Your supplies probably won't be stolen in a disaster
Posted by RichardBonham@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 149 comments
Interesting brief RSS posting with links that proposes that having supplies stockpiled exposes you to less exposure to external risks such as rioters, looters, snipers, shelling because you don't have to leave home so much.
The observation in short duration disasters (flood, tsunami, etc.)is that there is more mutual aid. In prolonged disasters (Siege of Sarajevo as an example) this is less true and there is more hoarding and concealing of one's capabilities and stores from others.
In either scenario, the threats are external and lessening exposure to the external environment is safer.
what_joy@reddit
It depends on the disaster and who I'm potentially doing the sharing with.
Trusted neighbours is one thing.
Strangers are another.
Seeing a stranger desperate for food for themselves and their obviously starving child (it's usually fairly obvious the difference between a hungry child and a 'this child hasn't eaten for at least a day) is another thing.
Telling this hypothetical parent and child you can't spare much but giving them something is both morally good and sensible.
greenglances@reddit
I'm prepping for normal stuff. If an actual society collapse I neither expect to live nor want to. I'd teach what I know and make my last action in life count for something; survivors by nature would be the most selfish of us. 😞 Hopefully not but Idk many adults who endure hunger well let alone to give up eating for a kid. I grew up below poverty; I lived on scraps and will do it again if needed.
Resident_Positive472@reddit
Always keep two, so you can give one of them up if forced to
Motorcyclegrrl@reddit
I recently viewed a video that made a strong argument for small groups, nodes, of 2 to 5 people. If you grow to 6 you split into 2 groups. The idea is that you belong to a loose network of small groups with no leader and no central organization. This makes for flexibility and resilience. You meet up with various small groups or individuals from time to time to exchange info and trade.
The biggest danger is from raiders who kill everyone and take everything. The suggestion was to ban together with other groups to hunt down raiders and destroy them before they pick off groups one by one. Also very small groups without obvious resources are not interesting or appealing to raiders. The video suggested raider groups might last up to 9 months post apocalypse, but will end up being hunted down and destroyed and won't last a full year.
BigJSunshine@reddit
I mean, I follow the “out run a bear” prep theory. I don’t need to out run a bear, I just need to out run someone slower than the bear.
We see it all over the internet: most people are paycheck from total failure. Its a gross thought, but most only need to out last 90% of the population.
Codicus1212@reddit
Do you think they’ll just lay down and die once they’re out of food? Or do you think some of those hungry people will band together and realize there’s lots of farms and farmland in the country, and not enough people to defend it all?
Motorcyclegrrl@reddit
They will be weak and feel unwell from lack of food.
Resident-Welcome3901@reddit
Prepping opsec is LARP fantasy. Communities are much more resilient than individuals. Your focus should be on developing a mutual assistance group that is large enough to Provide a variety of skills and a capability of A sustainable 24/7 watch rotation. Group can be based a neighborhood watch organization, a municipal CERT organization, volunteer fire department or church congregation. Building a prepper community is a constructive approach than planning to bunker up and defend your hoard.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
I mean, in general, this just the main difference between a short-term disaster (guaranteed return to normalcy,) and a true collapse- where aid is not coming.
Both require vastly different mindsets and behavior. Yes there's crossover, but there is a core difference of thinking and actions.
NotEvenNothing@reddit
Why do you say that? (I ask that sincerely.)
Do you just mean that, in a short-term disaster, one could hunker down and live off stored goods until normalcy returns, but in a long-term disaster, those stored goods would run out, forcing one to scavenge?
I think that, by the time our pantry and root cellar were empty, those that were forced to scavenge would be long dead, and everything that could have been scavenged would be long gone with them. Our garden would become really important really fast, rather than a fun pasttime that yields around 20% of our food.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
This is a gross generalization (local disaster vs total infrastructure failure) and I'm going to be very blunt and a bit bleak here, so I apologize. I'm largely limiting my discussion to the situation here in the States. Wall of text, ye be warned. I'm not saying this to come off as extreme- quite the contrary, because prepping for a local & common disaster (Tuesday) is just a completely different beast than complete system failure (Doomsday).
In a short-term disaster, the rule of law still exists. There's fear of punishment, etc. Supplies that you give out can, and would be replenished once normalcy returns. The relative cost of giving out supplies is relatively low. Sure, that might paint you as a target, but you can still replenish and adjust your plans once the stores open again. Looting is likely to be for non-essentials and monetary gain, because people aren't struggling (I speak as a situational comparison- not specifically.) In general, people are not staving or dying of thirst or disease by the thousands during a disaster in the States. Because the rest of the country will send aid, even if it's delayed.
There is still a semblance of normalcy- because there's still a basic "normal" that's been disrupted everywhere else, and it will return to what it was before. Even in some of the most severe disasters in the states, it's nothing compared to a true famine and hardship that other countries have suffered. We're extremely insulated as a society- and that carries over to mindset the population has. I recently had no idea how bad famine actually was until reading historic accounts which are disturbing at best.
Now for the bleak stuff. In a complete infrastructure collapse (1 year+), there's no more rule of law- and it'll take a few days for the general population to realize that. Every item you give out is something you will not get back. Every 2,500 calories you give out, for example, is one day less you can be fed. And now the target on you changes from "possibly dangerous" to "it's you or me."
The fabric and mindset of "normal" will hold for a few days- and then it would utterly break when people realize that help will not come. The water won't turn back on, ever. Big cities? Pretty much uninhabitable alone due to this fact. When people actually are hungry, that is when it tips over to true desperation where people will do anything to survive- even if it's illogical or flies in the face of what they once called morals.
That situation just hasn't happened here in the States.
Yes, the more you've stockpiled, the more you've insulated yourself against external forces. But that largely only works for local disasters unless you've got a 100% underground facility. Because now you have 350 million people who will do anything for a single meal. That's why community is so important, because, to be blunt, you'll simply be overrun by those where logic isn't present anymore. You have to protect, hide, and otherwise avoid or repel forces that will deplete your stores. I'm not saying this to be dramatic; the Siege of Sarajevo and Selko's account is a glimpse into that reality (as well as researching actual famines throughout history.)
In short? Broadly speaking, short-term, localized disasters are not examples of true desperation. Even if you lost everything in a hurricane, you still can, realistically, find a FEMA or homeless shelter where you will get a meal. It's a horrible situation for a population- that's not up for debate. But I would make the argument that, when compared to a total collapse scenario, it's not even close to what true desperation is. And I don't think the majority of people are able to comprehend or even are able to truly think, let alone prepare for that.
When the system collapses, you have to shift your mindset from "how do I hold on till the cavalry arrives" to "who am I keeping alive, and for how long- because it's just us."
A complete infrastructure failure turns survival on a national scale into a math equation that doesn't work for our level of population anymore.
X amount of food + no clean water, divided by Y amount of people = 90%+ dead within a year.
That's why there's so much focus (at times, to an extreme fault,) about defense. Because in a total collapse, there is not enough food to feed even a fraction of the nation. And that's why the looting, and overall preparedness situation is apples to oranges when comparing a localized, temporary disaster to a total collapse.
TLDR: Broadly speaking, one situation causes looting for convenience & comfort with a promise of help on the horizon.
The situation causes the majority of the population to, within weeks, do anything, and everything for survival, no matter the cost.
ADCregg@reddit
I don’t fully disagree— but this feels a little cinematic. I don’t think anyone in my family lived through a full societal collapse, but they did live through the holodomir and various famines. And while crime was higher— people weren’t slaughtering each other in the streets, you know? A lot of people died (obviously). There was cannibalism (of people who died from the famine). But according to people who lived through it, there wasn’t as much crime as you would expect. A huge black market. And a lot of selling diamonds and gold for a piece of bread— but not a lot of killing FOR that bread. Part of that could be explained by the difference in societies, but I think the majority of people are more prone to organizing than they are killing each other.
monty845@reddit
I think the community does commonly underestimate how much people will try to organize and hold it together. The US has many levels of government, such that county and local government very much can run things, if things break down at higher levels. And if there is any hope of holding things together, even at the neighborhood level, people will try.
But, we also need to be realistic. A small farming town/community in a flyover state has a very real chance of being able to support itself, even if the entire national logistics system breaks down. There would be challenges, some may fail, but it very much is not a hopeless situation.
On the other hand, if you are in a major metro area, once it becomes clear that the collapse is severe and long term, it is objectively a hopeless situation, at least for most of the population. There is zero chance NYC can feed itself without 95% of the population dying/leaving.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
It's not a matter of trying to organize and hold things together- I don't dispute that people, and the government, absolutely would try.
My point is that, in a true, severe, and complete collapse, it wouldn't matter nearly as much as people think. It's certainly not hopeless- but I air on the side of caution to be pleasantly surprised rather than the alternative.
In the end, rural community still rely on modern farming methods to import fertilizer and run machinery, for example. The situation would be better than major cities, yes. But the equation is still the same: No food production = starvation. The current population in the U.S. is only sustainable due to modern infrastructure. Remove that, and the population will reduce back to what's sustainable by the land, or somewhat in that ballpark (which is 1800's level of population, if that.)
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Yes +1.
And folks don't always think about the MULTIPLE failure points in this idea that agriculture is easy. Just take for example a hydraulic hose breaking on a piece of equipment. Not something you can just throw some duct tape on and get back to it. May be a handful of shops in your area that even make new hoses and I've been back with the guys while they are making them- the machines require electricity.
Farmer Joe might have a nice tractor, hell he might even have some fuel in storage, he might even have some grease, trans fluid, extra hydraulic (most people that have tractors or heavy equipment have at least SOME of these things) but I pretty much guarantee you at $300-500. per small hydraulic hose section, he does not have a complete set of spare hoses for each piece of equipment.
That means at worse the equipment doesn't function correctly, at best, something is leaking hydraulic fluid every time the equipment is run- now pretty much unreplaceable fluid...
Tons of failure points in modern agriculture unfortunately.
PraxicalExperience@reddit
On the other hand -- in a total breakdown, you're not farming a huge fucking plot of wheat, 'cause you're not gonna be able to sell it. You're gonna farm enough for yourself and whatever neighbors you're banding together with, hopefully with a surplus that can go into storage in case next year's harvest sucks. So that equipment's being used a lot less, and you certainly can transition over to simpler machinery (or just manual labor if absolutely necessary) to get a subsistence crop in.
So that reduces wear and tear on the equipment, and reduces the consumption of consumable and repair parts. If there's local organization to prioritize resource use then you can probably keep things going for years from what's available in local shops, rigging up temporary or permanent generation capacity as needed.
Similarly -- yeah, you won't be able to get industrial fertilizer any more. But -- is it really needed? Again, we're flipping the script from 'how can I get the absolute most out of the land I have so I can profit' to 'what is the yield I need to obtain in order to ensure that we can feed ourselves for the next year and have both seed corn and extra in the granaries in case there's a bad year?'
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Truff. +1
And carrying capacity/needs will be less if there is a big die off.
Up to the advent of more modern machinery- tractors, etc. larger scale Ag involved slaves or serf/tenant farmer type arrangments, i.e, Baron Von Schneider owned all the land in that area and you leased 50 acres and paid 10% of your crops yearly for the lease type of arrangement.
The advent of the tractor before the 1860's could have possibly avoided Civil War (1.0) as no one would have kept a slave "cradle to grave" when they could have bought or leased/rented a tractor that did the work of dozens of slaves and did not require "cradle to grave" care.
On a personal level, I will try to keep any of my heavy equipment going as long as I can but don't realistically expect that to be that long due to the failure points listed as well as costs related to some of the spare parts. Last time I needed a hydraulic hose on my bulldozer, another near it was looking bad but still functioning. I thought "I'll replace that one also and keep the still working as a spare." Went to pay the bill for the two and guy said "$700." and I wondered if I really needed that spare right now LOL. Got it anyway.
We should all do what we can re: developing our soil now ahead of time in the largest scale we each can personally do. If that's a 10x10 spot in suburbia, well that's a start and you'll learn a lot from that, hopefully it's more but do what you can with what you got.
PraxicalExperience@reddit
Weirdly, I feel like the very small farmers would be the ones who would be best off long-term. Those giant fuck-off automated combines used on plots that are square miles would inevitably fall to entropy and lack of ability to make replacement parts -- but that dude with like ten acres who just has a little tractor from like the 60s, you could keep that running almost forever with access to a small machine shop and someone who knows how to use it.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Exactly. +1
And on a corporate farm, who shows up for work from miles away if your not getting paid? Meanwhile Farmer Jones with his ten acres like you said, probably lives on his farm still and ten acres is manageable versus 1000 acres.
My 1990's tractor agrees 😄
ADCregg@reddit
I’m again, iffy. Maybe partly because I’m in NYC. Partly because my family in Ukraine was also in the biggest city. everything I’ve heard about the crime and black markets and such comes from city people. And they did survive. Now- this might also be a product of different societies. Agricultural areas in Ukraine at that time were basically stripped of all their food by the Soviet government, and basically sealed off, so people couldn’t flee. So I guess this depends on how active the American military would be, and what the central government would be doing. But regardless of how rural areas would be treated, major cities also didn’t collapse into crime during that kind of famine.
OldChippy@reddit
I'll tell why you are wrong, with an example. Here in AU, armed government, military and police compared to population is 200:1. More than half will be home, Mia, off duty or guarding bases and facilities. Let's assume 500:1.
An example. During covid for well over a year I ignored all rules. I drove to my fav malatang place, relatives, went mountain biking and every weekend drove out to my farm. The amazing thing was the complete absence of police. Roads out of Sydney were empty.
The government people with guns will exist but they will be somewhere else up to their eyeballs in more than enough work.
ADCregg@reddit
I’m not sure how you’re telling me I’m wrong. You’re just telling me you got away with breaking some rules during Covid, that were mostly put in place to try and stop the spread of the virus. Not to take anything from you.
monty845@reddit
The prepper imagined collapse is generally accompanied by a complete absence of government, and particularly no help/control from the federal government.
But really, there isn't a modern example, as we haven't had a global catastrophe anywhere near that severe, and in the absence of such an event, there is always hope that help arrives from outside. The worst that has happened in modern times, has also usually actively involved the Government making it worse, as with the holodomir, which is a very under considered angle among preppers.
Codicus1212@reddit
Most of us look at New York City and see 13 million people three days away from food riots and mass starvation. In reality though, that’s 13 million people who would willingly take up arms at the behest of whatever power structure remains/emerges to go “secure the farmland to protect the city”. Many would still starve, sure. Many would do their own thing. But I would hate to be a farmer, homesteader, or prepper within a few days drive to New York City.
ADCregg@reddit
Yeah, I can’t really imagine that the govt just magically disappears unless we’re in a VERY movie-like scenario. Zombies or something. If anything, I just assume the govt gets more authoritarian during any serious major prepper worthy situation like a famine. Where I’d be a lot more worried on a farm than I would be in nyc.
wtysonc@reddit
So I'm in a rural area, not a city, but I've lived through a natural disaster - - there were no cops or other government agents out at all the day of the flood and for a few days afterwards. Some died, some were injured, some had their houses destroyed, some just had trees fall and their road washed away, but they couldn't get out. Furthermore, their communication networks were gone, so they couldn't talk to one another and organize. It was chaos for a few days, and that's just on a local scale
JRHLowdown3@reddit
A lot how it was here during Helene. We were out clearing roads for other people a few days after it (no not a "repair crew" or "my job" for that one idjit that jumped me on this). About four days later on that same road we finally saw someone from our county- 3 fat guys crammed in a pickup truck sweaty. They started complaining about they didn't have chainsaws big enough to clear some trees further down. I laughed cause I saw the little trees down that way they were complaining about. I told them - "Yep those big pines at the other end of the road, my son, my wife, my BIL and I cleared them with two chainsaws and my old backhoe" The pic will give you an idea of the size of the trees I'm talking about...
https://www.instagram.com/p/DAtdc6DPS8w/
That was the ONLY time we saw any local gubmint folks out doing anything till long after the hurricane and they weren't technically doing much. You are on your own and the quicker you figure that out the better off you will be.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
The gubmint magically disappearing in a survival situation would be our best long term case, but unlikely. It's a bleak thought but a full scale nuclear war might create a situation wherein the gubmint is largely gone or ineffective, power comes back to local areas and states/regions with a large percentage of the population dead and a return to agriculture (based on necessity).
Codicus1212@reddit
Kyiv fared much better than the rural areas during the Holodomor, largely because the famine was engineered and orchestrated by the state. In Kyiv they gave out ration cards and weren’t trying to starve everyone. In the rural areas they stole food, issued no ration cards, and were deliberately trying to kill the people who lived there.
Just based off of history I think the biggest threat to farmers, homesteaders, and other preparedness minded people who don’t live in big cities, will be from the people like you who pledge allegiance to whatever power structure emerges, is given a rifle, and agrees to go “secure the farmland” or some bullshit.
ADCregg@reddit
I think some critical thinking would maybe help you out. Was i pledging allegiance? Or was I pointing out that govt gets objectively more athoriatarian in times of crisis, historically. Do we think those are separate things? Possibly the danger comes from people like you, who 1. Lack reading comprehension on a fundamental level, 2. Lack that self awareness, and 3. Then draw solid conclusions based on shitty comprehension and run with it.
Codicus1212@reddit
I never said you pledged allegiance. I can see where my verbiage was off, sorry. I meant people who live in food deserts (like a large city with no local ability to produce more food) would be the ideal foot soldiers in a land grab over farmland and resources. It’s easy to forget that the government can only be as authoritarian as the people who are constituent parts of it allow. It took a lot of people to enforce borders and willfully starve the rural farmers in the holodomor, after all. Many of the people who helped perpetuate that holocaust were local, and did so in order to secure food for who they viewed as their community.
That was my whole point. I didn’t meant to implicate you specifically. I would have hoped a rational adult would have been able to discern that was not the intent. What basis would it have been based on?
ADCregg@reddit
That would require me thinking you are a rational adult with no prior exposure to you, random redittor. Never a great bet. I’m sorry, I read your comment the exact way it was written. As in, grammatically that is literally the only correct interpretation of what you said. If you screwed up the verbiage, that’s fine. Apology accepted. I have no reason to doubt it. I also had no reason to do mental cartwheels to think you didn’t lol.
And personally, I disagree with the bones of your take, in several ways. But sure. It goes back to my original point— that I don’t think cities are as fucked as most people who seem to think, and I don’t think rural areas are as safe.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
The crime there was that Stalin had disarmed the populace already, so the commisars coming in and taking what little food the peasants had wasn't able to be resisted. And soon, just like you see here and there now in Amerika, anyone who had anything, a handful of grain more than you, was a Kulak..
Stalin had a hatred for Ukraine. I'm sure for you this is something you've heard about time and time again from grandparents, etc. but for us in Amerika, everyone should read "Red Famine" and take it to heart.
ADCregg@reddit
Yeah, I was kind of scaling up in my head. The Soviet populace was barely armed at all, and the American populace is extremely armed today. But Stalin had human soldiers with guns, while the American government has AI power drones. So I’m not sure it matters how many guns the American populace actually has. Not when it comes to tightened govt controlled.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
Perhaps, but I also think the situations aren't entirely comparable. The population that exists now in the States is so far removed from genuine hardship, that the counter-reaction will be, in my opinion, much more severe (especially due to the hyper-individuality aspect of society.) One other factor is that, especially in the Holodomir, however, there was a semblance of government- even if it was a vile one. I'd argue that lack of governance (which would eventually result in a total grid collapse,) is the key missing ingredient here.
ADCregg@reddit
Right. That was pointed out to me. I didn’t realize people were envisioning a situation where the government disappears. I can’t imagine that would be the case. It’s just historically almost never the case. In my mind, almost any situation like this leads to tighter government control, not less.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
And in many cases, you'd be correct. In a complete infrastructure failure, however, a collapse of government (at least in terms of national control) would be almost guaranteed. It wouldn't vanish- it'd just be unable to maintain anything outside of a localized area until communications are restored bit by bit.
Eventually it would return- but not in a recognizable way to what we've got now.
HostSea4267@reddit
So interesting question: if you're a crop farmer, will the looters show up to the mid west? Or will you just keep farming and locally have enough food, but nationally with a lack of transportation infrastructure end up with starvation?
As you said, big cities become uninhabitable. Civilization formed around the Nile river, because it provided irrigation. Similarly, do we experience this type of 'cultural shift' in a prolonged disaster, with new nation states forming locally.
Killing a farmer doesn't help anyone.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
The primary issue is that modern farming requires an intact infrastructure to function, and less than 2% of the population are actually employed AS farmers. In the end, supplies would likely spoil, be stolen, or otherwise controlled by local entities.
So ultimately, you won't be able to keep farming. Gas runs out, electricity fails, and you've got no fertilizer/pesticides. From what I understand, modern farming is a completely different beast than farming without intact infrastructure.
https://www.fb.org/newsroom/fast-facts
bedlumper@reddit
You don’t think the hungry people will scavenge toward your home? And maybe they’d not want, but need what you have? I feel like we have different visions of what people are capable of.
NotEvenNothing@reddit
No. I don't. For one, I'm a long way from anything. If resources are short, heading in my direction is not a good gamble.
And if anybody did show up in need, I would welcome them. Since we would be well into turning out property into a food factory at that point, we could use the help.
Despite movies and TV shows, reality shows that people on the ground generally understand that fighting over resources is not a good investment of their time. Given the choice of peacefully picking up a shovel and being fed indefinitely, or risking one's life and being fed for a month, almost everyone goes the peaceful route. It doesn't make for good drama, but it is the case.
KaleAshamed9702@reddit
Yeah I mean, if you can never buy a can of beans at the grocery store again, running out of beans is much more of a problem
HostSea4267@reddit
I think there is one more: when you don't know if/when there will be a return to normalcy. Is there anyone online here from say, they middle east, Ukraine, afghanistan, etc. where they are under the thumb of a tyranical government or involved in a prolonged war.
As you said, you need a mindset shift, but at the same time you're not exactly sure which one you're in as it isn't always obvious. I'm not sure Ukrainians realized how bad this would get, for example.
Gas prices are currently experiencing that as well; we're somewhat lucky in North America that we can be a little bit more insulated, but what happens if you have an oil based nation head into a winter with no oil.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
I agree- the situation may very well not happen overnight. It could be a slow and steady collapse. That just requires shifting your mindset from one 'normal' to the other.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
This. +1
You cannot extrapolate actions in a short term event to something more serious.
Why? Cause people are expecting a "return to normalcy" and as such some will keep the MASKS on (don't mean face masks) and "social norms" will still be in effect for the most part.
Raddish3030@reddit
Time and location, too. Some cities and states are primed to establish a "new normal"
flying_wrenches@reddit
I’d much rather run out of food in 2 months with new found friends vs 2 years and die sad and alone amidst my tubs of peanut butter and rice.
Enigma_xplorer@reddit
This is likely true.
In the short run I don't think looting would be a big problem outside of business in general. The one big exception would be if there are mass evaluations which basically screams rob me, no ones here.
Also remember frankly, no one wants your rice and beans they want cash and valuables. They might steal you guns or generator but they aren't targeting your supplies intentionally, they are looking for valuables. They might steal gas if you leave it outside in an unlocked shed and make it easy for them but again that's more of a crime of opportunity than targeted desperation.
The only time I really see looting homes for supplies being a real concern is when things get really desperate, desperate in a way you are unlikely to ever see in a developed country. When people are literally starving to death I think the risks for looting homes rises. Those risks multiply if people know you have stuff worth taking. If you in anyway way let on you have supplies by helping neighbors or going out and mowing your lawn when no one else has gas you put a target on your back. Basically there's a price tag on your supplies. Anyone who has done the math and seen the reward outweighs the risks just might take you up on that offer. So don't make yourself look like an easy target and don't make yourself look like you have something worth stealing.
lr99999@reddit
I don’t agree with this. At the very beginning, they’ll be crashing windows and stealing TVs.
When the stores are empty, the most valuable thing on earth will be a chicken leg.
Enigma_xplorer@reddit
But there is exactly the thing. The assumption that the stores will be empty. I'm not just saying empty like you have to eat pork because they are out of chicken literally empty, completely devoid of edible food. Also understand, it's not not just stores but the fridge is empty, the soup kitchen is closed, restaurants and fast food are closed. Furthermore, this would have to be the reality that is universally true everywhere you could get otherwise you would just hop in a car and drive to the next town over. Also, the government must have basically ceased to function because otherwise FEMA or the red cross would be bringing in aid. Even international organizations like the UN would be stepping in if the situation was so dire so most of the world would have to cease to function?
At this point it is realistic you could see looting for food as a realistic possibility. However this condition is so extreme it's basically not even worth considering in the developed world at least. Look at the examples they give in the article like the siege of Leningrad. The odds of ever living though an event like that particularly in the developed world are like .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%? I mean your more likely to be killed by a plane falling on your house than that. If you live in a poor or war torn country like Lebanon or in Gaza sure that might be a bit more of a realistic concern but in the US? It's almost comical to think about the conditions that would need to be in place for this to be a reality.
lr99999@reddit
When people figure out that something is big wrong, the stores will be empty. And ppl have a very poor understanding about how food is actually warehoused, not to mention they don’t understand what a trucking interruption will mean. When the dominoes start to fall, it would be ugly.
Americans are the most conceited people imaginable. They would have to let go of a lot of assumptions, and they’re gonna be pissed off about it. Our ability to cope will be less than the most primitive tribe. Anyone who thinks that uncle sugar is coming to save us in this political environment is quite delusional.
Enigma_xplorer@reddit
Well but again there's the thing. It's easy to say something like well what if all trucking just stopped but it's a lot harder to say how exactly you would shut down all forms of transportation and their alternatives. This isn't about increased costs or inefficiencies, your proposing a complete shutdown of transportation, that cannot be fixed, for an extended period of time, that would cause people to be so desperate they actually start raiding homes. That's a tough sell frankly.
Codicus1212@reddit
You’re missing the point. The question isn’t “is it likely to happen?”. It’s “this could happen, as unlikely as it may be. It’s happened and time again in human history. A black swan comes along and ends a civilization, poses an existential risk to humanity, and we barely eek by. What should I do to prepare? What’s reasonable, sustainable, and logical? What would I do if the worst happened?”
In the end, does it matter what shuts down trucking and/or food production and delivery? Not really. It’s semantics. Climate change. Droughts and famines. Wars. Economic collapse that prohibits the UN from saving 350 million starving Americans (and neighboring countries/the rest of the world, etc).
Nobody can predict the future. But we can spot our own vulnerabilities and adjust. And there are levels to it. One person might stockpile a week’s worth of food and water and consider anything else to be extremist and illogical. Another person might have direct experience of a prolonged famine and have a fully self sufficient homestead and $20,000 worth of preparedness equipment and gear.
My grandparents, for instance, lived through the Great Depression. My grandmother used to bring a slice of bread, a slice of tomato, and a dollop of bacon grease as a lunch. And she was lucky to have it. My grandfather left school when he was 12 to go to work because he was tired of being hungry and wanted shoes. Guess who had a fully stocked pantry with months worth of food, a farm, etc decades later?
Enigma_xplorer@reddit
Thats actually not true, it is exactly a question of "how likely is this to happen?" We have a limited amount of resources and competing priorities. WW3 could break out and a nuclear bomb could land on my house. Technically it could happen. Does that mean I should cash out my 401k to build a bunker? Or am I vastly more likely to retire someday and literally need that money to survive in old age?
Again technically it is possible there could be massive food shortages and roving bands of gangs pillaging homes. If you believed that to be a LIKELY outcome how would you prepare? Quit your job and move out into the middle of nowhere hours from civilization? Or do you think losing your income, health insurance, and access to public services presents a way greater risk to you than that imagined band of roving hordes?
On trucking as an example yes it really does matter why because when you are assessing risk you really do have to look at it and say ok, how could you disable every truck in America? A diesel shortage? Your telling me your going to destroy all of America's ability to produce or import diesel from the rest of the world indefinitely? What would that require? Even then you still have to say ok supposing you were able to eliminate every truck in existence are there alternatives? People seem to forget that humans aren't blocks of wood, they respond to events and adapt. You really have to look at something like that and ask is this honestly a credible possibility worth preparing for? You cannot just let your imagination run wild.
Everything is an assessment of risk because you cannot prepare for every possible event and contingency. Ultimately choices have to be made and I would rather encourage people to prepare for suffering a job loss rather than the technically theoretically possible alien invasion.
Codicus1212@reddit
I look at it as two separate issues. One, prepping in a traditional sense, stockpiling food and supplies, etc, you definitely need some sort of logical razor with which to discern what to prioritize. You must draw a proverbial line in the sand beyond which you don’t concern yourself, or else you turn into some sort of survivalist hoarder nut job.
On the other hand, every society in human history has fallen apart and collapsed. It’s the epitome of hubris to think the same won’t happen to our global civilization on day. The how of it is not relevant because there is no way you can stockpile enough food, enough of anything. So you much approach it from a different paradigm. How would I live and continue to provide for those around me if there were no grocery stores, no food trucks, no international aid? Some might go the bunker route, but that’s not a real answer to rhetoric problem. Far better would be to establish self sufficiency to grow your own food, build and repair things yourself, etc. Similar to how a bushcrafter might go into the wilderness with minimal tools and resources, yet be prepared to build shelter, hunt, trap, fish, etc. Whereas a hiker or camper only has enough to sustain themselves for a given amount of time.
Once you achieve a certain level of self sufficiency you stop worrying about what exactly could go wrong that would cause major issues. The semantics stop mattering as much. Focus shifts to sustainability. You know you can grow enough food to feed your family for a year. But what about the following year? Do you use store bought fertilizer? Crop rotation? Are the plants you plant close together going to harmonize and help enrich each other and the soil, or are they in competition? If a wild animal got into your yard could they wipeout all your livestock and chickens in one night, or are there different levels of insulation to prevent a complete (personal) catastrophe?
From personal experience, it is possible to make yourself much more self sufficient without moving to the boonies, quitting your job, losing health insurance, etc. A garden does not need to be large enough to support your whole family now, so long as you have the ability to scale it if needed. A few chickens now can turn into a few dozen later. A rain catchment system used to water the garden (a save on water costs), can be filtered and used in an emergency.
Enigma_xplorer@reddit
Yes you do draw lines but where you draw them is typically based on your risk assessment. I mean you would probably say it's crazy to build a nuclear bunker but once upon a time that risk was perceived as being much higher and even governments were actually building shelters. "Survivalist hoarders nut jobs" are just those perceived as preparing for unreasonable risks.
Also, understand when you say "societies collapse" think about what that really means. The people don't disappear. The machines and factories don't disappear. Stores still exist. The infrastructure still exists. Societal bonds don't disappear. The fundamental framework of society still exists. Borders and currencies may change and people may find themselves under "new management" but the world keeps on turning it's not a descent into chaos and nothingness. It's just different. Maybe even a better different.
Self sufficiency is great where you can achieve it practically but that assumes that the likelihood of people looting homes for supplies is not really a probable concern which is the original point of this thread. Otherwise, your just prepping for someone else. Even in tough times the likelihood of populations being so desperate they are breaking into homes to steal the potatoes is just not really very realistic in most of the developed world at least.
thunderhawkburner@reddit
Isnt that what Enigma said?
lr99999@reddit
No. I think they will want your rice and beans and toilet paper very, vey, quickly.
Millions of people don’t have much in their pantry. A lot of people don’t have more than a few bottles of water if that tap doesn’t work.
Some of them feed their kids fast food, burgers and nuggets, and others eat out or call DoorDash. Some people are too poor to have extra. I do think they’re going to be going to individual homes, and I do think they’re going to raid your garden.
If there’s a war, I’m sure we’ll have plenty of weapons, but if anything else happens, our social support infrastructure is crumbling. Thinking we’re too much of a developed country to get in deep shit made me laugh.
So no, not the same.
Onehundredyearsold@reddit
“ The only time I really see looting homes for supplies being a real concern is when things get really desperate, desperate in a way you are unlikely to ever see in a developed country. When people are literally starving to death”.
You mean like the Great Depression? That was less than 100 years ago. You don’t have to starve to death, severe malnutrition will kill just as surely. Starvation and malnutrition exacerbates health problems & opens up people for disease, infections, mental decline.
I remember how people acted with cabbage patch dolls, more recently toilet paper, street takeovers & “demonstrations”. Violence is becoming more common place. I don’t share knowledge of what I may have or not have.
Enigma_xplorer@reddit
But that is exactly the point. When you look at an event like the great depression which was a great example of very hard economic times that led to genuine food scarcity. However in spite of this there were no roving bands of gangs raiding homes. People actually helped each other. The situation would have to be much more dire than even the great depression.
Again even looking at COVID and the toilet paper shortage again you didn't see people raiding homes for sanitary products. What are people actually stealing? Valuables like tools or copper wiring and plumbing or catalytic converters. Stuff they can convert into cash, not your rice and bean stash.
Even things like demonstrations or street take overs. That's evidence of civil unrest not that people would have an inclination to steal your supplies.
MNConcerto@reddit
Don't share that you have a deep pantry with anyone is the first rule because people will remember in a crisis and share this info.
Its oh yeah I keep a well stocked pantry but nobody knows to what extent.
I have a hard time with people sharing their pantry and talking about what they have on social media.
Barry-umm@reddit
"Come on in, I have enough sardines and pickled turnips to last us for ages."
Opsec vs counter intelligence
dasherado@reddit
Jokes on you, that sounds luxurious, especially with summer foraging. But a life supply of Pemmican would be hard to stomach for long.
SquashBig6344@reddit
I feel attacked, thats my favorite combo
Codicus1212@reddit
Until they’re hungry enough. Then they’ll settle for the sardines and pickled turnips. They’ll just be mad about it.
lr99999@reddit
The older prep forums on the Internet were pretty hard-core. I learned there. The newer ones’ like this have nicer more generous people, but some of the philosophy hasn’t been thought through till the end. Hard truth is that in a collapse, if your child has one piece of food, the father of another child will take that food out of your child’s mouth for their child. We are biologically wired to do that.
Don’t expose your preps. Learn opsec. Be careful who you form a community with. As for me, (I’m lucky in this way) I will only join up with people who would not take food away from any children in my group.
This is the un-fun side of prepping. People always hate these kinds of posts.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
+1 That's the reality of it. Especially in the state that Amerika is in right now, everyone is selfish and the FSA abides everywhere.
Definitely not going to stop any security preps now that I hear from some new guy that "your supplies PROBABLY won't be stolen during a disaster..." Somehow that statement doesn't change anything for me...
And something SHORT TERM- like Hurricane Helene- isn't really comparable to true long term disasters in this regard. No matter how much it sucked for 3 weeks, everyone around here KNEW at SOME POINT IN TIME, their precious AC would be back on and their beer in the fridge would get cold again. But even then, this "we are the world" kumbaya shit that many here think will happen, did NOT. Folks largely sat on their arses and did nothing to better their situation- waiting for someone else to do it for them. Like I said the FSA abides everywhere.
lr99999@reddit
Yup. People alive in the United States now have never experienced anything worse than a localized disaster. It’s pretty obvious that people have trouble envisioning what a real collapse would be, even though we have seen the movies.
There are actually quite a few scenarios that it could happen. It’s wise to know the difference, because if people know you have food, it’s no longer going to belong to you and you’re just gonna be another 95%’er.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Truff!!! I sure wish some here would get that and get the idea that no everyone is going to sit around and share (what they DON'T HAVE??) and sing kumbaya... Hell all you have to do is watch the news around certain events, Black Friday shopping fights, all the Worldstar type videos, etc. to realize human nature isn't the kumbaya stuff.
Docautrisim2@reddit
Keep in mind how you plan on cooking. A hungry person can smell food cooking from a surprising distance away.
relianceschool@reddit
That's a good point. From the post:
I think a lot of us have been conditioned by apocalyptic media to anticipate "The Road" type scenarios with roving bands of raiders, vs. something more like Hurricane Katrina or the Palisade Fires.
I think there's a good middle ground between hiding your preps from your spouse and making social media posts on how you've got 2 years worth of food in your basement. The Prepared has a good take on why you should share your preps, which might be a minority opinion here but I tend to fall more on that side of the spectrum than the opposite.
HostSea4267@reddit
I've been through 2 scenarios where prepping may or may not have helped.
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_1998_North_American_ice_storm
This scenario we had no phone for 3 weeks (phone companies are really slow here!)
Emergency services couldn't drive because basically everyone was sliding on a skating rink.
We lost power for 4-5 days but fortunately had a wood fireplace that we used to heat some of the house. If you're in a cold place, you need to have fire available.
2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003
Driving on the highway, cars were piled up at gas stations unable to refill as pumps run off electricity. They wouldn't sell water even as the POS terminals were down. Eventually I saw them handing out water, but they didn't at first. Didn't realize the full extent of the blackout until later that day.
By day 2, everyone was having a BBQ because they realize their meat might spoil. There was minor looting; electronics stores, I think some jewelry stores got hit, but nobody was freaking out.
For us, power came back on day 3, so nothing bad really happened. It was a small wake up call though.
I'm not sure what would have happened if it had gone on for 10+ days.
Moist-Pickle-2736@reddit
Thanks for sharing that article. Good read for someone on the “mine!” side of the fence. Maybe I’ll reconsider…
LurkersUniteAgain@reddit
yeah exactly, dont go advertising on a billboard that you have years of supply but if you see someone needing help and you have the stuff to help then help them
baardvark@reddit
Prep enough to have a little bit to share.
lr99999@reddit
Most of us could share in a localized disaster. I don’t know why people are having so much trouble envisioning a situation where that would just not work.
Aekeron@reddit
This. The only reason i am as open as i am (i dont mind talking what land / setup i have but i ignore photos to disbar any geolocators lmao) because we have enough land / resources to maintain a few hundred people in my neighborhood. Every house has almost an acre of farmable land, multiple livestock farms and crop farms around us as well. Resevoir ponds, and well water to top it off.
Biggest thing i DONT advertise is how many resources i personally have stock piled. In the breakdown, id mostly be worried about the less prepared not having a stockpile and the urgency is what forces their hand expecting that i wouldnt help them out. Instead, people around me know i have useful skills, a good head on my shoulders, and that im a bit more prepared for the long haul. When they show up at my door, itll be for advice rather than for my food and then i can choose when and who to help based on their situation, and anyone willing to work is welcome to start on the next harvest or hunt.
linniex@reddit
When i first joined this sub that was suggested and I did a 180 on my thinking. I live in a rural, isolated neighborhood in a large city. Most of my neighbors are more inclined to create trouble than help. We are one of the few back here (that we know about) that grow our own food. I started collecting more beans and rice just in case I need to trade. Still probably ‘keeping to ourselves’ first; and bugging IN
Chris_Reddit_PHX@reddit
One basic thing I learned about prepping from some LDS co-workers (I am not LDS), is that part of the reason to quietly have preps is so that you are not a drain on the normal supply chain in times of temporary interruption.
Even if you don't help neighbors directly, you are still helping them indirectly by not drawing on the supply chain while it's stretched thin.
BigJSunshine@reddit
I have always believed and relied on this assumption. But it occurs to me now that, even if prepped, I will be sure to stand in food and water lines, just to throw looters off the scent.
DEADFLY6@reddit
Thats right. Be the gray man. Even go without a shower or food on purpose. Blend in. In the words of Bruce Lee "Become water my friend" and "Dont look.....feeeeeel."
preppers-ModTeam@reddit
In this context, your comment constitutes trolling. I believe it’s okay for a prepper to take a shower every now and then.
Exact_College9161@reddit
I lived through an EF4 tornado, looting was everywhere. There is a reason you see the painted bedsheets hung from balconies that say “you loot, we shoot”. There are always people that will take advantage of chaos.
Now, were they looting food? Usually not. Most often it were things they know would be luxurious to have post disaster: TV, DVD players, PlayStations, etc.
Xsiah@reddit
I don't know the situation that you experienced, but sometimes people do things out of superstition or self expression - people love the whole "code" thing too.
Was there actually a pattern of people breaking into houses that didn't have the sheets up vs the ones that did?
almondreaper@reddit
Brother self expression? They're literally informing would be thieves that they get buckshot to the face if they try anything. It's a warning not a code. Just like trespassers will be shot signs. It's because you literally will be shot.
Xsiah@reddit
Lots of "warnings" on r/targetedshirts. Doesn't mean they're all credible, or are warning against something that's actually happening to them.
Codicus1212@reddit
Context clues. The guy in line at the local grocery store with a “I was born in March so that means I’m a wolf and will eat you for breakfast if you’re a bad guy” tee shirt is just a dweeb. Not a threat. The store with an upstairs apartment on Main Street hanging a bedsheet saying “We’ll shoot you if you loot us”, all while looting is actually taking place… and the guy standing on the balcony with a rifle… yeah. That’s a direct threat against looters. Not “self expression”.
Xsiah@reddit
You take away the sign and leave the guy with a rifle and that says enough.
You invented the context clue in your hypothetical scenario and used it to legitimize a display which may or may not have been in that context.
Codicus1212@reddit
And if you take away the traffic light people just know when they need to stop? Take away the recommended speed sign before a sharp curve and people will correctly judge the road every time?
Signs serve a purpose. Maybe they don’t see the guy with a rifle. Maybe he goes to use the bathroom. Maybe he wants to minimize the chances he does need to shoot someone, so he makes a sign to scare them off. Who can say? But it’s not a hypothetical scenario. It’s something people do after any sizable disaster here in the states. Just Google the term “you loot we shoot” and look at images. I’d say it’s an effective deterrent.
Xsiah@reddit
Actually yes, when the power goes out and traffic lights stop working people don't all just crash into each other.
But signs are also not automatically an indicator of something truthful. I don't know if it's still something that people do, but lots of people used to put security company stickers on their doors even when they didn't have the security service because they believed it served as a deterrent.
Targeted t-shirts are also an effective deterrent - I don't want to approach someone who has something unhinged written on their shirt.
I didn't say anything about doubting that it's a thing that people do, quite the opposite, I was asking if that's a thing that people just do because they believe it will help protect them.
almondreaper@reddit
A tshirt is a little different than a sign on a house i would say
beached89@reddit
A lot of people hear 1 instance of something happening, and then think it is a wide spread systemic instance. They see someone looting a store 100 miles away on Fox, then suddenly they think there is an imminent threat.
Exact_College9161@reddit
Also, there wasn’t “Fox News” because there was no power, cell signal, or internet for a week. Boil water warnings, etc. but go off about how I was paranoid from “seeing something on the news” I guess.
When I tell you it was chaos - it was pure chaos. National guard rolled up, Marshall law, curfew, looting, violence.
wtysonc@reddit
Actually living through a serious natural disaster is a fairly unique experience. My area was destroyed by flooding a few years back, and everyone was basically on their own. The flood actually happened overnight, into the morning, and there were headlamps bobbing along in the dark up and down the creek, trying to pick valuables out of the still raging floodwaters. One guy was too busy stealing shit to take care of his two little kids, who were swept away by the water to their deaths. (Heroic and incredibly kind things also happened that night, and in the recovery until today. ) My least favorite part afterwards was not having domestic water for three weeks(no power for three weeks, no internet for a month, but I went back to work after a few days and gotta shower after work).
Exact_College9161@reddit
Yeah, it seems like a lot of armchair quarterbacks in here who have never lived through something like that are assuming the morality of looters. I hope they don’t ever experience anything like it, but if they do, they have a very rude awakening.
Like the above posters claiming people hung banners from houses because “they saw it on Fox News 100 miles away”. Laughable.
smsff2@reddit
Oh gosh, that sounds a lot like humans. You might want to make a post about it so more people will know.
Exact_College9161@reddit
1) I don’t know what you all are going on about, I saw people looting with my own eyes. 2) a police helicopter with a spotlight was out nightly shooting less-than-lethal rounds at looters
Exact_College9161@reddit
It was not superstition or self expression, it’s an attempt to stop people from breaking and entering during chaos. Whether it’s credible or not, that’s up for the looter to find out.
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
But bro reddit says everyone is friend
CreasingUnicorn@reddit
The only reason any human civilization has ever existed is because people choose to work together more often than not.
Im not saying that you should trust everyone in every situation, but i am saying that if you think you can Lone Wolf your way through a disaster you will find out real quickly that everyone is better off helping instead of robbing eachother, including you.
C-Alucard231@reddit
its crazy that, members of one of the most social species on the planet, think they are smarter at figuring out survival than millions of years of evolution, and will lone wolf it.
OldChippy@reddit
Moments like that should give you pause. We are the survivors. All the rest died. At sum collecting approach works as the dead paths resulted in genes not progressing. The selfish gene has excellent data on survival strategies. Look up the section on selfish vs altrusitic. The tldr is both strategies work providing selfishness doesn't become the dominant. Key for you. Altruistic isn't always best.
Exact_College9161@reddit
Don’t get me wrong. There were definitely good hearted people that were there to help. Many of them would have given the shirts off their backs. But with the good, also comes the bad. Usually the looters would target houses they assumed were vacant, but not always.
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
I'm not disagreeing with you at all. But the 99 people who don't pee in the pool don't help at all for the 1 guy that does.
Personal security to me isn't a theoretical philosophy discussion about the percentage of good and bad. It's if there's any bad, that's enough.
Like ask any woman whether she should trust an unknown guy in a dark alley. That most men are harmless doesn't really matter on your risk management in that scenario.
Exact_College9161@reddit
I think we are on the same page.
attorneyatslaw@reddit
Most looting is of homes that have been left empty. Stuff that has been abandoned is going to get taken.
Exact_College9161@reddit
Also, if you left your house for a week and I stole all your crap, would you consider that “abandoned”? Once the roads were clear (which took days) a lot people left because it was absolute chaos. If I had children, I would have 100% left.
Exact_College9161@reddit
With all do respect, that seems sensible but I personally know several people who woke up to looters trying to enter or entering their house
Feral_668@reddit
I disagree (speaking in an up-to-date context), that seige though recent, did not have the current advancements of 2026 and was in a war. People involved in the delivery services for Amazon, Doordash and other services will likely know who has things to spare or barter if something were to happen. I see it more like a Hurricane Katrina scenario where the looters can better target houses because they or a companion used to deliver a bunch to xxxxx location.
mediocre_remnants@reddit
In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene in western NC, I personally know 2 people who had generators stolen from their house. Other folks had chainsaws and other equipment stolen from their property or vehicles. And someone stole an entire trailer full of relief supplies from an aid organization.
But yeah, these things were stolen because people left them unattended. And the point of your post seems to be that if you're home, people won't steal your stuff, which is true.
But during that emergency, many folks were out helping in the community. Keeping hunkered down on your own property while your neighbors are suffering doesn't make you a good prepper, it makes you an asshole.
Recipe-Jaded@reddit
We have a perfect real life example: hurricane katrina. Looters immediately started going house to house. So they are definitely wrong.
leaderofstars@reddit
And what about the people who weren't looting?
Recipe-Jaded@reddit
The government came and forced them to leave
leaderofstars@reddit
I feel like you're simplifying it to an absurd degree
Recipe-Jaded@reddit
I feel like you are trying to overcomplicate it
leaderofstars@reddit
good then that means we're averaging out
DeafHeretic@reddit
It depends on the variables.
Location.
In general (midwest, east coast, west coast, PNW, California, etc.) - lots of variables there, especially culture and population density. Proximity to a population center, ease of access, etc. (e.g., I expect a lot less of an issue because I live very rural and access is limited, plus few people know how to get here, much less where “here” is - very people are just going to go wandering off into the forests of a mountain looking for my supplies/etc.)
Type, severity and duration of “disaster” - forest fire, earthquake, volcano, flood, wind/snow storm. Sub variables, such as history & frequency of “disaster”. The PNW has each of these types of disasters - floods, wind/snow storms, forest fires - we have those pretty much every year. A strong Cascadian earthquake happens, on average, about once every 500-700 years and no one alive has experienced one here - but the severity could be extreme, and if severe the duration would be months at least. We have volcano eruptions periodically - but they vary quite a bit in severity and impact.
Those are just some of the variables.
Ok-Sheepherder8987@reddit
But have you prepared for the carnivorous Sasquatch being driven off the slopes of Mt Rainier into your area when it erupts?
DeafHeretic@reddit
I am closer to Mt. Hood, and I live on a mountain in the Willamette valley - so any ‘squatch are either here already or too far away. But I am ready.
Spiley_spile@reddit
If I make sure more people in my community are prepared with supplies and skills, then there will be more to go around. Danger decreases, and we can put our energy towards solving whatever crisis we are facing, together. :)
Joe-_-Momma-@reddit
Ok, first I don't know where you live. Worried about shelling?
Worry about people trying to take what you have. Yes not moving around can be safer but then you become a target. If you are not moving around it is because you have what you need.
Prep for what is most common in your area. 30 days of food and water. Then what every you need or think you may need.
thunderhawkburner@reddit
After reading a LOT of posts here I can only hope that (I live very rural) the people I know will think highly enough of me to know a few things...
I will take care of me and mine.
I will help others.
I will only be a threat to those that wish me or mine harm.
I WILL help others. But don't cross us!
WarmScientist5297@reddit
I’ve only survived one breakdown of law and order and by the third night yes people were getting robbed. I will say, however, that they kicked indoors of homes and apartments that were expected to be empty first. Later on and get a little bit worse.
WhereDidAllTheSnowGo@reddit
Meh
Global pandemic and 1 million US citizens died…
… and my house is more cluttered than before
RichardBonham@reddit (OP)
For sure, there have got to be people who have lived through the S&L crisis, the dotcom bubble, 9/11, the housing/banking depression, the Global War On Terror, the War On Drugs, J6, the Rodney King riots and ICE mass arrests for whom it’s all just another Tuesday.
Jolopy4099@reddit
Wegmans is sooo good.
cinnabunn90@reddit
Used to be Wegmans gal only. Now they copy mom and pop products, and put them out of business. Eliminate lots of choices and their Wegmans brand products are..meh for way too much. They’ve gone downhill the past 20 years.
Jolopy4099@reddit
It used to be you got the store brand bc it was half the price and just as good or better than the name brand. It definitely has gone seeing mom and pop stuff on their shelf and if it starts selling they just made their own version and stop carrying the other.
ProfessionalMeal1009@reddit
I miss Wegmans. Particularly the cafe. Their subs…🤤
X7_Shar@reddit
Wegmans? I remember that name. Went to a private school in 5th grade, the daughter of the CEO, Colleen, broke her arm on a merry go round during a class trip.
Outrageous_Yam_990@reddit
Their cheese section.... thats all i have to say!
Jolopy4099@reddit
So many varieties if fresh cheeses. Takes forever to decide what i want to try tho.
Own_Exit2162@reddit
Wegmans is unbelievable
Mechbear2000@reddit
Lol, what the F is an weggmans? Never heard of it
Meatrocket_Wargasm@reddit
Wegmans is a higher-end grocery store, located around the northeastern United States. They're considered upscale with corresponding prices. Every Wegmans I've been in has been clean, well kept, and generally pretty nice. I like their store made soup.
Mechbear2000@reddit
Thanks. With the name Wegmans I thought it was a joke
cbr@reddit
It's a really nice grocery store, but their prices on basics like pasta and beans are extremely competitive. They sell a lot of fancy stuff, but mostly they are so big that they can also sell cheap basics.
Jolopy4099@reddit
For sure, it used to be their store brand copy of name brand stuff was lole half the price. Now even their brand is too close. I usually go to Wegmans for specific things. They sre super friendly and very good about returning things. Will ask if you want to go replace it or a refund.
AutumnSparky@reddit
I ..think. It's a... store? why... would I even know that.
Now I'm concerned, that I know of this store that I don't even know of.
exhilaration@reddit
Related to this sub: our local Wegmans (Allentown PA) is listed on a local emergency preparedness document as a store with a full backup generator. I asked at customer service a few days back and they confirmed that's accurate.
SithLordRising@reddit
Higher risk in long term. Marauders are a thing.
Swineservant@reddit
We prefer Raiders...
StrangeCurrency8154@reddit
You’re built like three buttermilk biscuits still in the pillsbury cylinder, you ain’t raiding shit.
Swineservant@reddit
Nah, I'm not ICE...
StrangeCurrency8154@reddit
Based
zorionek0@reddit
“What raiding stockpiles in the wastelands of Omaha taught me about business synergy” - Fernando Mendoza, Los Angeles Raiders
funke75@reddit
But in the case of marauders (or raiders, as some prefer) they are more likely just going house to house taking what they can. In those situations you’re best defense is to either have your stores well hidden or live if a remote area where they will be less common
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
It is so refreshing to find a blog on the internet that isn't ridiculously curated / monetized / influencer-ed out. It's like I just time traveled back to 2010 internet days.
CopperRose17@reddit
I think the content of your post is extremely logical. It makes sense that you would be safer bugging in, rather than running around trying to gather supplies at the last minute. I think that if SHTF happens, a lot of people will panic at the beginning. After things settle down, it might be safer to go outside. I plan to "go to ground" with my family of four until we can survey the situation calmly. Of course, I might not be calm, :)