Moved from Berlin to London ? please share how you feel
Posted by curious-rower8@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 61 comments
I currently live in Berlin and I feel quality of life here is pretty good. Everything is easily accessible. For e.g. supermarkets, kids play ground, parks, daycare, school, public transit stop etc reachable in around 5 min walking distance.
I live in A zone in a 90sqm flat still its not crazy expensive.
Neighborhoods are green, walkable and filled with cafe and eatouts.
I can reach my work place in 30 min max by public transit so I never need to own a car and I hardly use cabs.
But language/cultural barriers makes me feel isolated because I don't speak german and I don't have friends here.
So thinking of pursuing to move to London ( my work allows internal transfer if I want )
Reasons for london - english, multi cultural city with many immigrants, more job opportunities for me and wife.
I would like to hear from people who moved from Berlin and London, how do you feel about it ?
doonilbibi@reddit
Have you gotten rid of your flat yet haha? I am looking now for a place in Berlin as I’m moving there soon and it seems impossible
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
haha, already have people lined up for my flat. Best of luck with your move.
If you are not from Germany, read about tenant laws which are very strong here.
Zwischenschach25@reddit
Could you try learning some German?
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
I speak at B1 level but I have no one to speak german and make it better. My work is in english.
Germans already have their schools/uni friends and they keep to themselves ( which makes sense too )
Sensitive_Tea5720@reddit
I have been learning German since Aug and currently at B1 and I don’t even live in Germany yet. I take private classes via Italki. B1 after seven years isn’t good at all. A similar apartment in London will cost you 3-4 times more than in Berlin. Germany is a better option.
ObviouslyASquirrel26@reddit
Once we were all like you… I moved here with B1 and it’s steadily gotten worse, even with classes, for all the reasons OP mentioned. I never use it.
Sensitive_Tea5720@reddit
I am currently in Germany for a few weeks looking at apartments and just getting to know the region I’m considering and I speak German here every day.
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
You live in London and planning to move to Germany ?
What are your reasons ?
Sensitive_Tea5720@reddit
I live in Sweden. I would definitely never move to London though - expensive, polluted, little vacation, filled with tourists etx.
Electronic-Call-4319@reddit
It sounds like most of Europe honestly. They stay within their circle.
yeahthatsnot1@reddit
Wanted to ask the same. It seems not even part of OP's considerations while job opportunities and social integration will usually increase significantly if you learn the language of the country you're residing in.
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
Its very hard buddy specially to learn at native level when you have no one to speak German to. From class and books I could push upto B1. I don't have motivation or push further as it feels like I am learning forever.
Daidrion@reddit
Same here, I'm sitting somewhere around B2 and... Well, there's no real reason to improve it. When I ask my German friends if they can recommend me something, they consume content in English themselves. There's no contemporary culture to dig into except for occasional show like Dark every 5 years, even some genres of e.g. youtube videos that are common in English or my native language are just not a thing here... Music... Don't even start on that. Feels like a content wasteland, which is somewhat surprising given that this is a rather big and rich country.
napalmtree13@reddit
I’m C1 and sometimes even that doesn’t feel like enough for some situations, like seeing the doctor or a specialist.
I agree that German entertainment just isn’t very good. I think it’s because they get funding regardless of what they produce. On one hand, I appreciate the interesting documentaries and reports that this funding also leads to, but on the other hand…you also get a lot of slop.
Daidrion@reddit
Which is also weird, btw. As one of my friends once said, "it's easier for me to speak to Spanish with my A2 than it is with C1 to Germans".
Sensitive_Tea5720@reddit
Your quality of life will suffer immensely. I don’t think it’s worth it.
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
I see the cost as one of reasons. What other reasons to make quality of life go down in London ?
Sensitive_Tea5720@reddit
Air pollution, mass tourism, noise pollution, very little vacation etc. London sounds like a nightmare in my opinion.
Smooth-Raisin-2888@reddit
I moved to UK last year after many years in DE.
Check my post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HENRYUK/s/iU72X7wC5m
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
what prompted your move ?
Smooth-Raisin-2888@reddit
Loneliness or lack of social connections mainly
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
Do you think moving to UK is making it better?
Smooth-Raisin-2888@reddit
We already have family / relatives and some old friends, so yes.
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
perfect, thanks
BobcatSpiritual7699@reddit
Don’t forget your stab vest.
Daidrion@reddit
I mean, OP lives in Berlin.
BobcatSpiritual7699@reddit
Yeah, very much not the safety concerns of London.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
Berlin's murder rate is a lot higher than London's.
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
What do you mean ? I find Berlin very safe. I have walked home late at night all alone no one bothered me. Never heard my international colleagues being unsafe so far.
DrMacAndDog@reddit
Obviously know nothing about London
BobcatSpiritual7699@reddit
….is there all the time for over a decade….
The-American-Abroad@reddit
If you’re Indian I’d definitely go for it. Berlin may feel cosmopolitan but it’s not really, at its core. London on the other hand is very much an international city with a huge south Asian population.
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
thanks, this is very appealing.
Specially with kids where they can grow with familiar community around
The-American-Abroad@reddit
Not sure how familiar with London you are but look into this area: Southall
Primary-Angle4008@reddit
I moved from Munich to London 18 years ago and tbh I love London but it’s crazy expensive to live here and the quality of housing is definitely not the same as in Germany
Any very central properties are out of most people’s budget But London has a great public transport network unless you live in the very outer areas and is overall a green city with loads to do. I would say depending on where you live you can be in central in between 30-60 min easily
We also have a thriving Indian community (my husband is Indian) and food and company is easily available and overall it’s very international.
Tbh while not everything is greener on the other side I never regretted moving here and for me personally the biggest let down is housing but even that you adjust too and for me it’s mostly the layouts but it’s a matter of taste as well and if your renting you def are less protected my law compared to Germany. The weather overall is similar to Germany with mostly lovely summers but milder winters
So I wouldn’t say you would loose anything by moving here
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
Also, do you have kids ? If yes how do you find raising kids there ?
Primary-Angle4008@reddit
Yes I have two, both born here in London and are teenagers now.
Overall there are great communities and loads on offer especially for younger children up until 12 / 13, plenty of museums, playgrounds, parks and activity centers
There is less on offer for teenagers and there is definitely issues around gangs etc so you have to keep a close eye on your older kids
Maternity care and health care in general aren’t that great here and I’d say Germany is ahead of this. We actually had treatments done in India as it takes ages to be seen if it’s considered non urgent
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
thanks for writing this.
Do you know which neighbourhoods in London I can target to move in with my 2 kids ? They are in kita currently and go to shcool in 2 years.
We dont want to stay too remote outside.
Primary-Angle4008@reddit
Here school starts much earlier then in Germany, at age 4 but it’s probably not too much different at that stage compared to KiTa as very play based.
London has 32 boroughs so it’s difficult to give recommendations. I always lived in east London so I’d say Waltham Forest, Hackney are good neighbourhoods but then there is Redbridge which has a large Indian population but is further out and not well connected with public transport Eastham also has a large Indian population, better connected but feels less affluent
I know north London is I believe also not bad but haven’t been there that much I’d actually say maybe a weekend trip just to look at some neighbourhoods would be good
For school ratings you can look at Ofsted and look at rightmove to get an idea about properties for rent or buying in different areas
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
Danke
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
thanks for writing this.
Do you miss german bread ?
SDV01@reddit
Would Amsterdam (or nearby Amstelveen, Haarlem, or Almere) be an option also?
There is a sizeable Indian community, along with a large international population in general. Around two third of newborns in the region have at least one parent who was born abroad. International schools are relatively affordable, including Indian schools such as Amity, although many international families still choose local Dutch schools. Daycare is not free, but it is heavily subsidized.
It also has a much better airport hub for connections within Europe and for intercontinental flights than Berlin.
Playgrounds and parks are everywhere, you do not need to own a car, and commute times can be comparable to Berlin.
The downside is that rent is noticeably higher than in Berlin, and some groceries and dining out cost more as well, though both are still generally cheaper than London. You may also have to switch from B1 German to A1 Dutch, although in places like Amstelveen you could realistically get by in English indefinitely because much of the community are internationals.
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
thanks, I will check this.
I didn't look into this direction thinking it would be similar to Berlin experience
neurofireworks@reddit
It’s very similar indeed
allergicturtle@reddit
How long have you been in Berlin? I'm roughly 7 years and can promise...it doesn't get better with time. People come and go in this city, so friends you have one year can be completely different the next. I have quite a lot of German friends and a German partner but many of these German friends also moved away. I think it's not a city for long term.
akie@reddit
Opposite of my experience to be honest. Everyone I know here has been here forever and ever. Like, they don’t want to leave and if they do - they come back 😂
In Berlin with German partner for 14 years
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
Great to hear that perspective. Anything helped you specifically to make it home ?
akie@reddit
Well, I came here because I really liked the city. I like the vibe, I like the energy, and I wanted to make it my home. Still true after 14 years. If I’m away for a while and come back I’m like “aahhh it’s so good to be back”. So, you know, that really helps. It was never “just” any other city for me, I came here because I specifically wanted to be in this city.
Then, I made some friends from work, and my German partner had a bit of a network already. Finally, two kids later we have a bunch of friends who are other parents we know from daycare and school.
The kids are also really rooted here, that helps.
I’m in IT, my wife in academia.
allergicturtle@reddit
Do they work in tech or what kinds of jobs? I'm in tech, many people in my circles leave due to housing shortages, low salaries and lack of upwards mobility compared to other markers. It's very difficult to be a non-native director or manager here, especially as a woman.
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
around same time buddy.
I also feel its a transient city. So many folls I know moved out.
Doesn't having german partner makes your life much better compared to other expats? Could you relate with german culture more ?
allergicturtle@reddit
If anything it has made me feel more annoyed with German culture. Inflexibility, negativity/complaining, narrow mindedness and lack of ambition all amplified. When you stick to expat groups, you still see the charm of the city and people.
Zealousideal_Rub6758@reddit
As an English person, you'd be welcomed with open arms honestly. There's a big Indian community and the English get on very well with them, despite the negative media. Its more expensive, but ce la vie!
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
that is great to hear. Thanks
Zealousideal_Rub6758@reddit
If not London, any other major city is much more affordable, a little more shit, but still as welcoming.
DanBennettDJB@reddit
Where are you from?
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
India
DanBennettDJB@reddit
Probably easier to integrate in London as an Indian but your quality of life (unless you earn 100k+) will be significantly worse
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
Why do you say quality of life is worse ?
ToTooThenThan@reddit
What is apartment quality in Berlin like in London you can pay £1800 (€2000) for a one bed apartment and the apartment probably won't even be nice, ok apartmens in decent areas are gonna eat your salary, then there is council tax on top so it's gonna be 2k minimum to live a not very fancy life.
curious-rower8@reddit (OP)
ah shit, this is scary
Berlin rentals are such a huge win once you sign contract rent can only increase if ita justified by inflation index.
DanBennettDJB@reddit
Because everything is 1.5x more expensive