favorite libertarian pics?
Posted by AdmirableBrick4973@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 67 comments
Posted by AdmirableBrick4973@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 67 comments
Putrid-Ambassador785@reddit
This one's pretty solid - the "pro-choice on everything" banner really captures what libertarianism is about in the most simple way. I like how it was taken at what looks like Washington DC too, makes the message even more powerful against that backdrop.
shabamsauce@reddit
I find it particularly amusing as I support this whole heartedly except with abortion.
PhilRubdiez@reddit
It’s a divisive issue. There’s never going to be a real solution until we find out that God exists (or not).
shabamsauce@reddit
I mean I think that there is a real non-aggression principle dilemma with that issue.
I am an atheist and I am pro-life.
Dr_Plantboss@reddit
The argument I've seen in regard to this kind of outlook is: "If a fetus isn't a person, it has no right to my body. If it is a person, it also has no right to my body because there is no other context in which we are required to put ourselves at risk of physical harm to preserve another person's safety or life."
My counterpoint to this is that conceiving a child is, in most circumstances, a choice that a person makes. You did sexual acts.
I remain pro-choice on a legislative level while being pro-life on a personal level because of those niche situations where it may be better to terminate a pregnancy than see it to term.
Suspicious_Bear42@reddit
I've put it differently to people, but that's my exact stance. I've explained that I'm 'pro-responsibility'. In cases of rape/incest, mother's life, those various niche cases, you should absolutely should have the option to terminate.
If you were just irresponsible, or I suppose unlucky if you used protection but it didn't work, no. Carry to term, and go from there. If you can't afford to raise a child, adoption is always an option. Or, maybe be more responsible, and don't take risks that you can't afford. Sex carries risks, from STIs to pregnancy, to myriad other issues. It's still a great thing, but it should be done responsibly.
Got into an argument with someone on here a while back, basically that no matter how I frame it, it's a sexist view, because the woman has all the responsibility, and that childbirth has risks, etc. Sure, deadbeat dads exist. That's where the responsibility comes in. If you get a woman pregnant, man up.
Apparently those views make me a boomer, despite being well outside of that generation...
Always1behind@reddit
It’s easy to say man up, but in reality our laws don’t compel men to pay. Child support does not kick in until birth, prenatal care, delivery all get billed to the woman as the patient. Men are not even required to add a pregnancy to their health insurance. If women are forced to carry to term, with the assumption that adoption is a solution, why aren’t men forced to work to pay a share of the costs?
BlueBiscuit85@reddit
I could get behind the adoption argument if there were no unadopted kids in this country. The amount of kids that age out of the system is unacceptable. I get that baby's are more adoptable, but even those don't always get adopted. If there is a deformity or obvious mental or genetic issue, there is almost no chance it's getting adopted.
And honestly a kid born into poverty and a terrible home life has the deck stacked against them. If a mother who already has more kids than they can handle wants to fix a mistake and not have more, then I'm all for it. It increases the chance for the others to break the cycle.
shabamsauce@reddit
Holy shit you’re older than a boomer?
QuickNature@reddit
I could not agree more, and I have said this before, and it usually breaks people's brains. The pro-choice stance includes the pro-life stance, but the opposite is not true.
I really dont think this logic is hard to grasp across most things. I want people to have the choice to do what they want within reason.
shabamsauce@reddit
And I do too. However, I think you and I may fundamentally disagree about what “within reason” means.
SamAreAye@reddit
I'm pro life on a personal level while pro choice on a legislative level, and it all boils down to how it would be enforced. The only way is to interject the government into our doctor appointments, and the government doesn't belong there.
DemotivationalSpeak@reddit
Do you support a certain level of regulation on which medical procedures are legal/illegal?
SamAreAye@reddit
What happens between you and your doctor is between you and your doctor.
bonus_situation426@reddit
There is also a NAP dilemma with having to carry a baby to term that is the product of assault however.
pervertoftime@reddit
Hear, hear!
jessetechie@reddit
Agreed. Can’t really call it pro-choice if the fetus doesn’t get a say.
shitchopants@reddit
Looks like, that’s the Washington Monument guy.
CrowBot99@reddit
Yeah. Positive, fundamental messages like this we should make more common.
BananaRex4000@reddit
striXe_@reddit
This is why lolberts will always be gay as fuck.
Lord0Trade@reddit
Unlucky-Flatworm-568@reddit
I'm not American and I don't know a lot about the libertarian party, are they socially progressive?
dlham11@reddit
Libertarians are “do whatever the fuck you want as long as you aren’t forcing it on anyone else”.
Even if they don’t like it or agree with it, if you aren’t hurting anyone, they don’t give a shit. Generally speaking, at least.
cft1848@reddit
I was a Libertarian circa 2016 and voted for Gary Johnson. I’ve moved more left as the Republican Party have moved closer to authoritarianism and warmongering.
Basically, Libertarianism boils down to letting people live their lives within the constitutional framework, and being more isolationist.
Unlucky-Flatworm-568@reddit
I just wanted to make sure. The German libertarian party has thrown their lot in with the far right extremists which they perceive as pro-capitalist when in reality they're super protectionist and aim to regulate industrial markets, art and culture, sexuality and anti-statist individuals. I'm honestly glad to hear the American libertarian party is staying true to it's values.
cft1848@reddit
Our Libertarian party swings left or right depending on who sticks closer to the Constitution. I still more or less align with Libertarians because they generally stay close to baseline, despite wild swings to the left or right. I’d say socially I’m nearly 100% Libertarian, but there are too many issues with our current financial system to implement a purely Libertarian system.
dlham11@reddit
Couldn’t agree more.
zylvor@reddit
“Reduce taxes, government programs, and social regulations.”
bill_bull@reddit
Not in the modern sense. We are largely opposed to welfare subsidies, both corporate and private. But we are for your body your choice, your property your choice in a very broad way.
OffWalrusCargo@reddit
And even that gets grey at times, if welfare was universal and the government didn't get to pick and choose who they pay out to. Only thing they control is how much is sent out evenly and equally. Libertarians would be able to stomach it more because there is no picking winners and losers but the government and while it might increase some taxes it won't get wasted or lost in bureaucrats denying welfare but still saying applications are high and we need more money that then gets waisted.
Unlucky-Flatworm-568@reddit
So the old "socially progressive fiscally conservative" thing, I mean it doesn't get better than that.
AdmirableBrick4973@reddit (OP)
a lot of us are i prefer the title socially libertarian basically do what you want if you aren't harming people who didn't consent to it
gregoriancuriosity@reddit
I always joke/serious that NAP makes me more pro-noise ordinance than pro-drug law. Your fireworks impede on my ability to enjoy my property.
OffWalrusCargo@reddit
Ehhh, the biggest issue is fireworks that are above the tree/ building live so sound travels farther. The type that stay close to ground gets band for being dangerous to people forcing everyone to buy air burst which piss off more people.
Keyhunter2009@reddit
It's not far off. It sums up to as long as you don't violate anyone else's rights, then you're fine.
Funny_Username_12345@reddit
dlham11@reddit
Unregistered machine guns**
FTFY
DVHeld@reddit
Pro-choice on taxation and jurisdiction too?
artmanstan@reddit
The basic premise for being a libertarian is not pro-choice for everything, but choice to do what you want as long as you don't violate others' liberties. People often love the freedom side of things but not the responsibility aspects.
artmanstan@reddit
The basic premise of a libert is not pro-choice on everything. It's choosing to do what you want to do as long as you don't violate others' liberties. It's funny how people like the freedom side of everything, but they don't like the responsibility side!!
Deepvaleredoubt@reddit
I am curious if the common Libertarian stance is pro-choice on abortion? I was always of the understanding that Libertarians used the caveat that people should be left alone unless they are harming others.
So the arguments against abortion for the reason of “do not harm the child growing in the womb” seem to be to call this picture into question.
AdmirableBrick4973@reddit (OP)
There's a lot of good arguments on both sides personally me im pro choice but I respect a libertarian who isn't
TheRealDarkPatriot@reddit
But 43% of us are abortion abolitionists it’s a violation of the non-aggression principle to kill your progeny
Zarfa@reddit
The one "flaw" of Libertarianism is that because we base so much around the NAP, Abortion becomes an "unsolveable" issue depending on your interpretation of "life".
If fetus = life then they have the right to non-aggression, therefore pro-life.
If birth = life then until birth only the mother has the right to non-aggression. If the baby is considered aggressive (not literally, as in detrimental to the mother's life in any capacity) then pro-choice.
Democrats believe in Women's right to choice, so they are always in favor of the mother over the fetus, thereby always pro-choice.
Republicans are generally "morally guided" (i.e. Religious) and therefore usually consider the fetus to contain a soul and therefore be alive, thereby pro-life.
My personal opinion is that Libertarianism should focus on the government's ability for overreach, not the moral dilemma (for all other topics we say "your moral issues don't get to affect my choices").
Voluntary abortion by the Mother seems the most appropriate. If the government can enforce mandatory abortions, you get eugenics. If the government can enforce a ban on abortions, you get a black market and a societal net negative due to the quality of life generally becoming poor for the mother and child. The more conspiracy theory of banned abortions is also potential eugenics (ie. forced insemination, but that's pretty far-out).
godzillaaa@reddit
This is so well said.
The only consideration I want to add is the less black and white stance on abortion where the age of the fetus is concerned.
Yes the NAP is a core principle that generally gives great guidance on how and when the government should interfere, but it fails when it comes to an issue where two “lives” are tied together.
Regardless of the stance of who determines when a fetus becomes a person, letting the government dictate how medicine is practiced is fundamentally against a libertarian’s values. Similarly, every person should have the right to physician-assisted-suicide and the government should have no say in whether or not my doctor and myself come to these decisions.
The same should be said for any pregnant woman when they are the autonomous being, not a fetus dependent on their life. Furthermore, the only entity that should be concerned with anyone’s medical care should be the one’s who employed that practitioner, not the government.
As libertarians I feel we all should agree that the government has no business dictating personal medical choices; leave it to the professionals that could actually solve a 9th grade chemistry equation
Zarfa@reddit
I completely agree. I am not educated enough to know at what stage a fetus is "beyond reasonable" for abortion, so I don't want to make a statement regarding that. As you say: leave it to the professionals.
Whenever I see "Libertarians" cheering for more government overreach, I cringe a bit. I understand that seeing your personal moral beliefs supported is great, but I think that defeats the 'beauty' of Libertarianism.
For example: I'm TeeTotal, aka no alcohol, no drugs. Yet I fully support decriminalizing personal drug use for consenting adults. My personal moral reprehension of alcohol and drugs SHOULD NOT dictate a desire for government overreach.
Recently, there's been talk about the UK. banning smoking for individuals born after 2008. While morally I should support this, I think it's yet another example of the UK. government acting as a nanny-state.
strawhatguy@reddit
Yeah, still, it’s a nice dig at the typical pro-choice crowd, who’s only pro choice in the most limited of ways.
TheRealDarkPatriot@reddit
Absolutely understandable I do have Republican friends that are still not pro marijuana and it’s absolutely mind-boggling and I myself of not even a habitual part taker but the audacity for somebody to tell me what I can and can’t put into my body is absolutely ridiculous. I can’t imagine having the wherewithal to try to tell another grown adult what kind of drugs they can or can’t take as long as they don’t hurt anybody else while using them
UGA913@reddit
anon210202@reddit
Ridiculous because look who's spending more money
this_is_terrible_66@reddit
Certainly not becusse of Dr.No! Try to look past party politcs and at the actual people pictured
MikeTheMaster102@reddit
remember that human rights are still relevant to the libertarian party, pro life is the way
laktes@reddit
Yeah except killing your unborn baby, that’s Not really a choice problem. More a: are we willing to protect the weak thing
BisonCloth@reddit
Slavery?
hotdog_terminator@reddit
Goes against the very foundation of libertarianism
BisonCloth@reddit
Doesn't sound like its pro choice for evrything then
DubiousAdviceGiver@reddit
Slavery is inherently anti-choice.
BisonCloth@reddit
You telling me can't have them then?
DubiousAdviceGiver@reddit
I’m not sure if you’re being deliberately obtuse, but obviously your rights end the moment they impede upon someone else’s.
BisonCloth@reddit
Not really pro choice on everything then
not_a_expert69@reddit
I have the grunt style don’t tread on me 2.0 shirt and I think it’s kinda badass looking
justreadthecomment@reddit
Pro-choice on everything. Pro-Republican always.
88nomolos@reddit
The issue is the words "pro-choice" in American politics is about abortion, and Libertarians disagree on if abortion is child murder or not.
jimmietwotanks26@reddit
Here’s mine
BryceDaBaker@reddit
DubiousAdviceGiver@reddit
Good shit 👍