Is Aerobatics in a C152 worth it?

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RecentAmbition3081@reddit

A C152 isn’t aerobatic category. It’s a stupid thought.

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RecentAmbition3081@reddit

Where in the name of common sense do you “pilots” come up with these asinine ideas?

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happierinverted@reddit

Im guessing that you are not a pilot.

A well coordinated constant rate 1G roll in a C152 Aerobat takes a lot more skill than you might think.

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SSMDive@reddit

You can't do a roll at 1G. This is something people like to claim, but the physics do not allow it.

Let's say you are going to do a perfect competition aileron roll. You are sitting at 1G before you start the roll. You then will end up 1G right when you put in that right rudder and if you don't put in that right rudder you dish out and the nose drops, -1G while inverted because you are going to have to push fwd to maintain altitude, 1G left with left rudder and then back to 1G upright... So you were not at "1G" you had at best a 2G swing on two different axis.

And frankly, you are not doing that kind of roll in a A152. You are going to have to pull up taking you over 1G just at the start.

Most people think of a ballistic roll or a "gentleman's" roll. Where you pull up to get about 25-30* from level, neutralize the pitch, roll, and then recover from the 25-30* dive. So you will be about 1G till inverted when you will be 0-0.5G but the pitch up and the recover from the dive has to be higher than 1G or you will never change your vector.

And a barrel roll is combing a loop and a roll, so you have the G forces of a loop so you are at 2-3.5 G during parts of the maneuver.

I get what you are trying to say, but it is just not physically possible to "do a roll at 1G", it is not possible to rotate for take off at 1G since just sitting on the toilet reading this you are at 1G. It has to be +1G or your direction would never change.

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happierinverted@reddit

Technically you are of course correct. Any change of direction in any axis will induce a change in forces. But you know what I mean. A smooth roll in a low powered aircraft like a C152 Aerobatic with minimal, smooth acceleration in each axis is not easy. It takes quite a bit of skill. More than a higher powered aircraft in my experience anyway. Do you agree?

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SSMDive@reddit

Sure if you can do a good roll in a lower performance plane it makes doing a roll in a high performance plane easy. Never said anything to the contrary. I started with a 7ECA.

But my problem with the claim that "A roll is a 1G maneuver" is just not that it is wrong, it is that some wannabe hotshot is going to read it and believe it and take the schools 172 up and roll it... because what could go wrong it is only 1G!!!! I have met these people and they defend their actions by pointing to comments like yours and performances like Bob Hoover... "He can do it!!!" But a roll is simply not a 1G maneuver and if they screw it up the recovery G will be much higher and they simply are not Bob Hoover.

I dislike acro performances in normal category planes for the exact same reason. It feeds these people to think they can do stupid shit.

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RecentAmbition3081@reddit

I agree. Now wait for the down votes from the armchair experts

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RecentAmbition3081@reddit

Flown Giles 202, many other aerobatic aircraft,own a vintage aerobatic biplane. Yes. Flame away you Reddit people. You don’t matter

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happierinverted@reddit

Yet you continue to engage…

lol

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toshibathezombie@reddit

I'm sorry what are your credentials? Because god forbid anyone certified you to fly. Reading your comment history especially on aviation subs, you have such a shitty attitude towards other people which I really hope you don't carry into the cockpit. If you are infact a real pilot, you are definitely on the "inexperienced but overly confident" side of the dunning Kruger curve.

Before calling out other pilots, how about you learn a bit of humility and educate yourself .. like the fact that the 152 aerobat exists and actually if you can nail a roll or a loop in that, you are already a hell of a skilled pilot.

It's one thing being confidently wrong in saying that an aerobatic 152 doesn't exist, another to double down on your idiocract and say "pilots" have asinine ideas.

Do better.

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RecentAmbition3081@reddit

And you have enough time on your hands to research old posts to do what? Waste that ATP cert with 1500 hrs under your belt. See I can take it and give it. Like I say, it’s morally wrong to allow stupid people to think it’s ok to be stupid. I stand by my comment. A C152 is not aerobatic. An A152 is.

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toshibathezombie@reddit

C152 is a more widely recognized name for the aircraft series - OP then expanded to say he wants to do aerobatics in a 152, 99% of people here are smart enough to put 2+2 together and recognize that they are talking about an A152 aerobat. I guess you were the 1% that didn't

As for enough time, it took me the whole of 20 seconds whilst I was taking a shit.

You are just a salty, vile person with nothing better to do. With no value to add to a conversation or to OPs post.

I totally agree it's a waste to engage with stupid people, and I guess I should stop engaging with you because I don't know....maybe you think you are a skygod at your local GA airport... Whatever your issue is, I feel sorry for you.

Literally arguing over semantics rather than helping op. Man, get a life.

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RecentAmbition3081@reddit

I have a shitty attitude towards stupid people. It’s morally wrong to allow stupid people to think it’s ok to be stupid

46 years in aviation, pilot IA Recip FE. You sir are stupid for calling me out. Enjoy your day.

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RecentAmbition3081@reddit

The OP said C152, not A152. If so, then he needs to clarify his system and I will stand corrected.

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EliteEthos@reddit

Womp womp

Tell that to my aerobatic 150.

Comes with a manual and everything.

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RecentAmbition3081@reddit

I’m well aware and have flown Aerobat’s. Fun planes! But a Standard cat C152 is not an aerobatic category aircraft. While you can, most people learning will fall out of loops at the top, over speed it and bend stuff. Just saying. I had an instructor once say you want to do a snap roll? In a regular ole 150. We did. Then when I started working on them and realized what held the vertical on, I realized how stupid it was.

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EliteEthos@reddit

Spins, steep turns, chandelles, lazy eights are all considered aerobatic maneuvers too.

OP didn’t specific what was required… it seems like it might be pretty light stuff if he is using a 152 for it (and that it only requires 5 hours)… pretty sure all regular 150/152s can spun.

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RecentAmbition3081@reddit

Yes they can. Utility category

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toshibathezombie@reddit

Cessna 152 aerobat exists.

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RecentAmbition3081@reddit

No I beg to differ. A C152 is standard category. An A152 is aerobatic category. Reading comprehension is a thing.

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iamflyipilot@reddit

Cessna made aerobatic models of the 150 and the 152 known as the A150K,L and M and the A152.

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Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

The Aerobat variant of it is definitely certified for a wide range of aerobatic manoeuvres.

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toshibathezombie@reddit

If your question is specifically aeros in a 152 Vs another higher performance aeros plane: Talking to some people on the UK competitive aerobatics scene, the consensus is if you learn to master aerobatics in a 152 or a firefly, you'll ace aerobatics in an extra/Pitts if you go the full monty.

UK beginner/sport level pilots in the past have won in Cessna's against Pitts and extra 200/300s

If your question is "is aeros worth it or does the thrill wear off" - only you can answer that when you do it. I've seen loads of people tap out after 1 lesson because of motion sickness even though they've always wanted to do aerobatics. I tapped out when it came to competitive training at higher levels - my body was struggling to recover from extreme negative G maneuvers then having to fly and airliner the next day. Also competitive aerobatics gets very expensive and I found better uses for my money.

If your question is aeros Vs any other course: well you could save your money and spend it on a full IR. As a former FI, I'd say just skip the IMC rating. If you are doing the UK CPL IR, you will have to sit the ATPLs and do the IR course anyway, so just wait. Some of the answers here are from US pilots - the ratings are not the same , ie UK has night rating, US doesn't. Their IR is not as intense and the UK IR (ie ATPL exams and NDB holds etc) - this is talking from experience having done both licences.

If you have cash to burn, sure, go do aeros for shits and giggles, otherwise save it for ATPLS and a full IR.

That being said, spin training (1hr) is totally worth it and highly recommend to any student. The UK syllabus teaches INCIPIENT SPIN RECOVERY only by core syllabus. Ie, get out of a spin when you notice a wing drop, not a full spin. Many students do not ask for the extra optional lesson of full spin training... Where you actually fully develop it and then recover. The first spin you see is nerve racking, even on my FI course it was a bit of a deer in headlights moment. After 2 or 3 of them, they become second nature and it is a core maneuver in aerobatic competitons too.

Another thing you can put the money to is a proper cross country to build your confidence... Fly further afield than Scotland or the french coast, go to germany etc and get some international XC experience and have a fun with friends.

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Fair_Intention_4198@reddit (OP)

Thanks, yeah I’ll stick with the IR rating. After speaking to various instructors they all say do the IMC rating first, and then convert it to a full IR later on after doing the ATPL exams. That way I can fly IFR for the practice during my hour building before finishing my ATPL exams

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toshibathezombie@reddit

That's a valid point but the chances are, either it's a VMC day and you will enjoy time building in VFR, or, knowing the UK, it's IMC conditions and unless you have an aircraft that's certified in known icing, you won't want to fly in IMC anyway (especially towards autumn/winter). Also the IRR will probably have alot of cross over and repetition with the full IR.

Further, if your plan is commercial flying one day (specifically airlines) then a single IR is useless unless you go for something like a PC12 or Caravan gig... Or SEP IR instructor.

Be careful with oil prices too, with what's going on in the world - training may get more expensive if Iran/Ukraine doesn't end any time soon, so I would be trying to save a little pot of cash to focus on core licences

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legonutter@reddit

If you want a career in aviation, multi-IFR should be your priority. Then you can earn a living flying rightside up and spend your savings on flying upside down.

I had access to a 150 aerobat and it was a very affordable entry point to powered aerobatics, but holy crap it was so slow to climb to altitude with 2 people onboard. Honeslty I found gliding/soaring to offer more opportunities for inverted flight per dollar spent. (on a good day)

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_Sixteen@reddit

It depends on what you like personally. For me, aerobatics definitely. I don't even plan to get instrument rating

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Kein-Deutsc@reddit

Weird I’m the opposite. I don’t have a wish in the world flipping around an airplane but instrument procedures are the coolest thing to me

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Independent-Reveal86@reddit

I’d do the aerobatics. It’s great fun and will make you a better pilot and that translates to all other flying you do.

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Kemerd@reddit

Is track racing in a Nissan Altima worth it?

Jokes aside, I mean sure, it’d probably be fun. Personally I think it makes you a better pilot, but I’d prioritize IMC and then aerobatics after.

IFR flying will make you a better pilot more than aerobatics will, I feel like aerobatics are the final boss of aviation after commercial license.

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BChips71@reddit

IMC without question. More likely for you to accidentally encounter a cloud rather than accidentally encountering an unintended split S.

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BandicootNo4431@reddit

I get the urge to flip the plane a lot more than touch a cloud.

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Lord_Giles@reddit

Maybe if he does aerobatics in imc he can get both ratings simultaneously?

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Hour_Tour@reddit

Challenge accepted

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unable_compliance@reddit

I did tail wheel and aerobatics for fun when I hit a bit of a motivation slump when I was in my training journey. Yeah the course was fun. I took 2 friends up at seperate times to do them. Both got sick, one before we even made it out of the circuit.

I never did aerobatics again, or flew a tail dragger again for that matter…

Personally if I had my time again, I’d save my money. But everybody is different. Only you can answer for yourself.

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Hour_Tour@reddit

If you're going commercial, is it worth doing IRR separate to IR? I'm not commercial so wouldn't know, just sounds like extra steps for no reason.

Anyway, I'd do acro, teaches you a lot about the limitations of the aircraft and energy management.

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Fair_Intention_4198@reddit (OP)

Yeah, if you do IMC rating (formally IRR) for 15 hours, then you can do 25 hours IR solo which also counts towards hour building for CPL, so two birds with one stone. Then you can do another 10 hours after that to take it to a Full IR. It also allows you to start IMC training without needing to do any ATPL exams which is a bonus

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SSMDive@reddit

Sounds like IR is the better choice. And I love aerobatics.

IR will save your life and make more available flying days. Aerobatics will make flying more fun (except get good spin training - that could save your life).

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toshibathezombie@reddit

Talking to some people on the UK competitive aerobatics scene, the consensus is if you learn to master aerobatics in a 152 or a firefly, you'll ace aerobatics in an extra/Pitts if you go the full monty.

UK beginner/sport level pilots in the past have won in Cessna's

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Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

IR(R)/IMC - if you're going down the commercial route, more exposure to instrument flying and IFR procedures will definitely benefit you more.

You will need to do a proper A-UPRT anyway before your first type rating, regardless of whether you've had some aerobatics experience or not.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

I’m currently hour building on the journey towards my CPL, and now have the option to either start my IMC rating now and get some more experience doing that, or I could get my aerobatics rating in a C152, as I’ve got some extra cash in my budget each month.

Is it a bad idea to do my aerobatics in a C152? Will it become underwhelming after the first few times? Or should I just put it towards my IMC rating and get that done quicker?

For context I am in the UK, so the IMC rating is 15 hours, which I will then convert to a full IR later down the line. And the Aerobatics rating is 5 hours.

I’m just wondering if aerobatics in a C152 is always thrilling or if it loses its novelty after you’ve done it solo a few times

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