Porsche’s Profits Fell 93%, So It’s Selling Bugatti And Rimac

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Negative_Acadia6554@reddit

Porsche snob here. Fuck them.

Porsche pricing starts creeping into Ferrari, Lamborghini, and McLaren territory, dealers are still playing allocation games and adding markups.

On top of that, the heavy push toward EVs feels out of step with what a lot of enthusiasts actually want. It clashes with the traditional appeal of sports cars, and just adds to the disconnect.

/end rant.

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lordtema@reddit

And they are selling just about every single 911 and GT3 that is available, even with the price increases.

Yeah as a lifelong Porsche fan boy I can't help but feel like people finally realized just how good porsches are.

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davewritescode@reddit

The Porsche market will collapse eventually. Right now a GT3 is the influencer car of choice, resale prices are extremely healthy which reduces cost of ownership.

This kind of car market will continue to rise until the bottom falls out and it will be brutal.

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strangebrew3522@reddit

This kind of car market will continue to rise until the bottom falls out and it will be brutal.

I don't believe it though. People have said this about everything, from the general stock market, to housing and to cars. Somehow the money still flows.

Abba_Fiskbullar@reddit

Rolexes and other luxury watches were super inflated because the dealer model made them ideal for money laundering. I think that luxury car transactions aren't typically cash like Rolex consignment sales.

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CreamCheeseClouds811@reddit

a GT3 is the influencer car of choice

litlron@reddit

It's a flex car that isn't going to bankrupt you if something goes wrong

The people who buy cars to flex aren't thinking about that. See: Mclaren and Range Rover owners.

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Bonerchill@reddit

They have been good since the 1950s. You’d have to live under a rock to not know how good they were.

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AtomWorker@reddit

Porsche has always made great cars and they’re full my personal favorite but let’s be honest here: they’re just a status symbols. The wealthy are just like the plebs, flocking to whatever is currently en vogue.

Most consumers lack the insight and nuance to appreciate what makes anything special. They just gravitate towards whatever garners maximum social prestige or befits their inflated sense of self, even if subconsciously. It’s like how suddenly everyone decided they needed Canada Goose coats or some other shit that randomly starts trending.

That’s why Porsche can happily jack up prices and dealers charge premiums on top of that. As long as the zeitgeist is strong they’ll keep getting away with it.

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xj98jeep@reddit

I have one tweak, they are unbelievably good cars that have turned into status symbols. There's honestly no other car that you can comfortably drive to work every day and confidently track every weekend with minimal issues on either end. And you can also buy wherever on the daily driver/track monster spectrum you want.

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Porshuh@reddit

There's honestly no other car

Actually there's literally dozens of models of car made in the last decade that fit your description, Porsche buyers are just riding the 2010s petrolicious instagram hype wave.

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cpxchewy@reddit

Most of them have flaws from my experience.

So far from my experience of owning:

GR86/BRZ - Engine oil starvation issue, any track days void warranty.
GR Corolla - diff overheating and overall not a great track car. Limp modes way too easily.
ND Miata - You need a roll bar which makes daily driving crashing much more riskier for head injuries. Otherwise this is actually one of the few out of the box that's great.
F87 M2 - OG needs cooling mods because it pulls timing so often (this is my track car). M2C is slightly better but both eats tires like breakfast without huge negative camber/camber plates.
G87 M2 - Way too heavy and eats tires like nothing. This is a good choice tbh for casual track drivers but when you get to the run groups I'm in they start to have problems due to weight.
Camaro ZL1 - Okay this is actually pretty good. Also too heavy in comparison. Too bad this isn't sold anymore.

I think the best dual duty car out there in the past decade is still the 718 GTS/GT4. Both are reliable enough for track days and daily driving and the main thing that I felt was key is that Porsche warranty covers track use as long as you follow track maintenance recommendations while Toyota and BMW will try to weasel themselves out if there's any proof you drove it outside of legal limits.

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BudgetHelper@reddit

G87 M2... getting crashed because of ICE mode.

Can you elaborate on this?

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cpxchewy@reddit

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/ice-mode-defeat/279721/page1/

It’s when the abs module freaks out and thinks you’re stuck on ICE and actually prevents you from braking.

Porsche has always made great cars

No they haven't. Early 2000s they had some bad cars.

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bc10551@reddit

I feel like you have to factor price into measuring how good something is too though. A base model Carrera if you want any decent creature comforts is nearing 170-180k without an lsd even and that's just kind of pathetic imo

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TotalEmployment9996@reddit

Just terrible value at that price. Buy a z06 with the hard top convertible and you can shit all over basically every 911 trim except the RS

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bc10551@reddit

Yeah I'd do that too but I still haven't gotten to test drive one first. Only argument for the 911 is you might get back what you paid before taxes and fees when you sell imo

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Witherino@reddit

people finally realized just how good porsches are

ugfish@reddit

The 911 is not what keeps the lights on.

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3Mtibor@reddit

The reason they’re selling every 911/GT3 available is because they decide how many are available.

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Noobasdfjkl@reddit

And they are selling just about every single 911... that is available

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ruturaj001@reddit

Frankly, I want them to make profit on EVs, let badge snob people buy those instead of 911 (non GT variants) becoming more and more a commuter or luxury car. Let EVs and/or SUVs keep lights running and they make Boxster and Cayman again, focus on more playfulness (lighter cars, even with less power, smaller etc) and making them slightly affordable staringmid 50s. Have less variants of 911. The car has gotten big and heavy.

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collegeqathrowaway@reddit

To be fair, I never liked Porsche before the rebrand. I thought the panamera looked like a beached whale. Their coupes and SUVs really never did it for me. Then they designed the Taycan and new Panamera body and I’m finally getting onboard with it.

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foxymophadlemama@reddit

the panamera didn't look great, but seeing the wing fold up into position gets me weirdly excited.

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braytag@reddit

Old Topgear on the Panamera was chef's kiss!

"Best thing about driving the Panamera is, you can't see how ugly it is."

(Or something like that.)

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DanGleeballs@reddit

I’m even liking the new Cayenne EV. My dream car right now.

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thebongofamandabynes@reddit

The Macan EV in that light mauve color fuckkkk meeeeeeeeee.

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DanGleeballs@reddit

Yes. Hated the last Macan, love the new one. Would actually consider it.

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budgefrankly@reddit

the heavy push toward EVs feels out of step with what a lot of enthusiasts actually want. It clashes with the traditional appeal of sports cars

More than half of Porsche's sales are SUVs....

The peculiar problem facing Porsche is that it is essentially a mass market brand pretending to be a boutique sports-car brand.

However EU legislation is forcing a decision., after 2035 you can be a boutique manufacturer of ICE sports-cars and GTs selling fewer than 5000 units a year, or you can be a mass manufacturer of electric cars of all kinds.

Porsche has yet to figure out what to do here. More worryingly, they and the broader VW group seem incapable of making electric drive-trains of the calibre of Tesla, Lucid or (recently) BMW.

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nickl630@reddit

Porsche is the Rolex of the car world now. Used to be Ferrari but now it's just countless GT3's at shows "flexing" how much ADM they paid. It's a lifestyle brand.

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There's sun in Michigan?

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Sarniezz@reddit

Ferrari is another level and always has been.

It was. For no good reasons, really. Porsche realized people were willing to pay Ferrari money for their top line cars. It's not rocket science.

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guisar@reddit

Ferrari is a separate lifestyle but Porsche are better cars (separate from the image). Depends on what you’re buying a car for.

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CubanLinxRae@reddit

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Multifaceted-Simp@reddit

More than ten years makes it a different Porsche dealership

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FullofLovingSpite@reddit

I needed front brakes for my 996. I called the dealership and it was 2600 for the front. 2600 for the back. That's about a quarter of the value of the car. I got the fronts done for half that at an iindependent shop. It's hard not to tell the company to go fuck themselves when they're just being greedy dicks.

"Porsche recommends you replace the entire car after one year of limited use."

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PRSArchon@reddit

Wtf are you on about. Nobody services a 30 year old car at the dealership and then expects it to be the same price as an indy.

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FullofLovingSpite@reddit

Look at all those emotions! So upset.

People like you are the worst for the brand. You take it back to the porcupine days. It's embarrassing for you, if only you noticed.

If you were ever able to get past your ego and out of your bubble of ignorance, you would know that the 996 gets the classic discount at dealerships. You can call Porsche of Beverly Hills to confirm yourself.

I can't imagine a crappier life than to be this upset that someone has an older car. Just straight loser level. Was it inherited? Do I buy them cash and resell? Am I a collector with a turbo and a GT2? You don't know shit.

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PRSArchon@reddit

I know they get classic discount, why would thst be just as cheap as an indy?

You really feel personally attacked rofl

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FullofLovingSpite@reddit

You called me a liar and now you're saying they gave me high quotes to not work on it?

Whatever, dude. You don't know what you're talking about and are wasting my time. I doubt you even own a normal car at this point. Everything of yours is probably a stolen photo, photoshopped, or ai.

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DaggumTarHeels@reddit

the heavy push toward EVs feels out of step with what a lot of enthusiasts actually want.

That's just long-term planning. Otherwise you end up like Dodge.

CubanLinxRae@reddit

I mean hey finances are important of course but you know if you’re the type to agonize over it and post on a car subreddit you may owe it to yourself. In an uncertain world you’ll certainly enjoy the car you love

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NattyB0h@reddit

I went with a 981 boxster and I'm happy with my choice. 718 might be newer but I think the previous gen is not a bad option

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Kraven_Lupei@reddit

I considered it but I couldn't really find many 981's that weren't already similar price to the 718, and in that vein it was more tempting to get just a newer model year in general for less age in components/etc.

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AMGLover2024@reddit

exactly

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Sarniezz@reddit

Porsche pricing starts creeping into Ferrari, Lamborghini, and McLaren territory

Their cars are as good (if not better, in some cases) than all of those brands. That's a dumb argument.

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Killbot_Wants_Hug@reddit

I like cars, but don't have first hand experience with Ferrari levels of cars, Lotus is the closest I've come.

But the Ferrari/Lamborghini level of car tends to make you make real compromises. They might have insane performance specifications, but their maintenance, lack of space, and other things tends mean you're making some trade offs. And thus they work much better as secondary cars.

Porsche offered extremely high performance without having the insane trade offs that super cars had. And while normal porsches might not have any insane spec to brag about that a super car has, the reality is their specs were extremely well balanced which means good drivers could really push them.

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CarsAreRad@reddit

I love hearing this from a Porsche fan because it’s the damn truth in my mind the heirarchy for luxury/exotics is like (opinion based) Acura > Lexus/Merc/BMW/Audi > Porsche > Ferrari/Lambo/Super Car

Obvious didn’t list stuff like Alfa and Lotus but you get the idea.

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QZRChedders@reddit

I’ve always heard that if you love BMW steering (which I do) you’ll love Porsche because it’s that but better but after a few test drives in friends Porsches (nothing crazy but 911 and cayman) I was still a little bit disappointed. And for what they paid for them, the amount of blank buttons or clearly missed extras it felt really insulting to pay that much and still be reminded you in fact did not spend enough

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SquareBlueberry12@reddit

Crazy, I have a completely opposite experience :) I’ve driven a lot of other great cars (various 911s, Caymas/Boxsters, CTR, GRY, MX5s etc.) before i drove M2 comp, new M2 and F80 M3. And I was very disappointed. I my impression was that BMWs are more high-end muscle cars than precise driving instruments. Seems like we all have very different preferences

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Killbot_Wants_Hug@reddit

It's been a long time since I've driven them so things might have changed, but I'm on your side.

I came from driving an s2000 CR as my daily and was looking to upgrade. I thought I'd give BMW a try as a AWD I6 seems like it has a lot of advantages. I found the body roll unacceptable and the steering imprecise. It seemed like a luxury car that was trying to go fast.

The Boxster S was the only car I found to be a strict upgrade to the s2000 CR. It drove like a sports car that was trying to add luxury.

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sharinganuser@reddit

I'd put Aston up there with Porsche and add Mclaren to the Ferrari-Lambo-Mclaren triad. Then we enter hypercars; koenigsegg, Bugatti, etc

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leyland1989@reddit

911 used to be a somewhat attainable dream car. Not cheap by any means, but attainable if you really try even as someone making average wages.

A base 997 911 was about $80k in 2005, just over $130k adjusted to inflation. Now a base 992.2 911 starting at $135k... On paper. The pricing is somewhat aligned with inflation but if you try ordering a barebone Carrera, the dealer would show you the nearest door. They'd get someone else who's going to pay $200k+ optioned out 911 for that production slot allocation.

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Killbot_Wants_Hug@reddit

The base price for a Porsche is nothing but deception.

Porsche is terrible about nickel and dimeing you on everything about the car.

I was looking at buying a Boxster S back when their starting price was like 60-70k. But getting it equipped decently, not fully loaded, brought the price to over 100k. That's when I decided I should probably buy a house.

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PRSArchon@reddit

Buying a 997 base without options is a worse car than a 992.2 base without options, the fact costs exactly the same proves their pricing makes sense.

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Get a brz.

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RobertM525@reddit

On top of that, the heavy push toward EVs feels out of step with what a lot of enthusiasts actually want. It clashes with the traditional appeal of sports cars, and just adds to the disconnect.

TBF, it's not like they did that because they thought it was a good idea out of nowhere. It was looking an awful lot like the internal combustion engine was going to get banned or severely constrained. The global regulatory environment may have changed now, but it wasn't an unreasonable bet to make at the time. If all (or almost all) cars had to be EVs by 2035, what was Porsche supposed to do? Throw in the towel and say "EVs are soulless, so we give up"? Wait until 2034 to start trying to figure out how to make "the Porsche of EVs" (the way they made "the Porsche of SUVs" with the Cayenne and Macan)?

Lotus is $100k

A Cayman with the motor you actually want is/was about the same price

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Hohenh3im@reddit

Funny enough I'm going to get my cayman built to a 4L just because its cheaper than getting a lotus lol

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Noobasdfjkl@reddit

I was clearly talking new or newer 982s, not used last gen 981s or older.

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Hohenh3im@reddit

And I'm giving a different perspective you piece of shit lol

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This is why I bought a 987.2 Cayman lol. A new base model with no options was double what I paid for my fully loaded 2012 S.

Now sure, I know a 13 year old car with 75k miles is depreciated and has a lot of wear and tear, but new Porsches have reached a completely new price band that's a step higher than it was a decade ago. It went from attainable for middle class/upper middle class, to strictly upper class and the 1%.

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ipascoe@reddit

Oooh......I was like number 666.

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is-this-a-nick@reddit

You realize that many companies have had MUCH worse?

Its profit, not revenue. Plus its a relative number. Any company that has ever made a loss in any year had a worse contraction.

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shugokibrokenlmao@reddit

did i say companies haven’t had worse lol?

Can you blame EV when they still sell tons of gas cars? I havn't looked at the numbers but last i checked the majority of Porsche's sales were from SUVs so it makes sense to me that their losses would be from much better competition than previously in the luxury performance SUV market.

Look at the list of the best selling luxury cars. No porsche to be found despite having their direct competition leading the way. Maybe they inflated the prices too much and they've become a hard sell vs equivalent competition.

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DanGleeballs@reddit

The Taycan sold well in spite of issues in early models, they’re selling loads of Macan EVs and the new Cayenne EV is guaranteed IMO to be a huge seller.

Their issue is pricing. The 911 used to be affordable to the moderately wealthy and sold in droves, now the moderately wealthy person can’t even afford one.

They’ve completely priced themselves out of the market with their signature model.

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blabus@reddit

they’re selling loads of Macan EVs

If they are, I don't know where that's happening. I live in LA and on paper the Macan EV should be being driven by every other person on the road here, yet I see maybe one per week. Hell, I see far more 911s than Macan EVs.

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jotunblod92@reddit

No they don’t sell macans good. My dealer here had like 6 ev macans at january. I visited again only one of them is gone by april.

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Legend13CNS@reddit

The 911 used to be affordable to the moderately wealthy and sold in droves, now the moderately wealthy person can’t even afford one.

Yes and no tbh.

This is all for base models, lowest possible MSRP

Year 2000

Median US household income $42k

Corvette $39k, about 7% below median income

911 $66k, about 57% above median income

Year 2025

Median US household income $82k

Corvette $70k, about 15% below median income

911 $132k, about 61% above median income

By today's numbers the Corvette is a better deal and the 911 hasn't moved much. The issue, for both honestly, is "the one you really want" has moved so far up the tree of trims/options that those MSRP numbers almost don't matter anymore. That doesn't even start on ADM and allocations, which gets nuts in the Porsche world. Based on the Porsche guys I've talked to over the past few years that's where the trouble really starts. It's approaching Ferrari levels of nonsense as far as getting higher trim cars if you aren't already a known Porsche buyer high up on the totem pole. And those guys complaining aren't some crypto bro off the street, they're the kind of guys that buy a 911 Targa and fully loaded Cayenne Turbo at the same time in the same paint/interior spec so the wife™ has something to drive.

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bc10551@reddit

Thing is you can't just compare income change to car price change when housing and other stuff has gone up like crazy

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bam1789-2@reddit

Don’t they sell like every single 911 they make? Unless they are cutting supply because demand isn’t there, then they have zero issues. People spend too much time staring at profits when a company spends a huge number on RDE to set them up for the future.

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ducky21@reddit

Unless they are cutting supply because demand isn’t there, then they have zero issues.

I'm not going to Google it right now, but Porsche leadership has absolutely said they're withholding production to keep supply tight and margins high.

Teslas aside, a Taycan specced identically to my i5 would have cost me twice as much (at least here in Canada), the price chasm is asinine. The car itself is also incredibly cramped for a 5k lbs sedan

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SquareBlueberry12@reddit

What?!?!?

Taycan is the best driving EV on the market. You can criticize price point, standard options, range, infotainment etc. But driving? Definitely not.

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ThePretzul@reddit

I literally never said it drove poorly. I even specifically said it was a good car.

All of the things you said you can criticize about it are literally the exact items that I discussed as being problems for it based on similarly priced competitors lmao

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footpole@reddit

Any Porsche is poorly specced compared to any cheap car if you don’t spend 50k on options.

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ThePretzul@reddit

Well yeah, luxury EV’s are expected to have both performance and features.

kinkycarbon@reddit

The Board can still penalize the CEO for wrong “play”.

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I_hate_alot_a_lot@reddit

I mean... isn't' that kind of the point?

$5.5B to $9B on EV investments, write downs, product strategy, etc. in 2025 alone. Overall investment of like $15-20B with only 150,000 units sold since 2020, so averaging about 30,000 a year.

That's a ton of investment for only selling 30,000 cars a year.

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Dachshand@reddit

That’s a misleading perspective. They only had low profits because THEY INVESTED ALMOST 3 billion in prolonged ICE developments last year!

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jameson71@reddit

China consumers are much more savvy than those in the US. They don't buy on name brand.

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DaggumTarHeels@reddit

Brother, the Chinese market is prone to just as much conspicuous consumption if not more. Especially when it comes to fashion.

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x3nhydr4lutr1sx@reddit

The EV bet wasn't entirely their fault. The original supplier, Northvolt, thought reading the Chinese instructions on their battery equipment was something they could fake it till they make it.

Yea, most of the Porsches, including the 911s, have tracked remarkably close to inflation. But when you consider that most cars have tracked UNDER inflation, it becomes apparent that Porsche has been increasing prices simply because they could.

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Crackertron@reddit

$58,900, or adjusted for inflation, $97,600

Clover-kun@reddit

Introducing a while new vehicle platform, regardless of powertrain, will already cost a manufacturer billions, so that's not totally out of the ordinary

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element515@reddit

Except they are back tracking so hard they aren’t using the EV platforms and trying to somehow make them work for ice

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Clover-kun@reddit

Sounds like a management problem with Porsche. BMW did it right the first time around with the shared platforms, and now can afford to ramp up with dedicated and highly competitive EV platforms right as the rest of their competition throws in the towel

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schultzM@reddit

The 718s 2.0 was built primarily around China and their tax on liter sizes.

I feel like this is just Reddit being too uninformed to understand that literally any business that isn’t publicly traded has always been owned by “private equity” and even publicly traded corporations are largely owned by “private equity” in the form of large investment firms holding massive blocks of voting shares.

But a remake of the Czinger / 918 / GT.

I'll take the stock option codes in my inbox.

Clickbait headline

Porsche starts making hybrids an electric cars and losses profit attempts to sell them at Lamborghini prices 😂

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LJ_blableblibloblu@reddit

Which is another way of saying they'll let Bugatti go out of business again.