thoughts on PHEV vs full EV?
Posted by dawn_thesis@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 86 comments
Fossil fuels cause climate change, but in a bad situation, charging infrastructure might break down before gas goes bad. Aside from off-grid solar (yes, I'm doing it :D ), what are y'all's thoughts?
hollisterrox@reddit
EV all day every day.
My specific EV has some real goofy choices made in the software on it, which is regrettable (VW ID.4), but most EV's don't seem to have that issue.
"Charging infrastructure".... Neighbor, I have a level 1 charger that plugs into any 120v outlet and charges the car, and there are so many ways to generate that current it's ridiculous. I don't have to use a Level 2 or level 3 to charge, that's only if I'm trying to get it done really quickly. In a 'bad situation', I'm unlikely to be driving anywhere, but if I did it would be a quick out and back. If I'm evacuating, it's still fine, I've always got it at 80% charged and can practically go 180-200 miles on that charge. If I need to evacuate further than that, well, it sounds like things have gone very, very wrong and I can't plan for something that big.
Fheredin@reddit
I can tell most of this sub can't do math. Yes (in theory) an EV can be charged with a solar panel, but in practice most home solar power banks either can't charge EVs or will take forever to do so, and will displace power you will need for your home while you try. If your transportation needs are modest (~1 trip per week) and you must have a climate controlled vehicle, sure.
Otherwise, get an e-bike or an e-motorcycle if you are concerned.
Also, PHEVs are unicorn cars. Most manufacturers do not make them, anymore.
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
I charge my lightning on my solar, offgrid. I push about 5kw during daylight hours which is only slightly less than the 7kw that's more normal in grid tie.
Granted I have a large solar system.
Fheredin@reddit
An EV battery is between 50 and 100 kwH, and you will probably get about 10 hours of usable light per day. And, of course , the round trip efficiency of the system is probably about 80%. So it will take you about two full days while using power for nothing else to charge an average EV.
Now I don't think you will be charging from empty every day, but this isn't like overnight charging from grid power. Topping off the battery will take about a day while significantly cutting into how much power you have on hand.
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
Yeah i mean I'm doing it and have been for a year now. We upsized our solar system to handle this, panels are cheap. With the exception of the darkest shortest winter days it's been fine.
And like you said I'm not charging from zero. Most of my driving I'm home at ~60% and I go a day or three without driving so back to 80-90 is pretty easy.
For long drives (I'm in bfe nevada) i hit public charging stations so I dont really ever arrive really low.
It's different than gas for sure but it's been fine.
fenuxjde@reddit
The gas will be gone before the sun.
The trick is finding an EV with the batteries that last longer than an ICE engine on the last of the gas.
digitalwankster@reddit
This is most batteries. One of my best friends is still daily driving a 2013 Model S.
anthonykaram7@reddit
But with how much of the original capacity/range?
jjohnisme@reddit
Even if it's 75% after 13 years, that's still quite far. 250 ish mile range or so, I think?
anthonykaram7@reddit
Yep, that would be good. I was asking because I have a coworker who drives an old Nissan Leaf and he's down to something like 20 miles of range on it with a full charge. It only works for him still because he lives really close to work. Anyway, maybe the Tesla batteries last longer.
TenOfZero@reddit
Those first leaves were not the best. Batteries are way better now, as is the way we charge them and temperature control them to extend their lives.
anthonykaram7@reddit
Makes sense. I (and my coworker) live in Phoenix so battery temp control is a big deal.
BarrelCacti@reddit
They recalled the ones they sold specifically in Arizona because the heat killed the batteries so quickly. One of the few EVs sold without any way to cool off the batteries.
anthonykaram7@reddit
Oh wow - I'll have to ask my coworker if he knows this.
twostonebird@reddit
Early gen Nissan leafs are notorious for their poor battery management, they were incredibly poorly designed. Luckily essentially no other evs have the same issues
gonyere@reddit
Yeah, I wish the leaf had more range.
williaty@reddit
As a mechanic: Get either ICE-only or EV-only (I personally prefer EVs). All of the versions of a hybrid get all the problems of an ICE car plus all the problems of an EV. I get why people feel more comfortable with them but from a complexity-to-maintain standpoint, they're a disaster.
With my current solar setup, I can charge our EV. Extremely slowly, but I can still get there. Good enough to run into town once a week or get fully topped up to move ~250mi as an evacuation.
greasyspider@reddit
Imagine being so indoctrinated you think that fossil fuels are a better choice🤣
Efficient_Wing3172@reddit
If you are in a situation that you’re able to have two cars, just have one of each.
twaddington@reddit
This is the answer. One EV one Diesel.
NorthSpecialist6064@reddit
Why diesel? What does that help when fuel stops being produced?
DaLadderman@reddit
Diversification, could be a situation that effects EV's or electricity more like with hurricanes, flooding and solar flares taking out sensitive electronics and power for weeks or longer (including home solar) in which an ICE vehicle with stored fuel would be better off especially in the short term.
NorthSpecialist6064@reddit
I don't know how you expect any surving ICE vehicle would be immune to solar flares any more than an electric car. Sure it might work in the south but in the north EVERYTHING that's still around it's heavily computerized.
Electricity being out for weeks means your precious gas pumps can't deliver fuel and you're not going to be hand pumping out of underground tanks. By week 2 enough people will have some sort of electricity generation that you might be able to get by, but will probably be able to charge an EV. A few months in communities will start to reform and electricity will probably be quite high on the list. Fuel refining, not so much. Definitely not for anything beyond lighting. Electricity being a physics thing means it's relatively straightforward to find stuff capable of making it. Alternators picked from stranded ICE vehicles, small engines from garden equipment or solar panels taken from somebody, batteries, inverters. That's really all the equipment you need to get power to an EV. Keep in mind you aren't going to be making any cross country treks. Yes, I hear you in the back. You're still wrong.
There isn't likely to be a "short term" collapse that happens fast enough for prepping knowledge to be very useful. If it's only a few weeks long you're going to be struggling for far, far longer than that.
iambecomesoil@reddit
I can run my 6.9 IDI off of nearly anything. Old motor oil mixed with water filled with garbage? Filter it and let the water separate out and it’ll fire right up.
InsaneNorseman@reddit
Yeah, the IDI engines are pretty forgiving, but the newest model year for the IDI was 1994, if I remember correctly. That was for the 7.3, the 6.9 was even earlier. So the very newest examples are 32 years old right now; I've got one sitting in my driveway, and while the engine is pretty bulletproof, the rest of the truck is definitely showing her age.
iambecomesoil@reddit
Mine's an 86 F-350 flatbed cab and chassis. In a SHTF scenario, I'm perfectly fine with my reliable old farm trucks. The trim is showing its age but mechanically and structurally its in fine condition. I live and my trucks are from an area with mild winters that doesn't use salt so we don't have midwest/north east rust problems.
I had the bed off my 95 recently and its so clean Lmao
InsaneNorseman@reddit
Old, mechanically injected, non-computerized diesels are known for being able to run off of a lot of different fuels, such as waste vegetable oil, used motor oil, used ATF, kerosene, home heating oil, blends of the aforementioned with old gasoline that wouldn't be good enough to run in a gasoline engine, and various versions of biodiesel.
As someone who was a professional mechanic, I can say that pretty much any diesel manufactured in the last 35 or 40 years is NOT going to respond well if you try to run most of these "alternative" fuels, with the possible exception of some biodiesel blends, but people really don't like hearing that particular truth; they all insist that any diesel will happily run on anything that is even remotely petroleum-adjacent. That is just not the case, and while certain diesels can be made to run on these fuels, I strongly suggest doing some seriously in-depth research before you try it.
NorthSpecialist6064@reddit
I've used raw new canola oil in a HUI engine before. It ran fine, smelled odd. Common rail? I wouldn't even try it.
Anything that's MUI or HUI just isn't going to be on the road anymore. It's a nice thought, easy to think about, but they're not going
InsaneNorseman@reddit
For anyone who is confused by the acronyms, HUI is Hydraulic Unit Injection, MUI is Mechanical Unit Injection. These are purely mechanical systems that went out of use by the early to mid-1990's, and should not be confused with HEUI, which is Hydraulicly Activated Electronic Unit Injectors.
The first two can be more forgiving of alternative fuels, while the latter one is way more finicky.
Even the early mechanical systems need extra prep work to run alternative fuels. Waste vegetable oil needs to be filtered to 10 microns, and in-tank heaters are used to keep it from congealing. People mix up all kinds of blends of gasoline, commercial diesel, and other ingredients to try to keep them running, with mixed results.
HEUI systems, like Ford's Powerstrokes and International/Navistar T444E and DT466E, can exhibit extreme "coking", aka carbon buildup, when running alternative fuels. I've seen quite a few Powerstroke valves with so much buildup on the stems that they choked out airflow to the point that the engine wouldn't run. Earlier engines may also be susceptible to this, but I've seen it more often when tearing down engines from the mid 90's to mid 2000's.
Common Rail systems are the modern systems, post-2007 or so, and they definitely won't be happy with any nonsense when it comes to homebrew fuel.
Famous_Formal_5548@reddit
And a motorcycle 😉
Well-inthatcase@reddit
Real. Even a dirty bike would be a massive benefit.
2Loves2loves@reddit
or a Ebike
Waste-Relation-757@reddit
I feel very prepared with my PHEV, wouldn’t trade it for anything else.
silasmoeckel@reddit
For me if it cant tow it's not worth having prep wise.
Ram rev is the first EV that makes any sense for me. 160 miles ev range when not towing and just put gas in for longer.
dawn_thesis@reddit (OP)
what the hell! They need to get their marketing time going because I've never even heard of this. What! If only they made a small like, like the old Tacomas.
silasmoeckel@reddit
Kia strange enough is supposed to be developing a mid sized body on frame truck with this setup. BYD has one but not sold in the US.
dawn_thesis@reddit (OP)
I have a Kia currently and it's not bad. Some minor quality issues. I'd be very interested in a Kia PHEV truck.
dawn_thesis@reddit (OP)
BTW do you have this Ram truck, or is not released yet?
silasmoeckel@reddit
Not released yet. They have pushed it back a couple times and I'm putting off replacing my current truck till it's out and had a couple years to work out the bugs.
Kia is interesting, that space is heating up with the maveric doing well.
digitalwankster@reddit
The new Silverado EV has 500 miles of regular range and around 250 if you are towing.
silasmoeckel@reddit
No gas engine onboard and with a real trailer it's testing out at 175 or so.
My point is as a practical prep vehicle it needs both.
Toasterstyle70@reddit
You can always generate electricity in many different ways. Making fuel? Not as easy.
BusWho@reddit
Phev is better for real world use... For prepping naaaa.
You want an old 90's erra diesel motor, you can run it off biodiesel or basicly any hydrocarbon fluid that has been filteterd properly so you don't plug the injectors.
Imagine my 1991 f350 driving down the road with duel fuel tanks (standard) and five 45 gallon drums of filtered biodiesel, waste oil etc. I'm going to go way further and haul alot more stuff than your 2025 Prius with solar panels on the roof. Your gonna be limited to a radius of what a few hundred km/miles before you can't go any further because you need a system to charge it...
Meanwhile every town, heck every vehicle I come into contact with I can take the diff fluid, transfer case, oil, transmission fluid out of and filter it into my fuel tanks. I can store waste oil wherever I want, pickup more storage containers...
But to run that truck today is expensive because its not "fuel efficient". That's why it sits as a backup vehicle.
NorthSpecialist6064@reddit
What's going to happen when all the fuel runs out, whatever it ends up being? Are you going to refine crude or seed oil for your 7 liter V8 mowder?
DisgruntledSquirrel2@reddit
The EV with the solar panels will charge back up - eventually.
NorthSpecialist6064@reddit
When the world goes to hell in a handbasket, you will very quickly learn rationing. If you had an ICE car, you'd be hardly driving it in the apocalypse. An EV is gonna be the same way, but you can actually drive it again after it runs low on go go juice
Jerry_From_Queens@reddit
I have a PHEV - a Toyota Rav4 Prime. It gets 42 miles entirely on electric, and then another 400 or so via gas.
99.9% of my driving is within 40 miles, and I rarely touch the gas. I can charge every evening at home and be with a full battery the next morning. I love it.
I also have a 15 year old Toyota Corolla, which has 175,000 miles on it and I expect will outlive me. It gets driven 1-2 times per week; otherwise, it sits in the garage glaring jealously at the newer Rav4.
If you're privileged enough, I would do 1 of 1. But do keep an eye on the electric range of a PHEV.
dawn_thesis@reddit (OP)
Uff I looked for a Rav4 Prime but it was out of my range. Went with a niro hev instead, for now. How do you like it for off-roading, camping, etc?
Jerry_From_Queens@reddit
Once I replaced the factory stock Yokohama tires, it really helped with the overall driving experience. Great for camping, long trips, and hauling gear.
Big-Preference-2331@reddit
I got a horse, an EV, a Tacoma, and an old F-250. Each one serves a purpose. Oh, I also have an electric bike. I think the electric bike is the most useful for zipping around my homestead. It's quiet and can pull small things around. I put a wagon on it and use it to haul hay or tools. The EV is great for driving around town, and I can charge it at home. I also use it as an emergency backup when the electricity goes out. I live in Arizona, and AC is pretty much a necessity in the summer. When the electricity goes out for short periods, I sit in my Tesla and watch Netflix until it comes back on. One thing I have been thinking about is the mileage range if you didn't exceed 20 mph. Since going fast burns your battery, I'd think going super slow will extend your battery mileage much farther than reported.
LastEntertainment684@reddit
I went full EV with a Ford Lightning.
It has some advantages: It’s very efficient, has very little maintenance, I’ve driven through water that killed combustion vehicles, it can out accelerate most vehicles, hybrids have a statistically greater fire risk, I can get hundreds of miles off a variety of fuel sources vs 10’s of miles with a PHEV, etc.
The biggest downside is the fill time. If you’re recharging off anything except a DC fast charger you have to account for it taking hours. Best way to do this is just to always give yourself a decent buffer.
I back it up with a ‘94 Diesel F350. Slow as could be and an absolute pig on fuel but it’s pre-computers and emissions, stick shift, and will do over 1,000 miles with the auxiliary tank.
NorthSpecialist6064@reddit
"Taking hours" is nonsense bullshit. You sleep for 8 hours a day.
Comfortable-Story-53@reddit
F350 diesel? Woof! That's an awesome beast 😀
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
I have a lightning, people able to charge via my solar panels is fantastic. The slow charge issue I've just gotten better with doing other things, trying to strategically charge by something else i need to do.
And while I think it's mighty prepper plus to be able to charge off solar it's slow (5kw in my case), if there's an area power outage and you need to charge you have zero options.
With gas or diesel you can bring spare fuel, like you indicated, and a lot of it.
I've got a dirt bike and my wife has a hybrid so there's options, but definitely pros/cons.
Driving for free though really is nice.
LastEntertainment684@reddit
You can charge via a multitude of off-grid sources. So far I’ve charged my truck off solar, propane, natural gas, gasoline, and diesel.
You just want to make sure you have a L1/L2 portable EVSE that has an adjustable amperage and a generator bonding plug.
J+ Booster 2 is the most versatile I’ve found but expensive with all the adapters. The Grizzl-E mini is smaller and significantly less expensive, but you have a bit less versatility.
NorthSpecialist6064@reddit
Full EV. Are you going to be set up crude oil refining for fuel in time for you to actually use it? No.
"Charging infrastucture," whatever the fuck that oil industry term means, will go down at the exact same time oil infrastructure goes down. No electricity, no fuel production. Forget about additives that modern fuel has, too.
Electricity is extremely easy to produce, you can do it in a million different ways, and the electricity is all the same. You need inverters and batteries, but that's easy to get. Making an amount that can charge an EV is extremely trivial with today's technology. You can use water, wind, and/or solar to charge one in the event of total collapse.
Unicorn187@reddit
Batteries are much worse than burning fossil fuels. Strip mining for the lithium. By diesel powered vehicles, then transporting that lithium, again in diesel powered vehicles. Then the fuel used to provde power to the plants that make them, then the diesel ships to transport them to Japan, Europe, or NA to put in the cars, then transporting the cars. Then the power used to charge them. Then the nightmare of disposing of these toxic batteries when they reach end of life.
p-x-i@reddit
PHEV is like dual booting windows and linux. It's better to have separate dedicated machines. If you are going to plug-in, it might as well just be an EV.
myOEburner@reddit
I rented cars for about a year. Had an electric car for two weeks. A electric Benz. It's was cool, but I'd never buy an electric car after that rental. Way too limiting. Way too hard to fuel. You're always thinking about where you'll plug in next. If my work didn't have a charger, I don't know what I would have done. Wall charging on 120v isn't enough.
In terms of just basic, reliable transportation, a good fourbanger is really hard to beat.
Useful-Contribution4@reddit
You want both. Get a full EV. Have your own solar to charge it during grid down situations. Or better yet a portable solar. A 1kw packout solar to stick in the car is so feasible these days.
Then for second vehicle. Find a beater vehicle to work on. Mechanical fuel injected diesel engines are the best because you can use used motor oil, cooking oil etc. But EFI injectors won't last long and you will eventually break the engine.
You can also do something like a Kei truck. Cheap, easy to buy spare parts. Easy to work on. And get 35-40mpg.
Free_Broccoli_1174@reddit
Diesel motorcycle or trike?
SignificantGreen1358@reddit
A couple years ago, I bought a 2015 Chevy Volt PHEV with a salvage title and 110,000 miles. I drive it to work and all over, and charge it at home, either using grid power or from my solar system. I installed an inverter so I could use the 11 kWh battery to charge my 11 kWh home batteries at 1 kW if needed during winter or whatever. Or to power other things up to 2 kW for a short time. I just bought another 11 kWh battery to expand my home battery setup. Anyway, I really like the car and my system. The Volt gives me 40 miles on battery only on a good day and 30 on a bad day due to weather, cold, using the heater or AC, etc. The 9-gallon tank is small, but it's efficient and gives about 40 mpg.
I wouldn't want to be driving around during SHTF, and the car can't hold much anyway, or go off-roading, but it's definitely an asset.
Many-Health-1673@reddit
If shit gets bad, I don't honestly care if what I am driving or if my tractors are not eco friendly. The main thing is you need them to work. If you absolutely need them to work, then mechanical operated diesels that are pre emissions are the way to go.
I have 1 tractor out of 9 that has any type of emissions on it, and it was purchased under a certain horsepower to keep from using DEF. It does have DPF. Everything else is from the 1960's, 70's, and 80's and has no computers and no emission controls.
dawn_thesis@reddit (OP)
The point is, SHTF is only one possible outcome. In the meantime we also have to do what we can to fight climate change, and for those of us who can only have one vehicle, how do you balance those interests?
Many-Health-1673@reddit
The best vehicle for not contributing to climate change would probably be a bicycle.
dawn_thesis@reddit (OP)
100%
ElectronGuru@reddit
My ultimate setup would be a solar trailer. Left at home, feeding house batteries and other systems most of the time. Then towed with an EV as needed for long distance travel. Balanced with panels so 1 or 2 charging days = 1 driving day. Basically off grid travel.
Cheap_Cap760@reddit
I'm assuming that mining for the components for to create "green tech" is far from green, massive strip mining equipment and of course the obvious slave labor used to mine in 3rd world countries. Then those same minerals are processed in the same 3rd world countries with absolutely abysmal pollution levels making any efforts in the west negligible at best. Then those batteries and components are shipped via diesel freighters thousands abd thousands of miles across to ocean. Then they are eventually installed in vehicles and driven till they die and are stored as hazmat since the vast majority cannot be recycled.
They have a solid place in the preppersphere but not because they are somehow good or even remotely better than internal combustion for the environment
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
I have a Tesla Model S and my own solar panels with battery bank. So I can charge it all on my own.
That is the best case if you can afford it.
Comfortable-Story-53@reddit
I don't feel like you really have the option of trying to be green in a full out SHTF scenario. It would be all hands on deck, you'd be happy for anything that works.
dawn_thesis@reddit (OP)
for sure. but in prepping we can prepare for full SHTF, but doing that could mean we're being irresponsible citizens, and there can and should be some recognition of that.
Comfortable-Story-53@reddit
I have a solar setup and a gas generator. So far so good.
IamNana71@reddit
Last year I fired up my push mower which hadn't been started in over 2 years. I started up and I used it with no problem. I refilled it from the can that I hadn't used in over 2 years and still ran with no problem. I only use unleaded, no ethanol in my lawn equipment though. I am not against stabilizers, I just wanted my grass where the dogs go cut shorter, so decided to fire up push mower. Mowers sit in a detached garage.
user577us@reddit
If you must, a gas electric hybrid is ok for mileage. Thinking anything all electric or plug in electric will work in even a plain, old run of the mill natural disaster ignores the real world results of EV's in disasters so far. 1) California wildfires: burned in their garages because the grid had already been destroyed. 2) Chicago: a frozenTesla grave yard at charging stations because it was too cold to charge. 3) Texas: lost it's entire power grid during a winter storm because they'd chosen to switch from fossil fuel sources to green energy production and when there was demand, the grid couldn't keep up.
If you're truly serious buy a diesel vehicle. You have more fuel options besides what comes out of a gas pump or plug. And fossil fuels are still the most compact and cost effective methods of storing energy for moving people and things.
Also, EV's are not maintenance free. Not to pick on Elon but if the SHTF do you think the limited certified Tesla repair facilities are going to be open? Are those guys showing up for work? Bonus, Teslas that sit for long periods of time without being charged have a problem turning into giant chemical bombs that's can't be extinguished.
There's a reason most vehicles in the third world are diesel.
Joe-_-Momma-@reddit
Any electric car is a joke. I personally believe hydrogen is the best future fuel.
TheCarcissist@reddit
Whats your recipe for making hydrogen at home?
Canadian-Footy-Fan@reddit
Considering the op is taking about societal breakdown I am not sure you would want to rely on undeveloped hydrogen infrastructure. And the idea that electric cars are “a joke” is a silly political opinion. A friend has a Chevy Bolt and solar panels and he would be able to drive long after the gas goes bad.
BusWho@reddit
You don't know much about wcient and math then..
TheCarcissist@reddit
I was watching Greenland 2 (im a sucker for disaster movies, dont judge me) and there was a scene where a guy salvaged a ton of solar panels and used the ev batteries to run his homestead. Kinda made me think
dawn_thesis@reddit (OP)
I'm using off-grid solar in the city :D solar is definitely great for long term.
Haven't heard of Greenland film. I also like disaster flicks. Thanks for the rec!
knowskarate@reddit
Vehicular choice is important in these discussions more on that later...
gas last 2-6 months under normal storage stabilizers can extend gas out to 1-3 years.
diesel lasts 6-12 months under normal storage stabilizers can extend diesel out longer.
Grid will go down in a less than a month maybe less than a week.
Solar panels last 20+ years. Batteries last 2-10 years depending on battery and charge cycles.
Solar has the added benefit of powering home appliances
Vehicle choice is important for numerous reasons on both sides. Lets assume you have new tires and want to drive 50k miles. F-150 gets 20 mpg, you need 2,500 gallons. VW Jetta gets 40mpg down to only 1,250 gallons. Even for things like ATV your still in the range of 15 to 25 mpg. Large storage tanks will cost you $10k to $25k. Plus cost of fuel and stabilizer. @$3 a gallon might run another $10k.
For electric vehicles. Even 1 solar panel and a converter will give you very limited milage. In a F-150 lightning you are at 98-131kWh of battery so for a 10kW( which is decent sized) solar array it will take all day or more to charge and you will not have spare capacity. For small cars like a chevy bolt have 60kWh and could be easily charged with lower capacity solar. Smaller vehicles such as golf carts have a 5kWh batteries and can be charged with even smaller arrays. E-bikes also have very small batteries and can be charged with glamping or tail gating solar/battery chargers.
For short term Tuesdays preps either is fine. For TEOTWAWKI you will probably run out of tires before fuel becomes a huge issue.
IMHO solar is more versatile and more stealthy and tends to scale up better.
Own_Exit2162@reddit
Right now a plug in hybrid or extended range EV is the way to go.
The old Chevy Volt was such a great car.
Primary_Highlight540@reddit
Id love to hear the consensus on this too. I feel like relying only on EV would be dicey. (Not able to get solar). We recently ordered a plug-in hybrid.
Waste-Match-3955@reddit
PHEV seems like the sweet spot for prepping tbh. You get the efficiency for daily stuff but still have that gas backup when the grid goes down or you need to bug out somewhere without charging stations. Plus way easier to store a few jerry cans than trying to rig up enough solar to keep a full EV topped off in an emergency.
Primary_Highlight540@reddit
This is my thinking
digitalwankster@reddit
I'm driving a 2025 Hummer EV right now and love it. I have a massive solar system and the Hummer is essentially a rolling 200kwh battery bank. I don't have the GM Home Energy system but I do have a 20kw battery bank and an 18kw inverter that I could wire a generator inlet to if I needed to convert gas into electricity (or use the hummer to power the house).