Muslim bros, what's up with this?
Posted by Meteorstar101@reddit | greentext | View on Reddit | 222 comments
Posted by Meteorstar101@reddit | greentext | View on Reddit | 222 comments
ISwearImAnonymous@reddit
Tf is AYYS
femalienboy@reddit
Lurk moar
PlzSignHere@reddit
People love to hone in on this part of Islam but people fail to realize that the other 2 main Abrahamic religions have “strange” facets to them as well.
I doubt the average Muslim is waiting on 72 fresh, weirdly youthful virgins in heaven, just like how I doubt the average Jew will take advantage of the Talmud’s position on having sex with children, just like how I doubt the average Christian enjoys molesting children. These religions had their scriptures written at a time where societal norms were obviously insanely different and backwards, and I fail to see the point in using these criticisms to call out any religion in particular.
The vast majority of the practices of these religions are non-problematic, normal people. This is fear-mongering for the sake of creating division for no good purpose
Zetafunction64@reddit
Fair point, so do people get like updated versions once a century?
TofuDofu23@reddit
It’s a great point about how societal norms and morals change and evolve throughout the ages and it’s very difficult to vindicate certain aspects of a religion, but who the fuck here asked for you coherent reasonable take?
If a muslim man wants 72 virgin Japanese Ju On’s it’s his wish you mouth breather. Ishmallah you infidel
rvanasty@reddit
Yep - and the Catholic Church has no problems with molestation right? Same with Jewish? Gtfo out of here. Its all fronts for pedos. Always has been while they scam weak people.
demideumvitae@reddit
EzucraAaAa@reddit
The teachings of all three can be boiled down to "Do not be an asshole" and "Don't be an asshole to God"
Most of these scriptures are about prophets or God himself just saying "Hey could you not do that? That bad stuff? Don't bro. Just don't??? I don't like it and You guys won't like it and its bad."
Normal-Reference-834@reddit
Me when I've never read any abrahamic scripture
slobcat1337@reddit
This is a completely reductive take. That is not what all 3 can be “boiled down to”. They’re chaotic messes, there is hardly any coherence to them at all. The Old Testament/Torah is full of stuff applicable only to the time it was written and makes zero sense now. It’s full of contradictions and moral allegories that have very little mortality to them. I mean, God literally calls for genocides, and murders children.
Try to actually read some of the Old Testament. It doesn’t take long for the weird shit to appear.
Also this isn’t a typical reddit anti Christian take, I’m personally agnostic. Just found this comment to be an absolutely absurd take.
PlzSignHere@reddit
Exactly! These criticisms often come from extreme, one-off interpretations of religious texts, and people just lump them into their common beliefs while totally disregarding any context because they want to justify hatred towards a certain religion. I’m not saying every religion is perfect of course but people love to pick and choose when it comes to criticizing religion without realizing their religion themselves likely has weird, extreme interpretations that could be used to criticize them as well.
Mushiren_@reddit
You're wasting your time, man. No one on 4chan argues in good faith. It's just for the lulz.
_eleutheria@reddit
Bruh, Islam could be the coolest religion if instead of 72 minors Allah gave his believers 72 western infidel MILFs. But no, the dudes that made up the Quran had to be a bunch of weirdos.
Not that the dudes who made up the Old and New Testaments are any better... Heck, the Catholic seems to love little kids just as much...
Might_of_Stormrage@reddit
The individual actions of the priests who are unfortunately put in the position of power to exploit the trust of children and the community does not equate to an entire religion and culture that promotes this shit.
CrazyElk123@reddit
I dunno man, their prophet married a 9 year old girl. Not very cool if you ask me.
Cuck_Boy@reddit
Virgin Mary was 12, so
DarknessAndFog@reddit
No, she wasn’t. That’s a misconception. Like Mary Magdalen being a whore, which is also a misconception.
Cuck_Boy@reddit
That’s not true lol. I studied theology in an academic setting. Just because you say it’s a misconception, without sources, doesn’t make it so.
TimeKeepsPassing1@reddit
Historians and Shia Muslims agree that she was of older age, reports of that marriage are based on narrations made 200 years after the prophet's death.
Drspeed7@reddit
Funny how muslims had no problem with their messiah being married to a 6 year old girl for 1300 years but as soon as it's frowned upon, she's suddenly older.
bfg9kdude@reddit
It's intentional, back then it was a greater concern to depict her as a virgin, than as an adult, because everyone married children anyways. Nobody doubts a 9 year old being a virgin.
In reality, her age is debatable, it's widely accepted the marriage occured around 623 AD, after the migration to Medina, but she's also mentioned to have accepted islam during the first year of revelations, which is 13 years prior.
Plenty of other events that conflict with her age as well, and the only source for her being 6 at the time of marriage, is alleged to be her own words, yet it was written 200 years afterwards. Islam explicitly sets the age of marriage to be governed by the state laws, or if there are none, girl must at least start her period, and whoever justifies their actions by saying Aisha was 6, should be condemned. Why the fuck would anyone still be using the laws from ancient Arabia.
trialtestv@reddit
Because Islam is apparently timeless that’s why these people do what they do. Also there’s a historical consensus that she really was 6 at marriage and 9 at consummation. Muslims saying otherwise are heterodox who can’t handle their perfect prophet being a nonce.
bfg9kdude@reddit
I just did a little bit of research and found something interesting. Arab girls, especially among the nobility, and Aisha as the daughter of Abu Bakr was considered of noble family, counted age from puberty, which is called a Mu'ay ceremony. There were no birth certificates or records at the time. I'm not sure why this doesn't get mentioned more often.
Furthermore, Mohammed's first wife was 15 years older than him and has been with him for 24 years as his only wive before her passing. Pedophilia is a mental disorder where a person is sexually attracted to children. It would be weird for a pedophile to marry a woman that older and be with her for so long.
tid_burglar@reddit
he married her at 6, just didnt fuck her until 9
PyroKid883@reddit
Oh good he showed some restraint /s
FencePaling@reddit
He should have married two, then they'd be 18.
Smooth_Maul@reddit
Allah in the afterlife reading this
ienybu@reddit
Well, he married the wife of his son and she was a bit older
Mikethederp@reddit
Technically he was an adopted son, but because he wanted to bang his adopted sons wife he changed the Quran to make adoption not count as family. So he disowned his son and then banged his waifu.
ienybu@reddit
I suspect all this adoption had one purpose
Accurate_College_864@reddit
consummated at 11? or am i misremembering? doesnt make it much better though...
koknesis@reddit
nope. consumated at 9. married at 6
Accurate_College_864@reddit
at least he waited what a gentlemen 🤢
yoimagreenlight@reddit
no, he married a 6 year old and had sex with her when she was 9.
CheeseStick1999@reddit
Yeah but in this virgin he'd have married a western infidel milf, which is rad as hell 😎
googlin@reddit
maybe they weren't in his area back then? milfs seem to be in my area often these days according to ads
koknesis@reddit
YoungDiscord@reddit
there were no laws against kids, batman!
Aktaii@reddit
Respect for recognizing that the church does it
JustChillin3456@reddit
This your first time on reddit ?
JustChillin3456@reddit
Public school teachers molest more children than the Catholic Church
_belteshazzar@reddit
The New testament? nice bait
Citizenwoof@reddit
The virgins aren't from the Quaran, they're a dodgy translation from a poorly sourced hadith.
The correct translation is probably raisins.
Mentally__Disabled@reddit
At least there's one thing for all forms of religious people to bond over in spite of their differences, touching kids.
Gobbler_of_Cock@reddit
That's not in the Quran tho. The 72 cherries thing is from a text that came after Muhammed.
IIRC the Quran makes some reference to "companions" in heaven but it doesn't say that you have to be a jihadist to get drowned in unstuffed pussy
Hyperversum@reddit
Look, the Church has nothing to do with the Bible. I am far from being Faithful, but Jesus himself is extremely based
isimsiz6@reddit
Almost as if all of these religions are based on book written over a 1000 years ago and back then this wasn't considered weird.
Realistic_Living1221@reddit
Isn’t the word of god supposed to be eternal and timeless though?
isimsiz6@reddit
Yeah they all say that lol
Alternative_weeb47@reddit
Islam literally has nothing to be cool about Everything boils down to fcking women
Vike92@reddit
What do you mean it wouldn't be cool to give up alcohol, weed and pork if it means you get bitches in death
tid_burglar@reddit
they fuck goats too so idk
LadenifferJadaniston@reddit
“Women” requires adulthood
creeper6530@reddit
Especially children
C_umputer@reddit
Getting western milfs has been their sole purpose for centuries, so much so that some of them even look kinda white.
LunaIsMyNameSoHello@reddit
The Catholic Church having the scandal doesn’t mean it’s the teachings of the church. People that want that kind of thing will seek positions which allows them to do that
deanrihpee@reddit
i don't know anything about what this post or people here are talking about, but i am agree MILFs would have been better
anonareyouokay@reddit
Exactly, I need someone that knows that they're doing.
85K5@reddit
72 western infidel MILFs, that's what I think everytime i go to a PTA meeting.
DanishFlower@reddit
Of course the breasts are you”just beginning to swell”. It’s Islam we’re talking about.
YesIam6969420@reddit
Allah should allow customization of the 72 virgins. Mix and match between races and body types 🤔
no_4@reddit
I demand Skyrim character editor at minimum.
Haeguil@reddit
BBWArchitect@reddit
Perfection.
Absolutemehguy@reddit
TODD HOWARD YOU DID IT AGAIN!!
sweetbunsmcgee@reddit
How many fucking times am I gonna have to play this game against my will?
Terrible-Handle@reddit
If you weren’t such a milk drinker it wouldnt be against your will.
Skyrim is for the nords!
Sesemebun@reddit
We’re gonna need. 16 times the virgins
PyroKid883@reddit
They just work
auggs@reddit
Todd Howard…what a man you are… 🙏🙏😎
internetlad@reddit
KABOOM
"Hey you, you're finally awake."
ZachF8119@reddit
Why would you need to customize when 72 lusty Argonian maid base models could be chosen?
thoughtlow@reddit
gotta be oblivion character editor
r/OblivionAbominations/
ReturnRadio@reddit
Bring me my 72 lusty Argonians
internetlad@reddit
What is their profession?
googlin@reddit
knob polishing
_BlackDove@reddit
Wiggie49@reddit
No no no, one of each race…and the rest are lusty Argonian maids
Pee_and_flee@reddit
Think big and ask for cyberpunk character editor so you can adjust the size of the cock
Spong_Durnflungle@reddit
Think big indeed my friend. Think big indeed.
Timekeeper98@reddit
With additional CBBE support built in.
Hawt_Dawg_II@reddit
70 huge fat bitches and 2 ovens for them to make me food with
Biggu5Dicku5@reddit
"Sixteen times the detail..."
- Allah
G3nghisKang@reddit
It just works
G3nghisKang@reddit
Imagine going to heaven and the character creator is like: "body type A / body type B"
VoodooLoveDr@reddit
I think Allah would be really upset with the amount of Femboys middle eastern men like
rvanasty@reddit
No, its sanctioned. They are some of the gayest.
YWNBAW12345@reddit
Die a Muslim Have to pick the penis sizes of 72, 11 year old xirls
Mfw
StormOfFatRichards@reddit
Todd Allahd
SeingaltUNo@reddit
kyngslinn@reddit
Nothing surprising here boys.
TimeKeepsPassing1@reddit
This post has no sources and none of the things stated have any basis in Islam. The "72 virgins" comes from a narration outside the Qur'an that is regarded as inaccurate to begin with.
kyngslinn@reddit
Okay. This isn't true then.
Doesn't change that muslims overwhelmingly refer to a pedophile as the most morally pure human to have ever lived.
Dahrk25@reddit
Explain pedophilia.
ExcitementBright9381@reddit
Fucking 9 year olds
Dahrk25@reddit
Nope. It means a preferred sexual attraction to children. None of his wives where children. You would be stupid if you didn't acknowledge what the criterias of adulthood are.
Which are mental and physical maturity. And anyone with a basic knowledge of history knows that has changed over the centuries.
So stop parroting idoicy and use your brain.
TheKingOfTCGames@reddit
Shes 9 bro
Dahrk25@reddit
How does that respond to what I said?
decoolegastdotzip@reddit
So he’s not a pedophile because he only married one 6-year-old? And because she was a brave 6-year-old?
Dahrk25@reddit
Can you not read?
octopuscharade@reddit
SHE 👏🏿WAS 👏🏿 FUCKING 👏🏿 SIX.
Dahrk25@reddit
Answer the question.
Yanko-@reddit
☪️ancer
Dahrk25@reddit
Illiterate.
Yanko-@reddit
Yea yea pedo war worshipper, trully a perfect life and man lol
Dahrk25@reddit
Like whats the point of saying this? you are not the first ignorant idiot, I have met.
decoolegastdotzip@reddit
Age of adulthood is not fixed, but I’m pretty sure it was never at 6. And I also believe that marrying a 6-year-old and consummating at 9 is reprehensible no matter what time period you did it in. Just like slavery was always bad even though black people were not deemed as full intelligent persons back then, because that definition was also not fixed.
Dahrk25@reddit
Finally, we are somewhere. Neither do I. I am not fully convinced she was 6 or 9, thats why I tried to avoid mentioning her age. However, our opinion doesn't matter. 7th century customs isn't even remotely to the 21st century. So yeah, how we see things greatly differs
Also, the conditions for marriage in Islam is if the person has reached mental and physical maturity. The prophet does not disobey God. So am I sure not matter what her age was, she was a woman. And if this complaint about her age only began in the last century, doesn't that mean we are wrong? More Islamphobic and hateful people have been attacking Islam, but this is a recent argument.
"Just like slavery was always bad" What if you defeated your oppressors. And rather than killing them all, you took them as slaves but your community still supports treating them well and freeing them, if they are able to pay ransom.
Cry_Havock@reddit
Once again proving why we need a Christian Nation.
needledicklarry@reddit
Oh sure yea cuz Christians definitely don’t have a recurring pedophile problem right?
kyngslinn@reddit
Nice bait, champ. Maybe post something more believable next time and you'll get the attention you want.
asscop99@reddit
Is that true?
BaltazarOdGilzvita@reddit
No, as with most religious scripts, they are mostly fiction and function as propaganda.
Live_Carpenter_1262@reddit
Yes, houri as beautiful women gifted to devout Muslims after death are part of Islamic scripture (Quran) though some muslims interpret it as Muhammad trying to describe how awesome heaven would be rather than actual fact.
The "72 virgins" that martyrs supposedly receive have weak basis since it comes from the hadiths which is basically just reports of what the Prophet Muhammad supposedly said rather than actual scripture.
Islamic scholars dispute the authenticity of hadiths all the time because many of them are written decades after the prophet died.
Thedran@reddit
So it’s kinda like when the Book of Enoch or the Kabbalah, generally not accepted by scholars and the average follower but loved by conspiracy/magic people?
VoodooLoveDr@reddit
Islamic scholars cherry pick harder than any other religion
Ask them if Christ is true and if the writings of his followers are true
You immediately get massive contradictions
They have no basis of faith. They are basically Mormons with and added thirst for violent conversion of anyone around them
fudgemental@reddit
My brother in Christ, Jesus is named, by name, in the Quran more times than Muhammed is (peace be upon both of them). Of course we believe in Christ; literally one of the 5 pillars of Islam is belief in all of the past Prophets and Holy Books (Scrolls of Abraham, Psalms, Torah, Gospel, and the Quran).
We just refuse to believe he was the direct Son of God, which even he says, just that he was directly blessed by God.
GalaXion24@reddit
Which does mean that Islam believes in Christ while rejecting writings by the followers of Christ and rejecting what by all accounts Christ actually taught and said.
I do think "Mohammed said Christ said" is fundamentally a lot less reliable than "the apostles said Christ said," and the Bible makes quite clear that Jesus is the son of God and is God. It's pretty unambiguous about this.
I don't even believe in either religion, but trying to claim Jesus as a real prophet while rejecting his divinity has to be the most contradictory position some religions hold.
Whoop-Sees@reddit
“The bible make it quite clear that Jesus is the son of god and is god. It’s pretty unambiguous about this”. It’s actually incredibly ambiguous about Jesus being god, so much so that the majority of bible scholars do not believe jesus made divine claims.
Dahrk25@reddit
Nope. Silly you. Top Christian scholars agree the bible has been corrupted.
fudgemental@reddit
Huh? Prophets aren't divine by default? Even Muslims don't claim the divinity of Mohammad. That's such a Catholic way of looking at things.
It's not though, the Quran is literally over 500 years newer than the New Testament, and as for authenticity, there's literally only 1 Quran that was compiled after the death of Mohammad that exists today, not the different versions of the Bible that exist (King James, English Standard, Christian Standard etc.) which itself throws shade at the authenticity of the books (which book is 'more' authentic? Then why isn't it the only one being followed?)
Muslims believe that there is just 1 God, and His divinity is an absolute quality, unique only to Him. You can't have multiple things labelled as Divine, not how that concept works, for Muslims.
GalaXion24@reddit
Yes? So much further removed from the historical life and teachings of Christ?
Also, the "different standards" you're referring to is... I don't know, some kind of complete misunderstanding of what you're talking about at least. Those are various translations into English, not multiple "versions" of the Bible. Theologians tend to learn Koine Greek for a reason, and that is the original authentic version as far as anyone is concerned. No one is going to argue that, if there might be a lack of clarity, King James somehow trumps the original Greek.
Many Bible translations also include extensive annotations about the original Greek wording and about its meaning or possible interpretations.
As for this, of course not, but the thing I'm getting at here, is that if you accept someone as an authentic prophet, then if that prophet taught he was literally God himself, then how can you reject his explicit teachings while still claiming he was an authentic prophet? And what is the point of following him as a prophet if you claim his teachings are lies?
ILoveGratedCheese@reddit
There are over 20 verses in the King James bible which are not present in other editions. Sounds a lot like different version of the Bible does it not ?
GalaXion24@reddit
Could you please tell me which ones exactly you're referring to?
fudgemental@reddit
I love that you're talking to me rather than just spewing hate like the others are, so thanks for that.
I didn't know that the original version of the Bible that they're all translated from is a Greek dialect. My thinking is, didn't Jesus primarily speak Aramaic, Hebrew and some Greek? God's message has always been bestowed upon the Prophets in the language of their people, which would've been Aramaic in case of Jesus, right?
So the Greek book is also a translation of another book?
Also, the Greek translations seem to have been compiled a full 1 to 2 centuries after Christ himself. And they're a collection of books compiled from various sources, not just one.
That's a long game of telephone, is all I'm saying.
GalaXion24@reddit
The four canonical gospels were written between 65 and 100 AD, so at a time when Christ was still in living memory and people who had met him were still alive.
They were written some decades later, but all within the century. It is probable that some intermediate texts existed in between as well which were used as references in writing some of the ones we have. It is in any case a very short game of telephone.
It should also be added that the Old Testament itself is compiled from many books and versions as well as oral traditions written down long after the fact. The New Testament is in this sense a much much simpler case than the Old Testament.
Now Jesus did indeed speak Aramaic, but there is nothing particularly special about Aramaic, it was just a major language in the region at the time. He spoke Aramaic for the same reason the Gospels are written in Greek, it's what the target audience best understood (Greek was the Lingua Franca across the Eastern mediterranean, and the Apostles had left to preach in places like Antioch and Alexandria).
The New Testament also includes the Letters of the Apostles. This is relevant because these are letters written by the Apostles while still alive, weighing on on theological questions which early Christian communities faced. Now it should be said that some of these letters are almost certainly ascribed to apostles after the fact, and so there is some scholarly debate about them, but the majority are accepted to be written by the Apostles themselves, and only a minority are debated or considered to be written by their successors.
At the very least, they certainly give us a very good idea of what the followers of Christ during his life and immediately following his death actually believed. It is thus very difficult to challenge the historical fact that early Christians who lived contemporaneously with Christ believed that he was the Son of God and had died and risen again. This does not mean that these supernatural things must be true, but it does mean that they are very likely what Jesus taught and what his followers believed.
For any alternative interpretations, one would have to start digging into non-canonical gospels (apocrypha) and most of them are written much later and not considered canonical gospels for a reason.
Getting back to the canonical Bible, it should also be said that it contains four gospels which are four independent texts by separate authors from the first century AD, all of which cover the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. They focus on different perspectives and may include different stories, but their overall message is the same. This should at the very least lend further credence to the fact that these teachings are not just the opinions of one guy, but widespread, agreed upon views among early Christians about who and what Christ was, how he lived and what he taught.
The consequence of this is that if Jesus was an authentic prophet with true teachings, he must also be the Son of God. For this not to be the case, it requires the conspiracy of all his Apostles crafting a false narrative about his godhood and resurrection, and no one breaking ranks or telling "the truth" from any of Jesus' followers who knew him in life. But if this were to be the case, then we have no reliable accounts of Jesus' teachings at all, so whatever he taught and no matter how authentic we cannot follow it because we do not know it.
If the story of the Son of God were to be a deliberate lie merely to gain popularity for his message, then it would at least seem likely that Jesus would been a part of and mastermind of this conspiracy, rather than a victim of it.
Hazza_time@reddit
Something being written 500 years closer to an event makes it more likely to be accurate not less.
rvanasty@reddit
That is just false and is purely and opinion rooted in ZERO fact. In some cases its possible, but in no way an automatic law.
Some of the reasons modern text can be less accurate:
Lack of Primary Source access Modern Agenda/Bias "Publish or Perish" Culture
KazakiriKaoru@reddit
Because christianity is no longer what it was. They fucking worship a method of torture ffs.
GalaXion24@reddit
No one does that
Floral-Shoppe@reddit
Paul didn't even know Jesus or live near him. He was just some guy who saw everything in a dream and said that everything Jesus & Jews of that time practiced was no longer necessary because his dream told him so.
GalaXion24@reddit
This is somewhat of a misrepresentation of Paul, but even that aside, the Gospel of Paul is lot the only gospel, so whatever one's stance on mosaic law is, the basic teachings of Christ and beliefs of early Christians remain the same. It also seems that other apostles do not contradict Paul in this and that Christ's teachings are at least easy to interpret in such a way as to make Mosaic law irrelevant.
Simple-Reporter9102@reddit
Muhammed was a false prophet, and God is a superstition.
Jesus is either a false prophet, delusional, or was made up by Paul.
Islam branched off of Christianity, Europeans even called Muslims an odd Christian Sect.
fudgemental@reddit
Sooo, just a matter of perspective then? You're welcome to your perspective, let others enjoy theirs.
VoodooLoveDr@reddit
You are not my brother in Christ. You and your tradition use his name only for gaining followers.
Your own scriptures disagree with you.
How can the Injeel be true while you at the same time call Christians liars?
You believe the gospels but also reject them?
Is God a liar?
The gospels don’t speak of Jesus being saved from the cross.
Why did you change his story?
fudgemental@reddit
Notice how you mentioned 'Injeel' and not the New Testament. The Word of God sent to Jesus is absolutely not the Bible we have today. If it was, there wouldn't be multiple different versions of it. It's not difficult to understand, we believe in the version that was sent to Jesus and the other prophets personally, not the edited/abridged versions that exist today.
The Quran states that he was about to be crucified but was saved, I don't know what you mean by that statement. You realize that Easter is an actual holiday being celebrated by Christians all around the world right? How hard is it to imagine that the crucifixion may have failed and Jesus was alive and well 3 days later? That's the version Muslims believe.
Surah Nisa in the Quran directly says it: "They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it was made to appear to them so... Rather, God raised him to Himself", which can be interpreted as death by some, but the way it's written implies it's being physically raised to God.
Abc123rage@reddit
Go blow something up
duva_@reddit
RomeosHomeos@reddit
They literally are now trying to claim that Aisha was an adult
fenian1798@reddit
Hadiths are wild, man.
Not only second-hand accounts, but often third- or fourth-hand (and so on). It's a literal game of telephone; the hadith will be like "Muhammad said you're not allowed wear a red t-shirt on Wednesdays. I heard this from Tom, who heard it from Dick, who heard it from Harry [etc]".
Unsurprisingly, there are some Muslims who only believe in the OG Quran and think the hadiths are bullshit. Which is a theological position called "quranism".
But what blows my mind is that quranists are a tiny minority and are considered weirdos (at best, or heretics at worst) by most Muslims.
Live_Carpenter_1262@reddit
I agree but as a Christian, I don't find "quranists" being heretics that crazy.
The trinity isn't explicitly found in scripture, being formalized three centuries after Jesus died yet Unitarians and Jehovah witnesses are the "weird ones" for not believing in the trinity.
VoodooLoveDr@reddit
Yes 3 centuries… but if you think about it in modern terms..
America is almost 300 years old and we still try to formalize our beliefs while having a strong base structure
Christianity formalizing over 300 years is a lot different than ….
A random Arab guy showing up 600 years after Jesus, making a fan-fic of the old and New Testament and killing anyone who doesn’t agree.
Shit on the New Testament all you want, but the first books dated are within 30-60 years post Jesus, with supposed first hand accounts.
Muhammad basically Joseph Smith’d himself to a world power… thanks Silk Road
Luname@reddit
To build a bit on your point, the first pope of any christian church is Saint Mark himself, who, after Jesus' death, went to Egypt and founded the Coptic Church.
p3chapai@reddit
Not disputing you on the hadiths but like, the gospels are also second, third hand accounts. They were written long after Jesus was dead by people that never met him. Then you got the letters by Paul etc...
viciouspandas@reddit
Yeah that's because the Haditya are still super important. The time of the calendar for Ramadan literally comes from there
SmoothGur@reddit
The best part is, you can't actually deny the Hadiths. They are a core part of Islam for explaining the life of their so-called "perfect" and final prophet (who, mind you, married a 6 year old in a time it was unorthodox), and adding additional context to Quran verses.
Also, you're wrong on the front of saying that those Hadiths are of weak grading, as the primary narrations that mention the 72 virgins (such as Sunan Al-Tirmidhi and Sunan Ibn Majah) are all graded Hasan Sahih, which means they're reliable and authentic, and can be trusted as being true things Muhammad talked about.
So yeah, if you die a martyr in Islam (which means you die for God [such as dying in religious war] or in a tragic accident), you get to bang 72 ayys, or perhaps 2 ayys and 70 women from hell.
VoodooLoveDr@reddit
They’re nothing more than motivational books for Arabs with flowery language.
Every religion has those, Muslims just act like they are scripture because they’ve always been run by zealots
SmoothGur@reddit
Sure, bro, I guess. But that doesn't deny the importance (or the reason why they are importance) of the Hadiths in Islam.
VoodooLoveDr@reddit
Yeah man. People write things all the time.
Why are the hadiths special?
SmoothGur@reddit
(first, note that I myself am not a Muslim, and I've only researched it mostly out of a desire to combat it as a Christian)
In Islam, the Hadiths are a chain narration that comes from people who knew Muhammad, so they could learn more about how to perform worship rites and emulate the life of Muhammad, as they believe they need to live like him because he's their perfect moral guide. They're important because the Quran is very iffy on those kinds of specifics, and rarely ever touches the life of their prophet.
Those narrations also attempt to clarify verses of the Quran (as the Quran is illegible a lot of the time).
TLDR: Islam needs the Hadiths because without them, their religion is basically nothing but vague gesturing to Allah.
RomeosHomeos@reddit
Nowadays they are trying to do damage control and claim Aisha was actually 19. You know, the girl who was stated to be playing with her toys and stated by her own self to be 6.
_-___-__-_-__-___-_@reddit
Isn’t the New Testament also just second hand reports of what supposedly happened? And partly second hand reports 70 years after Jesus.
Why is the Hadith a weak source but not the NT?
TheMediocreZack@reddit
Thank you for taking the time to explain
soboshka@reddit
I dunno but it doesnt need to be true to continue spreading this information
slasher1337@reddit
According to wikipedia yes, except for the age part
roktoman@reddit
Qur’an
Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī
Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim
Jāmiʿ at-Tirmidhī
Sunan Ibn Mājah
Musnad Aḥmad
MentalAerobatics@reddit
It’s in 4chan. What do you think?
Ryengu@reddit
Of course it is, it's on the internet isn't it?
LordPopothedark@reddit
Especially r/greentext, which sources its posts from the most sane and reasonable website definitely not influenced by rhymes-with-Effrey or any other shadowy figure with ulterior motives at all.
itay162@reddit
The word for could also be translated as raisins but the people blowing themselves up aren't doing it for dried fruit
Lime-Ciggie@reddit
Poor translation interpretation (likely intentional) and odd leaps and bounds of the n o n c é angle. To clarify, I am not Muslim or follow any religion. This post is just ignorant
Yanko-@reddit
✝️rash
Yanko-@reddit
Test to see if reddit also bans this one
hs0ne@reddit
muslim here, we don't talk about them that much matter of fact most of muslims at least as far as I know don't even know about them, I've heard non-muslim(atheist and christians ect) talk about those more.we just care about getting closer to our creator more than thinking about those types of things (English isn't my first language btw)
BowlsDeepRamen@reddit
Every day when I think this excuse for a religion can't get more disgusting, I'm corrected when see shit like this
TimeKeepsPassing1@reddit
You get "corrected" when you see a bunch of claims with no source whatsoever that are all false if you bothered to look?
BowlsDeepRamen@reddit
Fact checked this, it's true. Only redeeming thing I found that it meant to be "sYmBoLiC" which say basically nothing and still doesn't counteract the fact that multidudes of warriors and fighters went into battle for underage girls they could fuck for eternity
FMC_Speed@reddit
I’m gonna be that guy :
Source?
TimeKeepsPassing1@reddit
No sources, the "72 virgins" is from a weak hadith to begin with.
The sole purpose is to dehumanize Muslims, just look at the comments here.
HalalTrout@reddit
The actual description of the Houri is that of large beautiful eyes with a dark iris like people with brown eyes today. If they are described by Allah swt as beautiful then they'll be beautiful to us Humans, as he's created us to find them beautiful.
There is nothing in the Quran or ahadiths describing their height and they are not humans, they do not have an "age", there is nothing in the Quran or Ahadiths they'll be 72 of them infact Paradise everybody will be married to another human being.
These people are the same people behind culture war baiting, 4chan and Reddit was and is a Mossad psyop controlled largely in part by Jeffery Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell so every accusation is a confession atill.
asma_pq@reddit
To anyone who's denying what is stated in this pos,
here are some texts that I gathered, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. I will not offer my opinion, just relaying them as they are.
*Note: The word "Nawahid" is the plural of "Nahid", and its root verb is "Nahada", meaning to rise, stand out, or become elevated. This definition is found in all Arabic dictionaries, not my interpretation. Furthermore, the say that "Kawa'ib" and "Nawahid" are synonyms is nearly in all books of "Tafsir" (exegesis), not a term that I chose to fit my opinion.
"And for every one of them will be two wives; the marrow of the bones of their shins will be seen through the flesh because of their beauty" (Sahih al-Bukhari 3245 / Sahih Muslim 2834)
"In them are women limiting [their] glances, whom no human has touched before them nor a jinni" (Ar-Rahman 55:56 - Source: Saheeh International)
"And made them virgins" (Al-Waqi'ah 56:36 - Source: Saheeh International)
KalyterosAioni@reddit
I have many problems with tafsirs. The word kawa'ib derives from the triconsonental root ka'b, which means prominent, eminent, glorious. The fact that people use the word prominence to refer to forming breasts is how language works, adapting new words, not changing the original definition. It's like in English we call it budding, but that's a term for a part of a plant.
So the Qur'an using a word for glory that I'm some contexts can mean something else isn't relevant, and it's clear that people who wanted to justify their urges for children made sure to promote certain readings.
Yet the verse itself is only saying that those who have done good deeds and entered heaven will find "splendid companions well matched", stressing the absolute mutual compatibility and equal dignity of them.
TimeKeepsPassing1@reddit
Lol "tip of the Iceberg".
The 72 virgin hadith is weak to begin with.
The term virgin in Arabic means "BKR - A virgin - anything untouched, new, fresh."
There are both male and female companions:
76:19
And will circulate among them young males made eternal when you see them you would think (Hasib-tahum) pearls (Lu’lu-an) scattered (Manthuran)”
And as for the term Kawa'ib, despite the popular understanding of the word ‘Kawaiba’ as a reference to youthful women, it should also to be noted that the root – ‘K-AYN-BA’ has an underlying connotation of prominence, splendour, something which is physically prominent, of nobility, glory or anything elevated. It is also a reference to a square chamber or building. What will come as a surprise to many is that the same root is used in the word ‘KABAH’ in the Masjid Haram, the Holy sanctuary. Hence, some commentators continue to render ‘Kawaib’ as ‘splendid companions’ or ‘companions’.
asma_pq@reddit
I know that the 72 virgins hadith is wea, that is why I didn't mention it. I should've clarified that.. my bad.
No shit. An "untouched" woman is literally a virgin. Now if you find it normal that very time Allah describes "Houris" their virginity is the focal point, then I’m not going through that debate.
Every classical commentator I went through (Ibn Kathir, Al-Tabari, etc.) interprets Kawa'ib in a physical, sexualized sense.
Again very commentator I went through interpreted "Ghilman" as servants for the People of Paradise, not sex toys for women. Even if that were the case, that wouldn't make it any better.
Furthermore, there are several texts stating that every woman in paradise will have only one husband. If she was married to more than one man during her lifetime, she have to choose only one of them for eternity.
Now If you want to be a 'cute Muslim' and rebel against the entire weight of Islamic heritage, that's more than fine with me. In fact, I'd love to see it. But at least have the courage to be honest and clear about it.
G3nghisKang@reddit
Muhammed was just a weeb before it was cool
Nonexistent_Purpose@reddit
Ayy lmao
WordsMort47@reddit
Wtf are AYYS?
Only_drunk_posts@reddit
The Greys. Aliems
superanth@reddit
It’s all fun and games until the SCP Foundation breaks into your afterlife and contains your eternal reward harem.
Mrwright96@reddit
_BlackDove@reddit
Only_drunk_posts@reddit
fudgemental@reddit
That punch looks limp-wristed as hell
airfryerfuntime@reddit
Is he punching the air?
Cry_Havock@reddit
Give me 72 South African 20 Year olds and you have a deal. Make them all dark skinned and I'll convert others.
WoolooOfWallStreet@reddit
Shit, It's Roger Isn't It, It's Gonna Be Roger?
eyemwoteyem@reddit
I am a simple man, just looking for a normal hairless, black eyed white irised, transparent skin that allows to see the marrow, saffron- and camphor- made woman. Is it too much to ask?
Mercurion77@reddit
Ayy lmao
Eva_Pilot_@reddit
Don't post this on r/masseffect or there'll be a peak in religious extremism
Danat_shepard@reddit
I'm going full Lisan al-Gaib if 72 Talis are promised in eternal heaven
dr_shark@reddit
Yeah I kinda like Zendaya too.
anonssr@reddit
I'm down if the houris are blue tho
Mikethederp@reddit
72 Pre-pubescent lil grey Aliens?
Take me to your leader bro, we needa talk
Too-many-Bees@reddit
72 9000 year old dragon lolis
VoodooLoveDr@reddit
Mohammed is hitler on steroids mixed with Mormons and paganism
TimeKeepsPassing1@reddit
You know literally nothing about Islam, Trinitarian Christianity is far closer to Mormonism and Paganism than Islam.
This image in the post is full of rubbish, the 72 virgins claim to begin with comes from a weak hadith and has no basis in the Qur'an. Comparing the Prophet to Adolf when it is explicitly stated there is no compulsion in religion (2:256), to seek peace with those who seek peace and to only fight those who fight you (2:190 and 8:61) as well as explicitly abolishing racism (49:13) is absurd and merely displays your ignorance.
VoodooLoveDr@reddit
Sounds like you don’t know anything about any religion you’re referencing
I don’t care about the weird 72 virgins thing.
I’m just worried about the fact that the Quran literally says that the old and New Testament are truth, and Jesus and his followers are blessed..
But also… they are all liars
Weird right?
sovietarmyfan@reddit
I'd rather have 72 Mothers I'd Like to Fry rice for.
geoff1036@reddit
Greviator@reddit
Why is there a praying mantis with a big dick going super sayian in the background????
googlin@reddit
why the hell not?
Aijin28@reddit
So 72 Momo creepypasta's?! I'm in!
LocalInformation6624@reddit
Now explain the giant praying mantis
epilepsy_ray@reddit
This is why 9/11 happened
Accurate_College_864@reddit
i didn't know about them being underaged but they are described as young so who knows 🤷
Fucked-In-The-K-Hole@reddit
Houris? More WHOREis am I right
theDablerJPEG@reddit
(no reference cited)
slasher1337@reddit
According to wikipedia the eyes part is in quaran.
Just_For_LOL@reddit
Yo what do women get? 72 teen boys?
creeper6530@reddit
Women don't get anything in Islam, least of all rights. That's why Islam sucks so bad.
white_equatorial@reddit
They get the chance to reborn as a man
real_picklejuice@reddit
white_equatorial@reddit
Ok_Two_2604@reddit
So it was inspired by an alien abduction and probing. Nice.
VoodooLoveDr@reddit
Nah Based on Jewish traditions in the region, mixed with paganism, and a touch of Christianity
Mohammed is and will always be the greatest grifter of all time. While also being 100000 times worse than hitler when it comes to ethnic cleansing
Icy_Magician_9372@reddit
I pay every day for the same.
YoungDiscord@reddit
"No you see she's actually 1000 years old so its not weird"
Icy_Magician_9372@reddit
ddg31415@reddit
I'm pretty sure the Quran or spme Hadiths say that heaven will half hairless, young, reclining boys for your services.
Aliens or little boys. I guess both would he virgins...?
OrcaoftheFuture@reddit
The painting was made by david huggins. Lets just say that I believe in alien abductions, but even his testimonies are just too much to believe in.
magnidwarf1900@reddit
Yeah I'd take it
mylaptopredditVC@reddit
weird fetish