Fight Club: more relevant than ever or product of a bygone era? I think it holds up, my buddy disagrees. I am Jack's complete lack of surprise…
Posted by AdTop3924@reddit | Xennials | View on Reddit | 576 comments
I saw this mentioned on another thread this morning and thought the movie deserved a separate call out and discussion.
DamarsLastKanar@reddit
I believe Clerks, Office Space, Matrix, and Fight Club hold similar ethos.
Millkstake@reddit
Don't forget Idiocracy
wait_ichangedmymind@reddit
It wasn’t supposed to be a prophecy…
Zooxer77@reddit
Yet, it became one. 😔
ZedRDuce76@reddit
Right down to crocs being popular
PembrokePercy@reddit
The Crocs are always gonna be my favorite addition. I think as soon as they became popular, the interstellar wheels began to turn. Dooming us all to a hellscape of reality we never deserved. Great film.
Robot-Candy@reddit
They are a physical manifestation of everyone’s desire to trade elegance and well built function for ugly throw away comfort. The ultimate not give a shittedness that has become many humans.
Shortened product lifespans and harmful materials win out over timeless heritage material every day.
Beginning_Law_3399@reddit
“What if we made sweatpants for feet?”
DopesickJesus@reddit
Reading this while wearing my crocs 🥲
eggs_erroneous@reddit
Damn, if that's true then I'm part of the problem. I really have traded style for convenience. I have sacrificed my coolness on the altar of laziness. And, yes, I am pretty stupid. I think my only saving grace is that I never procreated. So maybe I can be given a pass for not further polluting the gene pool. Cause I'm not giving up the Crocs. The siren song of laziness is too sweet.
foreskinboots@reddit
The irony is the full shoe crocks are comfortable as fuck, subjectively of course.
FungiStudent@reddit
I use crocs at home as house shoes. But I wear Franks boots outside the house. Always Franks. Franks boots saved my feet from having horrible heel pain every day and night. I guess I have fallen arches or just wore too many converse or other bad-for-you shoes over the years. I decided to try one of the PNW boot brands and Franks has the Patriot model, which is an introductory model. After my Patriots I never looked back. Ive now got 4 pairs of Franks, two off the shelf and 2 Made to Order. The 55 last is a godsend. But yeah after wearing 10" leather boots all day I wear crocs in the house to stay off the cold floor. I try like hell not to wear them outside. Maybe once in the last 5 years or so.
hlessi_newt@reddit
we do deserve what we've allowed.
MrBearMarshall@reddit
Damn straight.
judasmitchell@reddit
It did get one thing very wrong: if you show the idiots in charge verifiable proof that something they strongly believe is wrong, they'll change their minds.
Allaplgy@reddit
There is apparently a segment of people on the political left that hate that movie because they see it as endorsement of eugenics.
HowDareYouAskMyName@reddit
I don't hate the movie (though I do hate the "it was a prophecy lol I am smart" circle jerk). That being said, it is definitely eugenics-adjacent. "If we allow all people to breed the world will go to shit" isn't exactly subtle
Zooxer77@reddit
Was it that, or is it "if too many people choose not to breed" yada yada . . . still eugenics-ish of a conclusion to draw, although I don't know that was the filmmakers intent
HowDareYouAskMyName@reddit
Nah, it was specifically about the types of people who are breeding and the types of people who are not, and that the wrong type of people are outbreeding the right type.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing Mike Judge of intentionally and knowingly pushing some evil agenda, but it's hard to ignore it. And let's be honest, the movie could have worked just as well if there was some other cause of stupidity, even something as simple as "TV makes people stupid" or "lead poisoning" or something
Allaplgy@reddit
But that wasn't the point of the movie. The point was stupidity as inherited culture. It never says "stupid people shouldn't breed." It's just saying that if only stupid people breed and pass their culture of stupidity (and yes, possibly their "stupid" genes), then humanity would end up with only stupid people.
Again, nowhere does it suggest that "stupid" people should not be allowed to breed
Zooxer77@reddit
Exactly.
Allaplgy@reddit
I got blocked for that. Which is funny, because I was starting to see where they were coming from.
Zooxer77@reddit
How dare you make a valid point!!
Allaplgy@reddit
How dare they, I guess.
I still mostly disagreed, but I got why they felt the way they did.
HowDareYouAskMyName@reddit
bullshit, the point was stupidity is inherited biologically, you're so full of shit
Allaplgy@reddit
That's not the message at all though.
HowDareYouAskMyName@reddit
I didn't say it was "the message" of the movie, but it is absolutely the premise of the movie. The whole setting is predicated on the idea that the wrong people were breeding faster then the right people, as explained in the opening of the movie.
Allaplgy@reddit
Nowhere in the movie does it say or imply only the "right" people should breed.
HowDareYouAskMyName@reddit
"stupid people breed more frequently than smart people and human society suffers greatly as a result".
Tell me which part of this statement is NOT fundamental to the premise of the movie
Allaplgy@reddit
All of that is fundamental to the movie. Tell me which part says that only the right people should be allowed to breed?
HowDareYouAskMyName@reddit
Yes...? Like I said, it's the premise of the movie
I already answered that, and you said it was fundamental to the movie. Remember? You just typed it
Allaplgy@reddit
Where in this statement does it say anyone should not be allowed to breed.
Millkstake@reddit
They don't understand the concept of satire
Allaplgy@reddit
Already blocked by someone for simply disagreeing over this. 😅
Psycosteve10mm@reddit
Racists also hate it for the end as well.
gimmedatvoice@reddit
It was too optimistic. In Idiocracy the dumb people in charge recognized the smartest guy among them, and wanted to put him in charge instead.
HowDareYouAskMyName@reddit
Upvotes to the left
HeightExtra320@reddit
Current state*
ZombyAnna@reddit
I think we are more here... President Camacho knows when to leave it to smart people... not Biff...
mhyquel@reddit
I'd take a president that assembles a team of the most qualified people in the country to solve a problem that is existential to his nation. When the recommendations go against the interests of the mega corporations, he still implements them.
FungiStudent@reddit
Yeah, here we are wishing we had the president from Idiocracy. Goddamit so hard.
TheDevil-YouKnow@reddit
I rail about this to my wife constantly. Maybe whine is a better word. Our country is so fucked that the bottom barrel step away from convict was still too optimistic of a take for the Presidential candidate that reigns such a society.
I guess our only hope is out of the depths of stupidity, we find ourselves an Octavion.
eggs_erroneous@reddit
I have always assumed that somebody who would actually make a decision like that would never be allowed anywhere close to the presidency. That's why Bernie never had a shot. Yeah, the voters pick the winner, but the real power gets to pick the candidates. Real power always wells up in places that is untouchable to the voters.
jamescb819@reddit
Have you ever listened to Mike Judge talk about his reasoning for choosing Crocs (which were virtually unknown at the time) as the footwear for everyone in the movie? And now there’s so many people wearing them unaware of the humor in it.
Slim_Margins1999@reddit
Ow my balls
bionicjoe@reddit
Clerks - "I'm a loser and won't do anything about it."
Office Space - "I'm a loser and I'm going to do something stupid to get a bigger piece of what I hate."
Matrix - "I'm not really a loser. I'm the chosen one and everyone else is sheep."
Fight Club - "I'm a loser, and it's driven me crazy."
Ethos - "I'm really just a loser."
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
Whats your take on American Beauty?
As I remember the firing scene to epitomise a similar mentality to fight club and the not caring about being fired
WhoDatNinja30@reddit
Now in 2026, the most incredible part of the movie was that he was able to get another job so quickly.
mhyquel@reddit
It's a film about trash being blown around in the wind. And instead of trying to make things better, the characters indulge. There is not one redeeming character in that film, and I didn't understand it at the time. American Beauty is shallow and self-serving.
FungiStudent@reddit
Thanks for helping me understand how I feel about this movie.
Puzzleheaded_Hatter@reddit
Naw. It's about the struggle against and the ownership of.
MurrayGrande@reddit
Soy un perdedor....
umbridledfool@reddit
....baby, so why don't you kill me?
sleepyj910@reddit
My time is a piece of wax, that's fallen on a termite, that's choking on the splinters
jaymzx0@reddit
(drive-by-body-pierce)
ArchitectVandelay@reddit
I always wondered why I could never make out what he was saying there. Thank you for reverse gaslighting me because it’s not even English.
philanthropicide@reddit
Soy un perdidor
blamberr@reddit
Office Space really contributed to me having this general outlook
AdTop3924@reddit (OP)
Office Space is an all time favorite of mine. I quote it all the time, especially — the pleasure’s all on this side of the table! I say that all the time and it’s rare that someone offline gets the reference, tragically
ArchitectVandelay@reddit
If you worked where I worked
https://i.redd.it/27v87mw0tswg1.gif
blamberr@reddit
No…no, man…shit no.
umbridledfool@reddit
Two chicks at the same time. *dead serious stare.*
Cassius_man@reddit
I don't talk to my neighbour often but periodically I feel the urge to say "dammit lawerence, can't you just pretend like we can't hear each other through the wall"
I've yet to answer the call of the void but the urge persists
Combatical@reddit
I think this movie genuinely ruined me.
blamberr@reddit
I work at a data company, and I worked at TGI Fridays in college. No movie has ever spoke more to me than this one did and continues to do
Combatical@reddit
I somehow made it worse for myself by taking a job with the government. Bureaucracy has driven me mad. But in a low cost of living area it's the only place that will provide a pension.
blamberr@reddit
That blows. My husband is in government, so I’m familiar with some of the shittiness.
Combatical@reddit
I appreciate the commiseration. This is the best sub on reddit. At the very least we can identify with one another.
blamberr@reddit
Same. I really appreciate a few of my subs, especially this one. Some annoy me though…
Ghia149@reddit
We had the same printer model at work… at least once a week I busted out “PC load letter… what the hell does that even mean?”
blamberr@reddit
I also experienced that ongoing issue at my college internship. They expected me to fix it and I never could
Interesting-Stay297@reddit
That's ok, you can always get hired at positions of Construction Worker Lite (casually throw some rubble into a wheelbarrow, not the backbreaking work kind) to preserve your dignity and pay your bills, and save up for 2 Chicks At Once.
BossRoss84@reddit
BatmansUnderoos@reddit
I can read my kindle on my desktop computer at work. I look busy all day long but really I'm just reading about what crazy nonsense Carl and Donut are up to.
bgc0197@reddit
Patiently waiting for the next book!
Crash217@reddit
I put a tiny shelf on my monitor for my phone, I binge watch shows and movies all day while waiting on information to pop into my inbox so I can populate my tps reports with it.
blamberr@reddit
brayellison@reddit
If someone at work says I missed a meeting, my response is normally, "I wouldn't say I missed it."
blamberr@reddit
I often have the opportunity to bust out, “What would you say…you do here?”
goofytigre@reddit
I have that job. When people ask what I do, I always tell them, "I deal with the Customer so the engineers don't have to! I have people skills!! I'm good at dealing with people!!!"
Ghia149@reddit
This is also my job, and also my response.
blamberr@reddit
Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people???
aww-hell@reddit
Renting this and fight club in the same weekend changed me.
BuckManscape@reddit
Oh I wouldn’t say I’m MISSING it, Bobs.
FungiStudent@reddit
Vendetta81@reddit
Fight club - I'm a loser dying of cancer and through a series of unreliable narration and identity linked metaphors disguised as characters I'm going to confront my fears of lost masculinity/lost balls, alienation under capitalism, and lack of healthy relationship with my father.
Capn26@reddit
Soy yo perdidor.
massunderestmated@reddit
American Beauty: I'm a loser and I want to bang an underage girl and smoke pot with an underage boy.
thebookofswindles@reddit
Falling Down: I’m a loser and I’m losing my shit
Dude_man79@reddit
First half of Falling Down: I identify with this loser.
Second half of Falling Down: oh my, this man is fucking insane!
dust4ngel@reddit
"i'm a loser, but it's because of corporations, the government, women, the poor, the rich, brown people and also somehow... white supremacists."
foreordinator@reddit
Good ol’ D-Fens always did had a bit of a screw loose, when things went pear shaped for him, the screw came all the way out!
legal_bagel@reddit
I rewatched this not long ago. The "bad" areas he's in are mostly gentrified now, although the unhoused are still living in front of the now million dollar+ LA homes.
hamsterballzz@reddit
I don’t believe that’s what American Beauty was getting at. The idea was living the pseudo reality of American suburban life is soul crushing. Lester doesn’t really want to sleep with his daughter’s friend. He realises it at the last moment. All of his actions are a reaction to his life having no meaning or fulfilment. He’s pining for his youth and attempting to recreate it until he eventually understands that there is beauty in who he is and what he’s done. His wife is also trapped but oblivious to the damage she’s causing trying to fit into the world around her. Lester’s daughter and the neighbor boy are able to recognise the absurdity of the world around them because they haven’t lived through enough life to be trapped by it themselves yet. American Beauty attempts to cover so many points about life in suburbia but now days all anyone sees is the two minute sex scene. And of course it’s Kevin Spacey in that scene which doesn’t help.
massunderestmated@reddit
Yeah, I know, but I felt like being snarky.
an_harmonica@reddit
That part certainly hasn't changed, it's why MAGA and MAGA adjacent things have grown so powerful. They elevated the ultimate loser with a power fantasy.
MartyFreeze@reddit
I agree. It's one thing to be unhappy and frustrated by the world but they're not taking a moment to understand their feelings, why they're feeling them and what's a solution.
Instead, it's the quick fix of blaming someone else and enjoying that quick hit of dopamine.
Inevitable-While-577@reddit
American History X: I'm a loser and I blame the immigrants.
smallwonkydachshund@reddit
Man, the matrix really did spawn a terrible trope of individuals with the red pill shit. The irony of it being made by trans sisters is pretty great though.
ratpH1nk@reddit
HowDareYouAskMyName@reddit
Idiocracy - "we should sterilize dumb people, and I definitely am not one of them"
Tylerdurden389@reddit
Office Space - I hate being part of the system, so I'm not gonna go to work anymore.
American Beauty - I hate being part of the system, so I'm gonna quit this stressful job and do something thats a lot easier.
Fight Club - I hate being part of the system so I'm gonna blackmail my boss so I can work from home until I try to destroy the system itself by recruiting others to join me.
The Matrix - I hate being part of the system, so I'm gonna literally unplug from it.
Roderto@reddit
I’mnot part of your system! I’m an adult!!
Tylerdurden389@reddit
ftsapr@reddit
What up quaid!
AloneGunman@reddit
You left out American Beauty - "I'm a loser who is psychologically regressing and creeping on my teen daughter's best friend."
BasvanS@reddit
Trainspotting - "I'm a loser, but at least I chose it."
FuckYouNotHappening@reddit
Soooooooooooooy un perdedor!!!
G-Unit11111@reddit
Clerks - Am I so out of touch? No it's the customers who are the problem.
Office Space - Am I so out of touch? No, it's my employers who are the problem.
Matrix - Am I so out of touch? No, it's the human condition of just being that is the problem.
Fight Club - Am I so out of touch? No, it's consumerism that is the problem.
Cautious_Artichoke_3@reddit
I'm a loser, baby
So why don't you shoot me?
shponglespore@reddit
I think the ethos they were going for is that we live in a world that tries is best to turn us all into losers.
munchonsomegrindage@reddit
Idiocracy - "All the losers have reproduced at way too high of a rate"
Tasty-Property-434@reddit
And point break!
Repulsive_Set_4155@reddit
I agree with everything but Clerks.
All the other films are about being part of a really comfortable middle class white American demographic during a high water mark of comfort and treat-access for that group of young Boomers/old GenX, and being so irritated that you no longer find yourself interesting that you want to stick it to the man (who is paying you handsomely) by making life needlessly difficult for as many people are possible.
American Beauty is maybe a better substitution, thought that's way more explicitly Boomer coded, and it's a "small" rebellion.
Clerks is about people who are comfortable with the kind of discomfort they steep in. Manbaby goofing around and whining after being forced to work a shift during summer break, forever. The characters in all the other movies want to upend the system; the guys in Clerks want the system intact and easy to bitch about. It's the dream life they won't allow themselves to admit they want and have.
I just want to point out that I'm not really talking shit about any of those movies (I love them all) but they're the toyetic fantasies of the terminally pampered, and that wasn't my impression until I got a little older. When I was younger they were the kind of shallow breath of fresh air I thought meant more than just about any other kind of statement.
Repulsive_Set_4155@reddit
The Matrix is a difficult one too, since the Wachowskis have stated it is a metaphor for accepting their identities as transwomen, which is valid, but also ultimately meaningless for a larger discussion about the general trend in the kind of movies Hollywood was releasing at the time, aimed primarily at young men, and what it means about where our heads were at. If it was "just" about transness, in 1999, it would have been a much smaller movie I caught at weird hours on IFC while sleeping over at my grandparents house. The Wachowskis are great, but they're also purveyors of (really well executed) immature entertainment. Them talking about gender and rebellion very often comes across like the notebook drawings of an ornery honors student in a boring high school class. It's ultimately shallowly radical- like reading something called "Kropotkin & The Simpsons: From Springfield to Liberation" in the back seat of your parents' minivan on the way to Disney World- because the creators are shallow radicals, and that's why Hollywood gave them all the money for a while; stylishly shallow radicalism does numbers in the summer because it feels great to immerse yourself in safe revolution, doubly so if it appears to bear an important message or signifiers of intelligence that you can take with you and present as your own into the normal world without actually radicalizing.
anjowoq@reddit
I don't necessarily agree with the amount of time I have thought about it so far, but I appreciate the different perspective, especially the idea that they want to maintain the work hellscape because bitching about it is important. Makes me think crappy work somehow completes them despite their insistence on rebelling.
Your take makes me think of Fight Club even more though. In order to be men, they need adversaries in the fighting circle and in the society around them. Rebelling have a generation of self-labeled losers an identity.
Repulsive_Set_4155@reddit
I meant Clerks was the one where they enjoy bitching and don't really want things to change overmuch because, regardless of their faith or lack thereof, those dorks are some grim slacker predetermination loving motherfuckers (which I think is part of the point? It's been a while, but I'd swear in an interview Kevin Smith said all the friends he grew up with basically told him his dreams were stupid, so Clerks is maybe a loving portrayal of the kind of person who doesn't just think- but secretly enjoys- the idea of being a hopeless peasant, Clerks 2 is about the peasant discovering he can seize the means of peasanting... and I don't know what Clerks 3 is about because the last time I made it all the way through a new Kevin Smith movie was Yoga Hosers and the psychic wounds still haven't healed)
The movie Fight Club is interesting because you have a generation of materially comfortable men in an era way past the more overtly adversarial second wave feminism (that happened while they were kids and probably nowhere near them) who still feel pressure from women, not because women are actively demeaning or denying their identity, but because the GenX Holden Caulfield knee-jerk dismissal of "phony" identity has left unstructured beings who mistake lassitude that grew from passive denial and self-directed pleasure seeking behavior, for emasculation at the hands of a womanly society. Any woman asking for anything is like a mom saying to a baby "Ok, now it's my turn. You breastfeed me." <-it's not just demeaning; it's impossible. Any woman who even jokingly points out their sad sack condition is like a mom saying "You have no penis. Your father added your penis to the collective girth of his penis and left." A man with authority in their world of comfort who gives them any kind of instruction is an even more emasculated baby pretending to be mommy. They're starting from first principles, from the assumption that a core element of manhood is voluntarily hurting others and voluntarily being hurt- a model springing from a basic misunderstanding of how a core element of being human is suffering and, finding inspiration in suffering, using pattern recognition and collective effort to create systems which minimize future suffering and occasionally encourages violent threats or acts to maintain the system against competing entities- and from that flows a model for society where intimate ritualized violence (the titular Fight Club) is the seed from which a bloody tree of not so much stochastic terrorism, but rather nihilistic stochastic celebration (an untenable new world order where unpredictable large scale violence could erupt at any time, not as a tool to extort results from an unwilling party, but as the thing of inherent value itself) grows.
None of that has anything to do with the age we're living in now, definitely not. I don't know why you said that. You definitely said that, not me. I gotta go...
Rare-Extension-6023@reddit
yea u havent read fight club obv
Repulsive_Set_4155@reddit
I wasn't talking about the book though, unless you meant "read" as in film analysis. In which case, I did, but it's cool to disagree on interpretation.
grey_skies1@reddit
Very interesting take
Repulsive_Set_4155@reddit
Thank you!
wolfdickspeedstache@reddit
Clerks - I’m not even supposed to be here
Office Space - I’m supposed to be there, but I’m not coming in
Matrix - What is “here”?
Fight Club - Was I already here?
kteerin@reddit
This is perfect. You win!
Pittman247@reddit
I don’t know if you made this, but it’s 👌🏾
wolfdickspeedstache@reddit
Ha, thanks! Good to know that I still have some wit left in the tank
RickyMortar@reddit
I have a firm belief that Fight club and office space are two sides of the same coin. The dichotomy of man. One takes the way of the Monk and the other takes the way of the warrior.
They started in a similar situation and chose different paths of escape. The perfect box set.
bionicjoe@reddit
Peter didn't escape in Office Space. He got lucky.
Had his plan went through he would've gone to prison.
He wanted to be rich and have a hot girlfriend, but he wasn't willing to put up with the corporate crap it took to become rich. And then he was a judgmental prick towards his hot girlfriend.
He got let off the hook, and then decided to go into another field.
VonBrewskie@reddit
It's sort of the height of irony that the "red pilled" community utterly missed that entire point. They got to the rabbit hole and decided to become pimps. (Sold as Alpha Male^TM)
Starwaverraver@reddit
How is it then getting over themselves?
It's now to do with ego, it's that what you mean. Letting go and finding more to life than buying a faster car.
whereismymind86@reddit
also, how capitalism makes us all insane (not the matrix, but the other 3)
djseifer@reddit
The problem with Fight Club is too many guys miss the actual message of Fight Club and think the fighting part is cool.
Evocatorum@reddit
While there is some truth to what you said, you seriously missed the main message.
Go back and rewatch it, then ask yourself, "What kind of dining set defines you as a person."
The movie is primarily about Consumer Capitalism.
Fallsfrostdew@reddit
I just finished DS9 less than 20 minutes ago. I hopped on Reddit to look at some Star Trek subs because I am now sad and I come across you with your user name here in Xennial sub. The prophets sure have their ways.
MaracujaBarracuda@reddit
I think American Psycho kinda fits in this too.
mrheh@reddit
"It's about guys needing to get over themselves, in order to become their true selves." This is possible the worst take I have ever heard in my life.
nakedcellist@reddit
Also Requiem for a dream
-B_E_v_oL_23-@reddit
Clerks reminds me of a bunch of Abbott and Costello bits. They play off of Plato's theory of the chariot rider where one horse looks out, a white one. And one horse that looks within, the black horse.
WLH7M@reddit
Yoink
JHerbY2K@reddit
Also American Beauty. Lots of “middle class white guy is disillusioned” in 1999
AtFishCat@reddit
They are all stories about what could happen if we continued on the course society was on, and guess what!
Fly-by-Night-@reddit
12 Monkeys too.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
Idiocracy is looking more and more where we are headed, alongside "Fortress"
impactblue5@reddit
Give it time and Blade Runner will be a documentary
CharonNixHydra@reddit
The baffling thing about this era of film is the target audience (late 90s early to mid career white collar workers) are basically the bulk of the MAGA movement.
HappyChilmore@reddit
blamberr@reddit
This is Bob, Bob has bitch tits
I’ve used that phrase ever since
Ganson@reddit
His name was Robert Paulson.
blamberr@reddit
Bob loved me because he thought my testicles were removed too
HappyChilmore@reddit
Between those huge sweating tits that hung enormous, the way you'd think of God's as big.
Icy-Lifeguard-6206@reddit
I think it's more relevant, but also, people who don't understand that the movie is MOCKING toxic masculinity will absolutely celebrate it even harder, which is a problem
HappyChilmore@reddit
Chuck Palahniuk had the idea after he was in a fight at some camp. He thought people looked at him differently with a bruised face. He did not write Fight Club with any intent to mock toxic masculinity. Neither did the movie makers. You're projecting your own desires.
Starwaverraver@reddit
I don't think it's mocking toxic masculinity, it's more obviously way more nuanced than that.
It's the struggle of bragging free of ego and letting go completely.
It has nothing to do with make toxicity, unless that's part of what they're trying to break free from.
2d6DoomedWizards@reddit
A bunch of white guys are so mad "things aren't like they used to be" that they fall into a nihilistic cult-of-personality bent on tearing society down. Yeah, totally not relevant to today.
Starwaverraver@reddit
So you didn't relate to letting go of egoiam, consumerism, or alienation, you just saw "violence and hate"?
2d6DoomedWizards@reddit
I saw it as the head of a cult-of-personality using those things to manipulate stupid people into something evil and dumb, yes.
gravityhomer@reddit
100% more relevant than ever
ButterscotchAware402@reddit
I still adore this movie but not like I used to. The writings of Chuck Palahniuk are most definitely more relevant than ever. Survivor, Fight Club, Pygmy. He was on to something for sure.
HotTubSexVirgin22@reddit
His recent stuff is dark. Not bad. Just daarrkkkkk. “Not Forever, But for Now” might be the most fucked book I’ve ever read and I’m a Cormac McCarthy fan.
Phoniceau@reddit
I have ready every single Palahniuk book and been a fan since ~2000, but ‘Not Forever, But for Now’ was awful unfortunately and I could not get in to its style. Blah.
WithaK19@reddit
I stopped reading his books after Snuff. I loved Rant, though
HappyChilmore@reddit
Rant
YEM_PGH@reddit
I'd add Invisible Monsters and Choke by him to your reading list if you liked what you listed above. Diary was also decent.
max_power1000@reddit
Invisible Monsters has always been my favorite of his works.
ElliotNess@reddit
What did you think about the invisible monsters remix?
YEM_PGH@reddit
Haven't heard of it, I'll have to check it out since it's been forever since I read the original.
ButterscotchAware402@reddit
I've read everything he's written. Invisible Monsters is my favorite. I wish the film adaptation of Choke was better. Such a great book and Sam Rockwell is just the best.
YEM_PGH@reddit
Rockwell hive unite.
toddriffic@reddit
Same! Just finished invention of sound a few months ago, too. Pretty confused by the ending but enjoyed it...
Have you read invisible monsters remix? Wondering if it's worth it. IM was definitely my favorite.
Frisnism@reddit
I really hope someone takes on invisible monsters one day in film and does a good job with. It’s my favorite of his as well.
blamberr@reddit
I’m looking for some new reading. These are under active consideration
limedifficult@reddit
Choke was a wild trip.
thedeepfake@reddit
Around the world baby 😅
a-ha_partridge@reddit
Choke is my favorite of his. Also really enjoyed Haunted even though it was… odd.
ShadowOfTheBean@reddit
Haunted.
Had the glow in the dark paperback and lent it out to a lot of people but always forgot to warn them.
People still bring up that shit, both the freakout from the ghost cover and the stories; "Guts" especially.
esk726@reddit
Guts is…whoa. Just don’t even know how else to describe it.
AuroraMortalis@reddit
I saw him read it live on a book tour and 3 people passed out. It made me feel pretty light headed myself. He explained after the reading that this was a common phenomenon on the tour.
brainvheart143@reddit
That’s so cool. What validation for a writer! But they like actually passed out??
a-ha_partridge@reddit
Think about every time I go swimming still.
blamberr@reddit
Did you like the fight club novel? I was obsessed with the movie, but I couldn’t get into the book in the slightest. Normally books are better than the movies, I didn’t think so at all here
granadesnhorseshoes@reddit
Neither does Chuck. He's admitted he thinks the movie is better.
blamberr@reddit
Interesting. Glad he’s a good sport about it and recognizes the brilliant job they did with the source material
Cooper_Sharpy@reddit
It’s Fincher…. He doesn’t really make bad films
blamberr@reddit
This is true. I’d either want him or John Waters to direct the movie of my life story. Two suuuuuuuuuper different vibes for the studio to choose from
totallynottoddoracop@reddit
Why not both? Have Waters direct half and Fincher direct the other half.
blamberr@reddit
Nice. Fincher doing the second half is an absolute must
FoppyRETURNS@reddit
The book is... sloppy. Something meant to be banging around and getting torn up in your backpack, reading between classes. Kinda like a clockwork orange with brain damage.
An interesting read as an adult. Lol
blamberr@reddit
That was my exact experience reading it in college! I still have it and it’s in extremely used condition
yeuzinips@reddit
Omg I loved Survivor
TheOriginalSamBell@reddit
What I enjoyed in the novel after already having watched the movie and known the twist is how the book pretty much literally spells it out from the very beginning but it works.
Final-Entertainer807@reddit
I'll never forget the ending to Survivor. It's one of those times where a book seared a scene into my brain.
MyBurnerAccount1977@reddit
I gave up on his stuff after Haunted and Snuff. It just felt like he was going for maximum shock value and it just became off-putting.
Rahawk02@reddit
you said was made me think he died but I looked it up and he's still writing. Might check out his latest book when I have time.
Ok_Acanthisitta2025@reddit
Since it's a scathing indictment of fragile toxic masculinity. Yes,still relevant.
eufooted@reddit
“I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise.” “The things you own, and you owning you.” “As I pass, do I give you the ass or the crotch?” “I felt like destroying something beautiful.”
Quotes I still think about or carry with me.
Phoniceau@reddit
“I haven’t been fucked like that since grade school”
HappyChilmore@reddit
It's a shame "i wanna have your abortion" never made it into the movie.
blamberr@reddit
AdTop3924@reddit (OP)
The ass or crotch thing has always landed for me
I always fly in the window seat, so this issue comes up a lot for me, and I always think about the movie, and I end up giving them the ass to avoid weird eye contact.
FungiStudent@reddit
Give em the Ole ass
onemanclic@reddit
"Self improvement is masturbation; now self-destruction..."
stykface@reddit
I don't know about "relevant", not sure I follow there. But the movie, if released today, would absolutely still hold up.
Overall_Falcon_8526@reddit
It "holds up" in that it is challenging, well done art. I have complicated feelings about it and its legacy. But it made me think and have feelings about it, which so many movies these days do not.
I think people like me tend to justify this movie's excesses and fascistic overtones by labeling it "satire," but at the end of the day I don't know that its message is terribly clear. Consumerism is bad and makes us numb and crazy. Sure, I can agree with that. But what precisely is it advocating for its characters? Some sort of Hobbesian state of nature (solitary, nasty, brutish, and short)? Wearing leather clothes that will last us our whole lives? A generation of men not raised by their mothers?
Tonio775@reddit
help! help! I'm bein repressed!!
cheerful_cynic@reddit
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!!
Tonio775@reddit
bloody peasant!!
Overall_Falcon_8526@reddit
onemanclic@reddit
It is advocating for revolution.
That the system is bunk, built to oppress, individuals need to work on themselves, and the people need to collectively overthrow the machinery.
Pretty clear message to me.
Overall_Falcon_8526@reddit
If the "revolution" looks like Project Meyhem, no thanks.
onemanclic@reddit
What would you like "revolution" to look like?
Overall_Falcon_8526@reddit
I'd prefer it without the domestic terrorism (and the attendant loss of life), and without violent indoctrination and cult-like tendencies (removing identity, dehumanization).
oedipa17@reddit
I agree. It does a great job illuminating social problems, but falls short of offering solutions.
I think part of the answer lies in authentic human connection, compassion, and vulnerability - which we see glimmers of in the film, but not enough for me to confidently say that’s what the movie is about.
onemanclic@reddit
The solution was pretty clear: wipe out the debt record and reset everything.
This is a class warfare movie at the end of the day.
Technical_Hawk_2964@reddit
The generation of men raised by their mothers thing is saying they weren't raised by their fathers. They don't have a positive male role model or community to show them how to express whatever it is that makes them men in a positive way. All they have is consumerism and loneliness and that is dangerous. It might look dumb and harmless at first but it could evolve into something more sinister. That is what the entire book is about and it's way more relevant now. We have literally been watching this happen to society since covid.
Project mayhem is a bad thing. The whole thing starts to unravel when people start to get hurt. It's not like he ends the movie with another fightclub started up somewhere. It literally ends with the beginning of a relationship with a woman and an obvious rejection of everything that Tyler represented. He literally shoots himself to get rid of Tyler and end project mayhem.
YourOwnPunkyBrewster@reddit
😂that’s all anarcho-syndicalism commune makes me think of
graveybrains@reddit
It's up there with Falling Down and Starship Troopers for number of viewers who missed the point
cortesoft@reddit
And now The Boys is carrying on that tradition.
Overall_Falcon_8526@reddit
And its spiritual predecessor, Watchmen :-)
jaeldi@reddit
The criticisms in the movie are VERY valid.
The solutions in the movie to those criticisms are invalid, they swing too far into the opposite extreme.
"Good" is a relative point of view. The criticism of consumerism, lack of identity/meaning/purpose/connection in daily life, and the unethical greed of the business class in society are all really good. The solution to blow it all up and live like cavemen again is not good but was entertaining to watch.
The "multiple personality" was just over the top symbolism that internally we all struggle for purpose, meaning, identity, and connection. That's the 'fight' we should be talking about. It doesn't have to be a fight, but it is a struggle. A struggle we don't have to do alone.
Prudent-Session985@reddit
Fight Club is pretty explicitly about males being raised in the modern world. "A generation of men raised by women" is about as direct as it can be.
Consumerism is part of it but it's a lot more about how men define themselves in the world. In a generation the things that men defined themselves with went away or were drastically reduced.
It's a cautionary tale about what has replaced those things. Consumerism is one of those things but it's a small part of the story.
Necessary-Duty-7952@reddit
It can be both things. Consumerism, sensationalist media, etc can strip us of meaning and identity. But in the void that it creates, be careful to not fill it with toxic ideas in the pursuit of meaning. The protagonist ends up regretting everything by the end and desperately tries to put a stop to it once he realizes he fell victim to a different, but even more destructive ideology.
forever_erratic@reddit
The author prefers the movie version, which is definitely more spectacular, but I prefer the book version, where nothing is blown up and Durdin fails. Having him "win" along that axis in the movie I think changed the message significantly.
sohcgt96@reddit
Side note on the art part, I'm no filmography nerd, but man did they do a killer job of establishing and sticking to a certain visual style with the film. It just has a look.
Same with Office space. Newer suburbia. Chain restaurants. Grey cube walls. Everyone wearing muted colors. Its full of blue skies and sunshine while also dreary and unsatisfying, just like their jobs.
sofaraway10@reddit
That’s David Fincher’s style from that period. He’s evolved it a bit since then, but IMO, Fight Club is where he takes it to the most extreme (in a good way). Others from him with the similar look would be The Game, Panic Room, and Se7en.
sohcgt96@reddit
You know what... Its been a long time but I have seen Panic Room and Se7en and now that you mention it, I can see the parallels. Thanks for pointing that out!
hbi2k@reddit
I would say that what it advocates for isn't so much a particular political or economic system or theory, but simple human connection.
All that "leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life" talk was Tyler, but Tyler is the villain that the nameless protagonist has to overcome. We're not meant to agree with him.
The thing that breaks the protagonist out of Tyler's charismatic hold was the death of Bob, his friend. And at the end, when he reintegrates his split personality, the first thing he does is hold Marla's hand.
The film's critique of capitalism / consumerism is real, but it's not holding up nihilism / fascism as a solution, but as another danger, and meaningful human connection as the only thing that can protect us from it.
marrklarr@reddit
Well said. And even if we want to view it as satire, it still matters that one or two generations of shitheads take it literally.
Super_Direction498@reddit
I don't know that it's advocating for anything, but I think it's might be suggesting that there's a connection between violence and a life devoid of real meaning or community.
Girth_Brooks_1969@reddit
At a time when male loneliness, consumerism as a solution to lack of purpose or meaning in life, violence and instability are at an all time high? This movie has never been more relevant.
LastEconPoet@reddit
Extremely holds up.
Tron6000@reddit
Aside from the anti-consumerism theme, there is a deep theme about coming to terms with one’s sexuality (ie Jack is gay). Read some commentary on the movie/book and you will see that there are even deeper levels to it.
NW_Forester@reddit
The themes hold up great today. The problem is aesthetically the movie is confusing. Tyler Durden is often viewed as a masculine roll model rather than a cautionary tale of toxic masculinity. I think the problem is most people don't understand satire unless it is something they are already really familiar with or just media savvy in general. So the result is Tyler is the wish fulfillment of power, control, self certainty instead of being chaos, self destructive, a broken personality.
Basically if you have ever considered the movie through a critical lens is holds up. When viewed as just entertainment, it gives some young men in particular the worst message possible.
max_power1000@reddit
I don't get how people miss this, he straight up says this in the movie. "All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I fuck like you wanna fuck, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not."
Or at least they're taking the wrong things away from it.
FoppyRETURNS@reddit
Satire is alien post-2008
Tylerdurden389@reddit
"I look like you wanna look...."
Hatecookie@reddit
Still relevant. It’s hard to describe, but that movie has such a pre-9/11 feeling. It’s like… we thought we had so much to rebel against back then. How naive we were, in hindsight. Feels like mere teenage angst compared to the deep well of resentments we carry now.
AdjunctFunktopus@reddit
The whole point was not having a significant thing to rebel against.
“We’re the middle children of history”
“Our Great Depression is our lives”
“How much can you possibly know about yourself if you’ve never been in a fight”
We didn’t have a major struggle and instead were forced to struggle against mediocrity. But then 9/11 happened. And everything since then. Probably still a struggle against mediocrity but with less of a veneer that covered things before.
max_power1000@reddit
The whole point was nihilism and self-actualization.
Without the threat of annihilation from the USSR, we had become too comfortable, too corporate, and too consumerist. We got soft and lacked purpose.
saisonmaison@reddit
Agree / disagree. The entire point that George W and the entire power class pushed after 9/11 was to keep shopping. It was even more important than ever to keep shopping and act like nothing was different…and be okay with a surveillance state. There’s more than ever to rebel against post-‘01, but people have largely been brainwashed into accepting whatever the power class wants for us to be the norm.
nnulll@reddit
It’s more like consumerism leading to all the shit that has happened. If we had rebelled then… would now have happened?
SemataryPolka@reddit
I remember thinking after 9/11 the building exploding scene would never have been allowed
AdTop3924@reddit (OP)
Definitely not for quite a while after 9/11. Enough time has passed that you could do it today though
MayaIngenue@reddit
Except, with today's cloud infrastructure, it would be pointless to believe that dropping some buildings would be enough to erase everyone's credit.
BigConstruction4247@reddit
Mr Robot has entered the chat.
Skittleavix@reddit
Tbf there was a shit ton to rebel against pre-9/11. Even more so now.
Hatecookie@reddit
There was real injustice then, too, but I would love to go back to the time when the big scandal in the White House was a blow job, know what I mean?
Rare-Extension-6023@reddit
that we knew of
Hatecookie@reddit
Right. The curtain got pulled back on a lot of things.
2d6DoomedWizards@reddit
Fight Club is a satire that mocks the "rebels" the entire time (though this wooooshes over the heads of the type of people who would think Tyler Durden is actually cool).
PhatBoyFlim@reddit
Which, judging by this thread, seems to be just about everyone.
Hot_Sentence_1264@reddit
Cobain would kill himself even harder now.
massunderestmated@reddit
I mean, that it is precisely what we should have been rebelling against all along. The system, the crushing debt, the consumerism, corrupt politicians, single-serving everything, an angry class of thankless laborers who will never get out of the shitter unless they find a way to take back their own power.
PeterGibbons316@reddit
It's the same teenage angst, but it was never outgrown and is carried through adulthood.
Super_Direction498@reddit
Sort of. All of the things that the movie was frustrated with are arguably more omnipresent now, maybe other than that now it's a slightly more welcoming world to gay men.
Hatecookie@reddit
I just remember how I felt watching it then versus now. Everything that has happened in the last 10 years. The Epstein shit makes me feel like I still had some innocence left I wasn’t even aware of. I love Fight Club, Palahniuk is one of my favorite authors.
grahsam@reddit
I do love this movie. My worry is that young men don't understand that this is commentary and not a How-To. Tyler Durden's criticism of modern society was on point, but his conclusions were deranged and misguided. He was a mentally ill person pushed over the edge. He isn't to be admired.
Hot_Welcome_Pants@reddit
Yea it think now more than ever with social media and the kinds of groups it creates, Fight Club is more relevant. The story is about a man who feel like he's wasting his life, playing it safe, and painting by numbers. He begins to question the point of everything and turns to violence for a release, and thus creating a violent club for people that feel the same way. But what he creates is this self fulfilling prophecy where the violence of the group he creates begins affecting the outer world until its completely out if his control. He abandoned the system only to find himself wrapped up in a worse, more violent system that in the end becomes very antagonistic towards him.
Now, image if he just took a pottery class. Like what if he just got good at pottery and open his own studio. He would've been much happier. He is Jack's sense of accomplishment.
Matt-J-McCormack@reddit
Even with stuff like The Boys out there this still stands head and shoulders over most media for misaimed fandoms. It’s shocking how badly so many people miss the point.
I loved it I was never a typical blokey bloke so a film looking at what is masculinity an what is its place is society really spoke to me. Then my contemporary’s would be all hur hurTyler Durden.
It has been horribly prophetic though. A generation of lost feeling young men have gravitated to their own Tyler Durden figures.
DoctorBendo@reddit
Where are these large swaths of people misunderstanding? I hear about them all the time on this site, but I hardly ever come across anyone who doesn’t get it. Fight Club, The Boys, American Psycho … they all seem really well understood by fans. Yet on Reddit, people insist some huge number of fans don’t understand.
I get it, your second paragraph of strawman makes clear that you think you’re special, and you need others to play foil to that, but your insecurity is beside the point. Where are these swaths?
Near as I can tell, about a third of it comes from insecure types like yourself who think pretending most people misunderstand basic things means you’re somehow deep and insightful and better than they are. But a much larger portion seems to come from people who cannot cope with the fact that others with whom they may disagree can also like the same movies.
You’ll notice it’s virtually always a claim made with respect to masculinity and/or conservatism. Especially The Boys. Reddit has a hard-on for imaginary lunkheads who don’t get it because they cannot cope with liking something a conservative also enjoys. So they make up a legion of lunkheads not getting it, because conservatives couldn’t possibly enjoy a silly comic book show. Yet conservative fans seem to have the same level of understanding as the liberals. It’s Reddit, so it may actually be true, but it’s like these people (and you, from the sound of it) are incapable of enjoying any media that might disagree with them and fail to understand that this shortcoming is not universal.
I get that our age group grew up in a time when every high school movie had lazily-written idiot jocks and cheeleaders versus the cool outsiders who didn’t fit in because they were just too sophisticated, but you realize that is fiction written largely by people who didn’t get over high school, right? These boogeymen are not real.
Funny how those you disagree with all misunderstand or are lost, as you put it. Not you, though, you carved your own destiny. It’s only them that were manipulated and duped. How could they not have been? If they weren’t, they’d so obviously have reached the same conclusions you did, right?
And there’s nothing wrong with people identifying with Durden. He’s id writ large and borne of a relatable frustration. Taken too far, sure, but when people identify with Thelma & Louise, or Magneto, or Django (the Foxx one, not the awesome Nero one), I don’t hear much caterwauling about media literacy or claims of some unsophisticated them misunderstanding. Nothing wrong with celebrating a cathartic character. Hell, half this site seems eager to blow Luigi Mangione, and those who make posts like yours rarely blink an eye. The criticism of liking characters who go too far is extremely selective, I find.
So get over yourself.
Matt-J-McCormack@reddit
https://medium.com/@anapilar.manzanares/when-satire-becomes-aspiration-the-misinterpretation-of-fight-club-cb7c5b86c8ea
https://lithub.com/everyone-misunderstands-the-point-of-fight-club/
https://collider.com/fight-club-explained/
And oh, look at this one…. Who is this little interview with.
https://medium.com/mel-magazine/a-conversation-with-chuck-palahniuk-the-author-of-fight-club-and-the-man-behind-tyler-durden-9098e9d031fa
🖕🏻
DoctorBendo@reddit
So I ask you to provide evidence for your claim, and you link articles that also fail to provide any evidence for their claim?
I’m well aware that your whinging is not unique. I asked for evidence of the “so many” people misunderstanding. Not one of those links even attempts to do so, each just insists it is true. Clickbait horseshit.
Show me this great misunderstanding actually exists, not that attention-seekers and clickbait articles like to pretend it does.
Matt-J-McCormack@reddit
So you didn’t read the articles.
Rare-Extension-6023@reddit
ok bot
AdjectiveNoun111@reddit
I think everyone misunderstands this movie.
It's not really about masculinity, or society, that's all just fluff and metaphor.
It's about individuation, the self desperately trying to know who and what it is. All the materialism, hatred, frustration, vanity, lust e.t.c is just a distraction concealing the truth about the self.
Happiness and fulfilment is only possible when all of that is stripped away, and finally the self accepts the inevitability of its own death.
Passing through death to be reborn into a new state of pure truth and honesty.
It's a deeply spiritual film, wrapped up in the visual style and social confusion of the late 90s.
People often talk about Fight Club alongside the Matrix, and is that just because they were great films that came out at the same time? Or is it because in some way they are telling the same story?
FungiStudent@reddit
CapitalElk1169@reddit
This and Starship Troopers are the 2 most misunderstood films of their time for sure
Emotional_News108@reddit
Full Metal Jacket must be up there. How many young men joined the military because of the door gunner? That scene wasn’t even subtle; Rafterman was visibly sickened by the act.
Allaplgy@reddit
I've definitely had some interesting/entertaining/disturbing conversations here with people who either totally don't get ST and think any claims of it being satire are retcons, or people who think they get it, but think it's "bad satire" because the aforementioned people exist and it doesn't convert fascists all on its own.
temporary311@reddit
Allaplgy@reddit
How have I not seen this quote on it. 😅
I've even had people tell me Paul himself "retconned" it himself when it wasn't as successful as he'd hoped.
MFDoooooooooooom@reddit
I was there in 97 in the theatre watching Starship Troopers. It was always satire, never been retconned. Those people are idiots.
RobotPreacher@reddit
I'm glad you mentioned Society, because to me that's the #1 thing this movie is a commentary on. Masculinity is second.
The point is that late-stage-capitalism has confused people so much that they don't even remember what the point is anymore. And buying doesn't satisfy you on the most basic human levels -- it drives you insane.
Insurance companies valuing money more than human life, single-serving friends not being actual friends at all. Buying soap to look beautiful when the soap was made from the excess of your excess.
The thesis of the film is that, in a world where everything is fake and nothing feels genuine, those driven insane by this will burn everything to the ground just to feel something real.
HomeOrificeSupplies@reddit
Yeah, that drives me crazy. Tyler was not the type of character anyone should model their life by. Did he have redeeming qualities? Maybe. And he held a mirror up to Edward Norton’s lead, which provided a necessary if destructive growth. It’s a cautionary tale, not a guide book for manhood.
forever_erratic@reddit
Yeah, and their Durden figures are makers of the machine the fictional one fought against.
Dangerous_Play_1151@reddit
"Self improvement is masturbation. Now self destruction..."
The timeless current of ego destruction and anti materialism bears emphasis in every generation. Fight Club presents this message perhaps more viscerally than any mainstream media I know of. Themes around financial control and the errors of capitalism and the credit economy are more pertinent now that they ever have been.
The androcentrism/misogyny and nebulous angst may be difficult for Gen Z to parse, but that doesn't make them irrelevant.
Pdxlater@reddit
It’s prophetic. In this movie, the lead is tired of working a corporate job where he has no free will and snaps. He goes on to form a band of men with no free will mindlessly following orders.
It foretold the rise of red pill influencers who grift a large following of disaffected men who can’t think for themselves.
Starwaverraver@reddit
A band of men with no free will is a stretch... They can leave any time they like. I don't see anyone forced into "staying around".
I think you're jumping to conclusions here.
Pdxlater@reddit
They follow orders mindlessly just like they did in their corporate jobs. Yes they have free will to leave but they left their old lives because of oppressive corporate structure. Ironically, their new life had an even more oppressive structure of conformity. (No questioning orders, no individual identity, mindlessly repeating rules) The author’s point is that this desire for conformity overrides the desire for freedom.
Rare-Extension-6023@reddit
yes, freedom vs conformity is the soul of the movie imo. its the human struggle from the beginning
Pdxlater@reddit
The gang/cult become the ultimate conformists. No identity. No independence. Just following orders.
Starwaverraver@reddit
Well yeah it's the hive mind, but the difference is, its for a greater purpose, unlike the mindless egotistical consumerism that lay before them for mindlessly working for corporate entities.
They had a purpose and were working towards something they all wanted.
That's not actually mindless. That's intentional. For a greater good.
Pdxlater@reddit
I think that misses the point. The individuals have lost all free will in exchange for conformity. In many ways they are worse off and have less freedom. They craved to be dominated and to be told what to do. That’s why I say it’s a direct parallel to modern “alpha males”.
Palahniuk is even on record to describe this. Disaffected men that lack purpose are susceptible and vulnerable to extreme ideologies. (The club) Losing everything makes them easy to reprogram. Tyler is meant to be a warning.
Starwaverraver@reddit
They haven't lost free will though. They can leave at any time. You're conflating things which aren't true.
They weren't "conforming" they joined a cause which engaged with the idea of challenging the notion of the status quo.
That having an aimless life isn't the only option.
If anything conformity happens when you follow the masses. This wasn't m was the opposite of following the masses. This was breaking free.
And actually it was increased freedom because they could interpret and enact whatever they do discerned as the correct action.
There were groups all over the country but they weren't under control, they were independent of each other.
It was autonomy.
It seems to have been twisted in some ways in the current masculinity. Where being anti woke has replaced being anti consumerism. Or they're trying to make it that way.
I think that the consumeristic lifestyle is void and does promote alienation.
This was the opposite of that. Comradery, unity and fighting against the ennui of following your capitalistic desires.
The things you own end up owning you.
Pdxlater@reddit
By definition they could leave their prior jobs whenever they wanted. They had that freedom. Again, the author stated that this was a warning of how the disaffected get driven into extremism. They left their jobs to join an extremist cult.
Starwaverraver@reddit
So you don't think there's a souless, pervasion in society.
That is basic I've against another, competing for jobs, money, wealth and status. Rather than community and unity.
We're basically pitted against each other...
It's Rome all over again "divide and conquer". I see divisive division all around.
Just accept the state and continue?
Pdxlater@reddit
Maybe I’m IKEA man and just don’t see it. We’re not “pitted” against each other. The gang/cult’s actions were extreme and killed people. That’s very extreme. Accepting and continuing is better.
ilrosewood@reddit
I had not watched this movie for years. Especially with all the toxicity in the real world associated with it - I had no desire to revisit it.
I was in the hospital and decided ok - why not. It’s been 15+ years since I watched it. I still liked it - it still has a unique story and great acting. And now I could see how listless 20 something boys get caught up in the superficial message of the movie. It shows me how much cynicism and nihilism can lead to a very bad place.
I also had to laugh at the exclusion of a woman’s voice from the movie other than Marla.
LoloVirginia@reddit
I dont know man, I get the protagonist struggle with his own identity, but I just cant relate as much with a man whos doing really really well financially, whos work isnt really that bad, who could do something meaningfull and constructive with his life yet he let himself to spiral into his own maddnes
Starwaverraver@reddit
Cause money isn't the answer everyone seems to be seeking?
I get it, money helps with the base layer of life.
But it doesn't bring meaning or connection.
LoloVirginia@reddit
But the movie makes a claim that living in a modern society with all its amenities stands in the way of finding a meaning in life, and that doest sit well with me.
Starwaverraver@reddit
I think we do secede to nesting instinct. Warmth, food, entertainment, but we give up our time, energy and autonomy to receive it.
So I do agree it's nice having these facilities, but at what cost.
LoloVirginia@reddit
Well the movie makes it seem that the cost is existential which i dont think is true at all.
But overall, I think that the Fight Club do make a great point showing the need of a person who is really grounded in reality to lift you up from your pit of delusions.
Starwaverraver@reddit
So we can't change the doors Soulless ennui We're contained in and we should just start a family, get a job and buy a house and just hope that's enough?
LoloVirginia@reddit
The reality is you cannot live assuming you will change the world. If you have a stable life with a loving family and thats not enough for you, then what will get you satisfied? The problem isnt really the world, isnt it? Even then, there are plenty of places in the world where having 9-5 job in a "soulless" city isnt really how things go.
Even the movie heavily implies that the goal of the whole Tyler Durdens plan wasnt "changing the world", rather the plan to blow up the banks came up as inevitable consequence of acquiring huge mass of followers that soon became to expect that something big is bound to happen.
Exciting-Argument-67@reddit
I thought it was a stupid movie to begin with, and judge anyone who thinks it's good. (More often than not they didn't get it, anyway, and think the Brad Pitt character was awesome.)
DJWGibson@reddit
I think the film holds up but it's less relevant.
It's a film about '90s male ennui and toxic masculinity with the loss of purpose.
"We’re the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual war…" This defines Generation X. In the decades since it launched there's been several wars. Multiple recessions. Several great causes and pushes for social change.
The struggles of Millennials and Zoomers are very different. The Gen X "struggle" for the soul seems less pressing when affording rent and health care and food are unobtainable. Some yuppie having an existential crisis and giving up their super expensive condo and high paying job to slum it in an abandoned house while making high priced artisanal soap doesn't resonate as much.
It's like Rent or Reality Bites where the primary concern is pretty white people not "selling out" or working for "the man" like being poor is a choice and avoiding a high paying job in your desired career is desirable.
It's a movie about the first generation raised by television. But the current generation has been raised by the internet. They have wholly different issues.
The first rule of '90s Fight Club is "don't talk about Fight Club." The first rule of '20s Fight Club would be "like and subscribe to the Fight Club channel. #FightClubChallenge."
Rare-Extension-6023@reddit
is this y millennials & gen Z conform so hard?
DJWGibson@reddit
I don’t think they conform so hard. They just don’t have the “rebel!!!!” attitude of GenX where they’re desperate to be defiant and no do what’s expected of them.
Quato815@reddit
How could it not hold up? It’s probably even more relevant today.
AdTop3924@reddit (OP)
It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything
sleepyj910@reddit
You are not your job, you're not how much money you have in the bank. You are not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet.
WishboneCrazy9289@reddit
You are not you’re fucking khakis
WayngoMango@reddit
"I’ve met God across his long walnut desk with his diplomas hanging on the wall behind him, and God asks me, “Why?” Why did I cause so much pain? Didn’t I realize that each of us is a sacred, unique snowflake of special unique specialness? Can’t I see how we’re all manifestations of love? I look at God behind his desk, taking notes on a pad, but God’s got this all wrong. We are not special. We are not crap or trash, either. We just are. We just are, and what happens just happens. And God says, “No, that’s not right.” Yeah. Well. Whatever. You can’t teach God anything."
AdTop3924@reddit (OP)
You are not your job
BoredAccountant@reddit
Yes, but all of that should be true even if you do have a successful a career, a couple mil in the bank, and a reliable daily driver. The point wasn't that you don't need those things, it's that they shouldn't be what defines you.
No_Report_4781@reddit
Mfer said the quiet writing parts out loud 😄
God I’m so old it hurt to write that
blamberr@reddit
I say never be complete. Stop being perfect. I say let's evolve, let the chips fall where they may
Kolslaw77@reddit
Sticking feathers up your ass doesn’t make you a chicken
harleyquinnsbutthole@reddit
*butt
ughyoujag@reddit
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else
403Verboten@reddit
Just add you are not the likes on your reel and boom, modernized
Bluedreamreaper@reddit
You’re not your fucking khakis
fednandlers@reddit
So many today men turning to a cult leader because they feel lost in society. So worried about appearing tough or “alpha.” The scene in the bus where Jack bumps into Tyler and they remark about the abs on a advertisement is spot on with that young dufus making the rounds about maxxing or whatever that dumb shit is.
icybowler3442@reddit
Yeah, but Tyler is the alpha that the lost boys in the movie followed. The self-described alphas, who maxlook or whatever, are the morons that boys follow in real life. The movie is about the allure of nihilism (a very genX thing), but Gen Z boys aren’t nihilists, they are just choosing a very weird and creepy ethos. It’s like they’re worshipping the cult of image.
fednandlers@reddit
yea, I agree. a delusional way of seeing the world. perhaps we are seeing some more fun about the effects of being raised on the internets.
Ditches-Vestiges1549@reddit
A refrigerator full of condiments...
jaeldi@reddit
I still find myself thinking "the shit you own, owns you" when cleaning house, combating clutter, and thinking about new purchases of anything. That anti-materialism message and the identity struggles of ALL the characters make it a timeless classic in my book. People will always struggle with identity and consumerism. Meaning and purpose in a modern world; no one is going to give it to you. You have to find it. That's what the story speaks to me.
The bullshit of "the formula" alone is so symbolically relevant to situatuons of the work place & unethical greed of the business class that society has struggled against for all time.
-Midnight_Marauder-@reddit
It was somewhat prophetic of what's happening with the "manosphere", MAGA movement etc. One of the points the movie was making was that in a society that allows men to feel unseen and undervalued these men become very susceptible to manipulation.
KoalaTHerb@reddit
Relevant, but I'm not sure "more" relevant. The mid to late 90s was pretty peak bro culture/angry young men against the system. Ya there's lots of crazy now, and it's a lot more apparent with internet/social media. But those times were extremely repressed rage and fight system. Just look at the popular music of the era. Korn, limp bizkit, offspring, system of a down and really all the heavy grunge stuff.
Still exists today, but damn was it like the MAIN thing of that time
No-Good-One-Shoe@reddit
Maybe not as mainstream, but I'm seeing hardcore scenes growing quite a bit these days.
KoalaTHerb@reddit
Are you actually seeing them in real life or seeing them online? Because in the 90s, they were like everywhere on the street. I think the online subcultures are more visible now, but idk if it's as accurate a representation of a common male on the street. In the 90s, you could walk around and see dozens of these people every single day on your commute
No-Good-One-Shoe@reddit
I acknowledged it's not as mainstream.
t_whocannotbenamed@reddit
Waaay more.
EditRemove@reddit
Smartphones ruin a lot of older movies but I think all the core concepts still apply to fight club.
GenghisConnieChung@reddit
Especially with Fight Club For Kids.
jaeldi@reddit
So that's what Chuck P looks like.
blamberr@reddit
Living for this
finite_decency@reddit
Lived happily ever after? Ahem…his name is Robert Paulson.
DegenGraded@reddit
eh, the book is good, the movie is alright and the fans are annoying as ever
FormidableMistress@reddit
I think the most romantic scene in all of cinema is the end of Fight Club when he reaches for her hand as everything is blowing up around them.
"You met me at a very strange time in my life."
I will die on this hill. Fight me.
Rare-Extension-6023@reddit
agree, its a love story in the book, and both start with how its all about meeting her.
Rare-Extension-6023@reddit
those were genX films. and they were about rebelling for true freedom, from self or capitalistic BS expectations put on them all from boomers & earlier.
nowdays, ppl just all conform to it...
IAmJacksRage@reddit
I thought we weren’t supposed to talk about this. Isn’t it the first rule??
Yeah it still holds up. Final answer.
Mabiki_1975@reddit
The problem with Fight Club is it was completely misinterpreted by an entire generation, partly because the movie changed the ending from the book to make it seem like a hero's tale. It was not.
Bellatrix_Shimmers@reddit
Read somewhere this is a red flag movie. I see it as the opposite. If you have seen it and quote it sometime randomly then I know you’re cool and we will get along. Excellent movie still as good today as it was in 99’!
spottydodgy@reddit
I made my wife watch this recently since she'd never seen it. When it got to the big reveal she turned to me and said "is that supposed to make this a good movie?"
I was devastated.
the_orange_baron@reddit
Time for a new wife
trikywoo@reddit
It's not really known as a couples movie...
onemanclic@reddit
Is this a masculine vs feminine thing? In my experience, most women don't seem to care for this movie.
SemataryPolka@reddit
94-99 was peak "oh shit I have a SPLIT PERSONALITY" era. It seemed novel at the time. Ironically the first one I remember was the court room movie with Edward Norton in like 94. Fuck... What was it called? Primal Fear? Was that it?
Tylerdurden389@reddit
Split personality in both films. Played a character with 2 very different outlooks on life in American History X. Played twin brothers with different lifestyles (blue collar cowboy republican vs. White collar City person democrat) in some movie no one remembers. Then played the incredible freaking hulk. Role he was born to play.
Then the dumbasses at marvel shitcanned him for....Mark ruffallo.
Inevitable-While-577@reddit
Did you change your user name just for this post?
Tylerdurden389@reddit
Jokes aside, I've wanted to change it for probably the last 8-10 years since this film began getting a completely different discourse thab what i rememberwhen i was a teen. Sadly, I don't think its possible. If you know how, please share (not being sarcastic here. Ive changed my other social media names on other platforms where it was easy to do so).
Inevitable-While-577@reddit
I'm afraid it's not possible, that's one of the things that suck about reddit. I still have my random words+number name looking like a stupid bot because I failed to set a user name right away, and apparently it can't be changed lateron (only on your profile, which is pointless).
YourOwnPunkyBrewster@reddit
Nope, Reddit makes it impossible, sadly. I had to start over because of it
blamberr@reddit
That scene in American History X will haunt me for a thousand years
thebookofswindles@reddit
Yep, Primal Fear also w Richard Gere
jaeldi@reddit
The criticisms in the movie are VERY valid.
The solutions in the movie to those criticisms are invalid, they swing too far into the opposite extreme.
"Good" is a relative point of view. The criticism of consumerism, lack of identity/meaning/purpose in daily life, and the unethical greed of the business class in society are all really good. The solution to blow it all up and live like cavemen again is not good but was entertaining to watch.
blamberr@reddit
That stings…
TwistedPepperCan@reddit
Fight club is one of those movies way too many people don’t get.
Tyler Durden was a warning and if enough people listened someone like Andrew Tate wouldn’t exist.
xeroid051@reddit
I watched it while packing for a trip recently. It's one of those movie you can't get bored of.
u4got2wipe@reddit
As a satire it holds up incredibly well. The problem is that the type of person or people it is satirizing see the film as a rallying cry. There is a certain type of ignorance that doesn’t see satire, that same ignorance is currently running the United States of America
Starwaverraver@reddit
How is it a satire?
I don't know how you can misinterpret this film so completely.
It's funny because you espouse people being ignorant, yet you seem to have no idea what the film was about.
You're accusing people of the very thing you're describing.
tiddayes@reddit
I can see the criticism that Fight Club feels like a precursor to parts of today’s alpha-male culture and grievance-driven masculinity discourse. But I think that reading is too narrow if it stops there. If you look at it more broadly as a rebellion against consumerism, alienation, and modern power structures, then it still feels very relevant.
Starwaverraver@reddit
Yeah it's weird that's all they get from the movie, oh it's only about make toxicity?
What.
That's completely misinterpreting the meaning, I think intentionally.
It's about letting go, over coming egoism, rebelling against capitalism.
frenchinhalerbought@reddit
Very dumb people misinterpreted this movie profoundly.
Starwaverraver@reddit
Is that yourself included?
FirstDukeofAnkh@reddit
This and Starship Troopers
bikemandan@reddit
Soo...Im not doing my part?
Starwaverraver@reddit
It's weird I keep seeing these comments come up, saying that actually you're all wrong and you've all misinterpreted this movie.
They're not heros, they're all villains!
It's weird because it's the opposite of what happened
It's them trying to rid themselves of ego and materialism.
And overcome the meaninglessness of life in ours current consumerist form.
They're trying to shift society away from capitalism and towards community.
By wiping out the debt.
That doesn't seem evil at all.
Rise-O-Matic@reddit
I'm sorry to rain on everyone's parade but if you like Fight Club there's a pretty high chance that Fight Club is more of a commentary about you than it is about the evil world. It's a portrait of male grievance.
The accurate angle is the film is about how easily men embrace self-destruction when it arrives dressed as strength. All the men in this movie actively give up freedom to live in squalor and violence to cure their alienation, their disgust with corporate life, their resentment to being consumers instead of warriors. And it becomes cult psychology.
They're not heroes, they're theater kids for nihilism.
Starwaverraver@reddit
But that's the point it's about giving up materialism.
Giving up ego.
You are not your khakis.
And finding purpose.
Rather than struggling for riches and status and living an empty alienated world. It didn't matter that you were living in squalor because you had everything you needed to survive and more essentially connection and purpose.
thebookofswindles@reddit
You realize it’s possible to like the film and know the difference between a protagonist and a hero, right?
Lowspark1013@reddit
Liking Fight Club because it is a great movie is different than liking to watch Fight Club on repeat because you want to join the cool kids group.
CausticAvenger@reddit
Yes we know what Fight Club is about, thank you.
SemataryPolka@reddit
Yeah no shit. We all knew this. And it's a good movie that critiques that lifestyle/mindset
BBWDLLUVER@reddit
What's the first rule of fight club? Don't talk about fight club.
epidemicsaints@reddit
I think the issue is that the themes have only increased in relevance, so the fact that it was playing for the audience back then makes it feel like it fails those themes.
In just the last ten years we have seen the beauty myth take over young men's minds on social media - without the shield of feminism women have had against it since the 70s - and have then turn to hyper masculine idols to pamper their egos.
This movie and RoboCop are both like this. They were biting satire in their day but now we are living in the boring, lame version of those worlds without the cool stuff.
Acrobatic_Fan_7859@reddit
You have so much flair and accolades that I can’t collapse your comment. Knock it off.
dust4ngel@reddit
bro, dick jones in robocop:
...oof.
epidemicsaints@reddit
Oh wow.
Watch the news and it seriously comes off like a background gag in RoboCop. Something on TV for 12 seconds to make you laugh the 12th time you watch it. "Such and such band pulls their music from Spotify for investing in autonomous flying killer robots."
One-Earth9294@reddit
American Psycho is another one. I feel like that kind of mad, obsessive scramble for wealth clout in the investor class is 10x worse now than it was in the 80s.
maceilean@reddit
The Gordon Gekko "Greed is Good" was not supposed to be a positive thing.
Allaplgy@reddit
I legitimately had a person here once try to argue that Starship Troopers wasn't satire/political commentary because "Why would a guy like Verhoeven go from making straightforward action like RoboCop and Total Recall to subversive political commentary?"
epidemicsaints@reddit
Not getting the memo on how sci-fi works kills me every time.
Practical-Witness796@reddit
Wouldn’t have connected this film to the current male movements such as red/black pill. Great take.
AdTop3924@reddit (OP)
Ditto. This is a very interesting observation. And a really sad state of affairs for young people
massunderestmated@reddit
"Self improvement is masturbation... now self destruction?"
I mean, there's a healthy medium between Jack's insanity and the bullshit consumerism that's taking away our souls, but he does have a point.
humble_cyrus@reddit
This is the definitive movie of our time. Kinda captures the spirit of our zeitgeist at the moment.
SimonGloom2@reddit
Today's alpha male culture was massively inspired by Tyler Durden, but the problem is they believe they represent his philosophy while they actually are the exact type of men Durden hates. They are products of capitalism and narcissism and consumer marketing and branding. They call themselves "influencers." Durden was a destruction of these ideas of past masculinity. It's just another piece of literature that a majority of readers completely misinterpreted the context. Durden would have hated all of these people.
SimonGloom2@reddit
Be just like Tyler Durden now. Just give us your credit card information! This is what I'm talking about. So it's possibly today people aren't viewing the movie or reading the book through the same lens since this male alpha culture is sort of the creation of Tyler Durden. Fight Club never had the problem of dealing with this group of capitalist alpha influencer men inspired by Tyler Durden. The problem in Fight Club was the violent anarchist men who became terrorists to fight against capitalist control. In fairness both of these groups are just as bad.
weltvonalex@reddit
I think a love triangle story will always be relevant, even if one of the partners is imaginary.
rmc2318@reddit
accuratesometimes@reddit
Are we still working crap jobs for low pay to buy more crap we don’t need anymore?
acromantulus@reddit
No. Many have to spend it all on stuff they do need and it’s still not enough.
fugu_me@reddit
1999: Working a job you hate to buy shit you don't need.
2026: Working 3 jobs you hate just to survive.
scruffigan@reddit
Counterpoint: 903 million Door Dash orders in just the fourth quarter of 2025.
massunderestmated@reddit
Yeah, but we do spend an awful lot of money of stuff we don't need. I lived in a single rented bedroom with my mom when I was 3. We had 2 mattresses and a hot plate and a couple of changes of clothes and some books.
FoppyRETURNS@reddit
You tell me to stop buying disposable crap they want to unleash some Project Mayhem on you!
ElGuaco@reddit
It's worse, now we have to rent everything.
malogan82@reddit
I have to work two crap jobs to struggle to get ahead. And when I do, BAM! Surprise medical bill / car expenses.
TheWorldIsNotOkay@reddit
Most people can't afford the crap we don't need anymore. The low pay from the crap jobs barely covers necessities.
AdTop3924@reddit (OP)
adammonroemusic@reddit
Society is essentially in the same exact state it was in 1999, we just have TilTok, Reddit, and YouTube to distract us now.
rockstar1083@reddit
The best film ever.
DungPedalerDDSEsq@reddit
https://i.redd.it/kr7gjv8lvuwg1.gif
Violet_Walls@reddit
Side story, I made a fight club joke in front of my Gen Z coworkers (literally just saying the first rule of fight club quote) and nobody got it 😭. I never thought I’d see the day…
petula_75@reddit
it was never a serious movie.
Pious_Atheist@reddit
Just watched this with my kids last week. It definitely holds up, and the next generation gets it. They loved it.
LostViking24601@reddit
I am Jack's raging bile-duct
AllenKll@reddit
Still an entertaining movie. But since the alt right/nazis started using it as a recruitment tool, it has gone down in popularity.
calvicstaff@reddit
Well let's see, do we have a bunch of men feeling unsatisfied and disenfranchised being led by an actual crazy person who correctly points out problems with the system but then radicalizes them into counterproductive and destructive behaviors?
Angelas-Merkin@reddit
I think people misunderstanding fight club has had a big impact on our current society.
snewchybewchies@reddit
Does your buddy realize the book was written by a gay man and it's making fun of right wingers and toxic masculinity?
Physical_Log_4337@reddit
Even more relevant today.....
wrenwood2018@reddit
It holds up. In some ways it's even more relevant. Men are even more lost today than 20 years ago.
OffMeta13@reddit
The book is also amazing!
-Midnight_Marauder-@reddit
Its absolutely still relevant as a critique on how young men can be easily manipulated to extreme effect when they feel unvalued by society in general.
GarbageBright1328@reddit
I saw this movie this year for the 1st time as a 37 year old. It absolutely holds up. I can't believe I hadn't seen it yet.
imdabes@reddit
I still can’t believe how many miss the bits about the narrator explaining that his job was to determine if a recall would cost more than wrongful death lawsuits, his sentiment about ‘smart little trinkets’(prior to Tyler), the simulacra xerox metaphor, the significance of the debt/credit system explosion, and much much more.
ethnicvegetable@reddit
I think about that every time I get a recall notice in the mail
Schmitty300@reddit
Absolutely holds up. Not just the theming, but the acting is sublime and overall just an incredible watch.
blamberr@reddit
The acting is A+ And peak Brad Pitt is always a welcome experience
Self-Translator@reddit
🤤
ethnicvegetable@reddit
and he just keeps getting FINER
big_ringer@reddit
I think it holds up, and audiences are a bit more savvy to the cautionary tale it actually is, and not... you know, trying to start up real-life fight clubs.
HereForAquaSwapping@reddit
I didn't enjoy nor especially dislike the movie when I first saw it and have come to hate it but that is at least partially because of a very vocal segment of its fanbase which missed the point entirely and instead revel in a wildly corny macho interpretation of the film.
TSLBestOfMe@reddit
If anything, I'm at least glad that Bob died.
DavePeesThePool@reddit
It doesn't hold up as well today to younger generations because this (and as someone else mentioned, Office Space) is a product of a generation whose biggest complaint was how boring and soul-sucking their jobs were while affording their own apartment with no roommates.
Average incomes in the US have increased something like 250% since 1996, but average housing costs have gone up 400-500%. Anyone who didn't purchase a house before 2000 (or between 2008 and 2012 during the post-crash dip) is working the same type of soul-sucking job to go home to an apartment with 2 roommates, or are still living with their parents.
The relative financial stability and independence shown in these movies makes the characters' motivations and attitudes harder for the average younger viewer to identify with.
nickwoes@reddit
I just watched it last night again, on DVD nonetheless. More relevant today than it was when it came out imo
longlivelevon@reddit
Wtf people?! Rule 1!! Rule 2!!
Carlsoti77@reddit
Insomnia still causes hallucinations, if that's what your asking.
scrotanimus@reddit
It’s excellent. Look at the manosphere and the toxic grasp it has on young men. Fight Club is a cautionary tale of what happens when young men don’t have positive male role models.
We need more Aragorns from Lord of the Rings.
Eat_more_tacos_@reddit
SLIDE!
Snake_Circle_Studios@reddit
It’s a great tale of someone getting into some weird shit and finding out one person can change a landscape, could be any subject, this film is just a well painted version; dudes, punches, politics, anarchy, all just different colors on a pallet, the real brush strokes have allways been embracing a strange time, and finding adventure in the regret.
lakebistcho@reddit
Fight Club is amazing, but I went from worshipping the film back in college to thinking it was probably very harmful to see that film as having any kind of great wisdom for people. The guy is insane, and the genre of films that say normalcy and affluence are so boring it's making me insane does not hold up. The critique of capitalism holds up but the theory of change does not.
PlentyMacaroon8903@reddit
YES. The number of guys that made this the basis of their personality is terrible when you consider that zero of those people are "good" people.
Inevitable-While-577@reddit
Exactly, it's similar to people admiring the guy in Falling Down. He is wrong, he's violent and mentally unwell.
Lowspark1013@reddit
At the time it came out it was an interesting piece that held a critical mirror up to both capitalistic greed as well as the dangers of nihilistic rebellion.
However now it hits even closer to home on both. And is dangerously used as some kind of proof of concept for the latter movement that has infiltrated the manosphere. So it is hard to like it now.
statistacktic@reddit
His name was Robert Paulson.
SteakJones@reddit
Fully holds up. Your buddy is wrong. 🤣
SoftConsideration82@reddit
Wat? There is more options than masterpiece or relic... It's just a god movie
creepygurl83@reddit
I think that reflects the sentiment of the author whose whole works are commentaries on the fucked-uped-ness of the world that we weren't as aware of before the internet.
Rymnarr@reddit
Technology has changed but the anti consumerism still holds very true.
Ltimbo@reddit
I think it has been relevant since our economy began revolving around materialism and will remain relevant till our economy changes.
triaxial23@reddit
100% still relavent
ZakDahdger@reddit
Stop.
Just-Stress9165@reddit
Fight Club is a movie I think is still great but unfortunately attracts the kind of fans I don't want to associate with.
CorgiKnightStudios@reddit
We gonna see a LOT of people like Tyler here soon around the world. 😐
MattBlasing@reddit
Relevant, kinda. Jack literally killed off his ultra-masculine and destructive altar-ego in order to become the awakened self he was meant to be. Granted, he broke a bunch of shit (and people) in the process, but that’s beside the point. Maybe he was just a timid shitbag all along, just like many of the people that we know and love today, both in person and on social media.
redzedx77@reddit
Still my go to movie about aggression and male identity (crises)
biffbobfred@reddit
I think:
it’s about as relevant now as then
people mistake what the real issue is
My call - people don’t have a definition anymore. They’re lost. So some dude gave them one. But then his definition for them was destruction which ain’t helping shit.
North_Particular_758@reddit
I’ve never seen it. Gonna watch it soon
NoiseTherapy@reddit
I still love it, but I think seeing it through the lens of the existence of MAGAts and redpillers, it might be cringey
YakiVegas@reddit
More relevant than ever.
NoIncrease299@reddit
I love this film in terms of extraordinary acting and production but ultimately ... it's our generation's "Atlas Shrugged."
Beeksvameth@reddit
As much as I love this movie it becomes less relevant as more people slip into poverty and away from comfort. This movie showcases when there is nothing to fight for. In truth, there has never been more to fight for in our lives.
Canadatron@reddit
It still slaps.
Just goes to show you that our gen X peeps were already starting to feel the pinch of "modern" society at that time. Fast forward a quarter century and it's x100.
Crans10@reddit
Sounds like your buddy never really understood Fight Club in the first place.
Vitiligogoinggone@reddit
Watched it with my 18 year old recently. Felt slow, not groundbreaking, and little cringe at times.
VectorJones@reddit
Men in the midst of a crisis of identity in the modern world. That's become even more of an issue in society today than it was 25 years ago.
smallwonkydachshund@reddit
I think more people understand it as satire at least now. though still not all.
JonnyQuest1981@reddit
Overall message of fighting corporate America, calling attention to how the rich shit on the rest of us, credit card companies, etc…. Yes, still very relevant. However, there are some minutiae things in the film that I would say are not. For example, “Self improvement is masturbation.” is telling us self improvement is a waste of time. It’s a very man-child perspective from a movie that was preaching a sort of nihilistic enlightenment against current societal trends. Some of the comments in Fight Club would be considered toxic bro culture garbage by today’s standards, do those parts I would not consider relevant. That being said, Bob’s tits will always be relevant.
CausticAvenger@reddit
Tyler Durden is toxic bro culture personified, but that’s the entire point. He’s basically Andrew Tate if Andrew Tate didn’t look like a shaved monkey.
JonnyQuest1981@reddit
That’s what I was trying to get at and even more so that Tyler Durden paved the way/inspired people like Andrew Tate.
JonnyQuest1981@reddit
Overall message of fighting corporate America, calling attention to how the rich shit on the rest of us, credit card companies, etc…. Yes, still very relevant. However, there are some minutiae things in the film that I would say are not. For example, “Self improvement is masturbation.” is telling us self improvement is a waste of time. It’s a very man-child perspective from a movie that was preaching a sort of nihilistic enlightenment against current societal trends. Some of the comments in Fight Club would be considered toxic bro culture garbage by today’s standards, so those parts I would not consider relevant. That being said, Bob’s tits will always be
zurenarhhhhh@reddit
A bit of both? The themes still stand but I do get sick of hearing yoots quote the movie as they’ve clearly just discovered it and start to adopt it into their sigmoid personalities.
SaulTNNutz@reddit
Unfortunately very culturally relevant today due to misinterpretation of its themes
morgentrona@reddit
project mayhem needs to commence.
loogie97@reddit
Read the book. It compliments the movie well. Chuck P. creates amazing worlds out of absurd concepts.
EfficiencyIVPickAx@reddit
I thought it was deep. It doesn't hit too hard now.
MechanicStriking4666@reddit
The 90’s nihilism in popular culture really made it easy for the modern conservative movement to browbeat everyone into accepting fascism.
Pulp_Ficti0n@reddit
The things you own, own you
As I post in this plastic rectangle made in South Korea...
jaeldi@reddit
Our handheld black mirrors.
SemataryPolka@reddit
Ian MacKaye said it better
frecklemimus79@reddit
One of those works whose meaning is elevated by its author. Chuck had some shit to say about masculinity.
techie1980@reddit
I was blown away when I saw Fight Club in the theater, but I was just about the exact target demographic. It eventually lead to me reading most of Palahniuk's books. Stylistically I still love the film and the risks that it took. And I think that the movie was perfectly cast.
I think the themes of alienation and detachment are still very valid. The twist was great. And watching subsequent times, I grew to kind of pity Marla. Here she was, in a bad state, with exactly the wrong person who was screwing with her head in increasingly horrible ways. And watching the narrator kind of self destruct his entire life without exactly realizing how still rings true.
the rapid escalation - basically moving past it being a Fight Club to Project Mayhem - is where I have a hard time watching the movie. It's very, very coded for young men. Where Tyler truly becomes the charismatic leader and the other men - who the narrator respects or admires all follow Tyler. The lack of conflict is just... weird. There's a fairly quick scene of threatening the police chief and that's it.
"The plan" is also just... weird. I can remember rolling my eyes the first time I saw it - Hollywood isn't known for getting technical details right on computer stuff, but - really, no one ever heard of a backup? And Tyler's dream of a forest in a city ... why the hell do people seem to always think that cities will last very long if no one is doing upkeep? Or even think that they'd do well in social collapse?
There was a big flashing warning about young men getting alienated. and this was the first time (to my knowledge) in major media where they were starting to point out that the status quo of fathers getting pushed out of their children's lives was going to have serious consequences in a non-racially coded way.
This movie, followed by Death to Smoochy, cemented Norton's amazing acting range in my head.
handsoapdispenser@reddit
I feel like 99% of people completely misunderstood this movie and consider the main character(s) a hero instead of what he actually is: a severely unwell man whose functional inability to perceive objective reality gave him the confidence to enthral alienated men into a cult of gruesome self-destruction for nonsensical ideals.
Repulsive_Set_4155@reddit
God, that shot is so perfectly grimy. Pitt looks terminally unwashed (while ironically wearing a filthy bathrobe), the colors maks the space look like it should be antiseptic clean- a hospital or well kept pool- but everything is matte and opaque, like dampness and grease have long since colonized and are fighting for dominance, and that cigarette promises worse sensations to come once the smoke has penetrated everything in that enclosed space. Fincher really knows how to shoot em.
thebarbalag@reddit
At a time when a majority of this country, most especially young men, are falling under the sway of ideologues and charismatic leaders with poorly thought out ideas, how could it not be as relevant as it ever was? Male loneliness epidemic? This movie was about that before it even came into the zeitgeist.
Irish_swede@reddit
Considering fight club is a critique of red pilled bro culture and toxic masculinity I’d say it’s more relevant today than it was at release.
sin667@reddit
Just watched this with my son last week. It holds up just fine. He was absolutely floored with the ending. So cool to see someone react not knowing the twist.
obeekaybee7@reddit
Just watched it this week and it absolutely holds up
lIlIIlIIllIllIlIIIll@reddit
Very relevant
ckglle3lle@reddit
Like a lot of work from the 90s that critiqued and criticized corporatism and consumerism. It hits relatively well on some of the problems.
But it falls short on any particular ideas in favor of presenting cynical detachment as enlightenment. The worldview it sits closest to endorsing is one in which effort of any kind is cringe and futile and that nothing good can ever happen. At a basic level, this shuts down critical thinking in favor of a fatalistic everything is fucked so why bother outlook or more extreme, provides an entire permission structure for inhabiting the belief that nothing is possible. In that way it is essentially a juvenile story that tells you it is good to never grow or change or learn or try and that the world is always at fault. Which will always age exactly as well as you continue to want to hear that, pretty much.
DrVanderjuice@reddit
It got the men turning into pussies thing right
hairyminded@reddit
Your friend sounds like he should go back to reading the IKEA catalog.
jo_dnt_kno@reddit
His name was Robert Paulsen.
jaeldi@reddit
I think the anti-consumerism message and lack of identity message in the movie will resonate for a long long long long time. As long as evil credit cards and credit agencies exist the secret plot of the movie is timeless.
mp3god@reddit
Going to see the 4K remaster today!
guilen@reddit
It seems downright prescient.
FoppyRETURNS@reddit
My personal interpretation of the movie was more personal. There is someone inside, tearing us down from the inside, we either eliminate that person or that person eliminates us.
Either way, our old life comes crashing down in the end. A new life begins.
The book is a much more literal (and that's stretching it considering the insanity narrative) critique of capitalism and modern society, and how the response is simply a different kind of destruction. The 'fighting back' being a coping mechanism of a disempowered "man raised without a father" who thinks that every working man in the world is in on Project Mayhem and deifies him, even in the nuthouse.
mcspecialkk@reddit
The romantized portrayal of the characters does not hold up as you get older.
CausticAvenger@reddit
Calling any of these characters romanticized is wild.
mcspecialkk@reddit
They cast a two time sexiest man alive as a lead actor.
That my friend, is romanticized.
CausticAvenger@reddit
That’s kind of the point though. Tyler represents the narrator’s ideal vision of masculinity, so he looks like Brad Pitt.
mcspecialkk@reddit
But hates beauty so messed up Jared leto? The only arguably ugly character was meatloaf, who was treated as a running joke and anti masculine.
The film falls victim to its own point.
nola_mike@reddit
The generation of young men today idolize characters like Tyler Durden without even a hint of irony. They're so lonely and angry without understanding that they need to work on themselves and be better people. Instead they do everything they shouldn't be doing and in turn people continue to ostracize them. Not because they are men or not "alpha" enough, but because they are weird and no one wants to be around that shit.
AntiRepresentation@reddit
Relevant by what metric?
tsancio@reddit
“ “
Miserable_Return_843@reddit
The bathroom scene with the rubber band? Relevant if you ask me 👀
Matchew024@reddit
Watching this tonight in the theatres with my 17 year old. I was younger than them when it came out.
Appropriate-Ad-1281@reddit
Pitt gives me the ick now, but this movie is perfection.
and as relevant today as ever.
originalxnuttah@reddit
It’s not inclusive, so no.
Atworkwasalreadytake@reddit
More relevant now
subsonicmonkey@reddit
I feel like this movie encouraged the internet troll movement, which was in-turn captured by conservative media which gave us our current presidential administration, so I don’t really get good vibes from this movie anymore.
CausticAvenger@reddit
That’s not the movie’s fault.
subsonicmonkey@reddit
Sure, but it affects the way I feel about the movie.
SurpriseAble7291@reddit
I think Fight Club is relevant in that it helps explain where things were headed. More of a this is going to be a problem that we are dealing with now
VikingSkinwalker@reddit
I am Jack's sense of urgency.
Whackjob-KSP@reddit
Fight club was meant to be a parody.
3OsInGooose@reddit
Wait… y’all get that this story is an allegory about coming out, right?
Right!?
ChristyLovesGuitars@reddit
Fight Club is the best example of how bad media literacy in the US has gotten. A book/movie criticizing capitalism, toxic masculinity, and misogyny all the ‘alpha men’ fucking love.
Like Animal Farm, really proves how illiterate so many have become.
PhatBoyFlim@reddit
I think Fight Club holds up, but only if you actually take away what you’re supposed ro.
Tyler Durden is the fucking villain. Fight Club becomes Project Mayhem becomes fascism with sexy abs. The narrator's whole arc is destroying the thing he created because it's fucking monstrous.
Now, like, Tyler isn't wrong about everything. Capitalism does commodify identity. Consumer culture is hollow. Male alienation is real. That's exactly what makes him so dangerous. He has legitimate grievances and a completely psychotic solution. (Sound familiar?? It’s basically the seeds of the manosphere in movie form)
If you come away from that movie inspired by Tyler? You proved the point. The seduction of just enough of the truth to get you to go along with the seducer is the trap. That's the whole thesis.
(Same thing Dune does with Paul. Paul is a warning, not a power fantasy. Charismatic leader. Correct criticisms. Catastrophic destination.)
So i don’t think the movie aged poorly. It's just still finding all-new people to miss the point.
nopester24@reddit
relevant since 1985, even more so now
Jedi_Mind_Chick@reddit
The other 90s movie where “madulla oblongata” is in the script.
blamberr@reddit
cyberdude419@reddit
Wiping out all debts sounds like a good time
International-Mix425@reddit
Consumerism is still with us, and in us. Fight Club was pre-Amazon
Ass or the balls???
physical0@reddit
I feel like fight club warned of a dystopia that never happened because of 9/11.
There are still elements that ring true, but the broader message of consumerism is kinda lost on the ever shifting poverty line. Before, the concern was that we would all be mindless consumers and now the concern is that we don't even have enough to consume.
I cite 9/11 as the shift as it moved us away from the "peacetime" boom and back towards wartime spending where the masses are expected to make sacrifices for the safety and security of the nation. The surveillance state grew out of this and has steadily eroded our rights.
Furrymcfurface@reddit
It's what everyone wishes they could do
HBymf@reddit
The problem is, the main demographic (working men) that this movie is for and about have ironically and unwittingly aligned themselves with the corporate owners that this movie is fighting.
humanist-misanthrope@reddit
One of my favorite anecdotes about Fight Club is that Chuck Palahniuk wrote Invisible Monsters, which is an absolute masterpiece, first. When he shopped it around the feedback said it was too grotesque. In frustration he set out to write an even more grotesque novel, Fight Club. The latter was obviously wildly accepted and praised. And as brilliant as that book and the movie are, Invisible Monsters is even better. “When we don’t know who to hate, we hate ourselves.” That line has lived in my head for over 20 years.
Evan_802Vines@reddit
Eh, I feel like the vibe gets imitated by a lot of magabros but it's still cool.
https://i.redd.it/ruzqo4dwuswg1.gif
sofaraway10@reddit
I think the sheer number of takes in this thread alone demonstrate just how relevant this is today. It’s satire, certainly, but large chunks of our society have outsourced their critical reasoning through social media and other avenues to the point where people take this movie at face value rather than seeing the message it’s sending.
A 30 second clip taken out of context becomes a mantra while the message itself is lost.
It’s a movie I absolutely love for the acting, the writing, and the Fincher style of it.
The_C0u5@reddit
They're doing a special screening today for it actually
Practical-Witness796@reddit
It was bleak about men’s mental health and need for meaning & connection, way ahead of its time. It feels like a prediction that came true in recent years. Men are doing worse than ever. But instead of joining a fight club or anarchist cults, they bully each other online. A different type of cope.
Tylerdurden389@reddit
In the time since its release, a man of 5-9 went from being average height, to men of 5-11 being called short. Not average, not shorter than average, but full-on short.
_Xee@reddit
Your buddy needs himself checked.
AdTop3924@reddit (OP)
I don’t think he would even deny that
_Xee@reddit
This seems more like "I don't watch anything older than a week" take. or tl;dw ;)
AdTop3924@reddit (OP)
I’ll go to bat for him here and say that he’s really not like that. All of his favorite movies are 15-30 years old, and he has the attention span to read things. His point was something along the lines of it doesn’t necessarily transcend the era, which I think is a fair enough take, but not one I agree with.
georgefrankly@reddit
You mean the movie about how listless young men are recruited into a fascist militia?
Definitely not relevant in the 2020s...
gregshafer11@reddit
Love this movie, its one of the few I can watch over and over. I hope they dont try a remake
wakeupangry_@reddit
The guys in fight club today would find each other online vs underground boxing clubs.
And our societal ennui is more rooted in reality since then given our slide to fascism.
Other than that I would say it’s as relevant as ever!
“Is that your blood?
Some of it, yeah.”
sheezy520@reddit
Can’t wait for the modern version of this where the main character looks at the camera and says he deserves a hot woman willing to do everything he wants while maintaining a shit personally and hygiene and looks like Steve Buscemi crossed with a goat.
veritable-truth@reddit
It's more relevant today. Young guys are far more disillusioned than gen x ever was.
Sikkus@reddit
You failed the first and second rule...
Alarmed_Drop7162@reddit
The manosphere bullshit is apt.
Gravelroad__@reddit
Satire rarely holds up. Fight Club failed almost immediately at its goal, but it is a core part of our culture in ways its creators didn’t intend/want
SemataryPolka@reddit
I remember the advertising looking very bro-y in like 99 and I was gonna skip it for that very reason. Then the dorkiest Cure kid I worked with said it was amazing and I was like "Well that's surprising" so I gave it a chance and it was my favorite movie. I think I get the satire even more today. I think I primarily was drawn to the whole "tear it all down" creed that seems so revolutionary when you're 20. But I also never once mistook it for "THIS FIGHTING IS SO COOL"
counterhit121@reddit
I don't really buy into the conclusion of the story, but Pahlanuik really tapped into something with the Fight Club idea. I do bjj as a hobby, and it's pretty much a literal manifestation of the fight club idea. Except everyone talks about it lol.
Ronthelodger@reddit
Relevant in a different way- it looks at the nexus of two conflicting forces : consumer fallout and toxic cultures that provide alternative narratives
ZaphodBeeblebrahx@reddit
This is one of those Movies with two camps of fans. Gym bros who like fights, and freaks who want to see the whole system come Crashing down. It’s a hilarious combo.
Commisar_Steel@reddit
One set of fans might even have read the book
ZaphodBeeblebrahx@reddit
The ones who quietly get it and just realize there’s No sense trying to explain it to cavemen
Red_Car_Singer@reddit
I feel like this might be an over simplification. Some of us are there because we just don't like cornflower blue ties... 😂
ZaphodBeeblebrahx@reddit
It’s a massive oversimplification lol and those ties are a symbol the MAN makes you wear
_Presence_@reddit
Also a third… those who view the social commentary of the movie as a cautionary tale. A “late stage capitalism” manifesto as to the consequences of what might happen when men feel disenfranchised, isolated and without hope. Someone comes along and gives them meaning and brotherhood. Unfortunately the people who come along don’t often have volunteer work as their top priority to inject meaning into someone’s life. The commentary of the film is truer today than its’ ever been.
However, the details of real life have differed from the film, but the underlying tone has been very relevant. The rise of MAGA among young men and the “manosphere” is very similar to what Durden gave to his followers through Project Mayhem. A feeling of purpose and community. The main difference is that MAGA pointed the men towards the Democratic process and the Democratic Party (Jan 6) and not towards corporations. Now MAGA is pointing those men towards undocumented (and documented) immigrants and given them legal authority through ICE to abduct and abuse immigrants. But the underlying motivations for lost and hopeless young men seem very relevant today.
The irony is that immigrants are the exact opposite of what’s actually contributing to the sense of hopelessness. They are the scapegoats for why the current capitalist system is failing so many people. It is the Epstein class (Billionaire class) who are the true villains in real life. They exploit and harm people and the environment without conscience through diffuse responsibility within the corporate structure.
Room234@reddit
I feel like the percentage of the population that DOESN'T actually get the message has gotten larger...
absentlyric@reddit
Which is ironic because the actual message of the movie is the opposite, but fans twisted it to their perspective.
ZaphodBeeblebrahx@reddit
Exactly. You could tell a lot about a person by how they interpreted the movie.
blondeviking64@reddit
I remember thinking it was good when it came out. I remember rewatching it a few years later and thinking already that it already passed its prime and the movie doesnt land with me at all now. Id say it doesnt hold up.
FoppyRETURNS@reddit
Just finished the book recently
Stwltd@reddit
Gif looks like he’s considering shoving the cigarette up his nose then changes his mind.
Innomen@reddit
Edgy glorified male passive suicide. "Witness me" with a better sound track. It's the adult version of when teenagers of the same era wanted a zombie outbreak. /46, has read all chuck's novels.
Phoniceau@reddit
I don’t know if it’s even more relevant than ever, but definitely still relevant. One of my favorite movies, about one of my favorite books, by my absolute favorite author. If you haven’t read anything by Chuck Palahniuk, I highly recommend.
wheres_the_revolt@reddit
It was supposed to be a cautionary tale for men (about loneliness and toxic masculinity) and for society (about consumption and corporate greed), and we as a whole completely lost the plot.
Remote_Database7688@reddit
Millennium era apocalypse fan fiction. Tyler was basically co-opted immediately by fringe libertarians that got radicalized into the alt-right and now into maga. It’s a white power-fantasy of destroying a world that isn’t macho enough. Yes, Tyler wasn’t racist at all but like I said, he was co-opted, much like the Punisher.
hyzerKite@reddit
Remastered and in theaters now. I would probably go see it again on a cheap day.
dbzmah@reddit
More of a telling tale, similar to the Matrix. The1980's were the last bit of pre decay capitalism.
hamsterballzz@reddit
Very few, if any, movies or books do a better job of encapsulating toxic masculinity than Fight Club. The fact that so many men can’t see it for what it is and try to use it as a technical guide is both ironic and equally depressing.
00collector@reddit
Ok, so, what exactly does your friend say to support his claim that it doesn’t hold up? What’s his issue with it?
OhTheHueManatee@reddit
You're not supposed to talk about Fight Club.
Doc5tove@reddit
It holds up, but not for the way that the current toxic man-o-sphere thinks it does…
Way_2_Go_Donny@reddit
PCU is the most relevant movie from the 90s.
CausticAvenger@reddit
Feels incredibly relevant to the toxic masculinity “manosphere” hell we find ourselves in today. I’m curious why your buddy thinks it doesn’t hold up.
edasto42@reddit
I think it depends on the reasons someone appreciates the movie. Theres a decent contingent that missed the meaning of the movie. Even though it’s been talked about a lot, there’s still bros that movie is a celebration of masculine violence. They think Tyler is a hero. For those, the movie never really held up even if they think it does.
this_knee@reddit
Holds up
HiddenUser1248@reddit
I just watched it with my late teen/early 20s kids. I think it is still very relevant, and they enjoyed it.
chawrawbeef@reddit
The first rule of Project Mayhem is you do not talk about Project Mayhem
Deluxe78@reddit
How doesnt it hold up ? Not enough smart phones in it?
der_innkeeper@reddit
The only issue with the movie is that the dude exuding toxic masculinity is the one giving the based anti-consumerist mantras.
Otherwise, its spot on.
kronik419@reddit
They softened the story for the movie but the book's outlook on modern society has never NOT been pretty accurate to me.
-B_E_v_oL_23-@reddit
It's about spiritual awakening. Tyler was the guys messenger angel. The girl is misfortune and the buildings falling at the end represents the understanding of the trinity that's within. Great fucking story, can't talk about fight club though.
GravyPainter@reddit
Their main hoal was ending financial institutions.
Me looking at the 24% interest on my credit card
fingerling-broccoli@reddit
So far nothing has been as accurate as idiocracy
Excellent-Price-9388@reddit
As someone in recovery, it is on my mind constantly. He does such a good job of depicting the reality of what it's like to be in groups and trying to get better and do the next right thing. "Survivor" and "Choke" are better for that, bit "Fight Club" still holds up.
Room234@reddit
The idea of being controlled by corporate shit holds up great but the movie is skinned in that edgelord 90s veneer that feels waaaaaaaay less cool and edgy than it did when we were all 18. I'd call it a wash.
horror-@reddit
Jeeze. The most anticapitalistic movie I've ever seen is not relevant today? Are you sure your buddy was paying attention?
brainfreeze77@reddit
I'm going to see it in a theater tonight.
karebearjedi@reddit
Kinda? It's definitely a product of it's time. The message is relevant, but not something that I would consider timeless.
Rahawk02@reddit
It's back in the theaters today for some reason. Remastered. I might go, It's been a while.
JeffBroccoli@reddit
I watched it back again recently and it really didn’t hold up
18randomcharacters@reddit
What didn't hold up?
Like, was the message no longer relevant? Were the jokes and turns of phrase cringy due to shifts in what's acceptable?
From memory, I'd say the message is still extremely relevant. I worry that current young men would use this as a tool for red-pilling.
karebearjedi@reddit
They've been doing that for a while now.
ughyoujag@reddit
I’m not passionate and engrossed thinking its cinematic brilliance anymore, but I think it’s still watchable and highly quotable.