The Tesla Model S Is The Most Important Car of Your Lifetime — Revelations with Jason Cammisa
Posted by SireEvalish@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 303 comments
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NewRefrigerator7461@reddit
I was blown away when he said they started developing the touchscreen before the ipad was released.
dunkelblaugrau@reddit
am I the only one who didn’t know Jason was gay?
MildlyUnhingedNPC@reddit
Where did that come up
TrueSwagformyBois@reddit
Cammisa has a lot of great takes. A lot of interesting takes. I think the danger of putting Tesla on any amount of pedestal is more dangerous than there is value in recognizing where their engineers have been effective. Because no matter how much the guy who famously says “all cars are political” says that he can separate the politics from the car, I don’t believe that there are many people in the audience who can.
MildlyUnhingedNPC@reddit
Yikes
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
His cyber truck video was so hilariously bad and then his TST podcast just drove the nail in how deluded and assholish he was on that topic. I can't believe so many were slobbing his knob about that appearance.
snoo-boop@reddit
Not to kink shame, but there's probably a better sub to discuss your sexual fantasies.
wiscotangofoxtreat@reddit
There they go again
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
"I think the danger of putting Tesla on any amount of pedestal is more dangerous than there is value in recognizing where their engineers have been effective."
If you hold every OEM to that standard, you would never be able to recommend anything.
Cammisa did a 90 minute tribute to Piech, did you have significant reservations about that one as well?
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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TrueSwagformyBois@reddit
Nope, in part due to the Piëchs being the Jews that the Porsches tried to steal from. Or are you conveniently forgetting that part or labeling it as “what-amounts-to-incest between the families evens out the pools of their wrong doing?” Lol
I think it’s okay to gauge thing A, that’s relevant now, on its impact now and thing b, that’s relevant to the past, on its impact from the past.
I think this video by Cammisa would be better suited to coming out at some point in the future.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
He wasn’t the only person to argue. In fact, Henry Ford was as well. He supported German in WW2 period.
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Due-Combination7924@reddit
What a terrible take. Your iphone is made by slave labor.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
I think you meant to reply to the OP.
Due-Combination7924@reddit
Correct.
tpeeeezy@reddit
"the engineers dont deserve praise because i dislike their boss"
GravyNeck@reddit
Do you seriously think its "dangerous" to say Tesla made a good product? I'm not a fan of Tesla or Musk but your comment is ridiculous
TrueSwagformyBois@reddit
I think the timing is what matters. In 10 years, hopefully, the world will be back to normal and praising the effort and the product and the impact can (hopefully) be divorced from the last year and a half, two years. Praising Tesla right now is almost as insensitive as praising Tesla a year ago would have been.
Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
Wait, how is praising Tesla "insensitive?"
red_simplex@reddit
Classic reddit moment.
techtimee@reddit
Holy mental illness and hate
Due-Combination7924@reddit
What a terrible take. Your iphone is made by slave labor.
AndroidUser37@reddit
The hell is this supposed to mean? You're basically saying "Careful about praising them, you don't want to give them too much credit" because you personally dislike their current CEO. Oh no! People are in danger of appreciating and purchasing a solid electric vehicle for their needs! The horror!
strongmanass@reddit
We praise the Model T despite Henry Ford's politics. Whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not, the Model S and Tesla have fundamentally changed the automotive landscape. Elon Musk can't be separated from that because his cult of personality contributed to the popularity of the car and the company.
FastBlueAnt@reddit
You can say that about any product. The iPhone wasn't revolutionary, its just that the engineers were effective.
blazbluecore@reddit
Agreed. It’s a dumb take.
It’s asilly to say “X product is amazing all thanks to Y employee”
Thats’s almost never the case when the creation of a product from a big company can involves 100+ different employees in the design and production.
It’s a team effort and team work that brings about amazing products. Even if a visionary is at the forefront, the vision needs to be good, team needs to be good, and the union of those two concepts needs to be good.
loseniram@reddit
The Iphone was revolutionary but not because it was amazing but because Apple completely changed the rules for what phone makers were allowed to get away with in terms of carrier restrictions. Before it, multiple huge phone makers tried to get approval for a powerful netbook type phones but got rejected, then Apple was able to get it with a take it or leave it deal
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Docist@reddit
Yea I’m not sure I get this take, do we say that about all the Tesla critique videos too that call out numerous things that Tesla got wrong? Because I can assure you real Tesla fanboys don’t care and won’t take away anything from that content either.
There are numerous things that Tesla does well that they should be praised for and that other companies should emulate like their engineering, efficiency pipeline and their approach to open sourcing their work. All of these advance the industry and tons of other companies need to emulate them. A video like this is going to speak to people like execs much better than a bunch of engineers giving data that they can’t really understand.
Iridium-Silver@reddit
This is generally where I’m at, even though Jason would probably say the “many people in the audience who can” is not his responsibility.
Rynyann@reddit
75 years is a LONG time. I’m not sure I would say this is the most important car of basically the entire post-war period.
hellish_ve@reddit
for american cars, it might as well be, It definitely holds a spot right next to the Model T, the Mustang, F150, Corvette, Dodge Caravan, Wagoneer, Willys Jeep, etc.
If you consider the future being electric, then it should hold the first spot in that 75 year old span.
Boundish91@reddit
I despise Musk, but the model S was a game changer and the engineers behind it deserve praise.
Sure it had some questionable design choices, but by and large it has shown itself to be a reliable car, which from a startup like Tesla was, is impressive.
I hope one day to pick up a tired one for cheap as a nice 2nd car, but for now the badge carries too much stigma for me.
hellish_ve@reddit
stigma from a badge didnt stop people from getting a volkswagen lol
shugokibrokenlmao@reddit
i second this. definitely an innovative product and was huge for the EV world. political stigma behind teslas is an issue.
Boundish91@reddit
That's quite the lineup you've got there, how is they flying spur?
shugokibrokenlmao@reddit
thank you.
it’s a wonderful vehicle. the tan interior is beautiful. 2 years of ownership and no mechanical issues or unexpected repairs whatsoever.
Uptons_BJs@reddit
Yeah, I think this is obvious. Before the model S, EVs were niche cars that didn't really function well as a normal car. The Model S was the first EV that a lot of people looked at, and thought was credible as an actual vehicle for daily driving.
mettaxa@reddit
Teslas also paved the way for the Ipadification of regular cars as well.
SharkBaitDLS@reddit
The vertical screen on the S is so much better than what most cars have now.
M4roon@reddit
That is true funny enough. I was looking at an m2 worn pretty hard, and the screen definitely did not age well (already). I still think the Tesla screens and some Toyota screens look pretty cool whenever I get in them.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
So many new cars be it legacy manufacturers or startups still cant make a free working digital keys, much less proper OTA updates
Immediate_Bee_6472@reddit
Why tho ?
Tesla was literally given money and all the operating space to make it happen they literally banned other companies and called it improving American automakers
These same Teslas are built like shit killed so many people in battery fires bc the exploded in an accident on top off that u can’t fix it .. They have to literally draft a build called right to repair bc of Tesla and automakers making it impossible to fix Evs
Tesla was literally a government plant to succeed after finding success earlier with other government contracts
I hate the tittle of this article
BriarsandBrambles@reddit
“ These same Teslas are built like shit killed so many people in battery fires bc the exploded in an accident”
How many?
Immediate_Bee_6472@reddit
Tesla reported 282 and 83 deaths and I’m sure that number is conservative
jaaagman@reddit
It was the first practical EV that I could recall that was actually cool and desirable to everyone. It was aspirational, yet still attainable. Even though this is not a car that I ever really loved or would buy, its hard to deny the cultural impact it's had on the entire car industry (or Tesla as a whole, for better or for worse).
04limited@reddit
Now that you mention it all the EVs back in early 2010s were unconventional futuristic designs like the Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, Mitsubishi i-miev, Fisker Karma none had no more than 200 miles of EV range. Then there was the RAV4 EV, Smart Electric, both using Tesla tech but severely handicapped vehicles. Model S definitely set the bar.
I don’t think there was ever a major push for “normal” looking EVs until the model 3 came out in 2018. I guess the VW eGolf and Focus Electric were more conventional but they were like 120 mile range cars. The Bolt EV was one of the first non Tesla 200+ mile BEV but they were still egg shaped.
Seref15@reddit
This same design pattern followed hybrids. The earliest hybrids all tried to look different while most of the public just wanted the same old accord but as a hybrid.
Captain_Alaska@reddit
The 2nd gen Prius sold so much better than the normal looking sedan first gen that most people aren’t aware it existed.
KentuckyFriedChingon@reddit
Slightly off topic, but I find "Prius" and "curbstomp" to be humorous in the same sentence together
agray20938@reddit
Yeah, but the original Fisker Karma had an insanely cool design (so long as you ignore everything else about the car). Honestly the exterior styling of them has aged pretty well.
Rough_Ad_5061@reddit
Ugh, I totally get what you're saying! The Model S really did change the game, but it feels like people forget how much it actually pushed the whole car industry forward. Now every brand is scrambling to catch up, but it’s frustrating when they act like they’re the pioneers.
Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit
Don't forget about Aptera, which should go on sale a few days before Half Life 3 is released.
p3dal@reddit
What was unconventional or futuristic about the Nissan Leaf? It always looked to me like any other econobox of the era. As I recall, most people didn't even realize it was electric, probably due to how much it resembled it's peers that were also built on the Renault-Nissan B platform.
jaaagman@reddit
It's hard to describe, but I did feel that they leaned into making it look very much like a blend of a traditional economy car and an eco car. Not necessarily offensive to most people, but not exactly inspiring or exciting. The Tesla model S on the other hand looked like a sharp and stylish luxury sedan with its long hood and RWD proportions. There was not much to suggest that it was an "eco" car.
Shaex@reddit
The bolt was eggy, but not so much more than ICE hatches like the Fit, Fiesta, etc. It didn't look like it came out of an old Sony catalogue like the i-Miev and Leaf did or have the gamer chair aesthetics of the i3.
747WakeTurbulance@reddit
I don’t know anyone who thinks that car is cool or desirable.
tpeeeezy@reddit
747WakeTurbulance@reddit
And?
tpeeeezy@reddit
boomer take boomer car
747WakeTurbulance@reddit
LOL, I'm not a "Boomer", I'm just not poor.
tpeeeezy@reddit
thats a hat trick of cheaper versions of cars people actually want
747WakeTurbulance@reddit
As opposed to the S, which nobody wants.
agray20938@reddit
The video (and comments) are talking about when the Model S was originally released, not someone buying a model S in 2025. If you didn't know anyone in 2012 that thought a Model S was cool or desirable, then it seems like you just didn't know many people.
Torczyner@reddit
I own a couple. Nice to meet you.
cybertruckboat@reddit
And not even because it was an EV. OTA updates. Big screen. Autopilot. Software controls. Motorized door handles. The entire computer architecture. Minimalist interior. Cavernous interior. Frunk.
It was a radically different car from anything on the road!
f8Negative@reddit
All GM had to do was actually put their EV tech in a vehicle that didn't look ugly af. They had no intention of ever doing so.
JustThall@reddit
Ultium platform EVs have great proportions to my eye - wide and low. What “ugliness” do you mean?
bc10551@reddit
I think they mean before. Not like the Chevy Bolt or Volt was ever a great looking car. Then again I wouldn't say the Model 3 or Y (and definitely not the X) are good looking lol
JustThall@reddit
Oh, I see.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
You mean like the EV1, a 2 seater that cost 100k and had 100 miles of range?
UnUsernameRandom@reddit
I'd say that as important as the Model S was the supercharging network. Without Tesla implementing the first car fast charging network, it wouldn't have taken off.
This is why in Europe and other areas, EVs were unpopular until the charging network really picked up.
ToInfinity_MinusOne@reddit
First EV that actually leaned into the cool, futuristic, and sporty aesthetic of electric vehicles as well. Before electrification was dominated by god awful nerd zero-fun aesthetics like the Prius, Nissan leaf, and G Wiz.
No one thought to make a normal car with electric powertrain until Tesla.
lordtema@reddit
That's not true though. The Nissan Leaf came out in 2010 and sold like hotcakes.
PinkishOcean430@reddit
There were hybrids prior to the Prius too.
The first gen leaf wouldn't be a hill I'd day on for showing EVs as being a viable alternative to normal ICE...
Captain_Alaska@reddit
Not really, the Prius was the first mass produced hybrid. Anything that came earlier was either a prototype, sold in incredibly limited numbers, or was just a vehicle with an electric transmission.
UniqueThanks@reddit
The first gen Leaf was a glorified golf cart
04limited@reddit
It was like a Mitsubishi i-MIEV built by a company with more working capital
kinkycarbon@reddit
The OEMs were making compliance vehicles in a car design language for city mobility. Yes, the Prius sold well too. However, Tesla coming out with an EV sedan that looks good and is high performance was not the thing OEMs were willing to do. It also showed a sector of consumers willing to drop cash for a mass production vehicle costing close to $100k. The same group of people who can buy a Corvette, Porsche, Mercedes, or other luxury vehicle.
Now the current gen Toyota Prius looks better that it makes sense to give it the wide body look. It looks closer to a Lamborghini in design.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
It came out in December 2010, but definitely didn't sell like hotcakes. At ~$35k in 2011 dollars for 80 miles of range and ultra slow charging, it was pretty niche.
lordtema@reddit
In the US sure, but in Europe it sold really really well.
emceter@reddit
Dude… it just didn’t. All of Europe sold ~1700 Leafs in 2011 and ~5200 in 2012. That’s pitiful. The absolute peak is 2018 with ~38,000 units…..
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Global Leaf sales peaked at 78 000 in 2018, which isn't dissimilar to the S's best year and just 6% of what the Y does annually.
The entire run since 2011 is about even with 8 months worth of Ys.
lordtema@reddit
Sure, it fell off once the market started moving but it was legitimately one of the first EVs i can remember seeing in big numbers here in Norway, and it was still the go to cheap EV for many many years.
xkemex@reddit
Yeah, but Nissan Leaf is not cool. And the cool factor is very important! Model S is the first electric car that makes people want to own and drive EV. After that the trend caught on fire.
Roboticpoultry@reddit
My dad had a friend who was an early Model S adopter and I still remember how cool I thought it was when I first saw in in 2012-2013. That guy has a Lucid Sapphire these days
brickfrenzy@reddit
I bought a Model S in 2015. I wasn't necessarily a super-early adopter but here in Ohio they were few and far between. I had a number of parking lot conversations about the car. It was the coolest thing on the road, and I lament what Elon Musk has done to the brand's cachet.
w0nderbrad@reddit
Tesla basically did it themselves... dragged the entire planet into the EV era kicking and screaming. Built their own fucking charging networks all over the god damned place. All in what... 15 years or something?
must_be_the_mangoes@reddit
Not to mention that Tesla, in general, proved that an independent automaker can break into and survive in the market. There would likely be no Rivian, Ineos, Lucid, etc… without Tesla paving the way.
TheMatt561@reddit
An EV can be cool and fast
blazbluecore@reddit
Ifs dumb to hate Tesla. Tesla skyrocketed us at least a decade in car production.
The current car manufacturers were content feeding you the same garbage with minimum improvement year over year.
Now we have electric, self-driving cars.
So what you will about Elon but he at least DID something instead of running his mouth.
GoldenState15@reddit
They've never made a self driving car btw
kubyx@reddit
What would you call the cars driving around Texas without a driver in the seat?
Taco_Enjoyer3000@reddit
Testing research and development on a public population that never consented to it. Austin.
kubyx@reddit
You and everyone else who keeps replying to me keep arguing random topics. Ethical/unethical, tailing car, remote monitoring, wAYmO is all irrelevant to my comment - Tesla makes a car that drives itself. End of discussion. Whatever else you want to argue about it, go ahead, but it doesn't change the fact that they have on the road, today, a car that drives from A -> B with zero human input.
Taco_Enjoyer3000@reddit
>Tesla makes a car that drives itself.
Oh really? That's all that matters?
Not that there are competitors that can do better because they don't insist on cheap technology? Not the messy decade of 'FSD next year'? Not the non-consent of the general population to be used in a fucking tech bro experiment because they can't figure out some other way to do their RND that would be as cheap as 'oh well just let it roll around town?'
Wonder how much Tesla stock you own. Musk wont let you taste, brother.
magshell-alpha@reddit
why are you so negative and aggressive on Reddit? And not just this post, your overall behavior is very anti-social
kubyx@reddit
Nothing you just said there contradicts what I said, but goes to show how pathetic the educational system is today.
bc10551@reddit
Isn't there like 1 or 2 of them on a predetermined bus route
kubyx@reddit
No and no.
https://tech-insider.org/tesla-robotaxi-dallas-houston-unsupervised-launch-2026/
There are >500 autonomous Teslas in the fleet right now that can be ordered to pick a person up and drive them somewhere. But regardless of whether or not the number is 1 or 10 million, to say "They've never made a self driving car" is totally false, yet exactly what I would expect to get upvoted on this sub. Objectivity and Tesla are thrown out the window around here.
bc10551@reddit
Everything other than that article says 13 unsupervised in Austin. Supervised does not count and having a follow car/a monitor in the passenger seat does not count. 13 cars is not enough to confidently say they have actually built a self driving car lmao
kubyx@reddit
You're changing the goalposts. The original comment I replied to said Tesla doesn't make self-driving cars. It doesn't matter if someone's ass is in the driver's seat, if they're watching it remotely, following behind it, whatever - if they aren't directly controlling the car, it's self-driving.
GoldenState15@reddit
They are classified as level 2 autonomy. They are not self driving
kubyx@reddit
You're right. It only accelerates autonomously, brakes autonomously, steers autonomously, and makes every decision autonomously. Not sure what I was thinking calling that 'self driving'.
GoldenState15@reddit
It's under supervision and a human is liable for what happens to it (the person supervising it). It is not self driving by legal classification or by definition lol
mulletstation@reddit
There's like 50-75 Model Y's running around right now in Austin that you can order
ButtholeSurfur@reddit
Waymo
kubyx@reddit
General Mills.
Are we just saying the name of other companies?
HighHokie@reddit
https://youtu.be/GU16hXSSGKs
03Void@reddit
They're coming by the end of the year /s
Occhrome@reddit
lol no
the Japanese deserve the most credit for improving efficiency and reliability which pushed all other car makers.
tesla deserves credit for making a really popular EV that helped push EVs to the regular person. but if they didnt do it someone else would have done it, the tech was finally there.
opeth10657@reddit
Prius was probably a bigger step than the S.
baddeafboy@reddit
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
UniqueThanks@reddit
Despite all the drama around Tesla, the Model S redefined the entire market. Without it, there would be no Model 3, Y, Taycan, etc
Mother____Clucker@reddit
It would be interesting to see the automotive landscape had Tesla not come to market. Lucid and Rivian would have not existed, the traditional automakers by and large, had zero interest in the electric car. Would someone else had come along and made the electric car appealing to the masses?
jaaagman@reddit
I don’t think that Tesla would have been nearly as successful as it became without Musk’s public persona (circa the mid 2010s) showmanship. The products were made by outstanding engineers and designers, but they also needed marketing.
Noon_Specialist@reddit
That is to say without fraud, Tesla wouldn't have succeeded.
Torczyner@reddit
Fraud is pretty strong. Without him reaching for the stars, we wouldn't have Waymo or Cybercab I bet. Even the current hw4 FSD is crazy good, does 50% of all my driving.
Noon_Specialist@reddit
You're living in a fantasy world. He was literally charged with securities fraud for his market manipulation, and that was only after he'd been doing it for years. He's been saying FSD would be fully rolled out/ready in the following year since 2012. FSD has only got worse in that time due to the removal of lidar. Not to mention that there are 6 hardware revisions, which the customer has to pay for to upgrade. Didn't he say from the beginning that every Tesla ever produced could achieve level 5 automation?
Waymo has existed in some capacity since 2004, and can actually be called a success unlike FSD or the "Cybercab". FSD has an extremely high failure rate, to the point that the only country in Europe to approve it is the Netherlands. This approval is only as a glorified active cruise control because it's practically only level 2 automation. As for the "Cybercab", it's not allowed to be used unsupervised even in the US because it has an accident rate 4 times higher than a real driver. That is one crash per 57,000 miles versus the human benchmark of one crash per 229,000 miles. Despite these terrible limitations, they've started mass production to keep shareholders happy.
Torczyner@reddit
Ugh he was cleared of fraud charges in court. Don't how you don't mention the actual results of that charge though. Very biased.
He definitely over promised in 2012 but clearly you're not familiar with the product or history. I had a P90DL in 2014 with the Mobile Eye tech and it was crazy good. I think if they didn't have their falling out things would have progressed much faster. The Mobile Eye Autopilot was a great start.
Saying FSD is worse since then is bananas fantasy land. It's better than every car manufacturer out by years. The level 2 stuff is only based on liability, not capability. Definitions here matter.
Waymo still can't be called a success. Just like Cybercab, it's only operating unsupervised in limited areas. I'm in AZ and a Waymo can't take you from a mall in Tempe to a mall in Gilbert 12 miles away, but my Teslas can, with zero intervention.
For crash rating, FSD is many times lower than human drivers. You're using bad stats because you were fed them by garbage media instead of understanding them. Calculating the accident rate in a specific area and comparing to drivers across the country is easy stat manipulation and you bought it. Look at FSD witch mirrors normal driving, not city driving in dense areas. And Teslas ARE operating unsupervised so you're just wrong here.
It would be fantastic if you set aside your clear biased BS and actually experienced the tech before just rambling of headline after headline.
Noon_Specialist@reddit
You're an out-and-out liar.
He wasn't cleared of anything. He settled with the SEC knowing he was going to lose. He and Tesla had to pay $20 million each, and he had to step down from being chairman for 3 years. That doesn't sound like an innocent man to me.
I agree that liability is a concern for manufacturers, but the fact remains that there are Level 3 certified cars sold to consumers:
Mercedes S Class and EQS (US)
Honda Legend (Japan)
BMW 7 Series (Europe)
That's 3 brands that have made the jump, and they are amongst others who are actively developing Level 4 to be launched within the next few years. Tesla meanwhile, has been saying Level 4/5 is just around the corner since 2012, but has no certification above Level 2. Even their taxis haven't got certification above Level 2.
Yet it's achieved great results which they've openly published. Meanwhile, Tesla refuses to release any hard data. Why won't Tesla publish data like Waymo?
But as I've pointed out, Tesla doesn't release any hard data. If we go by what insurers and studies say; Teslas have a higher accident rate in general, never mind with FSD. That's the question, though. Is the higher accident rate caused by FSD? Studies have shown FSD has a much higher failure rate than Waymo, too.
So, to conclude. Elon Musk's and Tesla's settlements are an admission of guilt to their fraud charges. Tesla doesn't have any certification higher than Level 2, unlike several competitors. Tesla doesn't release hard data, unlike some of its competition. This means we have to go by third-party studies, which show high failure rates and high accident rates.
Oh, and I forgot to mention lidar. Lidar is so important because it allows autonomous driving in all weather conditions. That is the barrier for Level 5. We have seen Teslas failing to work in light rain, nevermind fog or a storm. Every claim Musk/Tesla makes about Level 5 is fraud, it will never be achievable without lidar or a similar technology.
Torczyner@reddit
Tell me you haven't experienced FSD without telling me lol. It's funny watching the ignorant attack Tesla without understanding.
The SEC and fraud claims are actually two different claims. I noticed you're now down to SEC claims because, as I said, there was no fraud case. Everyone smart settles with the SEC. Your other choice is getting drug through legal forever. I think that fine was equivalent to under $1 for him.
Again. You've never experienced FSD. Just watch the end of the Hagerty video of the S driving through the canyon. It's so good.
Noon_Specialist@reddit
I know several people who own Teslas and they all refuse to use FSD. Why? Because as they showed me, it slows down to a crawl coming up to junctions, then accelerates hard through the junctions. It stops working every time it encounters faded road markings, which is all the time. It randomly slams on the brakes, slams on the brakes because of a piece of paper, and slams on the brakes for imaginary traffic lights. We've all seen the videos online of Teslas ignoring child-sized dolls, ploughing straight through them.
From everything I've experienced and seen, FSD is horribly unsafe. That's why Tesla hasn't got it certified for Level 3, it's not possible. Get your head out of your arse, and look outside of your echo chamber.
Torczyner@reddit
You're not even in the US where the latest FSD is. You're talking about something you're completely unaware of. It's like you tried a flip phone and are telling me cellphones are bad. What you're describing is Autopilot behavior.
I could tell you were ignorant from the start. You just confirmed your lack of actual knowledge for everyone.
If you were in the US, I would get you any money you can't find a system that remotely compares. I bet someone the other day to test Waymo against FSD and they wouldn't because Waymo couldn't even drive 10 miles away lol. You're welcome to come here and collect money if you think you are right.
Noon_Specialist@reddit
It was full FSD less than a year ago. Stop chatting shit.
Torczyner@reddit
Lol a year ago?!?!
Hahahahaha bruh
Did you even watch the video? Tesla does OTA updates better than anyone. There's been some changes.
This is pathetic now.
ItsForFun76@reddit
You'd be surprised how many companies have faked it until they made it....
Noon_Specialist@reddit
I wouldn't, nor am I surprised that they get away with it when there are so many corrupt politicians.
zipzoomramblafloon@reddit
And when one can leverage all the money they made through fraud to propel politicians to the stop to halt investigations into your business practices, nobody loses.
jaaagman@reddit
I think there is some truth to that, though I felt that that was more of an issue with later announcements such as the Semi, Gen 2 Roadster, Solar Coty, Optimus, etc.
04limited@reddit
We’d probably have like 3 attempts of a Henrik Fisker EV by now
Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit
Haven't he done 3 already? He was the original designer of the Model 3 prototype, then he did the ugly one with the hybrid engine, then the one where all the cars burned up when a hurricane flooded them with salt water.
sibswagl@reddit
I suspect it would happen eventually, the shift towards electrification and renewables has a lot driving it. Though I suspect America’s network would be even worse without the Tesla Supercharger push.
IMO if it wasn’t just Tesla with a different coat of paint (start up manages a hit) it would be China. So the success China is seeing now with EVs, but in a world where nobody else has really managed to pull it off.
nucleartime@reddit
China has been wanting to develop a real domestic automotive industry for decades, but always lacked the institutional knowledge with regards to making quality reliable ICEs. EVs represented a fresh start and the ability to use their existing industrial knowledge in consumer electronics.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Climate change is still a real and pressing issue, which gives immense impetus to any form of personal transport which doesn't use it. EVs probably develop a bit slower but by the early 2010s other people are aware of the market, it's just less advanced. China is doing it, Ghosn's companies are doing it, GM is doing it. They're probably a bit worse without Tesla and take longer to become viable for the mass market, but so long as climate change exists or oil is a finite resource, viable electric cars are inevitable imo.
ProfDrGenius_PhD@reddit
Rivian was pretty close. They were founded in 2009 and started with a sports car concept before canning that so they could come to market with a vehicle that could truly shake up the EV industry. Queue the R1T
Bebealex@reddit
I keep saying consumers don't vote with their wallets. Informed consumers do. Most people buy what they get told to buy. So few people care about more than themselves because we get told that we won't make a difference. (Not putting a cent in Tesla's CEO)
RogerThatRacing@reddit
I disagree this would have happened eventually. Model S was just the first.
FastBlueAnt@reddit
The model T would have happened eventually too. Doesn't mean they didn't redefine the market
AndreLeGeant88@reddit
Very different. What made Model T important was the assembly process it established. The EV shift was inevitable. Tesla benefited from not needing to support a legacy car business though
ryzenguy111@reddit
the best EV for sale before the Model S was a frog-like hatchback with 75 miles of range that cost 50% more than its ICE competition. Before that, it was a 2 seater $70k plastic blob with 60 miles of range that the manufacturer tried to erase all existence of. Do you really think other companies would actually put effort into EV development without the Model S? Nissan couldn't even figure out battery cooling
What_the_8@reddit
Just stop, your Elon hate is clouding you. Electric cars aren’t new either, but Tesla changed the game, that’s undeniable.
FastBlueAnt@reddit
Someone also would have realized an assembly line is more efficient inevitably. Companies were dragging their heels on good EVs. Tesla established the first long range electric vehicle with a giant screen that is ubiquitous these days
tsar73@reddit
Considering how much legacy automakers are floundering even with the crystal clear blueprint set by Tesla over a decade ago this is not very convincing.
sheuer@reddit
The most important thing related to a car in my lifetime was selling mine and buying a cargo bike to replace it.
DiddyEpsteinSixSeven@reddit
I love the styling. Might buy one some day and swap in an LS
NeatlyCritical@reddit
Built by a fascist good riddance and hopefully to the company.
RichardNixon345@reddit
Don’t look at what Mazda was doing in the 1930s and 40s.
NeatlyCritical@reddit
No one who owned Mazda, or Mercedes or BMW is alive today. Tesla is majority owned by a fascist psychopath now
Caysman2005@reddit
BMW is quite literally still majority-owned by the same family who saved it from bankruptcy back in the 1950s. As for their history, why don't you check out Herbert Quant's Wikipedia page?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW#:~:text=BMW%20AG%20is%20headquartered%20in,shares%20owned%20by%20the%20public
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Quandt
NeatlyCritical@reddit
There are alot of companies with awful pro fascist past or presents (Amazon, Chevron, any company that donated to the fascist). But unless the owners of the companies are actively owned by fascists the company itself can redeem itself and the Quandt children are definitely not fascist they donate to very social democratic parties in germany.
Caysman2005@reddit
Lmao so why'd you delete the original comment?
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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jaaagman@reddit
One thing that I do wonder about with this constant iteration is if parts and serviceability ever becomes a big issue further down the line. I've never owned a Tesla, but it seems like there are a lot of parts and design changes that occur even within a single model year. This is the same concern that I have with Chinese car makers and their constant iteration.
Yes it may be true that traditional car makers have slower iteration cycles, but this does help with parts availability and post-warranty maintenance.
04limited@reddit
At its current state I don’t see any issues. In 10 years who knows. Atleast the Model 3 and Y have had long enough of a run on their platforms and enough used examples i don’t think it’ll be a massive threat at these vehicles age. At some point you’ll probably have to retrofit parts if it gets to that point. But the option is there. Or third parties step in if the battery pack & drive motor failures don’t mechanically total the cars out.
That being said, it’s not like the legacy brands haven’t been known to discontinue vehicle parts. Just off the top of my head I know early build C5 Corvette ABS modules have been discontinued since probably early 10s and people have ran into issues with sourcing parts. Same with the mid 10s Ram trucks and their ABS module. These are just two vehicles that I personally know of. Some older Toyota models 80s-90s non wear item parts are starting to get hard to come by. Door panels, trim pieces etc
747WakeTurbulance@reddit
The bigger issue is depreciation and battery costs. Nobody is going to be buying a new battery for a ten year old car that’s worth less than the price of the battery. These are ultimately going to be disposable cars. All the good people think they are doing reducing emissions is going to be offset by the number of cars going to an early grave.
Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit
LFP prices are crashing. Wholesale, they're going for less than $100/kWh, so creating a replacement for the original 85 kWh pack probably costs less than 10 grand these days. Even less in a year or two.
Nice try, though.
747WakeTurbulance@reddit
Nice try?
The depreciation and battery cost issue isn’t theoretical, it’s already baked into the market. Older Model S cars routinely drop below $15k, and when a battery replacement comes in anywhere near that number, no owner is writing a check to fix it. They sell it, dump it, or move on. The market knows this, which is why those cars are discounted in the first place. Pretending that everyone is going to happily replace a battery in a ten year old car just doesn’t line up with how people actually behave.
And this is where the environmental argument starts to fall apart. If a vehicle gets pushed out of service earlier because a major component is too expensive to replace, that’s not environmentally friendly, it’s wasteful. These cars take a huge amount of energy and raw materials to produce, especially the battery. If they’re effectively being sidelined at ten to twelve years instead of staying on the road for fifteen or twenty, all of that embedded energy gets spread over a shorter lifespan. That undercuts a big part of the emissions argument people like to make.
Compare that to gas cars, and the difference is pretty obvious. An older ICE vehicle with a bad engine or transmission can often be fixed for a fraction of the cost of a battery pack, so people keep them running. You still see twenty year old gas cars on the road every day because the economics make sense to repair them. That longer lifespan matters. You’re getting more total use out of the same materials and manufacturing footprint, which is a real environmental factor that doesn’t get talked about enough.
Then there’s the stuff nobody wants to bring up, like tire wear. EVs are heavier and deliver instant torque, which chews through tires faster. That means more frequent replacements, more raw materials consumed, and more waste generated over the life of the vehicle. It’s not a small thing when you scale it across millions of cars.
Battery prices might come down, and that could help eventually, but right now the idea that these are some kind of clean, long term solution without tradeoffs is just not accurate. The reality is more complicated, and in some cases, you’re trading one set of environmental problems for another while also creating a financial scenario where cars are FAR more likely to be scrapped earlier than traditional vehicles.
Recent_Duck_7640@reddit
not been an issue in my 4 years of ownership experience.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
Respectfully, 4 years for a car (if new) is still a new car in terms of keeping it on the road.
I have a truck thats 30+ years old and I can still get everything I need for it. The question being asked is if the Tesla will stand up to that test of time, especially with the move-fast-break-things approach Musk took
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
The oldest S on the road is just about 14, so we've got those answers already. Hell, even the oldest 3 is about to turn 9.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
Just to reiterate, the concern is with the mid-year changes that were enacted on the model during its run. Not whether the cars last in general.
As an engineer, and as an engineer who has had to track revision updates for production runs it can be a difficult thing to do when that process is running properly.
As a home mechanic who has had to determine mid-year changes on properly documented domestic manufacturers, the process to determine the proper part can be frustrating
The fixes shown in Teslas over the years leads me to believe that they were not running that process properly, if at all.
Combine that with Tesla's deathgrip on parts availability...
:shrug: we'll see.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
The kinds of mid year changes someone would eventually have to deal with repairing/replacing are pretty much all plug and play, so you'd just buy the latest revision and put it in.
If someone were ambitious enough and had a lot of time on their hands, they could more or less convert a 2012 into a 2025.
"Combine that with Tesla's deathgrip on parts availability..."
It's easier to order directly from the app, but my local NAPA and Canadian Tire stock pretty much anything needed.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
My man, you're missing the central tenet of the argument.
They're plug and play, sure. How do you know which one you need? And once you've plugged you have to update your software before you can play. Can you find a reputable download of Windows XP? If so, how long will you be able to do so? The majority of updates for EVs are OTA. When Tesla stops supporting that, who is to say they'll keep supporting the software? They're already incredibly stingy with their software, they're bricking cars because the person buying used cars didn't pay for extended battery life and its solely a software change.
Musk had a well documented habit of just going out to the factory floor and changing shit. Who recorded that, and who recorded the VIN of that vehicle? What of those changes required a software change? What of those changes made actual hardware changes later on?
You may be able to order from the app, or NAPA, or Canadian Tire, sure. What are they NOT carrying? How long will they be carrying what they are carrying?
Again, there are cars out there that are so unpopular that despite being less than a decade old there is no support. At some point all cars age out and stop getting maintenance options.
When is that going to happen for Tesla? How are customers going to determine what, of the little supply chain there is, is correct for their car? Those the central questions being asked here.
elon_free_hk@reddit
You really think that Elon can just go onto the factory floor and swap in a part with zero tracing?
What is likely to happen is that Elon forces a group of engineers to implement a change, and the engineers will just have to make it happen through the existing workflow, working triple overtime to deliver by the end of the week.
To be fair, I don't treat my cars and their parts like computer chips. I don't go to Toyota's part website and look for when the EOL is for this part and whether there's an advisory for moving onto a new part # in X years. It would be cool, but I doubt anyone cares about it like buying chips on Digikey.
The statistics also show that the length of most car ownership tends to be much shorter than OEM's part production.
It's funny that from all the OEMs you picked on Tesla. Tesla is known for open-sourcing their repair manuals down to the torque spec and socket size.
https://service.tesla.com/docs/Model3/ServiceManual/en-us/GUID-447B6C4E-EB4D-4F6E-BF8B-CAA0CBCA3474.html
You can still buy parts for your 2012 Model S directly from them
https://epc.tesla.com/en-US/catalogs/edc231ec-a255-43e7-b494-2844953955b2
I don't even own a Tesla or work for them, but I used to work in the exact same industry in the valley. You are just hating for the sake of it. LOL
snoo-boop@reddit
The central questions being asked here appear to be "Do you agree with the FUD I'm saying, as a person who has never owned a Tesla and repeats every rumor I've ever heard?????"
No, I don't agree with you. Yes, I own a 2012 S.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
That's certainly your view of the discussion.
Unfortunately it doesn't really lead anywhere for the discussion to go from that point.
snoo-boop@reddit
It's as if you didn't read (or respect) what I said. Discuss all you like: me telling you that I think you're talking FUD is part of the discussion.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
No, I read it. I respect it enough to consider it.
But I've stated no rumors. I'd argue it isnt FUD as its a common concern when people buy used cars as all Model S will be in the future. You have to balance parts availability with how reliable the car is and how well the previous owner maintained it.
But thats about it. I can say "I'm not spreading FUD" and you reply "yes you are" and then its just a loop of two kids on a playground going "nuh uh!" "yes huh!" until one of us gets bored enough to quit.
I'd rather have a discussion about the actual concerns facing people buying these in the future. If you dont, fine. But its still a concern.
snoo-boop@reddit
If you want a discussion, you might try harder to say something interesting.
And the proof of that is? ...
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
The fact that Ive spread no rumors? You're the accuser here. If you see a rumor please let me know what it is.
snoo-boop@reddit
Read up the conversation, my man. I was clear enough.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
No, you werent. You literally just stated that I was spreading rumors, not what they were. I don't follow Tesla enough to know what the rumors are, so until you provide an example I have no clue what you are talking about.
snoo-boop@reddit
Pretty much everything you said was a rumor, and you declined to provide any proof. Appreciate that you say you have no clue.
fiddlythingsATX@reddit
Does Tesla still remotely disable features to punish home wrenchers?
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
They never did. You've got to be careful about what you read and how it's presented.
It would be pretty dumb for a start up with limited service resources to intentionally stop people from DYI.
fiddlythingsATX@reddit
So that guy who was rebuilding a model S lied about it?
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
I don't know if you're doing it on purpose, but ommiting the fact that they picked up a salvage titled car is kind of important. Even then, it's only kicked out of the Supercharger network.
If you own a car that wasn't totalled that's not going to be an issue.
They even provide the full service manuals for free, unlike pretty much any other OEM.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
Retitling a salvage car is very common, not sure at all why that would be an issue at any level.
fiddlythingsATX@reddit
I still think it’s shady whether or not it’s got a salvage title, but it’s absolutely heinous to have such in the TOS (for a car. TOS for a damn CAR)
fiddlythingsATX@reddit
And didn’t the terms of service explicitly allow such?
snoo-boop@reddit
The move fast break things thing is Zuck, and he was talking about software.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
Zuck said it, Musk adopted it in many aspects
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/12/24/elon-musk-washington-congress-00196006
snoo-boop@reddit
Where in this article does it say that Elmo said it? It correctly attributes it to Zuck, as I said.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
Guy, I never said he said it. It is a design philosophy, it is a business philosophy. Musk follows that philosophy. That's what I said originally, and its what the article states.
You were just complaining that I didn't respect your words enough to actually read them or absorb their meaning. You should give it a shot here.
snoo-boop@reddit
You're making things up, just like the article.
You should give a shot at not mis-attributing statements.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
My guy, you're making things up here.
I never said that he said that. I said that was his approach in business.
If I say that John follows the tenets of Christianity and loves his neighbor I'm not saying that John said "Love thy neighbor" I'm saying he has the same philosophy as the person who said that.
snoo-boop@reddit
For religion, I'll stick with my minister's opinion, not your misquote.
For Tesla, no one cares what you think their approach in business is.
JackTheBehemothKillr@reddit
My friend, you are actively misinterpreting what I'm saying now. You were doing it before but that could have been a comprehension issue or something else.
Now it appears to be willful. I will no longer interact with you.
Have a nice day.
BrownGhost10@reddit
It just discontinued, this is a future worry.
Due-Combination7924@reddit
Long term Parts supply and inventory is literally baked into the process of a car's design process. A manufacturer always has a plan for parts support even after it is out of production.
fiddlythingsATX@reddit
Wouldn’t it be nice if that were true?
whale-tail@reddit
Most of the broadly serviceable parts (like chassis parts) don't change significantly enough to not be interchangeable. Happens with plenty of other cars.
Just one example, the 944 has substantially different front control arms before and after 1985.5, but they are essentially interchangeable
Viperlite@reddit
I’d be more worried about parts and software support after the Model S cancellation, effective April 2026.
jaaagman@reddit
For something that was a lower volume seller like the Model S, that could very well be a concern, for something as popular as the Model 3 and Y, I would be more confident that the aftermarket will step up to fill the gap.
clauderbaugh@reddit
I was all amped up to rage all over this video as a sponsored shill piece, but he did a great job making his case. And he's right. No other car in the main user market has pushed the boundaries like this - for better or worse. What is common in today's cars is because Tesla pushed hard on innovation and ignored the things that a company like Mercedes or Toyota have perfected. And he illustrates that well. I usually only watch Jason's drag races, because let's face it, the special effects on those are S-tier, but this was a nice watch.
jrileyy229@reddit
The Prius has got to be in the conversation for cars that impacted the world...
elementfx2000@reddit
Definitely, the Prius showed that a hybrid powertrain could work well and be reliable, but it still didn't push the boundaries like the Model S did. The Prius was really just a traditional automobile but with better fuel efficiency.
The Model S made EVs cool and attainable while also showing that modern technology could be useful and enjoyable in a car. Also huge shout-out to the charging network that Tesla built. They probably would've failed without it no matter how good the car was.
jrileyy229@reddit
Yes, sadly the Prius should have had a bigger impact. Right when hybrid was going legit mainstream, n Tesla moved the goalpost.
I mean that in the sense that every freaking consumer car on the planet right now should be hybrid... It should just be baked into the price and scaled so much that it adds $1000 cost to every f150, which will easily be recovered in fuel savings... And not a $5k upcharge, which is much harder to justify.
elementfx2000@reddit
Yeah, maybe. I agree many cars should be hybrids, especially larger vehicles, but I'd argue EVs are capable enough that we can basically skip that step. Most people could go straight to electric unless they need a gas vehicle for a specific purpose.
jrileyy229@reddit
A very large number of people rent... Apartment, house, duplex whatever... You don't get to just have free EV charging... And you can't just have it installed somewhere you don't own.
Even a large number of homeowners have street parking only in cities... You can't run an extension cord across public sidewalk and into your EV on the street.
And then even people who do own a home with a driveway, if you regularly use your truck for truck things, a Ford lightning doesn't work . You want to haul your boat an hour to the lake on the weekend... Your lightning battery is toast in an hour... And there's nowhere to charge... You need a gas or diesel truck still.
And if you have to use public fast charge, it's too expensive to make sense.
There are lots of us cases EV works, lots it does not.
Whatever it is, I wish Ford and GM and whoever had put those billions of dollars into hybrid a decade ago. I'd gladly pay an extra grand for my f150 to be hybrid, and everyone wins.. at 5k it just doesn't make sense
Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit
Yea, but that's just a societal/government problem. There's no technical reason you can't install charge points everywhere, and they aren't even really that expensive.
Ok? Did you not know that you can option a PowerBoost hybrid drivetrain on almost every trim level of the F-150?
jaaagman@reddit
The power grid and infrastructure is probably one of the larger limiting factors. The massive buildout of AI data centres hasn’t helped either.
elementfx2000@reddit
Like I said, larger vehicles (trucks, vans, etc.) can greatly benefit from a hybrid powertrain.
Approximately 35% of the US population rents, that includes house rentals, not just apartment buildings. This does mean many won't be able to charge at home, but that's not necessarily a deal breaker. The first 4 years I owned my Model 3 I was in an apartment and had to use a L2 charging station in a nearby parking garage. It wasn't always convenient, but it was still well worth it. I only topped my car up about 2 times a week with it.
So I still stand by my statement that we can skip hybrids for the most part. EVs won't work for everyone, but that's okay, they will work for most people and as adoption rises, so will the availability of charging infrastructure.
snoo-boop@reddit
Are you trying to fill in the entire Bingo card in a single comment?
jaaagman@reddit
If the Prius eventually got the world to accept hybrid cars, Tesla got the world to see that EV's could be cool, desirable, and not niche (back in the day of course). Having the ability to design a vehicle from the ground up with none of the constraints of traditional automakers also had its advantages with packaging and efficiency.
Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit
This is the key. Even if I thought Priuses were cool, the vast majority of people thought they were dorky cars for ecoweenies. People made jokes about "I didn't know they could go that fast" when Al Gore's son was in a police chase in a Prius LA.
sc0lm00@reddit
While it had an impact I don't think it really reshaped anything. Its uniqueness was efficiency and reliability but it was still just a compact car and niche for many. An all electric accessible full size sedan that had range, speed, and comfort with zero gas was more redefining of automotive possibility and evolution.
BertTF2@reddit
You've been missing out, Revelations is one of the best series on car YouTube. Highly recommend giving the other videos a watch
HumbleGoatCS@reddit
So many people itching to find fault in video because they do not personally like Elon Musk or Tesla... Really goes to show how much people's ability to think rationally is clouded by emotion
I don't have to love Steve Jobs to recognize how revolutionary the iPhone was for society
e92s65king@reddit
I mean your on reddit… most of the people on here are not old enough to drive
kubyx@reddit
Perfect example of all of the blind anti-Tesla rage we see on here.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Nothing illustrated that better than the canyon "run" at the end. Incredible how smooth/natural/versatile that adas system has become. Is it still less than what was promised years prior, absolutely, there still isn't anything quite like it on the market
graybrick@reddit
cammisa is meh, ok, but the over produced grandiose productions that hagerty makes are just awful.
toyourleft@reddit
Pretty sure the most important car of my lifetime is the Ford Explorer
Dark_Knight2000@reddit
I mean the Ford Explorer was certainly one of the first really popular mid size SUVs, but you kind of have to ask how different an SUV is from a wagon.
Tesla’s style of developing and selling an EV is a complete shake up to the way cars as a product are made and sold.
RitzyIsHere@reddit
So sad that S and X were discontinued without launching in my market.
Energy4Days@reddit
The funny thing is, the Fisker Karma beat it to market but it's largely forgotten about
MRDR1NL@reddit
I agree with that it was the most significant car in long time. But I don't think anyone thinks that a non round steering wheel with capacitive blinker buttons counts as "never stopped improving".
youknowwhatImean662@reddit
Enjoy the commodity fetishism in the video, but these cars are going to be worthless and all going to end up in the bin. Car of my lifetime so far is the McLaren F1.
GGCRX@reddit
Tesla is kind of a fascinating company to study. It got so much right, particularly in the beginning, and then shot itself in the foot over and over again.
I won't get into Musk's politics save to say that his political activities caused immeasurable harm to the brand. But even if you erased everything he ever did in politics, his late-stage work has been terrible for the company.
When the Model S came out, it was revolutionary. Literally. People drooled over it.
But then Musk's behavior as pertained to Tesla began chipping away at the company's public perception.
Whether it was the decision to remote-disable paid-for features on used cars or the obvious outright lies about "autopilot" or the constant monkeying with customer warranties and subscriptions, Tesla became known as the awesome car maker that treats its owners like shit.
Long before Musk ever got into politics, I'd gone from "I really want one for my next car" to "I wouldn't buy one on a bet."
777-300ER@reddit
Shot itself in the foot? The Model Y is the best selling car in the world. I should shoot myself in the foot to be lucky with so much success.
walnut100@reddit
Commonly false assumption due to Musk lying on twitter but the Model Y was only the best selling car in 2023.
Also their sales have continued to fall YoY.
777-300ER@reddit
Yeah man, overall new vehicle sales have decreased at least in the US 9%. No shit.
SavageryRox@reddit
source: trust me bro.
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
Bro where are you getting your information from? Not only is the Model Y not the best selling car in the world, overall new vehicle sales in the United States have been increasing for years since the recovery from COVID. If you're comparing 2019 to 2025, that's only a 4.7% decrease, but market has been recovering YoY since COVID.
walnut100@reddit
Nope, total US automotive sales grew 2% the past two years.
GGCRX@reddit
Old data. In 2025, it was the Rav4.
a_single_beat2@reddit
By a handful of cars.
BlackfinJack@reddit
?
You need to zoom out. Tesla's target is robotics, battery, and autonomy. The vehicle was the perfect training ground for all of that.
Like Elon or not that's his brilliance. Breaking down 50 years visions into 5.
GGCRX@reddit
For /r/cars purposes, Tesla is a car company. Because it, you know, makes and sells cars.
Yamaha makes band instruments, but that doesn't mean it can say "well the motorcycles are just to learn how to work metal so we can make better band instruments, our customers should accept shitty bikes."
Whatever Musk thinks his goal is this week, his company sells cars and fucks its car customers over.
DaBanninator@reddit
Gotta love reddit knee jerk down vote everything about Tesla because Elon hurt my feelings 🤣
Astramael@reddit
Just so we’re clear here, the problem with Musk has nothing to do with feelings. He is a regressive force on a global scale. One of the people instrumental in bringing about the instability we are all enjoying. Including those very high gas prices everybody likes to complain about.
CraigJay@reddit
It’s funny to call him regressive when it would be easy to make an argument that through his companies he’s one of the most impactful and powerful driving force behind technology, sustainability, economics, and even touching into global politics human there has been in a very long time
It’s very easy to disagree with his politics like you and I both do, but if you’re able to put emotion aside and think objectively, it’s seriously hard to find someone in the last say 50-100 years who’s progressed the world like he has
Astramael@reddit
I do not agree at all. Musk is a footnote that doesn’t even come close to the level of progressive impact as somebody like FDR.
CraigJay@reddit
Starting the first EV company with any commercial success and bringing about EV cars as a viable option which now every first world and developing country has made a policy and a key target to protect. Creating SpaceX and being behind the biggest leaps in space exploration since we landed on the moon. Creating Starlink which is leading the way in making internet affordable and viable for everyone on earth. Creating Starlink which is one of the biggest factors in Ukraine’s ability to have halted Russia’s invasion of Europe.
You’re assuming that because these things made him money that their impact is lessened, but that’s just not true. There are obviously other ventures he’s tried which haven’t been commercial success and so you could argue that the invention of these successful companies is what brings him money, not that there is money available after he’s made the businesses successful first
Astramael@reddit
I’m not, I’m saying that he doesn’t do things for any reason other than self enrichment. Usually progressive outcomes need to be paired with a certain altruism to be very effective. If they aren’t then they tend to be quite reckless and cause a lot of harm as part of their impact. This is, unsurprisingly, nearly always the case with Musk projects.
Hang on now, you’re making a different argument than before. Impact is an arguable thing. I don’t think EVs are especially revolutionary. They are an evolutionary development that don’t solve most of the fundamental issues with mobility. Especially the way Tesla does it which is extra not innovative.
Buying into (not starting) an EV company and then following government incentives into a successful product isn’t especially progressive.
As far as SpaceX, I’m a bit too close to that clown show to comment objectively, so I will leave it alone.
SnowDucks1985@reddit
It doesn’t get much better said than this
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Kind of hypocritical for someone with Toyota in their flair though.
SnowDucks1985@reddit
Please don’t be weird in my replies, it’s common sense that what the leaders of Tesla and Toyota are doing to the world are nowhere near close to one another 😭
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
You're right, Toyota is unsurprisingly a very conservative company and they have good reason to halt progress.
That was the reason I've pointed out the hypocrisy of that statement.
SnowDucks1985@reddit
Owning a conservative leaning company’s car doesn’t make you a hypocrite for criticizing a completely different person, at a completely different company doing a completely different scale of harm than the former 💀
Don’t start arguments with strangers on illogical footing, nothing else to discuss with you
pernodforpassingtime@reddit
Right. This dude's was a quintessential knee-jerk reaction itself. Completely agree with Cammisa that Tesla has been instrumental to the EV space, so much that followed being derivative of their philosophy, approach, and very design language. Still, I won't touch them because of what Musk has done and continues to do beyond the company.
These are totally separate matters.
blazbluecore@reddit
So…they’re not separate matters to you.
🤡
redd5ive@reddit
What does this even mean? You can acknowledge that Tesla has been revolutionary without wanting to purchase one.
blazbluecore@reddit
What instability is Elon creating…?
DaBanninator@reddit
Elon hurt your feelings, got it 😭
fiddlythingsATX@reddit
Remember when he lied about opening the patents? Good times…
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a_single_beat2@reddit
Imagine having feelings hurt by twitter lmfao.
KyleSherzenberg@reddit
What about the Prius?
readwiteandblu@reddit
I watched this earlier today. As usual, Camissa's videos are incredible. And he really makes a good case for Tesla.
soopastar@reddit
I do agree. Just behind it is the Toyota Prius. Both converted culture. I have three cars - an suv, a hot hatch, and a full EV. Would also love to have a gas hungry v8 but I love all my cars and I think the EV is the best.
Bebealex@reddit
I keep saying consumers don't vote with their wallets. Informed consumers do. Most people buy what they get told to buy. So few people care about more than themselves because we get told that we won't make a difference. (Not putting a cent in Tesla's CEO)
fuf3d@reddit
Is this Satire? Model s/
New_Ad_3010@reddit
Vomit in a thousand directions
bummerbimmer@reddit
58% upvote ratio is hilarious. r/cars never fails to make me giggle.
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Snazzy21@reddit
Car interior design and usability took a dive as a result of this car.
I know that continual small updates that don't get any attention will make finding parts for model S a nightmare in 20 years. I thought having 4 different variations of speedometer in 6 years was bad, this will be on a new level
True2this@reddit
Loved my Model S. Before the self driving BS. Just a fun electric car with good quality. Too bad it got totaled from a fender bender
sleevieb@reddit
This was the best video on cartube all year until I saw the self driving canyon clip and it became the best video on cartube of all time.
RevvedUpLikeADeuce09@reddit
Objectively, yes. Subjectively, hell no.
November87@reddit
Its always been a pile
IWantToPlayGame@reddit
This video was extremely well done.
argent_pixel@reddit
Fitting that the most impactful thing Tesla has made was also the one the ketamine addict who can't play Diablo was least responsible for.
feelybeurre@reddit
I remember driving the P85+ what a fun machine
MisterDoctor___@reddit
I’d argue the Prius is.
PMWaffle@reddit
prius is for sure important but i dont think it can be argued as more revolutionary. tesla & the model s not only changed the landscape of the industry far quicker than what the prius did, it fostered a new household, independent car brand for the first time in decades which is an insane feat in and of itself and opened the door for many others.
03Void@reddit
And every Gen of Prius until the current one was perceived as uncool.
PRSArchon@reddit
And for a lot of people if gives you the worst of both worlds. It's a matter of persective, ICE, hybrid and EV all have their own use cases.
sbstndalton@reddit
This video is also pretty great on the history of Tesla’s Model S:
https://youtu.be/c7dgaE4cHD8?si=bGQhQVeqM1pLd4Z5
gillflicka@reddit
It's just too bad that the moral hazard forced upon us by its success in the market fully negates the reason for its development.
SolaceinIron@reddit
Disagree, the MKIV Supra was my sexual awakening.
PanadaTM@reddit
Insane because the mk4 supra is the ugliest 2 door Toyota ever made
AwesomeBantha@reddit
Have you ever seen a gen 1-2 Toyota Kijang truck?
SolaceinIron@reddit
Disagree, the MKIV Supra was my sexual awakening. False
PurpleSausage77@reddit
Love my 2014 Model S. Keeping the nosecone, as much as I’d like to put a facelift front bumper on it.
First nicest looking mass produced EV that came out. Henrik Fisker (Karma) and Mercedes CLS are in its design/DNA. Super interesting story behind the car.
Vol_in_tears@reddit
I would suggest it is probably a jeep Cherokee or Ford Explorer. The majority of vehicles of the road are SUV's and it all starts with their legacy.
MrCamouflage65@reddit
I think i remember watching a Doug de Muro video where he had the same take, i think it was most important cars since 2000 or something alike
yobo9193@reddit
I agree with his main statement, but like usual, Jason tries to present his opinions as facts:
So we’re supposed to be in awe that Tesla continuously changed and updated minuscule parts? A car company can update part numbers at any time, they typically don’t because of supply chain concerns. I don’t think updating part numbers is equivalent to “progress”.
Except it has a CEO, a Board of Directors, and VP/SVP’s of departments
I’m sorry, are you serious?? Model year changes are constantly taking place as packages get removed, part numbers are updated and revised, and sometimes huge changes take place outside of a facelift (like the F22 2 series had a year where you could get the new B46 engine but the old interior, while the interior was refreshed a year later)
Yes, Tesla got away from the normal production cycle because they were on life support and survived solely on CAFE credits and startup funding. They didn’t have the funding to introduce/facelift/refresh like every other car company and had to enshittify during the life cycle (like how they removed lidar sensors from the cars to the point that owners would have their cars in for service and find out that the lidar sensors have been removed).
Yes, but not because of panel gaps; it had to due with the fact that they were experiencing millions of dollars in losses that were unsustainable for a traditional company.
Another entertaining but highly opinionated video from Jason
BlackfinJack@reddit
Your critique here feels lacking understanding of how products are made and corporations are run.
So yes, all those things were headwinds for Tesla.
a_single_beat2@reddit
It showed that Big Auto is more concerned for its supply chains being happy that consumers being happy.
Its not structured like a typical car company because a typical car company is more of a USSR styled bureaucracy than a capitalist corporation.
Yes, changes are made, but are typically very, very minor. The big changes are typically in development along side current refreshes for over a decade. BMW didn't go from F22 to B48 overnight. They didn't retool their entire factory going from one generation to the next. Now try going from traditional casting to gigacasting....
Solely on CAFE credits? Then why didn't other auto makers do the same if its so profitable? Laughable excuse for corporate incompetence from legacy automakers.
So tesla taking billions in losses and yet making it, while other auto makers had solid cash flow and didn't do shit, is your excuse? Are you reading what you are typing before posting it?
AmericanExcellence@reddit
this fucking guy...
dumahim@reddit
is awesome
RevvCats@reddit
Dude just can’t stop sucking off Elmo, I did not see that coming.
I still can’t get over that garbage video he did the other year trying to shill the Model 3 performance over the M3. Set aside the bullshit he pulled to inflate the price of the M3 and downplay the Model 3’s cost, some people like fast cars that can go around a track more than once before gassing out and going into limp mode.
Did he go over the years of empty self driving promises? How about the free cremations Tesla gives your rear passengers when you crash it because they can’t be bothered to build a simple way to manually open the doors? The ass build quality and spartan interior that’s anything but luxurious? How about the suspension parts that shit the bed?
Funny how this comes out the day after Teslas shitty earning report. They’re a robot company now btw in case you didn’t listen in.
I have no doubt the Chinese would still be building better EVs right now if the Tesla Model S never existed.
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BahnMe@reddit
It’s the 3 or Y because that’s what people actually bought. Sadly it’s probably the Y.
martin509984@reddit
It depends on if you think the innovation or the adoption is the important part. For me it's the innovation.
For instance, the Simca 1100 invented the modern FWD hatchback, but the Golf made it popular. The Golf nailed the product planning and overall design priorities of a hatchback, but the Simca proved the entire concept of "transverse FWD, end-on transmission, conventional suspension and a hatchback in compact size". It only faltered in being a bit less robust and a bit too softly sprung for what people really wanted.
Same deal with the Model S. It proved the entire concept of a large, expensive EV that solved the range problem with a massive and (for the time) advanced battery pack, and showed that the Leaf style of "minimum possible car to get the most out of a small battery" was a dead end. The Model 3/Y put it in a more palatable price point but the technical concept (and the market) was proven by that point.
spatel14@reddit
Right, but the S established that the 3 and Y were even possible.
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
The argument is that the Model S is the sole reason those (and the larger consumer EV market) exist in the first place
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