what part (if any) did your country play in WW1/2? how are they perceived?
Posted by SOHONEYSAME@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 149 comments
Posted by SOHONEYSAME@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 149 comments
Basenabe2021@reddit
Winner no 1 was Switzerland. And they continue winning in all wars. Currently billions fleeing from the gulf region to Switzerland. Maybe also a few very rich humans....
alkorisno@reddit
Direct democracy at work
fk_censors@reddit
Capitalism at work. Switzerland is one of the most free economies (least socialist) in Europe.
alkorisno@reddit
Capitalism starts wars everywhere except if your state is contoled directly by people. Switzerland is most socialist europan country, by far, if for nothing else then direct democracy
fk_censors@reddit
Every sentence contains a blatant falsehood.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
Switzerland is a bloody banking cartel. It has its hands in blood from dealing with both sides of warring parties. But to think Switzerland does well because of capitalism is a laughable notion.
fk_censors@reddit
Every country does well from capitalism, whether it's Switzerland, UAE. Singapore etc.
As for Switzerland being a bloody cartel, its people didn't commit actual bloodshed during WW2. Whatever you think of bankers, they don't kill people like those primitive assholes from other countries.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
Says every country does well from capitalism. Lists 3 first world nations (1 city state).
Conveniently forgets 3/4 of the countries in the world - the 3rd world - and how capitalism has "benefited" them.
Tell me, what success have the countries in Africa, south Asia, south East Asia, Latin America seem? Just like in the first world where you have a rich person, at the expense of the poor, you have rich countries at the expense of the poor.
Do some reading, little man. You need it.
fk_censors@reddit
Compare any two similar societies, and tell me which one does better, the more capitalist one or the more socialist one. South vs North Korea, West vs East Germany, Colombia vs Venezuela, Singapore vs Malaysia, Switzerland vs Germany or France, Norway vs Sweden, China with freer markets vs China when it was socialist, same for Vietnam, Dominican Republic or Cuba, etc. in each instance, the more capitalist society does better for most people (except a few psychopaths at the top). There's no need to be condescending.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
That is such a surface level, lazy way of thinking. You're conveniently ignorant all added context. It isn't apples vs apples. S. Korea vs N. Korea. Tell me, which one is under sanctions and isolated from the international community? Which one was carpet bombed and had like 20% of its population killed? Which one also receives special treatment for being a loyal ally of the US? In each example you listed, there are countless questions like this you need to answer. So much added context for that you listed. But of course you don't because it involves further critical thinking. Also, look at your own country. Has capitalism really made Romania a beacon of prosperity? You've been capitalist for over 30 years and what has that achieved? Being the poorest member of the EU? What a great achievement.
fk_censors@reddit
Yes, Romania's standard of living is many, many, many times better under half assed capitalism that it was under full blown socialism.
I also compared countries like Switzerland and Germany or France. Culturally similar countries where the differentiator is likely the economic system. Of course I can't account for all the variables, but it's the best I could do using logic and applying the scientific method to something that cannot be measured in a lab...
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
Before claiming that, do you want to share how old you are? Because unless you're in your 50s and older, you really wouldn't know. Regardless, after 30 years, most often the standard of living would increase. However, i don't see much of that happening in Romania much in the last 30 years.
You're still comparing first world countries that developed off the back of the third world. Those countries you listed have developed off the cost of your own citizens! Again, where there are rich countries, there are more poorer countries. Go and try live in Bangladesh, Nigeria, or Paraguay and tell me again how great capitalism is.
fk_censors@reddit
I compared Colombia and Venezuela as well. Singapore and Malaysia. Thailand and Laos. If you don't see improvement in the quality of life in Romania compared to 30 years ago, I think you are avoiding reality.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
You're not very bright, are you. You need to improve your reading comprehension, as well as your critical thinking I've mentioned to you previously, these comparisons you're posting are devoid of context. It is very surface level. What you're doing is showing you have no deeper historical, geopolitical understanding of each nation you're listing. It's easy to say Colombia does better than Venezuela when one was sanctioned for 20+ years and the other is a loyal client state of the US (yet still part of the third world). Have you even read any books on the topic we're discussing? I highly doubt it. I've already mentioned to you, how in most cases, quality of life increases over time regardless of systems. However, in 30 years of capitalist Romania, its been so bad and slow, that capitalism has in effect deliberately kept your country back as your people are used for cheap labour. And the most pathetic thing is you're defending that. A real serf mentality.
fk_censors@reddit
You're quite quick to judge a total stranger, just because you have no counter argument (a more socialist society with with a better outcomes than a more capitalist one, with similar cultures).
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
I countered all your claims. You're the one bringing up lazy arguments and can't even expand on any of your points or mine. You can't even answer me your age. Your reading comprehension is poor. No critical thinking skills are shown. It doesn't matter if you're a total stranger or someone i know, if you give such a poor argument, I'm going to call you out on it. Do yourself a favour and actually read some books on the topics you want to argue about. I know for a fact you've done no reading on this.
fk_censors@reddit
You never countered the simple comparison: any more socialist country that did better than a less socialist one with very similar people. What better scientific study do we have than West Germany vs East Germany, South Korea vs North Korea, etc? Do you have a single example? It can be in any continent.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
You want a comparison, you simple minded serf? The USSR vs USA in the space race, reaching superpower dominance in under 50 years, despite going through WW1, WW2, and civil war, and significantly increasing the standard of living of the average soviet citizen. Also remarkable since Russia before 1917 never had its own industrial revolution, had colonial territories in the third world, nor practices in the slave trade. Another comparison? China and the USA. Similarly to Ussr, record growth into superpower status, despite coming from a very poor, feudal state like situation. Never practiced the type of imperialism as the US did. Got over 800 million of its citizens out of extreme poverty. Compare China and India if you want as well. 2 similar sized countries, similar number of population. One went capitalist route, one went centrally planned economy. Which one boomed and which one still had huge poverty? Sit tf down. You're not ready for this conversation. Read a freaking book already.
fk_censors@reddit
Again, none of these societies are comparable, there are way too many variables at play. I was asking for two SIMIlLAR societies with similar people and cultures and levels of development, where two systems were applied. Even Norway vs Sweden works (Norway is a little less socialist, and a little more prosperous), Switzerland vs Germany or France (same thing), Netherlands vs Belgium, Singapore vs Malaysia, and so on... Do you have any two very similar societies with different economic systems?
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
I understand, when your argument is dismantled, it doesn't count because there's "too many variables". Weird that this only applies to me, but not to you your point. All it takes is for societies to be similar, and no other variable, like outside, macro forces.
You're not serious. This is an absolute joke. Also how is Norway "a little less socialist" than Sweden? According to who? What metrics? Both utilise very similar systems. Singapore and Malaysia are both capitalist. One is a city state and other isn't. You're a joke. Out of your depth.
fk_censors@reddit
According to the index of economic freedom, issued every year by the heritage Foundation. It's flawed, but it's the best metric we have.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
Your source is the HERITAGE FOUNDATION?! Oh my God, no fucking wonder. You need serious help if that is what you source.
fk_censors@reddit
I'm not sure who else measures the "amount of economic freedom" (I. E., capitalism, or not socialism) in a society. Do you have a better source for that?
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
Why is that metric so important to you? Honestly, to me it is a bullshit metric to even consider. Economic freedom =/= better standards of living. It just highlights how easy it is for capitalists to move their capital. How about you read historical books on how and why countries are as they are. You'll learn much more than reading anything from the fucking heritage foundation.
fk_censors@reddit
I was looking for a metric that measures how "capitalist" or "socialist" a society is. Otherwise the whole discussion is meaningless.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
You need to research different sources. Read actual books and not think tanks funded by right wing oligarchs. What you're reading is cherry picked propaganda. Open your eyes dude.
fk_censors@reddit
I understand it's biased, I'm not treating it like the Gospel. But do you have another source that measures how "socialist" an economy is? I haven't found a better metric, whether in books or other think tanks or recent academic studies.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
I read books on the matter. I don't even see what the point is of seeing "how socialist" an economy is. I look at the cause of the state of parts of the world are in. And from my reading, that is basically due to capitalism. I can recommend you books on this if you ask for it. In regards to think tanks, majority are funded by right wingers, all pushing an agenda.
fk_censors@reddit
Everyone pushes an agenda - think tanks, media conglomerates, documentary makers, etc. But the problem starts from definitions. Words like capitalism, socialism, fascism are very charged and often mean close to nothing at all. That's why I was hoping to define them and to get a sense of which societies are more capitalist vs less capitalist (I. E., more socialist). Like we know intrinsically that West Germany was more capitalist than East Germany, or South Korea vs North Korea, or China now vs China before Deng Xiaoping, but like you said, there could have been other variables at play. If we have the data for most countries, we can really compare the systems side by side a little better, to diminish the roles of other variables. That's why I was so interested in this metric. Based on the (imperfect, I admit) info I have now, capitalism leads to better outcomes than socialism for the same type of people in a similar society. Better economies, better environment (less pollution), better public health outcomes, etc. Of course it's important to define capitalism as the protection of private property, and socialism the prohibition of private property. All societies are somewhere in between, but on a sliding scale.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
Except your conclusion is factually wrong. Capitalism DOESN'T lead to cleaner environment, better public health etc. You can argue it leads to better economies, but then we leftists ask "at what cost?" And the cost is human suffering, environmental destruction, poverty, slave wage etc etc. You clearly came to this conclusion from reading propaganda by think tanks funded by right wing oligarchs. Again, read an academic book. Read literature on this. It is mind boggling how you can believe this propaganda and even defend it, while you're literally a victim to it. As said before, a real serf mentality.
fk_censors@reddit
What do you mean? The communist countries (Soviet Union, China) were the biggest polluters ever known to mankind - far worse than the capitalist ones. The average lifespan was also far shorter.
I also lived in multiple countries on multiple continents with varying degrees of economic freedom, with the best lifestyle by far in the most "capitalist" society and the worst in the most "socialist" society - but that's anecdotal evidence and not worth taking too seriously.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
Source this claim. Do it. I need to see an actual study that supports this. Because i know factually that your claim is bullshit and not backed up. But to ahead. Although if you use right wing think tanks as your source, I'll laugh at you.
Knowing how you define countries as "more capitalist" or "more socialist" is laughable, hence your anecdote as which ones are better and worse. Not sure why you brought this up. If that's the case, go live in sub saharan Africa, or India, Bangladesh. These economies are quite "free", very capitalist. Even in your own Romania. The poorest EU member.
You got to learn to be humble. You're not providing any intelligent arguments here. It is sad talking to you.
fk_censors@reddit
AI response: Key disasters included the desiccation of the Aral Sea (turning the world's 4th largest lake into a toxic desert) and the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear meltdown. Other impacts included extreme water pollution, pesticide contamination, and reckless nuclear waste handling.
Historically, Soviet industry was often less efficient, producing roughly 1.5 times more pollution per unit of economic output than the U.S. toward the end of the Cold War.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
That is not an academic study or claim. This is lazy research by asking AI. You think you can get away with this at a university with a professor?! š Also where's the actual comparison? What Austin did you ask it? Why not even list the atrocities of environmental degredation by capitalist countries? You listed a handful of regional disasters, yet you ignore global issues like global warming, over consumption, plastic waste etc shows not only your ignorance but the bad faith you're bringing into this. Again, highlighting to me the lack of intellect you hold.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
More examples? Cuba and Haiti. Which one is being strangled under an illegal embargo and which one isn't? Vietnam and Cambodia. Which one was invaded and which one had a brutal government which was supported by the US? Who has a better standard of living? Yugoslavia of the 70s to Yugoslavia of today. While you'll get a mixed reception, many people who grew up in Yugoslavia mention how much better it was in those times (anecdotal). Why don't you tell me how old you are? I would be really surprised if you're over 25. You strike me as a very naive, ignorant child.
fk_censors@reddit
My age would simply attract more ad hominem attacks from you, instead of a substantive example. I'm not sure why you are so belligerent, I assume in a face to face discussion you'd be more cordial.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
Your age is important because your argument is very child like. Honestly there is no intellectual substance to what you're bringing to the table. At least i can understand if you said you are a teenager, then i'd think you're just naive and you'll need to learn more. But if you're a full grown adult and you're telling me this, then i just can't help but laugh at how ridiculous you are. I'm sorry, but stupidity triggers me. Especially when you're confident in your ignorance.
fk_censors@reddit
May I ask what your studies are in, or what your professional expertise is in? I'm trained in economics.
BubblyDiscipline5375@reddit
I never asked you what you're trained in. I asked you for your age. I'm not going to tell you my studies until you tell me your age. Besides, you're a very poor and a pathetic economist, especially if you're using the heritage foundation.
NoBetterIdeaToday@reddit
No, they just enabled said bloodshed and then enjoyed the results of the bloodshed.
fk_censors@reddit
So they're not nearly as bad as the idiots who did the actual bloodshed.
Critical-Positive858@reddit
is this bait
jankeyass@reddit
Oof found the Croat
Critical-Positive858@reddit
sybau my grandpa fought for the allies
jankeyass@reddit
Exception not a rule for Croatia
Critical-Positive858@reddit
lol very true, but I regret I am a westoid. and I prefer serbia for whatever that's worth. no ustaŔe here aha..
jankeyass@reddit
Yeah fair enough
Most Croats I know abroad are like ultra nationalist ustaŔe and give everyone a bad name. But I do know some, mostly from Bosnia, who are very down to earth.
That being said most Serbs i know abroad are ultra nationalist Äetniks, especially the Bosnian Serbs, and the most down to earth ones are fromerly from Belgrade. The further from Belgrade the more nationalists
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
We were on a winning side in WWI, but Serbia, suffered the highest losses, proportionately to its population, losing approximately one quarter of its total population.
The Battle of Cer was the first major Allied victory of WWI, when Serbian army defeated Austria-Hungarian army. And we were exhausted from Balkan wars also.
CakiGM@reddit
Don't forget the Toplica uprising
LenaLena93@reddit
Losing a quarter of the population and being two decades away from being genocided in WWII.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Don't be too generous with the word genocide.
Time-Heron-2361@reddit
Yellow house and organ re-selling
putporkonyafork@reddit
Ironic coming from an Albanian
Ujemegaz@reddit
Indeed š¤£
LenaLena93@reddit
I donāt understand.
jhonnytheyank@reddit
R/historymemes up in arms about rn wether Serbia started ww1 or AH.Ā Ā
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
One could say Serbia did, if they didnāt have any basic understanding of history, and circumstances.
Even Austria has a more balanced stance.
alkorisno@reddit
All the more reason to be proud. We would lose more in the long run if we didnt stand up to those bastards
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
I am proud, but the last century had no chill, from wars against the Ottomans to everything we lost as a consequence of world wars.
It was one generation trauma after another.
elektricniorgazam@reddit
My great grandfather died fighting in The Battle of Cer when my grandpa was a baby. That always filled me with equal sadness and pride.
Poglavnik_Majmuna01@reddit
We were a disproportionately represented cannon fodder in ww1 that luckily managed to escape partitioning post war. Our most important role in the war was the Isonzo front where Svetozar Boroevic proved to be one of the finest generals of the war.
In ww2 part of Croatia played the role of a dicksucking puppet state designed to control the region, the others were a key part of the most successful resistance movement of the war.
CataphractBunny@reddit
In WW2 Croatia also played the role of starting an armed rebellion against the fascists almost immediately after it was occupied.
jarbuke@reddit
Yeah, where did the armed rebellion break out?
CataphractBunny@reddit
Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisak_People%27s_Liberation_Partisan_Detachment
Hot_Conversat1on_@reddit
So "rebellion" started on the same day Germany attacked Soviet Union. Seems like Soviets were calling on vassals to join the war.
CataphractBunny@reddit
You can drop the quotation marks. Rebellion was organized by Croatian communists, obviously. Bit more than two months after the traitorous puppet state was established.
Anything else you need clarified?
Hot_Conversat1on_@reddit
Again "rebellion" was suspicously organized on the same day operation Barbarossa started? On the same day Radio Moscow called European communists to join a war? Consequently few local communists from Sisak area decided to meet up in forest to discuss what are their options regarding the radio message. So it just really seems like masters were calling their puppets to join their fight.
CataphractBunny@reddit
The rebellion was organized before that, and launching it on that day was common sense.
Hot_Conversat1on_@reddit
Nothing was organized before because the POINT of that meeting was to organize fighting squad following the radio message that came from Moscow on the same day. Because of those puppets and traitors we got to live in a shithole called yugoslavia, leaving us light years behind of the western Europe. Furthermore because of the centralized nature of country "Zagreb radi, Beograd se gradi" and of military that was stationed in the capital and full of high ranking serbs, we(croats) got to experiance fighting the communists and chetniks once again.
CataphractBunny@reddit
You just confirmed tha things were organized without even realizing it.
Hot_Conversat1on_@reddit
I dont know what you have read, but try again and if you still wont understand then I will help you.
CataphractBunny@reddit
What a pathethic little whine of a reply.
Hot_Conversat1on_@reddit
Okay so you do need help. Communist networks existed but they werent prepared to start armed conflict, thats why they needed to have an meeting following message from Moscow. So no, what you said was a lie and they waited for orders from Soviets. NDH existed for more than 2 months and in that time communists didnt make one single move.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Says the guy using insults this entire time, and melts down immediately when given a taste of his own medicine. Pathetic and cowardly behavior.
Hot_Conversat1on_@reddit
You are actually deranged and now trying to act like a victim.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Attempts at insulting me is all you have.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Oh, you definitely do.
alkorisno@reddit
There ware a lot of good people there, communists fighting back, but the government was horrible
CataphractBunny@reddit
It's was a nazi puppet government that the Italians and Germans installed to do their bidding, and kept in power with their military presence.
Igorius_Basterd@reddit
Donāt forget jasenovac and the attempted genocide. Even the nazis were shocked about croatian behaviour.
Corleone0@reddit
The larger part š¤£š¤£š¤£ What a cope
Time-Heron-2361@reddit
I wouldnt say it was luck that helped skip partitioning post war. It was more of an idea from Serbia to unite all souther slavs
BogdanD@reddit
Romania fought against Russia from ā40-44 and against Germany from ā44-45. It played a significant role, supplying 80% of the oil needed for Germanyās war effort and being the only European Axis country to capture a major city (Odessa).
My parents werenāt even taught about the war against Russia in school- they were taught that Romaniaās involvement lasted from ā44-45. They were taught that Russians liberated us from the Germans. My great-grandparents knew otherwise. The Russians raped, murdered and stole whatever they could.
My great-grandfathers were forced to fight for their country and got nothing for it. One was captured at Stalingrad and returned home years after the war ended - a walking skeleton. He was tortured by the Communists for refusing to give up his land, and only signed the forms when his children found him at the police station tied to a chair and pistol whipped. Another one fought throughout the whole war - against Russians and Germans both - and came home to the same situation. He only gave up his land when the government prevented his children from going to school. All members of my family erased all evidence of their military service in Russia to avoid political problems under Communism.
BWC_Python@reddit
germans brpught chocolate, russians brought rape
BogdanD@reddit
Verbatim, what my grandparents told me.
Self-Bitter@reddit
Chocolate from the nazis ...
Self-Bitter@reddit
Brought chocolate... and gas
Melodic_Interview210@reddit
Italy sort of was too due to the overthrow of Mussolini. Also Macedonia was part of Serbia and Yugoslavia in both WW.
delwans@reddit
As a German IĀ“m ready to start a war again in order to lose it (again) /s
Young_Owl99@reddit
WW1 is seen as final nail in Ottoman Empire's coffin.
There is an age old belief that we lost because Germans surrendered even though we surrendered earlier. In aftermath of WW1 we reborn as a republic which is the only good part.
WW2 has much less effect on Turkey compared to rest of Europe as we stayed neutral. Staying neutral seen the best idea for majority of people but some ultra nationalists believe that we could use the war for our benefit by siding with Germany.
We have a weird kink with Germany when I think about it...
pattislikiymaliborek@reddit
I mean if we are talking about kinks i think the biggest kink that the Ottomans ever had was with the French.
SonrieAlaVida@reddit
If we're being legit the biggest kink the ottomans ever had was with young twinks
pattislikiymaliborek@reddit
we dont talk about that
Ok-Classroom-8853@reddit
Macedonia should be green
Aggravating_Key2725@reddit
Only to the extent that it was territoriality part of Serbia and Yugoslavia respectively at the time. Otherwise, the population overwhelmingly supported and fought on the Bulgarian side, especially in WWI. When VMRO had its own division in the Bulgarian army (the 11th Macedonian), it's hard to say Macedonia was a victor in WWI.Ā
SOHONEYSAME@reddit (OP)
it is.
Burlotier@reddit
Could he be colour blind ? /uj
coleto22@reddit
Serbia didn't win much from both wars.
alkorisno@reddit
No, but it was on the correct side, unlike Bulgaria
fk_censors@reddit
There was no correct side. And many smaller nations just joined one side or the other to get help killing their neighbors in true Borat fashion, they didn't care one way about the fascism vs communism fight, or the Western powers' squabbles over colonies.
Miloslolz@reddit
There absolutely was a good side in WW2.
fk_censors@reddit
Yes, Switzerland and some Latin American countries were the good guys. Because they didn't get involved in the senseless bloodshed.
Miloslolz@reddit
Nah the good guys were the heroes that stopped fascism and genocide.
fk_censors@reddit
By committing genocide themselves?
BogdanD@reddit
It really depends on your perspective. Russia was the bad side for a lot of east European nations. Romania included.
No_Bodybuilder_7055@reddit
are we really comparing communism and fucking nazism?
BogdanD@reddit
Again, it depends on your perspective, right? The Germans didnāt treat Romanians like garbage the way the Russians did.
No_Bodybuilder_7055@reddit
put nations to the side mate we are talking here about basic human decency, one of them intentionally cleansed 6million people from their land
BogdanD@reddit
If a numbers game is what matters to you, the Communists killed many more from their own lands, not to mention those of others.
alkorisno@reddit
No correct side when fighting nazis?
fk_censors@reddit
No, the fascists and the communists and the colonialists were fighting mostly for influence and power or colonies.
neobicnicovek@reddit
The right side is the one that allows your country to achieve certain goals. Moral satisfaction is not a great consolation. After all we have slightly smaller territory than in 1914 ( ā 77,000 kmĀ² ) and a high level of autonomy in Bosnia ( ā 24,600 kmĀ² ). S
alkorisno@reddit
If your goals is to wipe out people based on their nationality then I guess nazis are the right side for you. Comarission of a psychophat
neobicnicovek@reddit
I didn't say that, I just said that in the case of my country, being on the "right side" has no value for us.
coleto22@reddit
I don't dispute that.
Besrax@reddit
Our participation is more complicated than that, but either way, war sucks even for the "winners", and Serbia is unfortunately an example of that.Ā I hope we never have any wars in our region again.
DartVejder@reddit
You can clearly see outlines of Republika Srpska on the map of the first Yugoslav Partisan uprisings and liberated territory in summer of '41, and this, along with Uzice Republic in Serbia, was the first liberated territory in Europe.
Fantastic-Reading-78@reddit
"As a result, Emanuel SchƤfer, commander of the Security Police and Gestapo in Serbia, famously cabled Berlin after last Jews were killed in May 1942: Serbien ist judenfrei.^([23]) Similarly, Harald Turner of the SS stated in 1942 that: Serbia is the only country in which the Jewish question and the Gypsy question has been solved." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Serbia
"This territory had two successive Serbian puppet governments under the control of the German military authorities. The first, short-lived, puppet government was known as the Commissioner Government and was led by Milan AÄimoviÄ. The second puppet government was known as the Government of National Salvation and was led by Milan NediÄ."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_occupation_of_Serbia
The Chetniks were a Serbian nationalist guerrilla force during World War II, led by Draža MihailoviÄ, that initially aimed to resist Axis occupation in Yugoslavia but became known for their collaboration with Axis powers and committing war crimes against non-Serb populations. Their activities included ethnic cleansing and massacres, particularly against Muslims and Croats, resulting in significant civilian deaths.
Etsikaietsi@reddit
I never got this argument, Germans and Croats were very much involved in this. The puppet goverment of Nazi occupied Serbia put Serbs, Jews and Roma in camps and this is somehow the same as NDH? Quite a stretch.
And the Äetniks were very much segmented so again not comparable to the ustaÅ”a. And as far as the crimes against humanity goes, not even close.
One country had two anti-fascist movements and a very vocal uprising as well as some sort of initial resistance against the Germans. The other country threw flowers at them. Not even remotely the same.
Youāre downplaying this very badly and itās cringe.
Fantastic-Reading-78@reddit
So my dick is bigger than yours game... Bro its not how it works, both sides were wrong, look what Chetniks done to Bosniaks. If he wrote comment about NDH same like he wrote about Serbia in WW2 I would post him comments about NDH. So what you are trying now is whitewash crimes of one group with crimes of another group. That is not how it works. Also if we talk about crimes I am not sure witch are worse Cetniks or Ustashe. Its same shit medal with two sides.
Srebrenica enters the chat (tho it was war from 90) but there were same happening in East Bosnia in WW2 it was not first time.
Etsikaietsi@reddit
I didnāt mean to strike a nerve but I guess Iām sorry your grandad was run over in Blajburg 80 years ago.
Youāre trying to downplay and make both sides look the same when it was not. Nothing the Äetniks did in WW2 compared to the sistematic cleansing done by the ustaÅ”a and the regular Croatian army. And I canāt stress this enough - it was not even close. It is very much clear which one is worse and it can all be resolved with something that rhimes with bonectration tramps for mildren. One had them, the others did not. Thereās a clear winner here.
Srebrenica was 50 years after the war ended but even if you count that, even if you compare the killing of a few thousand millitary aged men with killing women, children and the elderly with hammers, showels, knives, gass, turning them into soap and letting their rotting corpses flow down the Sava river then youād have to have your head checked.
Srebrenica is a slow weekend in the NDH.
Those crimes are not the same. A crime is a crime but we have to be real here. Take the L and move on.
Or am I going to see a Dobrica ÄosiÄ quote coming down the street?
Fantastic-Reading-78@reddit
Denying genocide in Srebrenica. Nice move chetniks
But lets get back to WW2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ_MpL0EqmA
Seval Tabakovic in 1942 his wife and children 2 and 3 where butchered and throw in Drina river in Visegrad together with him, he survive, and again killed by Chetniks in 92. Do you want more things about Chetniks in ww2?
As I said you are trying to hide genocide and crimes of one group with another crimes and genocide
Chetniks and Ustashe were same it is difficult to tell who is worse so take your lies and agenda somewhere else.
Etsikaietsi@reddit
Ok, pick a number - 8,9,10. Again not even close in scale or in intent. Call me whatever you like but you canāt call me a liar.
Iām really sorry about Seval and his familly but have you heard about Prebilovci? Have you heard about Jasenovac? You comparing the ustaÅ”e and Äetniks is pure cope.
Youāre junping from era to era trying to prove a point that an absolute brainded ustaÅ”a apologist would make.
Iām sorry we stillexist as a people, I guess youāll just have to live with that and stay mad forever.
Fantastic-Reading-78@reddit
Not that I can't I will call you a liar and I will bring you even fact you bring on Serbian Dobrica Cosic:
"We lie in order to deceive ourselves, to comfort others; we lie out of compassion, we lie out of shame, to encourage, to hide our misery, we lie for the sake of honesty. We lie for freedom. Lying is a form of Serbian patriotism and a confirmation of our innate intelligence. We lie creatively, imaginatively, inventively"
Also it is not just number it is more than 8000 people killed mostly civilians. It was genocide.
I am not sure you are sorry for anybody, when you one victim whitewash with another victim, deny genocide and so on.
I am not jumping I already told you WW2, and hate of Serbians Chetniks spread to 90 sadly even from Ottoman period.
Brother it is not problem in me but in you, you just don't want to see crimes that some of your people committed, and want to justify by other people crimes witch is purely wrong I already describe you but you don't want to read you just spread your agenda.
Chetniks bad, Ustasehe bad period.
Etsikaietsi@reddit
Thereās the quote I predicted 3 posts ago. A brainded quote from a brainded ustaÅ”a lover. A quote as real as the point you make.
I know you donāt read book, and you wonāt be able to read Deove even with gelp and if it was a coloring book, but at least check things before you post them.
And now we see chetnicks in the Middle ages. Chetnicks everywhere ba. 1 million years of djenosajd.
Stay mad bozo.
Fantastic-Reading-78@reddit
Stay genocide denier chetnik.
CataphractBunny@reddit
You're giving them too little credit. Those bastards committed war crimes on Serbs as well.
Fantastic-Reading-78@reddit
I left that to you to write :D
CataphractBunny@reddit
First Yugoslav Partisan uprising was in Sisak, Croatia.
Fantastic-Reading-78@reddit
Also Independent State of Croatia was puppet State of Nazi Germany :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbnFOnBTJYU
Partizans were brave man across all Yugoslavia not just Croatia!
CataphractBunny@reddit
and Fascist Italy, dont' forget them. They even made some Italian dude a king of their puppet state, lol.
What was fully a puppet of Nazi Germany was Serbia.
Fantastic-Reading-78@reddit
Meh I am not sure who was bigger puppet but that was same to me!
Humphrey_The_III@reddit
In world war 1 Albania was already in chaos as the war started due to internal power struggles so technically it was neutral, although some battles involving Italian, Serbian and Astro-Hungarian troops did take place in Albania. It was so chaotic its almost a miracle the country held itself together at the end of the war. Honestly in my experience it is not a topic very often talked about.
In WW2, Albania was under Italian occupation. Not a particularly good occupation as It was also the only place under the axis that the jewish population went up instead of down. Which is something we take a lot of pride in, despite the turbulent present.
Ujemegaz@reddit
We do not cover much ww1 in school. All i remember is that we lost 70k, and that is a big number considerik that tltal population was less than 800k.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Albania did not officially participate in ww1, and in ww2 won.
alkorisno@reddit
Why is Russia not green as well?
Osuruktanteyyare_@reddit
They lost the first one
New_Breadfruit5664@reddit
But they were on the winning side tho
alkorisno@reddit
They did?
Miloslolz@reddit
Yes they existed the war early and had a regime change.
Calivivaldi@reddit
Calivivaldi@reddit
Nikoschalkis1@reddit
Greece was on the "as much losing as a winning side can be" side on ww2.
Average greek town/village sightseeing:
Town church
Town tavern
Town nazi execution memorial statue.
Early-Show2886@reddit
Was Romania in WW1 and WW2?
I dont know much, really...
Fair_Quality_3788@reddit
Bad guys first time, neutral second.
Useful_Trust@reddit
Turkey?
Also I dont think ww1 had good guys and bad guys the same way ww2 had.
Early-Show2886@reddit
I dont know.
JumpApprehensive9949@reddit
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Ok-Classroom-8853@reddit
According to this map, on opposite sides š