Intel reportedly has no Xe3P “Celestial” Arc Gaming GPUs planned, Xe4 "Druid" up in the air - VideoCardz.com
Posted by EmptyVolition242@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 68 comments
Interesting. So it looks like Xe4 was not cancelled which means we'll get another Arc generation before the Nvidia iGPUs.
Xe3P -> Nova Lake
Xe4 -> Razer Lake
ProZoid_10@reddit
Entry gamers Intel was supposed to save us
Exist50@reddit
This sarcasm or a typo?
ProZoid_10@reddit
For entry users they’ve abandoned them with obsolete gpu day 1
Strazdas1@reddit
No they didnt.
imaginary_num6er@reddit
Those entry gamers's hopes died when Nvidia bought Intel and effectively killed their future dGPU and XeSS support
_Lucille_@reddit
It tried but no one wanted to buy it.
It offers great value and is loved by a lot of enthusiasts but was not able to penetrate the consumer market.
TophxSmash@reddit
if no one buys amd why would they buy the newer even more suspect product?
xb9j@reddit
They just were not a good enough value for most people vs AMD and Nvidia to be worth the risk of trying the new option.
piesou@reddit
AMD -50$
F9-0021@reddit
Yes it is. People are literally just looking for any tiny excuse to buy Nvidia over Intel and AMD.
Exist50@reddit
They're not buying Intel over AMD either.
_Lucille_@reddit
they are amazing value: often come with a AAA game as well.
It is by far the best card in its price range even before that by a pretty wide margin, and even better than 2nd hand cards of previous gen at the price (while using less power).
kane91z@reddit
I bought a b580 for my daughters system and it’s been great :/
dudemanguy301@reddit
Not sure how they could.
Intels entry to dGPU was a “might as well” side project while eyeing up their future AI datacenter GPU ambitions.
Intels dGPU had poor performance per area, performance per watt, and performance per bandwidth. So at any given price bracket they had to compete on performance by selling a larger die, with a wider bus, more memory, and more power delivery / cooling than the competition. Aka more cost per unit. Targeting the low end just makes this worse as the margin to BoM ratio shrinks even further.
As a result, the division was operating at a loss which already made it a question of it leadership would stick it out long enough to get a foothold and turn some profit, but now datacenter AI demand started printing infinite money for all Fabs / Designers and everyone started diverting capacity away from consumer electronics for manufacturing. So now cost per unit is even higher, and has to be justified financially over AI datacenter contracts.
Exist50@reddit
That was not how it started, certainly. They SoCs were even designed by completely different teams, and used different versions of the IP. That might be their thinking now, but it's unclear how much overlap Intel sees.
Geddagod@reddit
A little insane that videocardz reported this part of the leak and not the bombshell about the DCAI roadmap, which is literally part of the same tweet that is getting linked here lol. Maybe they plan on a separate article later, or they don't believe that part as much.
Anyways, I'm honestly surprised Intel is even still considering Druid under LBT given his focus on margins, and the many other areas Intel has to improve on quickly, rather than trying to break into a new market. Celestial allegedly being cancelled is unfortunate news, but is it really all that surprising given all that is happening at Intel?
EmptyVolition242@reddit (OP)
I remember Xe4 appearing on some marketing slides in 2024 before LBT was hired so I wouldn't be surprised if that's them just completing work they started earlier on. Also I wonder if Panther lake's success (despite the price) gave it a further lifeline.
Exist50@reddit
Even with client dGPUs dead they still have incentive to continue the Xe IP for iGPUs, datacenter, etc. And it looks like not much has really changed under Lip Bu after Pat killed Celestial late in his term.
TenshiBR@reddit
datacenter?
jhenryscott@reddit
Plus their workstation card market is exploding right now
Exist50@reddit
Not really. Where do you see numbers?
iDontSeedMyTorrents@reddit
Wasn't the B70 the top selling GPU on Newegg or something for a short time? They're probably going off that.
Which is a terrible benchmark for success.
xb9j@reddit
Everyone knows the true benchmark for success is the mindfactory sales numbers
imaginary_num6er@reddit
Intel can’t make GPUs on their own nodes
jhenryscott@reddit
They believe they can fab Druid on 14A
Exist50@reddit
Celestial was going to be (primarily) on 18A. It's not a matter of node.
jhenryscott@reddit
They WANTED it to be on 18A. They didn’t believe they could pull it off. I would bet that Druid is only some D50-D70 workstation cards anyway
Exist50@reddit
They clearly had more faith in 18A than that 2 years ago. I think the budget cuts explain the decision.
PilgrimInGrey@reddit
Because gaming market has slowed down in 2026-27. Xe3 is being aimed for workstations as inference cards. Xe4 is when they expect consumer demand to pick up.
battler624@reddit
Dcai?
Exist50@reddit
Intel's server group.
RandomGenericDude@reddit
Data centre AI?
cabbeer@reddit
This was expected with the nvidea investment :(
NewBeginningR@reddit
A lot of people in these comments talking about, "No one wanted to buy Intel descrete GPUs." Please then, point me to where I can get all the Arc B580's that no one was buying at $250 right now.
Could it be that Intel just never made enough of them. I only ever saw the B580 at $250 once at Microcenter, and never since.
Sufficient-Owl1826@reddit
Honestly, it's a shame if Celestial is dead. Battlemage barely got off the ground. I get that margins are tight, but competition is good for us consumers. Without Intel, we're back to just Nvidia and AMD. That sucks.
nittanyofthings@reddit
Intel's choice to focus on handheld gaming with the G-series SoC was quite reasonable. They can build the Arc brand reputation in handheld better than in discrete GPU.
ProZoid_10@reddit
Handhelds is niche, theyre focusing mobile as they should
Exist50@reddit
More importantly, PTL was designed when they were investing in dGPUs. It doesn't reflect current priorities. Their big iGPU efforts were reportedly cancelled as well. Or at least delayed a gen.
AreYouAWiiizard@reddit
Delayed? But then when will the Nvidia collab take affect?
Exist50@reddit
I don't actually know the situation myself. Just going on the rumors of NVL-AX's cancellation, though still some chatter about a possible future gen.
It's also still unclear how Intel's treating the Nvidia collab. Is that the definitive solution for "high end" iGPUs, or something to live alongside an in-house offering? I've certainly got no clue.
imaginary_num6er@reddit
Nvidia’s investment is considered a “take-out acquisition”. In exchange for x86, Intel will abandon XeSS and their own GPU tiles
DeuzExMachina_@reddit
I got a feeling Intel's doesn't either
DuhPai@reddit
It's increasingly clear that the deal was announced to pump the stock and nothing more. They probably only started working out the details after the announcement.
DerpSenpai@reddit
It makes ton of sense to move their big iGPUs to Intel nodes and if they aren't as good as Nvidia, simply offer Nvidia as an option
HisDivineOrder@reddit
Intel won't mess with Arc until Nvidia starts showing up in their chips. Then they'll start making the "hard" choices.
It'll probably be preceded by Tom Peterson leaving Intel one cold Friday when no one is particularly expecting news.
PastaPandaSimon@reddit
Nvidia is no replacement for Intel iGPUs. Now that Xe is a legit powerful integrated chip with the kind of software support it took long years to build, it'd be foolish to let it go and just use much more expensive competitor chips you have no (cost) control over.
The Nvidia+Intel chips are most certainly happening in special series, not bread and butter Intel chips for mainstream laptops and PCs.
Exist50@reddit
Are you talking about Arc as in dGPUs or GPU IP in general? Because client dGPUs already seem dead, but they'll still need IP for iGPUs and datacenter unless they really give up. Just don't see it.
LastChancellor@reddit
But what about the iGPU tho, will Nova Lake get Xe3P
With how much of a leap we got in just one year from Arc 140T/Xe2 to Arc B390/Xe3, Intel is just one generation away from having RTX 5050 equivalent iGPUs
Exist50@reddit
Not sure why this took so long to be reported. Intel killed Celestial better part of 2 years ago at this point. You can demarcate it pretty easily in the interview where Gelsinger talked about "focusing more on iGPUs". And they haven't said a word about future dGPUs since. Some very funny threads here in retrospect.
imaginary_num6er@reddit
MLID first reported Intel canceling Arc /s
KinTharEl@reddit
If the weatherman predicts a tornado, hurricane, blizzard, rain, sun, and everything in between, he can't claim he called it for when it rains.
Exist50@reddit
Broken clock and all that. If anything, he poisoned the well because anyone saying it was cancelled was accused of using him as the source.
Geddagod@reddit
Lmfao
randomkidlol@reddit
"killed celestial" is still fake news. its more like "killed consumer celestial". datacenter GPUs are a 100bil+/year market and intel would be happy if they can even get a 1% slice of that.
Exist50@reddit
Celestial is specifically the branding for client (consumer) GPUs, and even more specifically was only originally used to refer to dGPUs.
6950@reddit
Future gaming dGPUs though there is going to be AI/PRO GPUs
jhenryscott@reddit
Yup. All the B Pro cards have been a roaring success
Exist50@reddit
By what metric?
Exist50@reddit
AI, yes. Anything derived from the same client graphics IP like most workstation cards is very much up in the air. The workstation market is even smaller than gaming, and even more heavily dominated by Nvidia. It doesn't justify continuing the dGPU business by itself.
To be clear, Intel had completely separate teams for Arc dGPU vs Shores. The ARC folk were largely canned.
HatchetHand@reddit
I'm taking this with a grain of salt.
I don't doubt that it could very well be true, seeing the way all the tech companies are treating regular consumers now.
When the bubble crashes, and it must, we will still be here to buy whatever they see fit to sell us. The shareholders left holding the bag and they will want their investment back.
I cry for all the Blackwell GPUs that will never be powered on.
InflammableAccount@reddit
I cry for all the data center GPUs that are so proprietary in deployment design that when they become worth little to enterprise, they'll be extremely hard for small businesses and tinkerers to use.
Exist50@reddit
Intel is/was losing money (a lot of money) on client dGPUs. While the market exists, Intel has not been successful in producing a worthwhile product for it.
Exist50@reddit
Where do you see this? By all reports, RZL is going to reuse NVL iGPUs, so a mix of Xe3 and Xe3p.
EmptyVolition242@reddit (OP)
Xe4 is coming out in 2027 and Razer Lake is a 2027 product.
Exist50@reddit
Only the AI IP, and given their history, even that's a big "maybe". The client/graphics IP would be '28+. There were claims that even Titan Lake sticks with Xe3p, though I don't know how credible they are.
EmptyVolition242@reddit (OP)
Yeah from MLID lol. Personally I think it makes more sense for them to have started work on Xe4 and that they were given the time to finish the work before they go use the NVIDIA tiles.
We probably won't know for another year or so so who knows.
Exist50@reddit
"Xe4" is not a monolithic thing, and the leaker even alludes to this. There's IP development needed for compute/AI, which has priority, and other IP that's only used for graphics, an area where they've been scaling back investment. That part seems to be lagging a solid year+.
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