Expats who learned the local language: at what point did locals stop switching to English on you?
Posted by taube_d@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 128 comments
Been in spain about a year and a half. Speak spanish at around a B2 level now. But for the first year every interaction was the same. I'd order in spanish and the barista would just reply in english. Happened constantly, everywhere. even my girlfriend's mom would sometimes slip into her broken english because "it's easier."
You study for months, you can actually hold a conversation, and everyone keeps treating you like you just got off the plane. gets in your head after a while.
Then a couple weeks ago I ordered lunch at my usual spot and the waiter just answered in spanish. Didn't pause to size me up, didn't hesitate. Walked out feeling weirdly emotional about it.
No idea what changed. could be the accent finally catching up, could be the specific waiter. But it's been happening more often since.
Curious when it happened for everyone else. And for the ones still stuck in the english wall, how long have you been fighting it?
jf932@reddit
Depends on the city. Been here 8 years, speak C2 Spanish but with an accent. In my smaller city, everyone responds to me in Spanish. I go to visit a nearby big city with a ton of tourism and when I say "hola" they switch to English (still hurts a little but much less than it used to lol)
Carolina_Hurricane@reddit
It helped me to start speaking Spanish in South America where most people will speak to you in Spanish until you demonstrate you are not understanding them.
Wonder if it’s a European thing like France they can be quite rude when replying to your French in English without asking.
RockinMadRiot@reddit
I asked a french person this once and they said they do it because they perceive French as overly difficult to learn so English is easier.
taube_d@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I've heard South America is way better for this. A friend who learned in Colombia said nobody ever switched on him even when he was terrible, they'd just slow down and wait. makes sense that immersion works faster there if people aren't constantly giving you an escape route.
The France thing though, that's brutal. Spain at least does it politely. Someone answering you in English unprompted in France feels less like efficiency and more like a judgment call, lol. wonder if it's a big city thing everywhere or actually cultural.
Jinniblack@reddit
This is so true! I grew up speaking Spanish in a Puerto Rican household, but after childhood, I hardly speak. When I was in Peru last year and Panama the year before, people just kept speaking to me, and when I frowned or looked confused, they just slowed down and kept going. No one spoke English to me - even when my responses came after a pause.
But in the country I live in. It happens about 25% of the time, especially when they're pressed for time for whatever reason. But often they make mistakes with numbers, then they switch back - when I ask, oh, it's only 100, not 1000!
OG-Wilford-Brimley@reddit
Yeah South America is great for learning Spanish/Portuguese. You are pretty much forced to learn it and the people are so friendly and supportive about it.
MrsChess@reddit
Nah I’ve lived in France. Everyone was super encouraging and patient with my French. Parisians can be snarky because they’re super busy and there are tourists everywhere. I was in another fairly large city.
ghighoegha@reddit
In Colombia hartly anyone speaks English
lalachichiwon@reddit
I don’t find the French rude, despite my abuses of their language.
Reon88@reddit
I concur to some extent, whenever you initiate conversation in english, openly, without even saying "Bonjour", they will react aggressively.
However, if you begin with broken french and gently ask for either spanish or other language, they might try to speak either spanish or english.
Again, this is anecdotical and being mexican could have influenced their reactions, despite me butchering their nasal vowels
Kurzwhile@reddit
Thank you so much for this observation. I have struggled so much in France. It bothered me that people seemed so annoyed or reactive to me speaking in English. I have also asked people “Parle vu anglais?” and they have been nice.
Knowing that this is not just the luck of who I spoke to, but that I should start with French will help me the next time I’m there.
MiscBrahBert@reddit
They'll still speak Spanish to you even if you demonstrate you don't understand them
thumbsware@reddit
Just speak louder. ;)
Electrical-Media-366@reddit
Lived in small Spanish towns for two years. I arrived with three weeks of A1.1 classes and a Duolingo streak under my belt. Both places had pretty low English levels, so everyone just spoke to me in Spanish and hoped I'd understand. It worked, and I even picked up a regional accent
geryon84@reddit
My partner and I recently moved to Spain and we were afraid being in a small town would be difficult since so few people speak english and our spanish is... A1 for my partner and B1 for me.
So we moved to Madrid, thinking maybe half of people would be able to speak at least a little english.
I don't know if it's just our part of the city, but I'd say maybe fewer than 20% of the people we run in to speak any English at all, so almost every interaction is in Spanish unless the person actively says they're trying to improve their english. Doctors who've said they speak english don't. Waiters, shop attendants, veterinarians, delivery drivers, salespeople... almost always speak only spanish. Any phone call I get or make, even on an english speaking line for my health insurance have ended up being in spanish.
It's been great for improving my comfort with the language, but I'm having the opposite experience from the OP. Now we're rethinking our move to Madrid and starting to look at smaller towns since the language challenge isn't quite what we thought it would be.
Electrical-Media-366@reddit
That's really surprising to hear, tbh. From what I've heard, most people who move to Madrid/Barcelona have a similar experience to OP. In other cities though, I noticed that the experience is more similar to ours
geryon84@reddit
Might really depend on where in the city you are. We're a little north of Chueca in Chamberi, and there seems to be a pretty strong cultural dividing line once you cross out of chueca/malasaña. We always notice when we head just a few blocks south, suddenly there's a ton of tourists who speak english wandering around
Electrical-Media-366@reddit
Oh that's really interesting! I've only been to Madrid a few times and haven't gotten to explore much. I'll keep this in mind for next time
hezaa0706d@reddit
I’ve lived here for 21 years and speak fluent Japanese and yet the woman at the 7-11 tonight hit me with “shopping bag?” while pointing at the English sign on the counter. I blame the tourists. Everyone with a face like mine is not an illiterate tourist.
celle876@reddit
Japanese people just want to practice their English.
yakiimoyasan@reddit
Are you in a quite touristy city? Generally, I find that shop assistants are relieved if I speak Japanese.
RocasThePenguin@reddit
Was gonna comment this exact thing. I can’t imagine not being asked if I want an English menu, even if I spoke perfect Japanese on the way in.
sakurahirahira@reddit
One time my native Japanese husband got handed an English menu just cause he was with me 😂😂
Both_Progress_8410@reddit
I have exactly the same problem in Iceland. I'm mixed race, which instantly means people switch to English when they see my face 😭
Original_Account_908@reddit
it happened to me a lot at the beginning, keep answering in Spanish they will understand. Your self confidence will make them replying to you in spanish, not your accent ;)
BurnoutMale@reddit
Live in smaller cities so they are unable to switch to English
sebadc@reddit
It's not about you. It's about the context.
Do they expect foreign tourists? Then you're just one of them.
Do they expect locals? Then you're one of them.
Living in small cities in Germany, pretty much nobody ever switched to English. I go to Munich and it may happen.
No-Plane9732@reddit
I began my expat life in a place where nobody spoke English, so they couldn’t have answered me in English even if they wanted to. I did have a few jerks who simply refused to speak to me, but most people were happy to do their best with my bad Chinese. It was the best way to acquire the language. I was fluent within a year.
Flimsy-Ad7906@reddit
Ditto
ChoiceCustomer2@reddit
Here in Italy people very rarely speak English anyway so i was thrown in the deep end from the beginning.
LiterallyTestudo@reddit
The only people I get who want to speak English to me are people who want to show off their level of English 😂
Alarming-Struggle722@reddit
Same thing happens to me and I'm Italian. When they hear I was born and raised abroad though, they want to hear my English and other languages.
That_Mycologist4772@reddit
That was surprising to me. Even most of the young people spoke zero English. In the month I lived and volunteered there I had gone from zero Italian to conversational.
Entebarn@reddit
I found continuing in the target language worked best. In Germany, they never switched, but I was in an area where Russian was the second language and few spoke any English at the time. In Sweden, it took 6 months and still some would switch (but I‘d continue in Swedish). Now, in Germany, it only happens once a year or so and I just continue in German.
cloudy-chaos@reddit
I really do think it’s the accent. I’ve been in Spain 3 days and speak maybe at A2 level, but my accent is better, and 75% of people have spoken to me in Spanish until I get that deer-in-headlights look. I do have my Spanish-speaking spouse with me, tho, so that helps with my confidence and accent practice. I’ve also found that saying “estoy aprendiendo español” instead of “entiendo un poco español” has led to multiple waiters/baristas continuing to speak to me in Spanish, albeit slower.
bonitatime@reddit
I’m an emigrant but it took me two years to speak reasonably. Always worked with locals in some shape or other and socialized a lot. Always spoke English at home.
I have the coloring I will always be seen as foreign. We went to El Hierro about 20 years ago when they had almost no tourist industry and the waiters were talking to each other. “No you go, no you “ as they were clearly afraid we weren’t going to speak spanish.
MappyMcCard@reddit
When someone told a joke in the language (a subtle play on words), and I got it, laughed so hard I almost fell backwards out a sixth story Parisian window (people grabbed me) and then no one spoke English to me ever again for the rest of that night or afterward
kevurb@reddit
depends on the country. In spain, they never switched to Eng. In UAE, they never didnt use English (and I didnt learn Arabic or Hindi or Urdu or Tagalog, etc). In Switzerland, family member of partner, locals in the way you’ve described (service interaction), they speak dialect, I speak Eng. In service interactions, we just speak dialect. If they slip into high German, I keep going in dialect.
Electrical-Radish66@reddit
Congrats, that's awesome! I am only at B1, but always keen to practice, so when Spaniards switch to English, I continue replying in Spanish until I'm totally lost 😅
baest_00@reddit
Germany. took about 14 months. And honestly, what cracked it wasn't my German getting dramatically better, it was learning to stop opening with "entschuldigung, mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut," which is basically a neon sign that says PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH TO ME. Every German I met would hear that and immediately switch, not to be rude, but because they're efficient, and if English gets us there faster, they're taking that route every time.
The second I stopped warning people and just started talking, they stopped switching. turns out that if you don't give them the exit, they just go with it. Even if you fumble a der/die/das, nobody cares as long as you keep moving.
Still happens occasionally with phone calls, though. Something about my phone voice apparently screams ausländer.
lalachichiwon@reddit
Helpful anecdote. Here is one I heard in Montpellier yesterday from an expat- say ‘j’apprendre le français’ instead of ‘my French is so bad, ‘désolée,’ or ‘sorry for the English’ - some of my greatest hits.
Boudicca33@reddit
Another helpful trick that I use sometimes is I pretend I don’t speak English…puts them on the back foot and they usually don’t follow up with a question about what other l language you speak
TravelWarm7144@reddit
Honestly I get why that works but it also makes me a little sad that we even need little survival tricks just to feel left alone in peace
Fair-Landscape-826@reddit
I feel this deeply. It’s not even the trick itself, it’s realizing how normal it’s become to need one. As a woman that quiet acceptance hits hard because it means we’ve learned to adjust instead of expecting better.
Sad-Satisfaction4369@reddit
I get why that works but it also makes me a bit sad that so many of us have to act like we’re “unavailable” just to get basic respect and space in public
Willing_Rock9579@reddit
I get why that works but it also kind of says a lot that so many of us have to rely on little “disappear” tactics just to feel safe and unbothered in public
Chemical_Display9445@reddit
I get why that works and honestly as a woman it just feels kind of exhausting that we have to invent little escape tactics just to protect our peace in everyday interactions
HeatherJMD@reddit
I would say, “Je voudrais améliorer mon français,” as a plea to them not to switch into English
If you want to keep with “I’m learning French,” the two options would be “J’apprends le français” or “Je suis en train d’apprendre le français”
lalachichiwon@reddit
Merci
rococobitch@reddit
All the people that comment about Germans switching to English for them was never my experience. They all apparently would rather watch me suffer though my sentences
keeper4518@reddit
Nowadays if people in Germany switch to English, it's because they wanna speak English with an American. I've been fluent for... 20 years now though. Back living here for 11+ years. I let them speak in English, then just keep on talking in German.
Used to do this too when they would switch cause they felt my German was bad. I would simply keep up in German and they would usually switch back.
Still have an accent, but people usually find it cute. Especially my R's. So sometimes they then imitate it because they think it's adorable. Drives me insane. But they don't mean it rude or insulting so I just move on, lol. And... Yeah. My accent is still obvious that I am an English native speaker.
dapete2000@reddit
You don’t necessarily want to be taken for a native speaker. I lived in Egypt for years and once people started thinking I was Egyptian (it falls apart after the first few minutes, to be fair), they started thinking I was really gauche for not picking up on a lot of social cues and unspoken rules. If you’re not a native speaker, it’s usually better to be the foreigner who speaks our language well than to be mistaken for the native speaker who’s a social misfit.
abananatotheleft@reddit
The comedian Paul Taylor has a funny bit about learning french but having a perfect accent so everyone thinks he's French but an idiot.
His stuff is funny, especially if you speak French. I think it's all available on YouTube.
FlippinHeckles@reddit
This is my experience in Zürich, I have been here a really long time. I call it Swinglish we mix and switch all the time with my Swiss friends. It’s more of a cool/funny game bouncing off each other’s languages. I had one friend come up and say “ja schiesse I feel so discombobulated” — my jaw dropped I have never taught him that word. The mother fucker was using a Thesaurus behind my back. 😂
Vigmod@reddit
Pretty sure Germans sometimes fumble det/die/das (or at least det/den/dem), just like Icelanders often use the wrong case (so often that some linguists are starting to suggest that the dative actually is the correct case, considering how many Icelanders prefer that to the accusative, and point at how languages do change over time).
flaveous@reddit
Interesting! I use this line all the time and most people keep talking in German to me. I did use it on a German colleague once, and they laughed and said no one will believe you with that accent.
curious-rower8@reddit
14 months such an achievement. What level german you speak and which city ?
LocksmithOdd3381@reddit
After a couple of years, I notice when native speakers mess up the article. Thing is that they don’t fumble and go back…thy just keep speaking.
Even in my native English, I don’t notice common mistakes as much because my brain is getting all the signals that the person is a native speaker and just rolling along.
taube_d@reddit (OP)
"If you don't give them the exit, they just go with it" is going to live in my head now. I think that's exactly what I've been doing wrong. Thanks for this, honestly. 14 months gives me hope too, since I'm at about 18 and it's just starting to shift.
fraxbo@reddit
This will very much depend on the place you’re immigrating to.
The last time I immigrated, here to Norway, I never had people switch to English at all. Not once. I was at B2 level in about a year.
But Norway tends to be tolerant because of several factors: wide variety of dialects without the impetus for standardization; a large percentage of immigrants, especially in the last 20 years; and perhaps the highest soft pressure of any country I’ve lived to learn the local language (despite them generally speaking excellent English).
The same has not been true in other places I’ve lived or spent longer periods of time.
ricric2@reddit
I have a bakery in Catalunya. I will say that we make an effort to serve people in the language in which they approach us (and we always greet first in either Castellano or Catalan), even if it's pretty difficult, but to a certain limit.
What I do sometimes hear from my English speaking customers is this same complaint about switching to English, but oftentimes the level of Spanish isn't sufficient to complete the order and we're left with an awkward pause where it's uncertain if they're going to receive what they actually want.
If there's a line and it starts out with "Hola, puedes tener un... um, una, um, como se dice...." it may be time to switch to English. We try our best to keep it in the preferred language but just throwing it out there that from the other side of the coin it's often difficult to decide.
The question of whether to switch is also confusing if there's a group of customers and among themselves they're openly speaking English but with me one or two are using Spanish at a lower level. If I need to ask them all the type of milks they want in their coffee or if they want this product heated up or for takeaway or god forbid allergies are involved, it's easier to switch to the common language than to guess if some of them are family visiting from the States and not speaking any Spanish or if they're all living here with passable Spanish. Just my two eurocents.
acoliver@reddit
Three years so far and I'm about a B2. People speak English to me because they want to try their English and they think its cool. English is to Argentina what French is in the US, the language you stamp on something to make it more expensive or fancy.
It really has nothing to do with my level. If I were in the US, I'd speak Spanish to everyone I could just for practice.
Vigmod@reddit
About 6 months in, but I asked everyone "Please speak Norwegian. I understand fine, I just lack active vocabulary. The more Norwegian you speak, the quicker I'll get into it."
Lillemor_hei@reddit
Really? Aren’t Norwegians notorious for speaking in English whenever they can? So few English speakers learn the language because of this.
But it’s a cultural thing, speaking to a foreigner in their language if you know it is considered polite because it makes them feel more relaxed.
Vigmod@reddit
Yes, that's why I had to keep asking everyone.
Also, at the last two places I've worked, quite a few of the people working there really don't like speaking English, to the extent that they think it's impolite of me and a Filipino coworker to chat in English, even when we're out for a smoke just the two of us.
JolyonWagg99@reddit
About a year. I was fortunate to be able to speak German with minimal foreign accent. People usually guessed I was Irish rather than American. Speaking with regional slang helped too. Greeting people with “Moin” doesn’t immediately suggest non-German speaker.
Winter-Most123@reddit
People switch to English when you are visiting places that receive a lot of tourists/expats/English speaking retirees. Those places are easy to avoid in some areas and hard to avoid in others.
When people switch on me I just keep speaking in the local language. I’ve lived in 6 countries and speak 5 languages. I just have the mindset of “I’m going to keep murdering this language until I eventually get it”. So far it’s been pretty successful.
YunnanCafe@reddit
Haha, in China there's no way locals will switch to English at any point. And if you speak two words in Chinese, they will assume you're fluent and they will assume you speak Mandarin fluently.
EcstaticStorm5797@reddit
In most of China I’ve found that you’re right. Living in Shanghai, people switch to English a lot even if your Chinese is much better than their English.
As for the original question, around the time I took the old HSK 6 exam I noticed a lot of people stopped switching to English with me and also stopped complimenting my Chinese. It still happens, but much less often than before.
pearpool@reddit
This AI slop is bloody everywhere.
Ravenrose1983@reddit
I'm not technically an expat yet, took the slow route learning french, but I'm certified B2 level now and my most recent trip the only one who Englished me was my partner there. I was even able to counter the sncf agent in French when I got.
Hofeizai88@reddit
Love in China and so confused about the idea that people would speak to me in English.
Safe_Place8432@reddit
I learned two languages in three countries (Canada, France and Switzerland) and I think it depends on the language and the country.
I went to a French university and speak French at a tested C2 level. French people will still switch to English with me and drag my accent and try to correct me when they are technically wrong (what verb tense follows espérer que depending on negative or not, etc). The shit tests of my grammar got worse as my fluency increased but it has been almost 30 years now and I am like whatever, that's a them problem. I like to say it is why I left France and moved to Switzerland.
Swiss French speakers practically never switch to English on me, and in Switzerland it is only French immigrants who switch on me.
In Quebec people never switched on me, but I was in Quebec City and not Montreal so my experience probably doesn't mean anything.
For German, Swiss people stopped switching once they knew I understood, which was around B1, some even stopped speaking high German to me, which was helpful in picking up Swiss German. Germany Germans tend to switch on me and depending on my mood I switch back.
But yet again Swiss people are more chill about just letting me talk, there's national unity across languages after all.
wapera@reddit
I am in France and was not living in Paris so there are less English speakers. I have by no means learned the language as I’m just at a low b1.
I think in the non Parisian cities people are less likely to speak English bc they don’t wanna and that’s fine with me. So I could to practice more and I got good at the French I needed for the basic day to day stuff. I feel like at month 4 is when I stopped getting anyone to switch to English. And now at month 9 I moved to Paris which has way more English speakers from tourism and I haven’t had anyone switch to English for me except for when my parents visited.
Chance-Ask7675@reddit
Ive spoken French for decades lol and people still switch to English. They hear me speaking to my partner or hear my accent. I improved my French by working in a fully French speaking environment and doing activities in French lol. And I was already at like C1 lol I did graduate studies in French and I'm Canadian.
nadmaximus@reddit
It was immediate for me, in rural France (not because my French is good). In Belgium, also immediate in Dutch, but my Flemish is much better, and learned from locals through conversation. But when we go to the Netherlands, particularly in Amsterdam, service people are constantly switching to English, after the greeting.
But they do it to my wife, too, and she's a native speaker, albeit Flemish. We discovered that in many tourist areas, many of the service people are expats themselves and are desperately hoping to complete the transaction in English.
MrsChess@reddit
I’m a Dutch person and English is basically the lingua franca in Amsterdam these days. I really don’t like that but it’s been happening for a couple of years now.
prettyprincess91@reddit
How do you do this? I’m not even an A1 in French and no one switched to English in Paris or Strasbourg.
In Austria no one switches to German even though o barely speak any German.
People always complain about switching to English but I haven’t figured this out - people will only switch of if I explicitly ask them. I’m a brown looking Asian who grew up in the U.S./UK and mostly speak with an American accent (though at times British).
nixiegirl@reddit
The just wont stop talking to me in English, no matter what I do...
(I moved to London)
tenniseram@reddit
Congrats! At some point I was in a bakery and ordered and she switched to English. I kept going in Dutch. She apologized to me when we were at the register. 🤭
fififolle79@reddit
Luxembourgers are so accommodating that they often switch to English as soon as I speak Luxembourgish. Or find a common language with whoever they are communicating with. It makes it hard to actually practice speaking the language. After a decade my understanding is tipp topp but I speak like a three year old.
It’s an amazing country where people often speak 3, 4 or 5 languages (even working in a supermarket for example).
ultimomono@reddit
When I moved to Spain 20+ years ago, no one ever used in English to speak to me--literally never--I was probably at a B1 level at best when I got here (though fluent in another Romance language) and got up to a C1+ in less than a year of total immersion and study. I guess that would be harder now.
I have a friend who speaks perfectly though with a light accent, has lived here for decades and is a professor at the university here--but she looks very, very foreign (Eastern European blonde). It happens to her all the time now. People just start speaking English to her. Imagine how much that drives her crazy! She just responds back in Spanish and they realize their mistake
grogi81@reddit
The moment you move to UK or Ireland...
Cojemos@reddit
What changed is the person you had an interaction with. They can tell you are not original. The way you look, dress, and/or speak. Add massive tourism and English is the default to get the transaction going. What I do when thrown with English, I reply in the native language with, "Do you speak.....?" Which of course they do and we go from there.
ataylorm@reddit
I’ve lived in Costa Rica for 5 years. I’m white, it doesn’t matter if they just watched me have a conversation in Spanish and then I spoke to them in Spanish, they will still almost always respond in English. Especially in the tourist areas.
winery_bound_expat@reddit
learning italian right now and honestly kind of dreading and hoping for this problem at the same time. my italki tutor says the dynamic in italy is way different from spain or germany though, outside the tourist zones most people genuinely don't speak english so you don't get the automatic switch. it's more like they slow down their italian and wait for you to catch up lol. planning to move to rural tuscany eventually and from what everyone tells me the english escape route basically doesn't exist there. terrifying but probably exactly what i need.
Salt_Bison7839@reddit
When there is a mutual understanding that you speak the local language better than they speak English.
GeishaGal8486@reddit
It’s the accent. I speak another European language and no one ever spoke to me in English. Not because I was fluent, but because I only had a slight accent and probably didn’t sound like a native English speaker.
AccountForDoingWORK@reddit
It’s absolutely the accent. I am about B2 now but in France when I was more A2/B1 I found that people weren’t immediately switching all the time, but I spent some time in France as a teenager and I’ve been told I have a near-native accent, it’s just the vocab and grammar doesn’t match in quite the same way.
Bardo_000@reddit
I know exactly that feeling, but from the other direction. soy de uruguay, moved to London a few months ago, and the English version of your problem is when people hear your accent and immediately slow down to like 30% speed. Or they switch to this weird simplified English like they're talking to a child. I appreciate it, but also... I understood you the first time, please talk normally lol
the waiter moment you described is what I'm chasing. haven't had mine yet, but I'm getting closer. been doing speaking practice with Sky on Praktika since before I moved to at least get my pronunciation less rioplatense and more neutral, and I think it's helping because fewer people ask me to repeat myself now. But London accents are brutal, nobody warned me about cockney
Envy_Clarissa@reddit
From B1/B2 I think, Germany. But I feel like Germans are really tolerant towards people, who learn there language, because the coutnry is full of immigrants.
ledankmememaster@reddit
My god THANK YOU for saying that. I've had that discussion with friends whenever I'm abroad and mess up their language, in that I'm always confused how people not even understand the gist of what I'm trying to say because of some minor mispronunciation. I think German is very forgiving in that. Maybe not least because many people don't speak English at all.
Envy_Clarissa@reddit
i speak with bunch of mistakes, luck words, when needed, and people at work still understand me and want to talk to me, invite me to eat with them etc. it sometimes even amaze me, that i had both internship and job with my level, which is something between B2 and C1. but yeah, germans are super nice about that.
ledankmememaster@reddit
I had a coworker who also learned it extremely quick and it was crazy how she basically understood everything and you could perfectly talk and work with her after just spending 2 years here. There legit are Germans who are harder to understand in their dialect than her. Then she told me she was practicing for her C1 test, that's insane! Not sure how much grammar matters for the C1 level but then again being perfectly conversational doesn't require perfect grammar. So big respect for you as well!
napalmtree13@reddit
In general, when I reached B1. In big cities (besides Berlin), after I reached C1. In Berlin? Like, years after I reached C1.
People still do it on occasion, in niche situations where I don't normally use that set of vocabulary and I need a few milliseconds to put my thoughts together. 9/10 it's someone with English much worse than my German, but I remind myself they're just trying to be helpful.
...unless we're in Berlin, and then I know they're being a dick. /s (kind of)
I know what you mean about the waiter thing, though. Happened to me in (you guessed it) Berlin a few years ago. We were at some small hole-in-the-wall bar with a friend from the states. I went in to pay for the drinks and the guy ahead of me was American, so the bartender was speaking to him in English. I go up to pay and he immediately uses English and I'm about to feel dejected, only for him to suddenly say (in German), "wait, you speak German. We'll use that". I was a little flustered so stupidly replied, "oh, either is fine" to which he shook his head and gave me a little pat on the shoulder (he was a little drunk) and said, "no, no...German is easier". I was elated and have been riding that high ever since.
No-Tune7776@reddit
I noticed it when when I started speaking native German and not Schuldeutsch. Something about talking in the natural rhythm and tone of the locals so that the cues that make you stand out as a non-local don't trigger the switch.
tikubadmos@reddit
its usually the accent + confidence combo. Once you sound like you're not struggling and don't hesitate, people stop switching without even thinking about it.
idontknowmathematics@reddit
Are you in either Madrid or Barcelona? In my experience they only talk Spanish 🫠
Limp-Particular1451@reddit
You guys are way too fucking sensitive.
ponpiriri@reddit
They never did. I prefer to use proper French and that was signal enough that I'm a foreigner and/or old.
fuzzycholo@reddit
They never spoke English. I live in a small Italian city. Barely anyone speaks English here
forest_cat_mum@reddit
I moved to NL in 2016 and I've had all sorts of experiences! There's no point bothering in Amsterdam because everyone is grumpy and just switches to English anyway, even with my Dutch husband (I always take the piss when that happens - his accent when speaking English sounds Canadian, so I always tell him to go back to Canada or something similar 🤣). Where I live and in the surrounding areas are more rural and therefore I tend to just speak Dutch the whole time, which has been instrumental to me learning to get my accent to sound local. Weirdly, I've ended up speaking Dutch all the way through Schiphol Airport and multiple different airport staff have said they knew I spoke good Dutch because of my accent (yay!). I noticed that more people stayed speaking Dutch to me after a year or two, but I will say I'm lucky enough to really pick up languages very quickly and I like the challenge of perfecting the accent. Plus, when I was freshly living here in 2016, my mother in law didn't speak much English at all so I had a steep learning curve so we could chat. My parents have both been learning Dutch so they can chat to my mother in law better, and they do still get picked up as being English and people switch to English for them, but now, I rarely get it any more. I feel like the key is to nail your regional accent and then people are way less likely to switch to English with you!
taube_d@reddit (OP)
Tell your husband, welcome to Canada, lol. But seriously, the accent point is probably the most useful thing I've read in this thread. I've been so focused on grammar and vocab that I never thought about just sounding like I belong in my specific neighborhood. might be the missing piece, honestly.
forest_cat_mum@reddit
My husband often gets mistaken for a Canadian and has done for years, I'll let him know! He grew up watching American cartoons as a kid so his accent is interesting: American-esque but there's definitely a twang that people struggle to place. If you didn't know it was Dutch, it makes sense to think Canada 🤣
I was very good at picking up accents as a kid (I used to mimic literally everything I saw on TV just because I found it fun), so I did the same when I started learning languages. Specifically with Dutch, I tried my hardest to sound like the people I was learning it from (in laws and husband), so I started picking up the accent from this region. I started off sounding weird because of my regional accent from the UK (I'm from close to Manchester and I sound very distinctive when speaking English, I guess that bleeds through to Dutch as well!!?), but eventually I got there. It's definitely also practice, I'd say!
Jamstronger@reddit
Difficult to get over the conversational/fluency hump. Once you’re good enough confidence is everything, even if they switch just ignore them and keep on speaking your new language, they’ll switch back. Also helps to live in smaller places where English isnt spoken as often.
preahkaew@reddit
This is a complex question, and depends on many factors. For instance, if the person you're speaking with speaks English considerably more fluently than you speak their language, they may be reluctant to switch. Or, in some cases they may just want to practice their English, or they may have an inflated notion of how good their English is! So a large part of this depends on who you're speaking to and their perspective/attitude.
Of course, a large part of this issue also depends on you. In my experience (I'm fluent in Khmer, quite advanced in Lao and Thai, and I used to have a pretty decent command of Vietnamese--I'm also a language teacher of Khmer), the most important factor in whether a native speaker will feel comfortable conversing normally with you in their language is your level of fluidity and speed in speaking. Yes, vocabulary and pronunciation is also important--let's assume your pronunciation is good enough that 80% of the time, you can be understand clearly by a native speaker used to hearing foreigners speak their language. But do you speak haltingly? Like you're searching in your brain's database for every third or fourth word, how to conjugate a verb, etc? The faster you intelligibly speak, and the more ease and fluidity with which you do it, is IMHO the greatest factor in determining whether or not they're going to feel comfortable speaking their language with you. Keep in mind that part of this is, if they see you obviously struggling and searching for words, they may want to switch to English to make things easier for you, to make you more comfortable!
This is not something you can rush to, unfortunately. You'll get there when you get there. In the meantime, hang in there, keep learning, and above all, take advantage of every opportunity you can to carry out real-life communication in the language. Also, if you're in a situation where you're confident you can handle the interaction in the local language, and someone tries to switch to English, resist...politely and within reason. Good luck!
willyd_5@reddit
For me it was the accent definitely. I actually spent a few months with a tutor just working on pronunciation and suddenly everyone stopped switching on me. They can still tell I’m not native, but it is good enough that they assume I can actually speak. I think a lot of people heard my bad accent and just assumed I was a polite person who had taken a course or two but couldn’t really speak.
Copy_Responsible@reddit
I have lived in 2 countries outside my birth country. In one country, I had to use the local language because few people were able to speak English and I spoke it fairly well. Now I live in a different country and many people know English but don't really want to speak it unless you ask them to, in my experience at least, so it is helpful pushing me to speak the language more.
Beautiful_Resolve_63@reddit
I find if I jump start the subject, they are fine giving me soft balls of topics and questions. If they start, I cannot keep up.
Started having Dutch people speak to me in Dutch at A1
bruhbelacc@reddit
Two factors, going to international spaces and speaking too slowly. The foreign accent is not everything - I speak with customers, coworkers, companies, financial advisors etc. without them switching to English. Just like we can easily detect an accent, we can detect the difference between a lower intermediate level and someone who has lived in the country for years. And then again, there are bars and companies where half of the employees and customers are foreign, so switching to English is the norm. I've seen a massive difference in the Netherlands between expat-heavy environments and normal companies.
skeeter04@reddit
I would get irrationally satisfied when this would happen - with someone who could actually speak english because in Brasil lots of people spoke little to none so it was more on an exception basis. Probably took me the better part of a year to get to that point but I'm sure Spain is different.
petteri72_@reddit
B2-level speaking—with a reasonably clear accent, good fluency, and solid confidence—is usually enough to keep locals from switching to English, even in Europe.
On the other hand, noticeable hesitation, a heavy accent, frequent grammar mistakes, or generally low fluency tend to trigger an automatic switch to English.
Sufficient-Job7098@reddit
My locals are Americans. I had to learn English when I came to US.
DumpsterSlunt@reddit
It really depends on the language. I speak fluent, idiomatic French with what is usually identified as a Canadian accent, and French people (often with much poorer English) sometimes try to switch to English with me. Spanish speakers tend to be far more gracious. Russians show very little patience for people with imperfect mastery of Russian grammar.
Brilliant_Quote_3313@reddit
Where do you live, in a touristy area?
I live in Valencia myself, and it’s very touristy too. I’ve just started B1.1. I still struggle speaking with my A2, but I’m more or less confident and not afraid of making mistakes, because it’s my third time immigrating and I don’t have the mental capacity to worry about my language anymore.
And nobody switches to English with me. All the staff in cafes, pharmacies, and at my gym speak Spanish with me and are very patient when I reply and look for the right word. Some very kind people even explain what a particular word means when I say “No entiendo, perdona, qué es esto?”
But I think most people in my circle simply don’t speak English at all, and that’s it.
Puzzleheaded-Sun7418@reddit
Funny about your story because my husband had the oposite. We don’t live in any touristic place though so maybe that’s why. But people don’t speak to him in English even when he didn’t know any Spanish xD
Reon88@reddit
France, two years and a half, no french at all upon arrival, currently comfortable at B1.
Outside working environments (the office, job conversations) I can fare myself decently for daily interactions related to food, beverages, market, indications, small talk prior to engage in conversations whenever socializing and switching to english if the conversation is too complex (this has been decreasing lately)
Inside working environment, I do understand 90% of the time everything, but my pronunciation is too bad and my brain hard brakes when it comes to vocabulary, despite sharing quite a lot vocabulary not only with english but also with spanish and italian (which I can fluently speak without problem at native and C1 respectively, and english I'd say C1 as well)
I have had attempts on speaking in french for job related tasks and topics, but it doesn't fly completely between my colleagues, mainly due to the hastiness of the situation. But to me, their english skills are decent yet they complain whenever suppliers abroad (like from Japan or Emirates) do not speak french at all and conversations must go in english, they complain that they couldn't understand the full extent of the conversation but make no effort to improve at all.
I have a couple of colleagues that are more used to foreigners working with them and learning french in parallel, so they are like a "safe haven" when it comes to learning and they do try to keep the conversation in french.
iku_iku_iku_iku@reddit
It's a great milestone an definetly one of those highpoints for me when I pivoted from thinking of myself as expat really was an immigrant trying to put down roots in my adoptive country.
taube_d@reddit (OP)
Never really thought about the difference between those two words until you put it like that. I still call myself an expat, but honestly, I don't know when I'm going back. Maybe that makes me an immigrant who's in denial.
The_whimsical1@reddit
It's a battle. Here's how I've won it. Say in the local language (and memorize this phrase) "I know you speak English better than I speak your language. But you're in my country and out of respect I would like to speak your language as I plan on living here for a while. I appreciate your patience with me." Most people, Spanish in particular, who are overwhelmed with people who lived in Spain for decades without abandoning English, really appreciate it. Waiters can be a pain. They have a job to do and a lot of times dealing with poor Spanish wastes their time. Choose your battles, but every battle won is a step towards victory.
I did this with Croatian, French, Spanish, and German and it worked in every country but Germany because unfortunately I was living there during the Pandemic and I had nobody to speak with. One final tip. In Spain in particular, grammar matters. If you don't get the verbs right you will always speak badly. There's no excuse not to get the grammar right. It might now be perfect but it has to indicate you're trying. People respect this. It's not hard.
taube_d@reddit (OP)
Okay, the grammar part called me out a little. I've been telling myself "communication over perfection" for months, which is true to a point, but I think I've been using it as an excuse to not sit down and actually drill the stuff I keep getting wrong. You're right that people can tell when you're trying vs when you've just given up on getting it right. needed to hear that, honestly.
The respect line is going in my notes. Four countries with that approach is impressive.
3escalator@reddit
Easy, nobody can speak a single English word, it leaves no other option
According-Egg-3131@reddit
Accent and confidence go a long way. Also if you are trying and it's visible that you understand everything, of course they'll continue speaking in their native language. If you're B2 you're already at the level where it starts getting fun once you are with friends that speak both English and Spanish and when you forget a word you switch to English then go back to Spanish
Embarrassed_Sea4297@reddit
By golly, I moved to a rural area in a country and it was "sink or swim" as the penetration of English was roughly 2%. I learned the language in six months. Because I was going to fail in so many ways if I could not communicate. That's the curse of English. Having it as your obvious mother tongue discourages others from using their own language in places where it is there second language.
rdolishny@reddit
It the accent. Good for you! I can't wait to order in Thai.
taube_d@reddit (OP)
Thanks! And honestly, when it happens for you, it's gonna hit different because Thai is so much harder phonetically. That first time a street vendor just answers you in Thai without hesitating you're gonna be floating for the rest of the day.
Familiar_Eggplant_76@reddit
Confident, coloquial A2/B1 for me in Spain.
sausages4life@reddit
Right away! (I moved to Tokyo in the 90’s. Nobody in Japan can speak English at all!)