What's got people upset is during the initial implementation and later mandate the FAA promised ADS-B would not be used for commercial purposes and is now being used for commercial purposes.
If you landed there and that airport had landing fees, you owe the airport money. I hate fees. And vector doesn't ONLY use adsb. Vector is just the shitty vehicle airports use to recover their already implemented fees. If the use of adsb for fee collection is banned they'll rely on video cameras alone. You'll still get a bill. And I'll still think it's bullshit. And it will still be a legitimate bill.
If at all possible I refuse to land anywhere with fees.
I remember when I was the chief pilot at my flight School, I would get letters from the NIMBYs complaining about aircraft noise because of the IFRs departures. That shit went into the trash immediately every time.
Carbon offset schemes are all scams dreamed up by Wall Street to separate people from their money. And I believe climate change/warming is real and undeniable
One of the biggest scams is large, private nature preserves (that are permanently prohibited from development anyway) will sell 'pledges' to never develop. Companies buy these to say they are offsetting, but not so much as a blade of grass is planted.
That's completely different though. What they are talking about is mandating pilots purchase and install an ADSB transmitter for safety purposes in their aircraft and then turning around and using that technology to charge them fees, which disincentivizes them to use the transmitter for safety purposes when using it can now come with landing fees.
People charging for flight tracking on sites like FlightAware, FlightRadar24, ADSBX, etc has no impact on the pilot who was mandated to add equipment into their aircraft.
Tracking sites like flightaware definitely have some impact on the pilot. The pilots privacy has been seriously reduced, and the flights are logged in perpetuity.
This is just a new mechanism that continues to shift that balance
I broadcast as anonymous & instructed the FAA to not publish my name/address including my airplane registration info. FU for those who use adsb for commercial billing.
Looks like Vector's time may be limited. Such a slimy business model to use a system that was invented for safety, to bill people. I'm all for airports collecting fees as required to keep them open, but its clear no one in the community is supportive of using ADSB for it.
Because using ADS-B data to charge fees encourages people who don't want to pay fees to turn off their ADS-B before landing, right when it is most useful.
I don’t quite understand the outrage tbh. I think pilots who try to avoid paying landing fees are slimy. Most mom & pop fields can’t justify installing and maintaining camera systems. ADSB allows them an easy way to get what they have rightfully earned. I get that it wasn’t its intended remit but I still don’t see why people are this level of outraged by it.
Its not the charging of landing fees that is the issue, its the use of ADS-B data that is the issue. When you take a safety system and use it to charge fees, people will intentionally disable their ADS-B just to save a few bucks on a landing fee, which degrades the effectiveness of the system.
If people are willing to simultaneously breach their contract with the airfield and break federal regs to save a few bucks they need to find another hobby. That’s outright shitty airmanship.
Call it whatever you want, doesn't change the fact that people will do it. There is already tons of airspace where you don't even legally need ADS-B out, so its not like the airport doesn't have other ways to bill landing fees. All they have to do is set up a camera.
Yeah they do. Saw a demonstration from them at an airport manager conference. They’re popular for requesting funds from the FAA based on traffic, nobody was really talking about using them to bill pilots.
You’re all for public airports collecting fees? Really? I have a real problem with that considering they are federally funded.
Private airports can do what they want but no public airport should be allowed to charge us fees or landing fees
Public airports, even those that receive federal grant money, still need revenue and make efforts to be self sustaining. Federal money is mostly given for capital improvements, not operating cost. Plus, the airport still has to cover 10% of capital costs when the FAA gives the other 90%. Lots of airports get by with fuel flowage and lease revenues to cover those operating costs, but keeping the lights on isn’t free.
Many small airports take money from the county/municipality’s funds, but the FAA’s grant assurances discourage this as a permanent solution.
Federal funding doesn't cover anywhere close to all expenses for public airports. Most GA airports are in a perpetual state of constantly fighting for funds to stay alive.
There's a difference between a publicly owned airport and a privately owned, public-use airport. While the FAA offers some airport funding, it is typically used for infrastructure projects, not operating expenses.
My home airport is owned by the neighboring city, which is among the poorest in my state. Do I love flying? Yes. Do I love free stuff? Also yes. Do I think one of the poorest cities in my state should subsidize my recreational flying? No. So if that meant they had to charge me a reasonable landing fee, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it.
They need to start pulling funding from airports charging for landings on GA. There are a couple in my area and people outside the Mode-C are shutting off their ADS-B Out. Better yet we have a lot of schools in the area so near misses have skyrocketed lately.
Is there anything actually illegal about turning off ADS-B when approaching a Vector airport? Assuming it’s outside of relevant airspace, etc.
It would be dumb and increase risk, but ignoring that - can they get you for anything other than the careless/reckless catch all?
It is illegal to turn off ADSB in a plane that is equipped with it per 91.225(f). Now, if you have a circuit breaker that keeps tripping under certain conditions, how will the A&P diagnose the problem?
I legitimately have trouble with my uavionix adsb out. It seems to work 95% of the time, but reception range seems to be between 1nm and 10nm for aircraft or ground stations.
The faa public performance tests show that it works fine until signal is out of range. Changing coax cables, antenni, and increasing the supply voltage from 12 to 24 have done nothing. I sent 2 e-mails to uavinix a few months apart 3 years ago and i'm beginning to think they may not respond in a timely manner.
I haven't gotten any vector bills yet however.
The FAA doesn't need to prove anything to anyone in order to take administrative action against you. They're not a criminal court. If they think it's more likely than not that you did it intentionally, they can take action.
Yes. [14 CFR 91.225(f)](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/part-91/section-91.225#p-91.225(f)):
> Except as prohibited in paragraph (h)(2) of this section, each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times
There's a couple exceptions for when authorized by the FAA or ATC.
The FAA could just pull back federal funding and grants to any airport using ADS-B data to bill pilots. This would put a stop to the practice pretty darn quick!
Friendly reminder that Vector has no authority to bill you. When they send you an invoice, use it as toilet paper. They can’t put a lien on your plane, they can’t disable your adsb, they can’t suspend your registration, and Kissimmee airport won’t ban you from the premises.
They never asked permission, they just started billing. Their own system sucks, too. Remember that time united (and others) got invoices for thousands of dollars every time they departed 18R at MCO and made a right turn out? Yeah. Vector forgot to make sure you actually landed at Kissimmee, not just flew over.
Even if they do, a collections agency typically doesn’t have any more authority or legal rights than vector themselves. They’re just better at being annoying.
> Kissimmee airport won’t ban you from the premises.
>
> They never asked permission, they just started billing.
They were presumably directed/contracted by Kissimmee to start billing right?
If you do pay, send a check for a few cents under or over the correct amount; will probably cost them more to handle than the landing fee is.
To me it’s part about the technology but mostly about landing fees just being a bad idea. Having a pilot make a landing decision based on anything other than safety of flight is risky. We need the FAA to ban all landing fees. Ramp fees, handling, etc - fine, but landing itself should never cost money.
That’s a good place to start. It inherently pushes people to switch off their ADSB or just avoid select airports/areas. Vector is a garbage company that’s just preying on blind compliance, which is a whole other matter.
In any case I think long term more airports will become pay to play, but I hope they find a more legitimate way of doing that. The national airspace system is paid for with fuel tax and needn’t be paid for with double jeopardy.
C'mon, FAA. Are we going to wait for a midair where one of the involved aircraft was equipped with a transponder that mysteriously stopped working in the vicinity of a Vector airport?
Now is the time to put a stop to this ADS-B misuse.
It's capitalism. Separating you from your money and reducing your freedom are always the intended use. The engineers of the tools of dystopia are just behind the curve.
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