Framework says it's selling more Linux laptops than Windows as new Laptop 13 Pro sells out first 7 batches

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Alistesios@reddit

Good on them for the successful launch. The product looks amazing, excited to see some reviews!

I wonder what the driving decision is for the touchscreen though. I can't be the only one who absolutely does not want that and would rather have a cheaper screen without it? Given that it's a pretty expensive machine too ...

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Mother-Pride-Fest@reddit

Yeah I forget that the screen is touchscreen then accidentally click things when pointing at the screen. I wish I could turn off the feature or buy modern laptops without it.

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Savings-Key8533@reddit

I'd rather have a screen that automatically bites every finger that touches it while pointing at it.

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_maple_panda@reddit

With most laptops I’ve seen, there’s a way to disable touch in the BIOS.

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vito0117@reddit

I would like a non touch screen option if it's cheaper

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Stellanora64@reddit

You can still get the old one which is the same resolution but no touch screen from their parts list

You would just have to install it yourself as it's not an option for DIY with the 13 pro

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vito0117@reddit

Oh cool didn't know that

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Savings-Key8533@reddit

As long as people can buy Windows keys for <10 bucks, spending 100-250 doesn't sound right.

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epicsquare@reddit

They know their target audience. For the love of God though, give me an OLED screen and I'll pay whatever they ask

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Fuckspez42@reddit

Framework is aimed at people who are competent enough with technology that they’re willing to spend a bit more knowing that what they’re buying will be repairable/upgradeable. Those people are more likely to be Linux-savvy, or at least able to install their own copy of Windows to avoid paying the license fee.

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xenobiotica_jon@reddit

Framework is aimed at people who are competent enough with technology that they’re willing to spend a bit more knowing that what they’re buying will be repairable/upgradeable.

Hard agree... and disagree: Framework is super appealing, but at this level of nerdery, it competes with the used market. I just took receipt of a less-reliable but still very solid HP Zbook with a recent 10-core i9 proc, 32gb ram, 0.5tb ssd, Nvidia/4gb dedicated gpu, and 4k screen... for under $500 with shipping and tax. I reaaaaally want the Framework laptop, but if I can buy 3x of the ones I just received for the same money... not sure I can justify the Framework.

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sky_blue_111@reddit

it competes with the used market

Well you can say that about any new laptop, that's not specific to Framework in the slightest.

Framework 13 pro is heavily targetting macbook pro's. THAT is the competition. Whether you can find it (or the macbook pro) used or not is a different story.

But you won't find this particular set of features/performance used for $500. What YOU are doing, is settling, compromising, deciding one or more criteria that the new Framework 13 pro offers is not important to you. That could be a combination of condition, battery life, performance, speaker quality etc.

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richtl@reddit

My FW13 is 5 years old. I'd love to get an FW13 Pro, but this damn thing will probably keep working for another five years. I've grown pretty attached to it.

(Manjaro linux for the first 4.9 years. CachyOS for the recent bit. It's a really good machine for running Linux)

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Ggyggyft@reddit

I think they mentioned that you can buy only the chassis and swap it with old fw13, same thing with new mobo+cpu in the old chassis

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crshbndct@reddit

What’s the battery like with that CPU?

And 4GB is a really small GPU

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cptchnk@reddit

Sure, you can save money buying used laptops. That's always been the case. You can make that same argument comparing a brand new ThinkPad to a similar one that's a couple years old. The used one is always gonna be cheaper.

Framework's pricing is kind of inline with Apple's these days, now that memory and storage prices are insane. At the end of the day, it really comes down to what you value more. Do you want to maximize your dollar but spend more time finding specific models that are sometimes hard to find (used route), or do you want a fully modular platform you can grow with has that has ongoing upgrade support from the manufacturer (new Framework)? Really, it's less about saving money and more about making the platform easy to work with and reducing e-waste. You can throw an old Framework mainboard in a Cooler Master enclosure if you upgrade and have a usable computer to run a server, a home lab computer, or something like that. I think that's pretty damned cool.

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cptchnk@reddit

That's a valid point. You'll definitely save money buying used laptops, but that's always been the case, really.

I really don't think the Framework philosophy is about saving money, and that's reflected in their pricing, which is pretty much inline with Apple these days. Rather, it's about giving you a very easy to service platform you can grow with, eliminating the need to throw parts or even entire computers away whenever you upgrade. Their upgrade mainboards aren't exactly cheap though.

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JoeyDJ7@reddit

Yes, obviously, that's also how the car industry works...

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autra1@reddit

Wow where did you find that HP at that price?

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xenobiotica_jon@reddit

Ebay. A little beat up, but serviceable. Had to bend a dent out of the case to get the bottom cover back on. But literally a thousand dollars off a similar spec system one generation newer; worth it for me.

On the other hand, I listen to my kids trolling thru Craigslist looking for the kind of cars that interest them with the search phrase "street legal" ...and I think they learned it from me.

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Oerthling@reddit

I'm sorry, but did you just compare 3rd party, used item prices coming via eBay to new, warrantied items directly from the source? What's the point of that?

Either compare new to new prices or used to used.

Otherwise you're not making much sense.

Plus if you buy a used, slightly beat up FW laptop via eBay you can be sure that you can get replacements for the "beat up" parts of required/desired. While the short lived cheap plastic models by the big manufacturers usually are abandoned after the warranty period runs out.

Nobody claims that FW products are on the inexpensive side. Small manufacturer, with lower volume is not getting the scaling effects you can get as a big manufacturer. So Framework starts at the high end of the market.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

If price at initial purchases is your primary criteria then Framework is unlikely to be what you're looking for.

I bought a FW13 do I can potentially still use it for at least 5 years. If the battery dies I can buy a new battery instead of a whole new laptop. If I drop it and there a dent in the chassis or the display breaks O can get those parts individually, I dread of a new laptop.

I'd rather have 1 good laptop than 3 crappy ones.

YMMV

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autra1@reddit

I'm totally with you on buying second hand, but you're comparing apple to orange there.

My experience : 2 years ago framework was totally competitive to dell for instance, all things equal. For the same price, you even had a far better disk (which was not obvious, as dell doesn't publish the exact spec, but I had a model to compare with).

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zhukis@reddit

I mean it's a question of what you value.

How much does your machine weigh and how long can it work of battery alone?

That'll be a difference.

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70_n_13@reddit

Yeah as much as im a nerd and basically their target audience the price is hard to justify, I can get full laptops like you stated for much cheaper, and upgrading/reselling every 2 years is cheaper too. Also some of the replacement parts are not cheap too, in fact it can actually be easier to source replacement parts of mainstream laptops because their scale is much bigger. Although you ,eed to put more work disassembling it, isnt that what nerds like? haha

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adenosine-5@reddit

"a bit more" lol.

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raoulk@reddit

It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it?

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mattsowa@reddit

I bet it's more due to the latter.

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RobotSpaceBear@reddit

Nobody is buying a 1500€ laptop to avoid purchasing a 14,99€ windows pro license.

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PomegranateSignal882@reddit

Why would somebody choose to pay 1515€ instead of 1500€

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LaughingwaterYT@reddit

15? More like 150, also I personally even if I was spending like 2000+ I would avoid paying for a windows license

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mattsowa@reddit

You're dead wrong. Also, the win pro license they provide costs 200+ usd, so not sure where you're getting your info lol

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saposapot@reddit

It definitely is. Why pay when you can a sketchy key for $5 or never activate it

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SpiritualWillow2937@reddit

These days folks are generally using MAS to activate for $0, though.

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CarVac@reddit

He said in an interview that this was based on user surveys, not based on what was purchased.

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Shuino7@reddit

Are they though?

These laptops have zero driver support. Not surprised no one wants Windows on it.

The only Driver they supply is the OEM Chipset from Intel or AMD.

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jivanyatra@reddit

As the others have mentioned, you are drastically misinformed. There's a full suite of windows drivers for everything from chipset to trackpad and fingerprint reader.

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Shuino7@reddit

They don't have that available on their website.

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jivanyatra@reddit

The links to the driver bundles can be found right here, which take you to a specific page for each model, all on the frame.work domain. The bundles include more than just OEM chipset drivers.

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SpiritualWillow2937@reddit

Being an owner of a 13 and 16, no, I was provided a driver package containing drivers for a dozen different components, not just chipset drivers.

Framework provides all of the drivers necessary to run every component on Windows.

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Shuino7@reddit

Weird non of that is available on their website. Just the OEM Chipset and BIOS.

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Bulky-Bad-9153@reddit

What? First result on Google and then two clicks to download a driver bundle that has everything.

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hgw1956@reddit

Where do you get a Linux laptop?

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cool_slowbro@reddit

People choosing not to have Windows pre-installed doesn't mean they're "Linux laptops".

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Tancrad@reddit

Definitely not.

But it is an encouraging metric to report here on this sub. Which is great news, though people interested are enthusiasts, and I guess it's a given we are more likely to headline Linux opposed to those who are buying cheaper Big box computers.

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According-Buyer6688@reddit

Well I've decided to switch one year ago to Tuxedo because of Windows invigilation and I'm so happy about it.

I think we need more linux-friendly hardware companies

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do-un-to@reddit

invigilation, n.
- Keeping watch over examination candidates to prevent cheating.
- The act of watching or invigilating.
invigilate, v.
- To oversee a test or exam.

Windows watching. Or, might I suggest, Windows spying?

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twa12221@reddit

Oh they do. Lenovo and Dell both work with canonical directly to make sure some of their laptops are ubuntu certified. There are laptops sold with linux pre installed. Just not at big box stores (ateast not in america)

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cyanophage@reddit

I think dell used to do Linux laptops too. Don't know if they do anymore.

You've used what's called a "false friend" 😋 You mean Windows surveillance, or telemetry. "invigilation" is where someone watches over people who are taking an exam.

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According-Buyer6688@reddit

Thank you! In my language (Polish), "Inwigilacja" means surveillance

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Least_Dog4660@reddit

The 13 pro will be my next laptop when I'm happy with parting with the money, and I will be installing Linux on it.

Context: I removed windows off my current laptop after not using it for more than a year and needing more space for all of my Linux needs (I'm a programmer and game on proton)

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Least_Dog4660@reddit

Right now im using an LG gram, which is a fine ultrabook, but a few things are on the way out (most annoyingly the keyboard), so having something that can take more bumps (current laptop is plastic) and have replacable parts is Very appealing.

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Natural_Night9957@reddit

I wish they were a lil bit more affordable

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DesertGeist-@reddit

Yes, because people who buy Framework tend to do that because of Linux

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CaptainObvious110@reddit

awesome

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hurricane340@reddit

Fuck microslop

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KB8084@reddit

seethe rat

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LukeStargaze@reddit

tbf many people buy laptops with Linux because they either already have a Windows license or they're gonna pirate it.

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Wentyliasz@reddit

While cool and awesome, I think it's worth remembering Framework is explicitly targeting enthusiast. Aunt Helen is still gonna buy the shiny mew Dell that will spy on her until the battery explodes precisely 24 months and three days after purchase

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navyblusheet@reddit

Sucks that all the 13 pros come with touchscreen. Am I the only one who thinks touchscreen laptops are stupid and hate them?

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Fratm@reddit

You can always just not touch the screen.

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navyblusheet@reddit

Yeah, so don't want to pay for it + makes it heavier & thicker + battery drain + accidental touches...

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Stellanora64@reddit

The old screen with no touchscreen is still compatible, you would just have to install it yourself

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greenlightison@reddit

Is it really that heavier and thicker? I think you can also turn the touch screen off. Also, since they are making custom screen for their own use, I suspect they have to recover the cost and achieve scale by only using one model. I also suspect it would cost more if they were to offer two options for the screen.

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Fratm@reddit

They do still offer the non-pro which I believe doesn't have the touch screen.

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Isofruit@reddit

Nah, same here. To me, it's wasted money every time I see it pop up as I never use it. Others seem to like it though, so it seems to be enough of a value-add for enough people to be viable.

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pfthewall@reddit

I don't exactly hate them but I never use them. I hate those smudges that get all over the screen.

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ZenithFramework@reddit

My framework 13 (original) laptop is the lowest-quality PC I've ever owned. Multiple failures. The replaceable parts have been useful though.

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b_pop@reddit

Thankfully it's gotten much better over the years. Wouldn't worry about this nowadays.

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Stellanora64@reddit

I can attest to this, have been using the 7640U framework 13 for almost a year now with zero issues

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jackalopeDev@reddit

I got a 13 two months ago. Ive had exactly zero issues. Its the first laptop ive actually enjoyed using tbh. I wonder if there's just a wide variance in quality, or if they've just come a long way.

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Indolent_Bard@reddit

The new ones have a better chassis, speakers, trackpad and screen.

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gabeheadman@reddit

The nice thing is that when my hinges went, I just paid $25 shipped for an upgraded one and I've had no problems since. I was so stoked about it, hah.

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F9-0021@reddit

Early adopter tax. Always going to be a thing with an early run of hardware. The newer 13s and 13 Pro's will have better build quality, and the 2nd Gen 16 has better build quality than the original.

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tristan957@reddit

The original display, chassis, touchpad, and keyboard are definitely not great. I'll upgrade all those components when I can.

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cac2573@reddit

I’m tempted by the XPS 14 but I think I’d rather support Framework.

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Stellanora64@reddit

Get the framework but don't buy an SSD or RAM from them, and just bring your own to get the price down significantly (the only caveat is the LPCMM2 memory, which is now out of stock everywhere except from framework as people have been doing this exact thing x3 )

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Fratm@reddit

Dells have gone down hill.. I wouldn't buy them again after my last two. I bought a FW16 last year and have zero issues and zero complains.

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CammKelly@reddit

Doubt its because of 'omg I want to run Linux' and more 'its cheaper to buy a Windows key elsewhere'.

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Fratm@reddit

They have a no OS option, so why wouldn't just do that if that was the plan?

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Stellanora64@reddit

This is for pre-builts, only the DIY edition has a no OS option

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DoubleOwl7777@reddit

if you buy a framework you might also be the type to run linux tbh.

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F3z345W6AY4FGowrGcHt@reddit

It also comes up frequently if you search for something like "best laptop for Linux"

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Stellanora64@reddit

And after using my framework 13 for about a year, it really is the best linux supported device I own (even the fingerprint sensor works!)

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FlukyS@reddit

Well and a lot of people would have a Windows key they could move over. But that being said quite a lot of the appeal of this is that it basically is the best Linux certified laptop that has ever been made and there are quite a lot of developers out there who need a solid machine.

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Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

Is it though? I don’t think it’s that good of a "Linux machine"

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FlukyS@reddit

It arguably is the best Linux laptop that has ever been made by a long stretch not even being hyperbolic, I won't even be buying one for myself unless maybe my new company gets me one. Like system76 I love and their support is amazing but their laptops aren't great, the Dell dev edition laptops are alright but they don't refresh the specs often so like right now it is terrible, Lenovo were great but their support has been slipping over the years and generally don't offer Linux installs on their site so you have to email them for a quote usually. This is a complete, competitive product that has all the features required to be a primary desktop replacement dev machine and that is what quite a lot of people need.

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Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

But what exactly is better with framework? They offer Linux preinstalled but battery life is still worse than on Thinkpads. They’re super overpriced too. I don’t see what is supposed to be better with framework laptops than any of the other options, hardware wise they’re mid at best

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Indolent_Bard@reddit

You can still buy a new battery for it five years from now.

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Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

So, what? I can do the same for my think pad. It’s not a unique thing.

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Indolent_Bard@reddit

So that's two brands. And one of them is getting worse I hear.

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Paumanok@reddit

Their new model is testing at 20hrs of battery life. IIRC the CachyOS folks said they got two full work days out of a single charge.

Thinkpad battery life went down the shitter on linux btw. Not so much in-use battery, but they removed legacy sleep modes for the always-on bullshit that microsoft pushed, removed the legacy mode from the bios too.

My 2024 X1 carbon loses ~5-10% per hour with the lid closed. I straight up stopped using it because it was always dead when I went to grab it. It was basically tied to the charger.

To add salt to the wound, the thing almost lit itself on fire when I plugged it in. The USB-C charger did the full handshake and delivered 65W to what seems to have been a dead short. I basically had to fight with Lenovo support because I was a month out of warranty, bought the basic extended warranty and then they claimed the basic one "didn't cover power surges". I explained it wasn't a power surge, it was their shoddy hardware that almost burnt my apartment down. I had to call out the phone support people who kept doing fake holds to waste my time.

I had one put me on "hold", and I basically said "look I don't care if you want to take a smoke break, I need this elevated" and she came back on the line immediately, absolutely spooked and got my shit sorted.

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FlukyS@reddit

Well overpriced is maybe a bit of an awkward one, repairability is quite important when looking at their machines, if you break something they sell replacements indefinitely, if they make a better keyboard you can buy just the new keyboard. So they have to price in that they aren't disposable products. As for battery life, most devs aren't buying laptops for battery life, they are buying them for portability and generally if it has over 10 hours of having an editor open and watching youtube in the background it is going to be more than enough.

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Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

That’s not really an advantage given the otherwise rather bad hardware. I/O is rather bad, battery life isn’t competitive and so on.

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FlukyS@reddit

What do you mean I/O is rather bad?

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Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

Only 4 ports, mid selection at best.

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FlukyS@reddit

Errr it is 13.5 inches dude what do you expect like 40 ports? It has Thunderbolt and the weird PCIe expansion bus thing. Most people nowadays will have maybe an external keyboard and mouse, ethernet port and a hdmi or displayport (also most laptops wouldn't ship a displayport at all so this is an improvement). If you are complaining about something specific I'd be complaining about the meh camera really but everything else is pretty much either better than the alternatives or close enough.

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Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

On other (much cheaper) laptops you can have Thunderbolt, an SD card reader and USB A etc. already integrated. There isn’t a single useful expansion card that covers a use case that is realistic in any way. On the hand, you’re limited to four ports max, a pretty bad Ethernet port.

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FlukyS@reddit

Well the point of a Framework laptop (and desktop) is you can customise it to your needs. I have mostly moved over to USB-C across the board so I'd be fine with having all USB-C ports and using DP over USB for output and all...etc but having the dongle system is really helpful. The 4 ports max thing isn't really a big problem IMO.

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DarKliZerPT@reddit

"Buy"

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Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

Most people don't even install browsers, if you think they know how to pirate a Windows key you are delusional

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spazturtle@reddit

You don't need to pirate Windows, you just install it and request an activation licence from Microsoft's servers and it adds one to your MS account.

The easiest way to do this is to just open PowerShell and run:

irm https://get.activated.win | iex

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Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

First of all, that doesn't do whatever you think, which is quite funny

If you go to the URL It shows a script that installs 3 scripts, with thousands of lines each one and if you search enough you Will get to a repo, one that developed this script... But yes, say whatever you want buddy

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spazturtle@reddit

Yes it does do what I think, it is a community made script to request an activation key from Microsoft's servers. And if you check your Microsoft account after running it then you will see that a Windows licence has been added.

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Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

No you don't know what It does, you said this:

You don't need to pirate Windows, you just install it and request an activation licence from Microsoft's servers and it adds one to your MS account.

And after I said thats wrong, you now decides to explain what It does (well, you just repeated what I said).

And I don't fucking care what It does at the end. It calls 3 different scripts each one needs thousands of lines just to make a curl to a MS URL? Yes sure

Have you read It? No, right? You just say that it's ok because there wasn't a pop Up saying that you have a virus...

Insert image of the Planet with bullets

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spazturtle@reddit

Yes, and what I said what correct. I then said the easiest way to do it is to run the command that downloads and runs the community script in power shell.

This script has been around for years and is hosted on Microsoft owned GitHub. So what if it needs a few thousand lines of code to generate your hardware ID and other information needed to requested a hardware based Windows activation and then install that certificate.

Have you read the code of every single open source programme you use? Of course you haven't, I doubt there is anyone alive who has read the whole of the Linux kernel's code.

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Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

In the first lines It tries to detect secureboot.exe and, if it's detected, asks you to delete It by opening a browser tab. Have you read It? It's on the first like of the first of the 3 scripts downloaded.

GitHub also had a bunch of projects, like a Windows Emulator for android that was quite used among people Who wanted to play Steam games. Guess what? MS did nothing

The same script check if alg.exe exists for some reason and if It doesn't (which would mean that you have no internet connection) It makes you pc as infected. There is no reason for that AFAIK

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PomegranateSignal882@reddit

MAS tools is not some random fly-by-night GitHub repo, it's the standard way to activate by anybody who knows what they're doing, and it has thousands of eyes on the code

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Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

How many of these "know what they are doing" can do basic task with the terminal? Or know scripting?

I'm kinda tired of seeing people that know how to put a CPU on a motherboard acting like if they knew about computers

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SeriesXM@reddit

This a pretty well-known activation script for Windows and Office. Maybe you already know this and I'm missing your point, but your reply makes it sounds like the person you're replying to posted some weird random script that might hurt you.

This has been the way to crack MS products for at least a few years now and I don't even think there's a another approach that's nearly this good.

I would think this is pretty common knowledge for tech savvy people, but maybe you just don't use Windows in any capacity? It's okay if this isn't something you have experience with, but why be so rude and defensive about something you're not qualified to reply to?

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Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

why to be rude and deffensive to someone recommending something they don't understand? That has an URL that tries to look like something from MS? With an explanation to make It sound like it's a MS official server providing the Keys when It's not? Really? And I'm the issue here?

You can do whatever you want, but you are executing a script with admin privileges that IS actively blocked at DNS level without checking what It does. Am I the wrong one here? Really? When saying that executing random scripts isn't safe if you don't check them? You have to be kidding, I don't care if it's popular, there was a malicious Windows Emulator, open source btw, on android that sold their user data for years. Something being open source doesn't make a difference when their users don't care enough to check what It does

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vm_linuz@reddit

I think it's "buy" because normally when you buy something, you own it.

You do not own your OS when you pay for Windows.

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Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

When did I used "buy"? Read the comment again

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vm_linuz@reddit

Ummm... Read the comment you responded to, then read your comment, then read my comment.

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Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

Ohhhh my bad

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Indolent_Bard@reddit

The fact that everyone uses Chrome instead of Edge means most people DO install browsers.

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Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

The fact that nobody installs and sets Up Windows but asks a technician or a family member that "knows about computers" shows the opposite. Do you know how much people pays to reinstall Windows?

A 10% of the Windows users use Edge, meanwhile less than a 1% use It on Android. How is It that 1/10 decide to use a different browser on their phones for no reason?

How is It that the number of Safari users is a 20% which is the amount of Apple devices compared to the competitors globally?

Oh, looks like most people just uses whatever comes preinstalled unless someone else installs other thing. Most of the people Who prepare the OS for others install Chrome and usually remove Edge from the task bar and the Desktop. They aren't using It as it's hidden and if the same people installed Brave, firefox or Opera instead the number of Chrome users on Desktop would go down

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Xaeroxe3057@reddit

We are talking about Framework customers here, different crop of folk.

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Ok-Winner-6589@reddit

Sorry bro

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turtleship_2006@reddit

"Most people" probably also don't make a habit of repairing their laptops themselves.

We're talking about people who are choosing to spend the money to get a framework.

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neoronio20@reddit

You just run a github available script, not rocket science. It is actually easier to run the script to activate windows than installing chrome lol

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Flashy_Pollution_996@reddit

mydigitallife is the place to “shop” at

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TheG0AT0fAllTime@reddit

What a bad suggestion/ad lol. Massgravel all the way, no exception for personal use.

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carterxz@reddit

I’ve only ever used massgrave for my license

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aliendude5300@reddit

Shop...?

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Gugalcrom123@reddit

Usually recycle.

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LEpigeon888@reddit

Windows Pro costs like 2€, easier to buy it than crack it.

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Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

There are activition scripts on GitHub (owned by Microsoft btw) that activate your windows permanently with a single click.

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EnnonGShamoi@reddit

Cute that you think people buy windows licenses

A mass grave of devs says otherwise 😉

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Flimsy_Complaint490@reddit

i do.

15 bucks on g2a. Some stolen OEM key, works fine. Feels a bit safer than going looking for a KMS solution, most places i frequented are now extinct. Not activating windows is viable but i like a friction free way of changing my wallpaper.

Then again, today im Linux only so all moot.

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maaaaawp@reddit

15 bucks for either a stolen key or a key bought with a stolen credit card is way sketchier than the script most people use nowadays

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cortez0498@reddit

Pirating the OS is much better than buying shit off g2a or other similar sites. Same with games.

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r3volts@reddit

Search for massgrave on GitHub next time you need one.
Quicker, doesn't support dodgy key selling sites, is at least somewhat OK as far as Microsoft is concerned being that it's hosted on GitHub, and from a legitimacy perspective is just as legitimate as a grey market key which is likely some sort of volume key being sold against its terms.

[-]

OverdueBoring@reddit

This here. Dodgy sites are likely reselling stolen or grey-market keys. Don't support the criminals if you can avoid it.

[-]

alpH4rd07@reddit

I also do buy ever since I can afford it. I have also bought office for me and my family members. Bonus is that I don't get calls anymore because an app's been updated and everything went south. Life became peaceful ever since.

[-]

CammKelly@reddit

Honestly the HWID approach is nuts as it ends up registering the aforementioned HWID on Microsoft's servers meaning that hardware combo is forever licensed onwards from Microsoft's side rather than what is running to activate locally.

[-]

ItsPaperBoii@reddit

Dont they also offer an option with linux pre installed?

[-]

DesiOtaku@reddit

If that was true, then they would go for the "DIY" option and save even more money by getting their own SSD. According to the tweet, Framework is reporting that people are going out of their way to get Ubuntu pre-installed.

[-]

KwyjiboTheGringo@reddit

Sure, but this is a new trend. That incentive has always been there, assuming people even bother with a valid key. You used to be able to point Windows at a alternate key server pretty easily using a custom DNS entry, but I haven't done that in a long time so idk if that's still possible.

This suggests that people are less willing to pay for Windows nowadays. Probably because it's full of a AI crap now.

[-]

mystichead@reddit

While true but I think they're talking about preloaded rather than diy

[-]

tnoy@reddit

Choosing Linux as the pre-installed option is $200 cheaper on the pre-installed version. I would absolutely buy that even if I knew I was going to be running Windows.

[-]

SutekhThrowingSuckIt@reddit

their entire website is emphasizing Linux support and centering it. honestly it’s more surprising this was in doubt considering the company

[-]

Desertcow@reddit

Still a pretty good message to send to hardware manufacturers, that they can save money and skip the Windows license in favor of Ubuntu and still ship product. Even if they got a deal to get the home licenses for $60 a pop, if they gave you the option to get Ubuntu for cheaper I'd imagine plenty of people would still go for that

[-]

Kwpolska@reddit

How many of them would be confused by Ubuntu and swamp the laptop manufacturer's tech support line?

[-]

UnluckyDouble@reddit

I'm pretty sure it's because it's the laptop manufacturer whose brand is "do to your hardware what Linux does to your software".

[-]

WSuperOS@reddit

'its cheaper to buy a Windows key elsewhere'.

buy

Or find one buried in a mass grave

[-]

cyborgborg@reddit

for some people that might be true but the whole repairable laptop thing is something that resonates with Linux users and they also have good support for their hardware on Linux so these laptops.

Most windows users are people that just don't care, they just want a laptop and just go and buy whatever they can afford

[-]

Low-Shake6447@reddit

honestly i'd too if the laptop im about to buy offer me options other than windows with cheaper price lol

[-]

PraetorRU@reddit

Why flamed? That's pretty logical and probable reason.

[-]

Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

Means nothing and is no surprise. People who buy framework laptops are much more likely to install an OS themselves. Framework charges you full price for your windows license and their SSDs are pretty overpriced. I’m pretty sure the vast majority of buyers will buy it without an OS and without a SSD, simply for cost reasons.

So, it’s either pay nothing for Linux or pay an additional 150-250 USD for an activated windows. Even if you want windows, it makes no sense to buy the license from framework.

[-]

AutistcCuttlefish@reddit

Plus these days most people can get away without activating Windows pretty easily. If you are the type who isn't bothered by ads you probably aren't gonna be annoyed by the activate windows watermark.

[-]

Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

Or activate it for free, or reuse your previous license, or get a cheap key or get a valid physical license for cheaper than that. Framework takes full retail price without any discount, they’re the most expensive source for a windows license that I’m aware of

[-]

BeatTheBet@reddit

Not like the rest of what they offer is any cheaper.

Like, ok, I love what they are doing for upgradability/repairability but damn... for those prices I could probably afford to buy multiple iterations of hardware years apart to the point I don't need to care about upgradability/repairability...

Bottom line configuration (including cheapest option SSD/RAM) is 1900€

[-]

Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

And the hardware isn’t even that good. Had one for testing a few years ago and wasn’t happy at all. I chose a thinkpad instead, paid like half the price and have an overall better laptop

[-]

Indolent_Bard@reddit

And when you need to get a new battery in five years, you're screwed. It's wasteful to buy a new laptop when you just need to replace the battery. Framework is the only company that doesn't make you buy a new laptop for a simple defect. You CAN buy two computers for the price of a framework, but then you're buying two computers, which is wasteful.

[-]

Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

Don’t know where you get that from. Replacing a battery isn’t that hard.

[-]

BillTran163@reddit

Hmmmm....

[-]

Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

?

[-]

BillTran163@reddit

I doubt your statement. But I'm too poor to have a big sample size to rebut it.

[-]

MrHyperion_@reddit

Battery change on laptops is usually just screws and couple connectors.ucj easier than phones.

[-]

EraPro1@reddit

i think they're saying it's hard to find genuine replacement batteries, not that it's hard to change the battery itself

[-]

Malsententia@reddit

I'd allow them that point. I've gone through like 3 batteries for my 8 year old dell latitude, and the off brand ones, half the time, they falsely report their health, and jump from 50% to 20% much faster than the went from 80% to 50%.

[-]

Indolent_Bard@reddit

See, you do NOT want to use off-brand batteries. A repair shop won't use that.

[-]

Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

Depends on your model. iFixit literally sells Thinkpad batteries for devices from 8 years ago.

Most batteries can be repaired with new cells too, there are shops that do that.

[-]

repocin@reddit

And when you need to get a new battery in five years, you're screwed. It's wasteful to buy a new laptop when you just need to replace the battery.

That is indeed incredibly wasteful, which is what the EU battery regulation that comes into effect next year aims to solve. It dictates that batteries must be easily replaceable with common tools and must be available for at least five years after the last unit was put up for sale on the market.

[-]

Indolent_Bard@reddit

See, I plan on owning my next laptop for more than five years.

[-]

PomegranateSignal882@reddit

Then in this situation you could replace the battery at the 5 year mark and easily make it to 10 years. The battery doesn't get remotely detonated on the 5 year anniversary

[-]

Ruben_NL@reddit

5 years is way too low. I run most of my personal hardware for 10+ years.

[-]

maaaaawp@reddit

Honestly my go to laptop is a thinkpad. Theyre actually indestructible

[-]

Indolent_Bard@reddit

Yes, but then you would be buying multiple iterations of a hardware which is wasteful. It's silly to buy two laptops when you only need one.

Plus, it's the only laptop you'll be able to buy a battery for five years from now. That's invaluable.

And even if they had economies of scale, their business model would make it impossible for their to sell for as cheap as their competition simply because they're betting on you not buying a new laptop when it breaks.

[-]

PDXPuma@reddit

Plus, it's the only laptop you'll be able to buy a battery for five years from now. That's invaluable.

This is true if they're still around in 5 years. When I buy my first battery to replace the dead/ineffective one in my framework when I need to , it might be six or seven years from now. I hope they'll still have the ones for my laptop, but they've already discontinued some things.

[-]

Indolent_Bard@reddit

What did they discontinue that want replaced?

Also, the fact that they're still here now makes me confident they will be here in 7 years. You're right that they could always die, but that applies to any company. I was worried about their success but now I'm sure they'll be around for decades.

And if they do die, they'll probably have links to third party ones that work.

[-]

TibialCuriosity@reddit

What have they discontinued that they don't have a replacement?

They discontinued the original screen, but still have 2 (now 3) screen replacements. They may have discontinued the first battery (not sure), but now have 2 batteries. Is there a part I missed? Genuinely curious

[-]

DesiOtaku@reddit

Actually, according to the article and Framework's own tweet, they are NOT doing DIY. They are going out of their way to buy the SSD from Framework and getting Ubuntu pre-installed.

[-]

Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

You have two options: DIY edition or prebuilt edition. The latter is much expensive. You can’t get the o pop prebuilt without an OS, you either choose Windows 11 for $200 or get Ubuntu 24 for free.

[-]

DesiOtaku@reddit

But the point being, when it comes to pre-built, more people are going for Ubuntu rather than Windows. If it was just a money thing, they would have done DIY and got their own SSD.

This is confirming there is a decent market for pre-installed Linux laptops outside of Tuxedo and System76.

[-]

PomegranateSignal882@reddit

I don't think that logic follows. Wanting to save money doesn't automatically mean they have the knowledge or confidence to DIY

[-]

DesiOtaku@reddit

For the DIY, you just have to install the SSD and then you can install Windows. Framework goes out of their way to give you video step-by-step instructions on how to install your own SSD.

If they were planning to install Windows anyway (either by overriding an existing Linux install or via DIY), they would still be on their own in terms of figuring out how to install Windows, get the proper drivers and go though all the steps required to set up Windows for their own use; which, in my opinion, is far time and knowledge than screwing in an SSD with video instructions.

[-]

zimbabwe_zainab@reddit

kmspico is free

[-]

amroamroamro@reddit

that's old, there are better ways now: MAS

[-]

BinkReddit@reddit

pay an additional 150-250 USD for an activated windows.

Madness. Most people are only doing this because their legacy organization still requires Windows for work. At this point, Windows is so far gone that I expect Microsoft will be giving it away for non-commercial use soon.

[-]

Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

There are cheaper ways. Framework is just really expensive when it comes to windows licenses. They charge $200 for a simple Windows 11 pro on the Framework 13

[-]

F9-0021@reddit

Probably because they don't have a deal with Microsoft. $200 is the retail price of Windows Pro.

[-]

Column_A_Column_B@reddit

If framework stopped offering laptops without windows that the licenses included, the price of the windows licenses would drop.

[-]

adenosine-5@reddit

BTW in Europe you can buy legal Windows licence for like 10USD.

[-]

197328645@reddit

They basically already give it away for free to non-commercial users. They clearly don't care to stop people from activating windows through illegitimate means, not that they really could but they could make it harder and they don't.

[-]

TryTheRedOne@reddit

Bought my Framework 13 last year, and bought 64 GB RAM for it separately for 140 eur.

[-]

Gugalcrom123@reddit

Not that it is cheap with other manufacturers either. When I got my Lenovo, the Windows Home option cost €90 compared to the blank option.

[-]

Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

Well, Framework charges 220€ for it. It’s literally cheaper to get a retail windows with the usb stick. The DVD versions are like 150€ in retail in most places.

[-]

accik@reddit

In my locale they charge 259€ for the pro, that is the same price as from Microsoft directly. Home is 145€ so quite normal. Don't know where you got your information...

[-]

Jumpy-Dinner-5001@reddit

Yes, but if you look at other retail stores, you’ll find Windows (with DVD or USB) for a lot cheaper than Microsoft’s msrp

[-]

solid_reign@reddit

I know several people who bought frameworks, love them, are not techies, and enjoy the concept.

[-]

NicolasDorier@reddit

The marketing is super appealing to Linux nerds I might say. I am tempted.

[-]

Sindica69@reddit

I can vouch for framework. I don’t have a 13, but I do plan on buying the 13 pro for work. I have a 16 and it has served me extremely well and I have no plans on replacing it anytime soon.

[-]

Indolent_Bard@reddit

"13 pro" that's a thing?

[-]

Sindica69@reddit

Look at the headline that this post was made for lmao. Just got announced.

[-]

Indolent_Bard@reddit

Somehow I skipped that part when I read it.

[-]

Sindica69@reddit

😂 happens a lot with me too

[-]

snail1132@reddit

How dare you ask someone on a linux sub to read the headline of a linux related article

[-]

Indolent_Bard@reddit

I read it, my brain skipped that part.

[-]

Sindica69@reddit

In fairness I do that shit all the time, I ain’t gonna blame them

[-]

hammackj@reddit

I have a 15 and 13. Great laptops. Almost Mac quality trackpad. My next laptop will be a framework also.

[-]

F9-0021@reddit

I'm waiting for a 2 in 1 that has performance and build quality like the 13. With the new touchscreen and experience from the 12, I can't imagine that it's too far off now.

[-]

gablaxy@reddit

did you read the news ?

[-]

phylter99@reddit

My current laptop is a Mac. The new offering from Framework looks really good to me. I don’t foresee ever not having a Mac, but I might switch to a Mac Mini on the desktop and grab a Framework for portability.

[-]

codechisel@reddit

The best portable I ever had was the 12inch macbook. I'd really like to see those offered again.

[-]

phylter99@reddit

Framework has a 12 inch laptop. It's not the 13 inch pro when it comes to build quality, but it's there. I wonder if they'll move the build quality to their other offerings eventually.

[-]

Cry_Wolff@reddit

Framework has a 12 inch laptop

And it sucks ass.

[-]

phylter99@reddit

Does it? It looks like it's geared towards children in school. It's not something I'd buy just based on the design.

Like I said though, I wonder if it'll get the Pro treatment like the 13 did.

[-]

demoklion@reddit

They got the neo now for a few weeks

[-]

Buckwheat469@reddit

How do you like the 15? I'm thinking about a new dev laptop for my personal business use and like the idea of the 15 but was unsure about the size. I have a 13 and have used a Yoga 13 as well but it's kind of small compared to my MacBook Pro that I have for work.

[-]

hammackj@reddit

I like it works well for me with cachyos. I switched from fully osx to fully linux. I have the 13 as well and it was too small for me.

[-]

Drakidor@reddit

I made the switch in early February to full time Linux after getting hit with the bug where Windows would not shut down. Switched both my desktop for gaming and laptop over. I kept Windows on both as a just in case but honestly except for one instance where a friend asked me to get on Destiny 2 I have not had to boot into Windows at all.

As much as I really want a Framework laptop right now, I just don't have the budget for it. But when I need to replace my current laptop I know that I will be for sure getting one. I am done with Windows.

[-]

Odd_Cauliflower_8004@reddit

yeah the premium they command is quite a lot

[-]

golden_bear_2016@reddit

Almost Mac quality trackpad

Not really, it's not close to Mac's quality.

[-]

yngseneca@reddit

This new trackpad might be though. Definitely not the old one, don't know what he's talking about

[-]

New_Enthusiasm9053@reddit

It's not terrible though. It's business class ThinkPad/dell level which is good enough. The new one should be even better for sure.

[-]

Gugalcrom123@reddit

I would prefer a traditional one with mouse buttons. Not sure if they can implement a trackpoint as well, but it would be very nice.

[-]

nuclearbananana@reddit

Not without getting sued by Lenovo probably.

[-]

PsyOmega@reddit

Dell and HP have trackpoints.

The 1990 patent expired 7 years ago.

[-]

hammackj@reddit

My 13 no. My 15 yes. Dunno about these new ones. I got this 15 in Jan or Feb runs arch linux and for me the trackpad is almost as good as the MacBook Pro next to it.

[-]

Pendaz@reddit

I have the 13 while I 100% would recommend them as a laptop the company themselves shit all over me when I requested a replacement touchpad 1 week after I took delivery telling me there was nothing wrong with it.

It’s so bad it makes me not want to use it, in responsive, laggy, clicks don’t always register.

Sure I’ve heard a lot of good things about thieir trackpad but in my experience it doesn’t come anywhere close to a MacBook trackpad

[-]

jivanyatra@reddit

I know others have mentioned the issues could be drivers with the framework trackpad.

I experience a less common issue - my travel charger is not grounded, and using an ungrounded power source makes my trackpad super erratic, exactly as you describe. Don't know why, but in case you didn't know, I figured it can't hurt to mention.

Aside from this, my trackpad has been as close to a MacBook trackpad as I've ever experienced. It definitely sucks that your experience isn't great.

[-]

Pendaz@reddit

Thanks for the info dude, not aware of it being on/off power making a difference but will keep it in mind going forward.

TBH generally it doesn’t bother me that much since my custom DE is designed to be as keyboard driven as possible, albeit every now and again I do need a mouse.

Also don’t get me wrong. I 100% would recommend this platform regardless of my shitty experience with their support. Ironic the only issue I have is with an aspect of the hardware I’m actively working towards eradicating.

[-]

jivanyatra@reddit

No worries! Yeah, when I'm unplugged, I've not had issues in general. I'm mostly on windows on it these days unfortunately (dependent on proprietary software and the odd gaming).

I tend to be as keyboard driven as possible, too, at least when I'm on Linux. Mouseless is also a Godsend and worth the money IMHO. Can't wait to finish things and go full Linux again.

My overall experience is still that Framework is the best of what is out there. Can't tell you how many hardware issues I've had with Dell, or problems with HP and Asus customer support. Good to have full disclosure in any case!

[-]

cafk@reddit

It’s so bad it makes me not want to use it, in responsive, laggy, clicks don’t always register.

It could be a driver issue, I've had multiple laptops where the mouse pointer jumps around or doesn't correctly register clicks, while a wired mouse works fine.

Which would explain why they didn't find an issue.

[-]

SnooPuppers8698@reddit

they have all sorts of driver and firmware and bios issues they will never sort out because theyd rather make money delivering new products than polishing their existing ones.

[-]

jgrow2@reddit

I concur. I had all sorts of trackpad issues with my Framework 13, they mainly came down to driver problems, sometimes even between desktop environments. It's been a great machine since then, for over three years ago.

[-]

dsaf123@reddit

Really? I have a MacBook Air and the track pad kind of annoys me? It's not very responsive when I click but it's possible I'm just not used to it. Any idea if a MacBook Pro has a better trackpad than the Air? If the framework trackpad is better than the Airs it will be my next laptop for sure

[-]

miko3456789@reddit

The higher end ones (air and pro) should all use the same haptic trackpad. For the record my air's trackpad is great and I have no issues with it

[-]

Pendaz@reddit

Hmm maybe that’s the difference between pro and air trackpads then. I’ve only ever used pros and I have an external trackpad too. Never had any issues with it but the fw is quite inconsistent with accuracy. Often I have to swipe a few times for it to move my cursor

[-]

SnooPuppers8698@reddit

i have a 16, awful laptop, terrible trackpad. really disappointed with how the company continues to overextend themselves by creating new products instead of supporting their existing ones.

[-]

dswhite85@reddit

they've been around now for like 6-7 years, if you haven't been tempted already, it's probably just not for you.

[-]

autra1@reddit

Oh so I can never buy an iphone? I guess I will also never buy Toyota or Mercedes....

And I guess that if I keep a laptop more than 6 years (which I do), then I cannot buy any other company later? Your take does not make any sense !

[-]

UpstairsRegion@reddit

I was really tempted to get a framework when my laptop was slow as hell. A lot of the draw was the repairability, then I realized I should probably try to repair my existing one first. Swapped the HDD for an SSD threw Linux on it, and bam, it works great again.

[-]

DynoMenace@reddit

I'm convinced this laptop was scientifically formulated in a lab to appeal to me specifically (definitely not main character syndrome). Even down to the gray/orange keyboard color way. Nearly every spec and design choice is exactly what I would ask for in aa laptop, and then some. I reserved one and my goal is to keep it for at least a decade.

[-]

mmmboppe@reddit

the marketing is appealing as well to Linux users who are not nerds

the price - not so much. can't compete with Thinkpads

[-]

elmagio@reddit

Tbh I'd be willing to pay extra for the upgradeability and flexibility. Yes it's a bigger upfront cost but if I want to upgrade to Intel Nova Lake, AMD Zen 6 or future platforms I only need to buy the new mainboard, if I want to go light on RAM due to the current price hikes I can do that and upgrade later (and now without much drawback since it's LPCAMM), if I already have a few SSDs lying around I can also skip on buying that from Framework and reuse them, ...

Technically someone could upgrade their OG Framework 13 from ages ago to Panther Lake for 500 bucks (admittedly more if you want the higher end PTL), and while that didn't appeal to me because the OG chassis was not good enough for me to long term commit to it, if this new one is anywhere near as good as it seems then the higher initial investment may very well make sense in time, especially if you add to that that you can reuse the old mainboard as a mini PC or home server.

The only reason I didn't place an order is I just bought a laptop a few months ago. It cost me far less than a Framework would and is genuinely great but I'd have still preferred the Framework 13 Pro for the aforementioned reasons.

[-]

Masterflitzer@reddit

lpcamm2 is mad expensive tho

[-]

elmagio@reddit

It's very new and the Framework 13 Pro is one of the first things to make use of it, so there's little to no pre-RAMpocalypse inventory out there. As it becomes more common and the RAM shortages ease I expect it will become more comparable to SODIMM pricing.

[-]

Masterflitzer@reddit

yeah hope so, but i always felt sodimms were priced unproprtionally higher than dimms, laptop ram upgrades unfortunately always were expensive and will probably always be

[-]

FrohenLeid@reddit

Jup :( will cost me 2k at least..

[-]

Cowh3adDK@reddit

Me too, I bought a laptop 5 years ago, barely use it once every three months now, after finishing school, have to stop myself from buying every new framework device that I won't have a use for.

[-]

l-roc@reddit

Still not getring over the far right sponsoring

[-]

Liarus_@reddit

drops insane take

leaves to never be seen again

[-]

l-roc@reddit

out of tokens I guess?

[-]

l-roc@reddit

Geez what's with your focus of attention, are you a fruit fly?

And acshually I left 2 comments ;)

[-]

BleaKrytE@reddit

The what?

[-]

OppositeFisherman89@reddit

They sponsor DHH, who is labelled as far-right.

You can Google DHH. He has caused a lot of controversy in the open source community.

Framework claims they don't sponsor him, but they still send him hardware for free.

[-]

average_life_person@reddit

Far right sponsoring?

[-]

l-roc@reddit

They sponsored David Heinemeier Hansson and doubled down when people made them aware on his white nationalist stance. Some context, first article that came up: https://www.osnews.com/story/143520/in-bizarre-move-framework-embraces-deeply-extremist-views/

[-]

WhoDoYou24@reddit

They actually stopped sponsoring DHH in their future sponsoring rounds.

[-]

r3volts@reddit

Good, but it's a shame someone in the company with power made the sponsorship happen in the first place.

For me personally the fact that whoever this person was is likely still at the company takes framework from definitely being my next laptop to being in the middle of the pack. There would need to be a significant (to me) reason for me to buy one.

Your wallet is the most powerful tool we as regular people have. I'm not going to contribute money to causes that ultimately work against me just so I can have a slightly better laptop if I can help it.

[-]

kahoinvictus@reddit

As far as I know, DHH was never "at the company". It was a sponsorship.

[-]

l-roc@reddit

someone in the company with power made the sponsorship happen

[-]

kahoinvictus@reddit

Ah yeah you're right, I can't read

[-]

SoilMassive6850@reddit

But still supply him with pre-release hardware for marketing?

https://xcancel.com/dhh/status/2046677012878708834

[-]

WhoDoYou24@reddit

I did not know that. This definitely influences my decision regarding Framework. Thanks

[-]

LuckyHedgehog@reddit

That article doesn't actually quote anything from DHH, just providing heavily bias opinion summaries of what he said. Like sure, I know what he said and it is bad, but this is a terrible source to share if you're trying to actually inform people about what DHH actually said.

[-]

ActivityIcy4926@reddit

This is the actual blog post and it's much more nuanced than OSnews made it out to be: https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64

(Not endorsing the blog, just sharing for context)

[-]

l-roc@reddit

I mean if we need to discuss wether saying only white people are native brits is a white national take we don't have to discuss at all (or you didn't bother to look up what's being critizised about the article)

[-]

ActivityIcy4926@reddit

There's a whole lot in between sponsoring the far right and sponsoring an open source project that has a lead who has expressed opinions that lean towards the far right.

[-]

l-roc@reddit

In general maybe, but if it's about a project who's only distinguishing advertised feature is "made by a certain person" then it is very much about that person.

[-]

NicolasDorier@reddit

Not everything is political get over it.

[-]

technobicheiro@reddit

Everything is political you just don't care.

[-]

JackDostoevsky@reddit

the compatibility is top tier. i've never had a laptop with this level of seamless compatibility with linux. everything more or less Just Works.

[-]

rataman098@reddit

If I didn’t have my Lenovo Legion 7i I’d probably buy a Framework too

[-]

Disastrous-Trader@reddit

My only complaint with Framework is I can't buy them as I'm from Brazil.

[-]

irodov4030@reddit

Mac - Only USB c ports, go buy dongles

Framework - you will buy even the USB C ports!

[-]

Oerthling@reddit

The USB C modules are dirt cheap. But you can skip them if you want. The modular ports all plug in to USB-C ports. Feel free to use these without modules.

[-]

greenlightison@reddit

The dongles dangle out of the laptop though. Also, with swappable modules, I can choose which sides I want for which ports etc.

[-]

irodov4030@reddit

I know they are dirt cheap but so is every dongle.

I like Framework laptop but I sort of believe USB C can be a good default standard.

With this kind of design, I see a lot of wasted space in the chasis. 4 blocks are occupying space for some 8 ports, or there could have been additional battery or improved airflow for cooling or even additional NVMe. I feel it is wasted space.

But then again it is just my perspective

[-]

Oerthling@reddit

Nobody needs 8 ports. Making the ports modular means you can have YOUR particular selection of 4 ports. So in your case just make it 4x USB-C.

But every time I see something like a XPS-13 cone out with only USB-C there are comments about USB-A missing and where's the SD card slot for my old camera cards and HDMI is a must-have and whatnot.

This way everybody can have their particular preferences.

And if you only need just USB-C, then you even have the option of leaving the ports empty and use the inner USB-C.

The whole point of Frameworks is to give you the freedom to make it your own.

[-]

JackSpyder@reddit

You cant just make the battery bigger, it stops being allowed on planes and such. You cant hyst add 8 ports of IO due to bandwidth and power delivery. You cant just add more nvme everywhere for the same reason. If you want a workstation buy a workstation. Having 4 NVME slots adds cost to benefit 3 buyers.

[-]

irodov4030@reddit

Framework's battery is 74.45Wh

Battery Allowed in carry on is <100Wh

Please research more

[-]

JackSpyder@reddit

I know. But bigger ones tend to get heavy also. Its more common in 15+" machines and less in the 13-14"

[-]

SutekhThrowingSuckIt@reddit

being able to customize and swap out ports is a huge selling point

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greenlightison@reddit

People keep saying this is expensive, so I went looking but I have not been able to find alternatives with same specs that are significantly cheaper. All X7 laptops I saw are over $2000.

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ldn-ldn@reddit

Why pay more when you can pay less and then install Windows for free?

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Secure_Trash_17@reddit

I'm in Northern Europe, and I just configured one for fun, and chose the cheapest version with 16 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD and no Windows. $2400 🥴

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Lapislazuli42@reddit

I love Framework's concept but as long as they promote far-right developer I'm never going to buy one.

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steakanabake@reddit

far right developer?

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Lapislazuli42@reddit

There have been quite a few articles/videos about it just search for "framework omarchy"

https://gardinerbryant.com/the-omarchy-framework-thing/

https://blogs.gnome.org/alatiera/2025/11/06/dhh-and-omarchy-midlife-crisis/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOhOT_mb7zc

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steakanabake@reddit

thanks for the info looks like youve hurt some peoples feelins

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Ryluv2surf@reddit

framework can stick it where the sun don't shine unless i get my trackpoint or sticking w/ thinkpad.

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PhilosopherClear1319@reddit

Anyone running Mint on one of these? I’m presuming it’s fine.

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Holzkohlen@reddit

I would assume most linux people just get the DIY version that comes without a preinstalled OS

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ficiek@reddit

From what I heard from my friends the quality is very low, wouldn't recommend buying. Most people I talked to have some problems with their framework.

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scriptiefiftie@reddit

the framework philosophy is so appealing to all the linux nerds. i'd buy it, but they don't sell it in india.

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OliM9696@reddit

if they get an HDR screen at one point i will pick one up as my next laptop. Macbook Pro w/ M1 Pro is still going strong. CPU is starting to show it age as i do more and more intensive stuff but for everyday stuff there is nothing to complain about.

Having a battery i can easily replace and potential RAM upgrades in the future is what makes me want to go towards frame work. That said, dell are looking pretty good.

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oliver-bestmann@reddit

Yea, I am also using the M1 Pro with Ashai Linux. I was looking into buying a comparable non apple laptop earlier this year. Forget it. Everything x64 is either slower, or, if comparable, the cpu fan sounds like a small hurricane.

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teressapanic@reddit

I don’t get it: you can get Asus P16 ProArt with RTX 5070 and Ryzen ai 370, 64GB RAM, 2TB SSD for the same price. Why would you go with framework?

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PsyOmega@reddit

The mobile 5070 limits you to an 8(or 12)gb vram pool

Panther lake with 64gb of unified memory gives you a 48gb vram pool.

Ryzen NPU isn't as powerful for AI.

Though i suppose anyone truly serious is getting a 128GB macbook pro for Ai work, but you did ask for an reason.

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teressapanic@reddit

One laptop has the gpu the other doesn’t spec is the same. Unless you want the + chip, then it makes sense.

Thanks!

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Due_Anywhere_6509@reddit

Cool idea behind that laptop, but honestly I'd never buy buy one. It's simply because it's not profitable for me. Sure you can upgrade it. But for the same price that would cost me I could buy a new prebuilt laptop and still come out cheaper.

As for the it runs Linux I have an HP Omen 2020 and whilst I had to fiddle a bit, it runs Linux just fine and I assume most gaming laptops would do so.

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StuffMaster@reddit

If cheap used thinkpads ever cease to exist I will quite figuratively die of sadness.

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theadwaita@reddit

Not to rain on anyone's parade but people are probably buying the Linux version and pirating or using greymarket keys for Windows.

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Kitchen-Scheme-8391@reddit

Marketing is appealing. If you are into linux, they'll be all over your YT feed. I have heard quality is Mac level too. But the price? No, I think I will go with ThinkPads.

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killersteak@reddit

grey? I want a cute unix capable lime green! can they at least throw a vinyl onto it out of the factory...

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AnythingOk5@reddit

Could it be because Windows Home/Pro costs $145/$259 and Framework customers know how to dig a mass grave?

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PsyOmega@reddit

Why are there so many jokes about mass graves in this thread? Is there a windows holocaust joke I've missed?

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Additional-Simple248@reddit

Something about sailing the high seas being dangerous perhaps?

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PsyOmega@reddit

I can read that far into it but why a genocide joke?

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Additional-Simple248@reddit

It’s a reference to a windows activation tool, you might be able to google it to find out more.

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PredictiveFrame@reddit

See here's the issue, fully configured I would value the top of the line, most expensive option as worth (on the high end) $1500. It's currently easily over $2500.

I wish I was rich enough to continue being a computer guy, but I'm getting priced right out of the market for everything but retro tech.

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OnlyCommentWhenTipsy@reddit

I have zero use case for a laptop but the Framework 13 Pro is making me look for one.

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Additional-Simple248@reddit

I have four laptops sitting on my desk and have to frequently remind myself I have no use for a Framework machine.

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DehydratedButTired@reddit

It’s pretty much an open source MacBook. People are happy with the design and how well their have stewarded the repairability of those systems. They kept the world with good design, good polish and they keep addressing the complaints over time.

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ourov9@reddit

well, i bought a linux laptop at first time first because it was cheaper, then i formated and installed windows...

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EdgiiLord@reddit

No one needs you here.

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ourov9@reddit

????

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newaccountzuerich@reddit

If only they would allow people in Switzerland to purchase their product..

The lengths they go to to ensure no swiss-based people get a Framework device is literally insane. If they think you will take a device across the border from Germany to Switzerland, they'll cancel the order on a German card to a German address.

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Rena1-@reddit

Why,?

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newaccountzuerich@reddit

I'd love to know.

They've been inconsistent in responses with different people.

I was told because there were licensing problems in Switzerland (bullshit..) A mate was told they wouldn't (not couldn't) support devices once they left the purchase jurisdiction.

Weird..

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_n3miK_@reddit

lol we're winning

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Masterflitzer@reddit

they just need to give us the 13 pro but instead of 13" 15-16", then i'll buy instantly

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Tele_00_Caster@reddit

Man only if they shipped to India

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reddit_reaper@reddit

Well if it didn't include Windows license it's also cheaper lol we can all install Windows on it... Cough cough

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Sgtkeebler@reddit

I was going to buy one last night. But decided not to because I don’t want to wait until August.

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FaliedSalve@reddit

I'm using System76 now, but really tempted by Framework. Probably pick one up in the next year.

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PartyClock@reddit

Framework makes a pretty damn good laptop. I've had zero problems with mine and the fact that I can open it up and readily repair it myself is awesome

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Original_Recover@reddit

It’s Framework, of cause most of customer will be using Linux.

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evissamassive@reddit

Death to commercial stalkerware, er, Windows.

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froschdings@reddit

Someone who is smart enough to want a framework is also smart enough to either use Linux or use windows without paying eeeh the full price I mean of course

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i_am_tct@reddit

how do I turn off the reddit site wrapper when I go to a link?

I want to give the direct link to someone and I don't want the reddit thread coming up first

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vm_linuz@reddit

I bought a 16" Framework laptop and it's quite good

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SeanFromQueens@reddit

Who are the customers that see easily repairable, with interchangeable components that want lockdown Windows operating system on their device? I am shocked that there are people who want Windows on a Framework laptop.

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jet_heller@reddit

I can believe that. I got one of them and it's fucking amazing.

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dswhite85@reddit

Most linux users aren't sitting on stacks of cash to buy new hardware often, most linux users are not rich and use tech that's usually slighted dated than brand spanking new.

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Leimina@reddit

I'm waiting for when it's in stock without having 4 months to have it to be sure, but 99% it's my next tech purchase. Huge props to the framework team

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chic_luke@reddit

As a long-ish time Framework owner, I am not surprised. To justify buying a Framework instead of a much cheaper competing laptop with the same prices, you have to care about values like freedom, ability to be repaired, user-serviceability and extensibility.

If you already highly value these things, given how much Linux has developed now, given how much commercial operating systems have given in to enshittification even faster than anyone could have forecasted... let's be honest, you already run Linux. And if you don't, you probably have a very specific, legitimate blocking reason why not (for example, you are doing embedded development on a very proprietary platform that requires legacy Windows tooling).

Someone who could be using Linux but is still happily using Windows in what is almost May of 2026 is, quite frankly, not that likely to be the kind of person to care about those values so much, they are willing to pay a significant premium for the love of the game.

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Toto_nemisis@reddit

Goooood.... goood

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medve_onmaga@reddit

isnt it cheaper cause you dont have to pay for the windows license? anyone who orders a laptop like this can probably install his own os afterwards.

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JackDostoevsky@reddit

i'm just sitting here waiting for the new haptic touchpad input cover to become available cuz ugggghhh it looks so good

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MrHyperion_@reddit

Naturally because you can install windows for free on your own but FW needs to charge for it

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ezoe@reddit

I really wish they ship it to Japan. They offers my ideal laptop configuration.

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Elindril1@reddit

I've been thinking of getting a framework laptop but I'm a big fan of thinkpads which are my favorite. I am tempted to get a framework but idk if it's worth it.

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Shiv-K-M@reddit

It's actually make sense when you invest on good laptop, you look for a good OS 😁

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ledow@reddit

I'm not really surprised.

If you search for Linux laptop, there aren't very many options. Sure, you can technically get a Dell with Linux for a certain few models, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

I have a FW 16 with the RTX 5070 and it's great. Does EVERYTHING I need.

My thing now is to remind people that Microsoft said that 10 would be the last version of Windows. And they were right. It was certainly my last version of Windows.

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WafflesAreLove@reddit

Can't wait for the chassis for the 13 pro to become available.

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ryker7777@reddit

Do they already support coreboot and open source embedded controller firmware?

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aloobhujiyaay@reddit

Framework proving Linux users aren’t a niche, just underserved modular + Linux-first = pretty compelling combo

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ModernUS3R@reddit

Once my Dell laptop dies or finds a purpose I'll consider. The upgradability, modularity and linux support is very attractive longterm compared to other brands where you can't do much.

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StickyThickStick@reddit

you can pay over 100 bucks for windows when purchasing it or buy a license yourself for 2 bucks and then install it afterwards.

That’s probably why many people choose Linux over windows

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JackSpyder@reddit

I have a work MBP and thats great as I didnt pay but if I need a personal laptop in the future the framework pro is guaranteed buy. Super impressed with the latest iteration.

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neonwarge04@reddit

What I hate about Framework is that they dont sell in my country. I want that framework 13 pro.

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hidepp@reddit

I just wish they shipped to my country :(

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Michaeli_Starky@reddit

It's a perfect need laptop

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0riginal-Syn@reddit

I have a Framework 13 from last year. While there are little things, the idea and laptop are great. With the step up in quality, it makes me happy to support them. Especially because they are sticking to their word on backward compatibility. I can buy the upgraded chassis, batter, speakers, screen, piece by piece if I want and upgrade my older model. That itself is amazing.

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cyclinator@reddit

How many units is 1 batch?

Do they have numbers on how many of devices they sold?