Some things I struggle with for PPL training - Cessna 172

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Impossible_Sky9384@reddit

Ask your instructor to take you to an airport with a sufficiently long runway (>5,000 ft), and then practice slow flight above the runway surface. Aircraft in landing configuration, bring her down to the surface of the runway, and then slow flight just above the surface. Stall horn will go off, you’re doing the slow flight maneuver just not at altitude. You’ll get a very nice feel for the rudder control input, plus the other control surfaces and how they feel. You may even touch the runway a few times, but because you have power in you’ll bounce back into slow flight. Once you feel more comfortable with the control surfaces, you’ll make a more natural transition to landing the plane.

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AlbiMappaMundi@reddit

Get that bad boy at a 10,000'+ runway.

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CryptographerDeep373@reddit (OP)

This is a great idea I will definitely ask him thank you

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VileInventor@reddit

Are you at risk of landing flat without flaring that much? What’s your height. 2. Don’t over control your over correction, you go too far right so you chase left and then repeat to the opposite direction. Centerline isn’t where you’re seated, it’s your right shoulder and an inch or so further. So slowly correct for it and if you land off centerline it isn’t the end of the world, correct for it but don’t over correct for it. Almost nothing needs a hard input into a plane, hard input = hard output = required correction.

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CryptographerDeep373@reddit (OP)

Yeah a couple lessons before this I was often landing with all 3 at the same time I am about 5’9 and raise the seat to the highest possible position. I also use a seat cushion. This is very helpful, thank you

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VileInventor@reddit

What airspeed are you coming in at

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CryptographerDeep373@reddit (OP)

He tells me maintain 70 on approach then when I flare and nose up we will naturally drop to around 65

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VileInventor@reddit

Depending on your model you can go slower than that, if you’re in a papa model or similar you can go down to 61 indicated for short field. Try 65kts. Your round out isn’t to slow the plane to 65, hours your round out is to dissipate the remaining energy keeping you afloat which is increased in ground effect.

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Zynera@reddit

Sounds like me. I used to pull toward myself and pull down with my left arm in the left seat and that messed up my centerline for years. After I figured out what I was doing I was able to fix it. If you know you aren’t doing this ignore my advice.

Otherwise I would recommend being aware of whether or not you are twisting your arm while you pull back when you flare. That will gently move you (probably) left of centerline. The rudders will point the nose in the right direction. So if you are landing parallel with the lines and not side loaded but off the centerline it sounds like your rudder is fine. Don’t forget about the rudders but maybe need to focus more on what your ailerons are doing as well.

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Forsaken_Cost4608@reddit

It’s interesting to hear this, I actually do this when I’m flying straight and level and start looking outside (for traffic, runway, etc), ill subconsciously turn the yoke just a bit to the left or right and fly casually like that. So much so that I became use to the sight picture of flying slightly unleveled. Took conscious effort to break that muscle memory.

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CryptographerDeep373@reddit (OP)

This is exactly what I do too and he pointed this out a few lessons back. I’ll definitely pay more attention to this and the ailerons especially. If you don’t mind me asking how long did it take you to fix it?

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Zynera@reddit

its super straightforward fix so once you break the bad habits and pattern shouldn’t be more than a few flights to feel comfortable with it. It would come back for me here and there if I didn’t fly as much and other planes would have me rest my arm different or not at all and that is when I stopped doing it completely.

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11colaroja@reddit

It’s likely your ROUND OUT that’s too high, which is normal for students. Normalize thinking to yourself as you come in over the threshold “Low round out smooth flare” Your mind will tell you hey it’s time to round out while you’re still too high out of natural fear of flying straight into the ground. Wait one more Mississippi or two and then round out. Smoothly flare by continuing to add back pressure as you transition your eyes to the end of the runway. Do that enough times and you’ll develop the hand eye coordination of a smooth round out and flare. Your eyes at the end of the runway and the back pressure required to flare and keep the nose of the aircraft where it belongs in the flare will become one thought instead of two.
Using rudder, line the longitudinal axis of the aircraft up with the runway centerline early while on final, and however much rudder it takes, keep it lined up until you turn off the runway. I tell my students to transition from flying the plane to driving the plane in one continuous motion. Be mindful that with a crosswind, as airspeed bleeds off you may need increasingly more aileron in order to stay on centerline as well because as there is less and less air flowing over them the less effective they are. This is a big reason a lot of pilots drift away from centerline right before touchdown you’ve got to fight for that centerline with a little more aileron and rudder than you had in 4 seconds ago.

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kytulu@reddit

A CFI that I flew with told me to pretend that I had guns and I was shooting the numbers... i.e. keep the nose pointed down until I was past the numbers, then round out and flare.

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CryptographerDeep373@reddit (OP)

Thank you !

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Squawk_0877@reddit

Both come down to the same thing, look at the end of the runway, not 5 meters in front of the noseFlare too high happens because your eyes are short, brain sees a big sink rate at the last second and you panic pull. Look far and the flare smooths out on its ownrudder overcorrection is the same root cause.

Close eyes make any deviation look huge, you stomp rudder, plane swings, you stomp back, overshoot, far eyes make deviations look small and your reaction is naturally micro also don't HOLD rudder, tap, wait, see the result, maybe tap again, never a sustained input

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CryptographerDeep373@reddit (OP)

This makes sense , thank you

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Flat_Ad3079@reddit

Look at the end of the runway and fly horizontally and tell yourself not to land. The goal of the flare is to bleed out remaining lift from the wings . This is what you learn in the slow flight lesson, that the nose has to be raised at slower speeds to maintain level flight (because the elevator loses authority at slower speeds requiring more input from the pilot). When you go slower and slower, continue to tell yourself not to land pulling the yoke back more and more. Maintain it as far back as possible and let the main gear touch the runway. Also don’t yo-yo the stick, keep it pulled back, maintain centerline with ailerons and nose with rudder. “Yoke into the wind” and opposite rudder. Occasionally you can see some weird stuff on YouTube of people swinging the yoke all over the place. This will do way more harm than good Stay stoic, have the plane trimmed perfectly and landings will be easy without much input.

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CryptographerDeep373@reddit (OP)

Thank you 🙏

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CryptographerHuge682@reddit

What I used to do and helped me understand landings much better, is when you are approaching the rwy peek quickly to your side window, it was much better and much easier for me to judge my altitude and get the flare on perfect time, the centerline problem I think the best way to fix it is changing view points when you are reaching the threshold, once you are stabilised on the approach and you know that you are going to land within the recommended landing area, stop looking at the TDZ and change your view to the end of the rwy, for me and a lot of more people is much easier to judge if you are deviating using that technique.

Try it and see how it goes, good luck on the solo and safe flights man, enjoy

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CryptographerDeep373@reddit (OP)

Thank you so much I am definitely going to do this next time I fly and I will let you know!

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CryptographerHuge682@reddit

Best of luck man 👍🏻

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AlexJamesFitz@reddit

Put the top of the cowling on the horizon and keep it there. That'll require additional back pressure as you get slower and your wings generate less lift, but go no higher than the horizon.
Related to #1, as you flare, shift your eyes to the end of the runway and keep them there for the rest of your landing and rollout. You're probably looking too close to the nose. You can also practice "looking long" while you taxi.

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CryptographerDeep373@reddit (OP)

This is very good I will practice this next time especially when I taxi. He has told me to look at the end of the runway too but I have a bad habit of just looking at the cowling but I am trying to fix it

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AlexJamesFitz@reddit

Might help to talk yourself through it out loud: "Power idle, eyes to the end, nose to the horizon."

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Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

How is your seating position? Some 172s have height adjustedable seats. If you're on the shorter side, you might need to get a cushion to have a good sight picture over the nose even in the flare.
Where are you looking when on the runway? Ideally, you should be looking towards the end of it, as it will help judge you your position in relation to the centerline better, and in turn help you make smaller and smoother corrections with the rudder pedals.

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CryptographerDeep373@reddit (OP)

My seat is as high as can do and I do have a cushion, but I can certainly try to fix my posture a bit to sit up straight to get a better view if that makes sense
As soon as I am about to land I look at the end however once I land I look at my flaps to retract them which takes focus off the runway. Similar to #1, when I flare super high it makes it hard to see so I would definitely benefit from sitting up straighter

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aidirector@reddit

Are you retracting flaps for the touch and go?

If so, consider doing full stop taxi backs instead of touch and goes so you can focus entirely on the landing rollout and not preparing for the immediate takeoff.

If you are doing a full stop landing, ignore the flaps during the rollout. Stay on centerline, get slow, then exit the runway entirely before executing your after landing checklist.

Yes, flaps up is part of the short field landing technique for maximum braking, but the electric flaps in a 172 aren't realistically going up fast enough anyway, and skidding off center line is going to hurt your stopping distance just as much. Aviate first!

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CryptographerDeep373@reddit (OP)

Thank you yes I am, I will definitely talk to my instructor about this!

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agrockett@reddit

Look out at end of run way. Before take off. When landing make look the same. Oh sorry that’s taildragger way. Well keep flying flaring till tail almost hits

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nhorvath@reddit

other tips you've gotten so far are good, but I want to call out you don't maintain centerline with rudder, you do it with aleron and use rudder to point straight ahead so you don't side load the gear.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Hi all,

I am about to solo and I have a few things I struggle with in the pattern that I was hoping some of you guys could help me with. If some of you have also struggled with the same thing and were able to overcome it, I would love to know!

The flare

One thing I struggle with is the flare. Me and my instructor have noticed that I flare very high and because of this I cannot see the end of the runway in the flare. When this happens, I lose directional control and I end up landing off centerline and it takes me a while to stabilize, get back on centerline, and take off again. Any idea how to fix this?

Maintaining centerline

Kinda connects back to #1. Just when I land, I struggle to use rudder to maintain centerline and often go back and forth trying to stay straight. I often overcorrect myself and I can’t figure out why. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!

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