has to meet widely different needs across the world.

The Tacoma is focused solely on North American concerns. Very much a vehicle designed for one market, one purpose.

The hilux is still available with petrol or diesel, various cabs, tray/tub, 2wd low suspension. Range of engines. (well 2 for the 2025 version), auto, manual. Hybrid.

I don't doubt that the Tacoma is better at what North American s want it for but to me it's just cause the Hilux is somewhat restricted by being everything to lots of different people.

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

Fellas is it bad to have jobs in America

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Booplympics@reddit

He said buying cars not made in America.

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HEAT-FS@reddit

Apparently yes since the people suck at those jobs

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

Yeah man. In fact why have any jobs here at all? Let’s just have AI do everything intellectual and have all the industrial stuff done overseas.

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The_Strom784@reddit

Yeah, I don’t get why they can’t find a decent middle ground that allows for both. But then again, even if WW3 were to break out, I’m not sure that we have enough factories here for that. So many domestic companies manufacture across the sea or the north or south of us.

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ctn91@reddit

HA! okay. Can’t even update turn signal laws or close up the light truck loophole for fuel efficiency rules.

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bubzki2@reddit

Can, but haven’t. Yet.

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MaybeNext-Monday@reddit

And won’t, because they’re stupid laws and therefore the US gov values them more highly than the constitution

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

What specific aspect of the Chicken Tax do you think is unconstitutional, and when are you filing suit to repeal it?

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MasterofPeridots@reddit

That's not the point. The point is that the US seems to protect and enforce these laws more than they enforce the actual constitution.

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

“The US” is not a monolithic entity in these discussions. The chicken tax has been around for 60 years, 11 presidencies, 120 different Congresses, and 28 secretaries of commerce.

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MaybeNext-Monday@reddit

“The US” is not a monolithic entity

Bro’s never heard of the federal government

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

Do you seriously think of “the federal government” as a monolithic entity? Dozens of agencies, millions of employees?

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MaybeNext-Monday@reddit

My bad I forgot something can only be called monolithic if it consists of a single up quark and nothing more.

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

The dictionary is free, kiddo. Maybe someday your parents will give you enough screen time to look at it.

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MaybeNext-Monday@reddit

You’re way to tilted over a throwaway wisecrack about congress my man

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MaybeNext-Monday@reddit

In order:

I didn’t say it’s unconstitutional
Stop being intentionally obtuse
Stop being intentionally obtuse

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

You literally said “the US gov [sic] values them (implying the chicken tax, given that is the subject of this post) more highly than the constitution.”

So what else did you mean, if not that? Go on. Explain it to me like I’m as poorly literate as you are.

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MaybeNext-Monday@reddit

I’m just comparing the value they place on the two things. You came up with any deeper connection all by yourself.

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FSCK_Fascists@reddit

a law does not have to be unconstitutional to repeal it.

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

How many Congresspeople do you think would support the effects that repealing the chicken tax would have on industry in their districts, and do you think those negative effects on local employment would be better or worse than an import tax on small trucks that realistically has no effect on anybody?

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FSCK_Fascists@reddit

a law does not have to be unconstitutional to repeal it.

not sure who you meant to reply to, but this is what I said.

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

Not sure you who meant to reply to, but this is what I said

How many Congresspeople do you think would support the effects that repealing the chicken tax would have on industry in their districts, and do you think those negative effects on local employment would be better or worse than an import tax on small trucks that realistically has no effect on anybody except foreign businesses?

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FSCK_Fascists@reddit

so what the FUCK does that have to do with my reply you fucking moron? off to the ignore list with your stupid ass.

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The-Ol-Razzle-Dazle@reddit

"Capitalism" lol

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

Look man, capitalism is bad and regulated markets are good. I don’t wear the color of hat you seem to think I do.

But for some reason, when they’re used to protect domestic industry, the US is the only country on the planet not allowed to do it. It’s such a bizarre argument you people make.

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The-Ol-Razzle-Dazle@reddit

lol what are you on about? The US subsidizes, tariffs, gives bailouts, etc etc. It's just funny it is a self-proclaimed capitalist society. A general observation that had nothing to do with you personally

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

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bubzki2@reddit

Vote for better politicians all of us.

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StandupJetskier@reddit

ssshhh ! Protectionism is all that is saving the USDM now.....

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Floppernutter@reddit

Time to bolt some plastic chairs in the tray

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airfryerfuntime@reddit

You can't really get away with that now. Mercedes and Ford got in trouble a while back for bolting seats into their vans to import them.

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Se7en_speed@reddit

They got in trouble because they weren't selling them that way

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aprtur@reddit

It wouldn't have worked that way either, from a business perspective, unfortunately. That then increases the cost dramatically to sell them with the seats, as you're not going to sell a vehicle with insufficient safety equipment for those seats. In theory, with the "cheat", Ford could essentially recycle those seats indefinitely to bring the vehicles in and let the customer continue to have a lower purchase price for the commercial van. Having the seats installed through point of sale might as well just be a passenger van and tell the customer to gut it.

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AromaticWhiskey@reddit

In theory, with the "cheat", Ford could essentially recycle those seats indefinitely

From what I remember, the seats were shredded since it was more expensive to ship such a bulky item back. I believe only the steel frames were recycled since the seats were Subaru Brat level compliance seats.

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WaddlesJP13@reddit

Need some Subaru Brat-style jumpseats

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LadyBonersAweigh@reddit

I found an absolutely beat to hell and back Brat on CarGurus for $11K USD and wept for its potential. I weep damn near weekly for that weird little ride, tbh.

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Drzhivago138@reddit

I hadn't heard about M-B doing it. I thought they brought all the vans in as CKD kits and assembled them in North Carolina.

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HoboMinion@reddit

That’s what I was thinking.

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LAXBASED@reddit

Most this company can do to survive is offer them up as leases and fleet service to atleast maintain a minimal threshold of cashflow otherwise they are going to go for broke with the tariffs. Turns out sticking to selling to rich folks doesn’t work out so well when they all have owned or had one.

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PrpleMnkyDshwsher@reddit

The Owner of this company is a raging piece of shit and this only exists to be a cosplay prop for rich assholes who want to play english farmer.

Fuck this pile of garbage.

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A_Pointy_Rock@reddit

I've seen a few of them around here. I am surprised by how much they look like something from the late 2000s when they have only been in production since 2022. I do not mean that in a good way.

I know nothing regarding how they drive/perform etc, but people buying them must be wanting a very specific vehicle if that is where they are putting their upwards of £70k.

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kstetter@reddit (OP)

That's the whole point, they're meant look like an old Land Rover Defender.

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A_Pointy_Rock@reddit

I get the hole they are trying to fill, but they don't really look like a defender.

A 2016 defender looked like a car from the 60s/70s/80s that had been changed as little as possible throughout its life.

These kind of look like a 1990s developing market SUV refreshed c2008 to cosplay as a Defender.

I am sure they are wonderfully capable and pretty reliable (apparently they have a BMW/ZF heart), but if you aren't taking it up rocky trails every other week - £70k will buy you a lot of vehicle elsewhere.

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Dr__Nick@reddit

Interesting. I thought I saw a Demuro podcast where they were talking about how Ineos demand was tanking.

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durrtyurr@reddit

They already sold one to everybody who both wanted and could afford one.

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meodd8@reddit

To be fair, I once talked to a rich dude at my ski slope who said, “I liked the truck so much that I bought another two for my other houses. After all, they are relatively cheap”.

Now, I run into people who complain their airplanes don’t have enough fuel, so they need to stop an extra time or two on the way to Orlando compared to their buddies… so don’t read too much into it, lol.

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Navydevildoc@reddit

Well all us Land Rover guys that wanted one instead of the L663 Defender already went and bought one. It’s kind of a one trick pony.

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hannahranga@reddit

Those that could afford one that is, some of us are still waiting for them to figure out how to make a $20k, rusty and pissing oil 20/30yo model.

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guisar@reddit

Chicken tariff- it’s not a tax.

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fossilfarmer123@reddit

Are they even selling any of these? There's a dealership near me but I never see any on the streets

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Riverrattpei@reddit

They layed off a bunch of people in November/December and refuse to release the 2025 sale figures so it can't be good

They were bragging about selling 8000 in 2024 in the US which means it got outsold by the Miata

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XMAN2YMAN@reddit

Did they not know it would be hit hard prior to this??

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xrelaht@reddit

I think they weren’t expecting 60% of their sales to be in the US.

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XMAN2YMAN@reddit

That’s fair, I was not aware of that statistic.

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

The logical end here is BMW acquiring Ineos and building US market vehicles at Spartanburg

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costafilh0@reddit

I don't think it's worth it. Yes, they would be more competitive and sell more. But enough to justify a new factory?

Perhaps the best argument in favor is redundancy, or even a complete exit from France, which is a terrible country to do business in.

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

Perhaps the best argument in favor is redundancy, or even a complete exit from France, which is a terrible country to do business in.

If you’re Renault or Peugeot, French govt would still bailout you, and you can close factory, layoff, and import your cars to French from elsewhere… Yea, that’s worser than Detroit doing.

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bigloser42@reddit

They might be able to do a knockdown kit that just does final assembly in the US. BMW has done that to skirt similar laws in other countries.

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TowardsTheImplosion@reddit

This would be the most likely solution.

The engine and drivetrain is mostly bmw. There is excess contract stamping capacity in the US for metal they don't want to ship.

Their US plant could pretty much be body assembly, paint and final assembly. Sure, it is jigs and robots, but those are far cheaper than a stamping press line.

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