Is a Bachelor’s in Computer Information Systems worth it for breaking into IT?
Posted by Palestinealways@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 223 comments
I have an associate’s in cybersecurity and I’m currently pursuing a bachelor’s in Computer Information Systems. I want to break into IT (starting with help desk or IT support) and eventually make $100K+, but I’m unsure if getting the bachelor’s is worth it or if I’ll struggle to find a job after graduating. I’m currently a car salesman but want to transition into tech.
hellofairygodmotha@reddit
I am on track to make $100k no degree lol
AGDelicious@reddit
Based
hellofairygodmotha@reddit
🤷♀️ all IT takes is a natural talent
Think_Network2431@reddit
Speaking for SMEs, systems is one of the best areas in IT for several reasons.
In my country, they’re rare, and nobody understands what you do—or wants to.
Part of the job relies on users’ lack of understanding, and AI can’t really fix that.
And the good thing is, that lack of understanding isn’t going anywhere.
OkieKing@reddit
Either I've never heard of it or we call it something else in the States
therusteddoobie@reddit
What do you call a Subject Matter Expert in the states?
OkieKing@reddit
Not SME, Systems. SME is common but every time I meet someone called a Systems Anything it's a totally different job based on their description. Like my job is SysAdmin basically but that just means that I do anything I get asked about.
Think_Network2431@reddit
SME might be a wrong translation since I’m not a native English speaker.
I meant that in small to medium-sized companies, being a systems engineer is like having Willy Wonka’s golden ticket. You’re a jack of all trades, and if you handle it well, it can put you in a very strong position, sometimes even without a formal degree.
In my company, I’m the only one fully independent, with no real supervision. I live the way I want and set my own hours, as long as the servers are running and users can work.
On the other hand, it’s different in large companies with more than 1,000 employees. It becomes more rigid and less interesting.
I can see myself staying in an internal system administrator role long-term, and it’s not a particularly stressful path.
OkieKing@reddit
Ah, I have had basically the opposite experience. Systems people are treated like helpdesk+ where you do everything possible and you get paid below average while working essentially around the clock. Devs and high-level mgmt are the only people being paid well within 4 hours of me based on my experience. It's a big reason why I want to get out of IT altogether and get into anything else.
Think_Network2431@reddit
It’s basically supply and demand. In my country, people in this field are like unicorns. During training, there were only 15 of us compared to 75 regular developers.
To give you an idea, I asked for a huge raise compared to my previous salary (+3,500/Month). They actually offered +4,000/Month just to lock me in.
223454@reddit
Guys, pay doesn't mean much without location info.
jainesh3271@reddit
I believe having a degree is a plus point cuz most of the companies are filtering candidates based on minimum education qualification. If you do not have that qualification you'll be rejected on first place.
stackjr@reddit
Here's the truth: it is a brutal market right now. None of us can tell you what the future will hold for you when you graduate. Will it help? Absolutely. Will it guarantee you a job? Definitely not.
Also, you should temper your salary expectations a bit. You'll make $100k+ eventually but you'll probably start out around the $50k range.
StatementNext682@reddit
This was literally my experience. Started 4 years ago as $24/hr intern. Went from msp to msp to internal and now I make >600K. Hustle, show up, and stroke egos.
steveatari@reddit
Bull fucking shit this is the whole story.
StatementNext682@reddit
Does 8 years selling phones while also being the local IT for the company count?
cyberman0@reddit
It definitely will not guarantee a job. Here is the truth from my view, every person I have met with a masters about 75% seem to be actually worse with a masters. I'm not saying you are in this group but the sad truth is they fell into congrats you can pass a test group. In the end however, they couldn't IT themselves out of a paper bag. They had a total lack of intuition on how to deal with anything. At this point I think the best path is certs and gaining experience in roles. I started at phone support for an ISP, but I'm at 20+ years now. In my eyes hard earned experience is the best teacher.
cyberman0@reddit
All of the managers that are on this thread. I'm going to drop a suggestion, if you run into a technician that worked at EarthLink or Onemain back in the days of dial up, if they ranked up at EarthLink to Sr or Master tech (I was master) take a good hard look at them. The skills gained there have carried every single one of us through to continue being tech to this day. As an example here were some things that happened to me. Hey guys why are you putting a Mac on my desk I have next to no treatment - Congrats you are now a Mac specialist blink. Manager to me - Hey your good with cell phones right? Yeah - Ok you are supporting blackberry through us now. Manager - hey you know high speed, connections and router right ? Me - Generally yes - good we are going to have you support our Satalite internet ( in the early 2000's lol). Yeah we all were in the deep end of the pool. 😭
Chrisholloway12@reddit
Felt. I got an associates and then worked an internship to hire. Got way more experience that way. Haven’t bothered going back to school, just been working my way up over the years
sambodia85@reddit
I think it’s because so much of IT is just kind of dealing with whatever shit comes our way, having to quickly understand what the Users are trying to do, which means we have to learn a little about their profession to understand what an acceptable solution would be.
So who thrives on just kind of winging it under constant pressure? ADHDer’s.
What is an ADHDer’s kryptonite? Solving problems that are not interesting, novel, challenging, urgent or passionate……e.g. formal learning.
So I’d agree with you, if somebody is neurotypical enough to complete a Masters, it’s probably because they got into IT for the money, and don’t have any real passion for it. whereas the rest of us are just out here living for the day, struggling for the next interesting challenge that might finally bring us the dopamine hit that never actually comes.
cyberman0@reddit
I agree with you to some extent. Then they start to job hunt and realize what the pay actually is and that the percentage of us that are paid what we are worth is an incredibly small %. That said I doubt that will change anytime soon.
justaguyonthebus@reddit
Absolutely this. It took me 10 years to break 100k, but it really took off after.
steveatari@reddit
Wow. I gotta chase money more. 20 years in the field not cleaning 100k
justaguyonthebus@reddit
I chased the opportunities even when they required relocation (as long as the math worked out in my favor).
Exalting_Peasant@reddit
50k if internal, for MSPs I've seen entry level getting screwed at 30-40k /yr. You'd make more waiting tables.
Global-Monitor-5037@reddit
Started a gov job at 21/hr. Its Help desk. Sucks but if it gets my foot in the door.
My background: Associates in Computer Science Military Net+, Sec+, RHCSA
Got the job right after finishing Sec+.
Shaggy_The_Owl@reddit
Man I just had an MSP reach out starting at 160k NZD up to 200k nzd.
Really made me think but I’d rather have my cushy in house role than an msp gig with 60% more pay. Not worth it.
Ferretau@reddit
If they are willing to offer you that sort of money in NZ then they expect to get a return of at least 4x that with billings from clients.
EmmaRoidz@reddit
Maybe... NZ has a big problem with their citizens bailing on the country.
A LOT of them are moving to Australia for work as the right wing government that got in has tanked their economy and made it a haven for the ultra rich. So I can see in some circumstances where some places might be super desperate for people and paying really high.
Or they want to grind you into dust.
Probably both lol...
PeakWattage@reddit
Not sure what caused my dad to leave NZ 26 years ago with the whole family. OK, it's definitely the US salaries lol. But had there been jobs for 160K-200K in NZ, my dad probably would have stayed.
lpbale0@reddit
I did make more waiting tables, but thats just work and not a career I suppose...
Warronius@reddit
You say this but don’t include PTO , health insurance and 401k all of which you don’t get with waiting tables , poor advice .
StuckinSuFu@reddit
Msp is mostly just a boot camp to learn for new folks. Do your time then leverage the wide but shallow technical experience to move to bigger and better things. You touch so many things the MSP experience really preis you for a mid carrier technical interview
And like all reddit advice this is broadly speaking. I know there are some unicorn MSPs that can be a career. But that's not most
mfinnigan@reddit
I worked for an MSP that paid quite a lot, to retain talent that otherwise was inclined to leave
Climbsforfun@reddit
Same, I learned enough to go out on my own with another guy, then later got bought out by another msp to bring my clients. Once I got tired of that, jumped straight into an internal systems engineer role at a larger org. It can work out if you find the right opportunities!
Exalting_Peasant@reddit
That's great but also not the norm for entry level.
Rustyshackilford@reddit
😭 so true it hurts
TechTitus@reddit
Can confirm. Spent 5 years at an MSP and was doing tier 3 and SA work before leaving. I was making 34k before overtime/65k after overtime. I put my two weeks notice in when I took PTO over Christmas and the director called me that night saying "Hey, I just got your email...I figured we could discuss promotion when you get back". 😐
When people say temper you expectations...you need to temper, then double it.
Ferretau@reddit
I think this demonstrates how much they care about you as an employee when the only time they want to promote you is when your about to step out the door.
slashinhobo1@reddit
Tables only take you so far. We all had to start somewhere, very few started at google. You suffer for a year to get a huge stable increase getting anpther job.
It shouldn't be like that but workers before them and even myself didnt unionize for various reasons from increasing personal bottom line.
Myrandomthoughts@reddit
Jesus I made 50k in 2001 starting
Exalting_Peasant@reddit
Yeah not much has changed salary-wise, if anything it's gotten worse.
JM_Artist@reddit
MSP here, started at 18 in 2021 and now 21hr.
Kanibalector@reddit
You’ll make more waiting tables true but working for MSP is a great way to get yourself a ton of exposure, get a foot in the door and prep yourself for working for a real company.
I’ve worked for 13 years. I’ll probably die here. But it has been nice helping younger guys kickstart themselves into other locations.
Exalting_Peasant@reddit
Yeah for sure. With no experience it can be a good place to cut your teeth. Emphasis on can though. A lot of MSPs are run horribly and some guys come out with the worst habits and mindset ever, I call it the "band-aid" mentality.
stackjr@reddit
MSPs are such a hit and miss. I had one offer me a job a couple of years ago but they offered $15k less than I was making. Then, last year, I interviewed with a different MSP and they were offering $25k more than I make now (I didn't get that job).
TexasPerson0404@reddit
I was making 60k as an intern (Houston area). When I graduated I declined a 90k offer for a 110k one in another LCOL state. Wouldn’t even consider 50k unless I had genuinely zero skills.
Thecrawsome@reddit
There won’t be jobs for developers once this is all done. IT people will still have work.
We are the ones who are writing the agents and teaching people how to use AI for now
CyberInferno@reddit
I've got a friend whose son graduated last spring with a CS degree, and he's making $100k starting. He turned down a $70k offer for it. MCOL area.
Chaise91@reddit
Adding to this, I vote get the degree just for the potential connections. Most schools will have hook ups for job fairs and internships. Just getting familiar with the job market, recruiters, and the competition will help tons.
_SixFourThree_@reddit
I graduated with a CIS degree in 2014. My first job paid low-$30s per year. It was almost 10 years before I got to 6 figures at my next job.
grepsockpuppet@reddit
This
d3fd@reddit
Nope
nvmuskie@reddit
Won’t hurt. Won’t guarantee a thing. Hard reality of IT right now.
Metalcastr@reddit
The economy works in cycles, going into college now might be a good idea. I was able to miss a previous job market downturn by being in college, since downturns take 2+ years to resolve. By the time I graduated, jobs were available again.
As for Information Systems degrees, I feel they prepare you for a more diverse set of IT work than Computer Science degrees. However, each one has its advantages and disadvantages. An Information Systems degree, if it's still the same as it was back then, gives you various skills that translate to a more broad scope of IT work, such as System Administration. Computer Science is mainly programming, or at least all of the people I know with that degree ended up as programmers.
I did not want to be focused on programming, and although the Information Systems degree did include it, it also included a bunch of other interesting topics, including databases, etc. However, an advantage of a Computer Science degree is a faster salary progression, as programmers go through boom cycles and make bank. A disadvantage is layoffs proportionally affect programmers badly. On the flip side, programmers seem to always bounce back quickly when the job market improves. (I don't know the long-term effect of AI on programming jobs, however I do think they'll come back as AI code sucks). So having a more diverse set of skills with an Information Systems degree is helpful in certain situations.
However, what you end up doing, and your salary, is largely dependent on what fields you go into and study after college, no matter the degree. I can say from experience, and the experience of my friends, that being a specialist is more likely to make you more money, than being a generalist. Although in my opinion, generalists should be recognized more. It's a tremendous effort weaving diverse technology systems together and making them work, in our era of ever-increasing complexity.
texags08@reddit
Working on MS MIS now. Just finished some database clustering and NoSQL work. Onto Data Warehousing 👍🏻
wdietz8@reddit
For the most part, no. The cost of the degree will never pay off unless you become a high level executive. The degree will get you in the door of some companies that require it, but you can get entry level it roles and learn more than any school will teach you.
Technical_Rich_3080@reddit
What country are you asking about?
It is much different depending which country.
jmbre11@reddit
I have that it made zero impact on getting a job. Getting the next one and so on. It’s the now. 20 years experience And job hopping that brought pay to that level.
Main_Dust_1823@reddit
No. While my main job is as an HR Director, I've done many years as a high level IT guy (i've done it all) making big $$$. For the record, I have an English degree. What set me up was that I have a TON of experience with computers (hobby) since I was a kid and knew how to sell myself to companies that needed solutions.
iamatechnician@reddit
I have a BS in CIS and it won’t hurt. However, hiring managers (at least the good ones) will skim past the degree and focus more on if you have the interpersonal skills and the technical chops as they consider you for roles. You’re much more attractive of a candidate if you’re curious, able to build relationships with the people you support, deliver on projects, and work well with others on the team. Most of those skills are either natural or learned on the job, not taught in a classroom.
As others have said, it will take some time before you’re making 6 figures in one of these roles. It took me about eight years before I hit 100k, but I’m not the best negotiator. Your sales background may help you get there quicker, but you’ll still need to put in your dues in lower end helpdesk roles. Use that as an opportunity to learn everything and anything, find what interests you most, then pursue a more specialized career where you can grow into a senior level role. Best of luck to you.
aringa@reddit
The next thing you need is a job and experience.
Environmental-Ant814@reddit
To get hired, no. To make it out of lower tiers into real supervisor positions, yes.
PeakWattage@reddit
One of the longtime desktop engineers at my workplace got promoted to supervisor within a month of getting his BSIT degree. Oftentimes, a bachelor's degree is a hard requirement in big orgs for management.
Bob54548@reddit
This should be higher. You do not need a degree to break into IT or learn the technical stuff. However, a degree would be helpful for advancing out of the purely technical roles into director and senior director positions and knowing how to handle the business side of things. But then, you may as well go with a business degree and get some certs for the technical side of things.
uptimefordays@reddit
Entry-level jobs in the field increasingly demand relevant degrees, making a bachelor’s degree a worthwhile investment. However, it’s crucial to research the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ “how to become one,” “job outlook,” and “pay” data for computer occupations. For sysadmin specifically, it’s important to note that the job market has undergone significant changes over the past five to ten years. The roles of Network and computer systems administrators are declining as software developers focused on infrastructure automation (devops, platform engineers, and SREs) have reshaped the infrastructure landscape.
In light of these changes, I recommend pursuing a bachelor’s degree in computer science or engineering. These programs offer the most professional flexibility and provide a robust foundation of knowledge and skills that are highly valued in the technical field.
DEX_Nexthink@reddit
The issue is at entry level nobody is quite sure what is going to happen over the next few years. It used to be a solid thing to major in but AI is changing the landscape so fast. I wouldn't incur massive loans to do it, but if you can do it relatively cheaply having a degree never hurts.
TexasPerson0404@reddit
I accepted a 110k offer (systems administrator) 2 months before graduating with my CIS degree last December. I hustled pretty damn hard in college getting certs, doing projects, and working part time at the schools help desk.
Your salary expectations are achievable out of college but you need to set yourself apart.
Orangesteel@reddit
I spent six years in total at university. My deputy left school at 16. We are both now in different roles, but earn roughly the same. A degree definitely opened doors for me, but some good vocation certs can help patch that gap. I still think the academic knowledge I gained and learning to write reports put me in a great position. So I don’t regret my choice.
Kemaro@reddit
I started as an intern while getting a 2 year associates degree in “IT”. The internship did more for me than the degree. Got hired on after I graduated making mid 40s as t2 support (desktop tech basically). 12 years later I’m now an architect at the same company making 6 figures. Do whatever you can to get your foot in the door then be invaluable.
HsuGoZen@reddit
I wouldn’t get a bachelors, I’d just start taking cert exams
agentdurden@reddit
i dont think so
Ryebread095@reddit
If you can get the degree without going into serious debt, it could be useful. If you end up underwater in student debt though, it will be a long time before you can even tread water, let alone pay it off.
sixblazingshotguns@reddit
If you have the money for it, maybe. Definitely don’t go into debt for it. Those jobs you’re mentioning are the first ones to get cut so you’d have a target on your back. Stay at a job you like and coast. Without a pension you’ll be doing this 40+ years so don’t push yourself.
Least_Gain5147@reddit
I have a BS from 2000. I've been in IT since 1996. 10-20 years ago I'd have said yes, it helps. Today, no.
Miserable_Potato283@reddit
Talent and aptitude beats qualifications; professional or otherwise.
Responsible_Bag_2917@reddit
If you plan to stay at one company and work your way up from help desk you may be able to get away with not having a degree. If you want to job hop and maximize your salary every hop a degree will do that. The more boxes you check for HR the hiring salary you can negotiate even with less experience. So someone with 2-3 years experience, a degree, portfolio, and a few certs can job hop and get to $100k sooner than someone woth no degree, no certs, no portfolio and only experience
tbone0785@reddit
Work your way up in the car dealer industry. Get into the mgmt side. Way way more money to be made there than in the IT world.
intelpentium400@reddit
You know people buy cars online right?
cbowers@reddit
In certain countries where paper matters more than demonstrated skills. In Canada/US I have to say in my 18 years of hiring, we never once had the successful candidate have a CIS bachelors. If anything it made us mark harder... but they never demonstrated better knowledge or practical skills than those who put the time in other ways.
TheGoodspeed15@reddit
In IT no one really cares about degrees
They want experience
AsherTheFrost@reddit
And certifications
ShermansWorld@reddit
This. Then experience... Then degree.
The degree tells me you know or we're taught 'how' to learn and/or communicate.
The cert. tells me you have some sort of 'expertise' in a product or standard.
The experience gives me confidence you've actually done this before... Real world stuff.
Pick any two... You'll get hired.
Arudinne@reddit
I hired someone with Hyper-V certs once who couldn't make a VM in Hyper-V.
I should have fired him on the spot, but I really didn't want to have to go through the interviewing and hiring process again so I gave him access to our CBT nuggets account for training. He resigned after a week.
ShermansWorld@reddit
Good for you giving them a shot. But obviously they greatly exaggerated their skills and that's not right and not your fault. As I said... 'pick any two...' they had certs - what was the other criteria that they walked in with - experience or degree?
Arudinne@reddit
I don't remember much beyond that, it was like 4 years ago now. Just the not knowing how to make a VM part really stuck with me.
I figured out the basics of Hyper-V back on Server 2008 R2 on my own in a home lab. If you can read a fucking GUI you can figure it out and he couldn't manage even that much.
TarkMuff@reddit
You can resign just like that or was a fee incurred from giving him access to to CBT? I just looked it up it seems intuitive to create a vm there on windows
Arudinne@reddit
He left his laptop with the receptionist and sent me an email saying he resigned.
We have a CBT nuggets plan and add/remove people as needed. It's really not worth the effort of going after someone for whatever the per user cost is.
agoia@reddit
If it's a degree from mycomputercareers and a bunch of comptiaa certs, though...
RegisteredJustToSay@reddit
I agree with this if experience is just "years of experience" and some words on a CV, but if they've also released some relevant tools and have written articles about the topic or done conference talks... Yeah, screw the cert or education. Ultimately, employers want proof you're not just talk - there's a bunch of ways to achieve this.
TheCrimsonArmada@reddit
And tbh you can get by with certs
pinkycatcher@reddit
Disagree. I’ve had much better experiences with degree holding employees than ones who don’t. They generally bring a more holistic understanding of the world.
schizrade@reddit
I agree with this, especially with the younger crowd.
TarkMuff@reddit
Holistic?
awetsasquatch@reddit
The people in IT don't care about degrees, morons in HR do, so we have to play by their rules.
Moldy_Cloud@reddit
Yeah, experience is definitely more valuable than a degree. However, when hiring people who are green, I value soft skills and a willingness to learn a bit more.
Arudinne@reddit
One of our best help desk agents ever was hired with next to no IT skills other than having built a computer once.
Only reason he isn't employed with us anymore is he moved back to where his family was.
DarthPneumono@reddit
Skills can be learned, but curiosity, drive, and critical thinking cannot.
Zromaus@reddit
I have an on-site tech I've been trying to mentor from never having touched a computer aside from what school showed him.
The critical thinking part is key.. Not everyone has it.
techierealtor@reddit
Yup. I stand by everyone can do IT, but it depends on how much you want to do IT on how far you’ll progress. I’ve seen several L1/L2 lifers. They are the greatest because they know what they know, they don’t care about more, they show up and do their job. They won’t go anywhere but they are happy.
techierealtor@reddit
I started as an l1, transferred teams once, moved companies, after 10 years total I was a senior manager in charge of level 3, after being the sole level 3 tech.
zonz1285@reddit
I’d take someone with no college and a willingness to learn honestly. Every hire I get with a degree thinks they know more coming out of school than those of us without school and 20 years experience. Too much humbling a retraining needed after college.
ShermansWorld@reddit
Agreed... But experience is cumulative-ish... 1y, 2y... The value goes up... 10yr, 15yr ... I start to find some habits or old school that may not be relevant... Ya, maybe there's a 4th item .. soft skills/gusto.
jmmaac@reddit
Yea that’s cause they don’t have experience 😆
Moldy_Cloud@reddit
I’ll take someone with less experience and better soft skills and a willingness to learn over someone with lots of experience any day of the week.
SketchyTone@reddit
I quite literally got my start in IT when I was 18 while dog sitting because of my soft skills. I dog sat while I was doing communiyu college and someone reached out to dog sit. I actually had conversations about what he does for work, took good care of his house, took a little bit of extra interest in knowing my client and after my 2nd time dog sitting he asked if I was interested in a Help Desk role at his start up. I know people stuck in Help Desk for 10+ years because they just lack soft skills and the willingness to learn, very dense people who are then confused why they can't move up the ladder.
GloveLove21@reddit
HR departments care, sadly
jpnd123@reddit
Disagree, it's a competitive market and degrees will help get you in, will also help you get promoted
lia_mystt@reddit
Na hora de contratar não é bem assim kk
Dwokimmortalus@reddit
Generally true, unless government work is involved. Government LCATs are super obnoxious about education waterlines, and work experience substitutions are case-by-case. And of course certifications aren't accounted for at all.
Most very large companies I've worked for also have enforced education waterlines to hold C-suite roles regardless of experience.
When I was at MIT, the IT division had a standing policy that degrees weren't everything, and there were several paths to being an engineer or architect, or etc.; so we could prove suitability through a bunch of different methods.
dioxin-screes-01@reddit
This is very much wrong. The market has shifted a lot and I’ve found a great deal want a minimum a bachelors. 20, maybe even 10 years ago it generally didn’t matter but today I’ve found more often then not that it matters.
justaguyonthebus@reddit
But breaking into the industry is harder without the degree. And that's compounded when the job market is saturated. But it cycles.
So get a crap IT job (or two) for about 2-4 years and ride the wave until the market bounces back.
It took me 10 years to break 100k (with no degree), but now I'm overpaid with regular offers just sitting in my inbox.
hypernova2121@reddit
No one in the IT department cares about degrees
But the HR systems that will automatically filter out any resume without at least a bachelor's sure do
picardo85@reddit
Also one of the few areas you can get experience without a job. That in turn makes IT a pretty hostile environment to break into.
Nobody expects a fresh graduates of Accounting/finance to have much or any experience, but in IT it is expected.
So unless you want to work on private IT projects in your spare time, it's extra rough.
There are ofc exceptions out there with some hiring managers not expecting fresh grads to have that.
Shazam1269@reddit
True, but HR does the hiring and vetting of applicants, so many qualified, and often times better applicants will never get interviewed.
hihcadore@reddit
Not true. Big orgs have an HR department and having a degree gets you through the first check.
But yea the IT team won’t care.
CulpritBatches@reddit
This is so true, and when i read this in the past while getting the degree i doubted this. TBH, id say its like 35 percent degree and rest experience. Degree will get you in the door to an interview, but getting hired is from experience.
JustCallMeBigD@reddit
IT manager and high school dropout. Can confirm.
Datania@reddit
Tell that to HR.
93-T@reddit
This (mostly)
Then there’s operations which brings in inexperienced management all the time because of their degrees.
DGC_David@reddit
College is the only way to get real internships, the value is mostly in networking.
Adventurous_Ideal804@reddit
Unless you specifically want to work for an MSP, aim towards government jobs. Right now FBI, NSA, Secret Secret Service are all hiring. Also, look for smaller government bodies like local governments.
artano-tal@reddit
If I were you I would start looking for a job especially one with the government or a bank. These roles can help fund your degree while you work and let you build seniority.
MSPs may offer more opportunities but they are more volatile. I recommend any full time government position in any area. I do not mean government cybersecurity. Once you have it you can move laterally within the government.
artano-tal@reddit
If I were you I would start looking for a job especially one with the government or a bank. These roles can help fund your degree while you work and let you build seniority.
MSPs may offer more opportunities but they are more volatile. I recommend any full time government position in any area. I do not mean government cybersecurity. Once you have it you can move laterally within the government.
OkEssay4173@reddit
Back in the days there were only CS and CIS which is more towards IT management and business degrees. No cybersec/network/infra related degrees.
I would have taken the more technical degrees now
Plateau9@reddit
Nurp.
MadeADamnReddit@reddit
Don’t need a Degree
Ferretau@reddit
I doubt you'll ever see a return on your investment in time and money. At the moment the way things are going plumbers/electricians etc will earn more money in the future than the majority in IT, only the top 1% will be see 100K+ wages. Corp moved everything to lower labour cost countries so they could get things done cheaper and now they see the same opportunity with the AI/ML offerings. This is purely about bonuses for the executives and secondly shareholder returns.
MadCybertist@reddit
Soft skills are much more important getting into things I feel. Education helps but that drive, willingness to learn, curiosity, etc are really important.
I have a bachelors in exercise science to lead into physical therapy. Hated it. Decided to swap into tech field and taught myself everything. I’m a massive analytical thinker and a huge drive and curiosity.
I started in IT at $38k back in 2012. A late start as I was already 29. Next couple years I went up to about $45k. I switch jobs but stayed in IT and was making $55k. I didn’t love IT though and had been teaching myself software for a couple years. Now I work in robotics and automation doing software stuff for the last 6 years and I make $160k. All self taught but I’m a sponge even at 40+ now and I just live for this shit. I’m always learning and always tinkering.
FabulousVast350@reddit
Take a Tier 1 job and see if the company might can help pay for your Bachelor's. Some do. I agree with many comments here but eventually you will hit a wall for IT management. Tough to break in to Mgmt w/o a degree.
Panta125@reddit
Job market is terrrriibbbllleew rn... Even trade unions are getting busted... Get a degree in something medical. RN, radiology, ultra sound.....those are pretty safe.
EquivalentSilent776@reddit
You would be surprised how far soft skills like communication and your background in sales will get you in IT.
Many guys lack the social skills, make their weakness your strength and you’ll land somewhere a veteran will teach you hard skills on the fly.
I’ve personally proctored more than 30 people, some of them came from a cook position at an old folks home, and because they had good people skills grabbed certs and a good job faster than “qualified” guys that can’t hold a conversation
Snarky_Survivor@reddit
I dropped out after 2 years.
BootlegBabyJsus@reddit
It is if you want to get into leadership. If not, it’s a nice to have
espeequeueare@reddit
I have a CIS degree. I started on helpdesk a few years ago and system admin just over a year ago. It’s a good generalized degree for what you’re looking for I think.
Honestly, I learned more in 6 months on the help desk than 4 years in school. Since CIS was also generalized, I had classmates doing data analytics/cyber security/supply chain/general IT ops stuff.
I wouldn’t say it’s a hard requirement to have a degree, especially for T1/T2. But I think it would be an obstacle for you somewhere up the career ladder. Three of my coworkers took night classes for their degrees while they were working on help desk/desktop support. I would say at least aim for an associates. But I’m still early in my career, so take that with a grain of salt.
gregbutler_20@reddit
Not sure about now, but I got my bachelors degree in 2011 and didn't experience when I came out. My pay was $12 an hour before graduation. Then went to 18 after on my first job in restaurant IT. I worked that job for a year. I didn't have much luck finding jobs until I started using an IT staffing agency which helped find me jobs and get interviews. I have been with that company for 14 years now as helpdesk/system administrator. It took me about 10 years to pass the 100K mark as a salaried employee. I could have probably got there faster if I switched jobs, but I actually love where I work, so it balances out. It's possible you can start higher now adjusting for inflation, but the two best things I can recommend is to watch your spending on that degree (assuming you get student loans) and to try staffing agencies coming out of college rather than just blindly putting in job applications. Good luck.
Astral-lol@reddit
Graduated in December with a B.S in Information Systems Security, just landed first internal IT job (help desk) that pays 45k. I did have 4 years prior experience working at a computer repair shop.
Iwillcallyounoob@reddit
I moved to a big city and employment is very competitive. I didn't have a degree and hardly got any interviews for IT positions. I earned my Bachelors and then I started to receive calls and interviews. basically no one will contact you unless you have experience. they won't consider you if your resume has nothing to do with IT.
If you love it then do it. Money will be low in the beginning. always be doing new and fun things in a lab environment. from my experience if a potential employer is trying to really low ball you then its definitely not a place you want to work.
yeah, MSP are fucking exploitation. they are always hiring and firing. they sell their clients to bigger MSP's call it a merger and fire everyone. I fucking hate connectwise and I hate having to explain myself when my billable hours aren't exactly 8 everyday to some worthless middle manager.
find a chill manufacturing company or RV park in the beginning. you can relax and learn and then when you feel ready move on to something more challenging.
waxwayne@reddit
If I had resume with experience I’d take it over a BS. But if you have no experience a BS is important especially if you want to go into management.
SnooRadishes2625@reddit
Out of topic slightly but how does an associates degree work in the US? I’m located elsewhere and hence have no idea. I thought associates degree qualifies you for a job in the field of study, no? If that’s the case, you should be familiar with networking cocepts, risk evaluation, triage and other from your cybersecurity diploma. Is this not enough to break into IT?
FTR im about to start my tertiary program for Cybersecurity next year. Not exactly bachelors, but same tier where im from.
Medical-Ask7149@reddit
Yeah, you could go get a helpdesk job right now. Get your A+ Security+ and Network+. Get that level one helpdesk job. It will be 40-60k if you’re in the US. Then decide where you want to specialize. I recommend could architect but up to you if you want to go m365, security, networking. The bachelor will help so keep that up.
PaidByMicrosoft@reddit
Two of my three jobs explicitly stated that me having a bachelor's helped influence their hiring decision.
musiquededemain@reddit
You already have a degree. What does this bachelor's in CIS provide that you can't get from a home lab? the hands-on experience is incredibly valuable and definitely talking points to any recruiter or hiring manager. Also, what are your career goals? Sure, help desk and desktop support are entry level jobs but if you want to specialize in something (related to your associate's), why bother with help desk? Just build the home lab that is specific to the job you want.
theMightBoop@reddit
Eventually a bachelors is worth it. You should get it one day. Now is fine or you could start looking for a job now. But it’s a rough market right now but also, car sales ouch. I did that a long time ago and that was rough.
If it was me I would start working on a cert or two and then look for a help desk job.
Jodies-9-inch-leg@reddit
Good luck
AI already replaced entry level IT jobs
BrokenPickle7@reddit
I'm a high school drop out working as a system administrator and it manager, one of the guys working under me has his master's it IT.. So who knows where you'll end up
RCTID1975@reddit
It's not likely to get you a job on its own, but it'll set you apart from the other applicants that are similar.
On top of that, you should be learning soft skills that are difficult to pick up on the job.
Take advantage of classes like public speaking and project management as well as university resources like corporate connections, job placement, and internship assistance.
OkieKing@reddit
No, it is not. Do not get a degree for any reason except you find the topic interesting.
xSchizogenie@reddit
Nope
moron_68@reddit
The degree will satisfy the insane HR requirement for a job. Beyond that, no one cares about your PhD in basket weaving.
robbersdog49@reddit
What county are you in? We're in the UK and have just advertised for a junior IT technician on minimum wage. We had over 500 applications and the majority are graduates.
You need something other than a degree to stand out.
RiceeeChrispies@reddit
Sad thing about it, is that most of them would’ve been better off with an apprenticeship and no university.
Having a degree (in a related subject) now disqualifies them from an apprenticeship.
I’m super glad I looked at jobs during college/sixth form to see what employers were wanting. Experience wins every time.
Jealous_Crow1346@reddit
500? Rookie numbers. I hear of minimum 1000 applications for entry level roles.
VandyMarine@reddit
Join the military and pick an IT job. Will absolutely get you there.
fraghead5@reddit
I am older but I am the head of IT now and if I am looking at resumes a bachelors is not impressive to me.
Technical certifications are better than a bachelors and cheaper.
Pick a technology, Microsoft 365/azure, Amazon AWS, Google GCP and start looking at the various certifications tracks they offer. You can use a lot of those free training resources and YouTube and then the tests are normally about $100-200 and you will have industry certifications.
Phyxiis@reddit
As someone currently heavily applying to places, I would say yes for the sole purpose of having the bachelors checkbox on the hr system. I only have an AS in IT and have 14 years experience in IT past ~7yrs as a Sysadmin and a current CISSP and can’t even get a no thank you email. My assumption is the companies I’m applying only select if there is a bachelors yes checkbox. So that alone is worth it unfortunately in my eyes
aka_mrcam@reddit
I have an a Bachelor's degree in CIS. I got in the early 2005 while working a job in IT. I got for resume filler to eventually get a Corp. Sys admin job maybe eventually CTO.
Ended up going off on my own after my last job doing small business IT support. I got one job interview using the resume with that degree listed.
I have 6 more student loan payments for that one interview.
The one thing collage did do for me is force me out of my bad habit of procrastination and gave me self confidence from completing something difficult.
The tech classes were out of date while I was taking them. The business and management classes I took were the most useful for me since I already had the tech experience.
Siritosan@reddit
10 years and I only made it to 55,000. If you like it just do a few certs and hit the market it will help a bit but market is tuff.
slayermcb@reddit
Not sure if its still viable but I got my A+ and an associates degree to get my foot in the door. Worked my way up from helpdesk to Director in 12 years. Unless I go corporation or Governemnt I doubt I'll need to go back. Time in means a lot more to most orgs that dont use death by bureaucracy but YMMV depending on the places you choose.
Content_Injury_4821@reddit
To be honest, it doesn’t worth it! it is extremely hard to find a high paying job right after graduation! I am close 90k after 8 years of experience and masters degree in IT.
teffaw@reddit
So I'm very jaded on University, so my opinions on the value of the degree are low. HOWEVER, there is one specific area where they excel, and it is particularly helpful during tough job markets. It's going to entirely depend on you though. Network. Network. Network. Help every professor. Go to every fucking event. Befriend the entire faculty. Do every internship you can. The truth is no one will care what you learned - it's largely not job relevant anyways. Everyone will care who you know and what they say about you.
malikto44@reddit
Seconded. This is how I have a job with my CS degree. For someone at a uni, do internships, get to know people, work with professors, work with people, dodge the academic drama, and try to find a company that goes from internship to actual job.
Otherwise, the CS degree is all but worthless, as most places use time spent in the field as an alternative. The exception is in some government, and educational work, where the degree is still a must.
TronicCronic@reddit
Certs before degrees. Get a degree once you're at a company that's helping to pay for it. While a help desk gig can help you with logical troubleshooting, depending on what you want to focus on, I'd avoid it. Try temp agencies for refresh projects to get in the door. You may also find an access management or cyber security entry gig that way. It'll pay better than help desk and give you a major leg up.
Renekling@reddit
The market is absolutely terrible right now, we went through 2 rounds of layoffs, and I reluctantly survived.
From my experience for the first 2 months after college I was panicking because I applied 5-10 places everyday and no one wanted entry level IST (Information Science and technology) bachelor degree. Finally landed at a terrible place that actually accepted lots of people fresh out of college salary was not ideal, but I needed experience.
1st year pretty good in learning and absorbing everything, 2nd year laid off due to covid. Came back on and was eager to work, within that year coming back, I was promoted from entry level helpdesk technician to senior helpdesk technician, paybump was alright. Coworker left for better company and they got my a job, salary increase was +50% my base salary, so it was a no brainer to take it. I've been at my current job for 4 years now?
1st year was a junior infrastructure engineer, 2nd to now I have been a network engineer, salary is good and "close to 100k". I will say, for my first job because of that specific company having a bachelor's degree did help. but all IT bosses of the various departments did not have IT degrees. one had a musical arts degree, my boss was a mechanic, another was a teacher, etc....
largos7289@reddit
BS is a good start to qualify you for IT jobs. Doesn't mean you'll get it. but you'll qualify for it.
LRS_David@reddit
That kind of salary goes to folks out of MIT, Sanford, etc... And who have interned summers and maybe a semester or two at various places like Apple or Google.
But those situation are in decline due to AI coding.
Look at what Meta and MS just announced in terms of layoffs. I'm sure some of those were not pulling their weight. But you're now in competition with folks with similar degrees and 1 year or more of experience.
Master-IT-All@reddit
Nah, that's a standard wage for a Senior tech at a large MSP. I was earning $100,000 CAD plus bonuses in 2018.
I do make a lot less than that now because I was tired of large MSP life and wanted to work with small business again. I'd rather be told no we can't afford that by a business owner than try to work through the politics of an org with 20 idiots that all hate each other.
This is a job at the company I worked for back then with a salary range that goes over 100K: https://jobs.lever.co/lvs1/6ebcbf30-0995-42e4-afc1-71fc6ba9738f
LRS_David@reddit
I was referring to people straight out of school.
Princess_Fluffypants@reddit
It’s not worth the money that it will cost you.
You’d be vastly better served by brute forcing you way into the very lower bottom rungs and working some kind of helpdesk role for an MSP for a while.
dude_named_will@reddit
I'm going to say "yes" if for no other reason than to get your foot in the door. I think anyone who can get a CompTIA certification would be fine in an IT position, but I know my job listed a 4-year bachelors even though I am hardly using much outside of my CompTIA certifications.
baitnnswitch@reddit
If you finish your bachelors make sure to grab as many internships as you can get or join the college library's helpdesk team - the value of continuing on with your bachelors is likely getting that first bit of experience even more than saying you got a degree
Spectremax@reddit
I would say, not if you are paying for college yourself. It is more economical to teach yourself or do some focused programs or classes that involve lab work. Most of the real learning is done after you are hired anyway. And level 1 help desk doesn't always require a lot of technical knowledge, more people/communication skills.
Away_Chair1588@reddit
Try to get into that helpdesk role before you graduate, even if it's as an intern.
That internship will get you further than the degree itself. The degree is only good for getting past HR filters.
Master-IT-All@reddit
It won't hurt, but it also won't help as much as experience.
So you'll have to start at the bottom with a help-desk no experience needed job. And you will make a lot less than you do now selling cars. At least for five to ten years before you get close to that salary (baring luck). Minimum anyone willing to pay over 100K is going to ask for 5 years of senior level experience.
The only way to go faster is to go deep special on some product and be an SME in it. So if you focused on Dynamics 365 you might get to 100K quicker. But would be stuck in that role.
upperplayfield@reddit
I have 0 degree. Making 200,000. Spend 4 years in the trenches, not in a classroom.
Famous-Ad2105@reddit
You only have 4 years experience and your making $200k?
upperplayfield@reddit
No, I don't see where I said that. I have 12. I'm saying, you'll make a better career by spending 4 years working than 4 years in a classroom leaving debt and no experience.
Normal_Choice9322@reddit
Idk how to advise anyone in tech going forward. We are at the crux of a massive shift and it's anyone's guess what will be good end of quarter let alone two years down the line
Khizer23@reddit
Yes, I have a bachelors in CIS and I graduated last year. I make 6 figures as a Network Engineer and on track to 120-140k by the end of this year if I play all my cards right.
MarkH3326@reddit
A degree will not help much breaking into the industry.
Experience and maybe getting some initial simple certifications will help.
Your pay expectations may be set a bit high. I have been in the industry for 35 years and still do not make six figures.
You will want to network with other pros.
Join LinkedIn and put a really good resume in there.
Join SpiceWorks and participate, p[articipate, participate.
Do some volunteer work and some no-pay work to get your feet work.
And keep plugging away.
Get a job coach / advisor.
Check out Rochester Works.
Hope that helps.
fatasian22@reddit
I have a CIS degree and I think it’s worth it. It automatically filters you out in the HR system and will give you a better chance at landing an interview. However you cannot solely rely on the degree to get you the job. You need to know tech, have good peoples skill and be able to quick thinking troubleshooting skills.
floatingby493@reddit
Yeah for sure, I got my bachelors in IS and I was able to skip the help desk and went straight to tier 2 support. It’s definitely not needed though to get an IT job but it does help.
Regular-Nebula6386@reddit
I’m in Canada, working in a government office. When I need to hire IT personnel, I have to go through HR. IT analysts (sysadmins, dbas, etc) belong to a pay band that won’t allow to even consider a candidate with no bachelor degree. So, if you have the degree, at least the door won’t be closed for you. It’s unfortunate but with the way things are going, it is going to become a norm.
Send_heartfelt_PMs@reddit
You should check out WGU (Western Governors University). They're online, fully accredited, work with industry partners, as part of the curriculum you gain real industry certs, and you can finish at your own pace (so you can do it in less than 2 years if you dedicate yourself to it, or take longer if life you don't have enough spare time and have to work full time etc while going). They're also pretty reasonably priced.
Downside is that it's online and you need to be dedicated to doing the work and keeping on track
I got an Associates in Computer Science from my local community college, and a Bachelor's in Information Systems from WGU
They have a handful of tech degrees, but it sounds like you'd be interested in their BS in IT degree
(No, I don't work for them and I'm not a bot or anything, I just feel like they're a good option)
CulpritBatches@reddit
Id find a crappy IT job. A degree will get you an interview, but experience will get you hired.
The_NorthernLight@reddit
Honestly, not really worth it.
ChumleyEX@reddit
Look at certs that would help your career. See if that's a path you would rather take. Come up with some projects you can share in an interview. Ive interviewed a ton of people for entry level jobs (tier1/tier2) for one of the largest IT companies and never even looked at their education.
If you can talk the talk and walk the walk, you'll get a chance somewhere. Then it's on you to go forward. I didn't think any of my piers (tier3) that I work with have a degree. We also don't have that student loan debt.
After your get a real job, have them pay for your education if that's what you want.
kingkongqueror@reddit
Without experience, relevant certifications in what you want to do matters more IMO. Say you want to get into AWS Cloud Services, pick a lane you want to eventually specialize in and take certifications related to those. Once you get in a company in a junior role, take advantage of training credits for more advanced courses/certs. Try to look for a long standing issues or pain points in your department and see what you can do to improve or entirely remove it say via automation for example. Good luck.
IsabellaHughes527@reddit
Your sales background is a hidden advantage
davidokongo@reddit
Knowledge is the king of all in IT. Experience + analytic mind will open doors to you.
High school diploma here, been in IT for over 15yrs. Makin upper 150k. Started from help desk to a senior position.
OmegaHenron@reddit
Unless you want to be in middle to upper management or become top level leadership - I don’t think majority of companies value degrees for technical job roles, not in my experience (10 years experience, sophomore college dropout)
This isn’t to say a degree is useless. It helps with getting recognized for job opportunities. Dependent on the school and program they might have great intro’s to internships and networking abilities.
Bob54548@reddit
This right here. A degree will definitely help with reaching more senior levels but isn't much use in a technical role.
Tricky_Fun_4701@reddit
I've had a 35 year career... and I tend to recommend people avoid IT as a career... the industry almost functions through automation. And it's going to get worse.
So unless you are a very high level engineer finding work can happen... but the advancement is not there. And eventually you may be homeless career wise.
I usually recommend going into another type of engineering for people with IT type brains.
However, if you want to go into IT your best paths are:
Avoid:
Look for:
But really... help desk? Bad place to start. Because the career path is dying,
AdInevitable8483@reddit
Build your skills
GreyBeardEng@reddit
Yes. Any other questions?
Used_Gear8871@reddit
You associates is enough. Add in a few ISC2, CompTIA, AWS/Microsoft/GCP certs and you’re set.
Apply for small companies or contracting companies. These are companies listed as procurement agencies for the federal, state, and local governments (assuming you are in the US). Your community college should be assisting you with job readiness and internships. I’d also recommend applying for roles at your college and others.
OneEyedC4t@reddit
i would get experience and certifications first
texcleveland@reddit
That’s what I have but I graduated over two decades ago. I also have a degree in mathematics.
OutrageousPenalty775@reddit
It's better than not having a degree, obviously, but it doesn't really help getting the job. I would focus on going to a school that can help you get an internship and on getting some certs, like CompTIA or Microsoft. Maybe try getting an IT job at the college you are attending.
djaybe@reddit
No.
fatty1179@reddit
Certs and degrees are there as an HR filtering mechanism. It matters more to keeping the job that you have “soft” people skills, can communicate, are responsible, and can troubleshoot
Aaronspark777@reddit
If you feel like you need that structured education path to get started then yes. Otherwise focus on getting some CompTIA certs and a basic help desk job. Regardless starting pay ain't gonna be that great, but eventually you'll pick up on something you want to specialize in.
93-T@reddit
It could be but from my experience, the degree only matters when you’re moving up. Tech is one of those areas where experience will shine over everything else. I started out at my company upgrading their printers. They gave me a laptop and saw I was good with communication and could learn pretty fast. A month later I was on their L2 help desk. 3 years later I was hired into the company full time and they removed the requirement for a bachelors degree so I could be hired. Your degree will help you regardless but right now with how the market is, experience is going to be your best friend. Buy some hardware and build something that you can show off on your resume. Hiring managers won’t even care about your degree when they see that. All of the AI resume screeners will though
computersandother@reddit
If you want to make $100k+ you'll probably need at least a doctorate.
Surfin_Cow@reddit
Gatekeeping IT is wild.
computersandother@reddit
I'm not "gatekeeping IT" by providing a shitty/snarky answer to a low effort post. The information OP is looking for can easily be found by Googling, looking at the requirements in job postings, and by actually applying for jobs with their existing education and seeing if they can find something.
Happy_Kale888@reddit
WTF in what world 6 figures for years with only a 2 year degree (not even associates).
Front-Check-6277@reddit
all I have is a bachelors in IT and Sec+. I make over $100k and I'm only 4 years in
BearysWorkRedditName@reddit
lol, I'm on track to break 100k this year. I got an Associate Degree from a local tech school 3 years ago. No previous experience.
stackjr@reddit
Yeah, our network engineer doesn't have a degree and he makes $110k (and we live in a LCOL area).
stackjr@reddit
Lol. What? That's not anywhere even remotely accurate.
computersandother@reddit
Dumb questions get dumb answers.
Your answer to his question is obviously more accurate.
WiskeyUniformTango@reddit
I make 100k with a BS from a university family guy makes fun of.
After 5-10 years experience the degree doesnt matter unless you are trying for a VP or higher level. Then a Masters is a big plus.
CodeJack@reddit
On which planet?
Hg-203@reddit
I have something like a CIS degree which was really a little bit more then a double minor in business and CS.
CS degrees tend to be more learning how to program. While learning how to program isn't required for IT. The more we run into scripting and infrastructure as code. The more I am happy I have a good foundation on how to code well. I also took advantage of my program to take every networking, OS, and database type of course I could take. As that had a direct impact on what I was going to do.
TechFiend72@reddit
It depends on what you want to do. Experience is mostly what matters. Certifications is what gets you in the door, not degrees. If you want to go into management in the future, a degree is useful.
GardenWeasel67@reddit
That was exactly my path, but I graduated 30 years ago.
secondhandoak@reddit
just get a job in IT and stop wasting time with schools
Practical_Shower3905@reddit
No.
... you don't want to work for companies that cares about education in IT. Worst place there is to work in our field.
jaredthegeek@reddit
I got my IT related degrees after I was already in IT.
plump-lamp@reddit
The difference is how good the school is at helping you find internships. Internships and entry level help desk are your target to start.
vechloran@reddit
I think in my almost 20 year career, the amount of co-workers with actual IT degree's is in the 1%... Lots of journalism, english, and psych majors, heck I have an Asian studies degree myself. The main thing is that all of us were nerdy in various ways, I got a minor in CS and worked help desk at the college computer lab my whole time there. I would say if you go for the degree, try and find something IT related to work at while there, the experience will be worth far more starting out than a degree, but the degree could help you rise above help desk and find your niche quicker.
Tr1pline@reddit
Any IT degree is fine since the electives are shared and you'll be learning a little bit of everything.