81 years ago today, prisoners of the Jasenovac concentration camp staged a desperate breakout. How does your country teach this part of history?”
Posted by Kranvagen@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 58 comments
Today marks the anniversary of the Jasenovac breakout—the moment when prisoners launched a final, desperate charge for freedom after realizing they were facing certain liquidation.
Of the 600 prisoners who attempted the escape, only 117 survived the machine-gun fire and the pursuit. On the same day, a separate breakout from the “Kožara” section left only 11 survivors out of 147. These survivors became the voices that ensured the world would never forget what happened behind those wires.
I’m curious—how is the history of WWII concentration camps, specifically Jasenovac, taught in your country? Is it covered in school curricula, and how much detail is usually provided?
Magistar_Idrisi@reddit
Jasenovac is barely mentioned. I mean, it is mentioned in school textbooks, but it's basically a side note.
Most kids in modern-day Croatia do know about Jasenovac, but they probably have no idea what it actually looked like and what it's purpose was.
DZagor@reddit
Don't know where you went to school, but Jasenovac is always mentioned as the biggest of the camps. And the numbers in the school books are in line with the ones mentioned by the memorial in Jasenovac. Holocaust and genocide in NDH is well tought in schools. Some of them take kids to Jasenovac. Usualy as part of a trip to Vukovar to show what nationalism does to oridinary people and how in the end it turns against it's own people. The politics and government is the oposite of it. The turn made by Plenkovic in the last 2-3 years is a disgrace for a civilized person.
N_ikolajevna@reddit
Yes but because of familiar curricular problemsđ The syllabus is just way too bloated. It spans from the 1918 SHS to modern European integration, covering Croatian/European/ and a little bit of World history across five separate categories (politics, society, etc.). It’s just too much ground to cover in way too little time.
Few-Age3034@reddit
It doesn’t seem so bloated, which grade is this? I remember studying everything from the Thracians and Romans up until modern times in the 10th grade (last year where history is compulsory in Bulgaria)
N_ikolajevna@reddit
To give you some context on the Croatian school system: history is a mandatory subject from age 11 until the end of high school (usually age 18). While that sounds like a lot, the way it"s structured is a mess.
I teach at a gymnasium. In the final year, we have 3 hours of history a week (about 96 hours a year). 18 mandatory topics (not lessons, but big themes) and at least two electives. We cover politics, economy, society, etc., focusing on Croatian/European/and less World history from the end of WWI up to Croatia joining the EU.
Once you factor in exams, grading, and reviews, Im left with only about 65 hours to actually teach new stuff at best. For example, I just had to cover the entire War in Bosnia, an incredibly complex and vital piece, in just 90 minutes.
It's the same struggle with the interwar period or the socialist era. These are the foundations students need to understand the political mess we see later yet we are somehow forced to rush through them.
Of course, we still have some professional freedom, and I try to make the most of it an do my best to give my students a solid foundation and prepare them so that the knowledge and some skills actually serve them later, but honestly the way the system is set up makes it feel almost impossible at times.
Magistar_Idrisi@reddit
Sure. But Jasenovac was the single biggest death camp in Southeast Europe. It should be the focus of at least one full class and some extracurricular activities.
N_ikolajevna@reddit
Look, I dedicate a few periods specifically to the crimes of the NDH, but trust me, you don’t even want to know how little time there is for any major 20th-century event.
Magistar_Idrisi@reddit
Ah believe me, I know.
My comment wasn't a critique of teachers, but of the curriculum.
N_ikolajevna@reddit
Absolutely, and I don't even think it's some hidden political agenda, just pure systemic inertia and laziness. Even the "sacred" national myths that the current narrative is based on are covered in the same messy way
Magistar_Idrisi@reddit
I do think there is an agenda, but it has been low-key for most of our post-yugo history. The historical revisionism is becoming more blatant now that we have actual Ustaše sympathizers in government.
Re: national myths, yeah, everything is messy. I was surprised to realize just how... old-fashioned the curriculum regarding medieval history is. It sounds like something from a 19th century textbook. The Yugoslav Wars of the 90s are also not really covered in depth during classes, but there are a lot of extracurricular activities dedicated to the war. And those can be uh... a bit problematic, tbh.
N_ikolajevna@reddit
True, bigger problem is what students are exposed to outside of school and it's particularly frustrating to me that this occasionally undermines everything we try to achieve in the classroom.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
get ready for a history lesson about the nedime regime from the many experts on serbian history /s
Austria doesnt teach it in schools but through some documentaries about Diana Budisavljevic for example. Shes highly honoured for her unbelieveable service, really sad that happened to her legacy in the actual region. There is a gut wrenching documentary if ur german speaking on her.
Der Massenmörder und die Kinderretterin.
https://on.orf.at/video/14098676/die-kinderretterin-und-der-massenmoerder
Kranvagen@reddit (OP)
Exactly—if it wasn’t for Diana, who knows how many more thousands of children would have ended up in the pits around the Sava river or in the river itself.
But what does Milan Nedić have to do with this post? I’m asking about the scale of the atrocities and how this specific site of suffering is represented in school textbooks and global memory.
The whole world knows about Auschwitz and Dachau, as they should. Yet, Jasenovac, which was one of the largest and most brutal camp systems in Europe, remains largely unknown or ignored outside the Balkans. That’s the point of my question: Why is this 'Balkan Auschwitz' so often sidelined in international history classes?
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
It was an ironic statement on nedic.
In my opinion mostly because of Tito, he made sure that this genocide is not talked about and buried. I mean he was a dictator and fighting against Serbia in WW1 already on behalf of the AH Empire.
Magistar_Idrisi@reddit
That's a surreal take. The Jasenovac memorial center was built during socialist Yugoslavia, and basically every school in Croatia had to visit it.
There were literally hundreds of books written about the persecution of Serbs in the NDH during Tito's time. Movies, documentaries, series...
Nationalists will really say any baseless claim just to talk shit about Tito.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
If you claim would bear even a little truth the perception on this time would look fundamentally different in Croatia.
thats also why they didnt do anything to bring the childrens back, they literally burned the documents from Budisavljevic.
in the documentary you have Serbs speaking how they were treated by their new croat "families". Imagine the injustice, just try.
Magistar_Idrisi@reddit
Are you claiming that the Jasenovac memorial center wasn't built during Tito's time? Are you claiming that the persecution of Serbs wasn't mentioned in socialist Yugoslavia? Delulu
I'll be unhappy to inform you that socialist Yugoslavia has been dead for 35 years now, and that we had a little war in the meantime - all of which helped our nationalists to change the public perception of the NDH. Nothing to do with Tito.
They didn't burn shit. The entire archive was located a couple years ago.
Some were mistreated by their foster families, most were not.
CataphractBunny@reddit
You are engaging with a dedicated chetnik shill larping as an Austrian.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
who cares ? do you think that the victims got any justice ?
I understand you love yugoslavia but it is exactly this ignorant mindset that already layed the foundation for later misstrust.
the perception of Jasenovac was fundamentally flawed during Yugoslavia. The exhibitions were later (1980s) abused by both sides to extreme levels.
you really dont grasp how deeply rooted the problem is, and i dont understand why not deal with the topic academically and grown up.
Magistar_Idrisi@reddit
What exactly was "flawed" in the perception of Jasenovac during Yugoslavia? Apart from the inflated numbers (700.000) used for war reparations. Like, I genuinely do not know what you're talking about.
What would you consider justice? All of the commanders of Jasenovac who the Communists could get their hands on were tried and executed in the late 1940s. Thousands of Ustaše were summarily executed already in 1945. The Yugoslav state also tried to get Ustaše emigres extradited for trial - just look up the Artuković trial in the 1980s, it took Yugoslavia 30 years to get the US to extradite the fucker. And let's not forget all the good work UDBA did in deleting genocidal murderers like Luburić.
So again, the question is: what would you consider justice?
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
no doubt about that.
https://ijhmc.arphahub.com/article/71583/list/8/
The manipulations and misuses of Jasenovac’s tragic past originated at the end of the Second World War and permeated socialist Yugoslavia. However, the distortions reached a new level in the second half of 1980s.
you really dont grasp how deeply rooted this problem is wich is fine and you look back through a lense of nostalgic to Yugoslavia so there is certain bias as well (wich is human)
and no they dont got justice at all, see how the legacy of the crimes against them is carried. Many of my relatives perished in Jasenovac and you can imagine what it feels like when you enter ur surname and many pages pop up on the Jasenovac page.
I consider the bare minimum of justice that somebody takes accountability for the crimes that were comitted to this people but we live in reality where Croatia celeberates its expulsion of the minority that they one systemetically tried to exterminate.
I have no doubt that the perception of all this will fundamentally change at one point within Croatia but it will take time since its a very painful process.
and its not only about killing generals and war criminals... let alone that many lived a chill life till their end.
Trajektolinija@reddit
In Croatia, government refuses to recognise that there was a genocide over the Serbs because the rulling coalition is consisted of far-right Homeland movement in coaliation with center-right HDZ.
Former director of Jasenovac Memorial Site Ivo Pejaković recently resigned over the constant pressure he was under, and refusal of government to recognise the genocide over the Serbs. Now, the government can't find a new director because noone wants to work over that kind of pressure.
When there was a last tender; only two people applied, one of which was a negationist and quasi-historian Igor Vukić who claims there were no mass murders in Jasenovac. Then government simply cancelled the tender.
Plenković formally comes to Jasenovac and holds the speech of how he supports the institution, while in reality HDZ completely degraded the institution. I don't even understand why representatives of people who were victims: Serbs, Jews and other agreed to attend the commemoration with representatives of Plenković's government.
Kranvagen@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately, politics has completely overtaken human decency. Instead of all the presidents and prime ministers of this region gathering today to show the world that we are capable of shared mourning and maturity, they choose to deepen the divide.
By turning a day of remembrance into a platform for petty nationalistic scoring, they are only ensuring that our history remains a wound that never heals. It’s a missed opportunity to show the world that we have finally moved past the hatred, and it’s the victims who pay the price for it once again.
Trajektolinija@reddit
I agree. That was a very dark chapter of Croatian history, but unfortunately instead of facing it like civilised people do, Croatia recently chose to mitigate/deny/sweep it under the rug.
CataphractBunny@reddit
It's also a very bright chapter of Croatian history as the Croatian people rose up in armed rebellion against the occupiers and the traitors immediately. Tens of thousands of Croatians died fighting these bastards, and securing our freedom.
DartVejder@reddit
Dalmatians did because they were sold off to Italians. Shame for that region now, totally opposite of what it historically was.
Rest of Croatia didn't, not until late '42 and '43. Official documents show that Partisans were predominantly Serbs in both Croatia and BIH throughout '41 and '42, for obvious reasons. Serbs remained a majority in Partisans throughout the war on territory of BiH.
Of course I'm talking about foot soldiers who were recruited after the war started and not the leading officers affiliated with the communist party.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Please stop lying. Thank you.
DartVejder@reddit
It's the official data, you can look it up, and it makes sense logically as NDH regime didn't bother ordinary Croatians and so there was no urgency to join the fight immediately.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Both your history and geography knowledge need work. Sisak is not in Dalmatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisak_People%27s_Liberation_Partisan_Detachment
You can follow your own advice. But, to make things as easy as I can for you, I made this handy little map:
You're welcome.
DartVejder@reddit
You said "Croatian people rose up in rebellion" whereas that uprising was conducted by 79 members of the communist party. I specifically mentioned in my comment above that I wasn't talking about them.
That doesn't in any way qualify as "Croatian people". It's totally out of context and basically historical revisionism.
Croatian people in this context would mean ordinary Croatian folk unaffiliated with politics and conflict.
In reality, it was the Serbs who created mass uprisings and Tito took opportunity to recruit them into Partisans.
Here you can see a map where first uprisings in '41 happened exactly match the areas where Serbs live.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Most of whom were Croats. Or are you trying to say there were no communist Croats? Not really sure what your logic is here.
I gave you the map where the first uprising started, and how it wasn't in Dalmatia. You can thank me and move on. Or keep entertaining me with your futile attempts at dodging the fact you were wrong in your statements.
Imaginary_String_814@reddit
its actually wild that people down/up vote base on emotions rather actual facts.
i am not suprised but it shows the utterly low quality and broader low edcuation on the sub. People care only about narratives, so serbs cant be victims.
It is very well documented that Serbs were the majority within Croatian Partisians for a long time and they had a hard time recruting soliders at all for the partisan movement.
(Djilas - Wartime by Milovan Djilas who was actually there during the recruitment process)
CataphractBunny@reddit
The actual facts are that he's either lying deliberately or doesn't know what he's talking about. Which makes it perfectly understandable that you would agree with him.
CasperGwamm@reddit
RemindMe! 210 days
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Zeda1002@reddit
Why are you deliberately lying, when did government deny genocide over the Serbs?
CataphractBunny@reddit
Because they get a lot of money from the government.
Trajektolinija@reddit
Well, that's not going to get the situation any better. If anything, they should get a spine and raise a constitutional lawsuit to ban Za dom spremni completely, since it is illegal under Croatian constitution, but right wing lawyers do a very good job to prevent that question from ever reaching Croatian constitutional court.
CataphractBunny@reddit
Why get a spine if you can get loads of money for doing nothing?
Turbulent-Debate7661@reddit
it doesnt
kuhinjski@reddit
Honestly, i dont remember learning anything about it in Serbian school so i dont know if we should expect Croatians to pay much more attention to it than us.
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
I don't know when, where or which school you went to but we absolutely did learn about it, also I hope you do realize how that is mostly dependent on your teacher, can't speak for everyone.
erythrocytes235@reddit
First time hearing it.
cressida0x0@reddit
The holocaust itself is barely touched in Albania. I don't remember more than 1-2 history chapters on it back in school.
marsupialBasher@reddit
We mostly did go through this part of history (when i last learned history in school 10ish years ago), but not in great detail. I would agree with the rest of commenters, its not because that part of history is disrespected for its importance, but there was so much facts and areas we had to learn in small span of time.
P.S. A small side note some may find interesting (its mostly my opinion): There is a level of mental separation that is present when speaking about NDH (not in a good or bad manner, just stating it as is).
When Croatians speak about NDH, its mostly referred as "they" and not "we", and this is consistent even with constitution itself, which does not recognise NDH as predecessor to Croatia, but a puppet state out of our control.
karlowolf05@reddit
You literally hear about it everyday in Croatia, whatever the context is...
FadeIntoYou2222@reddit
sve dok hrvatska postoji kao hrvatska, kao naslednica ustasluka, genocida, tompsona, katolicanstva i ostalih sranja na balkanu mira nece biti. ista prica sa bosnom i siptarijom
NoSync22@reddit
Absolutely agreed about Croatia, which has got an enormous problem reckoning with its history, but saying that Croatia, Bosnia and Albania are the obstacle to peace in the Balkans and leaving out Serbia… lol, c’mon man.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Serbia made sure in the 90s that we don't "teach this part of history". It is like what our politicians do to hide a big scandal. They usually cover it with another bigger scandal.
Kranvagen@reddit (OP)
Jasenovac wasn’t a 'scandal'; it was a death factory. If you need the political context of the 90s to justify your dismissal of a genocide from the 40s, then your problem isn't with history—it's with basic human empathy. Victims don’t have an expiration date, and they certainly don’t belong to any political party.
Ujemegaz@reddit
I choose to believe you. Yet, people are more affected by events they lived themselves recently, live. But this is not the topic here. I was just saying that recent events overshadowed previous events from getting due attention. That is all.
TightAd1489@reddit
Serbians oppressed albanians so good there are no serbians left in Kosovo, that's all truth about Kosovo genocide there is to talk, pedophile clinton statues in prishtina sure won't lie who was on the right side
Ujemegaz@reddit
See. This is what i am talking about. Keep crying about Jasenovac, then.
TightAd1489@reddit
See what? Truth? Unlike someone here I see it perfectly
caseygloop@reddit
In Croatia, 4th grade of elementary school, ustaše and world wars are mentioned, then in eight grade there are few hours of history class about ustaše and what were they doing, than in secondary school, year 2, 3 or 4 depends what kind of school it is, again few hours of history class about it, and after that if you want you can study it on some universities, also there is commemoration in Jasenovac every year on this day since I can remember
N_ikolajevna@reddit
As a history teacher in Croatia, yes, we do cover it. Nowadays, textbooks generally present a very objective view of the situation without leaving anything out. Personally, I make an effort to dedicate a lot of time to the 20th century, especially national historx, because I believe it's crucial for students to develop a fact based critical perspective given the circumstances we live in
True-Blacksmith4235@reddit
It is not taught extensively in schools, but we do learn, that it was, along with other NDH crimes, a genocide.
Suitable-Decision-26@reddit
It isn't. There are sime mentions of the Nazi ones but that is all.