Why is my iron sight and dot windage misaligned
Posted by Deep_Philosophy1497@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 61 comments
I just sighted in my red dot at 15 yards and don’t know why the windage between the irons and dot don’t line up. For instance if my point of aim with the dot is on a 2 inch by 2 inch dot at 15 yards, my iron sights are way off and vice versa. I’m a rather new shooter but I sighted it on while resting it and was shooting 2 inch groups at 15 yards so I feel like the dot is correctly adjusted (dot is not that big also I believe it’s a 3 MOA. Camera makes it look bigger)
ghoulgang_@reddit
Are you left eye dominant and right handed?
sorrybutidgaf@reddit
Did you shoot the gun perfectly straight without the optic? You could just shoot left
Deep_Philosophy1497@reddit (OP)
Gun came with optic
afcarbon15@reddit
Gums don't come from the factory "sighted in"
FatBoyStew@reddit
They're generally on paper at X distance, but that I wouldn't hold my breath for more than that.
Delta-IX@reddit
Not even five gum?
sorrybutidgaf@reddit
Id recommend taking it off and seeing where you are at with it. I shoot low left on all new guns and after a day at the range i feel how it is supposed to work and then i can sight it in
gunsforevery1@reddit
That’s called a flinch. You’re also right handed I bet too.
QuinceDaPence@reddit
Some also just come like that from the factory. For instance it's a known thing on the BG 2.0s to be way off, low left. And many have drifted the sights to fix it. Mine you almost have to stick the front dot on top of the right rear post.
ChatTerminator@reddit
Just turn the optic off…
Deep_Philosophy1497@reddit (OP)
Good idea
Siegelski@reddit
Don't take it off. Just lower the brightness til you can't see the dot. Your irons are still functional with the dot on the gun so you really don't need to go to all the effort of taking it off and then remounting it.
sorrybutidgaf@reddit
I hope it works out for ya:)
I sighted in ONE optic when it was actually a skill issue on my end and once i corrected it, i was shooting off with that optic because it was zeroed at a compensation for my low left shooting!
Testament42@reddit
Are you left eye dominant?
Maximum_Dweeb4473@reddit
Does your point of aim match your point of impact with the optic?
Does your point of aim match your point of impact with the irons?
If so, there’s no problem. They are two separate independent sighting systems that have nothing to do with each other.
It’s also possible you have a flinch, and you compensated for it when zeroing your dot. Not great lol. If you aren’t going to train the flinch away, perhaps it’s for the best. Have you tried having an experienced shooter with strong fundamentals try shooting it? I’d try that and see how they do.
smokeyser@reddit
Nothing to do with each other? So where they point has nothing to do with where the bullet goes? Because they're not pointing at the same place.
Maximum_Dweeb4473@reddit
…iron sights and optics are two totally separate aiming systems that should not be used as reference for each other unless you’re a dumbass.
DrunkenArmadillo@reddit
What he is saying is that you don't need to line up your iron sights everything you aim with the red dot because the red dot is a (nearly) paralax free aiming system. But that has nothing to do with sighting the gun in. If you were to freeze a properly sighted in gun in place and move your line of sight into a position where the iron sights are lined up, then the dot will be cowitnessing with the iron sights.
smokeyser@reddit
So you're saying that when you twist the gun to the right to make the dot line up with the target that was previously lined up with the irons, the barrel doesn't move and remains pointed at the same spot on the target? You do know that you can't turn the gun to align the sites without also moving the barrel and changing where it's aimed, right? It's not possible for the sights to point at different places and both be correct.
VT800@reddit
While they are two separate independent sighting systems, the windage adjustment should be the same. This is a skill issue.
Deep_Philosophy1497@reddit (OP)
Good idea thank you. I plan to train lots more. I just turned 21 so I’m relatively new to shooting hand guns.
Witty_Committee3946@reddit
Are you right handed? May be an issue with your trigger squeeze.
Deep_Philosophy1497@reddit (OP)
I am right handed and you definitely could be right but when sighting it in I had it resting on a bag and I slowly squeezed the trigger until the gun went off. I was basically letting the gun fire itself when it wanted to and I feel like I wasn’t imposing any movement
gunsforevery1@reddit
Do that 5 times, remove the mag and ammo and dry fire it. You have a flinch.
usa2a@reddit
Do the same thing over again but hold the gun left handed.
Since you're shooting off bags that shouldn't be hard to do, you should be able to shoot just as well lefty or righty.
If the zero moves you had a trigger control problem (sandbags don't automatically solve this with pistols).
If the zero doesn't move, great, your dot zero is right. You should probably move your irons to line up with your dot, at least as a starting point. Then test the irons zero with the dot turned off to fine tune.
gunsforevery1@reddit
Because you need to zero it.
86PickleRick1986@reddit
It’s Green
DrFranknMrStein@reddit
get a bore sight and line them correctly
ReverendReed@reddit
I’m assuming that’s a Hellcat.
Personally, I’ve never shot a polymer Springfield well naturally. I always shot left with them, and I’ve owned a few.
XD Mod 2, XD-E, Hellcat.
I pick up any Glock, and I can put rounds on target with little effort.
It may be worth trying different guns if you can to see if you can replicate the issue. If they all shot left, it’s you. If it’s just the Hellcat like it was for me, then it’s the gun and then you know.
Ok_Crab_3522@reddit
Iron sights are traditionally zeroed at 25 yards, while many ppl zero their dots at closer ranges like 15 yards. This accounts for a slight elevation difference. Windage differences often occur because iron sights are rarely perfectly zeroed from the factory. Honestly, it's not worth the hassle of drifting the irons left and right to have a perfect zero. Zero your optic, learn to ignore the irons. If you ever actually need the irons because the optic goes down, just know that you hit high left.
EntrySure1350@reddit
They are two separate sighting systems. They do not need to, and often do not, perfectly co-witness. Zero the irons as irons. Zero the dot as a dot. If the dot fails, the irons will still be zeroed assuming you actually did zero them.
ad895@reddit
What..... If your dot doesn't co-witness with your irons, one of them isn't zeroed.
NeuHughtron@reddit
That is not true. The windage (left and right) does need to line up. Both should be aligned to the center of the barrel. Either the irons are off or the dot is.
coldafsteel@reddit
IAmMagumin@reddit
In no world does parallax cause this separation of POAs. If the irons are zeroed, that dot is off.
efjoker@reddit
Zero in the optic. The dot falls where it falls. Move the sights to align with the zeroed dot.
Pixelated_Armory@reddit
Pistol / red dot instructor here.
One of them is off, obviously.
My guess would be it’s the green dot. Very common for brand new shooters to zero their optic in a manner that tailors their bad shooting skills. Kinda like having a car that doesn’t drive straight but instead of fixing the wheel alignment, you just re position the steering wheel where now it’s straight when in reality it should be canted left or right. Best thing to do in this scenario is to start with the iron sights.
Get a laser bore sighting tool, point the gun at 10-15 yards with the optic turned off, and the laser should be in alignment with the iron sights. Either right at the tip of the front post or maybe right underneath. If the windage is crazy off, have someone (or a few others) try shooting it as well (just irons). It could just be a miss aligned, janky laser. This should give you a good reading on the gun but just be careful. If you hand it to a bunch of bad shooters, you can get some inconsistent readings.
If the windage on the irons are noticeably off via laser bore sighter, and others shooting it, take it to a gun smith to have them re align the rear sights. Once you confirm the irons are good to go, next is to tackle on the optic.
The correct thing to do is to get a mechanical zero with your optic. This means that you would in fact line up the green dot with your iron sights first. Now as you start shooting, if the gun is grouping off center of your bullseye while using the green dot independently, that means there’s a human error on your behalf that you need to work on.
If you end up doing what most novices do which is to simply zero the optic the way that tailors your bad shooting skills without first co witnessing it to your irons, then you’ll probably have to re-zero a few more times as you progressively improve your shooting skills.
Which is sometimes an okay thing to do. At the end of the day, what’s final is your bullets going where you need them to go in a bad situation so kinda figure out that one on your own. Just understand if your irons are perfectly dialed, but your reticle is not lining up with them like the pictures above, the zero is trash and it’s human error.
Drew1231@reddit
Do your iron sights happen to shoot low and left? 🤔
DozerLVL@reddit
That's a green dot.
RGBlowMe@reddit
Ignore literally anything anybody saying that they are on separate sight planes has to say. Being separate systems does not bypass the entire concept of perception and Euclidean geometry. Pistol iron sights should cowitness with iron sights both in terms of windage and elevation. Parallax will create a small, effectively inconsequential, error in elevation in modern red dot sights when viewed above aligned iron sights, but there will be none in windage.
This misalignment happens because of user error. Either your iron sights or your red dot sight is off. It's common for iron sights to be off in windage because you are less aware of movement of your gun during a trigger pull that moves your groups to the left or right. Red dot sights are actually a helpful training aid specifically because it makes movement of the gun so easy to see. Also, a lot of people just don't have great vision and struggle to keep their front sight post actually centered in the rear sight notch. It's generally more common to have your iron sights be off, though I've met people with bad enough astigmatism that they struggle to zero a red dot sight.
Spydude84@reddit
This.
DudBaLL04@reddit
What's your zero distance? Hold it up at distance and see if it corrects itself. If you zero at 15 yards say, pointing at something close can most certainly do this.
Aardvarksof1776@reddit
Irons could be off?
UsernameO123456789@reddit
Do you hold the gun with a slight tilt to the left? I noticed I may have done this and will rezero my own ccw soon. That said, my POA/POI is fine as is, it’s just for aesthetic reasons imma rezero.
In all actuality, if your POA/POI is fine, you don’t have to rezero.
FoggyDog78@reddit
The two systems are independent of each other. Otherwise, we'd all just be lining up our dots with our iron sights and calling it a day. Study up on your tools OP.
Sarge_09@reddit
Hold the gun straight
ReactionAble7945@reddit
Current guns with factory ammo should be dead on from the factory. So, the issue is more than likely YOU. Have someone else shoot it to verify.
Once verified, you have to decide if you are going to fix your shooting, or not.
Unicorn187@reddit
They are two different sighting systems. Do both work to hit the target?
TheWarrior45@reddit
This is normal.
Deep_Philosophy1497@reddit (OP)
What if I were to need to use iron sights in the event my sight dies or malfunctions
VT800@reddit
FYI, this is not normal lol
TheWarrior45@reddit
Go shoot and verify the iron sight at your desired distance.
Mike__Hawk_@reddit
Shoot it and find out
Witty_Committee3946@reddit
Shouldn’t it co-witness?
Deep_Philosophy1497@reddit (OP)
I thought so that’s why I’m confused
Plane-End8656@reddit
Trigger squeeze. Probably anticipation or jerking the trigger. Your other problem is a Glock problem. They have notoriously bad triggers.
sorrybutidgaf@reddit
Not necessarily bad, just not what people WANT to feel on a trigger. They function and are reliable, just squishy.
Inevitable-Sleep-907@reddit
Fix your poor fundamentals with this one trick
secret_alpaca@reddit
My pistols irons cowitness with the dots mostly. The windage is spot on but the heights are slightly off. Did you use same ammo to sight them? But if they are both zeroed and poa and poi are good independently, I guess it's not a huge deal. It is strange though.
n1cplz@reddit
Achieving proper sight alignment/sight picture is less obvious with an optical device than it is with front and rear sights. There is only one way to line a notch up between two other notches. There are many angles you can be looking through the optic from. As long as you are consistent with the way you are looking through the optic, you are operating under the same basic principle as a multi reference point iron sight system, and will be able to produce consistent groups.
combatinfantryactual@reddit
Do you shoot low left with your iron sights?