Who's the problem here?
Posted by symbolofnope@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 235 comments
I called a mobile bike repair guy yesterday and left him a message, asking if he could fix the derailleur on my mom's ebike (Ride1Up Core 5). He texted me back today and the following conversation ensued. I need your opinions on this. Which one of us is crazy?
AnythingButBiscuit@reddit
Bike shop owner here and I can assure you there'd be no abnormal insurance risk for me to replace that derailleur. I think a lot of shop owners are confused about their liability and/or have terrible or no insurance.
At the end of the day though, a shop has the right to set their policies however they want within the law.
What bugs me here is that the mobile mechanic apparently changed their policy after accepting a job and is making the customer pay for that. That doesn't sit right with me. Customer shouldn't have to pay anything here. Not the customers fault that the mechanic wasn't familiar with the bike or that they updated their policy after incurring some costs.
AntEaterApocalypse@reddit
Not sure if he's technically right or not but I also can't blame him for being so cautious either. Bike shops and mechanics are getting inundated with law-skirting death trap ebikes and they want to avoid dealing with them as much as possible for liability reasons.
wisemonkey101@reddit
A bike mechanic should be able to make the call on what bikes they are comfortable working on.
GingerSnapBiscuit@reddit
They should be, but they aren't. I was told by a bike shop near me they are only insured for certain brands of e-bike system and if they work on something else and something happens their insurance is void.
Cyclopath_13@reddit
That response sounds suspect, but purchasing insurance is above my pay grade.
viper8823r@reddit
They do it on cars.
flippertyflip@reddit
This is pretty much what the guy in question did.
MariachiArchery@reddit
As one of these bikes shops and mechanics, I cannot understate the validity of this comment right here.
Fucking bingo. Check this out, https://tracxn.com/d/trending-business-models/startups-in-electric-bicycle-manufacturers/__cx_hm8cMWGDoZLfw0uyDMcSJAkh3E2fJtqomGN92-zk#about
In 2020 alone, there were 128 ebike startups in the US. Like, what the fuck. And, the vast majority of these have gone under. These companies pop up hoping to ride a wave of new tech, spew a bunch of garbage into the industry, and then fucking go bankrupt, because again, their products are trash.
128 bike brands... in one year... can you name even 12 normal bike brands off the top of your head? Try, I'll wait. Fuck it, name 10. You see the problem here?
They spew this garbage out into our industry, and then I, the mechanic, gets stuck trying to untangle this web of shit they've straddled me with.
Fucking Rad Power, honestly one of the better ones, spewed all this excrement all over my industry, then went belly up and fucking boned all these poor people that bought these things. Now they are fucking recalling them!
I've got a customer in my shop now, who has a rear wheel on a Rad Power that is fucked. And we can't fix it, no way, and now the company is in chapter 11. Same with Vanmoof. More proprietary death trap garbage.
There are so many of them too: Vanmoof, Rad Power, EBC, Juiced and Propella, Fuell, Zugo, Dost, Sondors, Angell, Cowboy, iGO, UBCO, Stromer, and this isn't even mentioning all the D2C ebike death machines you can buy on Aliexpress, Amazon, and Temu.
Each and everyone is a problem for us to work on. They are 5 to 10 times the weight of a normal bike, they don't use normal bike standards (shit, many of them straight up come with moto parts on them), and then on top of this they are full of e-waste and questionably batteries. Shit, look up laws about ebike batteries in NYC, many of them are illegal to bring into your apartment because they have caused so many fires.
Sigh.... Look, they are not all bad. There are ebike brands I trust and I'm happy to work on, shit, I sell ebikes in my shop. But like, lets be real folks, the vast majority of these brands are a big fucking problem, for everyone.
RegularDegularWoman@reddit
How’s lectric? And aventon?
MariachiArchery@reddit
Let me put this in perspective for you...
I'm looking at some Letric folding bikes now selling for a $999 D2C. That is about $200 more than the cheapest kids bicycle I stock in my store, and about $1400 less than the cheaper adult bicycle I stock in my store.
Think about that for a second.
Aventon is less fucked, but still a nightmare for our shop. Proprietary crap everywhere, cheap throw-away bike parts that you'd never see spec'ed on a reputable bicycle, and, it's D2C.
Aventon doesn't support me as a shop, which makes it difficult for me to support you as a rider. And, this is outside of all the bad feelings these D2C brands create within our industry.
The D2C brands want to cut us out? What is the conclusion to that? You know? Can you service your own bicycle? Do you have any idea how many death traps I remedy on even a weekly or daily basis? If I go away, the bike shop, people die. And these D2C brands couldn't give less of a fuck.
You want an ebike? By a Specialized. You'll get a good bike, fantastic warranty support, and you'll also have the support of the largest dealer network in the country taking care of you. Sure, you'll pay a few hundred more than a Aventon, but you get what you pay for.
pdoherty972@reddit
How about Segway?
meta4our@reddit
Yes this was one of the many reasons I went straight to a glove haul ST. That and the test rides showed that the globe’s quality was an order of magnitude higher than the other bikes despite being “inferior” on a spec sheet.
KING_UDYR@reddit
This is why I went with TREK, at the end of the day it’s easier working with a company that won’t go under.
How are the specialized e-bikes?
LitigantTester@reddit
That is about $200 more than the cheapest kids bicycle I stock in my store, and about $400 less than the cheapest adult bicycle I stock in my store.
That is your problem. Bikes are soo overpriced, and you know. 600€ is enough to buy a bike from any reputable brand (bh, Orbea, conor, specialized, and many more). So make a electric bike is more than enough paying other 500€ for a motor and a battery.
But traditional/reputable are greedy. So they ask 2500€ for a cheap ebike with the lowest end parts for brakes and fork and train gear.
Manufacturers are greedy. And you sell overpriced bikes. If you don't want to service ebikes from unkown brands i agree, because they don't follow standars for many parts so is a pain to replace/find replacements.
Some brands do bad jobs and do bad practices on bateries/motor/electric parts, yes. They are dangerous. Yes.
But don't lie. Electric bikes and regular bikes are overpriced from stablished brands.
AntEaterApocalypse@reddit
Legitimately interesting industry insight. Cheers.
I have no idea where Bianchi falls in the grand scheme of things, but I have a Bianchi ebike with a Bosch system.
elsenorevil@reddit
Definitely quality!
MariachiArchery@reddit
Quality stuff right here. In the US, Bianchi doesn't have as big of a dealer network as some other brands, but it sounds like you have the support of at least one LBS.
Bosch systems are unmatched in quality, outside of maybe Shimano. Both are equally easy for us to service and we receive generous support from both brands and their distribution channels.
The real problem in the ebike sector is non-bicycle brands making bikes. Trek, Specialized, Bianchi, Scott, Pinarello, Giant... the actually bicycle brands, are all safe to buy an ebike from.
AideNo621@reddit
I'm sorry, but children bicycle for 800 bucks? Wtf?
xregnierx@reddit
I see this shit and it sooooo hard to figure out what's actually bonefide, nonbiased information, like an $800 children's bike is some kinda magical gotcha on whether or not a bike that's near $1000 is trash.
Walmart, Target, etc still has Huffy and Schwinn bikes for full grown adults that barely break $100 bucks lmao and they all have the same exact ten and one year warranties. Will it break in a year? Maybe. Then I can just... Go grab another bike lmao
jimmpony@reddit
Honestly, I'm amazed any of these bike shops that refuse to work on anything that costs less than four figures get any business at all. I've never stepped foot in one and never will, after what elitists they've proven to be whenever I've seen them post on reddit. I'll just keep working on my ebike on my own that I paid $650 for on sale 4 years ago. Still no battery fires, wheels flying off while I'm riding, or wheels catching on fire then flying off while I'm riding so far. I'm starting to think those scenarios are less likely than the ~~used car salesmen~~ bike shops want you to believe.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Thank you. I ride an Aventon myself with no complaints so far, but this level of feedback is greatly appreciated.
MariachiArchery@reddit
Yeah, Aventons aren't totally fucked. I hope you bought it from a dealer.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Ain't many dealers where I live, but I maintain my bike a lot better than my mom does hers. I do most maintenance and minor repairs myself. This is kind of a special case.
M_FootRunner@reddit
I like that you mentioned VanMoof. In my opinion, before making ebikes, that brand made the perfect city commuter bike, nice, light, indistructable, thoughts through.
Ebike was their downfall
Fresh-Platypus-7030@reddit
Name 10 bike brands? Easy. Walmart bike.
Debugga@reddit
Except, if they’re working on the bike portion, of the ebike, it shouldn’t matter. That’s just bike mechanic-ing.
Gold_Area5109@reddit
Unless you have a hub motor... working on a wheel with a hub motor isn't "bike mechanic-ing" anymore.
Neenknits@reddit
When I added my motor to my trike, I accepted the fact that I now must do all of my own maintenance, or get one of my kids to do it for me. Not a big deal, as I stripped the trike down and put it back together, clean and well adjusted, before adding the motor (12 yr old trike, unused for 9ish years, so kind of dirty), but I probably have no choice.
Debugga@reddit
They could easily ignore the controller, and never activate the bike in an electric capacity, and fully interact with the mechanical components alone. Hell, just remove the battery and tada, it’s all chains and tension cables again.
Gold_Area5109@reddit
If you ignore that removing a wheel with a hub motor involves dealing with wires and electronics.
Hell, there was a guy who posted like two weeks ago where a shop removed a wheel with a hub motor and somehow broke it while changing the tire.
FrogMasterOfficial@reddit
I was going to cite liability as the core issue here all too likely, and business insurance coverage.
If OP's bike fails or causes an accident and for some reason the heat makes it back to the mechanic, they may not be covered by their policy if the eBike in question skirted the local laws.
heywoodidaho@reddit
Yep, likely his insurance company put the fear of financial ruin into him and if you haven't noticed Insurance companies tend to make arbitrary rules up as they go along.
wdaloz@reddit
I thought 28 with assist and 20 throttle only were the 3 and 2 definitions?
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
They are. The problem is if this thing can go 28 and has a throttle it is illegal. It doesn’t matter if the throttle doesn’t work above 20 or if you can switch modes and disable the throttle. If the throttle exists on the bike and it goes faster than 20 it’s illegal.
stone_database@reddit
Illegal where, though? You’re applying some kind of blanket law.
If it can pedal assist to 28 it’s class 3.
If it can throttle to 20 it’s class 2.
It can be a class 2 and 3 as far as I can tell when I pursued local laws when I bought mine. That being US and Iowa law.
Stagaman@reddit
A class 3 cannot have a throttle in CA, it doesn’t matter if “the throttle only works at class 2 speeds”. There is no US legal classification to my knowledge, it’s one of the reasons the state laws vary so much,
.
SamosaPandit@reddit
And yet Aventon and Velotric - both based in California - sell bikes with this functionality.
Pretty-Yam-2854@reddit
It’s known as a class 2/3, and from what I’ve been told by actual law enforcement and bike mechanics in person it’s legal in CA.
Debugga@reddit
Yeah. In CA Class 2/3 was legal, and still should be. However recent law changed the class system and it seems a common interpretation of the law is “class 3 cannot have throttles at all” though I haven’t reviewed the exact text recently.
I still think a 2/3 should be a thing. Throttle or petal to 20, pedal only beyond that to 28, cutoff.
SamosaPandit@reddit
Maybe the solution is to make bike classes and whether or not the throttle is accessible more obvious to others.
Giving a bike enough power to pull big hills and have a long range while completely locking out its ability to fully utilize that power is hardware wastage. It’s also a safety issue when you find yourself in situations where you need to be able to go faster to follow traffic. A lot of places still have terrible bike infrastructure.
Pretty-Yam-2854@reddit
I honestly don’t know if it changed but I just had my brakes adjusted and new tires put on like two weeks ago and they didn’t say anything.
PrettyShinyBikes@reddit
Read the text of SB 1271. I truly don’t think you understand these laws you’re referring to.
Svechinskayaa@reddit
That's California one of the most strict States for ebike laws
Suit_Responsible@reddit
The biggest doubt I would cast on that is, do you think a company like Lectric would rock being on the wrong side of legislation by selling bikes that are just like this…
Pretty-Yam-2854@reddit
My next bike kinda want isn’t so much of an eMTB but a cruiser, Trek Electra Ponto Go. Yeah treks def gonna make an illegal e bike that goes 20 on throttle with a 26 mph pedal assist.
beach_bum_638484@reddit
The laws haven’t caught up yet and unfortunately, the proposals are all over the place. I think NJ just passed some very prohibitive law.
stone_database@reddit
Good to know. Doubt that’ll ever come up for me. You’re right there’s tons of variability among the states.
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
It literally cannot be class two and class three at the same time class three are not allowed to have a physical throttle present on the bicycle. Class twos are not allowed to have the ability to assist beyond 20 miles an hour. Being class two and class three makes it instantly not class two or class three.
Long_Pig_Tailor@reddit
Pretty-Yam-2854@reddit
So my eMTB is illegal? It has throttle to 20mph but if you continue pedaling it can go up to 28mph. I’ve literally been past cops and rangers on trails and bike paths with it just toggled to 17, 20 or 22 mph and they don’t care, I’ve gotten compliments from them too. It’s a class 2/3 according to what they’ve told me at REI who works on my bike and I have a membership with.
HistorianAlert9986@reddit
Yes technically not a proper class 3 unless you completely remove the throttle. However these rules are very rarely enforced even in places with stricked laws like NJ.
Dook23@reddit
Please show me the legislation you are referring to. I am not going to disagree with you but I have never seen any legislation that specifically says a class 3 ebike can't have a physical throttle on it, only that the bike cannot use the throttle to go 20-28.
Errror1@reddit
the laws are going to depend on the state or country. The three class system was developed by Peopleforbikes. You can find there documents here
https://www.peopleforbikes.org/electric-bikes/policies-and-laws
but the exact wording for class 3 is below and it's pretty clear it can't have a throttle
>3) A “class 3 electric bicycle” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance
only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle
reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour, and is equipped with a speedometer
Transfem-love@reddit
Feels like a scam. I wouldn’t agree to may him anything. Most repair people will look at stuff and not even charge if it’s minor, meanwhile he’s trying to charge you for verifying that he cannot work on something. That’s what people call a scam.
Transfem-love@reddit
This guy is scamming you. Tell him to return your bike or you’re reporting it stolen. He’s holding it ransom and refusing to do work.
BVLsolarEV@reddit
In the US, business have the right to refuse service for any reason. It seems like someone at this shop likes wasting time more than making money because that was a very wordy back and forth way of saying "I won't work on that bike."
Now to the Class 2/3 drama that most comments have focused on, I don't care. I don't care about the ebike class regulations, I care about common sense, practicality, and safe operation. A throttle is the safest option for quickly getting through high traffic intersections where a 1 ton steel cage could come barreling toward you at any moment. And when there is no shoulder or bike lane the safest way to share the road with that ton of steel is to travel as close as possible to the posted speed limit. So I don't care if these factors make my commuter a Class 2/3 hybrid or an "illegal" bike, a responsible outlaw is better than a law abiding safety hazard.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
No one should be blaming the mechanic. It's obvious he wants to avoid potential liability of working on an ebike that could be easily illegally configured.
Were an accident to occur, he could be roped into lawsuits for having touched it last. He was transparent and courteous. He has no obligation to risk his neck legally and financially for your convenience.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
It's not illegally configured though. If it were, most ebike companies would be getting sued to death over it because most of them ship class 2 bikes that have an option to increase the top speed to 28mph.
sckuzzle@reddit
Technically the law is about what the ebike is capable of. If you can "unlock" class 3 speed with something like an app or a switch, it's illegal - even if you haven't unlocked it yet.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
So my followup question is why are most ebike companies allowed to sell illegal ebikes with seemingly no legal consequences?
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
They’re not allowed to. They just do, it’s not illegal to sell it. It’s just illegal to use it outside of private property.
It’s also worth noting that the majority of these companies are Chinese companies that can easily change their name and essentially ceased to exist whenever they want/need to
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
You're right, but I've bought class 2 ebikes with unlockable 28mph speed from several American companies. For example, this is bike is a Ride1Up and they are based in Cali.
GingerSnapBiscuit@reddit
As long as there is a slip of paper somewhere that says "Please note : do not unlock the speed except on private property" the company letting you do this is fully covered.
Fun-Machine7907@reddit
Harley davidson, which is a rather famously American company, used to sell the things required to tune their bikes for better performance ignoring emissions laws. It wasn't clearly illegal to sell things to a customer that enabled them to break the law. That changed, they got fined, and now they do not sell tuners that can be easily used to break the law.
If E-bikes become enough of a problem, the loopholes will get shut down through legislation or the courts will decide there isn't actually a loophole.
sculltt@reddit
I don't know what everybody is on in here right now, but class 3 ebikes are legal just about everywhere in the US right now.
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
Correct. But if it can go faster than 20 and a throttle exists on the bicycle, it is not a class three it is illegal.
SamosaPandit@reddit
No it isn't lol. There are way too many big brands selling bikes with throttles and unlockable class III. Trek for one.
Wants-NotNeeds@reddit
Yup
S4ntos19@reddit
Because most of the e-bike brands who sell bikes that can by pass the legal limits do not have legal entities in the United States.
SamosaPandit@reddit
Aventon and Velotric both have bikes that can be unlocked in their apps and they're both based in the US.
thewimsey@reddit
Where are Class III e-bikes illegal?
You can't ride them on MUPs in my state, but they are legal on roads.
sckuzzle@reddit
"Allowed" is a strong word. It's like asking why cars are "allowed" to speed. They technically aren't, there just isn't enforcement. In case you haven't noticed, US regulatory bodies are not exactly regulating and enforcing laws these days.
Hashtag_Labotomy@reddit
Yeah I think the speed thing for an ebike, not an emoto is a little odd. I see very expensive emtb's that can go fast, road hard, put up wet and ya gotta know some electrical to work on em. If it was parts availability, not working on these imported Amazon ebikes, insurance etc etc I would understand. Though no matter what, if your gonna be a mechanic, and I've been wrenching on cars, trucks, semi's, boats, ATVs, for 25 years and it's only a matter of time before every area of working on something electrical is gonna require some electrical knowledge. It's just the world we live in.
Active_Ad_5322@reddit
It’s still abides by Class 3 rules, and the mobile mechanic stay the s that he works on 1, 2, and 3.
The bike does not hit above 20 mph with the throttle, only via pedal assist, as the throttle is not active (still on the bike? yes, actively propelling the vehicle? no)
The mechanic is being obtuse when telling OP that the bike is something more that Class 3
It is fully within
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
Doesn’t matter. The mechanic can choose what they want to or not want to work on.
Also, if it can go 28 miles an hour with pedal assist, but it has a throttle it is illegal
Active_Ad_5322@reddit
The argument is not about the mechanic have the option to decline, but the confusion as to why he declined.
The bike has the built is capability to be a Class 1, Class 2, or Class 3. The mechanic stated that he works in all 3, but erroneously believe that the throttle stays active when Class 3 is chosen.
The throttle is NOT hardwired to the controller, it is removable. Even is OP did not remove the throttle, the throttle is NOT controlling anything. It’s “dead weight “
The bike mechanic needs to better understand his limitations. In no way is any configuration of OPs bike not one of the 3 options
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
Any bike that can be switched between classes is instantly disqualified from all of the classes. A class three is not allowed to have a physical throttle present. A class one or two is not allowed to provide any assistance beyond 20 miles an hour. If the bike is capable of going faster than 20, it cannot be class one or two if it has a physical throttle present on the handlebar it cannot be class three.
JazzHandsFan@reddit
The federal e-bike laws have never been interpreted this way by a court. Unless that happens, the lawyers of all these e-bike companies have decided it's not worth worrying about, and I won't be worrying about it either.
Active_Ad_5322@reddit
Clueless.
Absolutely clueless.
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
Well, at least you admit it
Seriously, I am literally a law-enforcement officer. I am literally in charge of my agencies, bicycle patrol, and bicycle enforcement division and have literally been working on E bike Enforcement initiatives for the past nine months.
If it has a throttle, it cannot be class one or class three doesn’t matter if the throttle is hooked up or not if it is on the bike, it is not class one or class three
If it has the capability of going faster than 20 miles an hour, whether that is turned on or not, it cannot be class one or two.
All of these E bikes that can switch classes are de facto illegal because they do not fit in any of the classes
Active_Ad_5322@reddit
Law enforcement? So I was right about you having your head up your ass.
sckuzzle@reddit
The law does not say "throttle is allowed up to 20 mph, and pedal-assist up to 28 mph". If the bike has throttle (at ANY speed), it cannot be class 3. And if the bike has a motor that can turn on above 20mph, it cannot be class 2. There isn't some fancy loophole that allows the bike to change classes dynamically.
Active_Ad_5322@reddit
The bike no longer has throttle capabilities when switched to class 3.
It is stated by OP conversation in the screen shots.
sckuzzle@reddit
The bike has a throttle, which is what matters, and both cops and courts are going to laugh at you if you try to claim this. Here's the relevant law for California:
Notice that it specifically says "is not capable of exclusively propelling the bicycle". Is there a mode that allows the motor to exclusively propel the bicycle? Yes? Great, automatically not class 3. It says nothing about "does not exclusively power the bicycle above 20 mph".
Active_Ad_5322@reddit
Dude, seriously, you got your head up your ass about the original existence of the throttle.
When a cop pulls you over, the current configuration is what’s observed.
Being able to switch does not mean OP will get a ticket.
The bike does not have the capability to go above 20 with a throttle. Ther is zero “unclassified “ option in this scenario
Hell, Op can remove the throttle and set it to 20 and be class 1.
End of story.
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
You are the one with your head up your ass. Bikes that can switch classes cannot conform to either class. The literal ability to be switched between classes, disqualifies them from either class.
Wants-NotNeeds@reddit
Nah. You may not like it, but class switch-ability is a thing. It allows bike distributors to sell the same product in various jurisdictions. A the switch of a button, owners can become compliant. The user software provides the rider m control over classification.
Now, overriding Class 2 and throttling >20mph is where the problems begin. Some models will allow throttle to 28mph, but the hot-dogging kids want the ones that go faster.
Wants-NotNeeds@reddit
Yup
sculltt@reddit
Class 3 ebikes are legal in most places, though.
sckuzzle@reddit
This discussion isn't about whether class 3 ebikes are legal. It's about whether the ebike is even a class 3 at all, or whether it's actually just illegal.
stormdelta@reddit
Technically that depends on state. Configurability isn't as consistent across states as the base 3-class definitions are.
thewimsey@reddit
It really depends on the exact language of the state law.
The specific langauge of my state's law is that a Class 2 e-bike:
A class 2 bike that can be configured to go 28 mph but is not configured that way way will "cease to provide" assistance when the bike reaches 20 mph.
SadisticPawz@reddit
Such nonsense. Do we need hotswap controllers then?
sckuzzle@reddit
I expect that separate controllers would allow the classification to change, but it's certainly not settled law. I don't believe where exactly the line is has ever been decided in courts.
i__hate__you__people@reddit
Yeah. The companies ship legal bikes, then allow a backdoor so you can increase the top speed IF AND ONLY IF you are only riding on private property. They all have that in the fine print. It basically says “this is shipped as legal, but we allow you to make it illegal so long as you’re only on your own land, since there’s no laws regulating that”.
Anyone who modifies it and then rides on public roads anyway (99% of the purchasers) is breaking the warranty and cannot sue the bike company since the fine print said they weren’t allowed to do that. If you modify it and then ride it in a public space, then yes, it is illegally configured.
I’d say 60%+ of ebike users are riding illegally configured bikes. That’s on them. It’s like driving without insurance. Yes, technically you CAN, and too many people do, but that doesn’t make it legal.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
"COULD be easily illegally configured"
A class 3 ebike with throttle is not permitted in California. Perhaps not in other places as well.
The person who is "the problem" here is you for not respecting the mechanics right to decline working on your bike to protect himself. Did you want honest replies or just sympathy?
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
How did I not respect his right to decline the job? I asked for opinions on this interaction and I got them. Thanks for participating.
sckuzzle@reddit
You argued with him about whether the ebike was legal or not. You weren't rude about it or anything, but if a store says they don't work on something and you try to convince them it's fine and they should work on it anyway is mildly disrespectful.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
I think it's fair to voice disagreement as long as you aren't being rude about it. I wouldn't call that disrespectful.
random_wonderings@reddit
Mechanic said 'No'.
You called mechanic a 'problem' because of it.
Are women who say no to you also a problem?
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Haha there's always at least one wierdo. Sure, i used a provocative title. You took that and went on your own little tangent with it.
random_wonderings@reddit
So your answer is yes.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Seek therapy please, your delusions are not healthy
Active_Ad_5322@reddit
Btw, your bike is a valid class 3 as the throttle is inactive when “unlocked” .
It’s silly to call it “unlocked” as it is part of the simple menu option .
Your bike is fine, the mechanic said they broke on class 3, but won’t work on your class 3
gravelpi@reddit
Well, referring to someone as a "problem" is an adversarial way to start off a question.
jomistok@reddit
A class 3 e-bike with throttle is not permitted in California outside of private property.
But it is correct the mechanic can make his own calls for himself.
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
Definitely not in Florida. Doesn’t matter if the throttle works above 20 or not if the bike can go above 20 and has a throttle it is illegal.
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
The vast majority of “e-bikes” sold are illegal and actually mopeds/motorcycles. It’s only a very small minority that are actually legal, and none of the companies are getting sued because all of the companies are based in China.
100BottlesOfMilk@reddit
I side with him mostly since it's his shop he can do what he wants, but i do think it would be stupid for the mechanic to be held liable in such a case. It would be like suing a mechanic for working on a racecar and then the owner gets drunk and drives it out on the street. It's not illegal to own an ebike that's outside of the class system. What's illegal is using them on public roads/trails, and that's out of the hands of the bike shop owner
thewimsey@reddit
He can get roped into any lawsuit involving the bike.
Itsdefnotinmybutt@reddit
Businesses have liabilities and policies. He is informing you of what he is capable/willing to do. Your bike is out of class, doesn’t matter if others are doing it. The laws are developing around an evolving landscape. It will settle over time but regulations will be mixed until there is national alignment on a class system. Business can choose where they draw a line and you know where this one is. Look elsewhere and don’t condemn a principled business owner
KaboodleMoon@reddit
We REALLY need a standardized class system from the FTC at this point. Some places are banning "anything with a throttle" others are banning "anything that goes over 18mph" others are basing it on motor rating or other speed limits. At this point I don't particularly care what it ends up as, just as long as it's standardized so I don't get rugpulled later.
Johns-schlong@reddit
In all honesty we'll probably settle along the EU regulations. 18mph top speed, maybe pushed to 20 for the US, 250w nominal with 750w on cargo bikes. They're totally reasonable standards for bikes.
Cargobiker530@reddit
The EU regulations are designed to nerf ebikes to save the auto industry. They're ridiculous anywhere with even modest hills.
pinkfloydhomer@reddit
You obviously know nothing about the subject. Even a weak Bosch Active Line with 50 Nm mid drive will get you up any hill if you shift your gears down. Plenty of hills in EU.
Cargobiker530@reddit
About a third of the people who use bikes for transportation can't master gear shifting. It gets worse with ebikes. Look at the cluster of your average ebike locked downtown and you'll see one shiny gear and seven rusty ones.
pinkfloydhomer@reddit
Lol... Get a moped then. It's not hard to press a button with your thumb and switch gears. Also, plenty of EU ebikes have internal gear hubs or even automatic stepless gears like enviolo.
As I said, you know nothing about the topic. You don't even know how bikes work. You assume the worst of the worst when it comes to ebikes: hub motor instead of mid drive, not using basic gear shifting which makes the ebike much more efficient, derailleur gears and you probably also assume fat tires and 20" wheels and a bike that weighs more than 100 lbs. You should trying riding a real ebike.
If you don't use the pedals for anything important, why does it have to be an ebike? You can get an electric moped instead.
You obviously have no idea about the eu ebike market or topography.
Cargobiker530@reddit
Gatekeeping much? There are a lot of people out there that use ebikes for transportation because they can't afford the expense of automobiles or because traffic congestion has made car travel pointless. Most of them aren't spandex wearing dentists pretending they're in the Tour De France.
Everything you talk about, enviolo hubs, internal gear hubs, proprietary mid-drives, double or triple the costs of a basic ebike without adding any value to the rider that couldn't be provided by using a 750 watt geared hub motor that costs $150. The mid drives in particular are stupid since the various manufacturers all use different mounting plates. If they break they won't be replaceable.
It's pretty obvious that there are spandex clad people really, really, upset that their pricey, exclusive, TDF style road bikes are getting passed by seniors on ebikes going to the shops.
pinkfloydhomer@reddit
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. The EU ebike market is not about spandex wearing dentists. Just all sorts of regular people doing their daily commute on an ebike in hilly areas etc. You are the one pretending or more likely not knowing about how ebikes work or are used in the EU.
Cargobiker530@reddit
No, I don't know how ebikes are used in the EU. I do know that EU regulations appear to be designed to make ebikes more expensive & complicated than they have to be to no benefit to the actual consumer.
I know this because I can see what ebikes are available in China and the U.S. & how the fucked up regulations you're so proud of basically choke ebike sales & use. In particular the shitty Bosch systems that use DRM chipping to brick consumers bikes if they try to work on them themselves.
The 250 watt, mid-drive, internal gear hub, $7k monstrosities that are touted by EU proponents I regard as overpriced junk destined for scrapyards. A 90's steel frame mountain bike with a BBHSD is a better bike, more serviceable, & more reliable.
Johns-schlong@reddit
?? 250w sustained is what a fairly fit person riding at a pretty quick pace outputs, and that's nominal, not peak wattage. Put in another 100 watts of your own effort, which isn't a whole lot, and you're at professional cyclist levels of combined power. It turns your average person into the equivalent of a tour de france rider without trying too hard.
Cargobiker530@reddit
Maybe on a road bike but ebikes aren't road bikes that weigh 22 lbs with 28 mm tire widths. They weigh 65 pounds and have 2.5 inch tires-3 inch tires.
Johns-schlong@reddit
No? My ebike has 40mm 700c tires and weighs 40 lbs. Ebikes come in lots of styles and sizes, fatbikes are not necessarily the norm.
Besides which: 1) weight is less important than aerodynamic drag except uphill. Even then, gearing and having the equivalent of a fit rider helping you is more than enough.
2) the EU (and proposed California regulations) have exceptions with higher wattage limits for cargo bikes.
Cargobiker530@reddit
Fatbikes are absolutely the norm in the U.S. & most of Asia. EU standards are designed to force people back into cars. Weight is also important because higher weight ebikes limit acceleration at stop lights forcing ebike riders to spend more time in the Right-Hook-Death-Zone.
That's also why throttles are important: getting the fuck out of the intersection saves lives.
stormdelta@reddit
The EU rules would do little except destroy the ebike market in the US.
It would make almost literally every current ebike in the US illegal, alienating most current owners. Especially if you restrict it beyond even class 1.
EU and US have extremely different infrastructure/density/road design/etc contexts. For starters, the EU rules assume people can realistically use cycling infrastructure to get around, that is not true of most of the US
It would make ebikes significantly less practical as transportation in the US, pushing more people back into cars, especially the people who should least be driving
thewimsey@reddit
There is no way that we will settle for the EU regulations.
If there is a national standard, it will be along the lines of what we already have, possible with small tweaks to the throttle language.
But I really see no need for a national standard; the problem is enforcement, not the definitions.
jimglidewell@reddit
We have a standard three class system in most US states, but the issue is that many vendors skirted the rules. Per the model legislation, the only class that can have a throttle at all is Class 2. Class 3 can go faster but cannot have a throttle. California has recent explicitly closed down various "interpretations" that allowed both 28mph and a throttle on the same e-bike. That was never the intent.
wturber@reddit
Now we don't. The three-class system is fairly standardized. States and municipalities need the flexibility to have the laws meet what they feel is appropriate for their particular situations. People who live in those localities can simply find out about the laws.
I think the bigger problem is how people throw around the word "throttle" as regards the three-class system and don't even realize that the laws that create the three-class system never or almost never mention the word "throttle".
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Not condemning him, just curious how this bike can be considered "out of class" when most class 2 ebikes ship with this option. Also my mom never even unlocked the higher top speed because she doesnt need it.
BoringBob84@reddit
His insurance probably has exclusions for electric cyles that are not legal ebikes. In most states, the law specifies that an ebike can only be a member of one class. If the customer can reasonably easily change its class with a setting, then that seems likely to be a class-non-compliant machine - even if the customer doesn't actually change that setting.
It may be a legal grey area, but I can see how a small business owner wouldn't want to risk something going wrong, him getting sued, his insurance not covering it, and his business going bankrupt. Also, this policy is probably good public relations for his business, given the negative attitudes of bicyclists and the general public about fast / powerful electric cycles with ornamental pedals.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Makes sense. I'm patiently awaiting nationwide standardization of ebike classes because these kinds of situations are so unnecessary.
Itsdefnotinmybutt@reddit
It could be in class in one state and out of class in another. Brands don’t make state specific offerings. Manufacturers are deferring to consumers to know their local laws and set their bikes up according to them. It could also be viewed as a workaround to those laws. Many of these laws are being adopted because brands are importing within loopholes and creating easily modifiable product that makes them illegal.
Trick_Minute2259@reddit
Just take the throttle off. No throttle, no problems with class 3 speed capability.
Fit_Climate8061@reddit
A class 2 can have a throttle but the max speed is 20 mph. I've read about some bikes that supposedly has a setting to make the speed either class 2 or 3. IMO, that is a class 3 bike since it's overall max speed is 28 mph.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Somehow I don't think that would make a difference
BoringBob84@reddit
The law is very clear in most states.
Class 2 is limited to 20 MPH.
Class 3 cannot have a throttle.
A bike cannot be in more than one class.
wturber@reddit
Show me one state where the law says "no throttle". In fact show me any stae where the actual statute even mentions "throttle". Usually what they say is" pedal assist only". Having a throttle does not disqualify it from being a Class 3. Having a throttle that operates when you aren't pedaling does.
thewimsey@reddit
California doesn't use the term "throttle", but it's clear in this defintion of a Class III bike that a throttle is not allowed:
wturber@reddit
No such thing is clear. What is clear is that the motor is not allowed to be powered unless you are pedaling. So a throttle that only applies power when pedaling would be perfectly fine. This does make it clear that a throttle that would function when not pedaling is not allowed - because any feature that caused power to be applied when not pedaling is not allowed.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
To clarify, I think he would still decline to work on the bike even if I removed the throttle because it has the capability to be either class 2 or 3.
IM_OK_AMA@reddit
At this point why would you even want them to work on it? Dude made his choice
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Agreed. Mid conversation i knew it was never going to happen. I was ready to stop replying before he made the final comment about ebikes and mopeds.
BoringBob84@reddit
That is still a legal grey area because the nameplate on the bike must identify the class by law and even if it doesn't, the court can look up the model number and see that it is a non-compliant bike in that state. Could you argue that you made a reasonable effort to make it a legal Class 3 ebike by physically removing the throttle? Maybe.
AMC879@reddit
I've never seen a bike with a nameplate. Mine doesn't have one. My bike has no information on it saying what class it is or any specs.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Ah see that makes sense. I didnt know about the nameplate requirement. Thanks for providing this info.
BoringBob84@reddit
This depends on the state. I am not sure if all states require nameplates. And some states (like MN) allow dual-class ebikes. I think it would be worthwhile for to verify your state laws and if it is a class-compliant ebike, then you can point that out to the mechanic and he may change his mind.
Active_Ad_5322@reddit
The mechanic is confusing himself. If you never said anything about it having the capability of switching from 2 to 3, he would have never known the difference.
Having a bike being able to go 2 to 3 is nothing new and is a feature. It allows a rider to abide by local e-bike rules without the manufacturer having the need of extraneous models
Just find a different mechanic that isn’t so finicky. Plenty of them out there.
Maybe not mobile, but plenty of whop don’t confuse “unlocking “ features as an illegal override.
bradland@reddit
Why would he still decline to work on it? If you remove the throttle, it becomes a class 3 only e-bike, not a hybrid 2/3.
He clearly has a problem with e-bikes that throttle up to 28 mph. If you remove the throttle, problem solved.
If he comes out, refuses to work, and tries to charge you a fee, refuse to pay, because the bike is strictly a class 3 at that point.
Or just find someone else. I wouldn't say this guy is crazy, and I wouldn't say you're crazy. He's just a business owner taking a stand on principles that are important to him.
BoringBob84@reddit
I hope that the business owner is smart enough to charge a minimum fee in advance of showing up.
bradland@reddit
If OP pays with a CC, they could chargeback the fee, provided they have documentation. The mechanic already said he only works on class 1, 2, or 3 e-bikes. If OP removes the throttle and can provide documentation to that fact, the mechanic can't simply refuse to render services and keep the money. OP's CC bank will revert the fee and the mechanic will pay a chargeback fee.
BoringBob84@reddit
Again, this all depends on state law. Even with the throttle removed, the state could be strict and consider it a class non-compliant bike because the manufacturer's specifications say it is that way and because the nameplate lists it that way.
The business owner has an opportunity to challenge a charge-back when they believe it is improper.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Good take, but he didnt ask if we had unlocked the top speed from 20mph (how it ships), so it seems like he's more concerned with what the bike is capable of rather than it's current configuration.
I'll try to find another mechanic to work on it, but where I live options are rather limited. May just end up replacing the bike with something newer. It's a few years old budget model that hasn't really been well maintained anyway.
bradland@reddit
Possible. I'd hate to see a good e-bike go to the graveyard for something as simple as a derailleur issue though.
Maybe flip it around on the guy. Tell him that you did some looking into the issues he's taking a stand on, and you better understand his perspective. Tell him you didn't realize the impact of these grey-market e-bikes.
Then tell him you're interested in making this bike compliant. Tell him you understand he still may not want to work on it, but you're looking for his advice on how to make the bike more consistent with the law.
I bet you a free donut & coffee that he turns on a dime and wants to work on the bike.
thereia@reddit
with no throttle it can NOT be class 2. Class 2 HAS a throttle. I'm not sure you understand the point everyone is making. A "class 2" with no throttle is then a Class 1, not a Class 2.
I agree he's making a very fine distinction, but I also understand why someone might be worried about lawsuits, fines, etc.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
You're misunderstanding my point. I understand that removing the throttle makes it a class 3. My point is that I don't know that it would affect his decision to work on the bike, as he seems to be very focused on what the bike is capable of rather than it's current state/class/configuration. And ultimately he can choose to not work on it for any reason he wants.
stone_database@reddit
Kansas law doesn’t say anything about a bike must fit in only one class.
My Aventon is both class 2 (throttle to 20) and Class 3 (pedal assist to 28).
The state just wants 20 mph or less so my bike doesn’t meet requirements for state parks, but does for road and trail use. Some cities have further restrictions.
Point all being - it varies by jurisdiction, and 2 and 3 are generally mutually exclusive to each other following logic, there’s no reason both 2 and 3 aren’t acceptable for a single bike unless it specifically says they are separate.
thewimsey@reddit
Yeah, that's the ambiguity in my state's law as well.
thewimsey@reddit
This is the part that is not clear in most states. Which is why you have added it.
Fit_Climate8061@reddit
I have a class 2 that is about 4 yrs old. Haven't ridden it much but I'm wanting one that has a water resistant battery case while my current bike has the battery under the seat. I'm having problems finding a true class 2 bike because they are a mix of class 2/3. I don't want a mix but a true class 2 only due to so many areas getting more strict and I don't want to risk any problems or fines if I'm ever stopped and questioned about the class of my bike. So I feel that not only irresponsible parents have caused the crack down on ebikes but that manufacturers are now trying to skirt around the true classes telling people they are okay to ride in certain areas when they're probably not because they've set the bike class features to be borderline. I'm not interested in higher speed. I just want more assisted battery mileage for longer day trips.
Scharfschutzen@reddit
You don't want that mechanic working on your bike.
Dook23@reddit
Seems like a lot of discussion going about about classes and such when this guy only needs a derailleur fixed for petes sake. He doesn't need to touch the motor, electronics, or anything.
Michael-Brady-99@reddit
Yeah that’s a good point. Even cheap e-bikes have name brand derailleurs amd shifters. A mechanic should be an.e to work,on the basics of any bike.
All this talk about liability - does doing a tune-up on a bike make you responsible for all the other components going forward? If you adjust brakes and later the bike catches fire somehow that’s your fault??
Fun-Machine7907@reddit
Yes, because that person whose bike caught fire is receiving phone calls, snail mail, and email from ambulance chasers looking for a paycheck. I'm not sure what level of insurance bycicle shops carry, but it's probably not as much as a motorcycle shop where we expect at least a couple customers to die each year and have a potential huge lawsuit to defend.
Same reason why a lawyer would tell you not to let the neighbors kids play on your lawn, make sure roofers have insurance that is primary for injuries, and other fun things like that. Getting sued is stressful, getting sued for something you didn't do is still expensive, and getting sued for something you should have noticed/done as a professional is very expensive if the injured party has just crashed at 30mph in just a bycicle helmet.
Top-Environment-2916@reddit
Where im at, it can, yes.
We could theoretically deal with legal issues if we disconnected a wheel to true it or replace pads and it later catches on fire. It could be argued that the work was done incorrectly resulting in the fire.
Not that I honestly think we would end up being held responsible, but just the possibility of that coming back to us is enough to turn away a lot of bikes.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
It shouldn't be this difficult
Extreme_Banana_912@reddit
This is a perfect example of why it’s better to go with an established ‘real’ brand of bike instead of one of the newer Direct To Consumer brands. If it were a trek/electra/specialized you could get it worked on at any of their shops. Even if it were a more obscure brand you could get it worked at in the shop you buy from.
I had the same issue with my RAD back in like 2018 before they had a maintenance partner network. It sucks but if you shop around you’ll probably find a shop that’ll work on your bike.
JazzHandsFan@reddit
But Trek and Electra e-bikes operate with the same class 2/3 option, brand doesn't matter here. This is just what manufacturers have decided they will make, and what agencies have decided to allow.
Michael-Brady-99@reddit
I mean the “real” brand e-bikes are $3-4k and up. Isn’t it kind of crazy that bikes with motors are so expensive in this day and age. There’s no magic here, lithium batteries have come way down in price the last few years for example.
Agitated_Crew_7305@reddit
Should have responded “if you don’t know how to do basic bike repairs just say so”
Wales147@reddit
If it has a throttle it's illegal in the UK. Stupid grey area that's for sure when the bike is travelling so slow
OminousEarth@reddit
Il be honest bud and say I think it’s you in my eyes, has hasn’t said he doesn’t know how to work on those but that he doesn’t want to, now it could be insurance based as if it’s ever crashed doing moped speeds he is liable and if his business insurance doesn’t cover what this is classed as at the point of the crash it could ruin him? But either way he just doesn’t want to and that’s his choice at then end of the day bud.
Michael-Brady-99@reddit
What exactly is the business liable for if someone crashes at moped speeds? Are these factual based arguments? I don’t get how this is a real liability - it’s a mechanic doing a tune-up. They aren’t modding or upgrading the bike for speeding. Why would anyone point the finger at them for what a person or manufacturer as done?
Johnixftw_@reddit
I’m with you op, but technically neither of you are wrong, they’re allowed to turn down doing service for any reason, but the reason they gave you to me is ridiculous, given the design of ur bike.
Fluid-Ability9596@reddit
You pay someone to come to your house and adjust your derailer? Wow! What else do you pay for??
Mur-man2765@reddit
I can relate. Every LBS in this city seems to think that my D2C Engwe E-bike is suddenly going to spontaneously combust in their shop so standard maintenance on the chain, (Shimano) derailleur, brakes, handlebars is now a big no-no. My bike does weigh about 120 pounds with both batteries installed so that is definitely a valid concern on their part. Otherwise, it seems like they are depriving themselves of a whole bunch of business by shutting us out…
chucklestexas@reddit
Sounds weird, since he;s not going to be doing anything to the motor.
1Sk1Bum@reddit
If that's his response, he isn't the person you want touching your bike. Clearly you know more than he does, move on.
9fingerjeff@reddit
Just wait till the authorities find out I can go well above 28 on my non motorized bike.
Snoo_4108@reddit
Excuse me but I Think that might be illegal.
iH8MotherTeresa@reddit
Dude, be careful ok that emoto you got there. 🤣🤣🤣
Pretty-Yam-2854@reddit
Least electric bike looking ebike too 😭
wturber@reddit
Neither. But he is wrong about Class 3 and a throttle in most jurisdictions, a Class 3 can have a throttle. It simply cannot operate throttle only. That may seem like a fine distinction, but it isn't. Very few examples of the Class 1, 2, 3 system ever even mention a throttle. What they mention is "pedal assist only". The throttles on my Class 3 bikes are only functional when you are pedaling. Therefore, it's legit Class 3.
That said, your bike sounds like a hybrid and is therefore neither class, because it can be throttle only to 20 miles an hour, that would make it a class 2. But then you can pedal assist to 28, that makes it a class 3, but a class 3 cannot have throttle only, so it's not a class 3. And a class 2 must stop assisting after 20 miles an hour. See the problem?
You eliminate the "throttle only" to 20 miles an hour, or eliminate the top assist speed to 28 miles an hour, and it will be either a legit class 2 or a legit class 3 respectively. All of this assumes that your state laws mimic the fairly standardized class 1, 2, 3 system from People For Bikes.
Pretty-Yam-2854@reddit
This is the answer for the dolts in the first two threads.
Pretty-Yam-2854@reddit
100% not a moped that guys a clown. If he tried to charge me shit for not doing work I bank with Bank of America and would charge that shit back to my card.
I’ve done it before with my old car and my current jeep. Some fuck wanted like $500 “ service fee “ to put my tow hitch on my jeep on top of 1500 and when I told him I found someone else and picked my jeep up he tried to charge it despite doing no work and my car just sitting on the street for 6 hours and I just called BofA and they gave me my money back.
Baybricker@reddit
This is pretty lame attitude on the part of the repair guy. I totally get frustration over blatant e-motos half-assedly disguised as e-bikes — but that’s clearly not what your bike is.
As far as I know, the only state where this type of class 2/3 bike is actually illegal is California. Trek for instance sells the FX+1s in all states but CA; that bike goes 20mph on the throttle and 28 with pedal assist. I’m assuming Trek’s lawyers have done their homework.
Further, even if the bike is technically out of classification, you’d think someone in a customer service job like this would want to lead with hospitality and just fix the thing rather than being difficult. For those decrying liability: I’d be interested to hear exactly what kind of exposure you think working on this bike would incur.
BoringBob84@reddit
That is not true. Most states have adopted the standard "People for Bikes" model legislation that clearly states that a bike can only be a member of one class.
California law goes even farther to say:
Dook23@reddit
I have read the People for Bikes statement on the classes of ebikes and I have never seen any wording that specifies an ebike has to be only a member of one class. Now if you are reading into that because of how they word each specific class I can understand that.
thewimsey@reddit
Then surely you can point to this language?
Because it's not part of my state's law, and it doesn't appear to be part of the California law either.
Baybricker@reddit
Specifically what states, besides California, explicitly prohibit this class 2/3 configuration? OP is in Vermont — I just checked the ebike rules for this state (per People for Bikes) and see nothing about this. I checked a couple other states, same thing.
I find it hard to believe all these reputable manufacturers are selling out-of-classification models in “most” states as you suggest.
AlarmingDiamond9316@reddit
Class 2 ebikes can go 28mph on throttle alone max.
Class 3 is 35 on throttle
Illegal is 40+ And is then Classed as an Emoto from what I have read.
But this 3 class system is different for every state. The ones above are the ones for my state.
stormdelta@reddit
That is incorrect for any state I'm aware of.
Class 2 is 20mph w/throttle. Class 3 is 28mph without throttle. Whether a bike is allowed to be modified between the two depends on state, though realistically nobody really cares if you're not being an idiot, it's more of an issue for something like this where a shop might be more antsy about it.
Speeds over 28mph are illegal for all classes, and IMO that's a pretty reasonable cutoff as braking distance / power / momentum all increase very rapidly as you go much faster than that.
Dook23@reddit
He is incorrect for sure if he's referring to the 3 class system. As you probably know though there are like 14 states that don't use the 3 class system. I do know there are a couple states, like Massachusetts, that consider a vehicle an ebike if it can go up to 30 mph. For MA, I believe they even consider them ebikes if they don't even have pedals but I might be mistaken.
thisFishSmellsAboutD@reddit
Technically he's keeping your mum safe from doing wheelies through your neighbourhood or whatever it is mums do on their wildly or mildly illegal ebikes.
Krostovitch@reddit
E bike tech here,
You're correct, this guy just wants to work on bosch mid drives. I get it, they are bread and butter jobs. But he is full of crap, you're bike is still a class 2 bike if you have it set as such. If you can unlock it, fine, it's still just a normal class 3 then.
Look for a better mechanic, this guy just wants easy jobs...
kqvrp@reddit
Mechanic is being a gatekeeping baby. Or he's so scared of his insurance he can't sleep at night. Still, it's his shop and his right to take or refuse work. Find yourself some random skilled guy on Discord or whatever.
Electrical-Hope8153@reddit
The mechanic can work on what he wants- if you don’t like that go someplace else
Yo_Rio@reddit
Problem is screen capture culture maybe. He’d like to fix mom’s stuff and make some cash, but like the conversation, it’s not over when it’s over and questioning what he said or did may come back no matter how correctly he did things. Shit is tough now days.
ResidentCoder2@reddit
Fair enough if he doesn't want to work on it. But charging you money still? It doesn't sound like he told you this upfront either. I'll accept your bike, refuse to do anything with it, and take your money. That part I don't vibe with; I would make it clear in reviews, and avoid the shop in the future.
People should be free to work or not work on what they want. Ambushing you with fees, however, is scummy.
The_Rociante@reddit
That's an ebike lol
rshetts1@reddit
The mechanic has every right to target his business as he sees fit. And he is correct about the issue with bikes with throttles that are convertible to class 3. Of course his problem is that the good ebikes that people are buying now pretty much all ship as class 2 and are able to be advanced to class 3. It is of course suggested that you remove the throttle if you do. Why is that a problem for him? Because soon he won't have much of a business if he refuses to work on e-bikes that have become pretty much the industry standard.
Legitimate-Lab9077@reddit
At the end of the day you are in the wrong because it’s his shop and he can decide not to work on E bikes at all this is being done because idiots are being idiots on idiotic bikes
IndependentTrust4594@reddit
Neither are crazy nor TAH.
I think you should be glad it didn’t work out. Better to waste your small amount of time over text with him being honest—sounds like he doesn’t have any experience with that particular brand at all minimum.
And he’s just working with a better safe than sorry attitude.
gorpmonger@reddit
The insurance company doing a solid for the fossil fuel industry.
Ok-Type-8917@reddit
I'm in Michigan and class 3 can't have a throttle. I doubt it's ever enforced and I think my states have a similar rating system.
mayorlittlefinger@reddit
My class 2 Radmission has a throttle? It's very underpowered and caps at 20mph
LowRes@reddit
Weird, my radmission is seems perfectly powered for the type of ebike it is.
Ok-Type-8917@reddit
Legal here.
weejiaquan@reddit
Just do the work yourself it's not that hard
cloud_x@reddit
Typical bicycle mechanic wannabe EBike tech behavior. Don't let that guy touch an Ebike.. You either do it or you don't. Guy must have plenty of work to treat a customer like that.
Realistic-Tailor-801@reddit
From looking at the pictures of the bike the derailleur has nothing to do with the motor it's the same as any other multi gear bike that's not electric so he should be able to work on it because he's not having to do anything with the motor. If he won't just take it to any bike shop and they should be able to work on it or just watch YouTube videos and do it yourself it's easy to fix.
Pristine_Hunter_1065@reddit
In some localities e-bikes can go 28mph on throttle
Pete90210@reddit
all about insurance my guy.
TruckChemical@reddit
Fuck that guy, don’t give him a cent
reidmrdotcom@reddit
If it's just the derailleur, I'd think any shop could do that. You or a friend may even be able to do it. Don't really know about why they won't work on it, but it's also not really something you can force. Kind of a "that sucks" situation.
Otherwise-Office-443@reddit
Understandable to just be confused about the reasoning behind it, especially if you’ve worked with them before. Maybe you didn’t mean to criticize them or say they have to work on it, but your title is easy to read as “let’s judge who’s wrong/at fault here”
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Yeah that's fair. The title is probably more confrontational than i really intended. I'll see if I can edit it.
Prestigious-Growth-5@reddit
he is the problem. Its made of bike parts. A bike shop can work on it. Some shops have battery safety concern (never seen myself) but this guy is nuts
ngiecokr@reddit
Are you in California? In California class 3 bikes cannot have a throttle. It is different in other places. Where I live that bike is still classified as class 3. But if he doesn't want to work on it, you probably should just take it elsewhere
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Not in California
BoringBob84@reddit
California allows sort of a throttle on Class 1 and 3 ebikes - assistance up to walking speed. The only state of which I am aware that allows dual-class (i.e., Class 2/3: throttle up to 20 MPH and then pedal assistance only up to 28 MPH) ebikes is Minnesota.
limited_empathy@reddit
Sounds like a upfront guy honestly.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
No doubt. I don't blame him for making a call that he feels he has to make. It just felt wierd to have him compare the bike to a moped lol.
limited_empathy@reddit
Seem like a general statement rather than directed at your situation or bike.
Acsteffy@reddit
Upfront, but also sounds incompetent
Flat-Avocado-6258@reddit
Lmao a moped 😂😂
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Right? Like I get it if he doesnt want to work on the bike but let's be serious about why
Flat-Avocado-6258@reddit
You weren’t even a dick about it either. I just cracked up at the last slide with the pic of the bike attached 😂😂 that’s some shit i would have said too. Like bro come on.
symbolofnope@reddit (OP)
Appreciate it. I wasnt trying to be a dick i just thought it was a funny conversation by the end of it.
Dr__Pangloss@reddit
does your mom need the throttle? it should be removed, and then it is a class III bike. you should pay him to remove it.
dstlouis558@reddit
Whats the repair?
ComprehensiveSwitch@reddit
He’s pretty clearly wrong but you can’t make him service a bike he refuses to service. Just means he sucks as a mechanic.
457kHz@reddit
Take it to a Harley shop and see if they'll work on it. Spit on the floor and tell them they aren't good mechanics if they won't work on it.
mad_mike51@reddit
It doesn't mean he sucks as a mechanic. Normally it's quite the opposite, it means he has enough work and a good enough reputation to be picky with what he works on.
djl32@reddit
You're asking two different questions:
What classification is this ebike? It doesn't matter here.
Can an independent shop, or in this case, an independent contractor refuse to service your bike? Yes, and no justification is necessary. He can simply say "No."
(Which you didn't ask) Is this a good business model? The jury is still out...
actuallymg@reddit
Upper Valley here too! I know Cowbell. He’s pretty respected in the bike community if that helps. Sorry you didn’t have a great experience.