Intel lands Tesla as first major customer for 14A chip technology

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steve09089@reddit

Huh, I really thought that Terafab stuff was vaporware, but I guess not

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Whirblewind@reddit

What legitimate reasons lead you to think it as vaporware?

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Capital-Froyo-4359@reddit

That seems like a weird argument to make about the most successful person on the planet. Sure, a lot of his proposals have fail.. but clearly many others have succeeded.

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imtheproof@reddit

A lot of what makes him the "most successful" though is heavily inflated market caps for his companies.

Also, people change. The Elon Musk of 2016 (that set up most of the position he's in now) is clearly not the Elon Musk of 2026.

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Capital-Froyo-4359@reddit

I mean in this context we're clearly talking about success in the business world.

PS: Nobody outside of Reddit haters knows or cares about some diversity in Thailand insulting him.

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imtheproof@reddit

I mean in this context we're clearly talking about success in the business world.

Yes, which is why I led with the point that you conveniently ignored.

PS: Nobody outside of Reddit haters knows or cares about some diver in Thailand insulting him.

It was an exceptionally public event. Now what about the other 2 parts that you conveniently ignored?

Did I run into a Musk cultist today? Is that what's happening?

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Capital-Froyo-4359@reddit

Why does reddit think im such black and white logic? Like either you have ti be a cultist or a hater? Why can't I just be someone who cares more about the facts than the personalities?

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imtheproof@reddit

Cause of the manner that you responded in? Reread your previous reply and tell me that that's "caring about the facts".

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Capital-Froyo-4359@reddit

It absolutely is a fact that if you go ask 100 people on the street what is up with Elon and Thai cave divers 95 of them will be totally clueless.

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imtheproof@reddit

In 2026, sure. In 2018 when it was happening, I think you'd get a pretty good response rate. It was on every major news outlet all over the world.

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kensaundm31@reddit

Because this is the same person (Musk) that confidently stated there would be 1 million robotaxis on the road in 2019. Not to mention the preposterously long list of equally ridiculous claims...

I think he very recently said that "AI will create so much wealth that everyone can have a penthouse if they want’."

Yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and press "X" to doubt.

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Loose_Skill6641@reddit

Terrafab as Musk has described it would cost $2 trillion to construct

musk may be rich but he does not have anywhere close to $2 trillion, nor will be get anyone to borrow him that much

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Death2RNGesus@reddit

Hes basically worth 1 Trillion himself, that is pretty 'close' to 2 trillion.

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jaaval@reddit

that's not the same as having a trillion dollars. When he bought twitter he had to take very heavy loans to be able to pay the 40something billion for it.

Billionaires' wealth is usually in stock assets. Which they a) usually don't want to sell and b) often can't sell in significant amounts without causing significant market distortions.

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they take like 30% of them, leverage them into loans with ballon payments, and then leverage another similar-sized section of their portfolio to pay off the original ballon payments (usually their wealth has increased by then so its smaller), plus X % more to grab more cash.

rinse and repeat.

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jaaval@reddit

At these size loans the interest rate is starting to form a big risk. Also interest isn’t as low as it used to be when the previous financial wisdom was envisioned.

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SippieCup@reddit

For sure.

I just wanted to point out that billionaires never actually sell the majority of their shares.

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Uptons_BJs@reddit

From what I can see now, it looks like there might be confusion over what "build new fabs" mean.

Seems like initially, a lot of people expected Musk's companies to actually build and operate fabs - which is extremely difficult and hard to pull off. But based on the wording in this article ("Intel joined Musk's ⁠Terafab AI chip complex"), they're just building a complex and having other companies join in, which is a lot easier.

To use a shitty analogy, it's like the difference between "Build a mall and operate the stores and restaurants in it" and "build a mall and lease the space out to store and restaurant operators", which is a lot easier.

If all Musk is doing is building a complex, and inviting Intel, Micron, et al to set up fabs in said complex, this should be pretty easy to pull off.

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-protonsandneutrons-@reddit

Hooray, if it pans out. One concern is that Tesla's timelines and production targets are not, in a word, realistic.

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ElementII5@reddit

One concern is that Tesla's timelines and production targets are not, in a word, usually realistic.

So are intels. Wonder who is going to win the blame game on that one once it doesn't peak out.

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tacticalangus@reddit

Every time you see one of these dogmatic bots that consistently demonstrate the same biases in favor of and against certain companies, you can usually be pretty sure they come from one of these stockholder subreddits.

This bot is no different, a good ole devout cult member from r/AMD_Stock

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knz0@reddit

Just need noiserr and consistencywelder here and we'd have a full bingo

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steve09089@reddit

Ah yes, “just cap the wattage of the laptop to get the same battery life as Lunar Lake”.

If it were that easy, I wouldn’t be trying to throw out my Alder Lake laptop ahead of schedule right now, and regretting not getting a Zen 3 laptop instead.

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Kryohi@reddit

You're accusing someone of being a "dogmatic bot" simply because they stated an obvious fact inferred from the past 4 nodes Intel has developed, seriously?

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tacticalangus@reddit

No.

I frequent this sub and even occasionally lurk the Intel and AMD stock subs. The users that demonstrate zero nuance and treat their favorite hardware company like a sports team are pretty obvious.

As far Intel's last 4 nodes. Intel 10/7, Intel 4, Intel 3 and 18A. The 10nm was obviously a disaster and the newer nodes arguably had smaller delays, but they are very much in HVM now and are obviously viable. Intel's execution and PPAC is getting better not worse. I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make about this but you're going to need to come up with something more concrete if you want to make the argument that 14A won't pan out.

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ElementII5@reddit

I frequent this sub and even occasionally lurk the Intel and AMD stock subs. The users that demonstrate zero nuance and treat their favorite hardware company like a sports team are pretty obvious.

Yeah, I am pretty biased. Most of it though stems from intels own behavior. They did some very illegal und moral despicable stuff to kill their competition. Not just AMD mind you, this is just the one company that survived it.

As a result all of us had to pay out of our asses for shitty 4 cores for a very long time while intel raked in billions and distributed it to their beneficiaries while also largely stopping progress on their technology development. The reason why intel is behind now and TSMC is ahead is because intel thought they killed AMD and didn't need to be as aggressive anymore. Now they reap what they sowed.

All of this is topped by their unwillingness to eat humble pie. Until recently though. I must admit Lip Bu Tan is a breath of fresh air! Although I do not see that penetrating to the lower echelons.

What also helps is I am from across the pond and I do not have a nationalistic stake in this. I pretty much do not care if intel is just a second or third fiddle in the foundry game as long as they behave properly and keep the competition in check with offering decent perf/value. Their 270k is a great product for the price and that is good for everybody around.

As far Intel's last 4 nodes. Intel 10/7, Intel 4, Intel 3 and 18A. The 10nm was obviously a disaster and the newer nodes arguably had smaller delays, but they are very much in HVM now and are obviously viable. Intel's execution and PPAC is getting better not worse.

That is the most generous description of those nodes by ignoring a lot of facts.

10nm: Agree

Intel 4 and 3 were and still are very expensive.

18A small delay? No, huge delays. Is still ramping. Volume is very much not where Intel needs it.

The important bit is that foundry is bleeding money for years now. You know that making money with a node makes it actually viable, not just that they can produce working chips. Commercial success is the only factor for a... company.

As for 14A. Sure lets play that game. When do you think it will come online? When will intel make money with it? We'll come back to your predictions then?

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Geddagod@reddit

Most of it though stems from intels own behavior. They did some very illegal und moral despicable stuff to kill their competition.

This is such a stretch. Illegal, sure, but this behavior isn't unique to companies in a monopoly position.

And "despicable"? This isn't a nestle situation going on here. No need to try to play up the situation.

while also largely stopping progress on their technology development.

They were still pouring billions into R&D. Their inability to move onto 10nm wasn't for a lack of trying.

The reason why intel is behind now and TSMC is ahead is because intel thought they killed AMD and didn't need to be as aggressive anymore.

Largely false. Intel 10nm scaling was extremely aggressive, and they had to scale back many 10nm features to get it yielding right.

Maybe on the architecture side this is more believable, but we also saw what happened when they did try to port their new architectures onto 14nm (rocketlake).

Although I do not see that penetrating to the lower echelons.

Are we supposed to believe you are conversing with hundreds of Intel engineers or something for you to get that sense?

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Kryohi@reddit

> I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make about this

It wasn't my argument really, I personally am simply saying that it's true they are usually years late compared to their initial timelines, and I don't think this is an opinion. Of course it's entirely possible for them to get better at this.

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Geddagod@reddit

I mean, he isn't wrong though lol.

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tacticalangus@reddit

Yes, I believe you would understand. I've seen you arguing with the Intel militia members on their stock subreddit too lol. Same kind of cultish behavior there.

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ButtPlugForPM@reddit

The entire company is a shit show.

We got contracted out to build some local systems for tesla dealers here in australia.

And rocked up..NOT A SINGLE person at Tesla australia knew what the fuck we doing there..as it was all US side who had done the framework..

Like how the fuck is ur company so fucking stupid that ur local australian based dealer centres don't know ppl are coming to do work..but the office in ANOTHER country does lol

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Seanspeed@reddit

I dont think Tesla's timelines are necessarily that important here. They'll sign a contract for x number of wafers/chips in a certain period of time and it's Intel's job to deliver that.

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ThatDistantStar@reddit

For their datacenters or something? automotive microcontrollers stilll on 45nm to 130nm

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Yebi@reddit

I don't know much of anything about the car industry, but while 45-130nm sounds about right for ECUs and such, it definitely does not sound right for active safety systems, driver assist, and infotainment

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EJ19876@reddit

Tesla’s FSD hardware is on Samsung 7nm, I believe. I do think most of the capacity would be for DC products though.

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Any_News_7208@reddit

Isn't it on TSMC 7nm? I recalled AMD using their chips for the infotainment. Would be interesting to see them use Samsung and TSMC 7nm in the same car

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EJ19876@reddit

It is interesting that Intel seems willing to license their node. The money being discussed must be significant. It would be the ideal outcome for both companies. SpaceX/Tesla get fabs without having to build a node from the ground up, and Intel receives licensing fees and probably gets paid to operate the fab without having to cough up tens of billions in capital.

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imtheproof@reddit

Also the angle that Musk has extreme amounts of influence with the federal government, and the federal government owns a part of Intel. Can't prove that played any role of course, but it might've gotten Tesla some relatively favorable terms.

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Capital-Froyo-4359@reddit

This decision was undeniably influenced by politics.

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Geddagod@reddit

Good for Intel. Though it appears as if Tesla is not a IFS customer in the traditional sense.

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Vince789@reddit

That makes sense since Samsung was essentially providing Tesla an IDM service, so it makes sense Intel would too

Maybe IDM is not the right term, but Samsung were definitely heavily contributing to Tesla's designs

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jmlinden7@reddit

Semi custom chips. Basically they'll sell you a modified version of their existing chip designs.

It's like what AMD did for the PS5/Xbox chips.

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Seanspeed@reddit

This sounds more like a commitment to provide manufacturing at some point rather than a concrete contract, unfortunately.

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Capital-Froyo-4359@reddit

What did you expect? The lead customer on a node is always more of a partnership than a firm contract this far out.

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Yebi@reddit

"Musk said <...> plans to use..."

In other news, no real contract has been signed. If you put this in the context of the ongoing tech/AI bubble, where countless "plans" and letters of intent have been used to pump stock prices and VC funding, only to later turn out to be BS that was clearly never going to happen... I'm not holding my breath.

To be clear, I'm not going the other way to say that this is $100% not going to happen - it might. But this should definitely be an "I'll believe it when I see it" type thing to anyone paying attention

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iBoMbY@reddit

Not surprising, since they are also cooperating with Intel on their own "Gigafab" plans.