Hard lesson on go arounds

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Derp_Animal@reddit

You can do better, for sure. Next time, put these flaps up anyway and enjoy the panick that follows. Ask me how I know.

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I was doing T&Gs for my solo check ride in a T-34 at NAS corpus christie. On one i hit rudder shakers a millisecond before touchdown and finished the touchdown before throttle tp take off again. The instructor said I was supposed to push the throttle as soon as I got the shakers. Still passed and went on to finish flight school. Never had shakers again.

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040638245@reddit

My instructor is having me learn go arounds during ground effect before actually learning how to touch the runway. It's been very beneficial but also very difficult at first, a lot going on procedures wise and input to keep it over the runway. First time I tried it, I was over the grass during the go around lol

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InitialFeeling3894@reddit

I did the same, practice the flow. It won’t happen again.

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millionaire111111@reddit

I’ve done that before, never again. Good lesson. Move on.

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vtjohnhurt@reddit

But I can definitely say I won't be making that mistake again.

Having good intentions and resolve will not prevent you from repeating a mistake. That's a common fallacy. Discuss with your instructor how to avoid making the same mistake.

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MrSethmoo@reddit (OP)

Absolutely. I meant it more in the sense that today brought a weakness to my attention given me the opportunity to learn from it and work with my instructor to address its cause, rather than that making the mistake will magically solve the problem.

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rjmazur86@reddit

Try to remember the 5 C's.

Cram, climb, clean, cool, communicate

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bhalter80@reddit

Won't make that mistake for a couple of years?

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vtjohnhurt@reddit

One way to avoid repeating a mistake is to figure out the flaw in your Repeatable Procedure (aka SOP) that allowed you to make the mistake. Then you patch that flaw by changing your procedure. This must be done carefully because whenever you change your SOP, you risk introducing additional flaws and unforeseen consequences. But sometimes it is as simple as adding an item to a checklist. Or maybe the checklist is fine, but you got lazy and skipped the checklist. Or maybe you delayed making a decision, so you did not have time to execute the checklist.

I'm just saying that 'good intentions and resolve' are no substitute for figuring out what led up to making the mistake, and then doing something to sever the chain of mistakes that led to the mistake that you noticed.

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bhalter80@reddit

The checklist complacency one is super popular. We get used to it and they end up being almost rote callouts rather than checks. Has a student flying at night, turns off the strobes in the runup area. Did the pre-departure checklist (including strobes on), taxiid to the HS line, called for departure, took the runway ... "er um what position were the strobes in??"

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CPA0315@reddit

If it makes you feel better, I was doing solo touch and goes and on the go I forgot to retract flaps. Could not get the plane to climb and thought I was going to die. Somehow made it to like 500 ft agl before I figured out what I did. Was too panicked to retract the flaps so basically toe the flaps abeam on the downwind and started descending. Scariest 10 minutes of my life.

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Haunting_Bug6472@reddit

Nothing to be embarrassed about. Your learning and a good instructor kept you safe. Going forward you’re going to remember that do it right. Sounds like a successful sortie to me.

Now think about what would have happened if you didn’t make that mistake now and made it much later when you had your license and were all alone with nobody to stop you. Aren’t you glad you learned now the easy way vs the hard way later

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PutOptions@reddit

Okay, I'll share. My IR instructor (now at a regional) was able to join me for some practice approaches. We have almost 50 hours together at this point. Shoot an approach into a small untowered, hilltop strip. Instead of going missed (as we often do for times sake) I decide to land for some crosswind practice. The place is famous for funky turbulence over the threshold and today was special. It was an absolute carnival ride. I eventually wrestled the plane to the ground after arguably the worst "landing" I've ever had. We roll out and exit in silence. Ethan turns to me. "Dude. In all my flying with you, you've never really got yourself in a position where a go-around was needed but holy fuck. When was the last time you went around?"

"Umm. I guess my PPL checkride two years ago was the last time."

In the heat of battle, I had honestly forgot it was an option. Lack of currency.

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Headoutdaplane@reddit

There are as a crash at Merill field in Anchorage due to that. The tower called a go around, NTSB says the guy probably dumped flaps and pulled before power. Killed the pilot and his passenger.

It seems to be such a benign maneuver, but proximity to the big green thing makes it very unforgiving.

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blindpilot02@reddit

As a student pilot in training there’s nothing to be embarrassed about. You learned something. Learning is a change in behavior, attitude, thinking from the result of an experience.

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hanallday2219@reddit

Did this and continued to do this as my instructor yelled at me not too, still was dialed in with the clean it up and take back off procedure but with a 6500 ft runway, some extra altitude and no traffic she allowed me to make my mistake so I could see what would happen and learn from it.

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CtrlcCtrlvLoop@reddit

I too am a student pilot (post cross-country) and have never needed to call for a go around. My first instinct would to put in some power to reduce sink rate and if my speed went above 75-80kts I would apply back pressure on the yoke to slow me down. Once I felt more comfortable with the approach, I would then proceed with landing procedures.

Is this dangerous? Should I just call for a go around? We have trees near my runway on both sides, so it’s typical to sink a little faster coming over those trees so I got used to doing this. I have flown with three different instructors and none of them have mentioned I should have called for a go around. The only go arounds I’ve performed are simulated events from an instructor. Luckily my stall training kicks in and I know to increase power before flaps.

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Adlerson@reddit

Never rush. Even in an emergency. More problems have been created by rushing (pushing buttons and moving levers without thinking) than any other source.

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blizzue@reddit

If it makes you feel better, I’ve seen professional pilots with decades of experience bungle a go-around. Just watched it happen on my last trip. Totally froze and didn’t make any call outs and I had to guide them through the maneuver. It happens. Learn from it.

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AutomagicJackelope@reddit

Every memorable shitshow of a go-around in my entire flying career was at the 121 level, not GA. :)

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Yossarian147@reddit

Good example of why I don't teach touch and gos to pre-solo students.

As for my own embarrassing example, for some reason I thought you had to read back everything ATC said to you. I would be requesting departure clearance and ATC would say "Cessna 123, wind 280 at 12 gusting 18, runway 25 cleared for takeoff" and I would read back everything including the wind. Finally my instructor was like "you don't need to say that part"

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karantza@reddit

I'm curious, how do you teach students to solo level without T&Gs? Is every lap a stop & go or taxi back?

I trained at a super busy class D; if we didn't do T&Gs, we probably would never get cleared for a stop and go, and it'd be 15 minutes waiting in line for takeoff again.

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AutomagicJackelope@reddit

It's a good question that deserves a good answer. And as with all things in aviation, "It depends," is the only real one. The slightly longer answer, "you build into it."

The instructor mindset...there are risks, so use the building block approach with it.

In the early part of teaching landings, the taxi-back was a good time to reinforce flow/checklist mentality and the idea of not re-configuring until cleared of the runway, and also to de-brief the landing. Primacy is a bitch, so I want the ultimate desired end-result to be the first way they learn. Quality is more important than quantity at first.

As the student would gain proficiency, I'd bring TnG into it for efficiency's sake....but I'd handle the reconfigure....at first. Then, once we got that working, I'd have them reconfigure and take off on the roll, on my command, of "go around" - that way we get some muscle memory going for it.

From there, TnG would be a tool that we only used WITH an instructor. Solo practice was all full stop taxiback, go-around as needed based on airport ops.

As we got into the last phase of training before checkride, I'd let them make the decision on TnG or not, verbalize it, and then execute.

Various instructors approach this different ways, but I always liked this for the operations and area we were able to use. It worked pretty well.

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MultiMillionMiler@reddit

I included the name of the airport in one of my calls when flying in the pattern at the airport LOL. My CFI doesn't usually laugh but he did that time..

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Johnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy@reddit

Did almost the same thing a week ago.

Im also a pre solo student ~ 6 hours at that time, secound time doing touch and goes. About 5 landings in, all good until that point, id say i was a bit low on my approach and had to use a bit more power than i was used to get to the threshold. I flared maybe a bit higher than im supose to and the plane just floated for what it felt like forever. At this point we are passed the threshold and approaching the half of the runaway. My instructor tells me its time to go around, and with 0 thinking what so ever i reach to grab the flaps while the plane was still in the air. Instructor firmly grabbed my hand and took my controls. He was very pissed. Just after he took my controls i realised what i was about to do. I was in a bit of a shock, got out of the pattern so i can calm myself, did some turns and after 20 minutes we came back for a fullstop landing.

We talked this after and its safe to say i wont be doing that agian.

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BarnackBro1914@reddit

FWIW: I did the same thing...once. You won't be the last person on a go-around to try and raise the flaps all at once.

One of my take-aways from that lesson: many times in an airplane, you have to stop and think before you take action...operating the flap lever is one of those things.

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Substantial-Cat0910@reddit

Minor info request, what plane are you flying that goes flap zero for takeoffs/go arounds? In my small P2008 i have zero, takeoff, and landing notches so I'm curious

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Andy_Roo_Roo@reddit

On my second solo ever I did basically the exact same thing. Came in to land and didn’t like something so I pushed full throttle and started to climb away. In that exact same moment I instinctively reached down to retract the flaps because that’s what I always did after landing - except this time I didn’t truly land, I was going around. As soon as I dumped those flaps I immediately started losing altitude rather than climbing, despite being at full throttle and with a normal climb altitude.

Thankfully, I had enough altitude at this point (maybe 75 feet?) and the wherewithal to push the yoke forward to gain airspeed which allowed me to then resume a normal climb, but not after losing close to 50 feet in the process which was puckering to say the least. I was so rattled by the experience and upset with myself that I called my instructor after I landed and just came clean about the whole thing. My instructor was incredibly supportive and said, “Well, sounds like your training served you well. I bet you won’t make that mistake again.” I haven’t done so again yet and I don’t plan to.

I’m only ~200 hours into my flying journey but that one experience has been burned into my brain and I believe it has made me a better pilot. Now whenever I execute a go-around (lately because of power-off 180 practice gone wrong lol) I am extremely cognizant of how and when I retract my flaps. All this to say, don’t beat yourself up. You’re going to make mistakes when learning to fly and all you can do is try your best to mitigate the impact of those mistakes and to constantly stay vigilant.

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Cyberdogs7@reddit

I dumped flaps on a go around on like my 3rd solo. I was high enough and felt it quick enough to have it be a non-issue, but I can tell you 100% I have never done that again.

Maybe ask your instructor to show you what happens if you dump flaps so you can get that feeling as well?

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moxiedoggie@reddit

Nothing in aviation needs to be done fast. Except maybe a real emergency things happen fast. But always slow things down and think about what you are doing. That'll stop you from accidentally grabbing the flaps when you mean to add power on a go around.

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StrongWork_@reddit

I communicated the go around on my PPL check ride and reached for the flaps. I stopped, grabbed power and then hit the flaps when I established a climb and had some altitude.

The DPE said I was 3 seconds from failing with that move.

Point being, it happens, you learned, nobody died. 👍

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Mammoth_Impress_3108@reddit

This probably didn't even phase your instructor. In fact, it probably comforts them to know you understand the gravity of the situation.

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Oregon-Pilot@reddit

Don’t be embarrassed by that, it’s just you going through the process of learning.

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k12pcb@reddit

We have all been there. You learn, you get better. That’s why you have a cfi and that’s why we practice.

When you are doing touch and go landings it’s easy to mess up a flow when a go around comes along, dump flaps is a muscle memory because you are “ on the go”- just get your flows in memory and you will be fine.

A few weeks and you will be posting pics of your solo! Go get it!

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Zathral@reddit

I don't belive in go arounds arounds..... But I fly gliders so naturally they're quite difficult

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Bunslow@reddit

Power is what makes climbs. Flaps help aero stuff but don't do beans for power.

Overall sounds like you're as good a student as anyone on this sub. File it in your brain, move on.

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buzzly@reddit

That’s why your instructor is flying along with you - to keep you out of trouble. Everything went as designed. There will other things, it’s part of learning.

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PureMoose7735@reddit

Was working on slow flight, power off stalls for a lesson and before heading back I Did a single power on stall to prepare for the next lesson and it went great. The next day my first power on stall maneuver the left wing drops and my dumbass hits hard Left rudder. I almost put us in a spin and I knew it in the moment I fucked up. As you say it was scary, embarrassing and humbling.

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Fancy_Equal_7776@reddit

Good way to remember go arounds: cram (power), climb, clean (flaps), communicate.

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bhalter80@reddit

Can you please teach my IR retract students that going missed is just a go around which is just an airborne takeoff so ffs "positive rate" -> "gear up" not "still descending but planning to climb" -> "gear up"

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Chewyarms@reddit

You have a great instructor. Keep at it.

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Virian@reddit

I dropped full flaps all at once after a go around when I was doing my PPL. That’s a mistake you only make once.

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OracleofFl@reddit

I did the same thing...you won't do it a second time!

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AutomagicJackelope@reddit

Great lesson.

Learned (and taught) power up, climb up, clean up, call up - worked well for teaching missed approaches, too.

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Jorfogit@reddit

You’ve experienced something everyone does while learning to fly, and your instructor has stopped a dozen students from doing the same and will stop a dozen more after you.

Brush it off, keep studying, and keep your head up, you’ll do fine.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Context: Pre-solo PPL student. Instructor says I'm progressing well, running lots of pattern work right now trying to dial in landings.

Today's lesson was going well, felt like I was really getting a good grasp on my landings. Busier day in the pattern today than I'm used to, but was handling spacing well and getting in the groove. Was doing well on my altitude and speeds were bang on; really focusing on getting my roundouts and flares ironed out. Probably six or so landings in, I was feeling good. Land, flaps zero, full power. Land, flaps zero, full power. Land, flaps zero, full power.

Next landing, there were two craft in the pattern and one on long final. I extend my downwind to slot in behind them. Approach is looking decent, spacing is good. Getting closer and I'm a bit lower than I'd like to be. I tell my instructor that, and she says "Okay, what do you want to do about that?" At this point I'm close to the threshold, traffic in front of me is still on the runway approaching their exit, and I'm feeling uncomfortable with the landing so I call a go around. This is maybe my third or so go around since starting training?

After calling the go around, I communicate my actions as I perform them. I say "flaps zero, full power" and reach for the flap handle. As I grab it and press the button, my instructor reaches up to pin the throttle and says "Don't touch those flaps." At that point I realized I had got my wires crossed and almost dropped us onto the runway threshold.

Scary, embarrassing, and humbling. But I can definitely say I won't be making that mistake again. Going to spend tonight studying up on my procedures and practicing go arounds in the sim.

Please share some of your hard/embarrassing lessons learned as an early PPL, I'm trying to convince myself I'm not the only one to screw up like this.

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