FR2144 go-around at Kaunas due to GPS jamming

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PerforatedPie@reddit

Aren't their GPS' always spoofed? They keep thinking capital cities are in rural areas.

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cafe_brutale@reddit

Not familiar with Ryanair SOP but not having the ability to brief a contingency procedure in case of a loss of RNP capability seems weird.

They are flying in an area of very well known GNSS interference risk, to put it mildly. It should be common sense to establish an alternate means of action - ”in case of interference, continue with visual reference with x y z parameters in speed, profile and configuration.”

Doing a go-around in clear sky weather just because they weren’t prepared is stupid.

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Woutors@reddit

I am not familiar with Ryanair SOP's either but I think of a reason why they aren't allowed to set up for 2 different approach types. This would be to prevent confusion about the minimums which are different for each approach type

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Stoney3K@reddit

So if they were going around on final it means they were probably flying an RNAV approach and the signal got lost, meaning they probably went around for an ILS or non-precision on the next lap.

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seattle747@reddit

Why not a visual? Wx looks clear.

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Stoney3K@reddit

I kind of wonder why they didn't just go for visual on the first try when they noticed GPS was out. Or maybe they tried making a visual approach and missed.

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Sendvicc@reddit

Because company's SOP mandate a special briefing before conducting a visual approach, with a new minimum and so on. It's very annoying but that's the company philosophy

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rokiiss@reddit

It's annoying but operational procedures exists for a reason in companies. While I work in IT and have the ability to move laterally with my decisions I would certainly understand a company saying that a special briefing be done to make sure everyone is aligned on the final goal. Specially when carrying humans.

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latedescent@reddit

Depends on the company and SOPs. At mine we brief contingency in case we lose signal VMC, we’ll just continue and land. Some airlines don’t allow visuals at all as well.

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Careful-Republic-332@reddit

VisualS can also be just forbidden in some companies.

I fly from Helsinki and we would not even try RNAV approach in that area because the spoofing is daily.

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GenerolMajorJust@reddit

The solution

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Evocatorum@reddit

Even if Lithuania fielded the entire population of the country, they wouldn't have enough people to capture and hold Kaliningrad. Poland, on the other hand, does.

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itsirk09@reddit

No one in the right mind wants that land, neither in Poland or Lithuania. It's worthless due to either of us having to deal this entirely brain-washed Pro-Russian population that lives there, that just feeds off your tax income, but also does not want to move back to actual Russia.

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GenerolMajorJust@reddit

we'd just deport them to the motherland like russia did to the germans living there, and i think it wouldn't have much influence on poland the population in kaliningrad is like 500-600k ? thats another city in poland..

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itsirk09@reddit

You are living in a fantasy world.

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PerforatedPie@reddit

Yes but in the real world the US has a president that would be rejected from a Saturday morning cartoon writer's room for being too unrealistic.

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GenerolMajorJust@reddit

out of the 2,8m people i think theres around a million of working people wouldn't that be enough ? and also you woudn't need a lot of manpower to liberate kaliningrad you could just bomb it with artillery and mlrs if lithuania really tried i think they could. all the manpower from kaliningrad is in ukraine.

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Pakapuka@reddit

It was actually considered during soviet times. Lithuanians managed to decline the idea, because no one wanted to add more russians people to the population. Ya know, the ones that can suddenly "feel oppressed" and ask for a special military operation to free them.

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GenerolMajorJust@reddit

wouldn't made any difference as russia already brought in like 300-400k ethnic russians into lithuania during the soviet union, whats interesting is if we would've acepted it, it would've became independent with lithuania and all the russians just nutarally died..

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Pakapuka@reddit

I dont agree.

They have like one million population right now. I'm not sure how much of them were living there during soviet times, but a concentrated ethnic group with imperial mindset in such large numbers would likely not assimilate into Lithuanian culture. It would've mess with things like referendums for joining EU and NATO.

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mpg111@reddit

I think Czechia has dibs on Kaliningrad - it will be called Královec. You have to respect dibs

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Hareboi@reddit

Why north-east Poland too?

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GenerolMajorJust@reddit

i didn't make this, found it like this i think on instagram or tik tok i think because it was prussians lands which poland gained after ww2

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PerforatedPie@reddit

Spoofing, not jamming.

Jamming blocks the signal. Spoofing pretends to be a legit satellite but gives the wrong information, leading to false readings.

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ChewyChagnuts@reddit

Maybe tell people about the electronic jamming once you’ve landed safely rather than having just done a Go Around?

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Adjutant_Reflex_@reddit

This is excellent communication from the cockpit to concisely explain what happened and reassure passengers there’s nothing wrong.

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ChewyChagnuts@reddit

Completely agree about the need to give some information about the need for the go around, but perhaps the bit about being the subject of electronic warfare could be left until the end of the flight.

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Adjutant_Reflex_@reddit

Why? It’s well established that Russia has been running a massive GPS spoofing operation out of the exclave for months now. It’s a fact and explains why they aborted landing in otherwise ideal conditions.

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PsychologicalGlass47@reddit

For what reason?

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Ruepic@reddit

GPS jamming and spoofing is so common, it’s just another day for pilots, passengers should also know that too.

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IntergalacticPodcast@reddit

I'd want to know why I'm flying in circles. Landing manually on a clear day seems a lot less scary than what I would come up with in my mind as an explanation.

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Electrical_Report458@reddit

If a guy can’t fly a visual approach in weather like that he’s not much of a pilot.

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Same_Ambassador_5780@reddit

These GPS spoofing events can cause the Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning system to activate - it is more common in recent years. GPWS warning can trigger in the cruise in which case it can be disregarded. However, if one is triggered below the minimum safe altitude, it is best practice to go around if one is unsure of their exact position and a potential GPWS warning wasn't briefed (even if visual).

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Mad_kat4@reddit

That's interesting, so if the gpws kicked off on say a night approach where there's less visual reference would that spook a pilot initially to do a goaround before checking things like the RA?

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Same_Ambassador_5780@reddit

Exactly. It depends on the type of approach being flown and if one is flying in a region with known GPS jamming/spoofing. Spoofing is the bigger threat as it mimics a "valid" GPS signal and can corrupt the aircrafts terrain database, or makes the aircraft believe it is in a different location both laterally (map shift) and vertically (GPS Altitude). It affects multiple systems onboard.

Airlines have procedures and guidance in place to help prevent/ manage these issues. Eg, turning off GPS receivers and turning off the EGPWS (Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning System) in known areas of GPS signal inference

If a GPWS warning is triggered in poor visual conditions and it wasn't expected or briefed; the pilot should carry out the terrain escape maneuver or go around. We can use other navaids to confirm our position, confirm the barometric pressure settings and get radar vectors to an ILS approach, rather than flying an RNAV arrival on to an RNAV approach.

False EGPWS warnings, even when briefed, at low altitude and in 'poor visual' conditions can be very startling but an approach can be continued if the pilot deem it safe to do so.

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Disastrous-Run-3963@reddit

This fits very well if you read between the lines what the captain is saying.

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PsychologicalGlass47@reddit

Have fun losing your job, bub.

Oh.... Right, you aren't a pilot.

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Miraclefish@reddit

You realise that for an airline pilot to switch from a planned ILS or otherwise precision approach to a visual only one isn't a split second decision you can make, right?

It requires a new crew briefing and a new approach, establishing new minimums and checking the missed approach procedure which may well be different...

You call a qualified airline pilot following company procedure to the letter 'not much of a pilot' from your reddit profile?

What the fuck?

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Aksds@reddit

A pilot who does a go around because they aren’t comfortable is always better than one that doesn’t (but is still uncomfortable), I would rather reduce the risk of crashing for whatever reason

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Techhead7890@reddit

0:35 it's SOP. Better to be consistent, set up properly, and get it right.

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Murky-Resident-3082@reddit

Maybe VORs and ILSs aren’t so bad after all

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airport-codes@reddit

IATA	ICAO	Name	Location
GPS	SEGS	Seymour Airport	Baltra, Galapagos, Ecuador

I am a bot.

^(If you are the OP and this comment is inaccurate or unwanted, reply below with "bad bot" and it will be deleted.)

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RatInaMaze@reddit

Some humans are shit, aren’t they?