Was the F-8 crusader called the F8U before the designation system was changed in 1962?
Posted by Logical-Bullfrog3216@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 31 comments
Kanyiko@reddit
Yes.
The Navy designation system before 1962 was a bit of a legacy mess.
In short, the Navy's designation system was as follows:
[Mission modifier][number of model in role by manufacturer][manufacturer suffix][DASH][subvariant number][Mission specifier]
In the case of the Crusader, that would have been: [F for Fighter][8th model in role built by Vought][U for Vought]. The F8U-1T would have been -[first subvariant][Trainer version]; the F8U-2N would have been -[second subvariant][All-Weather capable].
In the case of Vought, the F8U was the F8U because Vought had built seven fighters before. These had been:
- The 1926 Vought FU (20 built)
- The 1929 Vought XF2U (1 experimental prototype built, hence the X prefix for experimental)
- The 1933 Vought XF3U (again, one experimental prototype)
- The 1940 Vought F4U Corsair
- The late-1940s Vought XF5U Flapjack (built but never flew before its cancellation)
- The 1946 Vought F6U Pirate
- And the 1948 Vought F7U Cutlass.
The Vought F4U Corsair demonstrates two of the problems with the Navy's pre-1962 system. The F4U had been designed as a fighter, but gradually it gained a ground attack capability, to the point where the F4U-6 variant was re-designated as the Vought AU-1 (Attacker - first by Vought - first subvariant). Meanwhile, the F4U was also license-built by Brewster and Goodyear; Brewster-built Corsairs were known as F3A (Fighter - by Brewster), while Goodyear-built Corsairs were known as FGs (Fighter - first by Goodyear)
On the other hand, the F4U was one of a crowd of F4s in service with the Navy. A lot of manufacturers built aircraft for the US Navy, and a lot of them got as far as building four different designs of fighters for them, so you not only had the Vought F4U Corsair, but also the Grumman F4F Wildcat, Douglas F4D Skyray, McDonnell F4H Phantom II, Boeing F4B, Curtiss F4C, and very nearly the Canadian Car & Foundry F4W Bearcat (license-built Grumman F8F Bearcat). And it wasn't that every F4 served at the same time - Curtiss' F4C flew as early as 1924, while McDonnell's F4H made its first flight as late as 1958.
To add to all of this designation confusion, the US Air Force used a different system of designations, so a plane could be in service with both services, but under different designators. For instance, when the Phantom II entered service in 1960, it was the F4H Phantom II for the US Navy, but the F-110 Spectre for the US Air Force.
Confused yet? So was Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, who got confused over all of these different designation systems and ordered the Pentagon to apply a single system over all of the services.
Under the new system the F8U conveniently became the F-8, but not every aircraft had that 'luck'. The F4H Phantom II/F-110 Spectre became the F-4 while the F4D Skyray became the F-6; the F3D Skyknight became the F10; the F2H Banshee became the F-2 while the F2Y Sea Dart became the F-7. Most of the then-USAF aircraft retained their legacy 'Century' designation (F-100 Super Sabre, F-101 Voodoo, F-102 Delta Dagger, F-104 Starfighter, F-105 Thunderchief, F-106 Delta Dart) while new projects were introduced into the new series (F-5 Freedom Fighter/Tiger, and YF-12).
joshwagstaff13@reddit
The funny part of it is that some things worked out quite neatly.
For example, take the A4D/A-4.
The A4D-1 became the A-4A, the A4D-2 became the A-4B, and the A4D-2N became the A-4C. The A4D-3 and A4D-4 were proposals that never reached the prototype phase - the former getting mockups and serials before being cancelled - so the next one up was the A4D-5. To avoid the confusing situation of an A4D variant becoming the A-4D, it moved up to the next letter, becoming the A-4E.
Kanyiko@reddit
Well, that one worked out reasonably well because there were no Air Force equivalent attackers that required their own designation in the new sequence. Under the 1947 designation changes, the Air Force had 'abolished' attackers, with single-engined attackers being assigned under the F-for-Fighter category (the A-24 Banshee became the F-24 Banshee; and it also explains why there were a number of tactical nuclear strike aircraft under the Fighter-category such as the F-84F Thunderstreak, F-101A/C Voodoo and F-105 Thunderchief); while multi-engined attackers were simply re-designated as Bombers (the A-26 Invader becoming the B-26 Invader and forever causing confusion with the B-26 Marauder being the most well-known example of that).
So the AD Skyraider became the A-1; the AJ Savage became the A-2; the A3D Skywarrior became the A-3; the A4D Skyhawk became the A-4; the A3J Vigilante became the A-5; and the A2F Intruder became the A-6. The A-7 Corsair II was the first attacker to be built under the tri-service, and never to carry a designator under the old system (which would have been A3U for the Navy variant, the AU being the F4U-6 Corsair and A2U being the unbuilt strike version of the F7U Cutlass).
Raguleader@reddit
One of my favorite weird little developments with the Tri-Service Designation system was the FJ Fury becoming the F-1, rather than becoming an F-86 variant. The two series of jets had a lot of cross-polination as they evolved for their relative missions.
Kanyiko@reddit
I always consider the FJ-1 the 'F-86 that could have been' if North American hadn't gone for the swept-wing design. It's certainly the most quirky member of the F-86 family.
FenPhen@reddit
Don't forget Aardvarks and Nighthawks!
McNamara was confused around the time the F-111 was being developed, but they grandfathered in the F-111 so it's the last one.
But during the Cold War, the US was test flying captured Soviet jets and they gave them false F-11x numbers instead of their real numbers.
And then for the Nighthawk, they went with F-117 to be extra deceptive.
Kanyiko@reddit
We don't have the F-110, F-113 and F-114. We do Have Doughnut, though.
TastyBeefJerky@reddit
They did have the F-110 though. That was the original USAF designation for the US Navy F4H. After the designation update, both became known as the F-4.
Kanyiko@reddit
They did - but later they reused "YF-110" to cover the Israeli-captured MiG-21F-13
From Secret Projects:
YF-110: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21F-13 "Fishbed-F" used in HAVE DOUGHNUT evaluation program
YF-110B: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21F-13 "Fishbed-C/E" (serials 75-001, 75-004 and 75-010); no data
YF-110C: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21F-13 "Fishbed" (actually a Chengdu J-7B variant built in China)
YF-110D: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21MF "Fishbed-J"
YF-112/C: suggested candidates for a YF-112 designation include a Sukhoi Su-22 and (less likely) a MiG-19.
YF-113B: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23BN "Flogger-F".
YF-113C: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17F "Fresco-C" (actually a Chinese-built J-5), used in HAVE PRIVILEGE program.
YF-113E: Mikoyan MiG-23MS "Flogger-E".
YF-113G: US-built stealth prototype of the early 1990s; no data.
YF-114D: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17PF "Fresco-D" (serial 75-008).
YF-115: perhaps used for the Sukhoi Su-7 "Fitter".
YF-116A: perhaps used for the Mikoyan MiG-25 "Foxbat".
YF-117D: Northrop BSAX prototype for TACIT BLUE program.
YF-117E: quoted but no information.
YF-118: perhaps used for the Mikoyan MiG-29 "Fulcrum".
F-121: dubious designation for rumored General Dynamics "Sentinel" fighter-bomber
Roger_Freedman_Phys@reddit
Yes, as will be revealed by a few moments’ spent on Wikipedia - the use of which seems to have become a lost art, like making candles or writing in cursive.
Logical-Bullfrog3216@reddit (OP)
I looked on Wikipedia for a while and it don’t say anything about it.
Roger_Freedman_Phys@reddit
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_F-8_Crusader …
Logical-Bullfrog3216@reddit (OP)
Yes but this does not say if it was changed in 1962
Raguleader@reddit
Sorry, this is not r/complainingaboutpeopleontheinternet, please try to stay on topic.
MushroomSoupSock@reddit
So there is this thing called communites. You can go into them and ask questions of people that maybe have more knowledge then you. Like what was the point of this comment other than to be a dick? There wasn't one, someone asked a community of people that enjoy something a question, you know to maybe even get a more detailed or nuanced answer than what some loser wrote on Wikipedia that may or may not be true. Anyways, you're a dick and I'm sure you have no friends.
Js987@reddit
Does it say nude mud on the little variable incidence wing hump?
WarthogOsl@reddit
Might be a joke on the "NM" tail code of the air wing. I believe that plane is from VF-194
Logical-Bullfrog3216@reddit (OP)
I don’t think so, but it does sure look like it
FrequentTechnology22@reddit
That, to me... was a beautiful airplane.
Logical-Bullfrog3216@reddit (OP)
One of my favorites too. I really like all the planes from the Vietnam time period. F-4, A-4, A-1, F-8, B-52D, MiG-21, MiG-17, B-66, all wonderful looking aircraft to me
Secret-Tennis7214@reddit
The original BAMF
Guadalajara3@reddit
Can any pros here please tell me what the lifting area between the wings above the fuselage is for?
hongooi@reddit
Not a pro, but the Crusader had a unique feature where the wings could tilt up to increase the angle of attack, for more lift during takeoff and landing. That block you see is just the exposed wing spar.
Perfect_Big_5907@reddit
Yeah i came from an all Naval Aviator family. That thing was a good fighter but damn , come on engineers. Could not land on a carrier because of shitty over the nose visibility. Hey lets just put a jackscrew on the front of the wing.
Raguleader@reddit
From the same people who gave the F4U Corsair that funny inverted gull wing. A lot of airplane designs feature such weird quirks to address various challenges without redesigning everything.
Perfect_Big_5907@reddit
Well aware of that as i spent 30 years flying one of everything. It was always to us one of those things like well, we built this thing for X purpose. Damn, it won't do it now what. I know how to fix it ! Nothing against the plane. Great gunfighter for sure.
ScarfaceAC2@reddit
Variable incidence wings.
They allow higher angle of attack for landing, without having to raise the nose up.
Essentially improves visibility when landing on a carrier.
Guadalajara3@reddit
Thats awesome, thank you. I saw it a lot in pictures but never was able to find out the purpose of that
T65Bx@reddit
The team won a prize for it. The actuation isn’t actually at the hinge, but at a small piston near the front of the moving area.
Peter_Merlin@reddit
Yes. In 1953, Vought won a contract to build three XF8U-1 prototypes. The first one flew in March 1955. The second prototype and the first production F8U-1 made their first flights together on the same day, 30 September 1955.
The F8U-1E was equipped with AN/APS-67 radar for limited all-weather capability. The F8U-1T was a two-seat trainer.
There was an F8U-2 version that eventually became the F-8C and an XF8U-3 that was practically a new design altogether.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_F-8_Crusader
spastical-mackerel@reddit
Yes. The 8th fighter contracted for the US Navy from the Vought company (later Chance-Vought), which was assigned manufacturer code ‘U’ under the old system.