Has the rate of women wearing islamic headscarves increased in your country / city lately? In Albania, they were virtually nonexistent back in the 2000s up until early 2010s, but every time I visit Tirana now, I see a couple of them randomly around the city.
Posted by Substratas@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 462 comments
The number of covered women is still very small relative to the general population of women, however I have a hard time not noticing since I nearly never saw one before moving abroad.
Solmyr_@reddit
similar to bosnia. 10 years ago there were none and now there are plenty
Citaku357@reddit
The more poor a country gets, the more religious it becomes.
Open_Chemical_5575@reddit
your conclusions are also superficial
Comprehensive_Gap334@reddit
Boania has the highest average annual salary increase of all European countries. In the last 10 years, the standard has increased a lot.
Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit
No, there is a very strong propaganda. Bilboards shaming women to wear it. It is strange, someone is paying money to make it happen.
waillord_@reddit
not true, if that was the case then how are gulf countries still so religious?
Ok-Fuel-9357@reddit
So you r saying bosnia (and every other country in the balkans) are worse off financially now than 10-20 years ago?
Citaku357@reddit
Can't talk about every balkan country, but in Kosova things haven't improved that much
Commercial_Handle418@reddit
That's happening in my non balkan country of origin too
Citaku357@reddit
This is not only exclusive to the balkans
Alex_1729@reddit
This is unfortunately true.
titaincognita@reddit
I have noticed the same thing. First time I visited was 7 years ago, and there were some but not many. Then a couple years later and I'm back again and I say something to my husband. Same city, everything. And he said maybe its because its Ramadan? It was the right time then, but that wasn't it. Now, 7 years later, you see so many women not wearing a hijab, but whole niqab and completely veiled. Contrast that to his older relatives in the village that literally just cover their hair (not hijab covering the neck), if anything at all.
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
In Turkey, it's roughly fifty-fifty half of the women wear it and the other half don't. However, most of the children of those who wear the hijab choose not to wear it themselves.
RijnBrugge@reddit
I live in a very Turkish neigbborhood of Cologne and I would estimate it‘s about 50/50 here, maybe fewer women wearing it than those who do, could be 60/40 that way. Where I work there’s mainly a lot of Iranians, 0% of their women wear headscarves here.
Jimmiejammie123@reddit
Deutschtürken ≠ People from Turkey
RijnBrugge@reddit
As if I‘m not aware of that, I specified it.
Jimmiejammie123@reddit
This is AskBalkans is all...
RijnBrugge@reddit
And some of the regions of Turkey that get discussed are not in the Balkans nor even in Europe, so relax a bit. I added a comment as a point of comparison of interest to the Turkish person I replied to.
Jimmiejammie123@reddit
Yeah but Turkey is a Balkan country, whether certain regions within the country are or aren't is not the issue. Germany definitely isn't and as another commenter pointed out, "Turkish" people in Germany are not really considered Turkish in Turkey.
RijnBrugge@reddit
They’re citizens of that Balkan state though, who cares what someone thinks ;) You’re being unnecessarily nitpicky for no reason.
Rejnu@reddit
Tbf Deutschtürken are pretty different from Turkish people. They are often times not seen as Turkish by Turkey Turks and are usually the decendence of more rural/konservative Turks which migrated to Central Europe.
RijnBrugge@reddit
I know I specified that they’re German Turks to give an interesting point of comparison to Turkey.
Citaku357@reddit
Alevi descent?
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
Pro Bektashism
Citaku357@reddit
What an dumbass
PowerfulSkirt3788@reddit
i think it really depends on which area you live. i live in a more “westernized” province and not many women wear it here. i guess that number would be higher in more eastern regions but i still think it is like 30% of the total woman population
KediSiken3169@reddit
half? i suppose it depends on where you live but it feels like only 10-20% of women wear hijabs at where i live
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit
In the place where I live, not even 10% wear it; in fact, it's often frowned upon. However, if you've ever been to the eastern provinces, the picture is exactly the opposite.
Open_Chemical_5575@reddit
In Bosnia and Herzegovina, the number of women wearing the hijab has increased, especially young women.
Yugoslavia forced the narrative that women who wear a headscarf are "peasants", so many women took off their headscarves and did those curly hairstyles (mini waves) in order to fit into the socially imposed norms. However, today they have freedom and choose their own path. Just as others choose their own path whether to strip half-naked, do drugs, etc.
Scared_Potential_805@reddit
Im a Bosnian, yes it has increased and I dont like it.
I know a lot of people who put on a hijab while still doing immoral shit while telling me "YoU MuST Go To ThE MoSQuE, YoUrE a KaFiR." While her body count is over 10 before putting it on.
Same goes for the men who are letting out their beards grow out like a forest bush.
titaincognita@reddit
Lol my favorite is seeing a hijabi at the bus stop smoking a cigarette before getting on. Bought a house from a "religious figure" last year. Now that we're doing some landscaping....beer cans and bottles EVERYWHERE. He tried to get out of the contract by stating religious and moral objections to the fact that we needed a mortgage. And refused to GIVE BACK the cash portion of the deal. Told us to take it up with God. My husband likes to say people with these overly religious outward appearances are good because you know exactly what you're getting. Most likely an asshole looking to take advantage of you.
Scared_Potential_805@reddit
Pretty much lol.
I used to work in a bar 2 years ago. When it was prayer time on friday. Not sure about the name in English but in Bosnian its "džuma". A lot of people would come have a beer or some hard liqor before going there.
Then those exact same people would preach to me about morals and how Im going to hell for not being religious.
taraba707@reddit
Dnevna doza Bošnje
Citaku357@reddit
My biggest issue with religion is that religious people try to force their religious beliefs to others. What do they care if I am doing something haram/sinful, it's my life and god will not judge them for my mistakes
atzitzi@reddit
Because people are like this. They want to feel superior. Look how will they shame a fat woman who is in a cover of a magazine wearing something nice. They will be ruthless and then say they do it because they care for her health! Or not young women see her and catch fatness or sth!
Scared_Potential_805@reddit
Exactly lol.
Bosnian muslims will drink, do drugs, have sex before marriage etc but wont eat pork since its haram? Yet those same people will criticise me because my partner is a Croatian and I dont believe in anything?
Like my guy clean up your yard first.
Citaku357@reddit
What's even more funny is that, judging others is sinful/haram and yet religious people still do it lol
labubufxgg0t@reddit
incel😬😬
Scared_Potential_805@reddit
Saying the truth is bad now? On Instagram religious larpers and yappers used to have an OF or do immoral shit.
labubufxgg0t@reddit
the way you call someone you dont know immoral solely because they had sex proves that you aren incel yes.
titaincognita@reddit
No, let the point fly straight over your head. What hes saying is, the worst umongst us are usually the first to do all the stuff you're "morally" not supposed to do and then turn around and tell YOU you're the bad guy for not believing in God or whatever bastardized version of religion they practice. Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is the point.
labubufxgg0t@reddit
“while her bodycount is above 10” is crazy tho. this person might be atheist secular or whatever but he clearly carries backwardness of muslim religion. I get what you mean but if you can’t see what he was point at specifically thats on you🤷
Ok-Goal-3696@reddit
Morality is subjective though
Greek_Bodybuilder995@reddit
If it's of any consolation, religious fundamentalism is increasing in Greece, too. We have a marked increase in "Christian Nationalist" content creators who believe alcohol is a sin (it is in Orthodoxy but no one dares ban it in Greece), as there are attempts in Greek politics to "initiate a discussion" on the rights of women to abortion (which has been legal in Greece for decades). Fewer Greeks are religious, BUT those who are become steadily more radicalised.
Bloubloum@reddit
I have never met any muslim Albanian woman in Greece that wears a hijab.
And I have met muslim Albanians (though most are Orthodox or Catholic Christians).
Academic-Sun576@reddit
In Turkey it dropped actually
zara_anwar@reddit
In Albania, going to mosque you'll notice more young people (15-29) than older generations, especially during the holy month. And yes the number of women wearing headscarves has increased drastically.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
My cousin in her mid 30s told me the same about the Gen Z girls working with her. She is in disbelief because this ”shift” started happening very lately and many people don’t know what is causing it…
thefriendlyhacker@reddit
A few reasons, Gen Z grew up isolated with information overload whereas when I was a bored kid I would just play outside with sticks and friends. This led to a lot of Gen Z feeling anxiety about where to find authority/order, thus putting religion back into frame. There are also not many good places for young people to find a community for free, religions offer a free community.
Gen Z also probably the most fragmented generation, it is a lot more permissible to be in your own niche and not follow the status quo. So the hijab gains popularity because there's less stigma against religion, less stigma about being a minority, and our society forces beauty standards down everyone's throat all the time and the hijab can be seen as a refusal of needing your hair to be beautiful all the time. Why would I spend 30 minutes on my hair each morning when I can just throw on a hijab and people wouldn't care?
zara_anwar@reddit
Social media 100% you have a loooot more religious content around TikTok or Instagram. This and of course Turkish and Qatari "investment" in Albania.
Citaku357@reddit
The amount of Muslim "Albanians" insulting Skenderbeg and calling him kafir, and calling Christian Albanians serbs is insane. The damage that social media especially apps like tiktok and Instagram has caused will be felt for decades to come.
equili92@reddit
Isn't Skenderbeg a or rather THE national hero amongst albanians?
NoDevice2698@reddit
Many Turks insults Ataturk and call him a Kuffar. Traitors are Traitors, salafi Muslims are cancer to non Arab muslims
Citaku357@reddit
Which is fucking insane, because Ataturk has done more for Turkey and Turkish people than nearly all the sultans combined. The salafi are what evangelicals are to Christians. Extreme lunatics.
we_wuzz_kangz@reddit
Ataturk was a foreign psyop
AgitatedDare2445@reddit
?
NoDevice2698@reddit
Salafism and Evangelical church are both serving to israeli temple
Both_Historian_3025@reddit
As a evangelical: the compare to salafism is massive BS! Or you talk about the US?
NoDevice2698@reddit
I said salafism and evangelical church are working for Israel. I didn't say "salafism and evangelical Christianity are the same things"
Citaku357@reddit
Knowing how close Salafist countries are to Israel, this absolutely true.
PersimmonOver7470@reddit
Hold your horses there. Second Mehmet is the father of all Turks even of all the Balkans.
NoDevice2698@reddit
Salafism and Evangelical church are both serving to israeli temple
Classic_Associate_73@reddit
It’s not just salafist Muslims. Any self respecting Muslim could clearly see that Ataurk hated Islam and wanted to remove any aspect of it in Türkiye. This isn’t even slightly controversial. He banned the Adhan, banned Hijabs, banned Quran recitation. People were beaten for reciting the Quran, even a Shia could tell you about Ataturk
NoDevice2698@reddit
All lies. My family produced many hodjas and that's a complete lie.
zara_anwar@reddit
I remember those guys getting beaten up in Prizren but again we're very far from division nealy all Albanians consider Skanderbeg a national hero but there are some fractions of religious extremists working closely with foreign imams from Turkey.
Citaku357@reddit
Who got beaten up in Prizren? Also those extremists are growing, do you know how many Albanians have joined ISIS or how many have been arrested to terrorism these last few years? Even police officer recently in Kosova was killed by one of this lunatics.
zara_anwar@reddit
This is all Kosovos government fault. They liberalized foreign investment in religious and cultural areas to put Kosovo into a better global position and make it more recognized among the Muslim world. Foreign fundamentalists took good Advantage of that, you have one of the highest number of mosques per capita which is completely unnecessary but Kosovos government was just to afraid to say stop because what about recognition. Who recruited those ISIS fighters in Kosovo or how many citizenships did those terrorists hold?
It's not the people it's the politics behind it.
Citaku357@reddit
You are absolutely right, our government should be blamed for this mess and what's worse they aren't doing nothing about this, mosques are being built with money from who knows where, imams are spewing out hate and our government is clueless as ever. But at the same time people should also be blamed for some of it because no one is forcing you to go to Iraq fighting for ISIS
IfICode@reddit
Kosovo literally has better anti-fundamental laws than albania and even bans the hijabi in schools
There is also massive convertion going on in Kosovo from muslim to christian
I don’t believe what you guys are saying, at all.
feathcr@reddit
do you have any sources? i would rly like to know more about this
IfICode@reddit
https://amp.dw.com/en/no-headscarves-in-kosovos-classrooms/video-75538975
Here, german source
GimiderKing@reddit
The amount of christian „albanians“ calling muslim albanins turks or arabs is insane too. And no i am not a muslim but i have only seen hatred from christian albanians but never from muslim albanians. Muslim albanians don‘t seem to care about christians while the christians have made it their life goal to insult islam and albanian muslims.
waillord_@reddit
same with Egyptians. egyptian muslims love their fellow christians, coptic egyptians hate the muslim egyptians passionately.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Those live in western countries. It is compesation because they feel lower from the conationals in their respective countries.
thatsexypotato-@reddit
Bullshit so many Muslim Albanians are insulting Christian Albanians
Citaku357@reddit
And of you don't believe me, go asking a really religious Muslim Albanian what they think of Skenderbeg and come back at me
Citaku357@reddit
True what you said about those so called Christian "Albanians" they suck too, but you are bullshiting me if you say that some Muslim "Albanians" are insulting Christian Albanians or our national hero skenderbeg.
Badger-Open@reddit
That's not new though. I have some friends in Croatia and Italy who are descendants from Albania that moved for that reason.
Modestpath99@reddit
Another factor is maybe religion is slowly coming back after decades of suppression under communism?
Either-Condition4586@reddit
It's very alarming that religious people are growing. What a shame in 21 century see that kind of shit and none of the governments are acting
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
It's only alarming if you're completely detached and surrendered the territory to others. Of course religious people are growing. Life is only going to become worse and worse in the decades to come, and, as it does, religion will skyrocket.
Either-Condition4586@reddit
No,I am just smart enough for not to fall in some honey fairytales about some dead jew or dead arab who said something 1000 years ago. Life isn't that bad as iy seems. All this aggressive religious propaganda is payed up by Russia,Iran and US
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
You're not smart. You just have a psychological predisposition towards taking the stance that you do. Also, it's not about life being bad. It's not a philosophical discussion. It's about deteriorating living standards (or perceived deterioration) and how that always leads either to political radicalization, religiosity, or total detachment. I don't even know where you're seeing the religious propaganda. Unless you mean memes on Instagram or TikTok. What propaganda are you referring to, exactly?
Either-Condition4586@reddit
Russian of course. This orthodox church who forced us learn lessons about religion in school,and then forced us to go to Military church
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
What? Listen, you were talking about propaganda. And this topic is about people who are converting to religion today. I'm not asking for you to explain to me how the Orthodox church works or that there are many within Orthodoxy even in non-aligned states that still push Russian talking points.
You said it comes from the USA and Iran too. Where the fuck is this Iranian propaganda? What is it? Show me. Explain it.
Either-Condition4586@reddit
It's in Instagram or TT. This two are the greatest evil shits in the world where they put Jesus propaganda in young minds
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
So you think memes made by zoomers on TikTok and Instagram for the lulz are state propaganda done by the Iranians to captivate young minds? This is the argument?
Either-Condition4586@reddit
Of course it's a propaganda. You don't take this problem serious enough,like the modern day states. Christianity and other churches will use any source or lie to gain as much followers as they can
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
I mean, look, what can I say... from what you're saying, anything at all is propaganda. In which case I'd say it's pretty bad if your entire media apparatus that reinforces your beliefs is losing to Insta reels made by bored zoomers.
But in the end, you're just wrong. Religion is organically on the rise among zoomers and alphas. When the world has nothing to offer, religion becomes a crutch that makes things bearable. Evidence of this, by the way, is that if you ask many young religious people what their stances are they're also far more conservative. They have different values from millennials.
So this isn't people falling for religious propaganda and becoming religious everything being equal. The new generations are completely different in their outlook in a way that you find regressive. And it is regressive. But you better get used to it, because it will get worse and worse over the coming years. The Europe of the late '30s will be so conservative that the one of the '10s will seem a hundred years in the past.
Either-Condition4586@reddit
As GenZ,I want to say that this regress must be stopped at all cost. You know what's better than fairytales?Money, economic, development pf humanity. Religion will never offer you that,it will offer you a very poor existence where you hate other people just because popes and fashists told you so. Afyer turning much people in religious conservatives,they will start destroying democracies, banning knowledges, closing schools. Then they start killing LGBT people, disabled people. Then the war, because that kind of society always need enemy to exist. Christianity will start the war,no matter who, just war for sake of war. You want this kind of world?Where people will suffer just because some 2000 year old book said so?
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
That's not really true, most religions offer quite a lot of material wealth because they promote clannish behavior. For example, where I live in Romania, many of the richest people in my city are Pentecostals. So it's absolutely wrong to say that religion can't bring money and economic development, depending on what you convert to and where you live it can bring you into the fold and offer you a good life partner and a good job and economic opportunities. You're also forgetting that the bedrock of capitalism was Protestantism and Protestant values.
So, really, if you wanted my advice for what you should do if you value those things, don't be anti-religious, because that's not a stance that comes with a voting bloc, but move to a Protestant country where your values will be the same. Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and Sunni Islam don't share these values -- at all.
The rest of what you said is fearmongering and not really true. Democracy was born (or reborn?), again, out of the Protestant tradition. Liberal values are, in many ways, Protestant values applied to politics. I seriously doubt persecution of gay people is going to restart in most Western nations.
The sort of religiosity you're describing is a very specific, low-IQ Balkan religiosity belonging to conservative boomers where believing in Jesus means you get to beat the shit out of your wife and rape her and do whatever you want. It's ultimately a product of poverty of low intelligence (if you look at the American south, the attitude is similar, though many have the same religion as progressive northerners).
Anyway, I'm not sure why you're asking me if I want that kind of world. I'm an atheist. I always have been. I would gladly pay money to see the Romanian Orthodox church uprooted and destroyed.
But... I'm also a realist. Being against religion is like being against nationalism. If your only stance is AGAINST, then you will lose. People want something to believe in. So the best thing to do is to find a form of religion and nationalism that carries your values. If that's liberal individuality, pacifism, etc. then you can just become a Quaker and move to a country that has a lot of them.
But I do think you are delulu because, let's be honest, you probably know a bunch of atheist guys and girls who are more xenophobic, homophobic than many progressive Christians in America. It's not fundamentally a religious issue.
Either-Condition4586@reddit
Actually not. Most religious people I met are rather insane anti vaccines or fashists. Religion and nationalism are treat to the good people. Treat to globalization and economic development, religion brings money only if you are a bandit or corrupted politician. I see that the late 2030s, religion will become some archaeological boomer type of shit that no one discuss,like paganism. People don't need to believe in anything,they need to believe in money, believe in Bai Lan, believe in themselves. Not in aggressive totalitarian cults or whatever
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
I hear what you're saying, but I need you to understand it's an emotional appeal and not something backed up by evidence. Religion doesn't automatically make someone backwards, or stupid, or whatever. You are associating religion with low-class behavior, because in Europe it has been the tendency for decades if not almost a century (post WWI) to abandon religion in droves. But this is changing. And you will see that, in the future, there will be many highly-educated religious people that are very much aligned with you in your values, thinking, etc. It's just that being religious will become popular again, just like being atheist or agnostic was popular in the 20th century for intellectuals and the upper-class.
Again, if you look at American society this is very apparent because they remained far more religious than we did. So regardless of the state in question, there's a lot of people who are religious, including people who, again, champion the same values you do. You have to speak to some of these people and interact with them before you assume that all religious people are bad.
In many ways, it will also be a good thing, because if religion once again becomes the domain of the elites then they can start policing the primitive religiosity of the lower classes. So you might see an improvement in the general behavior of religious people.
Religion and nationalism aren't a threat, but bad religion and bad nationalism are, and my point is that we must participate in religion and in nationalism in certain ways to make sure they go in the right direction.
Paganism didn't go extinct because people didn't believe in it. Christians had to go and kill those people and get them to convert by force. Which is also what communists tried to do to get people to abandon religion, though they didn't have enough time to make it go the whole way.
The things you are describing, belief in yourself etc., is just your psychological predisposition. You are mistaking that for the standard human model. It is not. The standard human values community above all else. They also don't want to think about their identity or their ultimate purpose. They want friends, a partner, a job, and to be told what to do and what to believe (but to think that they chose freely). That's it.
The world you're describing, the multicultural end-of-history globalized world, is dead. It's not coming back. So you need to think hard about what you really want in life and where you want to go to spend the rest of your years. Because that period is not coming back.
Either-Condition4586@reddit
Globilized world still perfectly exist. I mean, Reddit is a fucking globalization. The internet is globalization,you just believe in pro Russian fashist propaganda. Human being need money,job, achievements and religion will not give you anything from that. If you think that guys who can think that humans were created from clay or that animals can speak,than...well...you are stupid. Did you even read the bible,what kind of disinfo they gave there? All this growth was payed by Russia and US to create tensions,and then destroy democracies,make people more poorer and low IQ to manipulate them. I understand that you have been fallen in pro Russian propaganda,you need to stop consuming it
Inner-Silver9898@reddit
For one, lets not even start naming the enormous contributions religious peoples have made to literally every field of knowledge imaginable, you are automatically declaring yourself superior over them, think about that...
Either-Condition4586@reddit
No no, religious people doesn't recognise science or any inventions. They advocate and make propaganda against intellectuals or development off society. They want to beat up woman,burn books like they always wanted,most of them are against vaccines. Churches need to be under very strict control and high taxes,so they would not turn into mafia
Upstairs_Musician_51@reddit
Extremists maybe, churches maybe, but religious people is not necessarily true. Islam calls for the pursuit of knowledge and for example during the dark ages of europe, religious (arab) muslim scholars spearheaded many new inventions, technologies, advancements in math and science, etc. I could dig up sources if you're actually interested in learning of this. Im not trying to excuse turkey and whatever might be happening in Albania rn (i also have no first-hand knowledge of it), it's just fair to separate what governments and organisations call for and do from what the religion itself calls for.
Another thing i find worthy of noting is that turks are actually never taught the language most of their religion and the quran is in, which makes the populace dependent on perhaps an equivalent pope figure(s) to provide guidance when they dont "know" something, as they're not exactly able to look up the innumerable arabic sources and have to contend with turkish or english translations that might lack in detail or worse, be manipulated with little fear of detection.
I do think though that you're mixing up middle-ages church establishments and their usual intentions with Islam.
zara_anwar@reddit
"none of the governments acting" I'm sorry. What level of Hitlerism Stalinism is this? In eastern Europe people fought for their freedom of choice, there's not reason for the government to intervene in personal matters.
Either-Condition4586@reddit
Because all this religion grow is payed up Russian/US shit in social medias. Religion need to be in far away villages among some boomers,not in cities with GenZ people
zara_anwar@reddit
Idk how to respond to this you butcherd your argument
Either-Condition4586@reddit
What's wrong with that?Commies in Kremlin and that terrorists in Iran want more religion in world,so they would corrupt more people or make them terrorists
zara_anwar@reddit
You're expecting the rise of populist leaders, religion is a tool not the cause. People just want a guy who sounds good rather than do good.
Either-Condition4586@reddit
So they believe in a dead jew who said some stuff 2000 years ago after creating a cult?Very wise
zara_anwar@reddit
I never said ignorants can't vote but banning them from voting doesn't sit right either. Maybe educate people on why religious values have no place in politics
Either-Condition4586@reddit
Who said to ban vote?No nooo. Let's do better. Less info about Christianity/islam,less problems. No religion in school,in uni,in government,in military. Make church invisible, double tax them,restrict church personal, double price bible
JaySmooth_@reddit
Ah, so you're advocating against the freedom of choice. Gotcha!
Either-Condition4586@reddit
Nope, it's not banned, just invisible. Maybe in one day Christianity,islam,buddhism and etc will became something weird, foreign, almost non existent and archaic. People will not talk about it,will not care. We will see it in museums,but no one believe that humans were created from clay or whatever they wrote in bible
JaySmooth_@reddit
You're very uneducated about religion, and it shows. You don't have to believe that humans are made of clay to be religious. And failing to understand that religion is not a cause, but a tool, is just another sign of how naive you are.
Citaku357@reddit
Am not really against religion, but I do think religion should be kept private
Either-Condition4586@reddit
It's need to be far away. Very limited info about it,like really really limited in tthe net. Churches must be very small and placed where no one can see. Because after converting people in Christianity/islam, theyy start hate gays,jews and liberals
JaySmooth_@reddit
Some of you are really hilarious
Citaku357@reddit
Governments should keep religion at check
zara_anwar@reddit
Governments should keep imams at check and money flowing from abroad into Albanian and Kosovar mosques not the people practicing it
Citaku357@reddit
But that's what am trying to say. Sorry if I didn't make my point more clear
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
I don’t know what happened in Albania, but in the case of Turkey, it was fashion that made this possible.
Originally, the headscarf was a traditional covering associated with rural people. Educated women generally didn’t want to wear it. Then, inspired by Audrey Hepburn, more attractive, fashion-oriented styles of headscarves were introduced. Over the past 20–30 years, this has grown into a massive industry.
Now, it has become something that educated women no longer feel embarrassed to wear; in fact, they often see it as part of their personal style and attractiveness.
chrstianelson@reddit
Headscarves and hijab are not the same thing.
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
I didn't claim they were the same thing.
chrstianelson@reddit
Your entire argument equates headscarves with hijab.
It's not headscarves that became popular in Turkey, it's hijab. That's because it used to be banned from public buildings until AKP removed that ban.
That, plus the emboldening of the religious conservatives during AKP rule is what made hijab more visible.
Cimb0m@reddit
Lolwut 🤣
Ok-Bad-7075@reddit
Audrey Hepburn has nothing to do with hijabs and nobody sees wearing them as part of their attractiveness
atzitzi@reddit
She wore her scarf with her bikini. That was the Muslim inspiration? Lol
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
Really?
atzitzi@reddit
😆
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
thanasis87kav@reddit
She wore this and sunglasses because she probably didn't want to be recognised from a mile. Also, she could take it off without getting a black eye from her male family members
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
I never claimed that Audrey Hepburn consciously created or promoted the turban. In fashion history, influence often works independently of intent; an icon’s use of scarves can later serve as an aesthetic reference for different headwear styles in other cultures. What I’m referring to is not a “deliberate project,” but a indirect visual and stylistic influence.
atzitzi@reddit
Scarf was fashionable and still is. Difference is we were it only when cold or under sun and with our bikinis. Not like this and with that weird volume in the back of the head
atzitzi@reddit
MagistarEFUNTZ@reddit
There is a lot of reasons but Audrey Hepburn aint one
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
I guess I didn’t express myself well.
I didn’t mean that Audrey Hepburn popularized the hijab.
What I meant is that the scarves she wore inspired a reinterpretation of the traditional headscarf, evolving it into a fashion item.
atzitzi@reddit
This is a joke, because scarves were fashionable in the 50s and 60s, popular in 90s 00s but as summer beach accessories. In Islam the scarf is not a fashion accessory but uniform of a specific ideology telling that girls and women should cover their whole body, among other things.
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
I didn’t deny the opposite. Oh my God. I didn’t say your icon was a devout woman wearing a hijab. Why are you interpreting it as if I did?
All I said was that in Turkey, a woman named Şule Yüksel Şenler, inspired by Audrey Hepburn, introduced the turban as a fashion item instead of the traditional headscarf, and that today it has become a fashion accessory worldwide.
atzitzi@reddit
It's okay! Misunderstandings happen! Sometimes we answer to what we think that the other person meant.
Yes I understand that the traditional borning villagers headscarf became fashionable and trendy so Muslim women could wear it and feel better about their looks, since it is adopted world wide. It is true. Even nowadays I see modern Muslim young women wearing a hoodie instead of a scarf so they keep their cool style but stay true to their religion.
yamankara@reddit
Fashion!?
I'm sorry but this is a wildly ignorant take. So detached from reality that it's not even funny.
It is a symbol of a political (more than religious) identity which used to be banned in schools until 20 yrs ago and now is being forced generally and indirectly by the government but specifically and directly by family heads belonging to the said political identity. It used to make it harder to get a job in a public institution, now it makes it much easier compared to others. I was erroneously frowmed upon in the past, it is erroneously being forced today. But fashion hasno importance at all in this except for being a mere byproduct.
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
https://subconturkey.com.tr/islami-moda-sektoru-2020de-327-milyar-dolara-ulasacak/
yamankara@reddit
as I said, byproduct.
Ujemegaz@reddit
People know. People have needs you know. Just like they have material needs, they also have spiritual needs...
SmtIR1993@reddit
The pendulum. The ebb and flow of history.
Yto_Itinen@reddit
Alienation and insecurity of youths drives them to religion.
Defiant-Ad-8472@reddit
For other religions young people are becoming less religious, for Islam it's the opposite, why is that?
waillord_@reddit
Islam's the truth. they are simply seeing the truth and becoming more religious.
HunkyTSM@reddit
The truth is believing that a pedophile warlord addicted to sex from 7th-century Arabia is the best man who ever lived.
KingSula@reddit
Wow it’s the opposite in Turkey, I wonder why it’s like that there
Citaku357@reddit
But the demographics say otherwise though, so which is it now?
wantmywings@reddit
I think the overall number of Muslims shrank, but of those who are Muslim, more practice.
boston-matcha-party@reddit
This is true across the Muslim world. Theres many ppl turning away from religion which causes the remaining Muslims to become more religious.
zara_anwar@reddit
Right answer
Equivalent-Water-683@reddit
Well thats sad. The impression one gets is that Albania is more progressive in terms of religion.
zara_anwar@reddit
When it comes to progressive in terms of religion no country in the Balkans is close to Albania without exaggeration
Equivalent-Water-683@reddit
Sad that the trend now goes the other way :(
icancount192@reddit
One good thing Hoxha did for you
MB4050@reddit
are you not worried?
zara_anwar@reddit
Absolutely not. When it comes to religious harmony I don't think there's any country that does it better than Albania and religion itself still doesn't play a big role into the everyday lives of the average Albanian and I don't think it ever will.
vesko26@reddit
Religious harmony is not the issue, people who attend church or equivalent religious sights are much more reliable voters then the rest of us. You get into a position where they have political influence disproportional to their numbers. I don't want politicians to get into power because they are "good for the muslims" or "good for the christians".
With that said our politics are fucked up already so theres limited harm to be done
zara_anwar@reddit
You're talking about populism here but aren't all our leaders populist?
You need to create division among Albanians (Muslims vs christians vs secularists or some BS like that) to have religious populist in power but like I said religious harmony prevents that. National identy is still much much stronger in politics than religion and that is not changing.
Minodoro@reddit
I don't know about Albania, but in Romania the populist, fascist party is heavily using the countries religion, Orthodoxy as a form of getting votes. It is not so impossible for another politician to creat division between different religious groups there either. Religion should not have a place in politics at all.
zara_anwar@reddit
"religion should not have place in politics" fully agree with you.
I know who you taking about but he's in my opinion a fear mongering ahole. His main point is that (((they))) want to drag Romania into a war with Russia and it's working pretty good for him. All this while most of Romania just like Russia are Orthodox so he uses that but again that's just my two cents I ain't even Romanian.
In case of Albania there's not much to divide here politically as both main political parties are anti Russian war tbh.
Minodoro@reddit
He uses orthodoxy bc the ethnic minorities in Romania are not orthodox. It is easier to hate them if not even the religion is common.
Citaku357@reddit
Honestly you are absolutely right, everyone should be worried about the influence that religious extremism has on society because this will eventually will lead to them to influence government. Just look what is happening in America
BearishBabe42@reddit
Anyone who is willing to mix religion with politics, who want to present their religion as part of their self, is not fit to vote imo. I realise that is a controversial opinion, but religion is a lie, so why do we treat deeply religious people the way we do? In truth I am envious, I wish I could have faith and forget the horrible shit people do, but alas.
Religion, christian or muslim or buddhist, doesn't matter, should not be proudly flaunted like this. It is dangerous.
Citaku357@reddit
Until people start putting religion before nationality, then we will have big problems, and unfortunately this has already started to happen especially online, where even phrases like "feja e shqiptareve eshte shqiptaria" is bad thing for some extremists. We are heading for dangerous times.
Equivalent-Rip-1029@reddit
Tirana might be my favorite city in this respect. I was able to visit a mosque, as well as Catholic and Protestant churches, all on the same day. They are all almost side-by-side and they don't flaunt their beliefs. If it weren't for the chaotic urban development, it really could be my favorite city :)
popeto1948@reddit
Why should they be worried?
broccoli6206@reddit
Believing in Islam or any other religion is different than following religious sects/cults (religious groups that are essentially harmful to everyone) practices like women covering their hair etc. Quran doesn't tell women to cover their hair. It's something entirely different. If Albania's younger popularion has an unnatural growth of Islam, I would be worried of religious cults honestly. And that's what fucked Turkey over and over in our history. If you choose to believe a religion in your 20s for example, you would do it only for yourself. And no one would really feel a change in the society because religion is always personal at its core. But if you are imposed to it like from a cult or religious family, you will most likely forced to follow practices even if they are irrational to you and that's reflected to everyone around you. And that's what religious cults wants.
MyPlantsDieSometimes@reddit
Because a lot people don't like conservative religious people. The funny thing is that it's often conservative religious people of one religion disliking the conservative religious of another Like evangelical Christians disliking Muslims and brown people generally 🤷 personally I don't know enough about islam to have an opinion, but apparently a lot of people don't think that way
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
As a practicing Muslim myself, I tend to approach not only followers of other religions but also other Muslims with a certain degree of caution.
I have no issue whatsoever with anyone who lives their faith on an individual level. However, I generally dislike people who become involved in religious sects or organized religious groups. They are often easily influenced by the leader of the group or sect, becoming susceptible to manipulation. They shut themselves off from other perspectives and end up voting as a bloc in elections, guided by a one-sided worldview. This, in my view, makes them one of the greatest threats to the health of a democracy. If an imam or a priest claims to speak on behalf of God and influences people’s voting choices, that indicates a form of exploitation.
For a democracy to function properly, people first need to be individuals—capable of making their own decisions. The moment they delegate their decision-making authority to someone else, those choices cease to be truly democratic.
Of course, in today’s world, other threats to democracy have also emerged. For example, social media algorithms that trap people in echo chambers, feeding them only one-sided sources of information. But that is a discussion for another time.
MyPlantsDieSometimes@reddit
I suppose for a historically Muslim country to have a raise conservative practices like hijabs or burkas is similar to a rise in traditional values, anti abortion and homophobia in western historically Christian countries.or the Balkans I suppose. But that's always been a common view there. Wait... Are we more similar than different? 😂😂
EmreTaptukYunus@reddit
That’s what I assume as well. Even if the names on our labels are different, we’re all made from the same raw material.
If we feel that our “lost values” are under threat, we tend to become more conservative. If we are pressured by conservative politicians under the pretext of “our values,” we tend to become more liberal. :))
Lumpy-Valuable-8050@reddit
Haha in michigan USA you had some muslim leader openly tell people to vote for trump
popeto1948@reddit
I consider myself a conservative religious person but I'd never hate on other conservative religions as long as their followers do not harm others and/or themselves
MyPlantsDieSometimes@reddit
Ah well, you have reason then. A lot of people dont.
PerformanceGuilty908@reddit
bcs that little white man is scared of big and evil muslims
Substratas@reddit (OP)
I am.
tabulasomnia@reddit
about what? women dressing the way they want?
Lumpy-Valuable-8050@reddit
Worried about what? Albania is split in religion
poppopfizz@reddit
i was more worried when a methead followed me to my home and flashed me in italy than seeing a couple women wearing hijab.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
It is quite disturbing, ngl.
hhbhbhhhhmmmm@reddit
We are indeed worried!
TwentinQuarantino@reddit
That's very interesting, in my country the older people are more likely to be religious and conservative, while younger people are less religious. It's very unusual to see a country where it's the opposite.
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
It's actually not, it's becoming a consistent trend in most Western countries.
zara_anwar@reddit
Rural and urban for Albania, look our elderly lived under the harshest post WW2 dictatorship in Europe where religion was very strictly forbidden. it's of course understandable why they are not very attached to religion.
While the youth lives under a democratic system with freedom of expression and much information in their hands so yea that why it's different here.
hemijaimatematika1@reddit
Based.
Lord-Francis-Bacon@reddit
Why do you think this is?
Vac_65@reddit
It is a little sad that in search of identity a lot of people choose a religious identity. In the 21 century.
DanglingLiverTit@reddit
People are lost and foolish. They chose sweet lie over a bitter truth.
Modestpath99@reddit
That’s your opinion not the truth lol
DanglingLiverTit@reddit
Whatever floats you boat
Causemas@reddit
People are rediscovering "Opium of the people" in real time.
Marx didn't describe it as such because he was a cynical Reddit atheist. He truly saw religion and spirituality as giving hope to devastated people in a hopeless situation. The rise of religion (even though I don't think it's statistically significant) tells us one thing amongst others: People feel hopeless.
TheRedBaron-7@reddit
Very well written. And Marx described it as opium because religion taught devastated people to withstand hard times on Earth to have good times in the afterlife.
So I would add to your assessment that they feel A) hopeless and B) powerless to change their situation during their lifetime.
Modestpath99@reddit
That’s true but you can’t paint this as a broad brush. Not everyone is depressed or poor lol. Everyone from all walks of life has a unique and diverse journeys to their discovery to religion.
TheRedBaron-7@reddit
I mean, if applied correctly, any religion can do good to someone. I am born in the 90s, where the Salafi-Arabic takeover of the Turkish education system and the religious institutions didn't start yet. How my parents taught me religion is to focus on the essentials of Islam. Behaving respectfully towards anyone, especially the elderly, share with those who aren't as fortunate, never do any harm to anybody etc. Ofcourse as you grow older you also fast and so on. So I was pretty much shielded against any of the verses of our religion that are incompatible with our modern way of life.
I don't think it's different with 99% of the people here in this sub
Senor-Marston389@reddit
You know that “salafism” is not some synonym for “more religious than before/others”, right? I keep on seeing this self chosen buzzword being used in this thread. I don’t think that you guys even know what this word means. It’s a very distinct and marginal interpretation of Islam, almost non existent in Turkey, that refuses almost the entirety of Islamic history and intelligentsia. For someone who has even a slight idea of Islamic history and theology, the usage of this word here looks like: “look at this overly religious catholic priest! What a fkn Quaker he is!”.
TheRedBaron-7@reddit
I am not a scholar, but I have enough knowledge about our religion that I am certain that the current, dominant school of thought in the government is not the Hanafi-Maturidi one.
Erdogan himself said ‘we don’t have that much of a different view on religious things‘ when asked about the Taliban.
Vac_65@reddit
Yes, that's the base. But, at least for me, religion is not something that represents my identity. I believe that in this day and age being HUMAN does not necessarily must be linked and limited by a religion. And doing it publicly and sometimes in spite of other religions.
TheRedBaron-7@reddit
Totally, I agree with the last part. You absolutely can have these values without being religious. We are not contradicting each other.
Greedy_Constant1992@reddit
Respect the elderly and behead the infidel whites who don’t agree with your beliefs right?
GoHardLive@reddit
It is so weird to see Albanians like this. I have never seen an albanian in Greece that says they are muslim. Not even ONE. Not even on the internet. I had no idea you guys are mostly muslims until recently.
casual_philosopher02@reddit
yeah most I know even got Christian names while living here, I remember one classmate of mine got baptised and changed his name when we were like 10
Human-Painting4279@reddit
I have never understood the name change for children. What benefits does the child have? Does the state give them money?
HunkyTSM@reddit
To better fit in the culture he wants to live in?
Citaku357@reddit
Self hating Albanians with inferiority complex
atzitzi@reddit
Don't be so hard on them. In the 90s it was hard for everyone. People didn't know any better. They had in mind their life would be easier here, they would blend in better. Don't forget that we kinda do it today too. I mean when I named my kids I had in mind to give them names that can be understood in English because it is possible they will immigrate one day. I see that in r/namenerds many women who expect, say I'm Chinese I want a name that will work in US for my kid.
Now about changing religion.. I can't believe that devoted Muslims changed their religion. Probably they weren't very religious in the first place? Or simply they came from a country that had both religions and as i have seen here Christians and Muslims can coexist in the same family.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
As opposed to the ones who took the religion of the Ottomans?
Ujemegaz@reddit
It is funny you say that. Albanians became muslim befor ethe ideas of nationalism emerged in 19th century. Do you think a peasant in rural Albania knew the difference between christianity and islam? To them was just another religion with a foreign rumbling, instead of Greek, they heard the cleric speak in Arabic.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Wait, didn’t the mass conversion to Islam start happening in the 19th century?
Ujemegaz@reddit
Why do you spew random bs when you don't know what even happened in 19th century. In 16th century started but Islam spread in 17th century mostly, and ended in 18th century. In 19th century there were Tanzimat reforms which, in a way stopped the islamization, because the beys were no longer as priviledged as before, and even revolted against the Sultan.
Citaku357@reddit
I mean as long as they don't put religion before their nationality, also I wasn't talking about religion i was talking about name changing that Albanians in Greece are doing.
casual_philosopher02@reddit
Ι don't either! Out of all names he chose Giannis too.....
Substratas@reddit (OP)
It’s not uncommon tbh. Many Albanians in Greece did change their names to Greek to avoid discrimination.
Lothronion@reddit
It is not so much about that, it is often an issue of many Albanian names being difficult to be pronounced for Greeks, or when speaking Greek, hence it is often an adaptation like that of East Asians adopting a Western name. For example, an Albanian family friend is called "Lendina", but when she arrived in the 1990s she constantly had to explain that it is not "Leonidas", so she simply goes by with "Nina" (which is not Greek, but at least it is easier). In this case, it is mainly an issue of accessibility.
Ujemegaz@reddit
The change of names was enforced by authorities. Even secular names were not seen findly in Greece.
Lothronion@reddit
What on earth is a "secular name" by Greek standards?!
Ujemegaz@reddit
You tell me. Why Ilir was changed to Ilia.
Lothronion@reddit
You spoke of "secular" names. That term makes me think of Ancient Greek names that somehow do not happen to have a Saint and a Feast Day, since some were too obscure in later times for that to happen (or ones after deities, because you would never have an Ancient Greek walking around with the name Poseidon).
A conversion of "Ilir" to "Elias" is not a matter of rejection of secularism, it is one of being able to use the name in a different language, so that the other person can pronounce it smoothly while speaking, and even also detect it while hearing it (e.g. "Ilir" sounds like how a Greek would say "the lyre", and thus is bound to confuse people). And it is not rejection of secularism because "Ilir" in Greek is the name "Illyrios", and the Orthodox Church does recognize Saints with this name, like Saint Illyrios / Illyrikos of Myrsinonos, who lived in the Peloponnese.
Now an Albanian named "Ilir" might prefer to change his name to "Elias" as opposed to "Illyrios" since "Elias" is a much more common name in Greek, as well as far simpler to use and almost sounds like his original name, something close to Saul / Savlos of Tarsus using the Greco-Roman name of "Pavlos" so that he fit in. Especially given that "Illyrios" would be very strange, given how it sounds very antiquated and bizarre (as if someone's name was "Hittite" or "Assyrian").
Ujemegaz@reddit
Yeah, bizarre indeed. We both know why Ilir is not preferred in Greece though. When hou say too much, it only sounds like a load of bs. Although i understand why muslim names were changed, even though they were rare in the 1990s due to communist practices, but the bigger picture was thag Greece was trying to integrate them and erase anything possible that linked them to Albania, which is not to be critusized, afterall they came in Greece for economic reasons, and if they stayed, they should become one with the host country. Just be frank, that is all.
Lothronion@reddit
You can delve into conspiracies as much as you want, but I am not obligated to entertain in them as well for your sake. The case is simple, the name "Ilir" does not mean anything in Greek, and if told to a Greek while speaking in Greek they will just fail to notice it and their mind will think about other possible words, like the one I described above, about how "Ilir" sounds like "he lyra" (the lyre).
An Albanian in Greece insisting that while speaking Greek they should be named as such, without even wanting to conform to the language's phonemes, say, by adding a Greek suffic and intonation, like turning "Ilir" to "Iliros", is just like an obnoxious Greek in Britain who insists that everyone should call him "Alexandros" and not "Alexander".
What a thing to say. So you came to a discussion forum to complain when others engage in a discussion with you.
Is this why there have been Muslim politicians in the Greek Parliament, while using very Muslim names, such as "Moustafa Moustafa" (and this was in the 1990s, when the Albanian immigrants came over)???
When you tell that to someone who disagrees with you, you are basically asking them to lie for the sake of conforming to your opinions. As such, it has nothing to do with veracity.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Because Moustafa you are referrjng to is probably a Turk, and they have a state like a guardian of every trivial aspect of their interest. Unlike ours.
Lothronion@reddit
Excuses. It is just that "Moustafa" as a name is far more well known to the average Greek, while as a sound it flows well in the Greek language, following the standard of triple syllables and the emphasis in them being usually in the last syllable. The only way you can integrate it even more in the Greek language is if you added an “-s” at the end, so it conforms to the masculine suffix of “-as”, but actually if you did that many Greeks would be confused, as “Moustafa” is so well known as a name that “Moustafas” sounds weird.
If Turkey has anything to do with the issue, it is about how the average Greek is far more exposed to Turkish names as opposed to Albanian ones. In this manner, cases like “Mustafa”, “Mehmet” and “Ahmet” are detectable as names when speaking Greek. In other cases, it is harder, and it is just a matter of exposition to them. In this manner, while a Turk will be fine with the aforementioned names, if they are called “Altug”, “Aydogan”, “Cagdas”, “Ercument”, “Ergin” for instance they would be having a harder time.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
The reason why Greeks & Italians are often so oblivious about Albania being ”muslim” is because the Albanian immigrants who moved to those countries were from Albania, and people from Albania are generally very secular.
When I moved to Sweden, everybody who ”knew about Albanians” instantly assumed I was muslim once I told them I’m Albanian because they had mostly been in contact with Albanians from Kosovo (more than 90% of Albanians here are from Kosovo).
PS: I just found out in the comments rn that that TV presenter from threads is actually in Kosovo, so worldhijabday is spreading fake news.
Glittery_Marshmallow@reddit
Secularism is not the reason. They are mostly Christians, that's why. In Greece at least. And they are not more or less secular on average than an average Greek.
atzitzi@reddit
As a kid I was told that Albanians are atheists and I thought what! How progressed is this! OK probably the person told me that meant there is no one religion there.
Modestpath99@reddit
One of the greatest scholar of Islam was an Albanian
atzitzi@reddit
If i remember well, it was on the news last year, that Albania is no longer a Muslim majority country
GoHardLive@reddit
Still look at this. Albanians in Greece are nothing like this.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Because Albanians in Greece come mostly from southern regions. Even muslims were largely Bektashi and had no mosques, but tekke. Even nowadays, the sight of mosques is rare in southern Albania.
atzitzi@reddit
Of course not.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Well, everyone keeps saying we are muslim. Why not truly become muslims.
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
I have the contrary experience. Met a metric ton of Albanians irl. Not once were they non-muslim (and yes I am aware that a huge portion of the population is not).
vivaervis@reddit
Depends from where they were.
PurpleDrax@reddit
I had the completely opposite experience. Albanians in Macedonia are hardcore muslims, the suprised look on my face when i went to Tirana for the first time was funny
Elmalukat@reddit
The thing is that in Albania religious people went from lets say 2% to 5%.
So that is an increase that people living there would notice.
Also hijab started to become more visible on media too.
Albanians in North Macedonia are on another level
Substratas@reddit (OP)
The contrast is wild.
Faust29A@reddit
🤦♂️
Human-Painting4279@reddit
I find it weird too, I like to think they are just being represented in the media and not increased in numbers
Substratas@reddit (OP)
The reason why Greeks & Italians are often so oblivious about Albania being ”muslim” is because the Albanian immigrants who moved to those countries were from Albania, and people from Albania are generally very secular.
When I moved to Sweden, everybody who ”knew about Albanians” instantly assumed I was muslim once I told them I’m Albanian because they had mostly been in contact with Albanians from Kosovo (more than 90% of Albanians here are from Kosovo).
Gizsm0@reddit
Record numbers of muslims in Albania leave Islam
Radusteel13@reddit
Yes but at the same time the muslims that stay become more and more "religious"(i'm not saying its necessary a bad thing but those "religious"people try to promote their religion and shi on everyone who isnt a "true" muslim but they do every sin in the book (drink,smoke,and have 20+ body counts(both genders)so atleast if you are religious atleast try to respect the rules of that specific religion(atleast after you did the conversion)
LoveIsStrength@reddit
She’s not
Dear_Wrongdoer7271@reddit
There needs to be a huge reform in that aspect. I ve seen little girls in hijabs in Shkoder. Even Tajikistan has forbidden mosques to do the prayers and the muftis are appointed by the state and there are specific teachings in them. Parents should not be allowed to dress up little girls like this.
PerformanceGuilty908@reddit
when i was 8 i used to love to west anhijab. i’m now 24 and dont wear one, but it make me so mad when people see little kids with a hijab and think, that they are being forcier to wear one
FrothyEspresso@reddit
What else are people going to think? Kids are, by definition, not adults and incapable of taking all decisions on their own. They don’t have full responsibility for themselves.
Kids don’t want to go to school but are forced by society and parents. Kids don’t want to brush their teeth but are forced to do so by their parents. Kids don’t want to clean up their bedrooms but are forced to do so by their parents.
So of course we will think the hijab is not a choice.
PerformanceGuilty908@reddit
kids want to wear a dress and they will wear one. kids want a barbie and they will get one. kids want to wear a hijab and they will wear one. the kid has still the right to voice their wishes, the parent only decides of that wish is acceptable or not acceptable
Apart-Persimmon-38@reddit
Will you buy a Barbie to your 7 year old son to play with it? See the point?
tabulasomnia@reddit
if he asks for it and it will make him happy, why not?
Apart-Persimmon-38@reddit
Sure, when you get into that position you will question yourself. And you might not do it
tabulasomnia@reddit
why wouldn't I do it?
Apart-Persimmon-38@reddit
Cause kids will literally torture your son for playing with dolls.
tabulasomnia@reddit
yes, we should teach our children to cave to social pressure
PerformanceGuilty908@reddit
if he asks for it then yes
Apart-Persimmon-38@reddit
I sense bs
PerformanceGuilty908@reddit
i sense a toxic mindset
Apart-Persimmon-38@reddit
Or below i cant keep track
Apart-Persimmon-38@reddit
Read the comment above. You are missing the point and i can sense that none of you are parents.
Instinctual_Spirit@reddit
It's hilarious you feel threatened by a barbie doll.
Apart-Persimmon-38@reddit
You are missing a point here. You will not simply award every single whim your kid has. You will judge is this something which is good for your kid or not. You will wage everything multiple times over and over again. Then you will make a decision if this will somehow benefit your kid.
The point is - your son starts playing with dolls and every single kid will make fun of him and harras him and make your kid feel like shit. Kids are so fucking mean you have no idea. You will make decisions which are against your kids wishes if that means that long term its better for his mental health and him/her growing up.
Same goes for the hijab.
FrothyEspresso@reddit
Again, kids can say whatever they want but they cannot make the final decision - hence why everyone will think the parents are responsible.
You’re not going to wear princess dresses or dinosaur costumes to school, no matter how much you “wish” to do so as an 8 year old. Especially if you’re in an Asian country with uniforms or attending some school with a dress code.
Even in highly liberal societies most parents won’t allow it on a daily basis.
Kids are not just influenced by their parents.
Parents exert control over kids.
tabulasomnia@reddit
is there any version of reality where this isn't true?
parents raise the children and in the process instill them their values, their culture etc. there is nothing wrong with that.
after a point the child starts making their own choices. a free and open society will facilitate young people breaking away from their parent's teachings, if they want, without any repercussions. but that's about it.
PerformanceGuilty908@reddit
dude idk it seems like you had a pretty traumatic childhood, i was allowed to do whatever i want lol
maxledaron@reddit
I feel worried when I see a 4 year old girl dressed as Elsa from Frozen, do they plan to freeze people in the nearby future?
FrothyEspresso@reddit
I’d be worried if she does become a Disney Adult.
maxledaron@reddit
😭
DanglingLiverTit@reddit
🤣🤣🤣
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
What do you mean forced? You just said you loved to wear one when you were a kid. What you're actually saying is that now you're edgy and old and hate your younger self and the tradition you came out of and are projecting your feelings onto young children.
PerformanceGuilty908@reddit
what the fuck are you even talking about, i’m still muslim and i love my younger hijabi self, even though i only wore it on the weekends
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
Then why are you saying they're forced to wear one? Have you asked them if they feel forced? You just said you loved it. Or are you saying you can be forced to do something you love?
PerformanceGuilty908@reddit
dude read my original commerce really slow
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
I did. There's absolutely nothing in what I restated that's a dishonest representation. You said you loved to wear the hijab and don't do it anymore, then said you hate it when kids are forced to wear one. Again, how do you know anyone is being forced?
I'm not sure why you're pretending to be too stupid to understand a simple question, or why you're insinuating I misunderstood your original statement. It's noteworthy that instead of actually clarifying what you might've meant, you're just vagueposting about how I misunderstood it (when I didn't). Stop being so pathetic.
PerformanceGuilty908@reddit
i said that i hate it when OTHER PEOPLE SAY that kids are forced to wear a hijab 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
Ohhhh, I see. My bad.
MagistarEFUNTZ@reddit
What about miniskirts and bikinis for children?
LaurestineHUN@reddit
If the sight of a kid in a bikini bothers you, it's a you problem, and a quite big one of that.
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
What a dishonest reply.
MagistarEFUNTZ@reddit
So you like it a lot ?
smokingRooster_@reddit
“Liking it” and not having an issue with are two very different things my friend
MagistarEFUNTZ@reddit
So you dont hace problem seeing kids barely covered but you have when they are fully covered l.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Well, we can't teach people how to educate their own kids. If you want policies like in Tajikistan, maybe we should have kept communism. You can't have both freedom and restrictions. People are free to choose thier faith.
Ok-Computer-5415@reddit
I never got why hijab on little girls is such a issue. Who cares? Like kids always have free will on everything when she is 18 she can get out of house and take it off. Its not even a long thing
Citaku357@reddit
Because it isn't their choice, it's like forcing little girls to not wear pants
Ok-Computer-5415@reddit
İt can also be perceived forcing children to wear pants. İn their soical code its necessary
gattare234@reddit
First of all women, especially coming from conservative muslim households, most of the time do not the free will nor resources to leave home at 18 and do whatever they like. Second, once you start wearing headscarf as a child, it can be a bigger barrier the concept of taking it off due to stigma in social circles. (Like coming out) Third, secular liberal perspective to wearing headscarf is that, women should they decide when they are adults (18) if they wanna practice religion and wear headscarf, so that it is consentual and not religious indoctorination. Liberal secular approach prioritizes Western style nationalist capitalist education and individualism.
Ok-Computer-5415@reddit
Well first of all why are we using west based parametres for a eastern religion and they living in west doesn’t change that they should have right to practice it as they see it fit. And you are bringing children to church and doesn’t most nun schools take children earlier then adulthood and muslim parents doesn’t send their daughters to college is a western bias that doesn’t cover truth. Especially eu and us muslims are sending their daughters to colleges and ı m not saying this from outside I live in middle east my father is a "serious" Sufi sheykh who has like few thousand followers and he sent his daughter to college as did his students. Capitalism grew higher then both İslam and Christianity and no religion can opress anyone unless its like Afghanistan close to big world
popeto1948@reddit
I think the situation in Tajikistan is quite different
Citaku357@reddit
Yeah they had a civil war about this
tabulasomnia@reddit
the reformist view is "let people wear whatever they want". your comment is not reformist, it's regressive.
Significant_Judge008@reddit
That’s not a little girl on the screen
exhiale@reddit
Yes. It was virtually nonexistant 20 years ago. Still a very small number though. I guess the resurgence is coming through all these social media religious types on both sides.
kthanx@reddit
What causes the increase? Money from the Gulf?
arisaurusrex@reddit
Maybe she will switch to Zjarr TV
lyrics85@reddit
The way I see it, the number of muslim believers has decreased in Albania.
But the number of fundamentalists has increased. And there's growing animosity toward them, especially after they began attacking Albanian identity.
However, it's clear that a good chunk of the believers are ignorant about Islam. They know a few things from what they've seen on social media, but they have never read the Quran, and they know nothing about the history of religion. But if you ask them, they'll tell you that they are muslims and that they go to the Mosque on Friday every now and then.
Modestpath99@reddit
Why are the fundamentalists increasing you think?
Substratas@reddit (OP)
THIS!!! This is exactly what is happening.
Burtocu@reddit
yeah it increased, not just in foreigners, but romanian women too, as they usually marry muslim men, so you see a bunch of them with hijabs, but they're not the majority yet
N0stalgiaNightz@reddit
What Muslim men are they marrying? Turks?
Burtocu@reddit
sometimes yes, but it's mostly arabs from Syria or the surroundings
N0stalgiaNightz@reddit
In Romania?! Thought that was more of a German/ UK/ Italian thing...
Burtocu@reddit
bro, we are not a backwards country where nobody wants to move to, especially not in the big cities like Bucharest, Cluj, Timisoara, Oradea and so on. Arabs have been coming here for more than 20 years at this point. We are not on the same level as Germany or UK but still
N0stalgiaNightz@reddit
What? I never said you were a backwards country i like Romania alot. But it's accommodating to Muslims in the same way German , UK etc are.
Outrageous_Break_739@reddit
it has increased in turkey in the past 2 decades but that has to do with the gov and some laws
Electrical_Shop_7635@reddit
No EU for Albanien
IfICode@reddit
Why? These people make up less than 100 people out of over 2 million in albania, this is being brought up because it’s rare, not because it’s common
Electrical_Shop_7635@reddit
Talking abaut muslim
IfICode@reddit
But….only 50% of albania is muslim? And 90% of those muslims are secular….
PasicT@reddit
It has increased and I'm fine with that.
Western-Pear5874@reddit
Fuck all religions, especially islam.
Character_Hamster890@reddit
Shame.
Galatasaray5561@reddit
Shame olan sensin seni gidi çakma Türk
Character_Hamster890@reddit
Dinci galatalı da gelmiş, salıyım da boynuna dola.
iddivision@reddit
Y*hudi misin amk?
Character_Hamster890@reddit
Ağrına gittiyse reşit olmamış kuzeninle evlenip smalı arap doğur.
iddivision@reddit
Böyle bir şey mi?
Character_Hamster890@reddit
Bana ne onlardan, spastik köylü 😆ülkedeki belgelenmiş geçmişim senin Çorum’da sıtmadan telef olan akrabalarının aksine II. Bayezid dönemine dayanıyor. Gerçi sen ulus devlet de bilmezsin ki, hayvansal gıda tüket aşağılık fakir.
Galatasaray5561@reddit
Ben dolatmam, düpedüz yuttururum sana rum dölü.
Character_Hamster890@reddit
Sen git kendi gibilerinin olduğu sublarda aileni şeyhlere pazarla 😆😆 burası senin neyine ölü balık gözlü çarıklı 😆
FuckTheCake@reddit
worrying trend but I like women with hijabs
Common_Source_9@reddit
The truly worrying part is it has increased in western Europe.
Both_Sheepherder_791@reddit
People can do whatever they want if they are not forced under anything.
rydolf_shabe@reddit
Its not like they are forced all of the time, but if they are raised from childhood to be obidient and wear hijabs, is it really free will? Sometimes I see little girls in Albania wearing them, which, knowing the context of how its used, seems very fucked up.
Ujemegaz@reddit
After 18, once they are financially indipendent, they will have free will. The problem is the living and economical standard, not religion.
Both_Sheepherder_791@reddit
You are right about your opinions but I think anyone over 18 can have free will. And the little girls thing, yeah it looks sad but its their religion. Just like Christianity,Judaism etc. I am saying this as an ex atheist
colola8@reddit
Every where in the world is getting more and more conservative. Seems this the trends now religion is trendy . With that said i women should have rights to wear or not to wear whatever they want and should be a problem to work or affect their future.
Any-Photo9699@reddit
It's crazy how many people think women should be free to what they want, and therefore they should be banned from wearing hijabs. Like, not talking about family pressure or anything. Just outright a ban for everyone.
atzitzi@reddit
Yeah I mean can they wear a nazi uniform too?
Any-Photo9699@reddit
Bro 😭😭😭
Intelectualu@reddit
exactly
Fun_Law_6148@reddit
larp Larp sahur
Miabreshla@reddit
We are not Arabs 🤢
Ujemegaz@reddit
Not now, but in foreseable future we might.
BarnaclePotential132@reddit
Social media sure but "finding" regligion is usually a indication for social problems (poverty). Poor ppl are a easy target for religious groups.
Univer001@reddit
Unfortunately yes.
IfICode@reddit
u/substratas
I apologize for what I said earlier, I have mixxed you up with a completely different user and I am ashamed.
I have deleted all my comments
TechnicianTimely2879@reddit
It’s decreasing in Turkey. But because of the migrations from the east of Turkey to the west it feels like it’s increasing.
ZakkBoiSama@reddit
For our fellow Albanians, do not ever let those islamist bastards involve into your politics. They will say that they are just a minority and would like to have some rights and then bam! you see them in streets shouting for sharia. You will regret it so much if you evet let them have what they want
Commercial_Handle418@reddit
This
Sigh if only you had told turkiye earlier
Then again erdogan concealed his intentions
ZakkBoiSama@reddit
That fcking dictator.. i swear we will celebrate it for days if not weeks once the regime falls
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Live-Role7096@reddit
She is beautiful 🌺🌸
RedditStrider@reddit
Unfortunately yes, they have especially in younger generations. When I was in highschool, there wasnt a single girl with headscarf. Nowadays you can see them put on women as early as middle-school.
dominus_23@reddit
I thought Albania was going forward...
Ujemegaz@reddit
Maybe Islam is the way forward. We tried everything else.
lolzimcoolwow@reddit
It is going forward. This is fake news,this news presenter is from Kosovo and there ,there is indeed a “problem” with islam from what i hear
dominus_23@reddit
Nice to hear that is fake news...thank you for clarifying it.
backhand_english@reddit
From tits out on the news, to hijab... You know there is a middle ground, people of Albania?
hemijaimatematika1@reddit
Hijabis over OF girls any day.
Nature is healing.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
The false dilemma king.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Well, he scaled two extremes.
hemijaimatematika1@reddit
Not really.
Rejnu@reddit
Tbf I know so many Hijab wearing Girls with a Higher Body Count than their age
hemijaimatematika1@reddit
Google ''subjective evidence''
wegwerpacc123@reddit
When you think about it, our natural state is being naked.
Alert_Conflict6522@reddit
I wish man. They use external symbols to bamboozle us. A lady that wears a hijab and was super religious turned out to have a number count that if i told you, make your head spin. But she turned to god and was devote to "me". Hopefully, luck serves you better than it did me.
driftstyle28@reddit
Am I the only one who is concerned about the rise of religion, conservativism etc.? It's usually a good indicator that bad stuff is about to happen in the world.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
I feel the same way & you are 110% right.
driftstyle28@reddit
I felt shocked, this Easter even my not so religious cousins were like "DON'T QUESTION MY FAITH". What the f*ck kind of twisted religious dogma are they feeding them? Can we not just be secular in 2026?
Tankette55@reddit
Scary times. Even the albanian guy who renovated our house in italy told us his brother back home was a good painter, but he had gone insane because of religion and wanted a 'submissive wife'.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Adventurous_Weight78@reddit
Why does everyone sound offended by what these women wear? You would prefer them going in the other direction, more naked?
Of course religion, especially Islam is growing. If you cannot see why, you have been living under the rock for the past 3 years.
Basically everything we have been taught about Islam was propaganda, and the truth about western colonialism has been pushed under the rug. The world has seen in the example of Palestine what the real truth is, and who the oppressors and terrorists really are.
Do some honest research, into religion, history, science, and try to let go of the lies that the Epstein elite has been spitting out for the past 100 years.
vulpixvulpes@reddit
I have never seen any headscarves in my hometown in Transylvania. But living in Bucharest, there are certain neighborhoods where there are a LOT of Arab immigrants and seeing hijabi women there is very common.
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
Well, that should just be illegal.
vulpixvulpes@reddit
Meh, I don't agree. It's just clothing, it's not vulgar or anything, and it doesn't cover the face. It just has religious meaning to the person wearing it. I like to wear a scarf over my hair in summer (not a fan of hats but I hate the sun on my head) - would that also become illegal?
GimiderKing@reddit
The problem is you have these days two kinds of people among the albanians and the Balkan people in general: the extrem western ones who only live for hedonism and think everything the west does is absolutely perfect and can‘t be questioned. These are people who have no real morals. They only live for partying and sex and have really ruined the youth and society. On the other hand you have these religous morons who often are really not that educated. They have no opinion of their own. They only care about what the quran or bible says. They are too dumb to question anything and i fear that if they are not kept in check they will ruin the youth and society too.
MiserableTennis6546@reddit
The Saudis are pouring billions into exporting their strict wahabi state religion. Probably related to that.
Haferflocke2020@reddit
I'm from bosnia and I went to medicine middle school from 2002 to 2006. We had 25 muslim girls in the class and only one wore a hijab. All the other girls were wearing normal clothes.
visualpanic00@reddit
Are you bothered? It seems so. Aren't you among those who say "we are civilized and respectful"? Then why don't you show respect when it comes to Muslims?
Any_Table9811@reddit
I think a strengthening of puritanic Islam has been a recurring thing since the golden age of Islam. Countries that have Islam and seem cosmopolitan - when they feel that they get threatened either militarily or culturally and they revert back to a puritanical Islam which they think is the “original Islam”. This is the usual religious response to uncertainty of history. It’s the “myth of eternal return”. Which is also anachronistic because the early Islamic state like Medina was pluralistic, not that fanatic as far as I know.
This phenomenon also happened to Christianity several times. Reformation, puritans, evangelicals.
EvanTheGray@reddit
Probably not the geographic segment you'd be looking for, but in far East Russia lately I've began to notice covered up women, first time in several decades
Miserable-Ground-379@reddit
In Slovenia increased as rapidly increased the number of immigrants from Kosovo & Albania
vivaervis@reddit
Never heard an Albanian from Albania moving to Slovenia tbh. Italy, Greece or Germany? Sure
Ujemegaz@reddit
Idk about Kosovo, but from Albania i doubt anyone would go in a Slavic country. We don't know the language.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Immigrants FROM ALBANIA wearing hijab in Slovenia?!?!
MinaretofJam@reddit
Seen more in Albania over the last couple of years and mostly younger women. Sarajevo is full of niqabis and was genuinely surprised. Worked there during and after the war. Then realised where all the investment money has come from: Saudi, the Gulf, China. It’s definitely a social media phenomenon.
faramaobscena@reddit
I hate hijabs, it’s just hair, stop with the religious opression! We have women’s rights in Europe.
FuelTheRadiance@reddit
You realize most of them wear it by choice. And the women's rights you're clamoring for are exactly what enables them to do this in non-Muslim countries as well. If it's a women's rights issue, then they can wear whatever they want. Only as you frame it as a cultural and national issue can you get rid of it.
Cheap_Grocery8634@reddit
It’s wild how fast that’s shifted—especially since we grew up in a time when religious symbols were almost totally absent from public life. Feels like a mix of global influence and younger people reclaiming identity, even if it’s still a tiny minority overall.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Ikr??? I was born in 92, lived in Albania until I was done with high school - never saw anything like this during my time there, like, ever.
PlayfulMountain6@reddit
It is not true at all! Personal observation isn’t data. The only measurable source is the census and it shows the opposite of what you’re claiming. Muslims in Albania dropped to 45% in 2023. What you’re noticing is anecdotal, not statistical
Substratas@reddit (OP)
December 2024. You clearly see the the growth of Islam in younger people. So no, it’s not anecdotal.
Source
PlayfulMountain6@reddit
Totally anectodal. That’s not how statistics work. In Albania, the only nationally valid, comparable source is the INSTAT census.
Successful_Week9211@reddit
Im sorry for Albania and secularism
tejanaqkilica@reddit
Social media for you. Stupid people + propaganda + social media, is a match made in heaven.
Playful-Falcon-6243@reddit
Ne qe ndjekim fene jemi budallenj vetem ju jeni te zgjuar se nuk bini pre e “propagandes”.
tejanaqkilica@reddit
Me disa plus minuse, po pak a shumë ajo është idea.
Citaku357@reddit
We should be like China, create state owned social media
d2mensions@reddit
TIL there has never been a hijabi TV presenter in Albania untill her
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Just found out that they’re spreading fake news, she’s from Kosovo.
Citaku357@reddit
What does it matter? We are all Albanians in the end
Substratas@reddit (OP)
We are all Albanians indeed, but Kosovo and Albania are two different countries. That’s why it matters.
Citaku357@reddit
Why does it matter for you?
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Because it says ”on Albanian television” to mislead people into believing it’s in Albania, which is false:
CostinTea@reddit
This is a Tëvë1 presenter; it's a Kosovan TV station.
wantmywings@reddit
Kosovar*
labubufxgg0t@reddit
in turkey it increased for a brief period but now is dropping again
balbuljata@reddit
Could it be a reaction to the oppression under Hoxha? The same thing often happens amongst 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants. They tend to start rediscovering their roots. Same thing may be happening here.
sahinbey52@reddit
Islam is a great slave religion, you can force people into slavery by making them patient and thankful, since all the religion is to thank God no matter what, and nobody can be against it because it is a "religion of peace" lol. So, if you are a leader, and if you want your people to not question you, force them into Islam. You will get as much force as you can.
IfICode@reddit
The mods here removed my comment for ” no agenda pushing ” because I exposed OP who is a jihadist for pushing an agenda???
What the fuck??
Substratas@reddit (OP)
https://i.redd.it/p08rq6n3owwg1.gif
4zzrq@reddit
as a turkush hijabi myself, i don't care who's hijabi or not. as long as nobody forces a religion in anyone, it's harmless.
N0stalgiaNightz@reddit
Weird seeing kids in it though.
4zzrq@reddit
probably families forcing it, islam doesn't wants any girl to wear it before puberty. it's weird and bad
N0stalgiaNightz@reddit
Probably the German/ UK influence.
Amadeus_t@reddit
Yes. Sadly. 20 years ago it was non-existent...
OptimusTron222@reddit
I am deleting this tv station for good, did not see this but don’t want underage relatives to see this crap
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Found out in the comment section that the channel is not even Albanian. Worldhijabiday was spreading fake news.
OptimusTron222@reddit
Good to hear that
Ujemegaz@reddit
Kinky
IfICode@reddit
So this user is a pro-muslim albanian freak, I know because we both live in sweden
i argued against him about this a week ago which is why he made this post crying over this, his goal is to make it seem like hardcore islam is normalized in albania
Substratas@reddit (OP)
You know I’m a pro-muslim freak because we both live in Sweden?
Bot?
IfICode@reddit
Snälla din jävla pajas, du har försökt pusha Islam i Albanien i flera veckor nu. Skäms du inte? Sitter och pratar som att det är Afghanistan när där är typ 100 kvinnor med slöja i hela landet.
You are fucking disgusting, you know exactly what you’re diing
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule 1 of r/AskBalkans "Keep it civil". Depending on the severity of this violation, you may be banned.
If not, try to refrain from using this type of language.
Lively discussion is alright, but personal attacks, insults, hate, chauvinism and/or bigotry towards other users or their input will not be tolerated.
Cheers.
IfICode@reddit
Why do you allow jihadist bots to try and influence us then remove my comment for calling him disgusting?
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule 3 of r/AskBalkans "No agenda pushing". We want this subreddit to be an inclusive space and no chauvinism, bigotry or insults towards national, ethnic, religious etc. group will be tolerated. Depending on the severity of this violation, you may be banned.
In any case, refrain from posting or commenting in such a manner.
Vissi001@reddit
I believe most of these people are getting payed to do so. We had kind of the same situation in the far south where albanians acted like greek to get a monthly allowance from greek authorities.
I don't know why they do this but its been happening for years now.
Actual_Aside_2862@reddit
Let the women be free and use whatever she want.
Elmalukat@reddit
The topic is interesting but the photo is misleading since she is from Kosovo it seems.
Maybe open the topic with a photo of hatii or someone else
Substratas@reddit (OP)
I found out in the comment section. Worldhijabiday really needs to get their account banned for spreading fake news.
ZapruderFilmBuff@reddit
Yes. 99% of them are Albanian and Kosovo immigrants.
SnooSuggestions4926@reddit
Its crazy to me that some albanians are so down bad at moving somewhere that they are moving to countries like Slovenia and Croatia. For what? 3-400 euros more? I dont get how thats worth it and honestly they should rather stay and make it work in their own countries.
HantoKawamura@reddit
Some moved to freaking Northern Macedonia, selling funny red t-shirts with eagle and word "Autochthon" at Skopje bazaar 💀
RijnBrugge@reddit
Slovenia is a better place than Italy and y‘all also out there
SnooSuggestions4926@reddit
That also i dont agree with
thatMrGecko@reddit
overall religiousness is in decline, but compared to 20+ years ago a lot more women with headscarves take active part in society now, which imo is a net positive
gauragaura7@reddit
why?
thatMrGecko@reddit
you'd prefer women stay home and isolated from society?
gauragaura7@reddit
I'd prefer that we all live in civilised societies where archaic and outdated concepts with no real basis are a thing of the past
monkeysultan@reddit
Its a touchy subject.. I see your point, and had the exact same opinion with you a few years ago, but social change is gradual.
Feminist Turkish seculars, with what I will call "forced emancipation" completely failed women from conservative backgrounds. No matter the agency of the woman, as in, if they wanted a secular or Muslim lifestyle were essentially barred from public life, including even attending university. You wear a headscarf? We dont care, be it your freedom of conscience or necessity due to your backward household, you are to feel shame! See the problem here? The headscarf issue rolled around and around, becoming a huge point of contention in the early 2000s. Seculars and conservatives hardly interacted with one another, suspicion and even putrid hatred rose especually from the conservatives. "Solving" this was one of AKP's early political triumphs, which is partly why there is a massive obsession over them among conservatives.
Wouldnt you agree that recognizing AND reinforcing the freedom of conscience of women is a better alternative than forcefully projecting the state's own vision of modernity on women? Unfortunately the "forced emancipation" of Turkish secular politics failed many women, and perpetuated generational trauma of victimization. Once again this is one of the reasons why many consercatives are extrenely suspicious of the secular opposition.
Absolute shitshow. Lengthy but worth the read if one is ibterested in this particular episode of secularism in Turkey.
thatMrGecko@reddit
so do I. which is why I don't support telling women how to dress. they can walk around in a bikini if they want, or a hijab if they want.
Proud-Ad-5206@reddit
No, but the number of "alpha" incels concerned with racial and religious purity and declining demography is. At least on reddit 🤣
Natopor@reddit
Wait till you go on twitter.
Proud-Ad-5206@reddit
I gave up on the blue bird soon after eLoan Muskovych bought it.
Natopor@reddit
Wise choice
P-l-Staker@reddit
Spoken like a true beta! /s
Intelectualu@reddit
the same is on tiktok and instagram, there is nothing alpha about them since they usually have subpar IQ, lack proper hygiene and are ugly, on top of their repulsive personalities
Sufficient_Eye5804@reddit
Let women dress however they want.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
Fine as long as they don't carry katanas.
Decent_Blacksmith_@reddit
I just really dislike this. I hate the purity = good women narrative. A woman needs to be modest and if she’s not modest she’s naked, the origin of hijab is to prevent sexual abuse from men written in the Quran, there are laws that prevent this and don’t blame it in woman anymore. But apparently men cannot stop obsessing over women wearing it or not wearing it.
Silent_Fee5862@reddit
Same has happened in France
One_more_drink_@reddit
One morning a few years ago while taking a walk, in my city, I saw a woman who looked middle eastern with a long headscarve. Now imagine that this city is in the poor-angry-redneck-drunk-driving-beat-the-wife-and-the-kid-every-week-going-to-church-hating-anything-that's-not-conservative Christian part of Romania, it must have been strange for her to just watch every single person staring at her.
SwimmingHelicopter15@reddit
I have seen it only from middle east immigrants. Muslim women from South Asia don't wear it and neither local muslim women.
I come from a region where there are a lot of muslim and were shocked when some immigrants put hijab on their little girls. For tatars and turks in the region covering the hair was mostly for married women.
NecessaryDisaster498@reddit
Isnt this normal, considering that communism was inherently anti-religious? We live in a much more connected world and people are not limited to state media and local public opinion. People that would have been religious and not shown it, are publically showing it.
Similarly you would have seen much more "open women" until the late 2000s, because the state was banning people with headscarf to enter public buildings such as universities. The ban lifted and suddenly you got an increase of veiled women, which likely encouraged more to do so.
Fragrant-Field-2017@reddit
I wonder if the sultan is pushing his religious leader agenda in Albania as he is pushing in Northern Greece....
Nissan_Sunny_GTi_R@reddit
💖💖💖
DismalManagement3808@reddit
Well if you have 0 religion is communist albania it can only go one way ?
krsCarrots@reddit
Not sure about albania but to me there’s a clear distinction between the muslim Turks and the ones from the middle east it is like a different religion. In bulgaria there are a lot of turks but nobody striking you as being any different than any regular citizen. Where the hijab insisting guys are defo next level
thatMrGecko@reddit
while there are other factors this has to do with the sect/denomination of islam these populations belong to. beyond the giant divide that is sunni/shia, there are subdenominations. most turkish muslims (whether the know or not) are hanafi sunni, which is basically the most progressive version of islam there is.
TheRedBaron-7@reddit
What is funny is that what makes us distinct is not only that we are Hanafi (because some Arabs also are Hanafi) but that we are following the teachings of Imam Maturidi. Only Turks, Turkic nations and other Central and South Asian people apply his teachings.
The funny part is, very few know the difference of the subdenominations and even fewer know the existence of the Maturidi teaching. And Maturidism is even more progressive and rationalist. For anyone who wants to know, the English Wikipedia article is a quite short and nice read.
gauragaura7@reddit
sad
Diligent_Breath_643@reddit
Its haram to not cover your hair,but to have two silicone tubes that resembles lips it's not! But there you go,, you go and reason with them
Intelectualu@reddit
modernity
/s
Designer-Touch9263@reddit
In Serbia hijab wear women who live in region near Bosnia and Montenegro border which is called Sandžak where is muslim population higher than orthodox
janesmex@reddit
In my two definitely no, not sure what would happen in areas with Muslim minorities.
Atlandios000@reddit
Am neither Muslim or religious and not a woman but I kinda like it.
Intelectualu@reddit
i`ve seen the same but not by locals, by foreign students and workers which i don`t mind as long as they mind their buisness
ThingCandid9553@reddit
of_trapezous@reddit
don't get crazy on hijab. my thought is that in free societies like Albania it's just fem virtue signaling. treat it with outspoken contempt but don't loose your values over it. let it remain free. You have accomplished so much as a society. Don't let bronze age ethics prevail by stooping to their level.
the-joatmon@reddit
if I were you, I would get crazy on it. that's how islamist started to destroy my country (turkey).
nuclear-experiment@reddit
Relentless peer pressure and mindless religious virtue signalling leads to this.
konkurrenterna@reddit
Never been to albania. But I can say growing up around albanians in sweden. I only ever met one with a hijab. But her big brother was very into islam. Like he left for syria back when isis was a thing. He died there too. Kinda nuts when I think about it.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Yeah, many Swedes assume I’m muslim when they find out I’m Albanian. 😂
Lairuth@reddit
Haha, check out Turkey after 2000’s.
New-Ranger-8960@reddit
Here not even Muslims wear one, unless you go deep in rural areas like Pomak villages
Prudent-Werewolf3712@reddit
There are exemples of being paid to do so. Not saying this lady is.
culpaa@reddit
I have bad news for you. They will rise exponentially. This is what happened in Turkey
Brilliant_Ant3771@reddit
it has incresead and also the people that are from the capital are traditionally muslim