Advice on moving back to the US
Posted by Inner_Firefighter347@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 76 comments
I have lived in Germany 9 years now. I always kept the option open of returning back to the US though. I am from Pittsburgh and it is such a special place. As time has gone on in Germany, I have not felt the same connection as I do at home. My husband, who is German, recently told me he would not consider moving there even if Trump is no longer president. That has sent me into a spiral, as he always made it seem he would be open to the idea. I feel hurt because I upended my whole life to come to Germany and now he won‘t even consider doing the same for me. The issue is we have a beautiful, amazing 17 month old daughter. I refuse to live without her but also feel horrible about the idea of her not growing up with her dad. I understand my privileges of living in a country with universal healthcare, gun control laws, no at-will firings, 30 days of vacation time, etc. But I just feel like those nice things can‘t replace the culture, creativity, and friendliness of my hometown. So I guess I am desperate for any advice, whatever that may be
Gatitochikito@reddit
I'm from Ecuador (in Latin America next to Colombia) and currently selling a beautiful house for a very convenient price. This country is so peaceful, has a lot of beautiful natural places and culturally rich communites. If anyone interested I can give my email.
n0witsn0@reddit
Don't.
grsk_iboluna@reddit
Forget about all the above comments because none of that matters in your case as much as the following:
You will not be allowed to take your daughter and return unless he allows you to. If you do, you will be in violation of The Hague Convention https://www.hcch.net/en/instruments/conventions/full-text/?cid=24
If she was born in Germany and has resided in Germany her whole life, her status is that Germany has been her habitual residence and your husband can file an application to have your child returned to Germany. You may or may not be arrested, but you would have to go to court in the USA and the courts would likely rule that the child must return to Germany because you’ve been married and living together as custodial parents.
Unless he allows you to take her with you, you can’t move back home. Unless you go alone. I’m sorry to be the one to tell you that.
Misty-knight200@reddit
Yeah, I stopped reading at 17 month old daughter.
Not sure why OP thinks taking her is an option. And the post doesn't state that the Dad is supportive of being separated from his child.
grsk_iboluna@reddit
Exactly. She’s probably stuck there for the next 17 years or so. Happens to so many people, but mainly women.
Jakexbox@reddit
Well she's not stuck. Just stuck in Germany...
grsk_iboluna@reddit
I meant Germany when I said there.
Jakexbox@reddit
Yeah, figured!
Less for you more for the convo.
No_Vegetable7280@reddit
Hear me out. 9 years is a long time to be away. It’s easy to remember fondly what it’s like to live in the USA. I get it, and I did that. I lived in Europe for 10 years. Then I moved back in o the US for the same reasons you mentioned and it’s my single biggest regret.
Even though while living in Europe, I came back to visit the US many times, I didn’t really have the experience of working/ living the realities of being in the US again. So I thought I missed the same things you mentioned. I moved back.
Shortly into moving back to the US, finding a job, establishing my social circle I knew I made a huge mistake. It’s taken me over 10 years to save up enough money to move back. It will be harder this time to establish myself in Europe, but the benefits out weigh the costs.
The constant toxic work environments for a wage that seems big from a European point of view but the cost of living and quality of life in the US is out of control. Healthcare is serious, and you have a child now, so if you move back with that child’s healthcare will be more expensive, less efficient, and more time consuming than you think. Much more, and jobs don’t care and often will punish you for taking time off. No guaranteed vacation, no worker protections. No social safety nets, none, ZERO. The political divide is serious, the violence here is serious. Especially for women.
In my opinion, if I were you, I would come back for visits more regularly or find an artistic community in another European country you can visit regularly. The US is not what you think it is right now. It’s much worse than I thought it was 10 years ago too.
Just think hard. This is a choice you may not be able to reverse for a long long time if you do choose it.
GleesBid@reddit
Thank you for this!
Legovida8@reddit
I agree with you. I lived abroad for many years, and my greatest regret is moving back to the US. Had I been able to foresee what the US would endure during the past decade or so, there is no way I would have moved back here. I genuinely regret it, every single day, especially since I was diagnosed with cancer & am now also stuck dealing with the abysmal state of healthcare in this country.
Scary-Net4413@reddit
Good advice. It's especially meaningful advice because you relate to OP's specific reasons for moving back. I'll remember this whenever I start to romanticize the US again. Thank you!
No_Vegetable7280@reddit
It really is easy to remember the good times in the US and forget about daily life. It’s also easy to take for granted the socialized benefits and protections that are available in European countries. If I had my own advice before leaving Europe, I would have never left. I miss taking an evening stroll by myself on a warm summers night. It sounds so small but it’s a freedom that may of us don’t have, due to so so many factors in the US.
Scary-Net4413@reddit
Can I ask, since you visited the US so much while living in Europe, what specifically happened in the US after you moved back that made it clear you had made a mistake? I'm just curious what kind of experiences immediately struck you as making the move "not worth it"
No_Vegetable7280@reddit
All of this happened within the first year of me being back to the US:
Cost of living for one. It’s so expensive and to live here. Your wage isn’t what you bring home, cuz everything is taxed; income, personal property (car/home/bikes etc), gas tax, purchases, utilities…. Prices keep going up and you can do nothing about it. I’ve also had a whole month of my wages stolen by my employer and there was nothing I could do. It’s especially hard when you’re already struggling to make ends meet. Oh and the lack of time off. It’s dependent on the employer but it’s typically 2 weeks a year. It includes being sick, many places you have to take vacation time to recover from getting sick. It really shocked me how little they gave you and how it impacts your regular life. I intellectually knew it before but I didn’t care much when I was younger. Now, it’s a whole different story. 15 years later and there are still no worker protections.
I needed a car- it’s so expensive to have a car payment, insurance, registration, and inspection. Very rare instances you don’t need a car. If you don’t live in a major city with a metro, you will need a car, and even in LA has a metro, but vehicle is non negotiable. This was a huge chunk of my money upfront when I moved back, and remains expensive cuz of yearly maintenance, gas, taxes, registration etc.
The danger- I have been followed home many many times, threatened violence in public spaces. I had a friend get into a bar fight resulting in a hospital stay. My house was broken into and my computer, TV, some sentimental items stolen and they trashed everything else. Renters insurance wouldn’t cover it for some reason. My car got broken into regularly, and still does to be honest.
Healthcare- by comparison, the cost , quality and efficiency in the US is in the trash. It took me over 6 months to get established with a primary care, and for OBGYN there is a 9 month waiting list just to get an appointment . What was I supposed to do when I sick if I couldn’t get appointments for 6 months? Just go to the ER or urgent care for everything, but that became prohibitively expensive cuz insurance required a 300$ co pay every time I went. Then meds are extra, and insurance may not think the visit was medically necessary so they sent me a bill for thousands of dollars.
The first year I got here after all this, I was just shocked at the way the systems are set up. I remember being very frustrated and scared that everywhere I looked the system was set up to take your money. Especially when I got hit with that medical bill. I went to get treatment for tonsillitis, it was so painful and I was so so so sick I could hardly move. Huge fever- and the insurance just determined it was medically necessary for me to get any help. It just broke me. I was working so hard already. Just thinking about that year and how awful it felt, makes me want to cry.
The way I think about it is, I work a lot more than I did in Europe just to afford to live, not thrive. It’s more about survival here not so much having a life with interests. When I lived in Europe, I could work full time, feel fulfilled, and enjoy my life, and have hobbies at the same time. Was I rich, no, but I was taken care of. I could go to the doctors when I was sick without fear of being bankrupted. I went to bars, restaurants etc, sometimes there were fights but it was typically a shouting match. I could walk on the streets if the city at night without fear. If I got ripped off from my employer I was provided assistance to get by until the authorities would make it right. I knew my neighbors and they knew me.
Scary-Net4413@reddit
Damn! That's a lot. What terrible city is this? But I totally understand. I mean taxes are higher in Europe generally and it's even more expensive to own a car here but the medical care is so much better. I hope you make it back soon!
No_Vegetable7280@reddit
I’m not going to call out where I live but it’s within 100 miles of Washington DC
Scary-Net4413@reddit
Got it
Sounders1@reddit
What city is that dangerous?
B3stThereEverWas@reddit
You're fucking kidding.
You're seriously telling me the average american can't go for a stroll by themselves on a warm summers night?
You sound like the typical neurotic Reddit weirdo who's afraid of their own shadow.
Life_Rabbit_1438@reddit
When someone moves back to America with no recent work history, they are going to have trouble finding a good job. No good job, and you live in a bad area, which can have danger.
That's obviously not the typical American experience, nowhere near it.
eternallytiredcatmom@reddit
You also aren’t used to the lack of trust people have for each other anymore. You’re not desensitized to some risks like gun violence either.
No_Vegetable7280@reddit
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
No_Vegetable7280@reddit
In a major city at Inight as a woman- that’s exactly what I’m saying you incredulous bitch.
STRAIGHTUPGANGS@reddit
Anyone can go for a stroll, its about having the proper environment where you actually want to do those things. I live outside of the US and I can take a stroll anytime I want because I can walk to a park and hangout. In the US I mean where can I take a walk to? The fucking dollar general down the road? Im good brother I'll stay inside.
Gunzhard22@reddit
America is less safe, by all measurable standards, than most European countries, for women.
The facts about sexual assault are pretty insane actually.
Sounders1@reddit
France, Northern Ireland, England, Finland, and Scotland all have higher rapes per capita than the US.
Comprehensive_Link67@reddit
I suspect that has more to do with the reporting rate than the actual assault rate. I was SA'd in the US and the police didn't beleive me. Women are shamed and disbelieved regularly in the US.
martinmaple@reddit
BOOM! 💥👊🏼
Mental-Respond1700@reddit
Feelings are easy; custody and Hague issues are the real problem. borderpilot can sanity-check visas, tax, and the boring admin before you decide on nostalgia.
Sufficient-Job7098@reddit
So it looks like husband will face significant downgrade in many aspects if he were to move to US.
Anonymous30005000@reddit
Girl, you are in Germany. So many other countries to visit nearby, and I’m assuming you speak German, unless you totally dropped the ball. So go on some little trips to German-speaking Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, and maybe Strasbourg, France. I don’t know anything about Luxembourg or Liechtenstein, but they speak German, too. If you end up divorcing you’re going to need to live close enough for shared custody commute.
GoingGray62@reddit
Ma'am, the America you remember died in 2015. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Anonymous30005000@reddit
Yes. Those were the days of millennials going out on the town and making friends with random strangers. 2020 was the final nail in the coffin for spontaneous friendly socialization outside. She needs to wake up and face reality.
The-American-Abroad@reddit
I left the US in 2015 and it’s so bizarre that it really was kind of a turning point. Every time I go back it seems worse and worse.
abovepostisfunnier@reddit
Unless he doesn't care about your child you're simply not leaving Germany with her. It's wild to me that you would even think that's something you'd be allowed to do.
ultimomono@reddit
It sounds like your issues with you husband must be a lot deeper than this to consider ending the relationship after living there for nine years and building a life there
And probably changed his mind due to new information about the kind of country the US is. That can happen.
I could maybe see this if you were a few years in and things didn't work out well... but you're talking about NINE years and with a small child and a world sliding toward WWIII. Having a child can dredge up a lot of feelings. Have. you tried talking to a therapist about this?
My advice: stop arguing with your husband. Go back and spend a month or two, together or just you. Scratch that itch and see how it feels 9 years older and in the US of today
freedomisgreat4@reddit
Please realize right now in the USA the following: EPA is stripped, health dept stripped of funds and serious research into cancer etc stopped, workers rights stripped. Socially people are divided and decent animosity between each other. Education is also being degraded w the push for religion to be brought back into school. Many who can are leaving or planning to leave. Courts are political and not about justice. It’s not the country that you left and it won’t be for a very long time. Not the time to return and won’t be.
Top-Half7224@reddit
Running away to a foreign country isnt going to solve those problems. Europe has plenty of its own issues.
Boy-Abunda@reddit
Europe, especially Western Europe right now has universal healthcare, walkable spaces, a commitment to public education, scalable public transport, where there are cars, commitment to electrification / decarbonization of transport, gun regulations and a lack of mass shootings, adult (mostly) political leadership, and actual environmental and food regulations. The gulf between Europe and the US is large and growing in those areas. Sometimes, when the majority of your citizens don’t see the countries problems AS problems, and you do, then it is time to “run away.”
Flaponflappa@reddit
Not like us. They don't have a pedophile ring-leader president elected by the people running the whole world into the ground. "It's like that everywhere" is such a cop out.
Danobex@reddit
I left US in 2017, lived abroad during Covid (in China), and moved back in 2023. US has changed. The social climate has changed, people are much angrier, nastier even. People you know and grew up with will have formed their own lives and friendships. The family you grew up with will have moved on, still act as if you are still living far away. The job environment is nightmarish. Prices are up everywhere, and many times outrageously so. I left after a year of trying realizing the dream I had left was now just that, a dream.
What you remember of Pittsburgh will be a memory. Cherish it, but I can bet it’s not the same as what you recalled it to be. If you don’t believe this, at least go back and spend time there for a month or three before deciding to uproot your current life to try something new that your partner doesn’t want to do.
JefferyNommer@reddit
Dude if you so much as visit right now you might be detained like other people. You might vanish. You are insane to want to come here right now. Last I checked Philly had a chapter of the Black Panther armed to dissuade ICE from attacking people. Shit's expensive. Weather is dangerous. I mean seriously dangerous. Stay in Germany for right now. You may not be able to leave again. And if you changed your last name, guess what? You might not be able to vote either. If you end up with someone else and get pregnant, accidentally or not, some states are fucking jailing women for miscarriage, trying to enact the death penalty, and women are dying from lack of care because doctors don't know if they can legally help them. Things. Are. Buts. Do. Not. Come. Here. The US is not the same as you left it. The culture is not the same as nine years ago.
Gunzhard22@reddit
Well things have drastically changed and incredibly fast. If you're white, it might, more or less, feel about the same to you for a bit.
But at the very least, consider that the cost of living has absolutely skyrocketed here. Everything is getting shittier at an alarming rate.
No-Werewolf541@reddit
The cost of living has sky rocketed everywhere. Including Germany. What does being white have to do with anything?
Gunzhard22@reddit
Well snowflake, black and brown people are being terrorized at home, that's what it has to do with it.
No-Werewolf541@reddit
Yeah okay 👌
gertation@reddit
you're not asking the same of him and it's very unfair to claim that. He asked you to move to Germany, and that's it. Now a decade later you are asking him to move his daughter away from the safety of Germany into an unstable authoritarian mess for the sake of your nostalgia.
Comprehensive_Link67@reddit
Maybe it's just me but even if you could take your daughter, I would not want to raise a child in Trump's America. Especially not a girl. Pittsburgh really is one of the more underrated cities in the US but it is still in the US and things are not good there ATM. I think the US is at the start of major decline in all ways.
I suggest waiting to see how things pan out once the regime is out of power before even trying to move back.
Have you been back recently? I wonder if the your nostalgia will prove out once you are there. I've lived in Europe for about 8 years and went back about 5 months ago. I thought I would be very happy catching up with friends and family but it all felt stressful and toxic.
Brostradamus-2@reddit
First of all, you are out of your fucking mind to want to move back to America right now. Second of all, you can't take your daughter here without your husband even if you wanted to unless he allows it.
allergicturtle@reddit
Girl I feel you, I'm 6 1/2 years in Germany also together with a local. The social vibe in many places is such a downer, they are very negative and complain so often. Super inflexible and lacking creativity in the workplace, years behind the US or even UK in innovation. Also I waited 8 months for a friggen mammogram here, and we pay out of pocket on top of public insurance for basic tests. Mental health care is basically inaccessible, year long waiting list!
Anyway I know a person who was in your situation. She divorced the German and then splits her time between the UK, US and Germany. She sees her daughter often but she can't take her out of Germany. Until I met her I thought that type of solution was crazy but their relationship is healthy so there are always solutions where mom or dad doesn't have to be miserable and resentful stuck in a bad environment.
--2021--@reddit
When was the last time you visited home? Is it like you remember? Are your friends and family still around?
I've moved back to my hometown some time ago. It wasn't a move I was excited about, but I thought I'd have the comfort of the familiar. And it's completely changed. As it changes more over time it feels less familar, and I feel progressively more separated from it. All the young transplants moving in, the gentrification. It's not the same home.
And it will keep changing. All the people I knew left, or were basically strangers to me because they continued to live their lives day to day and I wasn't part of that. Had to start over. Only nostalgia stops, nothing else does.
BadmashN@reddit
You both should align on what your priorities are in terms of lifestyle and what you value and then determine what is the ideal scenario. Also, places and people change, so before you make a decision it’s important to make sure you know what the place is like now, and that you’re not romanticising about what a place was (it may be the same, better or worse.)
anniiebananie@reddit
Honestly I don't blame your husband. The US is getting less and less enticing as a destination and it won't be fixed by Trump being gone.
Also, have you thought about in which country you'd give the best life for your child? I am an American living abroad in France, and I feel my daughter will have a better life in France. No mass shooter drills at school, better work-life balance for me to spend time with her, far more affordable healthcare and childcare, etc. But that's just my personal viewpoint, yours may be different.
ExcellentWinner7542@reddit
You'll have to leave the child behind.
Scary-Net4413@reddit
Are you even able legally to move there without him, taking the child? While she's young is a great time to go visit for a longer period of time to see how it feels to be back. I'm guessing you have family in the US too? It's a big deal to raise children without the support of your family. Especially if you don't connect with his.
LeneHansen1234@reddit
Unless he gives consent she can't, no. So basically she is stuck for the next 1,5 decades.
Scary-Net4413@reddit
That's what I thought
B3stThereEverWas@reddit
They can't, and they won't.
Unless you're in a completely unskilled dead end job, you already know you still get PTO and healthcare, it's not nothing.
Also German healthcare is sucking more and more and the country is slowly going down the tubes.
If you're sad and lonely and miss home, move back. The US is safer and richer than it was 10 years ago. These are data facts so don't let anyone tell you otherwise
LeneHansen1234@reddit
She would have to go without her kid.
Sufficient-Job7098@reddit
What steps did you take to keep this option open?
Most immigrants have this option without having to do anything to keep this option available.
Did you maybe had a lawyer to come up with some specific custody agreement that would allow you to take your child back to US?
Life_Rabbit_1438@reddit
You both need to be fully on board with moving to America or it could never work.
US pays far more money than Europe for the same level of work, but also has a higher cost of living. For most this still leaves you financially far better off in the US.
However, when first moving without recent local work experience, you will both earn far less than market rates. So you have the higher cost of living without pairing the higher incomes. After a year or 2, you can change jobs and that issue goes away. But if you both aren't fully on board with the move, it will build resentment in the tougher first couple of years.
FinestTreesInDa7Seas@reddit
Your husband sounds like a sensible person. I own a house in the US, and even I won't set foot in the US in the current political situation there.
NessaBeast@reddit
If you ever want to chat, feel free to DM me. I am in a similar situation, 10 yrs now and also a yinzer. My spouse is German. However, we have no kids. I am always homesick while also recognizing the benefits I have from living here.
Teach-Chemical@reddit
I agree with the other comments and feel for what you’re going through. I can imagine that this is a very disorienting and big decision to be making.
I had one thought that I wanted to share and I completely understand if you disagree. It’s not fair to hold it against your husband that he doesn’t want to move to the US even if you moved for him previously. Unless this is something that he’s conveyed he would do in the past and is not changing his tune, we all have the right to have boundaries and make decisions for ourselves even when part of a marriage.
This narrative or framing that you have of “him not being willing to do something that you were willing to do for him” isn’t fair and seems to be making you feel hurt or not cared for. I think that he can feel that way while also being a great and supportive partner.
Flaponflappa@reddit
Our economy is tanking. Inflation booming. Jobs declining. Rights eroding. Working class immigrant families are being rounded up and detained. White rich people and pedophiles are loving it though.
Gunzhard22@reddit
This.
flushbunking@reddit
I sincerely love PGH, but it’s a hard sell from a highly functioning country. No place is perfect, PGH is charming, but alot has changed in 9 years. I don’t think it’s worth dying on a marriage hill over. My EU spouse also won’t return to the US, i actually have apart of my heart in Pittsburgh, but while I’m selling brick hills Norman Rockwell, and all my spouse sees is racial disparity, rust, and plastic bag/bottle shrapnel lining the roadside-guns, god, and glory bill boards on the highway, and a culture where fear and numbers override taste and morals. All with the upside of higher wages from at will employers & an accident or illness away from potential medical bankruptcy. Finally, we don’t have kids-but id consider where i want the growing up carefully as well.
MissGoldie71@reddit
Stay where you are for now. It’s not going well here and it’s going to get worse before it gets better. You would regret it. Don’t make enormous life decisions based on nostalgia for a place that has changed significantly. Healthcare here is shoddy, non-existent for many. Everything is enormously expensive. People who once seemed nice (on both sides) have lost their minds. Your daughter would not be safe from predators here. They’re running the show these days. Gas is ridiculous, so you’d probably be stuck at home constantly. We don’t have the supportive infrastructure Europe has and the guvmnt doesn’t care. Your husband probably sees this and knows that it’s going to take decades for the US to recover. He’s going to catch flack for being an immigrant. He doesn’t want to deal with that. I get it. We’re getting in to skirmishes right & left. We don’t have the welcoming allies we used to. It’s just going to get worse. Those Mayberry-esque nostalgic thoughts will bite you in the behind. Process them and let them go. Understand that people are desperately trying to LEAVE here because things are getting worse. Get serious with yourself and stay where you are for the time being. Unless you’re $$, have the right melanin tone, and are okay with what is happening here…then you can just disregard this advice.
anjaliv@reddit
Is there a third country you can agree to move to? Seems like the best option. USA wasn’t what it was 9 years ago and especially not with nostalgia
Automatic_Yam_4168@reddit
Nevermind all of the pros to staying in Germany and the cons of moving to the U.S., are you asking for advice on getting your husband on board with moving back? Because it sounds like he’s dead set against it. In which case, you may be stuck there for the next 17 years. I don’t see a way in which split custody is going to work with you two on different continents and I doubt either of you is willing to give her up completely.
My advice as a parent is stay there. Think about your daughter before yourself. She is much much better off growing up in Germany.
notthegoatseguy@reddit
How far away from you on citizenship?
Is there any negotiation on either side with the rest of EU/EEA?
Vivid-Teacher4189@reddit
If OP is married to a German citizen she was eligible for German citizenship 6 years ago. Especially easier now since Germany allowed dual citizenship since 2024. Depends in which city she lives in, it could take a couple of months to a couple of years to get it if she hasn’t already done so.
HVP2019@reddit
You feel privileged to get German benefits but you learned to realize that those can’t replace home.
Maybe your husband always knew or maybe he learned from your experience that nothing can replace home. Also when he will move to US he will not get benefits/“privileges” like less guns or universal healthcare, the way you did.
You had made un uniformed decision and it took you 9 years to realize this. You can’t expect from your husband to follow your example of making an uninformed decision.
I also move abroad to be with my current partner. I did this for my happiness, not for his. And now I live with consequences of mine decisions. Overall I am happy with my life even though my husband never had to live as an immigrant. I am from Europe originally. My partner is an American.
Tardislass@reddit
I honestly understand and talking to Germans the same social and economic problems are in both countries. Not to mention the rise of AfD.
Is there marriage counseling services in Germany? Can you convince your husband to go and try to find a solution.
Livid_Importance_453@reddit
This isn't just a city move, it's a family/legal setup. Sort custody, school, healthcare, work, and what's negotiable with your husband. borderpilot can help compare options.