If government shuts down internet, can you still gain access to the outside world?
Posted by More_Passenger3988@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 136 comments
A neighbor of mine is upset because they lost contact with their friends in Iran when the regime shut down their internet.
deserthistory@reddit
Meshtastic network is interesting. Mexican hams have quite a network up. 50+ miles, well beyond ground line of sight.
Once you get past the initial shock : Shared USB flash drives. Packet radio on the short range. HF in the long range. Depending on the circumstances, printed paper, or graffiti.
Taking control of the internet is a huge step. People depend on it. Taking it away makes a populace less likely to believe a regime.
ohyeahwell@reddit
Meshtastic is alright but failing, esp with medium/fast mishmash, and hop congestion. Check out meshcore. That’s what I’m building around.
Either are limited by pure text.
beached89@reddit
How you doing with the meshcore split then? Which route you goin?
ohyeahwell@reddit
Meshcore. My goal is talking to my wife 100mi away.
cyanescens_burn@reddit
Can you use meshcore on the same hardware as meshtastic?
ohyeahwell@reddit
Yep! I like this release on my l1 pro, has some qol features over official.
deserthistory@reddit
Bullshit.
Not ready for prime time. I have both. I have solar nodes going, and one in my car. Meshcore is hype and vaporware on my area.
dontneed2knowaccount@reddit
I've got a "meshpoint" setup with a meshcore companion device and there are NO meshcore device in range. Even looking at their map, there's virtually no one in my state(most are in the top quarter of my state). I've taken it on trips and MT is everywhere while MC is sparse.
Personally I don't care which is used as long as there is a mesh but in reality they should learn to play together somehow. Especially if its going to be split on user preference and if shtf.
ohyeahwell@reddit
Ah, I'm SF Bay Area (north bay) and it's robust. I can talk all the way down to Monterey (150mi~), but meshtastic I can hardly get an ack within my neighborhood.
deserthistory@reddit
Freaking amazing AREDN network there last time I looked into it. That was before meshtastic. Ran a point for a couple years. Never once heard anything in my neck of the woods. Repurposed that node as a local network bridge.
Meshtastic and VHF/HF voice are about it. Meshtastic is good here. Great repeaters up from the Mexican ham clubs. San Luis RC to Progreso, West Yuma to El Centro. No problem with a little height.
ohyeahwell@reddit
The nice thing is the same hardware works for either mc/mt so if op or anyone is interested, they can figure out which works for their area for 'free'.
I took a look at your comment history, you're vastly more knowledgeable on the subject than I am. Thanks for keeping it civil.
Also you may not know, but reddit enabled private accounts recently so guys like me can't run through your whole reddit history. I got doxxed hard years ago so I'm a little paranoid about it.
I also use shreddit to purge my history older than 3 days but that was prior to the private account thing.
How to Hide Comment History (Desktop & Mobile):
Via Mobile App (Android/iOS):
Retro_Feniks@reddit
Just a heads up, through the Way Back Machine I can still see all your comments on a bunch of different subs all the way up to 7 years ago. Most people don't know this and think that once they put their account on private, no one can see anything anymore. Took 5 seconds and I can still see your entire history regardless of deleting comments, privacy settings, etc.
Just a little addition I think is important.
ohyeahwell@reddit
Thanks! URL? I left some public via whitelist and only nuked my everyday style comments.
Federal_Refrigerator@reddit
With private: mods in communities you are in can still see your comments and posts history, as well as some other exceptions.
Gillennial@reddit
If communication between humans is the main goal, MeshCore is a better choice and uses the exact same devices and was designed
However, Meshtastic is a better choice if telemetry (getting data from remote sensors) is the main goal.
drdewm@reddit
I grew up in the world before cell phones and the internet. The answer is a blissful yes you can.
LongRangeSavage@reddit
Yep. Been an extra class amateur radio licensee for a while now and have made HF contacts on every continent but Antarctica.
deserthistory@reddit
Antarctica is REALLY easy using Psk31 and gray line.
kaptainkatsu@reddit
Wow this got nerdy real quick. But also extra holder and also not made a contact with Antarctica.
deserthistory@reddit
Wait, you're an extra and haven't talked to Antarctica? Sir, are you actually qualified to declare something, "nerdy"? 😀
XxSemanticsxX@reddit
I'm an extra, and I only have an HT radio lol. If I could stop buying ammo and guns, because I love to train, I'd probably have a really nice shack.
LongRangeSavage@reddit
I bought a G44 and a 22lr conversion kit for my ARs a couple years ago. They basically paid for themselves in about 3-6 months. Everything after that has helped me to allow money to be used elsewhere. I think I paid about $100 for around 1500 rounds. I always spend the last bit of time shooting 9mm, .223, or .308 though. That way I don’t get used to the super soft recoil of the 22lr.
kaptainkatsu@reddit
My favorite gun right now is my m&p 22x. So nice being able to shoot for less than $10 a range trip.
kaptainkatsu@reddit
Ooof, same here sorta? Got back into guns and time/money is being diverted there
deserthistory@reddit
You do what makes you happy. Enjoy yourself, learn, laugh, make mistakes (hopefully ones that don't hurt), and make memories.
Nobody in a medley care facility ever said, "i wish I was more diligent on my taxes. "
I've been an extra for a while now, and find myself using HTs and Meshtastic way more than all that HF gear collecting dust in my shop. Enjoy the world while you can, brother.
Busy_Reporter4017@reddit
I used FT8. Tell me more about reaching them via PSK? My main mode is VarAC.
deserthistory@reddit
Just grab a digital mode program. I used Ham Radio Deluxe back when. I use FLDigi anymore. Not a lot of people using the "old modes" lately. It's all FT8 and similar "quick" modes. You can really rack up contacts, but not a lot of chatter. One talked to a guy who was kind enough to send me a photo of his tractor cutting wheat by Olivia. My wife was PISSED that I wouldn't come to dinner because I was watching that photo come across at 8 bits per second or something like that 😀
Try it. FT and JT modes are neat. But when you want to actually communicate with people about things, it's hard with those modes.
LongRangeSavage@reddit
I really haven’t even seen reports on any stations down there when I’m on. That said, I haven’t really dipped into many of the digital modes. I’ve done a little FT8, but mainly do SSB and a little CW. I was thinking about trying JS8, but that doesn’t seem to have many people on it whenever I take a look. I’ll have to do more digging into PSK31. It could just be I’m not using the right method.
deserthistory@reddit
The guy in the German station did PSK31 for acouple years. Gray line is funny. Only really world in north America for about 45 minutes.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
In a limited fashion, yes.
I'm an amateur radio operator of long experience (36 years now), and prior to that I was a Morse interceptor for the US Army, so I'm familiar with the world of HF signals and of signals intelligence.
I make HF contacts all the time, and in fact I do it from my car driving to and from work.
Having said that, if the government shuts down the Internet, I'm sure they're also going to forbid amateur radio. I'm aware of the "tricks of the trade" and I have done a lot of both portable operating and mobile operation, so I could probably do it for longer than most without being caught, but unless you go completely off the air, you will eventually be caught, even if you're as good as I think I am.
greenarrow118@reddit
Im looking for a new handheld radio. I have the U5V and have been looking at the Yaesu Original FT-65 FT-65R. How good of a radio is this?
dittybopper_05H@reddit
Much better than the UV-5R. But don’t buy a radio like that until you get your ham radio license, if you aren’t already licensed
Why?
It’s like buying a gun and never taking it to the range to sight it in and practice with it.
You won’t know what it’s capable of, or what you’re capable of when using it.
There are 3.4 metric shit-loads of prepper-friendly and prepper-adjacent activities in amateur radio.
Yes, you probably won’t need a license when SHTF for real, but if you don’t have the experience through practice you’re likely to be depending on something that is impossible or unlikely. Or just as bad, you won’t know an alternative to accomplish your goal, something that experience would have taught you.
“On The Job” training during an actual emergency is not prepping, unless you count “prepping to fail”.
We practice skills like building a fire, a shelter, first aid, etc., because reading them out of a survival manual in an actual survival situation is the wrong way to go about it, right?
Communications are no different.
If you’re worried about the privacy aspects, get a PO Box for your address. But honestly, my home address is out there as public record at the FCC but I don’t care because I don’t use my callsign online, nor do I have callsign plates on my car.
Ok-Secretary455@reddit
It's the broadcasting part that gets you caught right? Because you can triangulate position based on signal strength that surrounding towers recieve? But recieving a message would still be safe, yeah?
dittybopper_05H@reddit
Receiving is safe, unless they are really close by, close enough that they can figure out what frequency to which you are listening. Maybe a few hundred yards on that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_RAFTER
KQ4DAE@reddit
Yes transmitting makes you easy to find, but no with some fancy ww2 surplus you can triangulate a radio even when off by listening to the Local Oscillator.
I also suspect its possible to find an antenna by listening for a rf echo.
Kill_doozer@reddit
What is your setup?
dittybopper_05H@reddit
Home: Icom IC-735 to a Yaesu FC-301 manual tuner and a 102’ doublet up 30ish feet fed with 450 ohm window line. This is hooked up to my ham radio laptop with a SignaLink USB interface for things like FT8, Winlink, etc.
Heathkit HW-8 QRP radio powered off an LiFePO4 battery using an Emtech ZM-2 Z-match tuner. This uses my 200+ foot long wire antenna, also fed with 450 ohm window line.
Yaesu FT-2980R 2 meter radio hooked up to a homebrew plumbers delight J-pole antenna.
I have a couple of Xiegu radios not hooked up to anything (G90 and X5105) sitting as spares.
Car:
Yaesu FT-891 HF rig, powered by an LiFePO4 until I get a spare power cord to run through the firewall. I use Shark brand hamsticks for antennas, and I have a Heathkit QRP antenna tuner to “tweak” the antenna in bad weather. Mount is a big 3 magnet mag mount.
Yaesu FT-2980R to a 5/8ths wave mag mount.
My handheld is a Yaesu VX-6R.
I have various older HF rigs and handhelds that I don’t use regularly, including some that need repair.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
Btw, for those who complain about the cost of radios, that FT-891 is the first new full power HF radio I have ever got in my 36 years as a ham, and my son bought it for me as a birthday present last year.
Every other HF radio that wasn’t a QRP radio I bought used. Sometimes very used.
Sudden-Most-4797@reddit
IT professional here. If the entire internet shits the bed, I am 100% certain we'll be better off as a species in the long run. However, all I have are a couple of hand radios for me and the one good neighbor.
Torch99999@reddit
Software engineer here, and I completely agree.
EbolaPrep@reddit
The world would collapse without the internet. It would be as bad as a grid down scenario.
Sudden-Most-4797@reddit
Oh it would suck at first.
deport_racists_next@reddit
Sorry, being older than both i have to disagree.
Capstonelock@reddit
I agree. There was something so wholesome about grabbing an encyclopaedia off the shelf and learning some random facts. So different from doomscrolling reels.
cyanescens_burn@reddit
Do you realize how much of logistics for things like shipping really on the internet now? It would be catastrophic for a period of time, while everyone scrambles to figure things out the old fashioned way. All the data on who has what, bank transactions, where it goes, how to get there, and so on just gone.
deport_racists_next@reddit
Yep.
It's gonna suck.
2 degrees in IT twenty year career.
You don't see anyone from my career posting here that disagrees with me.
It's gonna sick, but it's not the end of civilization.
gustavessidehoe@reddit
Idk it would be pretty chaotic for a lot of jobs. I work in a library and everything is online now. Most libraries don't even have a card catalog anymore unless they were kind that was built into the actual wall. Almost all reference information is online. We got rid of all the paper encyclopedias because no one read them.
Who knows how it would be in the long run, but lets not pretend the transition wouldn't be incredibly chaotic for multiple years while people scrambled to learn how to deal with it.
SpeciousSophist@reddit
I have a computer with the entire works of numerous libraries and encyclopedia is downloaded, stored an off-line additions.
Smaller solar panel array, and a couple other pieces of equipment guarantees that all library materials will be available
gustavessidehoe@reddit
I thought of getting something together like that for personal reasons but it could be good to keep the library functioning too hmmm
cyanescens_burn@reddit
You can download all of Wikipedia too. I think you can for a lot of PubMed as well.
SpeciousSophist@reddit
A couple cheap tablets and a couple cheap solar panel based recharging systems and you could be providing structured learning to numerous children and adults in your community and also provide critical reference material
gustavessidehoe@reddit
Good idea!! You know, several years ago they gave us all kindle fires and they would be good for that sort of thing.
MistyMtn421@reddit
Hopefully there is a backup to what's online? Computers onsite can still be run in a network without Internet. So technically, with a bit of a workaround, it could still function.
gustavessidehoe@reddit
I think there must be, but I’m not in that side of things. I do research, order books, liaise with cataloging and booksellers, that sort of thing. I know our historical collection is backed up in multiple places, location AND format wise. I work in that collection occasionally so I know that too.
got-to-find-out@reddit
I would think that periodically it would be a good idea to create a file stored offline that could be printed out, just in case?
gustavessidehoe@reddit
That would be insane in terms how much paper it is and how frequently items are added. It would be massively out of date within a few months. Libraries are different from museums in that our collections aren’t static. We add and remove things all the time. So printed, probably not. But I’m sure there’s a way to store the files. It would probably be at least a terabyte.
deport_racists_next@reddit
No one said it would be pleasant.
EbolaPrep@reddit
I’m no spring chicken, but how would logistics work without the internet? All that data is stored in vast data centers. Food would basically not get delivered to stores. That’s just the base problem.
Half the country would starve in six months.
Docrobert8425@reddit
2-3 months tops, then you have the millions who need medication to stay alive, ect, the collapse would be utterly shocking and almost as bad as an emp.
CapGirl80@reddit
Not even adding in the layer of people who would die that actually KNOW how the past and/or present systems run. That is what worries me the most about this scenario.
Torch99999@reddit
It would work the same way it did in the late 90s.
Humans survived 6000+ years without the interwebz.
deport_racists_next@reddit
... and the way it did in the 1960s and before.
The world didn't start in 2000 folks!
Docrobert8425@reddit
Except all those systems are gone, and we wouldn't be able to even get one back online no matter how hard people tried. All the old infrastructure is gone, all the people now are trained for the digital world we live in, they literally don't have the knowledge or skills to do things any other way.
deport_racists_next@reddit
In much of the world, what you describe never existed.
We will go on
Arminas@reddit
Maybe 10% would go on, everyone else would starve inside a few months. We would not be able to replace the logistics network that now exists only on the internet in time to stop people from starving in the short term.
MistyMtn421@reddit
That's wild we are so arrogant that we have centralized so much. I am early 50's so I remember the older ways and utilize new.
I remember picking up a phone and calling product and produce orders in. Or even faxing them. UPS or whoever was able to deliver. Oftentimes it was COD (cash on delivery) and we'd pay with a check upon delivery.
But you're right, those systems, while effective, don't exist. And the time between everything going down and this getting into place would be chaotic.
iambecomesoil@reddit
Sounds like society at large dangles by a tenuous thread. I wonder if there's a community of people who prepare for such disruption.
Arminas@reddit
Yeah duh. But to say "we will go on" like millions wouldnt die is pretty insane
deport_racists_next@reddit
are you being sarcastic?
deport_racists_next@reddit
i guess we will find out.
EbolaPrep@reddit
And we survived before electricity. But government studies show that in a long term grid down event, there would be a 90% mortality rate.
This would have the same effect.
More_Passenger3988@reddit (OP)
Electricity is different I think because it allowed humans to live longer and therefore breed more humans. And with the more humans comes- the requirement of more food and ability to keep them alive.
In other words those 90% wouldn't even be alive in the first place if it weren't for electricity.
gustavessidehoe@reddit
Things were already going digital in the late 90s. You're thinking more like 1950s or maybe 60s.
gustavessidehoe@reddit
These people are unrealistic and think things will be totally fine. Our infrastructure has changed drastically in the past thirty years. A lot of the people that know how to do things the old way are retired or possibly even dead.
Would things be okay eventually if we went back to analog lives? Probably. But it would be very bad in the short to medium term.
Jaicobb@reddit
Random guy here, and I agree.
Camila_flowers@reddit
We all feel that to our bones, lol
willwork4pii@reddit
The plot was lost
grahampositive@reddit
I've thought a fair bit about this. I'm not an expert but I think the answer is somewhere between "it depends" and "no".
Non Internet communications are limited by range, security, and traceability. Range can be improved and encryption is possible, but traceability (the ability to triangulate a signal even if you can't decode it) is a physical limitation of radio communication. If you're in a situation where the government is hostile, I can't think of a safe, reliable way to send messages more than a few miles
Ham can have good range, but it's not encrypted and easily traceable. You can boost your signal with large antennae but these are power hungry and you're going to attract a lot of attention
Mesh networks like meshtastic are encrypted, and having a bunch of hidden repeaters can help you with the traceability aspect, especially if you have good sigint discipline and your device is not constantly on. But they have pretty hard range limits.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
You think mesh networks don't use radio?
ditty's second dictum: "If you radiate, you can be located. If you can be located, you can be killed"
You can easily be located. Doesn't matter how many nodes you go through, you're still radiating, and while the stuff may be encrypted, if they're in an aircraft listening (and many such aircraft exist) they can see where a particular packet originated and where its ultimate destination is.
If you transmit ham radio "in the blind", they may be able to locate you, but not your intended recipient. And direction finding isn't as accurate as most people think. Even top of the line equipment gives you locations measured in hundreds of meters unless you're right on top of them, and an uncertainty measured in dozens of kilometers when you're DF'ing a signal that is hundreds of kilometers away.
Math follows.
Say you've got a direction finder that has a +/- bearing accuracy of 0.5 degrees. And you're DF'ing a station that is 800 kilometers away. Well if you remember your high school trig, that's 800 * sin(0.5) = \~7 kilometers, so you've got a bearing inaccuracy at range of 14 kilometers. When you add more stations, you end up with an ellipse. It's never a precise measurement.
Legal operation during normal times means no encryption, true. That doesn't mean it can't be encrypted, or you can't use the same equipment on other frequencies. You just can't do it legally, and it's not advisable to do it while there is still enforcement of the regulations.
The size of the antenna has nothing to do with the power transmitted into it, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how radio works. I can make a very low power ("QRP") radio concentrate its energy in a particular direction with large but simple wire antennas that are easily to put up, and cheap enough that I can leave them if I need to be elsewhere in a hurry.
By doing that, I can make my low power radio sound at the other end like a full power radio, because while the average amount of power being radiated in all directions is the same amount as with an omnidirectional antenna, it is reducing the amount in most directions in favor of sending more RF in the desired direction.
grahampositive@reddit
Oh my goodness chill bro. I know very well that mesh uses radios - I said the distributed nature helps with being traced. If you've got 10 physically hidden nodes that they waste their time locating and your main device is powered off until you broadcast for a second and turn it back off (and leave the area) it helps but doesn't solve the issue. I know how this stuff works. I wasn't tryna give the whole ham radio operators manual to this dude who just asked if it was feasible
dittybopper_05H@reddit
They won’t be wasting time like that.
I don’t have specific knowledge because WiFi was invented long after I was in the SIGINT business but I guarantee you that there is a system that can do the traffic analysis automatically to note when a packet is originated and where it ends up.
That’s how they figured out how to break TOR.
cyanescens_burn@reddit
In what scenario would you be this concerned about someone tracking down random mesh/ham/etc users? Authoritarian gov goes to war against its citizens?
The more likely scenario in my mind is the gov fumbling and missing a cyber or infrastructure attack that knocks out comms, and people are just in a comms blackout (and the fallout downstream of that). In that case I don’t think the gov is going to want to stop groups engaging in local mutual aid to hold things together and survive while the gov tries to restore normalcy. They’d probably let things slide a bit since it’s helping. The exception being if they think you were the group that caused the blackout or you are trying to take advantage of others during it.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
The military, if it thinks such an attack came internally, is going to prioritize going after communications it can’t read.
They aren’t going to be worried as much by J. Random Ham operating in the clear with his callsign, trying to check up on the status of his Aunt Mabel.
They will be more concerned about encrypted networks that seem designed to prevent interception.
Dargkkast@reddit
I thought the actual way they used to "break" TOR was just controlling both ends of the connection, which isn't actually breaking TOR.
HalcyonKnights@reddit
Fwiw, Government Regulations are the only thing preventing you from using encryption over HAM Radio bands. If we're talking about a fall of society situation that will quickly become moot.
grahampositive@reddit
Yes I know but it would be trivial to done strike you also
bardwick@reddit
A few things.
The US government, while possible, can't really "shut down the internet". Websites are only a portion of what it is. With no internet, there is no power, no banking, no healthcare, no shipping which means no food. The US government can really do all or nothing.
The internet in Iran is State controlled. This is why they have to ability to do what they did. Not really shutting off internet, but blocking major forms of communication and confiscating/destroying starlink dishes. They run their own "internet" locally "National information Network" and whitelist allow other services, sites, etc. We don't have that type of government control, thankfully.
Even in normal times the "full" internet that we enjoy is only allowed to be accessed by select, vetting and heavily monitored individuals.
So, to your question, the possibility of it happening here are exceedingly slim, however, if so, you're stuck with HAM, which is a dying art. Using it would also mean being hunted by the military.
jamiegc1@reddit
What if telecoms are in the pocket of government or bow to intimidation? Only a few companies control the networks.
bardwick@reddit
Those companies would go broke almost immediately. The legal issues alone would bankrupt them.
Give you a small example. If a telecom did as you say, a telecom cuts of million of people from the internet. No more prescriptions would be filled, hospitals would stop receiving suppiles. Trucks would stop running, grocery stores would be empty in a day. Fuel shortages, power outages,
If this were to happen as you say, then contacting people in other countries would be the least of your worries. The civil unrest would be, by far, your biggest threat.
Emergency3030@reddit
The importance of Radio 📻.
MonkeyMan18975@reddit
Not so many of us anymore, but a lot of us rednecks are running CBs with linear amps that can hit out to 20-20 miles on a good day (not skipping.) Good enough for local communication. If we're talking skipping, Texas-Hawaii is the furthest I've ever reached.
Disclaimer: It is less than lawful to be running 2k amps on your CB and if you get enough morons in town installing amps you may see a little white van with a lot of antennae driving around town.
oriundiSP@reddit
CBs are very common among truck drivers here in Brasil. Very useful
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Truckers don’t use CB’s much here in the US. I’m near Detroit and 2 major freeways, it’s almost dead.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
I can get 20 miles with 3.5 watts using two 9 foot lengths of speaker wire, 30 feet in the air. Best DX was 1k miles.
MostlyBrine@reddit
I recall a thing called QRPP, where you could reach half way across the world with 1-5W radios. Back in thev’80s. It was all about antenna choice.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
Furthest distance for me was upstate New York to a suburb of Melbourne, Australia via long path, so roughly 14,400 miles.
I was running 20 watts CW on 20 meters from a Xiegu G90 transceiver to a Shark brand 20 meter "hamstick" style antenna. Key was a Yugoslav Army "knee key" between the two front seats.
It was actually a pretty tough contact, but we exchanged callsigns, signal reports, locations, and names through the fading. I know it was long-path because it was on 20 and the short path was nearly 100% night while long path was in daylight.
I felt pretty bad-ass all that day at work, until I got home and the distaffbopper told me to take out the trash and do the dishes.
silv3rio@reddit
If government shuts down internet, change government or change country. Take your pick
No_Pay_5856@reddit
Yes i'm ham radio operator and hv possibilities.
additional we are building and supporting a mesh network - meshtastic and meshcore are cheap and free to use. and there are already people in Iran supporting meshcom for communication.
Busy_Reporter4017@reddit
Yes. Ham Radio.
But that could get you k-lled in Iran if you aren't part of the Islamic regime.
davidm2232@reddit
If the post office is still running, snail mail is an option. You could also do a form of email by shipping flash drives back and forth.
cyanescens_burn@reddit
Post office might be going under soon. There’s news about it recently. The billionaires want all mail delivery privatized so they can control one more thing (they are working on financial infrastructure and other gov agencies as well, they’re pretty far along replacing NASA with spacex already).
peschelnet@reddit
Meshtastic
The1Zenith@reddit
Depends on how worried about signal triangulation you are. There’s meshnet and Starlink, a few others I can’t remember off the top of my head. It boils down to what alternatives are available, and you’ve prepped for, and if hiding your location is a priority.
jdaniel30@reddit
This. The internet will never be shut down completely at least in the US but heavy monitoring and restrictions are absolutely possible and probable. Starlink is a decent option as it is not prone to a shutdown either by local governments or damage inflicted on infrastructure. Unfortunately, it is entirely dependent on the capricious whims of the richest man in the world. In the case of a Starlink setup, you should be ready to shut the Wifi off and use a hardwired connection as it takes nothing more than a smartphone to find Wifi signals. While Starlink can be also located, the amount of effort and equipment required is higher. VPN options are also available but chances are that many if not most providers are likely compromised.
Rich-Interaction6920@reddit
Starlink is prone to shutdown, they shut down all non-whitelisted terminals geolocated to Ukrainian territory (targeting those operated by the Russian Military)
Any situation where a country that Elon Musk does business in or with seeks to restrict the internet is a situation where starlink access could be restricted.
jackz7776666@reddit
There are ways to get into offline networks or p2p networks like Zeronet, i2p, Freenet, etc.
Technical proficiency is varied but they do exist and are in some ways more resilient than options like Tor albeit with a different learning curve/community documentation.
Also with systems like Meshtastic as an example I can see regional networks making a comeback and piggybacking to outside networks similar to fax lines during the Arab spring.
economybadplantsgood@reddit
It'll happen soon enough and then oops here's web3 or whatever they're calling it and that'll be super concentrated form of Internet
Traktop@reddit
You didn't meniton the country you're in. If it any other country that I think, than yes, buy Starlink. If you if you in US: 70% of world internet traffic goes trough Ashburn, VIrginia.
BigJSunshine@reddit
I don’t need to. Sure, I will miss the distraction of Reddit, but I am prepped for loss of the internet
RedSquirrelFtw@reddit
At this point, no, but I really do want to look at getting into ham radio eventually. I'm working on building an off grid cabin, so once I'm better established, and figure out a way to make money and quit my job, it will give me more time for hobbies and that will be one of them.
I do try my best to avoid relying on cloud for day to day stuff though, so if I did lose internet I could more or less function.
SufficientOpening218@reddit
i think this is what HAMS are for, except every HAM ive ever known in real life only talks to other HAMS . so, not sure if they are interested in saving the rest of us!
Additional_Insect_44@reddit
You can ordinarily call without internet at least for emergencies. Also letters and walking around
Vegetaman916@reddit
Meshtastic. Good for semi-regional, anyway. I don't know about nationally, but I don't see why not.
Adorable_Dust3799@reddit
Depends on how hard. My starlink bounces through LA, but I'm close enough to the border that my cell phone regularly thinks I'm in Mexico. If Mexico is open i could probably bounce signals through that
kaishinoske1@reddit
Yes, there is of enough nodes are set up. Unfortunately you would have to set up a community for it to work.
Nerd_Porter@reddit
In most countries I think the issue wouldn't be shutting down the internet, but heavily restricting outside signals.
There are a handful of companies that control the international transit lines, and they can definitely be controlled by the US government, for example, and probably many other governments. Next up, name servers. Control the name servers and you control what people can find.
So I would think you could still access a lot of stuff, but you could see major social media and real media blackouts. You'd still be able to email your uncle.
Getting accurate news would be the tough part. Giving information about what's really happening would also be tough.
What can you do? Damn, not a lot. Perhaps having the IP addresses (the numbers) of major sites? News sites from local stations through international sites. It's entirely possible they'd shut down the name servers without cutting actual access to the IP addresses because that would still stop almost everyone from actually accessing anything, at least short term.
Thick-Cantaloupe3355@reddit
Sad we even have to worry about this shit
ciendagrace@reddit
Absolutely. Get your ham radio license. My husband and I are members of several local clubs and also ARES where we have periodic drills for this very scenario. We have learned how to send Winlink messages (like an email) with zero internet and only using radio waves. We have also trained in taking a battery box, radio, and an antenna into the woods and making contacts all around the world by using nothing but the ionosphere. We have books that show all of the emergency frequencies, etc. *So, as long as other people have been trained and know how to make contacts, yes, you can make contacts without the internet. It is also very important to have charged batteries, which we do. So, what happens when the batteries die? Have a back-up solar power source to recharge.
relianceschool@reddit
Most responses here are assuming that the government could shut down the internet. Honest question for folks in the know; would that even be feasible in a country like the US? From what I understand, there's no government-controlled "central tap" that they could simply turn off; the government would have to force ISPs to shut off service in order for that to happen.
We have a ton of bureaucratic roadblocks to that here, and for what it's worth, the tech oligarchy has a vested interest in keeping the data flowing. When we do see internet blackouts, it tends to be in small countries who had direct control over ISPs to begin with. Not saying we couldn't get there eventually, but a lot would need to happen before that step.
austinenator@reddit
Carrier Pigeons
Secret_Enthusiasm_21@reddit
it's kinda funny that you all think that in a situation in which you can't use the internet, the government has nothing better to do than trying to triangulate specifically your HF ham radio signal - and not to your general area, no, to precisely pinpoint your location.
There_Are_No_Gods@reddit
That's pretty much literally the current situation in Iran. The government, despite being engaged in an active war, seems to have a lot of time to spend on jamming internet and other signals, hunting down those trying to connect to the outside world, and following up with extreme responses.
Worldly-Swing6921@reddit
What?
Money-Alternative-96@reddit
oof that would be unforntunate
palisairuta@reddit
The internet is quite overrated in a survival prep sense. It doesn’t really help you and not essential. Radio is very helpful to receive information from the outside world. Sending information in your scenario is not advisable as it’s easily traced. Shelter in place with a radio receiver used infrequently is the safest in Iran. It’s best if you don’t hear from your loved ones.
MrD3a7h@reddit
No. My compensating control is 96TB of local storage for media. I might be cut off from the outside world, but as long as I have power, I can get drunk and/or stoned and watch movies, TV, and youtube videos and wait for it all to blow over.
If it doesn't blow over, then I have a shareable/tradable commodity.
theantnest@reddit
If your government has shut down the internet, probably better to focus on immediate things.
For the people in Iran, the internet does have a lot of good to add. Most people don't even know what they went through earlier this year.
Way smarter to focus on your local network of people, look after your loved ones and make decisions based on what is happening around you.
Ca2Alaska@reddit
Amateur Radio. Already licensed.
murrax2@reddit
Take a look at https://reticum.network
Friendly_Shopping286@reddit
There are some actually pretty highly rated shortwave radios for $9 on Amazon
You can definitely pick up BBC or other stations all around the world
dittybopper_05H@reddit
Except the BBC doesn't broadcast to North America anymore, and most English language broadcasts you hear are generally religious stations. There are a few like Radio Romania International and China Radio International that broadcast to the US.
But mostly what you're hear is either foreign language (a lot of Spanish) and religious programming.
You can occasionally hear stations like the BBC World Service when the propagation is just right, but it's not reliable.
Friendly_Shopping286@reddit
That's a bummer...but in shtf maybe they would again
greysqualll@reddit
I would say it depends on where you are and who/how the internet is "shut down". If the physical infrastructure is damaged/disconnected than the only option is what others have said, mesh networks and RF comms.
In the case of Iran/china/russia/etc it's not so much a matter of being physically disconnected, but rather a sort of state sponsored firewall. In that case, it's a matter of using technology to bypass the restrictions. Tools like a vpn, TOR, psiphon, etc...are designed to circumvent those restrictions. Of course, you have to weigh the risks. They might be actively looking for people using those tools (I think Iran actually made vpns illegal). So these are also extremely scenario dependent. But, that's an alternative to what's been mentioned already.
McRibs2024@reddit
Radios. Shortwave, HAM etc.
This summer one of my goals is to get my general license on ham. I have a handheld to practice and listen but I can’t broadcast without that license
Honestly I’ve been collected different radios for awhile now and they’re not that expensive. Picked up a PL880 for 75 bucks used on eBay in great condition. An Eton exec elite for 60. A yaesu ft60 new for my birthday last year I wanna say it was 120? Then I have a solar/hand crank sangean mmr 88 em radio and a sangean cl100 as my nightstand radio for the SAME alerts.
Granted nothing other than my yaesu can broadcast, the rest give me a ton of range frequency wise to get info.
All in everything listed has cost me in the ballpark for 500. eBay’s been my pal on this front over the years finding good deals.
HalcyonKnights@reddit
Shortwave Radio is still used and is even a central part of the amateur Radio community. Unlike most frequency bands that require line-of-sight, Shortwave bounces off the upper layers of the atmosphere and can travel well past the horizon (potentially around the world with a big enough transmitter). It requires a HAM license to mess with, though by the time the Internet is taken down, FCC enforcement wont be your biggest concern.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
Ham radio would be the only feasible way, but if the plan is to have constant contact (or contact often enough to get and pass along news to the outside), triangulation might be used to shut down potential threats to the imposed comms blackout.