For Airline Pilots who did Part 141

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willflyforboatmoney@reddit

It’s more about the individual pilot.

Not at the airlines, yet, but have taught both 141 and 61 (currently at a small 141 college program). I’ve seen good and bad at both. 141 students who could recite checklists and SOPs in their sleep but couldn’t fly or make decisions worth a darn and 61 students with excellent adm and stick and rudder skills but couldn’t be bothered with using a checklist..and everything in between

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RydeOrDyche@reddit

Got me into the airlines at 1004 hours which was cool.

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skyHawk3613@reddit

It didn’t help me at all. It’s all a gimmick, to hype you into thinking about the airlines

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dynamic_fluid@reddit

Thing is, that 141 stuff like SOPs and callouts are things you need to relearn at each new company you fly for, and it’s fairly straightforward.

The more important stuff to learn during training are things like situational awareness, decision making, and stick-and-rudder skills. You learn these skills from practical training which can be done just as well, and I think often better, at a 61 school.

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Pilot0160@reddit

The soft skills definitely translated well. You’re already used to flows and aren’t tempted to grab for the checklist immediately each time. The one I went to used the same checklist and manual style as the airline so we knew how to navigate the company documents well before indoc. And if you knew where to look on SharePoint, you could find all the official training department materials.

My 61 colleagues caught on quickly but some of the soft skills and company specific stuff we definitely helped coach them on because it was engrained in us for a couple years already.

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JasonThree@reddit

The only part that translates was the concept of flows. Checklist usage and "theory?" I guess you could call it are different, training you are single pilot so you flow or read and do the item, then read the checklist to yourself, where the airlines you each do your tasks then the FO/PM reads the items and you each respond when needed per each checklist item. Callouts are callouts. Each company and fleet has different callouts. I guess the concept of callouts could be beneficial when taught at a 141?

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bae125@reddit

I went through a small 141. No uniforms or standardized checklists. I did it for reduced hours and hit them all. It was worth it. If they had uniforms I wouldn’t have gone there

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Torvaldicus_Unknown@reddit

it was in fact, nothing like the airlines

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TSwiftIcedTea@reddit

I felt extremely prepared in training at my first airline, as did my 141 peers. Approximately 20% of my new hire class experienced a PRIA reportable training failure and 1 was fired. Of that group, all were 61.

Separately, I am unaware of a single person from my 141 who has ever failed out of an airline training program.

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Affectionate_Aspect4@reddit

You think your training class was 80% 141 college graduates? I figured it would be 40/60 at best with 40 affording the expensive route. That's rough 2/10 were self pays lmao.

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TSwiftIcedTea@reddit

I’m not sure what the ratio was. Could have been 40/60 like you said. All I know is the 141 hires had no issues and those who had problems were 61. Plenty of 61’s who passed without issue.

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Affectionate_Aspect4@reddit

Hell yeah. Congratulations on passing, I'm sure it isnt crazy easy to pass all that stuff even with 141 background. You all did what you needed to do to take it serious and kick ass.

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mfsp2025@reddit

I think what helped the most was the stage check and TCO type training. I was expected to review the TCO prior to every lesson and come prepared knowing the maneuvers and what was going to be covered.

This is exactly the same as the airlines. I am given the ILP (instructor lesson plan), expected to review it beforehand, and just practice stuff in the sim. Furthermore, our “validations” in the airlines feel similar to “stage checks” from part 141.

My flight school did emphasize callouts and flows in our tiny plane and I mean sure, it helped a bit. But the most useful thing was the LOFT course I had to take (I went to a university). That course taught me everything from PF/PM duties, who owns the guidance panel during what stages of flight, how flows actually work, etc. And like the other guy said, I haven’t seen one person from my school wash out from training. We all thought training was a breeze and didn’t require even one extra sim.

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Affectionate_Aspect4@reddit

I wouldn't waste 100k+ on it.

I'm all in zero to CFII siting at around 47k, sure I'll need mei, but other than that it'll pretty much be tied up. That other 50k-75k could definitely be used to load off a lot of that pressure when trying to hit 1500, and an ATP. 75K with however many safety pilots as it takes, could get someone to 500 Multi, and land a 135, if anything during a competitive market. We're all basically buying a job, don't let a company snatch 135k from you.

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sniper4273@reddit

I mean, yeah the concepts of Flows and then Checklists were the same. And I didn't really struggle with FMS or autopilot stuff.

But I don't know how much of that is Part 141 and how much of that is me being a total nerd.

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Wedge_Donovan@reddit

I'm guessing there are zero non-University 141 programs that have access to an airline-style FMS, let alone teach you how to use one.

Maybe a handful of university programs do. Hell, the Expensive-Ridiculous Aeronautical University probably charges $5k to take a class on FMS programming or something.

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sniper4273@reddit

I did indeed take an FMS class at Riddle :/

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TraxenT-TR@reddit

Yeah I had to learn, and had to teach, said "SOP" and "Checklists" and "Callouts" for like 6 years. I mean I guess it helps.

By the time you make it to an airline, you'll maybe have an slightly noticeable easier time being able to read a checklist with the other pilot or to say an callout and perform an action (Like Speed Checked, Flaps XX and set the Flaps to XX).

That should not be the driving factor 141 versus 61 or whatever. There has been and will be many many many 61 cowboys who didn't have official callouts for every little fucking thing in a Cessna that will easily pass airline training and figure out how to do a callout and action etc.

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Ok_Witness179@reddit

being able to read a checklist with the other pilot or to say an callout and perform an action (Like Speed Checked, Flaps XX and set the Flaps to XX)

Well, that's the funny thing about all the 141 schools I've been to. None of them do it like the airlines anyway. I guess they cant- student has to be able to do it alone so they can solo 🤣.

There's no replies to checklist items, there's no separation of pilot flying/monitoring duties, etc.

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baileyx96@reddit

141 I’m instructing at just changed their commercial curriculum to include a “crew checklist” and different crew senecios to be “more like the airlines”

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Tman3355@reddit

The studying and checklist habits translated well. My first regional you would fail out if you didn't have your flows memorized by the end of cpt. That kind of pressure was similar from my 141 days. Also learning how to train on someone else's timeline that doesn't revolve around your own where as 61 is more tailored around your schedule and pace.

But the airlines are good at bringing those that arent 141 up to speed and I had many classmates that came from all sorts of 61 schools. And ill also admit I didnt really learn how to fly till I did lessons under 61 for cfi/II. That environment gets your head out of the book and into the flying itself.

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hawker1172@reddit

Best airline pilots in my experience are Part 61. Some missing fundamentals due to the fast paced rigid nature of Part 141.

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TK3K216@reddit

I went to a 141 airline school. It helped, no surprises with anything like callouts or flows and all that stuff. But my 61 colleagues caught on quick enough that it didn’t really matter in the long term if you’re a capable learner and pilot.

Honestly the biggest thing that helped me was the expectations for how much to study and how much to know were significantly higher than the checkride. I’ve always been over prepared because my 141 was a bit overkill in their expectations to the point where I couldn’t believe how easy the training/checkride was.

Really it’s the pilot not the training program. We had plenty of people who made it through that I would be hesitant to share the flight deck with.

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DefundTheHOA_@reddit

They had 0 positive impact and only caused people to have a big ego

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120SR@reddit

Ya it’s pointless, you bought into it off an assumption and they’re making money off of said assumption

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c402c@reddit

It did make it easier for me when I got to my airline. Same study habits and routine. Worked for me.

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spitfire5181@reddit

For me it did make it easier and it just becomes normal. Do you need it, NO, plenty of pilots make it through airline training without the background knowledge. But it is one less thing you have to think about when you're doing your first type rating.

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RaiseTheDed@reddit

Most callouts are pretty unnecessary in pistons. Yeah, there are some memory aids that are good and will save you embarrassment (GUMPS and landing gear up....) I don't remember most of the callouts my school had. Some things are good to verbalize, but some of the anal structure is over the top.

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EliteEthos@reddit

It’s 100% hype. You’re wearing that uniform for nothing.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Hello all,

Currently, I am going through flight training at one of those "just like the airlines" flight schools. I have no experience outside of the procedures and SOPMs of our school. We have a stupid amount of callouts and such, as most of those schools do.

If you're an airline pilot and you did one of these types of schools how much did their training style and "airline style" environment actually help in terms of the onboarding and initial training for working at an airline?

Thank you!

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