What have the Balkans brought to Turkey that is actually positive?
Posted by TurkOmbre@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 186 comments
The opposite question is often asked by people from the Balkans, but I’m not asking this as a reaction to that. My question is sincere, with no hidden intention.
In my view, the richness of modern Turkish culture comes mainly from the East: Central Asia, Persia, the Arab world, with some additional influences from places like China and India.
As for the Balkans, I don’t really see any major cultural contribution to Turkey. The Byzantine heritage is certainly there, but Byzantium is primarily linked to Anatolia, so to the East as well, not just to the Balkans.
Aside from the genetic diversity resulting from mixing, I don’t really see what the Balkans have brought that has enriched Turkey.
When I look at the other neighbor at the opposite end of Turkey, namely Iran, I find that its cultural richness is incomparable, far above that of the Balkans combined, and its influence on Turkish culture is absolutely massive and fundamental.
I see many people from the Balkans who are not satisfied with the Ottoman period, and honestly, many Turks aren’t either.
The fact that the center of our nation shifted toward the Balkans because of Ottoman decisions is also something that can be criticized. We would have preferred to focus more on Anatolia itself, developing our own cities and our own land.
In the end, the Balkans can be seen as a loss of energy and resources, without real positive outcomes for Turkey today.
Even today, when we look at the world, countries like China are far ahead of all of Europe combined.
Personally, I feel that the light is in the East, not in the West.
CasperGwamm@reddit
Balkans didn't bring anything to Turkey. Almost everything was taken forcefully. Especially the children.
Fuck the Ottomans.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
The Balkan countries don't know how to govern themselves; all the Balkan countries depend on other countries, a kind of subjugation. You've always known war; you once had a great country like Yugoslavia, but you still managed to screw it all up.
Names-Are-Confusing@reddit
Yugoslavia was horrible for Croatia and Croats had a referendum against it. We wanted to go out peacefully, but the Serbs attacked us. Besides, Slovenia and Croatia have had barely any Ottoman influence as neither Zagreb nor Ljubljana were ever conquered by the Ottomans, so you can only say what you’re saying for Serbs, they’ve been Ottoman for hundreds of years unlike us.
Unable-Stay-6478@reddit
This is laughable.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
The problem with the South Slavs is precisely your tribalistic mentality, and your post proves it. You speak of Serbs as if they were 'other' to you, when you share the exact same ethnicity, language, and culture: the differences are simply regional. Meanwhile, in Turkey, we sometimes seek solutions to unite with Azerbaijan.
Names-Are-Confusing@reddit
You don’t get it. Slovenia and Northern Croatia are completely different geneticall, culturally and linguistically to the other areas of Croatia and ex-Yugoslavia. My dialect(Kajkavian) alongside Slovene is considered separate from the rest of Croatia and ex-Yugoslavia. Our culture has no Ottoman influence and instead we have Habsburg architecture and Austrian(Slovenia)&Hungarian(Northern Croatia) cultural influence. Our traditions, genetics, language, cuisine, culture are vastly different to the rest of the area, probably precisely because we’ve always been under Austria and Hungary while for a big part of history Serbs and others were under the Ottomans. Genetically as a Northern Croat from Zagreb area I’m most similar to Hungarians and Slovenes. Even Czechs are closer to me than Serbs.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Not only does he not get it, he refuses to get it. He'll be spewing his shit again tomorrow.
Names-Are-Confusing@reddit
The worst thing about this is that Serbs and Bosnians propagate it the most, so rest of the world actually believes it. Idc though, I’ll always present facts to these people, whether they accept them or keep being brainwashed and succumbing to propaganda.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Serbian shills are organized and have rehearsed their talking points, which leaves an impression on ignorant westerners and others reading it. They're all over the site, spewing their hateful propaganda constantly.
CasperGwamm@reddit
JFC, man; that's some next level delusions. Do you even hear yourself?
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
You're the kind of guy who uses 'fuck' in his vocabulary when responding online. First, ask yourself some questions, and then if you disagree, offer counter-arguments. I'm open to discussion. Be a little more sophisticated.
CasperGwamm@reddit
You're the kind of guy who thinks he's sophisticated because of your lacking vocabulary.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
That's what I thought; according to you, saying "putain" demonstrates a rich and sophisticated language. I prefer the sophistication of the East to that of the Balkans.
ohgoditsdoddy@reddit
I downvoted you several times, FYI.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Thx
CasperGwamm@reddit
Keep telling yourself all the lies you need to make yourself feel better. Nothing to do with me.
TopObjective754@reddit
I will need to steal this as it’s gold. I need to use it on some other morons, that are not all turks
thatemotionlessprick@reddit
Didnt you reply to one of my comments in which i adressed all your previous points with "lol didnt read"? Delusional....
CasperGwamm@reddit
You're the kind of guy who thinks he's sophisticated because of your lacking vocabulary.
Opposite_Corner8353@reddit
Pretty rich coming from a Turk
pinkoPalinoZ@reddit
Albanians
Just-Big4708@reddit
Balkan itself barely survived to even think of sharing whatever ot got left.I am Arabian, but heavily interested in Balkan and its rich history. I can say that Balkan added more people in Turkey with the poor Balkani girls who were kidnapped, sold, and basically gave birth to a huge number of children. + the whole "child levy" Ottmans were recruiting Christian boys from the Balkans to become Janissary. Those kids were kidnapped, forced into changing their religion too. I am a Muslim from Hejaz, but such Ottomans acts were insane to read about, and absolutely nothing Islamic.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
What you are saying is inaccurate. Intermingling with the Balkans occurred primarily through the migration of millions of Balkan Muslims to Turkey starting in the early 19th century. Intermingling linked to Balkan slavery (which was very limited) represents less than 1% of the genetic heritage. The Ottoman Empire was above all a highly endogamous society.
The Janissaries eventually became the elite of Ottoman society. I agree that the Janissary system should not have existed for the common good. The army should have simply educated Muslim Turkish children instead of recruiting Christian children who would ultimately become disconnected from Ottoman national consciousness; this cost the Ottoman Empire and the Turks dearly.
Otherwise, Persia suffered far more at the hands of the Turks than the Balkans. Persia was under Turkish rule for 900 years, and moreover, the Shiite Turkic tribes eventually converted all of Persia to Shiism. The Turkish influence is much stronger in Iran, and yet I never see anyone in Persia lamenting their Turkish past. Furthermore, they have influenced Turkey more than the Balkans have managed to influence Turkey.
The Persian adventure was extremely beneficial for modern Turkey; a whole aspect of Turco-Anatolian civilization originates from Persia. I observe a significant influence of Persian culture in Turkey, but when I look at the Balkan influence, I see a void, an emptiness, a cultural poverty.
Complex_Medium_7125@reddit
Orban gave the turks the canons that allowed for the conquest of Constantinopol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orb%C3%A1n_(ironmaster)
is transilvania balkan or no?
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Hungary is central Europe 🥲
Beautiful_Limit_2719@reddit
Give an example so we know what exactly the topic of this thread is.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Gastronomy, poetry, philosophy, vocabulary, literature, religion (the Turks converted through Persia). Moreover, this Persian influence is so strong that it also left its mark on the Balkans via the Ottomans. In Turkey, I perceive no Slavic, Albanian, or Romanian influence (or at least very little).
Macedonianboss@reddit
Slavic isn't a nation like Romanian or Albanian, it's a language group so you can't even have influence from it. You're just proving your ignorance like with all your comments + this post.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
You're simply playing with words to try and counter-argue. Meanwhile, Slavic, Albanian, and Romanian influence remains nonexistent in Turkey (except genetic)
Macedonianboss@reddit
Of course slavic influence is non existent cuz there's no such thing as slavic influence. Keep embarrassing yourself
Madafakarza@reddit
Borek, Kofte, Sarma, Dolma, Baklava and yogurt (airan) all came from Balkan to the East my dude. ;))
Wearethesleepless@reddit
Yoghurt..?
Madafakarza@reddit
Yoghurt in its current form is Bulgarian.
The Steppe tribes used a form of kefir, which they took from Circassian tribes... :)
Beautiful_Limit_2719@reddit
Honestly, it’s hard to say, my country wasn’t under the Turks for very long. It was mostly minor conflicts over the centuries, so it’s difficult to see how we would exchange poetry and recipes for Sunday lunch in that kind of situation.
nontikor@reddit
Look, I get it, it's annoying sometimes to get the "you are nothing but cruel thieves and oppressors to us" line from Balkaners. We tend to have warm and fuzzy feelings towards the Balkans, but it's usually not reciprocated. But, you know, they have their reasons for that. So let's not belittle the contributions of people to an empire, and its descendants, that was quite literally colonizing them. Not nice. Rude. Some self awareness is a good thing.
Dull_Cucumber_3908@reddit
food and music at least (for Greece).
BamBumKiofte23@reddit
As the Vice President of the Balkanic Committee, I would like to sincerely apologize for our lack of historical contribution to Turkey's cultural development and publicly commit to doing better. We're currently trying to invent a new type of grilling device, I'll let you know as soon as we have a working prototype.
super_pasrelle@reddit
Can I see it 👉👈 ?
BamBumKiofte23@reddit
Here's the initial sketch
alumidi@reddit
BamBumKiofte23@reddit
yamankara@reddit
Could you introduce some verticality to your design please?
Alarmed-Branch-8805@reddit
Ignorance spoke. Speak ignorance. We are listening to you. Reducing a whole great civilization to low-class people doing grilling fits very well into pure ignorance.
BamBumKiofte23@reddit
Or it's a joke and you can relax. But you do you.
riquelm@reddit
Such a good bait
abhora_ratio@reddit
Yes it was. I read this first thing in the morning and decided to take the axe from the closet and sharpen it :))
Big-Vegetable4550@reddit
He really is a master-baiter!
abhora_ratio@reddit
If your question is serious, first and foremost there wouldn't have been any reforms made by Ataturk without the Balkans as a bridge between secular Ottoman Empire and modern Europe.
Second of all: art, couisine, social behaviour, etc. are not unidirectional in a region. They are part of a transformation process where ideas are shared, blend and the result is something different.
Third of all: gold. Lots and lots of gold and goods and stuff we have paid to the Ottoman Empire so that you can build all those museums that we now visit and have to pay again :))) without that gold and money there wouldn't have been any empire, wouldn't it? Or any huge buildings. Or monuments. Or a big army that you need to pay and transport so that you extend.
And I haven't said anything about the Greek influence regarding art, commerce, philosophy, architecture etc. 🫣 your question is like the Italians asking what did Europe did for them, lol. Would it have been a Roman Empire without the Greek settlements and the phoenician organization? Would they have extended if they wouldn't have learned from all the others around them? Is it their credit for building an empire? It sure is. Would it have been possible without the contribution of others? Most certainly not.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
It is because of our presence in the Balkans and our ties to Europe that we suffered through the First World War, and our nation was subsequently dismantled and then partially saved by Mustafa Kemal. For example, Iran was not dismantled, even though they too had an empire (the West still wants to see Iran dismantled; this idea persists).
We would never have needed an Atatürk if we hadn't become entangled with the Balkans and the Europeans.
Even today, Europe/the West/the Balkans remains in a war-mongering mindset, while the East desires peace and stability. The current wars all originate from the West or from Europeans: Russia/Ukraine, Palestine, Iran.
Turkey's current gold doesn't come from the Ottoman Empire; what is economically linked to the Ottoman Empire was a debt that was eventually paid off 😅
The Greeks are indeed the most advanced Balkan people, but precisely because of this, they are also the most Eastern Balkan people in terms of heritage, culture, and geography. So it's no coincidence, given that light comes from the East, not the West.
PotentialBass3073@reddit
what is "the east" in your eyes, are you actually saying Asia is a more peaceful continent than Europe?
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Yes China, Japon, Vietnam, Turkey etc are more peacefull than Europe.
I am proud to be Asian
PotentialBass3073@reddit
What about the civil wars all over Indochina, ethnic cleansing of Xinjiang, Afghanistan-Pakistan conflict, Sunni-Shia conflict, Kurdish independece movement, Armenia - Azerbaijan war? Or is that all because of the west, lol.
abhora_ratio@reddit
But hey! "The light" is there.. we just don't see it..
thatemotionlessprick@reddit
abhora_ratio@reddit
+Ho Chi Min in Vietnam, the sultan of Burnei, Myanmar and the horrible crimes, Chiang Kai-shek and Mao.. Suharto in Indonesia.. and list goes on.. 🤦♀️ And that's without even having to think about it that much.. But hey! The "light" comes from the east 🤯 Milions of dead people.. milions of futures and lives ruined by ruthless dictators who used propaganda to hide their crimes and terrorize their people..
abhora_ratio@reddit
As per my later edit, please ignore my message. Your line of beliefs is obvious and it would take lots of history books, coffees and cigarettes to make you doubt your beliefs. It is what it is. Reality is something subjective to our internal set of moral beliefs and our limited experience on this earth. None of us is master of the absolute truth and I think all of us should doubt and question ourselves from time to time. Have a wonderful weekend!
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
You haven't commented on my own truth. I suppose you have no counter-argument.
Proud-Ad-5206@reddit
Iran did not invade Europe for centuries, Europe had no beef with Iran. Not an attack on Turkey, just it was what it was.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Oh, so invading Europe is wrong, but invading non-Europeans is okay (which Iran did but wasn't dismantled)? And I'm not even mentioning the fact that the Turks settled in the Balkans during the Middle Ages, just like in Anatolia : so, indigenous Turkish lands, in the same way that the ancestors of the Croats settled in the Balkans during the Middle Ages. You're proof of why I absolutely hate the historical perspective on the Balkans and Europeans.
Proud-Ad-5206@reddit
LOL climb down from your high horse 🤣
Korin23@reddit
The ottomans fought wars with more then 1 European power, plus being influenced by the times of which empires were no longer necessary, so stop crying for long gone empire
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
I'm not crying over a vanished Balkan empire at all; I agree with you: thankfully that Balkan (Ottoman) empire disappeared. Learn to read and understand before responding to people.
Next_League6403@reddit
The generation who founded modern Türkiye were balkanic., nationalism,the new ideas with french revoloution all came through the balkans. Turkish nationalism was the last national movement within the empire.
Balkans were more advanced compared to Anatolia.
There were many statesmen from balkans who done great things for the empire. Janisseries were recruited from the balkans in the begining.
We had troops from balkans (serbs battle of ankara 1402 and some other instances)
Ottoman Empire was a balkan empire. Most cities in the balkans were conquered long before anatolian cities. For example kosovo 1389, constantinople 1453. Ottomans built way more infrastructure in the balkans than anatolia. In protocol rumeli beylerbeyi was more important than anadolu beylerbeyi for example.
Balkans werent a colony. It was ottoman heartland.
Ottomans directed their attention towards balkans because, conquest meant income through pillage. It was prestigious because they were fighting infidels. More and more muslims/turkic tribesmen came to join ottomans for the cause. Fighting with muslims was frowned upon for obvious reasons.
For any sensible cultural influence both sides need an open mind. Turks got more influenced by arabs and persians because we belong in that cultural circle. Christians call Turks infidels we call them infidels. How are you gonna communicate and learn from each other? while looking down on each other?
Big-Vegetable4550@reddit
Oh - I know this one! It's one of my favorite (old) jokes!
"Why is Türkiye so backwards?" "Well, after all, they were in the Balkans for five hundred years!"
But there's a serious point - all cultural exchanges are two ways. Balkan genes are in Türkiye just like Illyrian genes are in Croatia. Balkan and Turkish cultures share common roots in language, food, music, science, poetry. In a conquered nation, there probably isn't going to be a lot of documentation of contributions from the conquered to the conqueror, but it's there none-the-less. And that common culture should be celebrated, like it usually is in this subreddit. Arguing over who invented or contributed what is usually a humorous theme, but more intelligent people realize there is little point in it. Please chill out a bit, OP, and celebrate the positive.
ShitassAintOverYet@reddit
What the actual fuck is this psychotic text?
Also the answer is börek, we got börek from the Balkans.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
No, börek is of Anatolian Turkish origin (the word börek is also Turkish). You find my text psychotic, fine, but tell me, what enriching contributions have the Balkan peoples made to Turkey, so I can change my mind?
Inevitable_Virus_639@reddit
burek, yoghurt, ajvar, doner … . Apparently, people in the Balkans didn’t eat anything—they just survived on water. You guys are insufferable
Smooth-Inspector-391@reddit
He just wants to hear that all Balkan countries owe everything to Ottomans and that we have given nothing to Turkey.
Just tell him yes, there's no point in trying to convince him
Young_Owl99@reddit
Certainly not as big as Byzantine or Iran but you are small kingdroms with giant empires. The Balkans themselves were culturally heavily influenced by Byzantines before us.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
The Turks had direct relations with Iran for only two centuries, and Iran had fewer inhabitants than the entire Balkans. Yet, their influence there was immense and incredibly enriching. In a region as densely populated as the Balkans and Hungary, where trade was continuous for two to five centuries, this influence is almost nonexistent and far less significant than that of Persia, Byzantium, the Arabs, China, or even the West.
Young_Owl99@reddit
Still same thing Iran was an old empire with history that goes back to ancient times. They have been a settles empire for so long. While Balkans were small Christian kingdoms.
It is not the time but the places you are comparing is problematic.
One other important thing is, Ottomans were settled empire has its own culture (even if as a blend of cultures). While the nomadic Turks who attacked Iran were nomadic people that didn’t have settled culture. Time after time in history it is seen that if nomadic or semi nomadic people attack settled empires, the nomads turn into places they attacked. Turks into Persians, Mongols into Chinese, Vikings into Christian kingdoms…etc
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Okay, I understand the reasoning, and you're not wrong. That said, what you're saying could explain 60% of my question; there's still 40% left to explain. Having a small kingdom isn't synonymous with having a weak and impoverished culture. Besides, the Bulgarians had a vast empire before the Turks. And what I also conclude is that the Turks' Balkan adventure was a waste of time and energy. Instead, the Turks could have done something else: developed Anatolian cities, cultivated global diplomacy while remaining self-reliant, developed industry in the 19th century, and so on. Instead, the Balkans have only brought us sources of war for 500 years.
Young_Owl99@reddit
Only reason to conquer a place is to be heavily influenced by its culture ?
Only normal places that we attacked was Balkans actually. It is not normal to attack somewhere and completely transformed by it and we had that twice lol.
Turks should have spend more time with Anatolia but it doesn’t have to do with attacking Balkans. The menpower, the economic and controling strategic land is important itself.
Again returning to my point, you are comparing Balkans with two giant cultural shift of Oughuz Turk history.
If we dive deep we will surely find Balkan cultural influenced but they are not surface level as Byzantine or Persian.
thatemotionlessprick@reddit
You are making a lot of great points! Shame it falls on deaf ears with OP...
Young_Owl99@reddit
Thank you for the compliment!
Fit_Seaweed_7780@reddit
Iranian civilization has a continuity of 6 to 8000 years, it was the "roman empire of the east", its significance is vastly understated by the western historians, and of course it will be more influential culturally than Balkan states that had existed for only 2-400 years at that point.
NoSync22@reddit
Gotta love the irony of the occupier asking the occupied “what did you give me? huh?”
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Iran was occupied several times by the Turks, who were also converted by the Turks (to Shia Islam by Azeris). We can speak of 900 years of Turkish rule (Seljuks, Safavids, etc.), and yet they bequeathed an immense legacy to Turkey. And above all, I have never seen an Iranian lament their Turkish period; they know how to move forward. Very sophisticated people.
Smooth-Inspector-391@reddit
Yeah the Christian subjects tend to be more ungrateful. We're not very sophisticated people
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Not all of them, but some Balkan people (Catholics, Muslims, Orthodox) are indeed not very sophisticated. I've rarely seen Iranians or Chinese be like that.
NoSync22@reddit
On Iran I could agree, but have you actually been to China? I’ve seen things there (in the countryside, mostly) that are completely unthinkable here.
Smooth-Inspector-391@reddit
We sincerely apologize for not managing to reach your standards and recognize the value and the progress that Ottomans brought to us savage Balkaners, progress that all nations envy that they didn't get to experience first hand.
You should leave this unsophisticated sub and join the Iranian or the Chinese one, it will probably match more to your higher intellect
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Don't apologize, the Ottomans failed to bring the necessary civilization to the Balkans; we both agree on that point, the Ottomans were incompetent in that regard.
Adorable-Ad-1180@reddit
He's probably right. but our genetics were pretty desirable so the horny sultan risked it all for white wives and tall strong devshirme
Educational_Aerie129@reddit
Lol. Serbians don’t really look significantly different from turks. And the balkans were already mixed with north african, anatolian, and eastern mediterranean influences long before turks or slavs appeared in those regions.
Adorable-Ad-1180@reddit
Serbian men are on average approximately 4 to 5 cm (about 1.5 to 2 inches) taller than Turkish men.
But its not just height, Serbians and Bosnians, where probably even more wives and jannasaries came from, have very wide shoulders, muscular, big hands and feet. Even the women.
Educational_Aerie129@reddit
Nobody realizes how tall or short they are in the "western world". For instance, all these people on street would be easily mistaken with turks by germans.
https://belgradelanguageschool.com/7-brilliant-serbian-actors-in-hollywood/
AdCurrent3698@reddit
Actually, fair skin is considered to be evolved in Anatolia first. Ofc thousands of years ago but still a win for Anatolia over Balkans 😅
vm0066@reddit
the concept of taking and giving is stupid and you fail to recognise that history is shaped by synthesis, civilizational back and forth, in ways that are very hard to calculate and trace but undoubtedly that synthesis includes the greek civilization. our modern world and everything that exists in it is a product of that synthesis and that obviously extends to turkey too
without greek influence your language's phonetic logic and its script that you write in wouldn't exist as you know it today. many words you use wouldn't be the same. the philosophical roots of democracy, the system your country also uses, were first born in greece. a lot of your country's monuments' architecture originated or was heavily inspired by greek architecture, and modern law, science, maritime navigation, medicine, art and theatre which are things you use and interact with daily wouldn't be the same if greek culture wasn't part of that synthesis
Suitable-Basket6697@reddit
If you think the balkans had no impact to the ottoman empire (and therefore turkish history) you must be blind. The Balkans where much more important than the middle east (economic wise, soldiers wise and also for food), iran was never a part of the ottomans they were enemies most of the time. Without the balkans the ottomans would never have conquered egypt or Instanbul, and 80% of all sultans were South slavic / greek / Albanian. The Ottomans were not a Turkic empire, but a multi ethnic one, there were times when there were more christans in the empire than muslims. So the success of the Ottomans is only partly because of turks, more a combination of all ethnicities. Some small stuff the Ottomans got from the balkans, you can find much much more:
Military & Administrative The devshirme system recruited Balkan Christian boys who became the empire’s most elite soldiers and administrators. Many of the greatest Ottoman grand viziers were of Balkan origin — including the powerful Köprülü family (Albanian/Slavic roots) and Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha (Greek). The Janissary corps, the empire’s premier infantry, was overwhelmingly Balkan in composition for much of its history.
Economic Engine The Balkans were among the most productive agricultural and commercial regions of the empire. Cities like Thessaloniki (Salonica), Sofia, and Sarajevo were major trade hubs connecting Europe to Anatolia. Balkan craftsmen and merchants were disproportionately active in Ottoman commerce.
Architecture & Urban Culture Bosnian, Greek, and Bulgarian craftsmen contributed enormously to Ottoman building traditions. Mimar Sinan, the greatest Ottoman architect (designer of the Süleymaniye and Selimiye mosques), was of Anatolian Greek or Armenian origin — but Balkan artisans built and refined countless imperial projects.
Naval Power Greek and Albanian sailors and commanders were the backbone of the Ottoman navy, particularly in the Aegean and Mediterranean. Hayreddin Barbarossa, the empire’s most famous admiral, was born in Lesbos to a Greek mother.
Cultural & Intellectual Life Greek scholars, Jewish communities (especially after 1492 in Thessaloniki), and Balkan Sufis enriched Ottoman intellectual and religious life significantly.
I would argue without the balkans, the anatolian turks would never have the success they had with the ottoman empire. I like the ottoman empire, and the balkans were next to anatolia the most important part of that empire.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
I'm talking about the positive balkanics contributions today. The Persian contributions, for example, are here and they are extremely positive and concrete today.
and in terms of craftsmanship, the Armenians and the Anatolian Greeks (therefore Easterners) were much more advanced than the Balknics.
and Ottoman urban culture came from the Turks, Anatolian Greeks, Jews and Armenians (almost none from the Balknics)
Suitable-Basket6697@reddit
It does not make sense saying some contributions matter and others dont. Balkan Jannisary soldiers fought for the ottoman empire + the wealth came from the balkans, if it did not the empire would never have reached its might and modern day turkey would not exist as it is today. That istanbul is turkic and not russian/greek is a concrete extremly positive influence, no?
My arguments still stand btw, without balkan conquest (our people, our riches, our Contributions while in the empire) = 100% no Ottoman success = no modern day turkey :)
Also you persian argument: Turks, the asian ones on horseback, not the anatolians today with 10% turkic genes, first had contact with iran. And while they conqured them, they saw that the persians were worlds ahead of them in ruling and maintaining a state and culture in generall. Thats why you Turks have so much from Iran: You first made contact with them and tried to become them.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
But what's with this janissary argument that pops up in every post? The Janissaries only made up 5-10% of the Ottoman army's forces, it's nothing. And the Seljuk Empire was already magnificent even before our conquest of the Balkans; the Seljuk Turks built more in Anatolia in two centuries than this entire Balkan Ottoman Empire did in seven centuries. Seven centuries of wasted energy, all for a fragmented region that serves no purpose for us today, except for the Western presence on our doorstep via these countries through the European Union.
And the argument of a nomadic Turk arriving in a ‘sedentary civilization’ simply doesn’t hold water.
The Anatolian Turks were far more nomadic than the Turks in Iran; even in 1930, a significant portion of the Turkish population in southern and western Anatolia was nomadic. Nine hundred years of coexistence with the Greeks, and yet the Turks remained nomadic (with the same Central Asian culture) for a good number of them until the 1950s. Sedentarism, therefore, does not make it any easier to assimilate into the local ethnic sedentary culture.
Suitable-Basket6697@reddit
Janissaries were the elite soldiers who were WORLD famous, so thats why its brought up so much. Your most famous and effective soldiers were balkaners and not Turkic Horseback riders. Take a look at the ethnicities of the Ottoman Sultans and grand Vizers, they were nearly all balkan origin. The Ottomans were managed by Balkaners lol.
Also all Turks came from the east trough iran. The Anatolian ones and the ones who stayed in Iran.
But i think you are right in one Aspect: Turks really got most of their Traditions, Culture, a lot of Language etc from Iran. They really brought the turkic covilization to the next level. The Success of the Ottomans was built on the Back of the Balkans.
That modern day Turkey exists in the form they do today is thanks to Iranian Burocratie and Culture, and Balkan soliders/Pashas/Sultans.
The Balkans dont serve Turkey a purpose Today thats true, but your whole success is built with/from us and you would maybe speak greek or russian today without us being part of the empire.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
That's normal since they had a Turkish education, of course they're going to be strong, nothing is innate, everything is acquired after birth.
On the other hand, I would have preferred that the non-Turks of the empire not have received this millitary education; moreover, the Balkan peoples found it inhumane, so it would have suited both sides.
The success of the Ottomans was primarily built on the foundations acquired from the Seljuk empire.
Suitable-Basket6697@reddit
True, the ottoman soldier education was from a military perspektive very strong. But without the soldiers who, some forcefully and later some (moslty Bosnian and Albanian) from their own free will, joined the army and dedicated their lives, it would not matter.
This system was very benefical in that time for the ottomans, thats why they did it in that way. Also yes of course, the seljuk empire paved the way for other Turkish empires.
Poglavnik_Majmuna01@reddit
Well for starters not a single Turk would exist if it weren’t for Balkan genes given that on average only 10% of your ancestry is Turkic. You aren’t the descendant of conquering Turks, you are the descendant of the conquered and the assimilated.
Byzantine Empire, including its capital, was Balkan and the population of Anatolia was mainly Greek. The Byzantines shaped the Ottoman Empire to such an extent that one cannot even know where to begin with, literally every aspect of Ottoman culture and society and administration was heavily influenced by the Greek Byzantine empire. Saying that “doesn’t count coz Greek eastern” is just silly and shows you’re actively refusing to acknowledge Balkan influence through excuses.
Now if you’re asking, what have the Balkan Slavs, Albanians and Romanians done for you. Their primary contribution was providing you with around 80 grand viziers that administered over your empire. The greatest grand viziers were of Balkan origin, the Serbian Sokollu Mehmed Pasha was a patron of culture and science that expanded Ottoman influence during its golden age. Rustem Pasha, a Croat, significantly improved the Ottoman struggling domestic economy by funding public projects, from bridges and roads to silk factories and urban settlements. The construction of the suleymaniye mosque, a masterpiece of Ottoman architecture second only to Selimiye mosque, was possible because Rustem Pasha found the money to finance it.
Another key contribution is ofcourse financing your empire, hence why Balkans became the Ottoman crown jewel. It was the Balkans that provided the largest amount of revenue to the Ottoman Empire, much bigger than Anatolia, Egypt and the Levant. Given that everything revolves around money, this was an extremely significant thing that the Balkans brought.
The reason why your question does not get asked is the same reason why nobody asks the human what it brought to the leech, the answer is obvious.
Suitable-Basket6697@reddit
Honestly, if OP would have any knowledge of the Ottomans history, he would not ask such a question. I dont even know where to begin, but you did a good job.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
I am talking about today not ottoman empire
Suitable-Basket6697@reddit
You do know that the past shapes the present, right? You do know the connection between the Ottoman Empire and modern day Turkey, right?
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Seljuk influence is much stronger in Turkey than Ottoman influence. All Turkish cultural achievements come from the Seljuk or Republican period; Ottoman elements are very superficial in Turkey.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
You're exaggerating the Byzantine heritage in Turkey far too much; the Arab-Persian-Turkic heritage is much more predominant in Turkey
I'm talking about today; the positive aspects of this Balkan epic are nonexistent for Turkey. At the time it was good, but today it's absent. Ultimately, the cultural repercussions of the Persian conquest are still present and they serve us well: cuisine, a refined perspective on art, genetics, and reciprocal diplomacy.
herhangibirperson@reddit
Balkaners who only daily basis claim "it wasn't Turkey who influenced us, Turkey stole from us" whenever topics like music, food etc come up, can't answer a simple question without getting aggressive
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
I completely agree; the comments one can read are appalling, especially since I simply asked a question without any ulterior motive. I received very few valid counter-arguments; most of the Balkan (And there are even some Turks in the group, lol) people here deny the facts.
TopObjective754@reddit
Well, let’s talk about what Turks brought to the Balkans: oppression, ignorance, closings of schools, genocide, theft and destruction of historical documents and artifacts. Dis I say ignorance? Ptu
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Before the Ottomans you didn't even have schools
A significant part of your current culture originates from the Turks/Ottomans
The Ottomans also brought about a harmonious coexistence between communities and religions, but you've ruined it all.
TopObjective754@reddit
Where did you see that there were no schools? There was a venetian university in Durres in the 14th century. The part of Balkan culture with Turkish influence includes ignorance and superstition. Communities had existed for thousands of years, and before the turks, the balkans were thriving with commerce. As far as the cuisine, ottomans stole a lot from the balkans, especially from southern coastal balkans like albania and greece
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Yes, so the Balkan peoples have always waited for others (like the Venetians) to build. And besides, you're lying; there were indeed universities built in the Balkans during the Ottoman era, and some are still in operation today.
And in terms of trade, the Ottomans learned nothing from the Balkans; we were already very strong in this area long before the Balkan conquest (we even controlled the Silk Road, believe it or not). Venice had a stronger influence on us in terms of trade (and it was reciprocal) than the Balkans.
TopObjective754@reddit
Yo turdombre, there is nothing wrong with getting universities as part of trade, from a nation that specializes in trade and created the first letters of credit, like Venice. Turks only stole. Anything built in the balkans was built by the people of the balkans, using turkish labels for the names
herhangibirperson@reddit
"The evil Turks commited a 500-year long genocide and r*ped all our women and forcefully Turkified-Islamized us but we kept our culture because we are STRONG" ass bs
TopObjective754@reddit
In this case it’s because we were smarter. Check the Bektashi sect , it’s practically a Christian based religion that allows saints, alcohol and marrying one wife. The Janissaries just changed the labels into arabic sounding names, so they could advance in the military
thatemotionlessprick@reddit
Janissaries...
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
The Janissaries did more harm than good: they repeatedly caused political instability. I have nothing against the Janissary system of that era, but recruitment should have taken place in Anatolia, not the Balkans. When young Osman wanted to move the recruitment center to Anatolia, he was killed by the Janissaries. Yes, in other countries the people execute their monarchs, but in our country, foreigners had more power (and today their descendants complain more than we do about that period, lol). In short, everything from the Balkans is, in my opinion, very mediocre compared to Anatolia and the East.
thatemotionlessprick@reddit
Its incredible how much this comment is divorced from reality... "I have nothing against the janissary system"? You are aware of the fact that the boys were kidnaped, not recruited, right? They were taken from their beds, in front of their parents, mutilated, and their culture and herritage completely wiped.. But that aside. Janissaries were at the time one of the most elite and formidable forces that gave the Otomans much of the Europe they occupied. The fact that they had political instability is mainly due to the inflation of the Janissary corps over the years. They just couldnt stop eating that cake, and then their tummy was hurting. So, no it wasnt the Janissaries that were the problem, it was the poor planning and governance.
More_Ad_5142@reddit
Umm, in that era, parents in England and much of Europe was leaving their children that they cannot feed in the forests to die. A totally different era. Your narrative “taken from their beds, mutilated” is just melodramatic at best. Slavery was so common all over the world in that era that children were bought and sold like chattel. Your 21st century children’s rights understanding does not apply to the 15th, 16th, 17th century.
thatemotionlessprick@reddit
Mhm, and this argument makes perfect sense because of the similarity between the Brittons and the Balkan people. Right. About the devširme shit - if your school history books say this was a willing or a peacefull process, and you still believe that, maybe its time to reevaluate your morals, sense of humanity, and rationality. It was known as "danak u krvi" - tribute in blood, which tells you this is not like giving a stray cat away, like the people you mentioned in your comment. Many folk poems mention mothers cutting their male babies finger off so that they would not be taken away. And if you, perhaps rightfully, again say this is dramatization - bro just google how many revolts against the otomans happened preciselly because of the brutality of this system.
More_Ad_5142@reddit
lol, I didn’t say its peaceful or willing. I just argued that you are projecting your modern perceptions to an era that was 5 centuries ago. In your case, it’s just melodramatic conjecturing. You seem too emotional and just a few posts away from spewing hate speech against Turks so let’s end it here 😂
thatemotionlessprick@reddit
Yeah, im getting slightly annoyed because you and OP are being obtuse and relativising things. OPs stance comming to this sub was "what did you balkaneers contribute to us, the ocupiers?". The Otomans didnt invade other teritories because they were yearning to learn or exchange cultures, they came to opress and exploit. The culture and customs of the ocupied people were largely erased, religion suppressed, and then the descendants of those people come back hundreds of years later with a shitty attitude and say "we gave you everything, what did you give us?" Bro, give you what? You destroyed most of our cool shit. And the kids part - ofc there was a completely different attitude towards children a few centuries ago, but using that arguement to try to say that it was not that bad taking those kids because eh in brittain they would leave them in the woods... yeah, both obtuse and relativising at the same time. But everything i wrote you can easily google and try to educate yourself on your actual history. And I dont hate Turks, or any other nationality, dont just assume that shit. I do hate the colonialists, and the colonialist mentality tho.
TopObjective754@reddit
I like you! Unfortunately there is no hope with OP, or as Forest Gump said, stupid is as stupid does
abhora_ratio@reddit
🍻
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
You're just reading part of my post, I said ‘I have nothing against the Janissary system of THAT ERA’ THAT ERA.
The Janissaries sometimes raped women and killed men, including Ottoman leaders; they were corrupt. It certainly wasn't the Ottoman authorities giving them these orders. You can't impose a moral value (by saying, "Oh no, it's wrong, but how cruel they were, abducting children!") on a system that dates back to the Middle Ages. In the Middle Ages, the Balkans experienced atrocities far worse than the Janissary system; Slavs replaced 60% of the Balkan population, and only Romania, Greece, and Albania resisted them. I have nothing against the Janissaries themselves at that time, but this recruitment should absolutely not have taken place in the Balkans; I would have preferred to see Turks recruited, and this system should never have been run by a Balkanian, since that was unfortunately the case, and in the end, the system was corrupt and anarchic.
And what you're saying is wrong. The Janissaries were much better off than the average Turk; after their retirement (at 30 years old), they became the elite of the empire. The Ottoman Empire should never have allowed such a thing; elite status should have been reserved only for Turks and other local Anatolians (Armenians and Greeks).
thatemotionlessprick@reddit
Okay, noted. But your point on recruiting from Anatolia is strange. These people were in fact recruited into the Otoman army. They were the majority. You know, the regular army. Its just that the Turks were not as good as those Balkan boys ;) Also, complaining about their corruption - remember: these were perfectly normal happy kids once. And then they were taken from their land, completely reeducated and trained to be killing machines. So to complain about their corruption is to only complain about the culture of the Otoman empire, cause thats where they picked it up from. So maybe a better analogy would be to shit in your cake before eating it. And i didnt claim that they were not having an elite status in the Otoman society, that is more than a well known fact. My point was: there were about 1-5 thousand Janissaries in the 15th century. This is when the Constantinopole finally fell, with the large help of the Janissaries. In the 17th century there were close to 40k. Thats 8 times more.
Also, when you say "balkans had worse", remember that with the whole Janissary system came the rest of the Otoman ocupation, which had far worse effects on the Balkans than the migration of other populaces ever could have.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
You're clearly lying because the Janissaries represented 5-10% of the Ottoman army's strength. And the rest of your post, sorry, but I didn't even bother reading it.
OkArmy8295@reddit
We totally agree, please stay in Anatolia and dont come ever to Europe
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
That's what we've been doing for two centuries, yet you still manage to complain. Furthermore, demographically, Balkan people have settled more in Turkey than Turks have settled in the Balkans. There must easily be several million descendants of Serbs in Turkey.
OkArmy8295@reddit
So you may be a Serb too. I can only see you complaining here btw. Have a nice day and relax
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Yes indeed, and that proves once again that I can be objective: potentially I may have Serbian origins (as you said) and yet I admit that Serbia has brought us nothing enriching.
I am completely relaxed and have no hidden intentions., I said it in my first post
Reasonable_Boss8060@reddit
Ask what you can do for the Balkans, not what Balkans can do for you. Also, please return Constantinopole.
herhangibirperson@reddit
The only thing you can get from us is a middle finger
Reasonable_Boss8060@reddit
Imagine stealing from Balkans for 400 years, then asking “what have YOU contributed to our empire???” I don’t know, we came with the land, people, gold, and so on. Even the administrators were greek and armenian, so…
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
The problem is that when the Slavs arrived in the Balkans, they brought nothing good. They brought war, instability, and a very brutal population replacement, to the point of becoming the majority and causing the local disappearance of the indigenous population. The Ottomans contributed far more to the Balkans than the Slavs.
Puzzled-Call3724@reddit
I have carefully read the poster’s responses in this thread. He is a conservative, Erdoganist, looser, hater. Anyone who had any kind of interaction with Erdogan fans would easily feel this with 100% accuracy
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Accusing people of being "provocative," "pro-dictator," or "nationalist" has become a new trend. Absolutely none of my posts promote those ideas. If you have reading difficulties at your age, that's your problem, not mine.
sasvim_nebitan@reddit
Probably the Bulgarian/Greek yogurt
beneksiz@reddit
You dont know what you are talking about. Even the word yoghurt is turkish and comes from “yoğurmak”
What a stupidity.
Smooth-Inspector-391@reddit
Just because the word is Turkish doesn't mean its origin is
sasvim_nebitan@reddit
It actually comes from an ancient Illyrian/Albanian word jogurti, which later entered the Turkish language
beneksiz@reddit
You need to learn more about it. Maybe ask chatgpt.
Bro we are using yoghurt with ten thousand different recipes and other things. Most people makes his own yoghurt at home here. I dont see any countries in the world consuming like this.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
There's no point in debating this issue with these people; everyone knows the answer : Yoghourt is turkish
notnotnotnotgolifa@reddit
Yes yoghourt but yoghurt is albanian
Gloomy-Succotash-256@reddit
What's wrong with you guys lol The guy who claims greek/bulgarian/albanian origin of yogurt is obviously being sarcastic 😅
beneksiz@reddit
Bro we got rid of our food stolen and yogurt is our last castle. We need to defend it. No jokes about it please😅
sasvim_nebitan@reddit
Exactly haha
Also, it's weird to claim that yogurt is Turkish or Greek or Bulgarian etc, when it was popular thousands of years before these nations even existed.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
No yoghurt is Turkish
Vdd666@reddit
Yoghurt is from the neolitic...stop thins nonsense
Odiumhumanigeneris@reddit
Oh c'mon, "making moonshine in subtlety to bypass bans on wine and beer during the reign of Murad IV and such" is the best and if not the biggest contribution in the entire history of Anatolia. Anayone who disagrees can just off themselves. period.
HansDerVogel@reddit
We contributed keeping their goddamn empire on it's feet for c.a. 400 years
Fit_Seaweed_7780@reddit
I can totally see your point, but it's not taking into account the level of destruction you brought to us. It's not up to the exploited, robbed, destroyed smaller nations to owe you anything cultutal when you took our people to fight for you, and our taxes for your sultans. You were the ones that came to us, destroyed us for 5 centuries, didn't allow for anything to flourish here, took giant taxes, enslaved our little boys, all while Italy had reneaissance, Spain was exploring the whole world, Germans were exporting innovative agricultural and mining methods around Eastern Europe, Dutch were trading with the whole world. And the whole western Anatolia was actually Greek up until WWI, so all that ancient stuff in Anatolia was Greek and therefore in a way Balkan.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
The Iranians were under Turkish rule for 900 years, they bequeathed us an enormous cultural heritage, and today they don't mourn, they move forward. And you're lying when you say that the western part of Turkey was Greek until World War I. In no Anatolian province did Greeks make up more than 25% of the population. Controlling Slavic territories brought us absolutely nothing, a 500-year void during which Turkish culture remained untouched, because even the Chinese have managed to influence us.
Fit_Seaweed_7780@reddit
Iran and China are civilizations of millions of people with a continuity of more than 5000 years, of course they're gonna be more influential than Slavic tribes that only had mini kingdoms with very small populations for 200-400 years. You are taking for granted how deeply Greek-Anatolian culture shaped you along with Arabic Islam. What has even remained of your original Turkic nomadic warrior culture?
Excellent-Amy-1893@reddit
This is a provocative post, regardless that you said it isn't, because what you asked was : ,,what did the people that we conquered and considered weak enough to bow to us, contribute to our culture that we already had and didn't want to change? " unbeliavable
Educational_Aerie129@reddit
The question is based on a flawed premise. The balkans, the eastern mediterranean, anatolia, and north africa were already deeply intertwined culturally and demographically long before the large-scale turkish and slavic migrations. In that sense, it’s not really about “bringing” things to turkey, because many of these influences were already there, you took things from turkey. One of the most noticeable regional differences I’ve observed is in turkish thrace, people there drink more and balkan-style music with romani influences is much more prominent compared to the rest of turkey. This is interesting, especially considering that balkan migrants didn’t only settle in Tthrace but also spread to other parts of the country. Besides, trust me, anyone in western europe or north america can recognize what balkan culture is like. Turks are familiar with it and to a certain extent so are slavs.
Turkish_Teacher@reddit
Unnecessarily provocative post.
Does Roman architecture count?
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
My message may seem provocative, but that's absolutely not my intention! I'm simply asking a question that deserves to be asked: what have the Balkans contributed to Turkey after 500 years of interaction? Let's not get carried away; if I'm wrong, feel free to prove me wrong. In my opinion, the interactions (albeit shorter!) with Persia, the Arabs, Central Asia, and even China have been far more enriching than the interactions with the Balkans.
Roman architecture didn't originate in the Balkans.
Turkish_Teacher@reddit
The interactions with Iran, Arabs and "Central Asia" are clearly older though.
Semantics. Ottoman architecture is heavily inspired by Eastern Roman architecture which was developed by a Greek-speaking culture.
serkans_@reddit
Gypsies. Balkans give Gypsies to Turkey.
I know they are originally from India but for a long time they reside in balkans thus came to Turkey.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
So even when it comes from the Balkans, it's not really of Balkan origin. 😅
serkans_@reddit
Yes, i can tell what balkans give to Turkey constantly that is balkan origin:
Cold air flow with high possibility of snowfall 😂
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Well, on the one hand, we need snow to replenish our groundwater, so I'm not going to complain about that.
You've just offered the best counter-argument. Bravo 😄
serkans_@reddit
I can also add squatting gopniks. Not historically much but turkey imported these high tech assets recently.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
There must be a law in countries exposed to Balkan influence (Türkiye, Austria, Sweden etc.) to limit all cultural imports from the Balkans lol
serkans_@reddit
Well, i personally prefer squatting gopniks over kurdish. Balkan cultural imports are better than middle eastern cultural imports for me.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
The Kurds are an Ottoman invention; there were no Kurds in Anatolia before the Ottomans. And the Ottomans were heavily Balkanized, lol. Even the Kurdish problem in Turkey has a Balkan origin, lol.
serkans_@reddit
No no, this is not true. Kurds are iranian origin. Ethnic group cant be an invention, kurds are indigenous group of people.
Kurdish problem has nothing in common with Balkans. If there is a problem thats turkeys problem more than anything else.
ahmetcihankara@reddit
Soka and ajvar
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
Ok but even when it is balkanic the name is Turkish lol Ajvar = from turkish word havyar (in fact it is persian but anyway)
ahmetcihankara@reddit
Havyar is something else, ehat are you smoking
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
You're the one who smoked. Ajvar comes from the Turkish word havyar (although it's something else: fish roe). Ajvar comes from havyar because it was, in a way, a luxury item. Instead of accusing others, do some research first…
ahmetcihankara@reddit
The fact that its name originates from havyar (caviar) doesn't mean they share the same meaning today. Ajvar is a red pepper sauce, not fish roe. By your logic, our 'kuskus' would be the same as the original Maghreb couscous, or sorbet, sherbet, and 'şerbet' would all be the same thing. You need to learn about false cognates dude
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
I never implied that, learn to read. Clearly, a lot of people here have reading difficulties.
Puzzled-Call3724@reddit
Question is not valid. Ottoman was a Balkan empire. Balkan region was already their inner circle. This question could only be valid for externals. Balkans were our internal
Young_Owl99@reddit
It is valid. His point is Turks conqured Iran, heavily Persenized, conqured Byzantines, heavily Romanized, conqured Balkans…
Historical-Wear-9948@reddit
Serbs helped you take Istanbul. Bosnians make better Burek than you guys. I rest my case.
Voldypants_420@reddit
As a Turk, what are you smoking bro?
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
As a Turk, why are you unable to provide counter-arguments?
Voldypants_420@reddit
Why would I bother bro? Why would I spend my braincells playing chess with a pigeon?
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
It might be because you lack the ability to provide counter-arguments. People like that hide behind accusations of what they themselves are. A bit like homophobes who are often homosexual themselves.
Greetings
Voldypants_420@reddit
Now bob your head walking on the chess board.
Ok-Wafer9808@reddit
Baklava, it is actually Serbian dish as everything else you make from dough like that, sarma, Gyros from Greece they ised to make donner. Bulgarian yoghurt.
KhanofSeljuks@reddit
You are a better troll than OP I will give you that.
TurkOmbre@reddit (OP)
No Baklava, Yoghurt etc have eastern origin (Middle east, Central Asia)
Beautiful_Limit_2719@reddit
And what have you brought besides despair? You didn't even build mosques. The Moors ruled the Iberian Peninsula for centuries before the Turks in the Balkans, so they left them beautiful buildings in Spain.
vkovacevic@reddit
I don't think there's anything physical that I can name BUT if it weren't for us, Turkey wouldn't be in the gray zone of wether they can be fully considered a Mediterranean/Middle-eastern/Islamic/Turkic country.
beneksiz@reddit
You dont know what you are talking about. Even the world yoghurt is turkish and you are using it.
42not34@reddit
I can see the "What the Balcanians ever did for us", Monty Python lives rent free in my head.
ImamTrump@reddit
Ignorance
/s go fight each other In the comments