Fake Gears, Real Fun: A Pro Driver Makes the Case for EV Gimmicks
Posted by Anchor_Aways@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 78 comments
Posted by Anchor_Aways@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 78 comments
jondes99@reddit
I’m #saverhemanuals all the way, but I have a bigger beef with the 5,800 pound Charger in the article than I do a simulated shift. 3 tons for a 4-5 passenger sedan is just stupid.
gfewfewc@reddit
it's two inches longer than a fucking pacifica
jondes99@reddit
And 1500 pounds heavier.
Styrak@reddit
1000lbs more than a Model S.
xlb250@reddit
Curious what you think a midsize sedan is?
The interior passenger volume is half way between a 5 series and 7 series.
jondes99@reddit
Well, damn. It’s practically an Elise in that case.
dfields3710@reddit
Confidently wrong. A full size sedan. It’s larger than a BMW 5 series.
jondes99@reddit
Well an M5 is over 5,000 pounds so this makes perfect sense. Confidently illogical.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
I also think it’s too heavy, but it’s definitely not midsize. It’s full size.
andrewia@reddit
I think the charger is best seen as a Jeep Wagoneer EV that was re-bodied as a grand tourer. Like the last USDM Ford Taurus, it was a relatively quick and cheap development cycle that reused an SUV platform. Which explains why it's so unsuitable for the task of being a sedan, much less a sporty one. I wish they had branded it a Chrysler 300 since it's much better as a grand tourer.
Puff-Daddy-Sun@reddit
The people complaining about this kind of stuff are lame af. Just turn it off if you hate fun. No harm in options
Bonerchill@reddit
I just don’t drive an EV, or any modern, if I want real fun. Easy choice.
vodkaknockers@reddit
gate, meet keeper
Bonerchill@reddit
It’s funny how personal preference became a gate to be kept.
I don’t derive fun from heavy, complicated things, and never will. Most people shouldn’t, but they’re limited by needing their car to be multiple use- I don’t need that compromise. Every input I make should be through a mechanical linkage, preferably unassisted.
A hand saw is preferable to a chainsaw. A scythe is preferable to a weed whacker. A mule is preferable to a tractor. And a lightweight, manual car is preferable to a heavy EV with a fake gearbox and fake shifts.
yamsyamsya@reddit
Yea you have never used a scythe if you prefer it over a weed whacker. And a mule over a tractor? Share what you are smoking with the rest of the class please.
Bonerchill@reddit
I have used a scythe. I have used a mule, although not for ploughing.
I yearn for the removal of the easy and a return to the hard.
TreeFittyy@reddit
Is /r/carscirclejerk a thing?
Bonerchill@reddit
It is not.
cookingboy@reddit
I think the problem is that you are presenting a lot of opinions as facts.
For example:
Says who? Nobody would pay to see Texas Handsaw Massacre
Avedas@reddit
Chainsaws have no soul
nickybuddy@reddit
Oh buddy nothing gives you that high like pulling up to the saw meet and everyone wants to gawk your 1980s Stanley 30tpi covered in rust.
New chainsaw users won’t get that feeling
Bonerchill@reddit
I prefer a hand saw. It brings me more pleasure to use, to feel it cut and know my strength and technique makes it rapid and effective.
Also, a hand saw is so much quieter when dismembering a cheerleader.
-----seven-----@reddit
honestly that sounds like it could be a pretty good comedy so maybe not
yamsyamsya@reddit
Yea you have never used a scythe if you prefer it over a weed whacker. And a mule over a tractor? Share what you are smoking with the rest of the class please.
gemini56_@reddit
There is no gate being kept, he said "I", its a personal opinion.
acog@reddit
My perfect combo: EV for practical stuff, Miata for fun stuff.
M1k0M1k@reddit
The problem is not that this option exists, but that others disappear
thisonelikescoffee@reddit
Having this option would be fun, but I'm more worried about where all of my data ends up and what is done with it. Dumb cars>smart cars imo.
bwoah_gimmethedrink@reddit
*got paid to make the case
strongmanass@reddit
I saw the video on that. This whole argument is based on the implicit premise that
It doesn't matter if it's real or not. It doesn't matter if there are no actual gears. The mental association of power with a gearset and the associated feeling of the shift are inherent to automotive pleasure. These aren't fake manuals so it's not a case of the physical process of heel toeing and moving a gear lever. It's just the feeling.
Vhozite@reddit
I’ve thought about this a few times it’s a weird thought experiment. My car sounds good in the stereotypical V8 sense, but it screaming while getting absolutely walked by a silent Model 3 felt really weird…it was almost disorienting to see all the sound my car makes was suddenly pointless. Idk it’s hard to describe. On the other end, I gave a coworker a ride to the store yesterday a she commented a couple times about how exciting it was even though we were not going fast at all (I explicitly don’t speed with new passengers) my car is just loud at times lol so it felt fast I guess. If by some magic 100 years ago cars got quieter as performance increased instead of louder, I wonder how we would feel about all these exhaust noises today.
UnnamedStaplesDrone@reddit
Haha I had a similar thought when I was getting tailed by a model y. It slowed way the fuck down when the road got curvy tho.
BulaBulangiu@reddit
It's all a pavlovian response, just like the smell of alcohol, cigarettes, weed, etc. No one is born liking any of that but we associate them with certain experiences. Loud => fast because for most of history, they had to be loud before we turned that into a feature. goodhart's law says hello :)
I love the motor whine on my ev because it's a direct consequence of the technology it's using. It hasn't yet turned into a "feature" to tune / enable and stuff. I don't think i'll enjoy it as much when we get to that point.
There's a RichRebuilds (?!) video on youtube when he's talking about electric cars and how they're like a silent party and you don't get kids yelling to rev it up and fathers giving you the thumbs up and all I could think was "driving should always be a silent party !!!!". I love watching F1 and get goosebumps hearing a tuned lambo scream like a jet engine on carwow but I do want that randomly by my window while doing other shit ? fuck no, I already have a downpiped golf r asshole around that I wanna skin alive.
I absolutely love that I can rip on an electric car and no one will know beside a little squeal here and there :)
withsexyresults@reddit
Probably the same way we feel about loud harleys. Very loud but also very slow
SNRatio@reddit
I'd say there are two different types of "fun" here: gamification and stimulation. Engine/exhaust noise and blips can be fun stimuli because of their associations, yes. But there is also gamification: driving is a set of skills, and it is fun to improve and use those skills. A shifter and a clutch aren't just traditional, they add two more levels of difficulty to a game.
Also the author brings up that the fake noise, when implemented well, does become part of the game and the skillset:
BrunoEye@reddit
I'm curious if there are some EV specific functions that are currently automated that could be exposed to the driver for increased control and fun factor.
Like imagine having a second throttle pedal for your left foot and controlling the front and rear motors separately.
lee1026@reddit
A lot. Regenerative braking vs physical, torque steering on the 4 motor cars, battery temps and cooling, and that’s the first things that come to mind.
Dredgeon@reddit
I really, really enjoy cornering. Getting my line just how I want is where most if my joy of driving comes from. I think fake shifts are fucking stupid and the fact that they now make some EVs and CVTs with fake shifts is so dumb to me. It's funny how all the same people who think pumped in engine noise and fake vents are for posers are now praising this bullshit.
Secret-Teaching-3549@reddit
Shifting it satisfying for me because you taking on a role in the mechanical operation of the car. Fake shifting on an EV isn't taking over the role of anything.
ViperThreat@reddit
I'd go so far as to say that it's a feedback input as well. I can literally feel my drivetrain through my shiftknob. Granted, electric drivetrains are much more simple, so less "feeling" is needed, but that "feeling" adds texture to the experience, and (to your point), makes you feel like you are part of the machine, rather than a passenger along for the ride.
xt1nct@reddit
I think shifting adds a layer to racing. One has to understand which gear to be in for best power and putting that power down when tires are at the limit.
Other than that I personally don’t care and would happily run a single speed EV.
I will add though, gears and engine noise to help with sensing correct turn in speed.
Snoo93079@reddit
I think the experience of a horse galloping under me the only way to have fun!
BananaHibana1@reddit
It places manual interaction as driving pleasure. Just like how driving modern cars in general is more boring now because of all the driving aids and electrical steering etc. Manual shifting is just one of the more major differences, which is why often it is used as the main argument. For me as a semi professional photographer, its the same with that. My mirrorless camera is objectively great, gets the job done and is whats required for clients. But the mechanical sensation of a analogue camera just makes me feel so much more connected and brings me more pleasure, just like how i prefer driving a manual ferrari 430 than a modern 296
ParkScaleAutoart@reddit
Pretty pointless really. hy make it a fake petrol car? They should embrace hat it is. Also why do they make them to look like a petrol car? They don't need bonnets as there is no engine there?
DetroitLionsEh@reddit
I’d be totally fine with fake gears and no clutch, but I’d need the stick
Paddle shifting doesn’t do it for me
aka_mank@reddit
Agree.
But the stick would need serious weight and a very satisfying click into each gear.
Dredgeon@reddit
Maybe just keep a fidget cube in the cup holder
leedle1234@reddit
Why not just add a fake clutch too then like Toyota is testing. Just put a full sim racing setup inside and make it a sport trim option or something.
DetroitLionsEh@reddit
I’d be cool with that but it’s not needed for me.
Mastering the clutch biting point is big for a lot of manual fans, but I’d be fine just taking my foot off the gas, moving to 2nd gear and putting it back on
GymLeaderMatt@reddit
I mentioned this in other comments before, but check out videos of the Lexus Levin EV concept. Truly interesting engineering aimed towards enthusiasts.
Rough_Cancel7265@reddit
Worst case a driver finds the noise and shifting annoying and turns it off. Best case it helps engagement on a fun road. Contrary to popular belief not every fun driving road is a tight technical road course where a Miata shines.
coltondoescars@reddit
Honestly, if people genuinely find it fun, then more power to them. For me, though, the engineering side of cars is part of what makes me enjoy them. So, knowing that it's fake just kind of makes it hard for me to personally get into it. Idk. 🤷♂️
Dredgeon@reddit
I especially hate when it's forced. Why should I be forced to have an inefficient vehicle just because some like the feeling of a gearbox more than driving.
boturboegt@reddit
I own a 5n and the gears and fake noise is what makes the car special. Take thst away and there are plenty of better evs out there.
Dredgeon@reddit
So there's nothing good about it then.
Dr__Nick@reddit
Yeah, fake engine noises and shift points will add a lot to the 10 minutes before the performance degrades. 5,000 pounds plus? These things are obese, it's like making a lowered SUV handle, which is possible but I'm not sure that's most enthusiasts' idea of a good time.
BigOleGrapefruit@reddit
-complains about a car being obese and that its like making a lowered SUV handle -drives a 3,600lb "Mini" that is a lowered SUV
LordofSpheres@reddit
Even better: I can't imagine a Clubman JCW is going to last much longer than 10 minutes before heat soaking the shit out of itself and degrading performance. So there's hypocrisy there too.
Dr__Nick@reddit
Your argument makes very little sense.
5,000 lbs >> 3600 lbs.
They’re trying to make something that weighs like a Range Rover handle out there.
Avalon_Don@reddit
Can’t engineer fun into supposed “sports cars” that weigh more than full size SUVs…
Ghepardo@reddit
The fake gears in the Hyundai isn’t just the sound. Its about how you carry momentum and speed into and out of a corner either 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear. I’m surprised people arent focusing on this being a bigger deal than the sound. It just shows how few people genuinely drive MTs. For automatic people its just noise.
SloppyPlatypus69@reddit
Has anyone played sim racing with a steering wheel? Of course manual shifting yourself with a clutch and gear box is more fun even though it's fake.
SilverBackGuerilla@reddit
Majority of iRacing races are with vehicles that have auto/sequential gearboxes because that's what most modern race cars have.
MumpsyDaisy@reddit
There's sim driving outside of iRacing, plenty of games will let you drive street cars or historical motorsports cars with H-pattern gearboxes.
xt1nct@reddit
Also, it’s not really fake. It’s a fake in a sense it’s a game but it simulates power and engine braking.
That is not needed at all in EV. Formula E uses a single gear.
However, having an option in a performance ev to have fakes gears doesn’t hurt anyone, as long as it can be disabled.
lunaticfridgeprime@reddit
The people who bitch about this are the same people who will only recommend a manual gearbox, as though any given modern auto isn't going to be faster AND more efficient.
Manual shifing is fun. Feeling gear shifts is fun.
LogicWavelength@reddit
I just bought a 2025 Tacoma with a stick shift.
It’s a truck… shifting any faster than “old man taking his time” is going to result in jolting my passengers. It’s super slow… I actually think it’s slower than the automatic.
But man, do I smile ear to ear when I drive it.
GREG_FABBOTT@reddit
My dad gave me his hand me down 2006 5MT Corolla, and traded up to a newer 2013(?) 4AT Corolla. The manual was a much better car. Not just more fun, but more consistent too. The auto would hunt for gears when you set cruise on the highway. It literally could not stay in a single gear.
RentAscout@reddit
I'll never forgive jeep switching to cable shifter linkages in the Wrangler/Gladiator.
Trendiggity@reddit
Fun and predictable. When my car is in second gear at x rpm I know what it's going to do when I stomp on the gas, or engine brake, or shift to whatever other gear. It's my preference. I like that physical connection to the drivetrain. I have zero interest in the driving dynamics of an EV because they feel like an appliance that you're operating with buttons.
This is also why I like motorcycles. I don't want a CVT or automatic bike/ATV. Unfortunately manufacturers are trying to move everything to belt drive or electronic shifting and I have no sweet clue who is buying this shit or why OEMs are trying to eradicate shifters and clutches altogether. Honda's e-clutch is a great example: it's an answer to a question no one asked while adding several hundred dollars worth of extra electronics to the price of the bike. I don't get it 🤷♂️
icemonsoon@reddit
Fuck the marketing gimmicks, make it light and handle properly
Emotional_Signal7883@reddit
Fuck your skeuomorphism.
Vhozite@reddit
Thanks for the new word.
For anyone else who had no idea what this meant:
tordenflesk@reddit
It's unimaginative, tacky and'll age quicker than car-phones or head-rest DVD-players.
Not_Daijoubu@reddit
I haven't driven an Ioniq 5 N so I can't say regarding that, but my biggest gripe with the EVs I have driven and really most "appliance" cars is a lack of feedback.
The article does well to highlight the importance of noise among other things for driving engagement. And it goes for anything else too - chassis communication, pedal feel, sound deadening, etc. A manual transmission is only a part of a greater gestalt sense of engagement.
Personally, I have more fun driving cars in video games with a handheld controller than driving something like a Model Y. The visuals, sound, and controller vibration in a game - as limited as they are - are all designed to be stimulating whereas a lot of cars are designed for comfort and convenience at the cost of being numb and detached.
AoF-Vagrant@reddit
It doesn't have to just copy old cars. I've always thought EVs should have a Pole Position-style shifter that you slam up/down with a beefy clunk.
Kind_Yogurtcloset898@reddit
hm
furrynoy96@reddit
For me, it depends on the car